Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: wolfgangbrooks on February 01, 2008, 08:43:44 AM
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These are just some old scans of stuff I've repainted from the ahem "crappy, bendy, pre-painted crap" gamers like to look down on. I hate that people dismiss them just because of the factory paintjob. Sheesh, and this is supposed to be a painter heavy forum. :P
I think some of the sculpts released for the collectible minis game can equal or beat some of the best metals. It's kinda too bad I don't have any pics of some of the ones with the really intricate surface detail. Ah well, can't have everything.
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/minotaurus.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/bloodghost01.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/direrats02.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/wererat01.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/freeleaguesanta.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/gnollskele.jpg)
Unfortunately most examples of this skele do need to be straightened out...
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/grickfront.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/grickside.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/grickback.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/bullywugs.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/deathlock01.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/skelelegion.jpg)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/marid.jpg)
C'mon, admit you're wrong. Admit it. :)
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Never said they were crappy... just too large to mix with my other stuff. And I don´t do that type of fantasy. And that cocky attitude of the plasticsfolk isn´t really helpful, either... ;)
Nonetheless, lovely work. I particularly like the minotaur. :)
And yet, I still prefer metal. Now what will you do?!? :cry: ;)
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I would still rather have pewter or hard plastic. The fact that you can re-paint them doesn't change that fact. I own a bucket of Star Wars plastics myself but I'd still rather have them in unpainted hard plastic than the bendy gloppy state that most of them come in. Not to mention the blind pull aspect.
(http://pinphoto.tripod.com/natesmiscpics/trooperpaint03.jpg)
Here's a storm trooper I panted myself. I'd still rather have him in at least hard plastic and a non blind pull.
I suppose your mileage may very but I like crisper detail not slathered in thick factory paint to start out with. Not to mention that the pre-paints are always painted straight out of the mold with mold lines and all. By the time I get done prepping them I haven't saved any time as all.
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Cocky? If I am, it's to shrug off the slings and arrows of the lead snobs. :)
I think the large ones you're refering to are mostly the heroclix ones. Some of them tend to be larger, but are more realisticly proportioned. I think they fit in with some of the boutique type figs that have been coming out lately. (I need need to compare scales with some Hydra stuff sometime)
The D&D and Starwars ones tend to be from true 25's to slim 30's. And Dreamblade humans are unfortunately in the 40mms most of the time.
I haven't got a problem with lead, and most of my stuff is metal. But what will I do next? Heh, as soon as I get a chance to prime some of the pulp and retro sci-fi stuff I've been putting together...
Well, I might be able to turn some heads with that. :D
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... I'd still rather have them in unpainted hard plastic than the bendy gloppy state that most of them come in. Not to mention the blind pull aspect.
Hear, hear!
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I either buy cases when I'd like at least one of everything. Like I did with Haloclix. But mostly I buy singles in bulk online. Not like it's any different than ordering anything else.
Personally I'd prefer to be able to buy hard plastic multipart kits for stuff like the stormtroopers too. But there's enough variety in them at least it's not so much an issue, except for availability of course.
For prep, I just clean mould lines, spray over the base paint, and go from there. To me it seems it's mostly just the old Mage Knight, and oddly, some of the recent Starwars ones that have gloppy paint. I don't see a differnce in prep time personally. I've never gotten a lead figure that didn't need careful scrutiny to find all the flash and mould lines. Maybe you buy from better companies than me. :)
I understand personal preferences on the subject. I just don't like it when people state opinions as fact. It just bums me out when something neat is announced and people want to dump on it without looking just because of the material.
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I never said they could not be painted up or that the sculpts were bad. I only mentioned a dislike for the material and the FACTORY paint jobs.....
So you buy your blind pull plastics or perhaps you get them second hand. Then you shave off the flashing just like any mini. Then you fire up the stove to boil water to straighten the mini. A step you don't have to take with other kinds of minis. Then you either start painting over what could be a very heavy coat of paint or you re-prime the mini with yet another coat of paint causing even more of the subtle detail to be lost. You can end up with a nice looking mini but chances are the effort involved would look even beter on metal or hard plastic since your prime job is going over a clean surface and not a thick layer of existing paint.
Now you've finished a nice mini but you can't just throw it back in the bucket with the others because you don't want the paint to get rubbed off and you don't want it bent all out of shape again so you still have to store them just as carefully as a metal or hard plastic mini. Bad handling will still muck them up just like any other mini.
But what do I know. 20+ years painting, collecting, and gameing. I think it's ok to prefer one material over another.
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Really beautiful painting Wolfie! I like your style dammit!
But I still wouldn't choose plastic figures over metal. Call me a snob - but at the end of the day, I just don't like the feel of them...
But I think there is definitely room for a Plastic Adventure Forum. :wink:
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"I think it's ok to prefer one material over another."
Well, sure. To me all that matters is it's usefulness. I can't imagine how any other criteria matters, but I know some people are selective with what they like.
"Bad handling will still muck them up just like any other mini."
Really? My experience has been just the opposite. Metal flakes and rubs so easy and my plastic stuff has survived all kinds of disasters without so much as a smudge.
For priming, I use basic black rustoleum spray. I've accidentaly oversprayed on occasion, but when dry none of the detail has ever been lost. And it works good on even the super slick paint of some of the WOTC models. (It also actually dries, which is different than alot of stuff I used.)
I haven't actually had to use the hot water technique on a fig yet. I think less than one in a couple dozen of the ones I've bought, have needed straightening. Sometime I guess I need to round up the worse examples of the bendies and fix them up.
