Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: SBMiniaturesGuy on December 13, 2011, 07:22:38 PM
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Ok, this is a bit of a rant -- I friend of mine wants to do PTO, and I have a ton of 28mm TAG Japanese that I got painted on eBay, but I didn't have any USMC painted up. So he can't get his USMC done in time, and I haul out the Warlord-BAM USMC figures I bought some time ago and go to work.
Holy carp!
1. Packing sucks: A platoon in a box, with no foam padding of any kind so the figures are jumbled up and barrels are bent, etc. Lost a bunch of barrel tips, rifle grenades snapped off and such.
2. Poses have too many kneeling figures: Ok, some of the poses are nice and dynamic, yelling, running, etc., kind of Sgt Rock-like -- but HALF the figures are kneeling! What the heck?!? It's ok if SOME of the figures are kneeling to add some flavor to the unit, but HALF of the figures in the box!?!? I'm gonna have my little lead soldiers storm Tarawa on their knees?
3. Too much Flash: Then I start cleaning flash, and there's a TON of flash -- flash on the feet and toes, flash on the gun barrels, on the canteens, on the "Separate head" helmets, on the sides and bottom of the base, odd chunks here and there I have to carve off with care because the figures are also BRITTLE as hell!!
4. I hate Separate Heads: You have to cut each head off a sprue, clean the flash off of them and then glue them onto the torsos. Yikes, extra work! And a couple super-dynamic poses have separate *arms* as well as a separate head. What a pain, more glue and glue fumes.
Overall, I'm not impressed and wouldn't buy these again. The old BAM Soviets that make up most of my collection are much better than these in terms of quality and ease of painting. Can anybody recommend 28mm USMC figures with better quality if I want to expand my collection? The TAG Japanese I have are good, what about their USMC? How are Brigade Games' USMC figures? Other manufacturers? Thanks!
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Yea the Warlord stuff seems to be kinda hit or miss sometimes. While I don't have any myself but I've heard good things about The Assault Group (http://www.theassaultgroup.co.uk/store/home.php?cat=17).
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Have to agree re: TAG, Pete has some nice sculpts and the quality of his in house casting is top notch.
The Commander
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Cool, thanks, I'll look at TAG's stuff.
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I'm sorry to read you were disappointed with the Warlords USMC. I find them very good with loads of charm, however the packaging is a concern. I would contact Paul at Warlords and let him know. I know from past experiences that this has occurred, but once informed, Paul has spoken to the orders department. The extra flash does require a liitle effort to remove and the figure-heads is a good idea. It allows for folks who wish to have variation in their miniatures the ability to do so without resorting to the exacto blade. Not everyone is confident with conversion work. The figure-head system is thumbs-up in my view. Warlords USMC box set was their initial release. They always have some sort of theme and I guess in this case was hitting hitting the beach so yes I suppose a few more kneeling miniatures would be found. I could be off target, however we all have our own opinions on miniatures and how we received them.
The Assault Group USMC are very nice and Richard has designed some lovely miniatures that will look right alongside the Warlords USMC.
The Brigade Games/Company B PacWar USMC are very good. Loads of charm and character and fit nicely alongside the two former companies. I've them all and they look good together.
You can have all the variation you need within the three companies and have a wonderful looking collection ready to sort out the Japanese.
I hope this message has assisted you. You can find some of my USMC within the board. Not many, but you get the idea. My focus is on the Solomon islands and not the later South-Pacific, however I'm sure that will follow.
Cheers,
Helen
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Hi Helen,
I was frankly surprised at the amount of clean up and fiddling I had to do with the USMC figures, since my experience with the Soviet figures was quite different. To each his own on heads, I suppose, I would find it easier to chop and pin a couple of heads if I wanted to customize them than glue dozens of little heads onto my figures. And the kneeling thing I didn't notice until I started basing them and said, "Huh...that's odd...why are so many figures in a kneeling pose??" Just looks weird to me to have half the figures kneeling. Anyways, I'll try a few packs from TAG and Brigade to see how they look next to the Warlord stuff.
