Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: abdul666lw on April 14, 2012, 08:58:05 PM
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The question of Lace Wars female soldiers figurines is really a *vicious circle*. Given the quasi-absence of miniatures very few players field a female regiment; then, since they don't appear on the web, in conventions... manufacturers doubt they represent a growth market and decline to invest.
And yet there *is* a market -not of the scale of the historical types offered e.g. by recent initiatives such as Minden Miniatures, but certainly larger than that of the Eureka SYW Teddy Bears. So much the more as, not only are most Imagi-Native players willing to add a 'Maiden Guard' to their force, but 'female marines' can appear in 'pirates' games: and pirates players are an open-minded bunch, their pirates often meeting dinosaurs, King Kong, Deep Ones and zombies.
Nothing really in 15mm and 'Soldadets' had to convert WSS male types: with their baggy coats and given the scale he obtained very satisfying results. http://soldadets.blogspot.fr/2011/03/regiment-femeni.html (http://soldadets.blogspot.fr/2011/03/regiment-femeni.html)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p5pHRdUKumc/TzrhTaN_deI/AAAAAAAADFI/ES9rCSItW8M/s800/1713_IR09_Fiona_McGregor.jpg)
In 28mm there IS a very good, if limited (no mounted versions, chiefly) range, the Eureka 'Sandras' http://www.chronofus.net/wargames/eureka/sandra/index.htm (http://www.chronofus.net/wargames/eureka/sandra/index.htm)
(http://www.chronofus.net/wargames/eureka/Dscn0011.jpg)
(http://www.chronofus.net/wargames/eureka/sandra/commandfront.jpg)
But it is kept obscure, absent from the manufacturer site and thus practically ignored; its diffusion remains confidential and local, of the handful of Imagi-Nation builders I know to use a Sandra regiment at least 3 are Australians.
(To be complete Shadowforge has the 'Lady Jane's Rifles', but they are in Late French Revolution / Early Napoleonic bicornes; and, chiefly, they are *hideous*: the sculpting is far below the usual Shadowforge standard, and with their baggy gaiters they look like suffering elephantiasis.)
Now the femininity of the Sandras is very subdued: specially for the infantry (with the coat on) nobody seeing them from more than a foot could imagine they are not men (even the variant tempting to lure us to navel wargaming, if painted with a shirt, would pass unnoticed). To the point that an Imagi-Nation ruler having received a few posted on his blog the first painted one without having noticed she was a girl.
But wargamers -adults playing with toy soldiers- are generally young at least in heart and mind ;); specially the 'imagi-native' ones, of course. Thus I'm sure most of them would appreciate more... obviously feminine female soldiers.
Uniform suggestion:
- lace-edged tricorne (feathered, at least for the officer?): they have to look glamorous;
- short coat (re. Black Scorpion Marines (http://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/images/PIR_PIR10_1.jpg) or even slightly shorter) tight-fitting, narrow waisted;
- instead of a waistcoat a topless corsage worn over a shirt with a generous cleavage: as featured in the traditional Bavarian Dirndl worn e.g. for the Oktoberfest, Google for images or search Youtube for videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4q0LN082eI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4q0LN082eI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7VsmxMoaUA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7VsmxMoaUA)
(http://www.inside-munich.com/image-files/dirndl-for-sale.jpg)
(https://d27fcql9yjk2c0.cloudfront.net/assets/370590/lightbox/35b23a84c25a575fc45212f60c93af92.jpg)
combined with:
(http://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/images/coverweblr.jpg)
Perhaps not the easiest detail to sculpt and paint, the blouse should be edged with a lot of doily lace: it was the time of the Lace Wars http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=262215 (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=262215)
- very high thigh boots: less 'historically accurate' and practical than gaiters or dragoon bottines, but is it really a problem here? An objective advantage of boots would be that walking and riding variants would wear exactly the same uniform, making them dragoons: then, all foot types could be duplicated mounted, drummer included (I know, historically dragoons had oboeists rather than fifers: but then, what about a bagpiper instead? With the goat head still attached to the bag to be more spectacular -yes, there are historical 18th C. precedents).
When Soldadets raised his female regiment http://what-if-catalonia.blogspot.fr/2010/09/oddest-commission.html (http://what-if-catalonia.blogspot.fr/2010/09/oddest-commission.html) he initially planned to convert Blue Moon Shivan Sisterhood (with high boots) but they are 18mm.
