Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: abikapi2 on January 10, 2012, 03:30:44 PM
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Hi,
I'm interested to know several opinions, expecially if someone ha played more than one system, about ruleset that are used for this period.
Thank You :)
Stefano
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I guess you won't be surprised that you aren't the first to ask (nor the last, I bet). If we get enough input here I make this a sticky topic.
There is no 'best set'. Much depends on the number of miniatures you want to use, the style of game you prefer and last but not least the fact that some rulesets are rather good to play, but impossible to understand without help. Don't expect a load of rules with army lists, most have some generic entries for the early 20th century and only very few have lists for BoB, and some of these are pure Fantasy.
Here are the rules I know (more or less):
Contemptible little Armies (CLA). The CLA supplement Back of Beyond gave the setting it's name. Never played the rules, barely understood them. The Army lists in the BoB-supplement are pulp-sytle fantasy, but if you like this approach you'll find them useful for other rules, too.
Price of Glory (PoG) - the WW1-Version of Disposable Heroes. Good rules for 20-50 miniatures, though they suck when it comes to close combat (a problem with several systems). Shooting is deadly in the open (especially with HMG), so you need much terrain. Easy to learn, sadly there are only generic unit stats inside. using BoB as a guideline will help a lot to design your Armylists. I used to play this system until T&T arrived, but I think both are equally suited.
Triumph & Tragedy (T&T). The rules I use. You can use them with pulp-style heroes or without, both ways work well. It fills the same niche as PoG, with the same pros and cons. The main difference is the card-driven turn sequence, which gives it a slight edge about PoG.
Warhammer the Great War. 40K with both sides playing imperial guard infantry armies, which isn't bad at all. Strongly recommended for larger games. Again, no lists for BoB.
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'Setting the East Ablaze'. In house rules of The League of Extraordinary Kriegspielers. Pulpy, but written by very experienced historical wargames. Work for games of a few dozen figures to many hundreds. Also benefit from being free.
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I have a copy of Ignatieff's rules-read them but not tried them out yet. :-[ They certainly do have the right 'feel' to them. (the "Table of Terror" is pure genius!)
Have played several games using TFL's "Mud and Blood" with a few tweaks and had a great time with them. Not sure yet if how well they would work in the multi-sided games that Igntieff runs (and I dream about)
For me at least, its all about plot-a good plot makes the game in BOB-which reminds that Ignatieff really should do a scenario book and put his campaign system into writing ;)
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'Setting the East Ablaze'. In house rules of The League of Extraordinary Kriegspielers. Pulpy, but written by very experienced historical wargames. Work for games of a few dozen figures to many hundreds. Also benefit from being free.
Where can these rules be found?
Thanks!
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Where can these rules be found?
Thanks!
Pm me your email and I'll forward them to you.
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Pm me your email and I'll forward them to you.
Mind if I take a look at them as well?
email: adi_piecyk@hotmail.com
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Mind if I take a look at them as well?
email: adi_piecyk@hotmail.com
Of course. I'll email everyone when I get home this evening.
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World at war: Back of beyond
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I second using Mud & Blood. TFL also has another rules set for the immediate post WW1 era (Russian CW, German Spartakists & Freicorps, etc) called "Triumph of the Will"
Have also used Great War.
I found CLA & Price of Glory to be too bloody, but the CLA back of Beyond army lists are very useful.
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Ignatief rules seems very good for a demo game involving newcomers to the hobby. With experienced players, I prefer TRIUMPH OF THE WILL.
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Thank You to everybody for all Your replies.
I'll evaluate them carefully.
Stefano
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That's also interesting rules:
battle:
http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/redactions.html
campaign:
http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/beyond.html
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I'd love to see the rules as well!
e-mail: BuckerooSouthern@yahoo.com
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If it is not too much trouble I would welcome a peek at the rules too:
danderson1964@hotmail.com
Thanks in advance :)
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No problems chaps. Will sort out emails over the next couple of days.
