Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Kingscarbine on January 13, 2012, 10:41:13 AM
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Hi,
My good friend Carlos Marighela sent me some sample figures of these generic Portuguese infantrymen, about to be released by Eureka AUS. They are absolutely fantastic with great detail and clean. There will be more poses and support weapons (at least a MG42/59). If there's a market for these more can follow in the shape of Dragoons, Paras and Marines. Enjoy
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/157/12012012685.jpg)
(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8939/12012012684.jpg)
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I've been waiting to get a look at these for ages. They are just what I want! Who do I have to kill to get some? >:D
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Nobody, simply send an email to Nic at Eureka and request some. Not sure of the official release date but as ever you can usually buy them direct if you ask. The immensely talented Kosta Heristanidis apparently enjoyed the project so as Nuno says, if they sell perhaps we can convince him to make some more.
Good to see others share my enthusiam for the subject matter and of course the sculpts themselves. Anyone wants a list of available vehicle/ aircraft/ guns/ reference material to compliment the figures let me know and I'll post one. Nuno almost certainly has an even better set of sources than me, including first person testimony from his father.
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Moito brigado!
I hope Nic has some at CanCon this month. I think a little bit of a guide on how to use them i.e. uniform colours, eras of conflicts, who to fight against etc. is in order if it ain't too much trouble. Some reference pics... or if you have the raw material I'll offer to put it together on a couple of pages.
They look great. Kosta is a really talented and very nice chap, too.
Definitely want to pick up some of these!
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De nada, o prazer e meu!
Conflicts.
These are primarily intended for the Guerra do Ultramar, the colonial campains that raged in Angola, Guinea and Mozambique between the early 1960s and 1974/5. The Portuguese military fought a series of counterinsurgency operations against insurgent/national liberation forces in the three colonies. Their experience and tactical innovations were capitalised on later by the Rhodesians and South Africans, including the use of fireforce type reaction forces, airmobile envelopment and even horse mounted troops. The settings of these campaigns reflected the diverse nature of the terrain across Portugal's African territories. Steamy swamps in Guinea, thick bush to open savannah and arid scrub terrain.
Opponents.
The Portuguese faced a variety of opponents. In Guinea the principle opponent was the PAIGC, in Mozambique, FRELIMO and in Angola, the fractious combination of the MPLA, FNLA and UNITA. Eureka already produce suitable figures for all in their ZANLA range. Most of these groups were armed from the mid sixties on with Soviet and Chinese arms. By the early 1970s, in Guinea at least, this extended to light armour (albeit it never saw action) and 122mm rockets.
I'll touch on a painting guide when i dig out my paints tomorrow. The most accesible English language guide is the Osprey. The plates and uniform info is generally ok, much of the rest of it is a little vague and makes incorrect assumptions about organisation based on very limited, second hand sources.
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oh Fod*-se!
:-*
Now I'm going to have to spend money! don't you guys know Portugal is in a financial crisis?
excelent miniatures!
Carlos, I'll PM you for more info!
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Very nice - I'll be getting them at some stage :) These guys would also look good mixed in with the Mongrel Congo mercs, as part of a mercenary force.
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John Cann's "Counterinsurgency in Africa: The Portuguese way of war 1961-1974" and "Brown Water of Africa: Portuguese Riverine Warfare 1961-1974" are a must if you can find them.
I'm also involved in playtesting the next AA/FoF supplement "Bush Wars" that will cover the 1960-80s Congo, Portuguese Africa, Rhodesia, SADF Border/Bush Wars (Angola/Namibia) and Sierra Leon (Operation Barras?). There will be good information and scenarios for these figures.
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Very nice I built a skirmish force using the old HLBS 36mm figures back in the day they had a good few in the same dress. Long overdue chaps and wll done
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John Cann's "Counterinsurgency in Africa: The Portuguese way of war 1961-1974" and "Brown Water of Africa: Portuguese Riverine Warfare 1961-1974" are a must if you can find them.
I'm also involved in playtesting the next AA/FoF supplement "Bush Wars" that will cover the 1960-80s Congo, Portuguese Africa, Rhodesia, SADF Border/Bush Wars (Angola/Namibia) and Sierra Leon (Operation Barras?). There will be good information and scenarios for these figures.
The John Cann book is about to be reprinted in paperback, next month I believe, you can pre-order it at Amazon. IIRC they are asking $30 as opposed to the out of print hardback editions which go for $100 +. Best English language tome on the war.
There is a superb Portuguese site on the war, which with a web translator is accessible to all. Covers weapons, organisation history etc etc. You'll also find some excellent links to film footage of operations from the RTP TV archives.
http://www.guerracolonial.org/
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..............Anyone wants a list of available vehicle/ aircraft/ guns/ reference material to compliment the figures let me know and I'll post one......