(&, btw, to have all minis duplicated on foot and mounted would be precious, not only for 'battle' games but for 'individual adventures': for a time miniature 'adventurers' for D&D were systematically offered in the two variants.)
Specially in such a case it must not be forgotten that wargaming minis are intended, not to be scrutinized individually, but to be seen en masse from a distance: thus, the most distinguishing features are to be... emphasized :D
(http://tinminis.com/Delia2010.jpg)
Now, no miniature in such uniform exists as yet: maybe posting corresponding template :-* on NBA http://nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.fr/ (http://nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.fr/) would arouse so many positive reactions that an enterprising manufacturer would decide to take the plunge?
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I have $10k of money sitting in reserve waiting for for Eureka to do the cavalry and other figures I want for the rest of my Sandra figures in 28mm. I don't have much say in what happens and I can't really go elsewhere to have them made. The infantry were released in January 2004, the artillery in August. My requirements for Sandra were to be subtle feminine and more 'historical/logical' than Hollywood. I do use some of the female pirates as well which are more bust out than in. If I could sculpt or modify figures I would spent endless weekends making variants :)
I don't do 15mm, else I would consider going into a pool group to have a range done.
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Regarding the Sandras, the easiest / least investment requiring way for Eureka to start expanding the range would be to make variants of the infantry in riding pose (Eureka already has suitable horses). This would make the Sandras dragoons and they were (re. Maurice de Saxe's Rêveries) seen as 'Jack of all trades' able to fulfill many different roles: mounted line infantry, light troops, 'commandos', cheap heavy Horse...: thus the minis could fit any niche in an Imagi-Nation army. Besides, for Petite Guerre / skirmish games (such as e.g. the episodes of the never ending struggle between Lady Pettygree and Milady de Winter played by Bill Protz and D.A.F. http://campaignsingermania.blogspot.fr/search?q=pettygree (http://campaignsingermania.blogspot.fr/search?q=pettygree)) players would appreciate to be allowed to dismount the Maiden Guard during the game (e.g. started as a mounted escort, dismounts to fight in buildings or difficult terrain, remounts for the pursuit... as can now be done with the 'Victorian' Hinterland Husarinnen).
[Eureka / manufacturers take note: these two veteran wargamers are reminders that 18th C. players are an open-minded bunch, even die-hard 'historical' among them make forays in imaginative territory , potential buyers of 'fictional' minis are not restricted to builders of Imagi-Nations.]
Several rather small recent manufacturers produce lovely female minis: Banelords, Guild of Harmony, Kabuki, Kingdom Death, Raging Heroes, Vesper-on (Carnevale) to name a few. But Eureka proved long ago with their 'Pirate Lady' figurines (some also sold by Irregular) -the 'root' of the Sandras- to have a sculptor gifted to render lovely women and cute feminine faces.
(http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/images5/Irregular%2025mm%20Pirates%20008front2.jpg)
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For Imagi-Nation builders (or 'Historicals' tempted by a little 'unhistoricity') playing in 1/72 , the equivalent of the Sandras just appeared:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UhE8xPOq_Q8/T3asgiPzznI/AAAAAAAAApY/poa45sB1G7U/s1600/Female+Napoleonics.jpg)
from http://www.cw-toys.de/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=18&Itemid=55&limitstart=10 (http://www.cw-toys.de/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=18&Itemid=55&limitstart=10) (why are they called 'Napoleonic' I simply can't understand, they are obviously 'Lacy')
And, yes, Imagi-Nations can field 1/72 inexpensive armies: Fromagere http://princelupus.blogspot.fr/search/label/imagiNation (http://princelupus.blogspot.fr/search/label/imagiNation), Frundsberg http://frundsbergfs.blogspot.fr/ (http://frundsbergfs.blogspot.fr/), Lagerburg-Slobbovia http://lagerburgduchy.blogspot.fr/ (http://lagerburgduchy.blogspot.fr/) for instance.
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Nice find.
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Very nice models indeed, its a pity they are 1/72, I would have loved them in 28mm. Overall, I wish there where more historical female miniatures, be it civilians or in uniform, I would love to see more.
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I have some of the Countess Sandra figures, I like them quite a bit. They're on my 'to-do soon' list.