S
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while you are busy ... bolleke13@yahoo.com
thanks
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while you are busy ... bolleke13@yahoo.com
thanks
Will send in the next couple of days
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I've just ended the reading of the "Setting the East Ablaze".
A free set of rules with a "professional" level, very detailed 30 pages (image free, adding images You can double them).
Morale and Rally rules, Terror and prisoners.
A+++
Stefano
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Very kind indeed Stefano.
We have a slightly upgraded set ready if anyone is interested (for free)!
S
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Yes I would be interested in the upgraded set airbornegrove26@hotmail.com.
Thanks Ignatieff!
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Yes, me as well bolleke13@yahoo.com .
Thanks Ignatieff!
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Bear with me comrades. We are just refining the AFV breakdown rules. In addition to these being improved, we have removed the 'T' factor (training) as the 'class' factor supersedes this. We've also tidied up things like 'gone to ground' (now called 'suppressed'), have introduced light and heavy AA guns (the former is mounted MG's, the latter mounted field guns) and few other tidied up points.
I will email all of ou as soon as they are ready
Cheers
Steve
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Sounds good if I'm not to late, is it possible to email them also to
wargamenewsandterrain@hotmail.be :D
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Sounds good if I'm not to late, is it possible to email them also to
wargamenewsandterrain@hotmail.be :D
Give me a couple of days to sort out the details.
S
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Hi Ignatieff,
Thank You for the offer, when You have time.
I have the "Gone to the ground" version.
I've heard also of a campaign system, it's only noise, or it's true?
Stefano
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Hi,
I also read on the rules of an "Event deck" and a "Chance Deck", but I'm not able to find the list of the cards involved and the relative rules.
Maybe for a future expansion?
Thank You for Your Job
Stefano
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Hi,
I also read on the rules of an "Event deck" and a "Chance Deck", but I'm not able to find the list of the cards involved and the relative rules.
Maybe for a future expansion?
Thank You for Your Job
Stefano
Hi Stefano
'Event' and 'chance' cards are only limited by your imagination and the scenario. However you are right, a few examples would not go amiss. Thanks again!
Steve
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Steve,
When you have a spare moment could you email me the updated rules and any examples that you are showing for cards? Many thanks.
Lon
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Steve,
When you have a spare moment could you email me the updated rules and any examples that you are showing for cards? Many thanks.
Lon
Will do Lon. I am travelling a lot at the moment, so it will probably be next week by the time I get my acto together.
Regards
Steve
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PM with e-mail address sent!
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Polite PM with email address sent.
T Y I A
Mark
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For a good rules review of WWI and especially Interwar rules see http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/gaming/rules/rules.html
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To be honest rules are and always will be a subject of debate whatever period you dabble in.
I downloaded the Pulp Miniatures rules by Bob Murch and after a few games plays amended them, adding bits and suggestions from the Back of Beyond army lists. It all depends what you want from a game...mine is to have a few beers with my mates and a laugh, in some way the social interaction far outweighs the 'accuracy' of a 30 page set of rules and i've had more fun with a set scribbled down on 2 sheets of A4 than any commercial set...but then we are all different and it would be a boring hobby if we were all the same!
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I played "Setting The East Ablaze" at the Warlord open day and now I'm hooked,going to use some kind of WW1 Germans most prob Renegade Minis as a base. Definitely getting some of the Copplestone stuff to. Just we're can I get a German WW1 tank :(
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Just tried to download the free rule set and my stupid iPad won't let me >:(
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What I'm after is a simple context/campaign system which could be used to provide the background for small skirmish games with a handful of figures, not battles. Usually we would use the Narrative Campaign approach, with linked games generating situations for the next game, but I know less about the period than I do about our other similar ventures (Old West and Mountain Men) so feel less confident to just go with it.
Any ideas? I have been reading up on the whole subject, form Russian Revolution and Civil War to the Great Game and Chinese Revolution, Warlords etc. Plenty happening, to put it mildly!
