Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Johnnytodd on February 13, 2012, 02:04:53 AM
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So this is something of a rant. I just placed my order with Emil Horky for a small group of his WW2 Czechoslovak soldiers and it got me to thinking... why are there so many makers of 28mm German Falschirmjaegers ( I can count 7 different companies off the top of my head), SS, and every possible configuration of Wehrmacht, when so many other combatant nations are completely ignored? There were maybe 150K german paras who served in WW2 but nearly 600K hungarian soldiers, not to mention Holland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.... I understand that elite units sell but 7 makers of Falschirmjaegers?!?
Johnnytodd
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Yeah, it's slim pickings. Here's an OstFront guide with sources for Hungarians and Romanians in 28mm:
http://sbminisguy.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/resource-guide-for-28mm-ww2-eastern-front-gaming/
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I would love to see some Hungarians, well Romanians as well I suppose, but alas, there are not that many that would be really interested perhaps - but a few would be good at least :-P
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I think Outpost sell Romanians in 28mm
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Good question... Also... With all the people being fascinated with the Crete campaign... Were are the Cretan partisans?
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Good question... Also... With all the people being fascinated with the Crete campaign... Were are the Cretan partisans?
There are plenty of commonwealth figures to use for Crete. The Cretan partisans mainly killed and mutilated wounded and incapacitated soldiers, could use any civilian I suppose, give them an axe or a knife, and you are all set.
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why are there so many makers of 28mm German Falschirmjaegers ( I can count 7 different companies off the top of my head), SS, and every possible configuration of Wehrmacht, when so many other combatant nations are completely ignored?
Because they started it? :D
Or maybe because they had the best uniforms, best gear, glamorous, dashing reputations, and won a lot - until they started losing.
Compare and contrast several of the smaller nations you mention - whose gear was drab and unflattering, and whose armies (and I generalise) got steamrollered by one side or other, or played inglorious or inconsequential roles in the great global conflagration.
In short, the main players are represented because that's what the market wants. People want to play the best-looking armies with the most heroic and / or notorious records, and whose force of arms decided the main outcomes of the second world war.
Ergo, Germany, Japan, America, Russia and Great Britain and the Commonwealth.
To a lesser extent Italy and France, for the same reasons above.
You might be enthused about playing Balkan or Scandanavian 'minor powers', but I suspect most WW2 gamers aren't.
Compare and contrast the Finns - also a fringe player in WW2 proper, but with that glamorous, dogged, heroic reputation for ski-ing commandos bravely resisting the mighty Soviet bear. People like that kind of thing, so there are figures for it...
Most wargamers are shallow creatures. We want to play glamorous roles, just like in our favourite war movies. We don't mind playing the goodies or the baddies - but not many of us want to portray out-and-out losers.
(Be that right or wrong, I fear that's the way it is :))
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... and as for the companies making the figures?
The sad truth is that a single German, American, British etc. figure will cost you the same to produce as a single Hungarian, Romanian, Dutch etc. but outsell them by many hundreds (I suspect thousands).
The best hope is that companies that already sell the 'popular stuff' might consider branching out a little (such as Bolt Action have in the past) or some kind soul (with deep pockets) might persue them as a personal project and sell them to the public.
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It's worth remembering that, while there have always been some marginal ranges (1st Corps springs to mind), 28mm has only recently become a popular size for WW2. For decades, WW2 simply was 20mm. So as yet, the variety of coverage that there is in 20mm has not built up in 28mm. Manufacturers are concentrating on the most popular units first, unless indulging a personal interest.
Units such as falschirmjager and Waffen SS are in plentiful supply because of the confluence of several streams:
i) the historical wargames industry is largely based in Britain and other anglophone countries, so manufacturers prioritise wars and campaigns that are familiar in those countries;
ii) at least in those countries, Nazis sell - just look at Osprey's catalogue or the History Channel schedules. To judge from the history shelves of a typical British bookshop, you'd think that German history began in 1933 and ended in 1945;
iii) "elite" military units also sell - hence the relative overabundance of special forces in modern miniatures lines (reflecting the popular cult of the SAS), or French Imperial Guard and British Rifles in Napoleonics. As well as glamour, they tend to have the best equipment, which appeals to power gamers;
iv) objectively, a German army is a good buy for WW2 because you can use it against so many different opponents. The British may have fought on more fronts, but they tended to do so in different uniforms.
