Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Korwin Miniatures on February 16, 2012, 07:41:03 PM
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My new modern minis are now available at:
www.kudargames.com/en/
(http://www.kudargames.com/img/40/200_200.jpg)
(http://www.kudargames.com/img/33/200_200.jpg)
(http://www.kudargames.com/img/22/200_200.jpg)
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Do you think making a figure of a naked Iraqi being held on a dog leash might be seen as a little insensitive if not simple bad taste?
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Not my cup of tea I am afraid :-[
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Good lord!
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Art often imitates life.
37mm though....they'd tower over my other stuff.
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That Lyndie England lookalike is certainly of debatable PCness, but I have yet to hear any complaints about 28mm Waffen SS troops by Victory Force etc., so let's not apply a double standard here. It's just a miniature and not a board-game version of Abu Ghraib.
There is no bad publicity ;)
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I am at work at the moment and for some reason ? both the pics on here and the web site are blocked no access ,but if the comment about the iraqi on a dog leash is definately out of order ,aand there is a bit of a difference between depicting a ss man and that. I think people might have the same reaction if some one did a ss man beating a naked death camp inmate . when I get home I will have a look and if I am wrong I will state so willingly but for the moment on what I have read I have made my opinion .
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That Lyndie England lookalike is certainly of debatable PCness, but I have yet to hear any complaints about 28mm Waffen SS troops by Victory Force etc., so let's not apply a double standard here. It's just a miniature and not a board-game version of Abu Ghraib.
There is no bad publicity ;)
There is you know. I wouldn't touch this manufacturer with a barge pole. Fair to say I probably wouldn't have purchased them anyway, they appear quite crude sculpts but that little vignette is beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned. For the record I have no interest in Waffen SS figures either.
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That Lyndie England lookalike is certainly of debatable PCness, but I have yet to hear any complaints about 28mm Waffen SS troops by Victory Force etc., so let's not apply a double standard here. It's just a miniature and not a board-game version of Abu Ghraib.
There is no bad publicity ;)
Tell that to Michael Jackson.
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If I could, I would tell him that he is still one of the best selling artists of all time and that the media echo after his death was positive by far and large. Of course it's hard to say wether he would have had even more success if he hadn't engaged in certain behaviorisms :)
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Why I sculpted Abu Ghraib model?
Every of us happily replay wars and have good fun. I want to remind that the source of our fun are wars which caused someone's else suffering. If that is making some of you feel uncomfortable, then reconsider your hobby.
In my gaming rules (KUDAR) defending your civilians is one of the ways to win the game (other way is to kill civilians of opponent). I didn't see to many wargaming rules on the market which have any role for civilians included.
So... like it or not. I see some thinks differently.
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I haven't been offended or upset by miniatures yet, and after viewing this page, I still haven't been.
But at 37 mm I have no use for them.
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Yes, I agree that in some conflicts the role of civilians is integral, yet largely ignored. Representing the role of civilians in games is also difficult and can easily offend another individual's sense of morality by its depiction... people find the level they are personally most comfortable with.
'Taste' therefore is subjective and down to the individual, which in this case will of course be represented in sales, or lack of, for that figure.
The figure being discussed has not been posted on here and on that basis, I would suggest that, if anyone feels strongly about figures in this range, or indeed any other range, on the grounds of taste, that they address it directly by PM or e-mail, or simply by not buying the figure(s) in question.
Keep calm and carry on... :)
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Fair enough, so can we talk about the size??
What do your figs look like standing next to other minis (Hasslefree, GW, etc)
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I don't think that it is unreasonable to express a negative opinion on a miniature in open forum, or indeed to discuss the morality of wargaming.
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Sorry, Jim. I respect your opinion and your role as a moderator and I agree that it's a matter of taste but arrant bollocks like that should not be left to stand.
In the first place the OP invited us to view his 'modern minis' and linked to his site.