Best,
-John-
I'm sorry to read you were disappointed with the Warlords USMC. I find them very good with loads of charm, however the packaging is a concern. I would contact Paul at Warlords and let him know. I know from past experiences that this has occurred, but once informed, Paul has spoken to the orders department. The extra flash does require a liitle effort to remove and the figure-heads is a good idea. It allows for folks who wish to have variation in their miniatures the ability to do so without resorting to the exacto blade. Not everyone is confident with conversion work. The figure-head system is thumbs-up in my view. Warlords USMC box set was their initial release. They always have some sort of theme and I guess in this case was hitting hitting the beach so yes I suppose a few more kneeling miniatures would be found. I could be off target, however we all have our own opinions on miniatures and how we received them.
The Assault Group USMC are very nice and Richard has designed some lovely miniatures that will look right alongside the Warlords USMC.
The Brigade Games/Company B PacWar USMC are very good. Loads of charm and character and fit nicely alongside the two former companies. I've them all and they look good together.
You can have all the variation you need within the three companies and have a wonderful looking collection ready to sort out the Japanese.
I hope this message has assisted you. You can find some of my USMC within the board. Not many, but you get the idea. My focus is on the Solomon islands and not the later South-Pacific, however I'm sure that will follow.
Cheers,
Helen
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I am going to chime in here and second my disappointment with the casting quality on the USMC box. I have almost every figure made by Bolt Action before they were acquired by Warlord, and the casting quality was always quite good and clean. My first Bolt Action purchase ever with the new Warlord Bolt Action range is the USMC box, and the casting quality is horrible: flash everywhere in the worst places (e.g., across the face), prolific mold lines, big spurs on the bottom of the bases, etc. This is a real disappointment--although I do like the figs. Considering the top notch quality of the competitors for 28mm Pac War figs, Warlord needs to do a better job with the casting.
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Thanks for your responses about Warlord. Please keep banging away to Warlords about their casting issue and hopefully you will see a positive outcome.
Cheers,
Helen
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I am biased becuse I participated heavily in the development of the Brigade Games PacWar line. The sculpting for the USMC and the Japanese was done by Paul Hicks who needs no introduction. The line is the most complete by far. The packs are set up to allow building platoons over the various changes in TOE with maximum variation, minimum duplication, and little waste. Mike Broadbent sculpted the Aussie forces for PacWar with the same eye for pack makeup.
In addition to the standard platoon the PacWar lines includes a good number of specialty troops. USMC engineers, Raiders; Japanese AFV assault troops, war weary jungle troops and even troops on elephants. The Japanese, USMC and Aussie lines include a full range of support weapons and crewed artilley.
The PacWar figure range is supported by Company B producing a wide range of Japanese, USMC, and Commonwealth vehicles and vehicle crews.
Sorry for the passion
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No worries, thanks for the info on the extent of the product line. Raiders would be cool to have, plus some coast watcher and melanesian guide types.
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Here is the link to the Brigade Games/CompanyB range which is quite comprehensive.
http://www.brigadegames.com/Pacific-War--WW2_c_30.html
Additionally, here is the link to the CompanyB vehicles for Pacific War:
http://www.brigadegames.com/WW2--Pacific-War-Vehicles_c_123.html
Enjoy
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forgot to add - we have a sale ongoing that ends tomorrow -
10% off items not already on sale, in deals or special offers.
Use coupon XMAS and apply it to your order on checkout.
www.brigadegames.com
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In addition to the standard platoon the PacWar lines includes a good number of specialty troops. Japanese AFV assault troops??????
That's new! Something your not telling us Bruce? Do you mean anti-tank troops?
Hope you are enjoying sand, surf and water.
Helen
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While I do like BAM minis, some of the later releases (after being acquired by Warlord) also have a strange "ring/ vibe" for me.
I do not know where to put it, maybe the poses and faces are now too much Comic style...
As far as the Warlord USMC Box is concerned, I recently bought it and was delighted, some flash but not more than usual in the industry. The poses are unique and just love the separate head and equipment options. Very easy to build hardened Raiders out of the box!
I have painted one already (will show him this weekend).
I was always very interested in the Brigade PacWar line, the prohibiting US/EU custom regulations have always stopped me to get into it big time.