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Seemingly the Sandras *can* be obtained somehow ???
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Seemingly the Sandras *can* be obtained somehow ???
There's no problem getting them at all- just email Eureka Miniatures. I got mine from the USA branch of the company.
Without doubt one of the best companies regarding customer service and communication. I love Eureka.
Why they've not been released officially, I don't know. I feel like I heard that they're either re-doing them or expanding the line.
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I have $10k of money sitting in reserve waiting for Eureka to do the cavalry and other figures I want for the rest of my Sandra figures in 28mm.
Sounds to me like you have enough cash to comission and then sell your own ladies in lace.
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And should this thread get large enough it would make for an easier sell
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I love Eureka.
Why they've not been released officially, I don't know. I feel like I heard that they're either re-doing them or expanding the line.
If they are re-doing them, then they should hear about Abdul666lw's comments.
I think he is the expert in the subject!
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As it is, the range is quite satisfying but essentially lacks mounted variants.
Hope that, if the thread here and posts elsewhere reveal enough interest / potential buyers, Eureka will consider this rather simple way to expand the range (they already have suitable horses) and make it more readily available: turning from a vicious circle to a snowball effect.
@ argsilverson: as it happens, I still have other ideas / suggestions (more for skirmishes / pirates / swashbuckling / Lacepulp / Lacepunk games than pitched battles) for 3 'characters' / female heroes (heroines scream and have to be rescued):
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=26308.msg475373#msg475373 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=26308.msg475373#msg475373)
An 'adventuress', a quasi-elvish Assassin and a 'Pirette captain'.
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Indeed The Eureka100 Club has 3 'projects':
Lace Wars Female Imagination Infantry: http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11714 (http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11714)
Lace Wars Female Imagination Cavalry: http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11715 (http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11715)
Lace Wars Female Imagination Artillery: http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11716 (http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_88_95&products_id=11716)
Hopefully still in 28mm: even if it makes them slightly smaller than, say, Minden miniatures, all the better, women are on the average more petite than men.
If these come to fruition, ideally Eureka would still keep offering the traditional Sandras (completed with riding variants): a manufacturer launching a line of SYW Prussian fusiliers does not withdraw the SYW Prussian musketiers he was already producing! 'Improved' and 'traditional' Sandras would play complementary parts, e.g. Guard / Line vs Militia / Light troops if the 'new' Sandras are more glamorous.
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If the new plastic '1/72 semi Sandras' from Germany http://www.cw-toys.de/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=18&Itemid=55&limitstart=10 (http://www.cw-toys.de/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=18&Itemid=55&limitstart=10) are actually 'large' 23mm (almost 25mm), women on the average are more petite than men, put on thick bases they could appear in a 28mm army? A princess' Nubile Guard / Brünhildjugend? True 'maiden', these, hopefully!
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/chifung_ddd/04091.jpg)
(posted at Paul's bods TMP link (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=264713&page=1)
link (http://paulsbods.blogspot.de/2012/04/arabic-citizens-executioners-napoleonic.html))
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Despite the manufacturer name, 3D printing is not involved in the production, so no hope to have them scaled up to 28mm :-X
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Hi
A few pics of my efforts, I should take more, they have been finished for a while. You get the general idea tho.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/paintpig/shiny%20wash%20and%20glaze/RauGuard3.jpg)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/paintpig/shiny%20wash%20and%20glaze/RauGuard1.jpg)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/paintpig/shiny%20wash%20and%20glaze/artcrew6.jpg)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n621/paintpig/shiny%20wash%20and%20glaze/artcrew4.jpg)
regards
dave
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Nicely done, I'll have to photograph some more of mine and get my flags printed.
The 1/72 figures are cute but something looks out of proportion, which wouldn't stop me buying them if I could paint that small and played that scale.
I could be tempted to commission a few skirmishing light types like your pirate example, but I have no idea where to start with decent sculptors.
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Nicely done, I'll have to photograph some more of mine and get my flags printed.
The 1/72 figures are cute but something looks out of proportion, which wouldn't stop me buying them if I could paint that small and played that scale.
I could be tempted to commission a few skirmishing light types like your pirate example, but I have no idea where to start with decent sculptors.
I find trying to deal with the various sculptors very anoyin and time consuming as well.