Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Mr. White on January 27, 2008, 06:16:54 PM
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So, I played my first game of Legends of the Old West last night. Awesome.
I really liked how streamlined the system was. I was able to teach two brand new minis players and we were able to have a great game.
I understand LotOW is based on the LotR ruleset. At some point, I expect I'll be moving back into fantasy gaming (I've already asked about Battle for Skull Pass).
So, what's the state of the LotR game? Is it going to be around for awhile? Is the Mines of Moria a good buy? Where do you go from there? Most importantly, is it a feasible game to get into if I'll be the main supplier (this ruled out warhammer)?
Thanks!
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The Moris set is a good starter as the scenarios in there build up in stages so you learn different parts of the rules gradually. Even the box itself is useful as it's just the right size for the footprint of the gaming area.
Once you're up to speed with the rules, the best way to progress is to decide which force you like the look of and see if you can get one of the £50 battlehost sets as they are excellent value for money. There are an increasing amount of scource books which give different army variants as well as scenarios to play in (I think the scenarios are better than head to head battles...)
GW are committed to the LOTR game and it'll be supported for years yet - it's one of their core games now and it's still surprisingly popular.
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I definitely like tha game basics of GW LotR. They charge you too much for too little, as is their way, but that is another dead horse thoroughly and habitually flogged.
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It's a popular game because it does a lot of things right! I was incredibly impressed with it when it came out - and I think Warhammer Fantasy is the poorer for not using it as the rules engine for that setting.
Ask your FLGS if they can get some of the old movie sets from their distributor. While the older rulebooks won't have complete army lists, they will have the basic mechanics in it. Some distributors were swimming in old boxes and selling them for a song. Still, it'll be something you have to ask the manager about.
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GW are committed to the LOTR game and it'll be supported for years yet
See, here's the problem I'm having, the problem that's kept me from taking up LotR (not that I have time for another project anyway...). "For years yet" still sounds too finite. I don't want to take up a game that sounds like it's producers might drop it in the foreseeable future. Every time I start being lured into this game, I get into the "Will they drop it or not?" conundrum. I'm always happy to see GW release something new for the game, because it means they're still supporting it - but only for now.
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The core rulebooks are solid, and the miniatures will slosh around the secondary markets for years. I'm of the opinion that you can't own too many rulebooks anyway.
I'm not certain if I'm saying "buy the game" but it sure sounds like I am. :?:
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GW are committed to the LOTR game and it'll be supported for years yet
See, here's the problem I'm having, the problem that's kept me from taking up LotR (not that I have time for another project anyway...). "For years yet" still sounds too finite. I don't want to take up a game that sounds like it's producers might drop it in the foreseeable future. Every time I start being lured into this game, I get into the "Will they drop it or not?" conundrum. I'm always happy to see GW release something new for the game, because it means they're still supporting it - but only for now.
I think all miniature and game companies are dedicated to their systems "for now". It's just that GW's for some reason been put against the wall on this and have been obliged to actualy say the words.
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This is different. In this case, that "some reason" is the fact GW relies on several licenses from third parties to be allowed to sell this game.
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I like this game, because i can play with only 5 or10 miniature or with 100, and having always the same rules.
(http://storage.canalblog.com/97/95/394022/21534632_p.jpg)
A vidéo to a big battle
(http://bobouest.canalblog.com/archives/2007/12/28/index.html)
Chien sauvage
PS sorry for the dead link, now it s good :oops:
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It's a popular game because it does a lot of things right! I was incredibly impressed with it when it came out - and I think Warhammer Fantasy is the poorer for not using it as the rules engine for that setting.
Ask your FLGS if they can get some of the old movie sets from their distributor. While the older rulebooks won't have complete army lists, they will have the basic mechanics in it. Some distributors were swimming in old boxes and selling them for a song. Still, it'll be something you have to ask the manager about.