I have the Japanese Anti-Tank/Demolition Team from the Brigade range and liked them the most from all the Japanese lines (West Wind, TAG; haven't seen the recent Warlord release - but I do not like them for the same reasons from the pics I saw) I have or saw.
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Guess I'll put my coin in the bag too: I think it's a good thing that Warlord is growing to be one of the bigger producers of miniatures and I'm quite happy with the fact that they have an enormous range available (and the swapable heads is very good idea), but we should get a good standard quality in place and that is definitely NOT the case.
I collect US Airborne and got me some from Artizan, some from Offensive and some from Warlord. All 3 are very nicely detailed, where Warlord is the most completely detailed in my opinion. But I do have to agree with the others that the models are very poorly packed which results in alot of crooked weapon barrels. Same squad (of 12 minis, of which 2 are a 30. cal team), happened to contain 5 (!) times the same model and another 3 times. I was dissappointed but I mix them in various squads, so I can live with it, but it is a pity. Same for my opponent. He got that trooper firing a Panzerfaust. The thing was bent and twisted in all kinds of ways... When comparing casting, Warlord is by far the worst. Artizan and offensive are both really good. Hardly any cleaning up or mold lines.
On another positive note: The Sherman I got from them was however very well and cleanly cast. Only the bottom side had some small bubbles, but hey, nobody sees that. Thing that annoys me the most however, is that I have E-mailed Warlord twice with various questions, never getting any reply. One of those questions was the possiblity (which they offered!) to pre-order some stuff to collect from a fair in Antwerp.
So for me it is simple: I'll order with Artizan (no remarks there) or Offensive (which offer an absolutely outstanding service! And have mixed squads so you don't have doubles) and for the vehicles I intend to buy them from Die Waffenkammer. I already contacted Jtrnka here with a question and got an answer straight away (thanks man!). Just maybe I'd order a vehicle from Warlord, but that will depend solely on the fact wether I can find it somewhere else or not.
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I'm not a big PTO collector but my collection is made up of the PacWar/Brigade and TAG ranges. Both are excellent.
Don't have any of the new BAM stuff so I can't comment, I have a large collection of the early BAM ETO figures by Paul Hicks and they are still my favourites for that range, most of my stuff is Artizan and they are excellent.
Looking forward to your order Kane. If you like Artizan you'll like what's on the horizon from Die Waffenkammer. :)
Cheers.
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I was always very interested in the Brigade PacWar line, the prohibiting US/EU custom regulations have always stopped me to get into it big time.
We ship dozens of boxes overseas every week. In almost 12 years of business we have only been told of 1 issue with customs and that was over 5 years ago (and the order was enormous and heavy.)
I am sure if customs fees were an issue we would have had comments sent our way (as no one is shy these days) and seen a decline in business from overseas but that is certainly not the case.
Contact me via my contact page, email or IM here if any of you would like to discuss.
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We ship dozens of boxes overseas every week. In almost 12 years of business we have only been told of 1 issue with customs and that was over 5 years ago (and the order was enormous and heavy.)
I am sure if customs fees were an issue we would have had comments sent our way (as no one is shy these days) and seen a decline in business from overseas but that is certainly not the case.
Contact me via my contact page, email or IM here if any of you would like to discuss.
Please do not get me wrong, orders from you went thru, no problem.
The problem is the German customs /tax. Everything about 20,00 EUR value gets taxed.
:-[
15% and on top again 19% Sales tax.
:( :(
That is the reason why I only order once in a while some small stuff...
;)
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While I do like BAM minis, some of the later releases (after being acquired by Warlord) also have a strange "ring/ vibe" for me.
I do not know where to put it, maybe the poses and faces are now too much Comic style...
As far as the Warlord USMC Box is concerned, I recently bought it and was delighted, some flash but not more than usual in the industry. The poses are unique and just love the separate head and equipment options. Very easy to build hardened Raiders out of the box!
I have painted one already (will show him this weekend).
I was always very interested in the Brigade PacWar line, the prohibiting US/EU custom regulations have always stopped me to get into it big time.
I have the Japanese Anti-Tank/Demolition Team from the Brigade range and liked them the most from all the Japanese lines (West Wind, TAG; haven't seen the recent Warlord release - but I do not like them for the same reasons from the pics I saw) I have or saw.