Any fiction recommendations? I tried a couple and was disappointed - not enough fighting! ;)
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Any fiction recommendations? I tried a couple and was disappointed - not enough fighting! ;)
For what it's worth, I've always found the "truth" for this period to be stranger than anything a novelist could come up with. lol But if it's fiction you are after, Ignatieff's AAR's on this forum contain a wealth of plot lines and suggestions. Lord knows I've "adapted" (OK, "Stolen" lol) more than 1 or 2
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I can suggest a few stories from the Soviet adventure films about the Civil War. Good stuff for scripting games:
- White Sun of the Desert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sun_of_the_Desert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yia2azQd4GY&feature=player_embedded
- Officers and Gentlemen: To Save the Emporer
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1126391/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSL9r8xdHcw
- GOLDEN TRAIN
In 1919. In Siberia there is a civil war. Taking advantage a complete mess, Admiral Kolchak wants take abroad gold reserves of Russia. At the last moment hear about this the Bolsheviks. They decide to intercept the train, but do not enough time As follows prepare the operation ... But still there is a chance. Save the situation can girl Nadia in which the is passionately in love trainmaster ... Several kilometers of railway track to the state border are becoming battlefield between the white and red...
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%8D%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVdswrWbSX0
- Miles of Fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_of_Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kiml-N0ExU
- HOSTAGE
In order to prevent an epidemic of smallpox black - Boev police officer should deliver the caravan with the vaccine in a remote area of Tajikistan. Basmachi not immediately resolved to attack the caravan because being held hostage by the Red Army soldiers leader of the gang, to be exact - his double, Gado.
http://filmix.net/otechestvennye/65848-na-perevale-ne-strelyat-1983.html
Unfortunately, not all films have English subtitles.
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The truth is bloody marvellous I agree...but it isn't always 'pulpy' enough for a game-but then massage it of course.
The film idea is an excellent one-I have an armoured rail cruiser WIP (bottom half of a 1/18th scale submarine - don't ask!) and an armoured train already so the Gold Train is a must, and was already planning a Csave The Csar! game for Derby Worlds and so I will have to watch Officers & Gentlemen too.
Many thanks to all responders to my question.
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What are the best books for images (I'm a painter more than gamer)?
Is there a soft-cover version of World at war: Back of beyond? I can only seem to find .pdf versions.
Thanks.
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Which army are you interested in?
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I literally just played a trimmed down version of Osprey's A World Aflame at a convention on Friday.
I liked them so much I picked them up.
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Just picked those up myself! Got a good deal with Frostgrave, so I couldnt resist!!
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Talking "back" to the rules what about Too Fat Lardies "Triumph of the Will" - see http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=53
I am still keen to try these...
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I am surprised no one has mentioned the classic The Sword and the Flame, along with the variant The Sword to Adventure, which covers the small wars of 1908-1931 (especially the North-West Frontier). I am going to use it for Central Asia vs. Russia for The Great Game skirmishes.
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Where can you get a copy of setting the east ablaze?
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Caliver books sell them, also through Amazon
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I agree that The Sword and the Flame variant "The Sword to Adventure" is the set I like the most. Easy to use and it is the rules that I grew up with on the Northwest Frontier.
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I can strongly recommend Pulp Alley. We use it for multiple periods and it never disappoints. These rules have reignited my love of miniatures gaming.
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I'm using the first edition of StEA and in the points section (appendix one) "modern tactical training" costs + 1 point BUT I can find no other reference to it, ( or advantage to having it) in the rules. Have I missed something ?
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Searching for the original Back of Beyond on BoardGameGeek, I stumbled across three apparently-obscure sets sharing variants of the title:
Interesting Times in the Back of Beyond (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/301025/interesting-times-back-beyond)
Back of Beyond Strange World (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/301024/back-beyond-strange-world)
Back of Beyond Skirmish Rules (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/319457/back-beyond-skirmish-rules)
Thought I'd ask if anyone here knows anything about any of them? :)
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I'll take that as a 'no' :)
Returning to games people here have heard of, do I gather that both CLA and StEA are meant for relatively large numbers of figures, like dozens or hundreds?