I agree, I was suckered into the game with the release of the Two Towers and bigger battles. The rules are pretty good. I did sell off my figures though as its popularity died in the games club. You should be able to pick up minis and the rule books pretty darn cheap on e-bay as certianly in the UK is was on retail sales across the country in local games shops and even WHSmith. That and a periodical magazine was released with figures attached each week.
I have used the rules for lots of dirrerent games and enjoy the LOTOW etc game immensley
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LOTR is possibly my favorite wargame.
The rules system is simple enough to have a few games in an evening but you can also make things pretty in depth aswell.
I have several forces, currently working on a 500pt dwarf army. makes a change from Minas Tirith! I love the LOTR miniature line, more of a fan of the plastics than the metals. which is handy considering you only really need a box of 24 plastics and a metal hero for around 300pts.
Im also using a modified LOTR ruleset from a yahoo group for Samurai skirmish - Very Cool....
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And for bigger battles, I'm pretty sure you could adapt the LotOW-Alamo rules for fighting with units (to speed things up a bit). I'm definitely goiing to try that option in the near future!
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@ Chien: Nice terrain, there, btw!
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And for bigger battles, I'm pretty sure you could adapt the LotOW-Alamo rules for fighting with units (to speed things up a bit). I'm definitely goiing to try that option in the near future!
There has been an unofficial "large-scale" adaptation called "War In Middle Earth" done by some of the chaps here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/GW_MiddleEarth/
You need to join the group, but if you are into LotR gaming, it's worth it.
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Will check that out, thanks! 8)
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Lotr is a great game, and is my primary form of skirmish at the moment. Quite a lot of the mini range is incredibly amazing, and the ruleset is incredibly easy to pick up. The plastics have also been going through some amazing development - the rangers sprue is one of the best I've seen (much better than the elves anyhow) and the new knights and harad supplement have some interesting minis.
If you are planning on going further with Mines of Moria, I suggest you find yourself a copy of Legions of Middle Earth or one of the supplements which are generally tailored to a specific faction.
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I love this game! It is the only fantasy game that I play and I wish I had more time for it. Our local (Arizona) game group has a LOTR tourny coming up this month and I am working hard (hardly working really) to get ready for it.
I would say that this is a VERY safe game to get into. THe investment that GW has made for plastic tooling means they are planning to produce it for a long time. Even if the lic issue come up New Line will be happy to sell all the stuff to someone else to make. As for the core rules, GW owns this and they can keep printing the rules as long as they want (if they loose the lic then they will just need to remove all the movie specific referecens and images).
I say jump in and have fun. I am even looking at using LOTR rules for Mordheim (I love the Mordhiem setting but hate the game) using any fantasy figures the players want to use. This would be a chance to use all thos funky Foundry Orcs I have been collecting.
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What I particularly like about the game is the design of (most of) the miniatures. They have a very elegant style unlike the more clumsy looking Warhammer miniatures (which I like , too, but for different reasons).
I like the way the game works for small groups composed of characters. That's the strength of the game. It's a story telling kind of mechanism.
However, I'm starting to get worried about the direction the game has taken: it's getting too big for my taste (from an economic point of view very neccesary). All these extra and special troops appearing now are starting to get on my nerves. I really detest the Gondorian auxiliary troops. According to the book they are some kind of militia, not some elite units.
The same holds true for the new Haradrim troops. Of course that's only my personal feeling.
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What I particularly like about the game is the design of (most of) the miniatures. They have a very elegant style unlike the more clumsy looking Warhammer miniatures (which I like , too, but for different reasons).
I like the way the game works for small groups composed of characters. That's the strength of the game. It's a story telling kind of mechanism.
However, I'm starting to get worried about the direction the game has taken: it's getting too big for my taste (from an economic point of view very neccesary). All these extra and special troops appearing now are starting to get on my nerves. I really detest the Gondorian auxiliary troops. According to the book they are some kind of militia, not some elite units.
The same holds true for the new Haradrim troops. Of course that's only my personal feeling.