I like the style quite a bit too--very Sergeant Rock looking. I don't see how you can do Raiders "out of the box" when the box contains, what, 2 SMGs and 1BAR? A Raider force would have a much higher proportion of SMGs than that. In fact, you can't even do 1 Late War Marine squad out of the box as there are only 2 BARs, while the standard Late War squad comp would typically be 3 fire-teams with 1 BAR each (at least on paper.)
(See Brigade Games Raider pack for what a Raider squad should look like in terms of composition.)
Don't get me wrong--I love having an abundance of choices and really like the BAM sculpts; I just really miss the clean castings as prepping minis is one of my least favorite things. I also disagree that the casting flaws are about average for 28mm figs. But that's just my opinion of course.
Steve
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I like the style quite a bit too--very Sergeant Rock looking. I don't see how you can do Raiders "out of the box" when the box contains, what, 2 SMGs and 1BAR? A Raider force would have a much higher proportion of SMGs than that.
I was talking about the look, not the equipped weapons...
;)
I love having an abundance of choices and really like the BAM sculpts; I just really miss the clean castings as prepping minis is one of my least favorite things. I also disagree that the casting flaws are about average for 28mm figs.
Well - my box was OK...
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Say, speaking of Raiders -- what's the platoon organization for a USMC raider unit? I'd like to do a unit based on the 1st Raider Battalion, which saw action at Tulagi, Gudalcanal and New Georgia.
Cheers,
-John-
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Please do not get me wrong, orders from you went thru, no problem.
The problem is the German customs /tax. Everything about 20,00 EUR value gets taxed.
:-[
15% and on top again 19% Sales tax.
:( :(
That is the reason why I only order once in a while some small stuff...
;)
You always buy them via an Europe stockist.
I believe both Northstar and Wargames Command Post carry Brigades PTO stuff in the UK - of course the lack of import duty to Germany will only apply until our seemly inevitable (and IMHO ill judged!) exit from the EU! lol
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Raiders would be cool to have, plus some coast watcher and melanesian guide types.
The Diggers in the Pacific collection within the Brigade PacWar line includes two coast watchers, a pack of natives with a traditional weapons, a pack with rifles, a pack with smgs, a pack of strecher bearers and a pack carrying baggage. If you want to use them in Burma theres a native on an elephant.
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That's new! Something your not telling us Bruce? Do you mean anti-tank troops?
Hope you are enjoying sand, surf and water.
Helen
Sorry Helen, I do mean the six pack of Anti tank fellows.
Sun is good, sand is good, substututung vodka for water.
Bruce
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Say, speaking of Raiders -- what's the platoon organization for a USMC raider unit? I'd like to do a unit based on the 1st Raider Battalion, which saw action at Tulagi, Gudalcanal and New Georgia.
Cheers,
-John-
There were several organisational changes during this period. The Osprey book on the Raiders provides great detail on the org.
My Raiders go as far as Bougainville for their actions.
Let me know what you are after and hopefully we can go from there.
Cheers,
Helen
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Sorry Helen, I do mean the six pack of Anti tank fellows.
Sun is good, sand is good, substututung vodka for water.
Bruce
Thanks Bruce, good to know "Surfs-Up."
Helen
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Hi Helen,
I'm looking primarily at Tulagi and Guadalcanal.
Thanks!
-John-
There were several organisational changes during this period. The Osprey book on the Raiders provides great detail on the org.
My Raiders go as far as Bougainville for their actions.
Let me know what you are after and hopefully we can go from there.
Cheers,
Helen
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You always buy them via an Europe stockist.
I believe both Northstar and Wargames Command Post carry Brigades PTO stuff in the UK - of course the lack of import duty to Germany will only apply until our seemly inevitable (and IMHO ill judged!) exit from the EU! lol
Hmm, have to hurry up then...
lol ;)
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Bog Standard TOE Quite a number of exceptions existed
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Thanks Bruce.