Yes please - and approx dates of use of the equipment if you have them (For example the Osprey - not always the best source - mentions the use of Humber Mark IV armoured cars but I wonder how long they would have continued in use)
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Humber/ GMC Fox
The Portuguese used the GMC Fox in Africa, which is basically a modified Humber IV manufactured in Canada. The main difference was the fitting of a .50 cal machinegun vice the 37mm gun, aprt from that they are almost identical in appearance externally at least. These saw service in Guinea and Mozambique as part of the recce squadrons. They were progressively replaced by Panhard AML-60s from the mid 1960s on. Bolt Action produces a Humber MkIV, although it's currently OOP as part of their mould rotation. Simple conversion, just replace the gun with a .50 cal in a gun tub, not dissimilar to that on the Humber MkII.
AML-60.
These progressively replaced the Foxes in service from about 1967 onwards (1970 on in Mozambique) and I believe they popped up in all theatres. FoA produce one in 1/56 but if you want a quite serviceable diecast then there's an old French Dinky version which pops up with remarkable frequency on Ebay. I have a couple of these, they are nicely done.
EBR-75.
In Angola there the 1st Cavalry Group, the Dragões de Angola used these heavy French cars. These were only used in Angola. The version used was the one with the big FL-10 turret. They were found to have significant limitations in terms of off road mobility in part die to the length of the 75 mm gun barrel ( basically a modified version of the Panther tank's main armament). They were mostly employed for convoy escort as a result. There was an APC version of the EBR, the EBR-VTT, used only Portugal, If you can imagine a Saracen based on the the French hull then you have a rough idea of what they look like.
The only way to get hold of an EBR-75 for 28mm is to buy the old French Dinky diecasts. These are becoming quite expensive and the proper ones with FL-10 turret ( the same one as the AMX-13 tank) are relatively rare. I look for the scungiest ones I can find then clean them up and repaint them myself. There is an ebay seller in France who casts white metal separate spare parts for old Dinky vehicles and you can get the right turret quite cheaply. Add some stowage and a decent paint job and it's amazing how well these old toys come up. The VTT APC is by necessity a conversion. there was a chap in France who makes variations of Dinky models on commission but you are probably better off doing it yourself.
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Daimler Dingo.
These were used by independent recce platoons. A number were converted with a fixed cupola atop them that looks a bit like a Humber turret, this had a number of weapons ports that could be used with rifles or MGs. the conversion wasn't universal, there are photos showing the standard open top version but this would make for a distinctive model. A 1/60 Dinky diecast exists and these are quite cheap usually. Bolt Action make them as did Chieftain in 1/56 and IIRC either Westwind or BTD.
Softskins.
Early in the war there was quite a lot of use of GMC trucks, the 2.5 ton version and the smaller 1 ton and 3/4 ton wepaons carriers. These tended to be replaced by Unimogs of various marks and for the heavier work by Portuguese made Berliets. Jeeps of various marks, including the Ford/ Willys originals, CJ-3 and CJ-5 were used as standard light vehicles although the SWB Unimog 401/ 404 series were a popular alternative, especially in the cav squadrons and platoons.
Everyman and his dog make the US softskins, just try the usual suspects, Bolt Action, Westwind etc. Appropriate Unimogs are only available from Dinky as are the Berliets. Fortunately they tend to be numerous and reasonably priced on Ebay especially if you buy paint worn versions and repaint. I've found that the Eureka crew for their M113 makes a good driver witha minimum of work and the spares you get are worthwhile anyway. Alas, nobody makes the SWB version. It's a pretty basic model and it's all simple angles so I'm planning a plasticard conversion as one of my next projects.
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APCs
Early in the piece M3 halftracks were supposedly used as the APC in cav squadrons. Two armoured cars, four softskin recce vehicles and an APC making up a platoon/troop in the cav squadrons. These would have accompanied the Fox GMCs, the EBR-75s were accompanied by the VTT version as mentioned above. To be honest I've never found a photo showing halftracks in Africa. That's not to say they didn't exist, merely that every photo I've seen to date shows trucks.
In the mid 1960s the Portuguese developed a wheeled APC of their own, the Chaimite, based on the Cadillac-Gage 'Commando'. Visually the look very similar, save for the rear of the vehicle, which is a an inclined plane on the Chaimite. These were used to accompany the AML-60s in cav squadrons. I've seen photos of both the turreted version (identical to the Cadillac-Gage T-50 turret) and the open top version with a pedestal mounted MG in service in Africa. These came in around 1970 and saw service in Guinea and Mozambique. Nobody makes a Chaimite, so you need to convert a Cadillac-Gage Commando. FoA makes a resin one in 1/56, whcih I suspect would be the easiest start point ( yet to get around to this myself) If you aren't too anal, you could just use as is, they look near identical except from the rear. Solido produce a diecast open top version in 1/50 but if set upon a conversion it would be more work.
Guns.
I doubt many gamers will require field artillery on the table but for completeness sake, the three most widely used guns, the Obus 8,8, Obus 10,5 and Obus 14 ( 25 pdr, 105mm Howitzer and 5.5" gun respectively) are all available in scale. Bolt Action do the 25 pdr (look for a version minus the muzzle baffle) as do others. the 105mm howitzer was actually the German leFH 18M of WW2 fame. Again Bolt Action make one as the leFH 18/40. Dinky, or is it Corgi? I foregt make a rather nice 5.5" gun that would sit well with 28mm figs. Again i doubt anyone will want them but in case someone wants to dress up a Portuguese fire base...
