Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: CompanyB on January 14, 2008, 12:32:41 AM
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Hello all,
We'll my next "large" project is a 28mm German U-boat for WW2. I can't say who the client is, but you all can probably guess.
Anyway, I wanted a little feedback:
I was thinking of making this a modular piece. So you can pretty much make this a "game" piece, or go for broke, and make it as long and "to scale" as you want.
Initial top view plans here at 100% scale.
(http://homepage.mac.com/brentdietrich/Sub_Plans.jpg)
The conning tower will also be seperate. That way you will eventually have the choice of German, Japanese, or Generic Sub designs.
So does the modular idea make sense? or do folks prefer one large single casting?
The pieces would make a sub from 18 to 38 inches long. I suppose when the model become available, you would select the pieces you want, or get all of them as a big kit.
Regards,
Brent Dietrich
Company B
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What a fantastic idea. :)
Yes, modular is great. We can build all kinds of subs from such a set.
With the Conning tower available separately it would all us to model the sub in various stages of submersion.
Hopefully this is for a European or British company, so I won't have to pay intergalactic postage to get one. :)
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US company, sorry.
but we should have these with a distributor in the U.K.
Fo those that don't know already, all of our Company B products can be ordered direct in the UK (and at shows!) from The Wargames Command Post.
Final kit model will be resin, with metal pieces for the periscopes, railings, deck gun, AA gun, and some other fittings. Also have a rubber raft in the works to launch command raids!
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Modular is great if you want it just as a piece of terrain.
I like my stuff to be able to move about on the table if necessary, so would be less keen. I suppose one could glue it all together. How do think your design would stand up to that? Would it be too weak?
It seems to be the building blocks to make your own sub, so would it be totally generic, or would any of the bits (such as conning towers) be based on actual U-Boat designs?
Great idea, by the way.
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I like the idea very much.
If necessary the parts could always be connected by wire pinning or some rare earth magnets.
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The construction would include some sort of slot/notch idea, dovetailing, or
nested" ends to hide the connection seams.
That way you can leave them as it, bur moving the model can be done simply by grabbing both end and sliding around. Or, if you choose to glue it, the connection would have the extra strength to support itself.
It's possible to have the center section be a 16 inch long deck, with the conning tower separate. Then the only modular bits would be two lengths of spacers, and long and short versions of the stern and bow pieces.
Conning towers would very specifically be U-Boat, Japanese, etc. With enough space for a AA gun to be manned by a crew, and the Capt. or officers of course.
the main deck, will be based on a u-boat. I'm thinking that the center hull area will need to have about a 12 inch x 2 or 3 inch flat surface for game play. The spacers and the bow and stern pieces can reflect a bit more accuracy.
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The construction would include some sort of slot/notch idea, dovetailing, or
nested" ends to hide the connection seams.
That way you can leave them as it, bur moving the model can be done simply by grabbing both end and sliding around. Or, if you choose to glue it, the connection would have the extra strength to support itself.
It's possible to have the center section be a 16 inch long deck, with the conning tower separate. Then the only modular bits would be two lengths of spacers, and long and short versions of the stern and bow pieces.
Conning towers would very specifically be U-Boat, Japanese, etc. With enough space for a AA gun to be manned by a crew, and the Capt. or officers of course.
the main deck, will be based on a u-boat. I'm thinking that the center hull area will need to have about a 12 inch x 2 or 3 inch flat surface for game play. The spacers and the bow and stern pieces can reflect a bit more accuracy.
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Splendid idea - looking forward to seeing this one.
I don't see the sections being too much of a problem for movement if we use a "movement tray", same as some figure gamers use, possibly cut a template from 2mm MDF that's slightly larger than the sub and put some small waves around the edge (maybe a flexible bath sealant ?) to hold the sub in place. That way you could make a couple of different templates and use different versions as required.
The only real questions have to be - when's it coming out and how much will it cost ?
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This looks like a fantastic plan, and please tell Lon to bring prototype pictures to Cold Wars. 8)
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What a fantastic idea. :)
Hopefully this is for a European or British company, so I won't have to pay intergalactic postage to get one. :)
Clearly, you have not ordered from me in the US to quote such nonsense regarding postage. :wink:
While my webstore does overcalculate postage, my shipping info page makes it clear we adjust the postage once the package is weighed.
