Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on February 06, 2012, 11:43:01 AM
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I'm pretty sure there are loads of methods to make them. Any hints, tutorials?
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Teddy bear fur or scouring pads.
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I like the look you get with towels.
(http://ryan.skow.org/city/greentree/pics/Drybrushed.jpg)
Check out Ryan Skow's tutorial right Here (http://ryan.skow.org/city/greentree/ThatchedRoof.html)
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I like the look you get with towels.
Check out Ryan Skow's tutorial right Here (http://ryan.skow.org/city/greentree/ThatchedRoof.html)
Looks good, indeed, will read the tutorial, thank you for the link.
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No joke but if you use teddy bear fur, make sure you shave it first...
cheers
James
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no teddy bears killing for me, I've got kids :)
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No joke but if you use teddy bear fur, make sure you shave it first...
cheers
James
Don't shave dear, waxing is the way forward ;) :o
I use the Teddy bear fur method and like it, I know what Bibbly is saying though, the fur can look too long, so trimming it is preferred.
Here's a couple of my attempts:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/86_03_05_10_4_13_50_2.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/4/86_09_12_09_3_26_30_1.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/7/86_16_08_10_8_30_08_0.jpg)
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looks good, Nick! though a bit too flat, not enough bushy like the real german thatched roofs
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looks good, Nick! though a bit too flat, not enough bushy like the real german thatched roofs
You can rough it up before the glue dries to however much you want.
no teddy bears killing for me, I've got kids :)
Needs must... :)
cheers
James
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I would go with the towel. That is a great look.
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I like the effect you get wit DAS Modelling Clay, see;
http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/2010/01/flintloque-large-farm-house-part.html
Tony
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I use flax and a good amount of PVA ;)
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No joke but if you use teddy bear fur, make sure you shave it first...
cheers
James
Quite true. Unclipped it has a tendency to shed whilst you are combing or shaping the wet strands. Teddy bear fur IMO is better for more rough and ready thatching. Straw roofs for simple structures, some native dwellings etc. I recently used some for a generic Middle eatern compound, to cover a pen for livestock/storage.
Teddy bear fur has a distinct grain and whilst, to some degree you can mould or shape it witha brush, it doesn't really work trying to brush it backwards from its natural fall. If you are doing a circular roof, you need to bear this in mind. The best way to do a circular roof is to cut out strips and progressively mount them on your roof, building it up in concentric rings. This is really fucking fiddly and I can't say I've mastered it yet. My early efforts haven't really been quite up to snuff.
Towelling, on the other hand, is much easier to work with and produces a more manicured look, perfect for the 'thatched cottage look'. For circular structures you can pretty much get away with cutting out circles. It doesn't need trimming before hand either.
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I like the look you get with towels.
Check out Ryan Skow's tutorial right Here (http://ryan.skow.org/city/greentree/ThatchedRoof.html)
I second Ryan's toot. The only change I would suggest is to soak the towel in your glue and water mixture, squeeze it out, and then apply it. The roof comes out rock hard and will not chip or break in any way.
Snitchy sends.
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There's a clear example of the scouring pad method (which is what I generally use) in my thread here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=28517.msg436183#msg436183).
The scouring pad method is definitely the lazy man's friend! Here's what I've worked out:
1) Cut pieces of pad to fit. I start with white pads.
2) Mix some black acrylic or very, very dark dark umber + black acrylic with a heavy does of water (maybe a 1:1 ratio or even more water) in a fair sized flat container (needs to be bigger than your roof bits). Soak the roof pieces for a bit and then wring them out JUST a tiny bit. This is to dull the gleaming white of the pad and provide a bit of darker colour at the core of the thatch.
3) Leave the pad to dry out overnight. You should have a bit of a dull grey now.
4) Repeat steps 2 and 3, only with less water and more paint and this time in the colour you want for the final thatch.
The exact amounts of wringing and water really depend on the paint you're using, the scouring pad consistency, and the colour that you want. So I absolutely recommend experimenting a bit first with a few scrap bits at both soak stages. Just don't overdo the black or the roof will look dead.