Mortars
The standard types found with infantry battalions were the French Brandt 81mm and US 60mm mortars of WW2 or pre WW2 vintage. These are readily found in 28mm. For field use, especially by the intervention forces, the 60mm was increasingly supplemented/replaced by a 60mm morteirete, a light support weapon. This isn't modelled as part of the existing Eureka range but it's probably the world's easiest conversion, simply an appropriately scaled bit of tubing, a small round base and a carrying strap from lead foil. The tube was marked with range gradations in paint, rather like the Bristish 2" mortar.
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Thanks Carlos, that's very good information.
Are you going to Cancon?
Cheers,
Helen
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Thanks - great info.
It looks like the Bolt Action Humber Mk IV is available again (via WArlord Games) -
http://store.warlordgames.com/humber-armoured-car-mk-iv-1760-p.asp (http://store.warlordgames.com/humber-armoured-car-mk-iv-1760-p.asp)
Was the M3 Scout car used at all?
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Good stuff! You mentioned that the EBR-VTT wasn't used outside of Portugal.. but then mentioned that it accompanied the EBR-10. Just to clear up any confusion...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_a5HV0hzOu8/TxKhziXrikI/AAAAAAAAHSE/HJN9SvkzdZw/s604/23-1961-ReconquistaBeiraBaixa.jpg)
You might have to save and enlarge the picture but, the second vehicle from the front is an EBR-VTT (Angola).
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wC8Ai9KUw_s/TxKkbSbADOI/AAAAAAAAHSQ/nFME800BCdM/s600/133MCARVALHO.jpg)
A better one from Mozambique.
As for tanks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dRHIFQXAMIM/TxKnk75l8oI/AAAAAAAAHSg/qjfikFxCozc/s413/06_joaquimsilva.jpg)
I originally thought that this might have been taken in Portugal before the guy shipped out, but the tank sits on dirt, rather than the concrete you'd expect in a military base in Portugal. It's an M-24 by the looks of it and I haven't seen another picture of one as yet, so make of this what you will.
Apparently three M5 Stuart tanks were deployed in Northern Angola and were named ‘Milocas’, ‘Licas’ and ‘Gina’ by their crews. They were used for convoy escort and ops against the FNLA and withdrawn in 1972. Other than this I'm not aware of any mention of armour in use, other than armoured cars.
The point remains that regardless of how many tanks were in the colonies, they weren't available in numbers, nor used to any great extent when available.
As for the M3 question, although I haven't researched extensively, I can't say I've ever seen a photo of one either. I was tempted to think that when the 'M3' is mentioned, they may be confusing it with the Panhard M3 VTT, the APC built on the chassis of the AML armoured car, but I've never seen a photo of one of those either, nor am I aware of Portugal even buying it. Production started on it in 1971, so I'm guessing that it's a blind alley too.
There's quite a bit of confusion surrounding written 'history' of the Portuguese Colonial Wars, so I tend to go with the photos. Unimogs and Berliet 'Gazelles' in abundance, with a few various jeeps, in the main. Chaimite and EBR-VTT personnel carriers, AML and EBR armoured cars and 'Dingo' scout cars, all work for me. I will be avoiding using the Alvis 'Fox', which I've seen mentioned as 'being used by the Portuguese', despite production on it only starting in 1973.
::)
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Are you going to Cancon?
That would be a good thing to know, Helen. I'm aiming for the 28th with Blackwolf and the Kardinal.
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Carlos. I understand that the Portuguese military archives are almost useless due to neglect and destruction. Is this true? I was told by an old archivist with a military research bent.
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Good stuff! You mentioned that the EBR-VTT wasn't used outside of Portugal.. but then mentioned that it accompanied the EBR-10. Just to clear up any confusion...
You might have to save and enlarge the picture but, the second vehicle from the front is an EBR-VTT (Angola).
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wC8Ai9KUw_s/TxKkbSbADOI/AAAAAAAAHSQ/nFME800BCdM/s600/133MCARVALHO.jpg)
A better one from Mozambique.
As for tanks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dRHIFQXAMIM/TxKnk75l8oI/AAAAAAAAHSg/qjfikFxCozc/s413/06_joaquimsilva.jpg)
I originally thought that this might have been taken in Portugal before the guy shipped out, but the tank sits on dirt, rather than the concrete you'd expect in a military base in Portugal. It's an M-24 by the looks of it and I haven't seen another picture of one as yet, so make of this what you will.
Apparently three M5 Stuart tanks were deployed in Northern Angola and were named ‘Milocas’, ‘Licas’ and ‘Gina’ by their crews. They were used for convoy escort and ops against the FNLA and withdrawn in 1972. Other than this I'm not aware of any mention of armour in use, other than armoured cars.
The point remains that regardless of how many tanks were in the colonies, they weren't available in numbers, nor used to any great extent when available.