We ship about 20 parcels a week to the UK, Oz, Europe and Asia so we must be doing something right!
On to the sub.
The modular sub concept is an idea I had and further developed with Brent over the last year. Obviously he is is talented, as seen by his drawings and his modeling of the Model Ts and some of the tanks we offer.
The main issue is what size to concentrate on at first. My gut feeling is the modules to make a 25.5 inch long sub is the best starting place. In reality, a typical German ww2 sub would be 48+ inches long - quite impractical for most wargames and the ability to maneuver such a beast just makes it impractical.
Please let us know what you guys and gals think.
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Heh - I've assembled a similar beastie, and am painting it. But I compromised drastically by choosing 10mm scale, and still have to find the figures to go with it. I also opted out of the sectioned hull, and will use it as part of a scenario including a dock in which it is - well, docked, of course!
Would be lovely in 28mm, though.
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I have a very casual attitude to historical realism (gameability comes first), so this modular sub looks like an ace idea to me. I suppose I need to get one sooner or later, if I'm to game Polynesian-themed Pulp.
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Fantastic idea as we are planning something with a U-boat for the future. Just one question for a big piece like that: the price ?
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I have no problems with postage from the US, but have been caught before by Customs Duties when the parcel landed here - one parcel effectively doubled in price by VAT, import duties, admin charge (for Customs and Excise to open the parcel, check the contents and re-seal it), and admin charge for the Customs bill itself.
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I have no problems with postage from the US, but have been caught before by Customs Duties when the parcel landed here - one parcel effectively doubled in price by VAT, import duties, admin charge (for Customs and Excise to open the parcel, check the contents and re-seal it), and admin charge for the Customs bill itself.
email me.
most issues depend upon the service selected to ship the parcel.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for sharing your proposed plans for the U-Boat Brent. Great idea from Lon for suggesting the idea in the first place and one I'm sure will be very welcome in the gaming/collector community.
This would work well for a modular freighter too if I might be as bold too say here.
Mike Owen will need to work his magic to produce some exciting German sailors manning the deck and AA gun too. Can we at least see please for pulp/WW2 etc some German sailors in sailors caps. I love the sidecaps/helmets etc but it would not be Hollywood without some sailors in caps. 8)
Brent this would be a welcome shift away from the norm and one I'd see being very popular (especially as demos at conventions) given the flexibility you are facilating in designing the boat.
Best Wishes and good luck to all involved. :)
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Back on Pearl Harbor Day in 2006 Knoxville posted in the Workbench forum about his secret German Antarctic U-Boat base, but unfortunately the photo links don't seem to work anymore:
http://forum.backofbeyond.de/viewtopic.php?t=714&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Clearly, you have not ordered from me in the US to quote such nonsense regarding postage. :wink:
Strangely enough you were the only company that I thought this wouldn't be for, as you're the only people I know of that already has a cool sub model. :)
I'll be sure and check with you first before I have a panic about postage.
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Clearly, you have not ordered from me in the US to quote such nonsense regarding postage. :wink:
Strangely enough you were the only company that I thought this wouldn't be for, as you're the only people I know of that already has a cool sub model. :)
I'll be sure and check with you first before I have a panic about postage.
Well, the concept has been in the works for a while and I think we have settled on a good design. Now it is up to Brent.
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It's a good idea you have
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If you are going to have a U-Boat then you can't do without:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/Models/KOR48001.jpg)
I'd rather put my faith in a Fl-282, a more capable helicopter instead of that spindly thing :)
Then again I have the luxury of 1/72 so that helps.
Excellent idea with the modular sub.
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Thanks Wayswatcher :)
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Flettner-282/flettner.php
How about a FL 265:
http://sandlehobbies.com/plastickits/specialhobby/48/sh48004.html
Best Wishes[/img]
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Brent
I can tell you right now that I will be buying this. I already have the BG WWI U-Boat, and it's a fabulous piece.