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I think 30+ per side seems reasonable? I believe Ignatieff has mentioned having hundreds per side with StEA. Are you looking for smaller skirmish-y type rules?
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I think 30+ per side seems reasonable? I believe Ignatieff has mentioned having hundreds per side with StEA. Are you looking for smaller skirmish-y type rules?
Thanks for the reply :)
Yes, I'm looking for low figure counts. I've got way too projects ongoing already, so any foray into BoB better be modest, at least initially. 30 figures a side would be around the upper limit.
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I'm more of a Back of Beyond reader than gamer right now, but I imagine Setting the East Ablaze could work for that.
If you're a Facebook person, join the group in my signature and ask - there's a bit more activity there than on here!
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I'm more of a Back of Beyond reader than gamer right now, but I imagine Setting the East Ablaze could work for that.
If you're a Facebook person, join the group in my signature and ask - there's a bit more activity there than on here!
Thanks again. I think I'm actually already a member of that fb group, but didn't think to ask there.
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Hi Andreas,
You might be better posting this as a new question as I missed it several times up here in the stickies.
CLA is the original Back of Beyond rule set and StEA is probably the obvious first look for the period currently. I've not played CLA but I think it is the same as StEA and uses 10+ figure units. So 30 a side is going to be a small game without much flexibility. I expect you could reduce the the figure count easily enough though, perhaps by only taking off figures after multiple hits.
Perhaps a better option for small skirmish games is Fistful of Lead. The basic rules are 1 for 1, so you're gang is only five or six figures but the neat turn sequence using playing cards lets multiple players each have a gang whether allied or in opposition. These rules were originally designed for Wild West but they have expanded and the core mechanics are a lot of fun and work with just about anything you can think of. Perfect for Ostern scenarios obviously but I've seen them used for undersea divers, WW2, Horse and Musket and fantasy to name a few. We played Werewolves vs British army in a homage to the film Dog Soldiers and it worked great, even if my poor squaddies were eaten just before dawn. :D
try these links for FFOL
https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/ (https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/)
https://oshiromodels.wixsite.com/oshiromodelswebshop/rules (https://oshiromodels.wixsite.com/oshiromodelswebshop/rules)
If you want something a bit bigger FFOL has a bigger battles expansion that uses the core mechanics for units instead of individuals. We played that with 5 figure units.
You can see our Dog Soldiers and a FFOL:BB Russian Civil War games here
https://thebitsbox.blogspot.com/search/label/Fistful%20of%20Lead (https://thebitsbox.blogspot.com/search/label/Fistful%20of%20Lead)
Another option if you like the Lion Rampant series is the men who would be kings.
https://ospreypublishing.com/the-men-who-would-be-kings (https://ospreypublishing.com/the-men-who-would-be-kings)
The main rules are 12 man foot units and 8 man cavalry but they have a small skirmish variant in the main rules that uses half sized units. That will work for 30-ish figures a side. They are for Colonial era rather than RCW but can be converted.
There are other options, the Song of ... series and Pulp Alley spring to mind but above are the ones I've played.
Cheers,
Trev
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Thanks for the reply. Yes, maybe posting in this thread wasn't the best idea.
10-figure units don't sound like a good fit for the size I'm imagining, no, and I'm not big on fiddling with rules before I've played them as written. So CLA and StEA are perhaps someting to look at later, if I get bitten big time by the BOB bug.
Fistful of Lead sounds like something to look at.
I played Dragon Rampant once, seemed pretty neat, but some brief looking around the web suggest that even the skirmish version of The Men Who Would Be Kings easily runs well over 30 figures for low-quality forces.
I like SOBAH, so Flying Lead (the "shooty" version, for settings were firearms dominate close combat weapons) should be worth checking out.
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abikapi2
This is an easy one ...
Two words.... BOLT ACTION
It works very very well , in fact it is better at WW1/ Back of Beyond stuff , than WW2 ..imho.
Cheers