As for the M3 question, although I haven't researched extensively, I can't say I've ever seen a photo of one either. I was tempted to think that when the 'M3' is mentioned, they may be confusing it with the Panhard M3 VTT, the APC built on the chassis of the AML armoured car, but I've never seen a photo of one of those either, nor am I aware of Portugal even buying it. Production started on it in 1971, so I'm guessing that it's a blind alley too.
There's quite a bit of confusion surrounding written 'history' of the Portuguese Colonial Wars, so I tend to go with the photos. Unimogs and Berliet 'Gazelles' in abundance, with a few various jeeps, in the main. Chaimite and EBR-VTT personnel carriers, AML and EBR armoured cars and 'Dingo' scout cars, all work for me. I will be avoiding using the Alvis 'Fox', which I've seen mentioned as 'being used by the Portuguese', despite production on it only starting in 1973.
::)
Yes the VTT was used in Angola, what I meant was that use of the VTT was unique to the Portuguese Army. Panhard made a number of prototypes but the French Army wasn't interested in them. Apparently, there's one in Saumur, which has two turrets, front and rear. The Portuguese version carried one at the front as shown in your photos. By the by the turret was the same one as on the AMX 13 VTT. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. Nice photos btw.
Portugal bought a lot of WW2 surplus or was gifted it through MAP in the 1950s. Hence the GMC armoured cars, trucks and the M-24s. I've seen that photo of the M-24 before. I suspect it was taken in Portugal at the cavalry school. M-24s were employed as the recce element of M-47 tank battalions and those were not deployed to Africa. You are quite right about the Stuarts, that was done on an experimental basis. There does seem to be a bit of confusion out there. The Osprey claims a photo of a Ferret with the crew in French helmets as Portuguese. If it is then it's a strange picture as the licence plate has the initial letter codes for the Portuguese Air Force!
As Jim's post demonstrates there are a lot of sites by groups or individual ex-combatants, so there's a very rich source of photos on the web.
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Carlos. I understand that the Portuguese military archives are almost useless due to neglect and destruction. Is this true? I was told by an old archivist with a military research bent.
I don't believe that to be true, although Nuno is certainly better qualified to answer than I. I think there are periods that are poorly covered, the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 certainly wasn't a gift to the historian, although that said sufficient information remains for a quite comprehensive picture of colonial era Portugal. You only have to look at the canon of CM Boxer to demonstrate that. As for the period in question, there's sufficient information for there to have been a flood of quite detailed books on the subject, I know, I own a number. Some things are still under embargo oddly enough. There was a recent and very informative book on Operation Green Seas (Operação Mar Verde) the Portuguese raid to topple the government of neighbouring Guinea-Conakry. When it came out it was revealed that quite a bit was still under wraps due to the sensitivity of the operation, it was a diplomatic disaster for Portugal. As an aside, if you are ever looking for a real boy's own scenario, Cockleshell heros meets The Dogs of War/Wild Geese it's worth looking into this operation.
I think the principal issue is that of language. Few enough people outside of the Lusophony are prepared to learn the language, which is a pity on a variety of levels (it's a beautiful language to start with). Maybe more will, now that Brazil, the largest Portuguese speaking country, has overtaken Britain to be the world's fifth largest economy.
I haven't attended CanCon for the better part of twenty years and as it happens my presence is required at a baptism that weekend so, alas, I won't be up. I'm sure Nic will be taking a selection of the latst toys, there are some additions to other ranges I'm sure you'll be interested in too. Would love to catch up with you and Helen at some point in the future.
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That would be a good thing to know, Helen. I'm aiming for the 28th with Blackwolf and the Kardinal.
I'll be there on Friday. Not sure yet if I'll enter into the painting contest. Will speak to Nic to ensure that the Portuguese come up too.
Need to speak with Brent to see if the idea of an EBR could be covered considering Nic will be stocking some of the Post-War/Modern vehicles to cover the miniatures he produces from my understanding.
Thanks Carlos, hopefully we will see you sometime in the next few years, God willing.
Cheers,
Helen
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I've always thought that the conflicts offered an ideal setting for 28mm gaming... the Portuguese even went to the trouble of creating independent reconnaissance units that were just the right size and mixture of toys for the average gaming table. ;)
It's never going to be as popular an era as Vietnam, but I feel it offers more because of that. The Portuguese forces are relatively low-tech and calling for 'Air' or 'Artillery' to solve a tactical problem isn't often an option. It's all infantry action for the most part.
An EBR model would be great, as would the APC, but primarily it's the Unimog that's missing imo. I haven't had Carlos' luck on e-bay and given the choice I'd prefer to buy resin vehicles anyway. I suppose it's very difficult to gauge how sellable something might be; Post-War gaming is a niche interest, mainly I believe to the lack of figures/vehicles available. It's a revolving argument really, as no toys equals no interest and no interest equals no toys.
So to paraphrase Janis Joplin "Oh Brent, won't you make me a Mercedes Benz". :D
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I have a spare Solido Panhard AML H90F1 if any of you are interested? PM if so.