One thing I'd like to point out here is that, at least in my mind, the U-Boat (which I'm presuming will be a waterline model) is more like a battle mat or a building than a vehicle. I don't see it as something meant to maneuver but rather a gun-platform or a static objective of some kind.
With that in mind, I would say that the modular approach is quite brilliant. I would suggest taking it one step further by adding modular weapons. There should be some fixed positions where I can choose to mount an MG and pop it on and off without gluing, and there should be a removable AA gun. Any other weapons configurations would make it even more versatile/playable (I don't know that much about U-Boats, so I'm not sure what the other options would be.) The key is to be able to change the weapon config from game to game--even if I just use a small spot of putty to attach those MGs as well.
Another point I would make is that this needs to be released in conjunction with crew. Releasing the sub and then stating that crew are on the way some time in the next 6 months would be a big, big mistake! Also, there needs to be enough flat space on the sub to mount the guns and the crew and the conning tower needs to have space for the figs as well. Presume the figs will be mounted on very small bases like a penny maybe. I want to be able to have a battle on the deck of the sub and for the conning tower. so if you need to make it a little flatter than it really would be I don't care.
When it comes to crew please include firing models for all guns. and machine gunners. There should also be a captain in a heavy coat with binos, perhaps a signalman, and maybe some crew with ropes. Here are some good photos of figs in another scale. It's a post from a modeling forum so just scroll down a bit to see the figs
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/842080/ShowPost.aspx
Also, please do shore party of Kriegsmarine as well who can make sorties from the sub etc. I can't stress again how important it is that there are crew figures available for the sub at the time it is released either bundled with the sub itself or as separate packs
In terms of extensibility, would it ever be possible to add lower decks to the sub or to do them as separate pieces? How cool would it be to be able to have the waterline model on one table and then the interior on a second table for boarding actions? Oh well, maybe take things one step at a time :) [/b]
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Actually some figures in a rubber launch boat would be really useful too...
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I like this idea. A movement tray would sort any moving problems so the modular design won't be a problem.
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Here is a link to U-Boats and I've linked to the A/A area.
http://www.uboat.net/technical/flak.htm
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I'll be making the assault raft first, so crew for that and the sub will actually be in progress while the sub is being worked on. I'd expect another WW2 Brigade crew for Germans and Japanese will be ready.
Also, Artizan has a nice U-boat crew as well. I might get a set of those for ref on the build.
Weapons will be started soon as well, so that we can fit them to the sub build.
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If you do do some crew, pretty please can we have some armed with MP28s rather than MP38/40s?
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The Artizan U-boat crew are stunning figures. They are pretty much "must have" figs for anyone interested in WW2 U-boats, so I think it would be a great idea to use them for reference.
I'd like to see some basic K98s for the shore party figs as the Artizan figs already have quite a lot of SMGs and the k98 would have been more common amongst the crew. I like the look of this Dragon doll, er, I mean "Action Figure"
http://www.dragonmodelsltd.com/html/70239.htm
Watched Das Boot for umpteenth time last night mainly because I was inspired by this project. We definitely need a figure with a signal lamp and maybe a couple in the Gorton's Fisherman hat >;D
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Must admit not seen the Artizan U Boat Crew and could not find them on their website
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They are in the Thrilling Tales section:
http://www.artizandesigns.com/catalogue.asp?sub_range=21
I was looking at them just now. I may well nab the Kaleu for my Great War U-Boat. File the eagle off his hat and replace it with another cockade and he'll do, I reckon.
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I'll be making the assault raft first, so crew for that and the sub will actually be in progress while the sub is being worked on. I'd expect another WW2 Brigade crew for Germans and Japanese will be ready.
Also, Artizan has a nice U-boat crew as well. I might get a set of those for ref on the build.
Weapons will be started soon as well, so that we can fit them to the sub build.
Hi Brent, you really have two sets of crew to work with. Lon's excellent "Ends of the Earth" U-Boat Crew designed by Mr Richard Ansell and of late, Mike Owen's super U-Boat crew.
Both ranges will serve well for the adventurer out there. 8)
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They are in the Thrilling Tales section:
http://www.artizandesigns.com/catalogue.asp?sub_range=21
I was looking at them just now. I may well nab the Kaleu for my Great War U-Boat. File the eagle off his hat and replace it with another cockade and he'll do, I reckon.