Cheers,
Helen
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Thanks, I also found a resource in my pile o' game stuff that puts the 1st Raider Battalion platoon organization in 1942-1943 as:
Platoon HQ
-Lt
-2x NCO
-2x Runners
-1x Radioman
-1x Medic
-1x Sniper [not always present]
3x Rifle Squads, each broken into two fire teams centered around a BAR
-Snr NCO w/ SMG
-NCO w/SMG
-2x BAR gunners
-2x Assistant BAR gunners
-5x Riflemen [Mostly M1 Garand, but may also include mix of SMG, Shotgun, Carbine]
-1x Rifleman with Rifle Grenades
A platoon may have supporting Company assets from the Company LMG platoon, Mortar platoon, etc. -- such as a .30cal LMG, 60mm mortar, etc., depending on their mission.
Cheers!
-John-
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Here's a guide from GHQ:
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pdf/toe3-usarmymarineinfantrybattalions.pdf
Says the USMC used the "Organization D" TOE for a platoon at Tulagi/Guadalcanal which had 42 men:
Platoon HQ:
-LT (M1 carbine)
-Snr NCO (M1 carbine)
-NCO (BAR)
-3x Signalmen/Runners (Springfield rifles)
-1x "Supply" carrier (Springfield rifle)
3x Rifle squads each with:
-NCO (Riesling SMG)
-1x BAR
-5x Riflemen (Springfield rifles)
-1x Grenadier Rifleman (with Springfield rifle)
1x Automatic Rifle Squad:
-NCO (Riesling SMG)
-2x BAR
-5x Riflemen (Springfield rifles)
Springfield rifles? Riesling SMGs? Yikes!!
Best,
-John-
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Here's a guide from GHQ:
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pdf/toe3-usarmymarineinfantrybattalions.pdf
Says the USMC used the "Organization D" TOE for a platoon at Tulagi/Guadalcanal which had 42 men:
Platoon HQ:
-LT (M1 carbine)
-Snr NCO (M1 carbine)
-NCO (BAR)
-3x Signalmen/Runners (Springfield rifles)
-1x "Supply" carrier (Springfield rifle)
3x Rifle squads each with:
-NCO (Riesling SMG)
-1x BAR
-5x Riflemen (Springfield rifles)
-1x Grenadier Rifleman (with Springfield rifle)
1x Automatic Rifle Squad:
-NCO (Riesling SMG)
-2x BAR
-5x Riflemen (Springfield rifles)
Springfield rifles? Riesling SMGs? Yikes!!
Best,
-John-
Next year you may see some new releases that may have some Raider weapons included.
Cheers,
Helen
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While we're on the subject of 28mm Marines, does anyone have an opinion on the Marines from West Wind under their WWII range? They don't show up too well in the pictures on the site.
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Raider TO&E from Bayonet Strength
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/UnitedStates/Marine/RaiderParaMarine/marine_raider_battalion.htm
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While we're on the subject of 28mm Marines, does anyone have an opinion on the Marines from West Wind under their WWII range? They don't show up too well in the pictures on the site.
I don't have any WW Marines but some Japanese which I like a lot.
(http://www.adpublishing.de/assets/images/Japan_Sniper.jpg)
I presume the Marines are similar, a bit cartoonish but IMO OK.
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I love the Westwind Marines. You just have to buy all the packs and take out the 2-3 awkward poses but once that is done they are a very good looking group of figs. That catch the feel of hard looking Marines. IMO they are probably the most characterful line on the market. To give some variety I added some US Bars to my force just greenstuffed over the gaiters. I also have a Battle Honors Stuart. You got to have one of those. I will go downstairs and take some pictures here in a bit. A picture is worth a thousand words. =)
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I presume the Marines are similar, a bit cartoonish but IMO OK.
They look quite nice! Definitely a cartoonish style, but I like it.
Thanks for sharing the picture, you've done really nice job on the painting.
I love the Westwind Marines. You just have to buy all the packs and take out the 2-3 awkward poses but once that is done they are a very good looking group of figs. That catch the feel of hard looking Marines. IMO they are probably the most characterful line on the market. To give some variety I added some US Bars to my force just greenstuffed over the gaiters. I also have a Battle Honors Stuart. You got to have one of those. I will go downstairs and take some pictures here in a bit. A picture is worth a thousand words. =)
Hello!