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I blame the politics of historiography. For example, the history of Romania during the conflict was restricted by the communist regime to only the period fighting against the Axis, obviously for propaganda reasons, and obviously Western historians didn’t have access to any sources. So we’ve only really had a chance to even look at the history for 20 years.
Romania’s contribution to the war was on par with the likes of Italy, but she has been forgotten due to subsequent events.
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i understand your point of view, still waiting for Warlord to release there New Italians.
My greeks are all produced at the master stage and hopefully be complete for the end of march.
I will paint up all the new ones to show.
David
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Early representatives of Spanish troops are on my wishlist, along with primarely Hungarians. Also Romanians in german dienst would be most welcome. However, it is, alas, as allready mentioned, simple economical reasons behind this, and quite frankly, I do understand that and fully support it.
However, Warlords have allready started to make some "fringe" troops, something I appreciate, as I am sure that others do as well. I hope they will give at least some of the "other" nations a go in the future. Do remember that Hungarians and Romanians where a major part of the war effort for germany.
The problem is that there have been a influx of interest in the early stages of the war, since its fashionable to play at the moment, all the pretentious wargamers love this period, so they can run around like crazy with their hordes of PzIIs and Samouas. This means that the miniature and vehicle manufacturers have to accomodate to their (obviously wrong) taste and start making all that early war crap, further pushing our brethren from Hungaria away from my painting table. Rude, to say the least. My taste of the war must be more important than the early war crowd, ehh? :-P
I just realised, that perhaps there are Empress miniatures that would work as spaniards for the early part of the war? This must be explored, I got really exited. I cant belive I havent thought about this before. Oh dear, early signs of Altzheimers perhaps? :(
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It's just that you've picked the wrong scale for WW2. Romanians, Norwegians, Bulgarians, Slovenes etc all exist in 20mm. :) Count yerself lucky though. Try moderns in 28mm.
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It's just that you've picked the wrong scale for WW2. Romanians, Norwegians, Bulgarians, Slovenes etc all exist in 20mm. :) Count yerself lucky though. Try moderns in 28mm.
What is this 20mm that you are talking about? Oh... ah now I see, the poor cousin of 28mm Wargaming? :-P
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No, actually it's the wealthy uncle of 28mm gaming, at least as far as WW2 is concerned.
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What is this 20mm that you are talking about? Oh... ah now I see, the poor cousin of 28mm Wargaming? :-P
Now, now, don't be scale-ist! ;)
Gracias,
Glenn
Who does 25 plus mm in skirmish, platoons; 1:300 SF (for now, 1:600 conversions on my "to do list" fer sure,) 1:600 aircraft, and 1:6,000 ships to keep the terrain simple.
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I want to sort of re-emphasize one of Steve's points: Utility. British, American, German, etc. troops are useful in most battles you will play, whereas the secondary powers will be useful only under certain circumstances.
As well, you can also use the main player's troops as stand-ins for the lesser armies. In a pinch, you can use Germans as allied Romanians or Hungarians, perhaps with a bit of converting (swapping some of those balkan fur hats for german caps for instance), British troops can stand in for Canadians or Aussies, and so forth.
Obviously it's not perfect and purists will balk, but you can see where the major factions represent not just economies of scale for the manufacturers, but also for players.
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Now, now, don't be scale-ist! ;)
Gracias,
Glenn
Who does 25 plus mm in skirmish, platoons; 1:300 SF (for now, 1:600 conversions on my "to do list" fer sure,) 1:600 aircraft, and 1:6,000 ships to keep the terrain simple.
Ouch... thats a new -ist that I havent heard of before, and being called one... now thats harsh! :D
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I would like to see some actual 28mm hungarians (I'm a hungarian as well :) ) so I can send them against my Lovecraft miniatures! :)
Hi, btw, this is my first post on the forum :)
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There are a lot of unproduced ranges. But I think sometimes it is better not to have these ranges than a bad try to do it with big head and hands. Some ranges can be substituted with other ranges, like special SS-Units. Sometimes you can take older periods, because the equipment never changed. And the Rest: Wait for their time, like the Range of LAF with their lovely PA-Range
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Greetings, Driller, you kinda slipped in here. :o
There is an introductions thread if you want to be more formal.. :D
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I think sometimes it is better not to have these ranges than a bad try to do it with big head and hands.
How true :)
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RifRaf Miniatures do WW2 Greeks in 28mm. As for the rest, well it's been covered.