Every of us happily replay wars and have good fun. I want to remind that the source of our fun are wars which caused someone's else suffering. If that is making some of you feel uncomfortable, then reconsider your hobby.
So unless I am prepared to consider buying a miniature that displays an historical scene in which a prisoner is illegally humiliated and tortured, I can't comprehend the awful consequences of war? That's odd, in my youth I seem to remember reading rules by folk like Brigadier Peter Young, a decorated veteran and I can't recall the dictum about needing a set of Gestapo torturers pulling the fingernails off some prisoner. Can't say I've noted many ranges of Auschwitz concentration camp guards either. We all look forward to the range of NKVD shooting Polish officers at Katyn. After all what would a WW2 game be without them?
I doubt there can be too many people on the planet under the age of 10 who haven't seen the images those minis refer to. It's certainly seared into my brain. Not sure why anyone thinks it would be a great idea to cast a miniature of something so bloody inhuman and then expect folk to buy it and spend hours priming, painting and basing it just to keep the notion of inhumanity in war alive in their head. That smacks of a rather after the fact justification. My own theory is that this is an epic fail in the 'cool mini or not stakes'.
In my gaming rules (KUDAR) defending your civilians is one of the ways to win the game (other way is to kill civilians of opponent). I didn't see to many wargaming rules on the market which have any role for civilians included.
Ah well, that explains it then..... Well actually it doesn't and given that this would appear to be a stand alone vignette, with no other compatible figures for that range, it seems even less likely as the real rationale.
Jim, I perfectly understand if you feel the need to delete or edit this post, in which case you can just let the following stand. 'The figures are shite'.
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Yes, I agree that in some conflicts the role of civilians is integral, yet largely ignored. Representing the role of civilians in games is also difficult and can easily offend another individual's sense of morality by its depiction... people find the level they are personally most comfortable with.
'Taste' therefore is subjective and down to the individual, which in this case will of course be represented in sales, or lack of, for that figure.
The figure being discussed has not been posted on here and on that basis, I would suggest that, if anyone feels strongly about figures in this range, or indeed any other range, on the grounds of taste, that they address it directly by PM or e-mail, or simply by not buying the figure(s) in question.
Keep calm and carry on... :)
The figures in question do not depict civilians. They depict a female soldier and a victim of abuse. We now know that many of these victims died from their injuries which were often inflicted in a sado sexual fashion. These are recent events that are still raw for many people and still prompting people to carry out suicide attacks. It is well known that such images are used by the recruiters. That's why I asked the poster if he felt it insensitive. It's nothing to do with whether I'm offended or not. I think it's simply a stupid thing to do or at least insensitive in the current climate. As for bad taste being subjective that's simply a cop out. And why shut down the discussion just because you do not like it. We are all adults and it's an interesting discussion to have. No doubt you will remove this post.
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Jim, I perfectly understand if you feel the need to delete or edit this post...
No doubt you will remove this post.
Short of the display of 'illegal material', I don't see editing/deleting someone's post as being part of my role, or indeed a right that I have.
And why shut down the discussion just because you do not like it.
It isn't a matter of whether I like it or not, indeed what I like and don't like shouldn't be a consideration if I'm to moderate this or any other board impartially. I also believe that expressing my personal opinions on a board that I also moderate is somehow wrong.
We are all adults and it's an interesting discussion to have.
I would agree, but this forum isn't the place for it.
I don't think that it is unreasonable to express a negative opinion on a miniature in open forum, or indeed to discuss the morality of wargaming.
It isn't an 'open forum', it's a privately owned forum, which members request to join, with a posted 'etiquette (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=16293.0)' which the owner would like us all to try and stick to as best as we can.
I like to think that myself and the other mods are fairly laid back in enforcing them though and that everyone gets a fair deal as a result.
I'll refer you all to sections; 1.3, 1.4, 2.2, 2.4
Please don't make me have to look them up again. :)