Thanks for your response, I'm glad to get a hear account of figures and hear they are indeed nice figures, for some reason I just wanted to like them! lol
Even taking a few poses out they work out at a reasonable price.
That's settled then, I'll definitely pick up some of West Wind's Marines in the new year!
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Westwind Marines are indeed full of character - very expressive & even cartoonish. My complaint is that the equipment (canteens, pouches, belts) is undersized and doesn't match well with other makers like Brigade Games.
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Here are painted westwind USMC and Battle Honors Stuart as promised. Like I said previously I just love these figures. I bought all the packs then took out about 8 figures that I just didn't like. But what I have here are great characterful figures. That really give the feel of tired haggard veteran cocky Marines. This is force is one of the treasures of my collection.
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4276_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4277_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4278_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4279_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4280_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4281_IMG.jpg)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/airbornegrove26/142-4275_IMG.jpg)
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Nice! What did you use for the base color of the uniforms?
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Next year you may see some new releases that may have some Raider weapons included.
Cheers,
Helen
How about some Marines with Johnson or Reising guns?
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Thanks for posting those photos, airbornegrove!
They are some really nice figures and you've gone a great job painting them.
It's not often you see a Stuart to go with 28mm figures too, a sadly neglected tank in all scales.
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How about some Marines with Johnson or Reising guns?
Yes John, that would be the case if there is any new releases :-)
Cheers,
Helen
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Thanks Hildred! The Stuart is a fun little tank to have. It looks great on the tabletop, and doesn't dominate a game like a Sherman could. However 37mm canister rounds at pointblank are nasty anyway you look at it. =)
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Company B has a ton of PTO vehicles for US and Japan, need to get some one of these days -- a couple of LVTs and Stuarts would be fun, as well as some Japanese tanks.
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Love your Marines.
I mix most companies figures.
I do have have a large mumber of Westwind Marines.
My really only complaint is I think the helmets are not quite right.
But that had not stopped me from painting them.
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Thanks for posting those photos, airbornegrove!
They are some really nice figures and you've gone a great job painting them.
It's not often you see a Stuart to go with 28mm figures too, a sadly neglected tank in all scales.
Then somehow you missed Company B 1/56 Stuarts
M3 Stuart early turret
M3 Stuart rolled turret
M3 Stuart Australian turret and Mods
M3 Stuart Honey
M3 Satan
M3A1 Stuart
M5 Stuart
M5A1 Stuart
M8 HMC
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I think the Company B ones are much nicer from pics I have seen.
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Here's are some new vehicle "posters" from the Company B site:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/EasyEight_photos/US.jpg)
US Vehicles
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj233/EasyEight_photos/japan202.jpg)
Japanese Vehicles
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Just an update in the poster that the Japanese 47 mm anti-tank gun is infact a 37 mm anti-tank gun or rapid fire gun as I like to put it!
The mountain gun is in fact a Type 92 70 mm Battalion Gun or Infantry Gun.
The Type 41 75 mm Mountain Gun is what we need.
Cheers,
Helen
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All of Co.B's vehicles are excellent.
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Interesting discussion. I laid in a slew of TAG's Marines some... lordy, ten years ago or so. It may sound odd, considering it's the middle of the desert, but this is a Marine town even more than an Army one. Pete sent me a set of TAG's Iwo Jima flag party diorama when it was released, and I painted it for display in the base HQ building here.
Our Masonic lodge had a good many fellows--Navy and Marine--who went ashore in the Pacific landings. When I showed the TAG figures around, they opined that those captured the look and feel of their own experiences very well. (That's why I recommended them to you, Helen...)
I don't have much use for cartoonish 28mm WWII figures (no names). I'd be embarrassed to show some of those to the vets. I've never seen Brigade's in hand, though; may have to give them a try someday.
Allen
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My marines come from Brigade, Artizan and TAG, all of which are excellent. If I had to pick a favorite I'd give the edge to TAG. Their marines look mean and display a "don't f*** with me" attitude. Ok, that is very subjective, I know. ::)
I do know my Brigade and BAM Japanese are terrified of them! At least that is how they have been behaving on the war gaming table. :)
Oh dear, am I anthropomorphizing again?