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Very wealthy indeed especially when one considers the incredibly vast array of aircraft and vehicles that are available - what is more, to boot, is that many 20mm minis reflect greater detail and accuracy than their larger counterparts. It depends really on what sort of level of conflict one wants to recreate the larger the scale the smaller the engagement and for small skirmishes playing Hungarians and the like certainly has an appeal. I must further add that there does unfortunately exist a certain prejudice against 20mm when in many ways it is the perfect balance between size and detail and thus encompasses many of the advantages of both 15mm and 25/28mm.
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Ouch... thats a new -ist that I havent heard of before, and being called one... now thats harsh! :D
Here's pretty laid back and it was jest in fun. lol
On... another forum... which I no longer visit... it actually was a put-down. ??? :? ::)
Gracias,
Glenn
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Frontal Assault 15 - thanks for the tip on the greeks. Here's a link:
http://www.rifrafminiatures.co.uk/userimages/procart5.htm (http://www.rifrafminiatures.co.uk/userimages/procart5.htm)
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Hi
just an update on BURNS Miniatures.
the new pack should be out in two months, plus some changes to the first seven packs
G1: Officers (x3) telephone man(1) New
G2: NCO's (x4) 2 new
G3: Riflemen (x4)
G4: Riflemen with moustaches (x4)
G5: laying down Lmg teams (x2)
G6: Infantryman with Italian 45mm mortar plus (x2)
G7: Lebel VB Grenade Launchers (3) New. i might put the officer in cap in this pack?
G8: Artillery Team (4) New
G9: Standing LMG teams (x2 types of LMG's) New
G10: Riflemen Advancing (x4) New
G11: HMG team (New)
G12: 65mm Mountain Gun (1) New
Each Greek Infantry Rgm had two 65mm "infantry guns", actually WWI-era French Mle 06 mountain guns
G14: 75mm Field gun (1) New (Bulgarian 75mm Schneider M.1904 Greek army had 20 of these)
you can use a 37mm Pak 36 ATG
for other artillery
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=158435
I have seen all the figures producted from the masters, but I had to check for any casting problems
I am waiting for 10 of each one to be producted and sent to me for inspection so i can get the best 5 of each for the production moulds to be done next
I will paint up all models soon and show them here soon
Thanks
David Burns
PS I have started my next project 15mm and hope to let you know about it soon
It has taken two years to complete this range.
anything else you think i have missed let me know. PM me
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Sounds quite complete David, well done.
Cheers,
Helen
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Golgotha... the title of the post is... *drum roll*... "Where are all the 28mm Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Dutch, Norwegians...."
However, another question. Why on earth would 28mm hungarians all of a sudden get large hands and heads? I fail to see what this means, and how this ended up in the discussion, and above all, if the hungarians all of a sudden would be made, why, I really want to know this, would they recive large hands and heads? *Shakes head in confusion*
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There are a lot of unproduced ranges. But I think sometimes it is better not to have these ranges than a bad try to do it with big head and hands. Some ranges can be substituted with other ranges, like special SS-Units. Sometimes you can take older periods, because the equipment never changed. And the Rest: Wait for their time, like the Range of LAF with their lovely PA-Range
Um, not sure where this came from...
Looking at older lines in the 1970's/1980's that logic would have left some genres without miniatures...
Gracias,
Glenn
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i understand your point of view, still waiting for Warlord to release there New Italians.
My greeks are all produced at the master stage and hopefully be complete for the end of march.
I will paint up all the new ones to show.
David
Warlord are doing new WW2 Italians? Do you have any more details?
Cheers
James
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From the warlord forum
Re: Italian infantry WWII
by Paul @ Warlord Games » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:24 am
The Italians will be back very soon. We'll be adding to the range with vehicles and support weapons.
Cheers,
Paul
Re: Italian infantry WWII
by Paul @ Warlord Games » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:31 pm
Before Summer for sure.
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Cheers,
Paul
Paul @ Warlord GamesLegatus Posts: 2290Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:44 pm
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Just received my 1930s/ WW2 Slovak infantry from Emil Horky. Super nice figs sculpted by Paul Hicks:
http://www.horcata.eu/category/czechoslovak-infantry/
Buy Some! and he will be able to expand the range.
When I finish my mountain of US Marines, I'll get busy on these Bohunks and paint them up right!
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Time to make some Freikorps units fighting for the freedom of Sudetenland!