Yep, the Evil side now has way too many superheroes, rather than the massed hordes with a few really tough guys they mostly rely on in the book.
Keeps the Munchkins happy, i suppose.
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Would also have the feeling that with a few new movies coming out, that GW could pick up those liscences as well, and supply new material for them.
(few new movies, say that 5 times quickly)
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Would also have the feeling that with a few new movies coming out, that GW could pick up those liscences as well, and supply new material for them.
(few new movies, say that 5 times quickly)
I would certainly hope they will pick up the licence for the Hobbit films,
but who knows if their financial situation will be up to it?
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They've covered most of The Hobbit with minis already.
A box of "Dwarf Rangers", in which you get 12 different (of 24 total) Dwarves in cloaks.
Bilbo, holding The Ring in one hand and a book in the other.
Goblins and Trolls, these have been out for a long time with many variants.
Spiders and Elves, there are some in their Mirkwood range.
Gandalf the Grey, Gollum, Elrond Halfelven, lots of versions of each.
Smaug, there is a a Dragon model that came out the same time as the Dwarves.
Most of these you can find equally nice models either at the same price or cheaper from other suppliers. But those Dwarves are a good deal.
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They've covered most of The Hobbit with minis already.
A box of "Dwarf Rangers", in which you get 12 different (of 24 total) Dwarves in cloaks.
Bilbo, holding The Ring in one hand and a book in the other.
Goblins and Trolls, these have been out for a long time with many variants.
Spiders and Elves, there are some in their Mirkwood range.
Gandalf the Grey, Gollum, Elrond Halfelven, lots of versions of each.
Smaug, there is a a Dragon model that came out the same time as the Dwarves.
Most of these you can find equally nice models either at the same price or cheaper from other suppliers. But those Dwarves are a good deal.
Quite true, of course - I have the Dwarf "Rangers" and have already sorted the most appropriate of them into Balin's band. Just need to fit them into the painting schedule and remember where I put their painting details. I suppose I could always re-read the Hobbit again :lol:
The only two that really need specific models are a younger, more adventurous looking Bilbo & a proper "Smaug" [the one they do doesn't fit the bill IMO]. Also, a fat dwarf for Bombur would be nice. Oh and possibly Beorn in his two shapes. Vendel's is very good, the bear is fantastic but their Beorn is a bit large in man-shape.
As you say, there are plenty of cheaper non-GW figures that would do....... it's just that I really love their LOTR range [well most of them] :)
Also, one of the rumours circulating is that, as they are making The Hobbit in two parts, a lot of the films will be background [and maybe prequel] stuff outlined in the LOTR, due to the fact that it's really quite a simple story. There could obviously be a wealth of new characters etc in the offing.......
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As you say, there are plenty of cheaper non-GW figures that would do....... it's just that I really love their LOTR range [well most of them] :)
They are the best thing GW has going at the moment. Great game with nice models. Also some nice variants from Warhammer Historical.
Also, one of the rumours circulating is that, as they are making The Hobbit in two parts, a lot of the films will be background [and maybe prequel] stuff outlined in the LOTR, due to the fact that it's really quite a simple story. There could obviously be a wealth of new characters etc in the offing.......
I'd heard about this two movies thing. Not sure about that.
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Would also have the feeling that with a few new movies coming out, that GW could pick up those liscences as well, and supply new material for them.
(few new movies, say that 5 times quickly)
I would certainly hope they will pick up the licence for the Hobbit films,
but who knows if their financial situation will be up to it?
Well, there's few other companies that I know of with the same financial backing and 'reach' as GW. Teh only other one I can think of is Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro?). Plus GW have established a look which gamers are used to. So from Tolkien Enterprizes and New line's perspective I think a miniature deal works in both directions.
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Well, there's few other companies that I know of with the same financial backing and 'reach' as GW. Teh only other one I can think of is Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro?). Plus GW have established a look which gamers are used to. So from Tolkien Enterprizes and New line's perspective I think a miniature deal works in both directions.