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I like the effect you get wit DAS Modelling Clay, see;
http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/2010/01/flintloque-large-farm-house-part.html
Tony
That is a splendid building, Tony :-*
Did you ever get it into production, only i wouldn't mind one of those...
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I put Milliput (Yellow-Gray) on plastic surface and score with a blade. You can see the results in pic 25 (last pic) at www.warin15mm.com/Pax-Romana-Gallery.com
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Sorry website was incompletely written: www.warin15mm.com/Pax-Romana-Gallery.html
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Cheap hand towels work nicely as thatch.
(http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/4011/rusbldgjan2012.jpg)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/614/halftimberbarn29june201.jpg)
First photo is the recent Russian buildings I've been doing for Russian Civil War, the second is a barn I did last year for English Civil War/Thirty Years War gaming. Both are towel; the ECW barn I did as strips of towel, the RCW buildings are simpler, just solid sheets of towel.
First, cut oversized pieces of towel. Much easier to trim afterward than try to patch, trust me.
Glue down with generous amounts of white glue to a semi-coherent understucture; most of my roofs start with mattboard so they needn't be fancy.
After the initial glue has mostly dried, soak the towel with a 1:1 mix of white glue:water. Ignore at least overnight, or until mostly dry, whichever happens first.
Basecoat with a mix of 1:1 black paint and straight white glue. Again, ignore overnight or until mostly dry, whichever happens first.
Heavily drybrush with various shades of tan and grey. The resulting roofs should be largely gamer-proof (ie, saturated in glue and nearly rock-hard) and look, IMO, pretty damn good.
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That is a splendid building, Tony :-*
Did you ever get it into production, only i wouldn't mind one of those...
I am afraid not. The building was initially for use with my Flintloque collection. Then it was planned to be cast in resin, however there was not enough interest to go ahead and the building now stands finished and under coated, but awaiting paint.
The structure is now quite famous as the cover illustration to the Barking Irons Tales from the White Liar series of short stories featured on Barking Irons Online. See;
http://www.barkingirons.co.uk/j/game-systems/flintloque/adventures/321-rabbits-in-habits
Tony
http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/
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Are you saying apply a single sheet onto the roof and comb, or do you cut and use strips to create the layered thatch effect. I ask because all the hand towels and bath towels I've seen always have some stitched design... I'm having trouble identifying suitable material, partly because the end result seems so radically different from the initial look
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I would go with the 'towel' method but as one piece on each side and then a capping strip at the apex rather than the 'rows' of thatch as shown in FSKN's post.
Look at any European thatched roofs on the web and they are uniform thickness with no 'rows' and I remember one in Hamburg that was a uniform finish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatching
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Thatching for buildings I see here in the UK would probably be smooth, they lay bundles in rows and then shave the surface. Don't know if it is for appearance or helps the water run off better.
More rustic buildings or localised styles might be different. I use plumbers hemp on my African huts.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82689.msg1014720#msg1014720 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82689.msg1014720#msg1014720)
Suspect with weathering it would make the layers less obvious.
Al
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Sukhe - thanks for resurrecting this thread - I was going to ask to same question as the Prof back in 2012. This is my contribution to the debate and what I have produced over the years and I can't say I am really happy with any of it.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/7162_26_11_16_7_23_55.jpg)
This is combed teddy Bear fur.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/7162_26_11_16_7_25_11.jpg)
The 2 on the left are towelling, back right is filler scored with a nail and the front is the teddy bear fur again.
I like the towelling the best but I think it is actually the least like thatch and I have never seen layers of thatch as in the layers of toweling shown in the tutorial, but I like that the best of the lot, I suppose it is what I think thatch should look like even though it doesn't.
Silent Invaders take on it having a ridge of extra material is also good, very often this was turf sods.
The Grand Manor roof is I think the nearest to actual thatch in terms of texture.