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I've always thought that the conflicts offered an ideal setting for 28mm gaming... the Portuguese even went to the trouble of creating independent reconnaissance units that were just the right size and mixture of toys for the average gaming table. ;)
I wholeheartedly agree. Fascinating conflict with endless variety and I share your view that it's in many ways a more interesting conflict to game than Vietnam and easier on the wallet. The intervention forces, the paras, marines and commandos were organised in an ideal manner for gaming, 5 X groups of 5 or 25 to a platoon.
The one thing that's really missing are helicopters and more so than any other post war conflict, save Vietnam it was a helicopter war. Finding suitable Alouette IIIs is a tough task. There is an old Fujimi model out there, which is supposedly 1/48 (more like 1/55-1/60) but they are rarer than hen's teeth, expensive as a result and frankly they are a bloody awful kit to put together. I was weeping tears of blood to get the canopy sections of the one I found together. Not a happy experience and lots of sanding and filling later I might have something that could be tabled.
Heller did some in 1/72 but these aren't easy to find either. My heartfelt plea would be for someone to make a decent Alouette III either as a plastic kit or as a resin gaming piece. Actually given how much service they have seen and continue to see worldwide I'm surprised nobody has tackled the subject.
Until my parayers are answered I think I might resort to an idea I saw on LAF, making semi 3-D representations.
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I have a spare Solido Panhard AML H90F1 if any of you are interested? PM if so.
Alas not fielded by the Portuguese during the war. Radically different turret for the 60mm mortar armed version too.
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The matchbow superkings unimog is about 1/50th scale, and matches up pretty well with 28mm figures IMO. It tends to be fairly cheap too - although it has the later angular cab and bonnet rather than the earlier rounded one, so it might not be to everyone's authenticity tastes. Apparently one of the Corgi unimogs has the rounded components and is a smidge smaller than the matchbox one... but I've not been able to get hold of one yet to confirm...
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Now a couple of corrections to an earlier post, where I said I had never seen a photo of a White halftrack in Africa. I've just had another look at Afonso & Gomes' Guerra Colonial and sure enough there's one tucked away in a column of GMC trucks, it's even captioned as such. Looks like Guiné. I even found a photo of a Berliet mounting a quad.50 cal AA mounting for convoy duty. Exactly like thos gun trucks in Vietnam.
As for Humbers well I was right in that none served in Africa only the GMC Fox clone. However there were a samll number of Humbers in Macau in the period and apparently some in Goa prior to its capture by the Indians.
By the by, if anyone is looking for a one stop shop for references, the above book is probably as close as it gets. Short of buying the five volume official history it's probably the best thing out there. It's a big folio format hardback, nigh on 700 pages, full of photos, maps details on weapons, tactics, organisation it's a wargamer's treasure trove. It even has some cute photos of models of various aircraft, vehicles and troops made by Portuguse modellers. Pretty hard to beat. Now if there was an English version I'm sure this period would really become popular.
And for those wanting to see some film footage of many of the vehicles used in the war, it's worth checking out the film Capitães De Abril about the 1974 revolution. Great film and it uses a lot of kit contemporary to the war.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q770xkzg5kg&feature=related
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Heller did some in 1/72 but these aren't easy to find either.
They were as bad as the Fujimi to put together.
I don't know why people are so obsessed with scale parity when air sea and land operations are involved (with the honourable exception of amphibian vehicles). Using 1/72 air units on a 1/56 or 1/48 land scale battle is entirely acceptable as far as I'm concerned. You simply establish a ZOC around a stationary helo for range and firing purposes.
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Actually I quite agree, the Fujimi model just happened to be the first I could find . Most of my aircraft are 1/72. They are essentially 3 dimensional counters anyway. 1/72 gives you a better range of models, they are more easily stored and take up less space on a table. For similar reasons I use quite a bit of 1/72 scale terrain with 28mm. Smaller footprint.
I've subsequently discovered that Solido did a diecast Alouette III apparently in a useful scale.
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I'm a plane fan and this is something I've struggled with. The purist in me says 1/48 is the closest match for the figures, just as 1/100 is for 15mm etc. etc. As you say though it's a token and it's not like you're going to have it flying at a scale 200 feet+.
The only time you need aircraft to scale, is when they are going to be interacting with figures on the ground. As troops were dropped some way from the action mostly, is there a need to depict anything other than 'G-Cars' (or whatever) on table? As these are also flying above (4' or so above the table at 200 feet), any relationship between the size of the model and the troops on the table is pretty meaningless.
Having said all that... an Alouette III in 28mm would be good. :D
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Carlos. I understand that the Portuguese military archives are almost useless due to neglect and destruction. Is this true? I was told by an old archivist with a military research bent.
Hi,
It was certainly true 20 years ago when I went to the Historical Military Archive but there's been a lot of work since then. They used to employ conscripts that cared nothing for the job and made a complete mess of it. I'm not saying that they are in top shape now but they are close. The problem is a chronical lack of funds to improve, modernise and maintain it. Floods and other natural causes have also contributed to destruction.