Thanks :) . Going to be hard to resist buying them. Hoening and Bernard could be used for WW I or inter-war.
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I would have said that Bernhard needs a headswap to work for the Great War. U-boat men wore traditional sailors hats then, rather than the forage cap style that came in later on.
The way Werner is holding his gun makes me think it would be easily removed and could be replaced with a Luger or a C96. So he's a candidate.
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Agreed. I think Werner is my favorite of the bunch, although I like alll of them. By the way some good WW I uniform info here:
http://www.forum.uniforminsignia.net/viewtopic.php?t=2250&sid=3572671192e92734bda92675cfcff72a
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Good link. Thanks, mate.
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Great Link - many thanks for sharing. 8)
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Cheers for the link.
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Hi Folks,
My friend Holger from Germany sent me a link to ship/boat plans of which some are in 1/50th scale.
http://www.christian-schmidt-fachbuchhandlung.de/default.php?cPath=90&osCsid=74d2661d21594e1b01f471faed01ee40
In addition to U-Boat plans for both wars there are two sets of plans for both the Graf Goetzen (East-Africa) and Iltis - gunboat(Tsingtau) for WW1.
Other interesting boat plans including a German fishing boat used in Norwegian waters in WW2. I think Peder would be interested in this one.
Cheers :)
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This is very welcome for us "Pulp" Adventurers. I like the modular design, too bad there couldn't be anylift off compartments to reveal the control room underneath or the secert bomb that was being delivered to the saboteurs.
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Just a few pics and links on deck guns etc for WW1 and beyond:
WW1+ WW2
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/88cmL30.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/88cmL30collapsiblemounting.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/WNGER_5cm-40_skc93_pic.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/KL45U1171918.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/105cm45SKC32TypeIXUBoat.jpg)
AA used on U Boats
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/WNGER_37mm-69_mk42_U-995_pic.jpg)
The C/38 was also produced in very sophisticated twin mount for U-boats. These were able to withstand a 550 foot (200 m) diving depth.
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/WNGER_20mm-65_c30_bag_pic.jpg)[/img]
Link:
http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_Main.htm
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Nice pictures Helen, thank you!
Please be sure to fwd them to our mutual friend, Mr. Broadbent...as he will be sculpting the 8.8 cm gun as well as the flak for the Sub!
I have the hull and conning tower roughed out. Just need to sand them down and prep them for the detail and decking.
-Brent
CompanyB
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Nice pictures Helen, thank you!
Please be sure to fwd them to our mutual friend, Mr. Broadbent...as he will be sculpting the 8.8 cm gun as well as the flak for the Sub!
I have the hull and conning tower roughed out. Just need to sand them down and prep them for the detail and decking.
-Brent
CompanyB
Hi Brent,
Thanks for your kind words. I'm speculating you are looking at around WW2 so the deck gun you will need is this one being the 8.8cm. I'm also thinking that its the 2cm Flak single barrel in addition.
Please let me know. :)
Heres a link talking about deck guns
http://www.uboat.net/technical/guns.htm
(http://[img]http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/WNGER_88mm-45_skc35.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/WNGER_88mm-45_skc35_U570_pic.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/88cmL45SKC35DeckGunU47.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/S5S10.jpg)
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/S5-S09-04.jpg)
[/img]
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some possibly useful links. The second is particularly good for persionalising your U-Boat:
http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-deck-gun.shtml
http://www.uboataces.com/ref-insignia.shtml
http://www.uboatwar.net/pages/uboattypes.htm
http://www.uboatarchive.net/
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(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/88cmL30collapsiblemounting.jpg)
Was ist das? A collapsible mounting? :?:
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(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/HelenBachaus/U%20Boat%20Deck%20Guns/88cmL30collapsiblemounting.jpg)
Was ist das? A collapsible mounting? :?:
Hi Pete
That is correct 8)
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Hi Folks,
I found this link on Sub Art:
http://www.subart.net/
Please enjoy 8)
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Any progress on the construction work ?
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yes they are making progress on the sub and the guns.
The first crew pack is being master molded.
More to come...