The other thing is colour, all thatching starts of as a yellowish colour but within a maximum period of 2 years, depending on the straw used it is grey, and very often has moss growing to a greater or lesser extent depending on where the house is, although I suspect that modern air polution has an impact on the moss growth.
I am also not happy with the colour I have achieved, starting off with black and then mixing with white and drybrushing 3 or 4 lighter layers of this until a light white dry brush.
It would be useful if you have any guidelines on how you achieve a greyish colour for thatch, and any more tips.
If the Prof reads this it would also be very interesting to see what he produced after considering all the advice.
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To throw another monkey-wrench into the mix, here's my version, which uses scouring pad stained (I soak it, then let it dry out with much of the paint in it - bit of a trial and error process), first with gray, then with brown:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/FramFramson/Cottage01.jpg)
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This is one of my experiments. It's blue foam, carved to shape and then carefully sanded with 80grit sandpaper in the appropriate direction. I still need some practise at it ::)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Terrain/Dorset%201700s/DC991042-E0B3-4714-B7F0-FCBE75E7FD3B_zpsa82bc0jr.jpg)
cheers
James
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I guess this is what we are aiming for
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/24/7162_28_01_16_7_51_55.jpg)
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I almost feel like the ideal might be a very fine carpet.
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Yes - or maybe felt?
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Yes - or maybe felt?
Think you want something with at least some apparent depth.
I'd almost say velvet might work too if it was totally matte. But I think a varnish coat might ruin the velvet texture.
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Spray varnish?
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Spray varnish?
Possibly, but even then you'd probably have to be very careful. I expect it would be a mostly airbrush job (you'd need some colour variation, etc.).
One of the reasons I hate towel texture is because it really looks like a lot of fat loose strands all gummed and glued with goop (which is what it is, after all). I think it would be very easy to get gummed up velvet. Not impossible though - decent airbrush work is what the fellows who make teddy fur grasslands use, so it should be feasible with care.
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Maybe you could just dry brush the velvet and effectively "stain" it, not varnishing or glueing at all.
If the nap was short enough this might work well.
I think you are probably right that felt is too smooth to be effective.
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Maybe you could just dry brush the velvet and effectively "stain" it, not varnishing or glueing at all.
If the nap was short enough this might work well.
I think you are probably right that felt is too smooth to be effective.
Well as I mentioned I thought your towel roof looked quite good, vagabond:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/26/7162_30_11_16_7_35_47_2.jpg)
I think the key is that your towel is the first time I've ever seen it neat and combed to be properly vertical (it's not so much that your is combed per se, but that you paid attention to the "grain" of the towel and are using it properly). Most of the time towel gets painted/glued such that the towel strands go everywhere willy-nilly and it looks a mess and not much like thatch, especially if the maker overdoes it on the paint or glue.
The other problem I tend to have with towel is that you can see the looped ends on all the fibres. But overall your roof has a pretty good texture - good depth with some variation in shading and tone to bring out the texture, but not TOO much. Teddy bear fur often has the opposite problem - the strands are so fine that any amount of paint or glue cakes them together and even if they don't, the texture is often too fine, too smooth. Just as with miniatures, sometimes you need to overemphasize something in a counter-intuitive way to make it seem "correct".
We're not quite at the perfect replica, but there's a sense of what we need to get there.
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Hi Fram I agree with all you say about towel, it does tend to look like what it is, this one was unlooped (if that's a word) and quite a fine pile. When my wife finds out it's missing I shall catch it in the neck. :)
This is my 3rd go at towel thatch and I've tried 4 other ways in the past including teddy bear fur glued and combed and not been happy with any of them and still think it's a long way to go.
However Lynda has just admitted to having a velvet dress, I wonder if she would like the hem taking up a few inches ;)
I didn't pay much attention to the photo and at this stage it's only undercoated in black gesso which has a slight sheen on it. The photo was taken in bright sunlight coming through the window and has created a very nice subtle shading which is unfortunately not my work.
I have since painted it and I'm not sure if I've improved it ::)