There are so many good military, and civil archives, with competent staff and modern structures that it's unfair and erroneous to validate that statement.
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Here you can find info on a Recon Squadron and the use of White Scout Cars in Guinea:
http://blogueforanada.blogspot.com/2006_02_26_blogueforanada_archive.html
A nice photos of Chaimite w/ gun turret:
http://blogueforanadaevaotres.blogspot.com/2010/09/guine-6374-p7047-em-busca-de-145.html
http://blogueforanadaevaotres.blogspot.com/2011/12/guine-6374-p9216-o-nosso-fadario-8-o.html
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There are so many good military, and civil archives, with competent staff and modern structures that it's unfair and erroneous to validate that statement.
I agree, K. Apparently the legendary archive is the Egyptian army's. Horrendously disorganised. Which is tragic for someone who's made Ibrahim Pasha a bit of a life study.
I don't want to hijack this thread as it's quite an interesting subject. I have friends living and working in Timor right now and have a bit of knowledge of that zone.
By the way, Carlos, CR Boxer was a serious springboard for my interest in the Indian Ocean. Aceh and the Molukas are a huge study in themselves.
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I take it you've read The Secret Discovery of Australia then. Fun book, even if it requires some incredible leaps of faith and logic.
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Here you can find info on a Recon Squadron and the use of White Scout Cars in Guinea:
http://blogueforanada.blogspot.com/2006_02_26_blogueforanada_archive.html
A nice photos of Chaimite w/ gun turret:
http://blogueforanadaevaotres.blogspot.com/2010/09/guine-6374-p7047-em-busca-de-145.html
http://blogueforanadaevaotres.blogspot.com/2011/12/guine-6374-p9216-o-nosso-fadario-8-o.html
Good find... I didn't know there was a FSV version of the Chaimite in use back then, I thought it was just the 'Scout Car' (pintle mg APC) and T-50 turret (or whatever it is) versions that were used.
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ooooh, I will be picking those up from Eureka at Cancon. Almost worth the four hour drive alone...
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I've been looking forward to Fof's bush wars - thanks for all the information in this post.
Some photos of painted miniatures/models would be nice, but then again I'm just greedy 8)
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I've been looking forward to Fof's bush wars - thanks for all the information in this post.
Some photos of painted miniatures/models would be nice, but then again I'm just greedy 8)
Same here... I'm still waiting to see all of the figures for this.
There was another similar thread a while ago, where amongst other things, Carlos did a comprehensive list of die-casts and stuff available in '28mm-ish', but I haven't found it yet. That was also well worth reading.
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You'll love this article:
http://www.operacional.pt/the-unknown-war-portuguese-paratroopers-in-africa/
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Nice... and written by a Paratrooper, who knew some of the men he writes about. Excellent find! :)
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This is an absolutely fascinating thread. Thanks, everybody, for posting!
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So...does anyone have them in the flesh? Or should I say, in the lead? lol
I'm thinking about buying some, but Fighting15s in the UK still isn't selling them :\
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They say all good things come to those who wait but I must admit I'm sruggling lol Keep us posted if you can Carlos.
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Excellent figures - picked some up from Nic at Salute this year. Love to see more added to these.
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They've been listed on the Eureka website, so presumably Eureka's UK and US distributors will have them now. The Eureka website is also showing that their resin Alouette III is also available. I saw one of the masters/ pre-production models a couple of months ago ( naturally, it came out after I had bought the diecast Solido version). Hopefully they will be making Portuguese crew and passengers too.
BTW. It's just occured to me that with all those plastic 28mm US infantry coming out, there's a cheap conversion source for quite a number of armies that used the G-3. Iran-Iraq era Iranians included.
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BTW. It's just occured to me that with all those plastic 28mm US infantry coming out, there's a cheap conversion source for quite a number of armies that used the G-3. Iran-Iraq era Iranians included.
It's just a pity most of them are wearing gaiters.
Are there any apart from Warlord Games and Wargames Factory?
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Agreed but I was just thinking about knicking the heads. Thirty odd heads for $19.95 sounds ok to me, even if I ditch the bods.
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Agreed but I was just thinking about knicking the heads. Thirty odd heads for $19.95 sounds ok to me, even if I ditch the bods.
Fair enough! lol
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But if they were wearing boots instead of gaiters you could have had 30 bloody useful bodies too...
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Extremely useful. I find it a bit incongruous that a fair few sets of German figures are modelled as they appeared at the war's end, yet the producers of US ranges insist on modelling them as anything but. Still all those M1 helmets will come in handy... and Batista's men were wearing gaiters as late as 1959, so its not all bad.
:)
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and Batista's men were wearing gaiters as late as 1959, so its not all bad.
Now there's a useful bit of information! :)
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Here's a shot taken in 1956... they have Springfield Rifles in this picture, but Garands were issued too, although in smaller numbers at first.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MfpVfOHbMEc/T2xyoyfS2DI/AAAAAAAAJoY/YRbWS6lxdf4/s636/3454765504_62229fd1a7_o.jpg)
You might be able to make them pass for USMC in Korea...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-k398kyQWP84/T7VmCnz0itI/AAAAAAAAKF8/KYQAfWYcDEo/s600/korean-war-un-troops-granger.jpg)
As US Army, I don't know though... I don't recall seeing any photos that don't show them wearing M1943 uniform.