GW are in a bad way these days. The lost £11,000,000 last year and are dropping staff and having stores open limited hours.
Any company that didn't loose 11 million quid last year is making more money than GW.
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I suppose the Hobbit film might see a relaunch of their "Battle of the 5 armies" range.
Thinking of the Hobbit.... since trolls turn to stone in sunlight, my question is, how do Harad (notoriously hot sunny climate) get half-trolls ?
On that thought, half-troll & half...what else ?
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...half-sunblock factor 89
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The movie "A Passion in the Desert" comes to mind, according to which bedouins are immensely fearful of caves. Perhaps a throwback to the days of Harad when every cave had a troll in it? :)
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...half-sunblock factor 89
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Apparently Tolkien had mentioned that Saruman had bred te Uruk Hai to withstand sunlight better than other orcs, and if I am not mistaken Sauron had done something similar with trolls.
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...half-sunblock factor 89
:)
I can just imagine now a bunch of desert folk nervously spreading sunblock over the Troll.
'Now sit still or you're going to burn'
Didn't Sauron summon a great shadow, a cloud or other darkness to protect the Orcs as they attacked Gondor?
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Imagine the stench of blood, gore coconut oil, aloe vera and more than twenty other remedial anti-ageing herbs and balms on the battle field.
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Maybe they all wear sunhats, I haven't seen the figures yet.
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...half-sunblock factor 89
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Apparently Tolkien had mentioned that Saruman had bred te Uruk Hai to withstand sunlight better than other orcs, and if I am not mistaken Sauron had done something similar with trolls.
One thing that puzzles me from the first day I've read the fellowship of the ring is -> How many pints of lager did Saruman had to pay to that orc lady? ....
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...half-sunblock factor 89
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Apparently Tolkien had mentioned that Saruman had bred te Uruk Hai to withstand sunlight better than other orcs, and if I am not mistaken Sauron had done something similar with trolls.
One thing that puzzles me from the first day I've read the fellowship of the ring is -> How many pints of lager did Saruman had to pay to that orc lady? ....
The going rate for the Orc Ladies that live in Dudley is 1 pint & a chicken tikka ..... or so I've been told.
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I suppose the Hobbit film might see a relaunch of their "Battle of the 5 armies" range.
Thinking of the Hobbit.... since trolls turn to stone in sunlight, my question is, how do Harad (notoriously hot sunny climate) get half-trolls ?
On that thought, half-troll & half...what else ?
Half-trolls are mentioned in the Return of the King. During the battle on the Pelenor Fields the half-trolls are said to be fighting alongside the people of Khand (the Variags). Nothing is said about their ancestors. However, they might have been a prototype for the Olog-hai Sauron was breeding. Maybe a first field testing released in the mountains seperating Mordor from Harad.
I've always accepted them as showing how evil these Variags really are.
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There are several types of trolls that Tolkien mentions in passing. Apparently only Stone Trolls are petrified by sunlight.
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Other Trolls (and Orcs as well) fight poorly in the sunlight, but they don't turn to stone.
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Ah lovely! A semantic Tolkien discussion!
I don't think the half-trolls mentioned were actual half trolls but rather a equatorial tribe of large dark skinned men looking like what the beholder thought a half troll would look like. Don't forget that the books are written with a distinct mid 20th century and Western Europen slant.
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...don't think the half-trolls ... were actual half trolls but rather a equatorial tribe of large dark skinned men....
Ah, so not actual trolls, just ugly foeigners.
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I prefer the idea that half-trolls are just that.
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Just had a look in the index and the Variags are only mentioned twice according to that.
"But Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."
Notice it says like half-trolls.
"East rode the Knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: Troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight."