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That's a fantastic picture of the Cuban army!
I have been tempted to do the Cuban Revolution for quite a while, it would lend itsself well to skirmish gaming. Might give it a serious look now!
But when it comes to US Marines I'll just stick to WWII Marines! ;)
As US Army, I don't know though... I don't recall seeing any photos that don't show them wearing M1943 uniform.
Neither have I. That's why it's a damn shame the Wargames Factory figures are wearing M1943 jackets but gaiters! :?
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I'll humbly offer this page (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/p/cuban-revolution.html) on my blog regarding the Cuban Revolution. It's not comprehensive, but it's pretty much all I've been able to find.
Anyway... back to 28mm African Wars Portuguese. :D
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Cheers for the link! Nice bit of background there.
Anyway... back to 28mm African Wars Portuguese. :D
Oh, alright then! :)
My drum teacher was Portuguese. I came to a lesson one day wearing a camouflage jacket.
He looks at it and says, "You know, I don't usually like camouflage after what I went through in Angola. But that's a nice jacket!"
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I was recently looking at a Portuguese website, which said that the White Scout cars were only used in Guine, outside of Portugal. As it had some credible figures to put against various AFV's in service even citing numbers assigned to various regiments and the cavalry school.
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just ordered some
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Just received mine, nice looking figures will fit in with Mongrel and Stan Johansen without a problem. A bit lighter than TAG.
But while I really like the figures I have no desire to do the Portuguese war, what else could I use these as besides mercs?
South Afrikaans, Rhodesians? I was considering calling my Syrians Cubans and have them battle in Angola
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Well with suitable headswaps and if you aren't too anal about details, then there were and still are quite a few armies that sported G3 rifles. Greeks, Turks, Iranians etc etc.
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IIRC.... wasn't there a group of Colonial Portuguese who fought for the FNLA against the MPLA immediately post-cease fire and before Callan and his ilk? They'd likely be usable straight off in a mix of camos and plain fatigues in a mixed race unit.
:?
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Just received mine, nice looking figures will fit in with Mongrel and Stan Johansen without a problem. A bit lighter than TAG.
But while I really like the figures I have no desire to do the Portuguese war, what else could I use these as besides mercs?
South Afrikaans, Rhodesians? I was considering calling my Syrians Cubans and have them battle in Angola
You could use them for SADF 32BAT or Matabeleland Native Police (http://www.freewebs.com/dudleywall/intafweapons.htm) with headswaps. Iranians are also an easy conversion.
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IIRC.... wasn't there a group of Colonial Portuguese who fought for the FNLA against the MPLA immediately post-cease fire and before Callan and his ilk? They'd likely be usable straight off in a mix of camos and plain fatigues in a mixed race unit.
:?
Yes. They were 70 ex-Comandos lead by Lt. Col. Santos e Castro and Major Alves Cardoso.
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I just put the first round of paint on these, I sure hope Eureka make a second pack of these I'll certainly buy more.
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The new Eureka Alouette helicopter is ideal for this period. Same guns, slightly different arrangement for the ammo feed on the gunship version. There's some prospect Kosta may do Portuguese crew.
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Yes. They were 70 ex-Comandos lead by Lt. Col. Santos e Castro and Major Alves Cardoso.
Obrigado! :)
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Yeah I need some more of these, the next set I will change their heads over to an American M1 helmet. What to do with the bazooka guy, I might try to turn it into a mortar tube.
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Yeah I need some more of these, the next set I will change their heads over to an American M1 helmet. What to do with the bazooka guy, I might try to turn it into a mortar tube.
Because of the pose, it's easy to cut away and replace. 60mm mortar, Super-bazooka and an MG-3 are my current three conversion projects.
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All you ever wanted to know about headwear in the Guerra Colonial:
http://ultramar.terraweb.biz/Livros/JornaldoExercito/Coberturas_JE602Jan_607Jun2011.pdf
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I have decided to use these for my Zambezi army instead of Mongrel BOAR it will be a lot easier to do head swaps on Eurekas figures.
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I've been following this thread with interest, and would like to expand the Portuguese with a few more figures before the year is out.
When Carlos first suggested then pushed for this range I was happy to run with it since I already had an interest in 20th century southern African wars, and plus it seemed a natural complement to the Rhodesians and African Nationalist guerillas that Nic and I had already produced.
So, extra weapons that need to be added are:
Uzi (officer)
MG3 firing or on patrol
Troop types, I'm thinking:
Beret wearing soldiers
Black African Angolans in Portuguese service
So what do you guys think?
-Kosta
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1)Paras: Folding stock version of the G-3 and paratrooper boots. Headwear per current types although late in the war you see some in floppy bush hats. Alternatively, AR-10 armed paras.