It might mention half-trolls in other places, but that's the only time they are mentioned in the same place as Variags. Not a whole lot to go on. The first is clearly just a comparison, and there is no explanation whatever of the second, which is "troll-men" and not "half-trolls" anyway. That's not much to build a range of figures on, but GW don't care about that. Hell, we don't even know what Variags are. Tolkien never describes them. They may not even be men, despite how GW have sculpted them.
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...don't think the half-trolls ... were actual half trolls but rather a equatorial tribe of large dark skinned men....
Ah, so not actual trolls, just ugly foeigners.
In fact, I think I woke up next to a half-troll once.
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You know, I've been trying to get rid of my LotR stuff for a while now. I would love to play with them, as the rules are some of my favorite too, but I just haven't the time to do much lately.
http://www.conquestminiatures.com/sale.htm
Cheers
-Eric
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I sold all my stuff off after the movies faded into memory or rather the bargain shelf at Tesco, and think everyone else sold off their collectins at the same time. A shame as the mins are nice
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"But Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."
I knew it! Those 'Mahûd' (silly name) of Far Harad should be negroid. Been planning to paint them very dark all along (I'm still collecting and gaming in ME).
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Just had a look in the index and the Variags are only mentioned twice according to that.
"But Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."
I always thought that Variags were another kind of creature, not a tribe of men... The approach of GW is not bad, maybe too risky to play that way with non-fully-written-ideas of Tolkien.
And I agree with all of you in that Mahud should be black men, but here GW has painted them according to the only one that can be seen leading one Mumakil in the films.
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And for bigger battles, I'm pretty sure you could adapt the LotOW-Alamo rules for fighting with units (to speed things up a bit). I'm definitely goiing to try that option in the near future!
There has been an unofficial "large-scale" adaptation called "War In Middle Earth" done by some of the chaps here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/GW_MiddleEarth/
You need to join the group, but if you are into LotR gaming, it's worth it.
How do I get that rule-set.. cannot find it on the group, only the cover...?
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And for bigger battles, I'm pretty sure you could adapt the LotOW-Alamo rules for fighting with units (to speed things up a bit). I'm definitely goiing to try that option in the near future!
There has been an unofficial "large-scale" adaptation called "War In Middle Earth" done by some of the chaps here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/GW_MiddleEarth/
You need to join the group, but if you are into LotR gaming, it's worth it.
How do I get that rule-set.. cannot find it on the group, only the cover...?
Hi Argonor,
sorry, I missed this yesterday.
Here is the message from the yahoogroup that contains the download info to the PDFs:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/GW_MiddleEarth/message/12681
I think it's still active, but if you have any problems, PM me & I'll send you zips of the files.
Ian
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Got it! Thank you! :mrgreen: :)
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There's no selling Lord of the Rings here. The book is what got me hooked to fantasy in the first place (hey, it was my very first book I 've read in English when I was in 7th grade - took me half a year but I've never regretted that effort).
My hope (against all reason of course) is that GW actually goes back to the strong side of the game - skirmishes. I've been waiting for more figures in the way of people from Dale, maybe even something like "civilians" - I always dreamt of a scenario where orcs try to ambush fleeing elves from Rivendell or from Lorien. But, alas, not in this life I fear.
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There's no selling Lord of the Rings here. The book is what got me hooked to fantasy in the first place (hey, it was my very first book I 've read in English when I was in 7th grade - took me half a year but I've never regretted that effort).
My hope (against all reason of course) is that GW actually goes back to the strong side of the game - skirmishes. I've been waiting for more figures in the way of people from Dale, maybe even something like "civilians" - I always dreamt of a scenario where orcs try to ambush fleeing elves from Rivendell or from Lorien. But, alas, not in this life I fear.
Yes, lack of "civvies" is a real pain in a lot of ranges - LOTR is no exception.
Sadly they are not sexy enough for the perceived target gamers - ie the Munchkins.
That's one of the things that the Foundry does [or did] very well. Most of their ranges seem to have at least a few civvies in them. You may be able to find useful proxies in historical Medieval or Ancient ranges. Don't know about the Elves, though :(