2) Beret wearing troops, ideally including a bearded figure (Fuzileiros)
3)Some seated figures to kit out the Alouette and also to crew vehicles, the Eureka Zodiac etc.
4) Dragões de Angola. Mounted Portuguese. You could use the same horses and dollies as the Grey's Scouts. Does need a folding stock G-3.
Weapons?
1)MG-42
2) 60mm Morteirete although strictly speaking this is a very easy conversion and probably not necessary.
3) Breda MG. You see a lot of these fitting out trucks, jeeps and scout cars. They were also retained for base defence.
4) I'd rather see the FBP submachine gun than the Uzi because it's more distinctively Portuguese but I'd be happy with either.
African troops would also be very welcome.
Actually, on the subject of African troops it would be really nice to see some more insurgents, some armed with SKS carbines, PPSH submachineguns and some crew figures for the 82mm mortar. I suspect a Chinese RCL and crew would be pushing it.
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I would most definitely be interested in pre AK-47 African troops as most of my gaming is in the 1960s
[African troops would also be very welcome.
Actually, on the subject of African troops it would be really nice to see some more insurgents, some armed with the SKS carbines, PPSH submachineguns and some crew figures for the 82mm mortar. I suspect a Chinese RCL and crew would be pushing it.]
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Hi Kosta,
Welcome to the forum. It's great to have you here for some direct feedback.
What Carlos M. listed plus I would add Paratroopers and African Commandos with AKs, RPDs and RPGs; heads with assorted headgear for conversions; UZIs are OK for the really early period in Angola, Paramilitary and Police units but I would skip it for officers; M20A1 bazooka; African Auxiliaries/Militia w/ Kar98; Civilians; "Turras" with WW2 German and Soviet weapons... That's about it.
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Yes, nice to see you here Kosta and well done on the figures. Carlos and the rest of the guys have pretty much covered what I'd be looking for, especially the pre-AK47 weapons. My main interest is Southern Africa, particularly Angola, from colonyl to civil war, so stick with that and I'm in. Rhodesia's good too of course, so it's all good.
I'm probably one amongst a few others, who have been waiting for further releases before committing, so news that there are more releases in the pipeline is very welcome!
:)
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Thanks very much for the welcome and feedback gentlemen.
At this stage I can say that I will be adding SKS and Ppsh41 armed guerillas for the insurgents, but am still deciding which of the many options to pursue for the Portuguese.
-Kosta
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A guerilla or two with Mauser rifles and other odd antiques would be nice too. :)
I suppose logically, for the Portuguese, it might be wise to start from the bottom up, i.e. start with the most common weapons. So to add to what you've already done, an MG3, a rifle-grenadier and a guy with an M20 Bazooka (or even an RPG for the late part of the war). Other than that, more G-3s, guys with AR-10s as an alternative for Paras, etc, etc.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be looking to create a 25 man unit of caçadores, with as few duplications as possible in it initially (riflemen excepted). Obviously with more options I'd consider making up additional types; Paras, Fuzileiros, GE etc.
That regardless, it's a great range and I'm looking forwards to additions (and of course them hitting Fighting 15's online shop :?)
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Here are some new African guerillas that I've just completed. 28mm, as usual.
Guerillas with PPSh-41 SMG.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R_YL93ITrHI/UM7rmesCUbI/AAAAAAAAABQ/Zxy6DP4lLvw/s1600/28mmEurekaMin-ZanlaPPsh-greens.jpg)
Plus some SKS armed guerillas.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BrO4tLyMjGI/UM7r0lWa0KI/AAAAAAAAABY/VtO98XGcAJs/s1600/28mmEurekaMin-ZanlaSKS-greens.jpg)
Come by and visit my new blog where you can view the same two photos lol
http://flyinggorilla.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/new-28mm-zanla-greens.html (http://flyinggorilla.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/new-28mm-zanla-greens.html)
-Kosta
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Great looking figures :-*
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Now those really are something else! :o
I don't game Africa, but they will certainly find a place in Caribbean imagi-nation.
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Wow, those are great!
I don't play Africa either, but might just have to start!
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Those are some spiffy rebels.
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Lovely! Thanks for sharing Kosta. Do know if Nic is likely to cast them up prior to Christmas? If so I'll pop over and buy myself a large Christmas present. :)
Bit of conversion to the SKS to make a Czech vz52 and I now have all I need for Cuban militias for the Bay of Pigs (well short of the latifundistas and CIA lackeys that is). Happy days!
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Those are excellent! :)
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Glad you guys like 'em :)
I'm planning to add a few more poses with a couple of different weapons before their official release.
Carlos, to answer your question yes these have been cast up and Nic should have some pre-production castings at Eureka.
-Kosta
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... sounding a bit greedy here ::)
but... are weapons crews maybe in the offing too? :)
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Cheers mate, I'll go fatten your bank balance a little then.
Mausers and a SA-7 Manpad would be nice ;)
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These are great figures, Kosta. I got these today in my latest parcel from Nic when I got home from holidays. Thanks for your excellent work :)
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woaw j'adore !
I am waiting impatiently the official release :-*