"You can end up with a nice looking mini but chances are the effort involved would look even beter on metal or hard plastic"
Now, I think that's up to technique and the sculpt. If there where to ever be a mini you could buy the exact same sculpt in both metal and a reasonably thin coated prepaint, I do believe I could paint both up to the same standard and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference without picking one up.
Personally I just don't buy that plastic can't hold the same amount of detail as metal. There are different casting concerns to be sure, but these days I don't think it's an issue.
"FACTORY paint jobs..... "
But I'm not buying them for the factory paint jobs. :) And the worst detail cloggers are easily visible in even online pictures.
"I never said they could not be painted up or that the sculpts were bad"
Never said you did. I'm reacting to what I see are the reactions of the hmmm... hardcore? wargaming community as a whole.
I don't like Mega-minis stuff, I just think most of the sculpts are bad. But it's not like anyone is judging the potential quality of the whole of lead minis on (again, what I think) are the low end of the commercial quality spectrum.
And thanks for the "like your stuff" posts everyone. :)
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You've done some amazing stuff there! Just wanted to point that out before I join the discussion on the merits and faults of pre-paints.
I think that even if a pre-paint takes more effort than an unpainted miniature, it can sometimes be worth it if you happen to find one that's perfect for whatever project you're working on. Of course, it would have been better if the sculpt had come as an unpainted metal or plastic figure in the first place, but that's totally beside the point. I think that in this recent discussion on metal vs plastic, we can begin to discern who the dogmatists* and pragmatists on LAF are. I like to think I'm a pragmatist, myself.
*in the neutral sense of the word, not the "arrogantly assertive" sense.
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If I didn't have a use for pre-painted plastics I wouldn't have a bucket load of Star Wars one. Still given the option I'd rather have them unpainted in hard plastic with the hero ones in metal. Since I can't the pre-paints will have to suffice since with Star Wars in particular no one else can make those minis. Extra layers of paint obscure detail. Everythinge else aside that is just a fact.
If I had a place close by selling singles I could go inspect before purchase I'd have more in my collection filling similar gaps that my Star Wars ones fill.
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Well, being in the hobby for the gaming (painting, for me, just goes with the territory), I love to be able to buy large quantities of cheap pre-painted minis like the Star Wars stuff off Evilbay.
I have been collecting plastic and metal soldiers/minis for gaming with ever since I was about 12-13 years old, and if those 1/72 plastics had been available in pre-paints, I'd probably never taken up painting minis.
That said, some minis, both plastic and metal, can be a pleasure to paint (as long as only one has to be painted). Painting an army of skeletons, for instance, is not, whether plastic or metal. Just a dreadful chore.
Now, for what it's worth, there's my 5 cents.
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Smeh. As long as its a good sculpt and its well cast, good stuff. I prefer metals over plastic, and plastic over resin (the benefits of resin are usually lost to casting imperfections).
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I think that in this recent discussion on metal vs plastic, we can begin to discern who the dogmatists* and pragmatists on LAF are. I like to think I'm a pragmatist, myself.
*in the neutral sense of the word, not the "arrogantly assertive" sense.
I'm a hypocrite. I blather on like a dogmatist and have "to be repainted" plastics in the closet. :D
You've done a nice job with these, but I and I fall into the "bad material/bad prepaints/useful in places/not inherently wrong" opinion category. Plastics make some things possible that would be hard or inconvenient or expensive to do in metal. I think you'll see people who are in it for the game feel the same way. Ultimately I prefer the heft and selection of metals if I'm going to have to choose between two otherwise useful miniatures.
Agree completely on skeletons being an utter chore to paint. White primer + paint the weapons + dark brown dip. At least it's fast.
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Great stuff!
What are those Egyptian looking animal guys up front and what are the tentacle monster things? I actually had some a while ago but I sold all my D&D minis after playing the game about 30 times and NEVER winning. I just didn't have the gamey brain or energy enough to learn all the combos and tricks.
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COOL !!!!
I like the Worms :roll:
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The worm guy is a Grick from Giants of Legend, they don't currently have any in stock in my favorite looking places, but I'll see if I can find you some.
The Minotaur is a Brass Golem from Night Below, and is a good 3-3.5 inches high. I got it for a painting contest on a D&D minis website. (got a map in submission for a tournament there as well)
http://store02.prostores.com/servlet/auggiesgames/Categories?category=D%26D+minis%3ANight+Below
I really recommend Auggie's, good service, great prices, and shipping is free if you buy alot. :) Plus he tries to maintain stock, which alot of people don't do.
Cardragora.com is a good one too, doesn't maintain a deep stock. But he's cheap, and has a wide selection.
"I just didn't have the gamey brain or energy enough to learn all the combos and tricks."
My advice is to never play Warmachine or Hordes, your mind might well explode. :)
(http://leadbones.lusagi.com/images/ddm/dwarvenfighters01.jpg)
One more I like but forgot to put up.
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Ah, Cool Stuff inc. has some "used" Grick in stock. Three quarters of the way down the page:
http://www.CoolStuffInc.com/main_miniatures.php?viewType=Dungeons%20and%20Dragons&info1=Miniatures&info2=Dungeons%20and%20Dragons&info3=Giants%20of%20Legend&info4=Singles
Cool Stuff is alright. But they charge by book value, which always seems to be overpriced to me. But a few worm guys in this case aren't too much.
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My advice is to never play Warmachine or Hordes, your mind might well explode. :)
quote]
Er... what ??? :?:
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My advice is to never play Warmachine or Hordes, your mind might well explode. :)
Er... what ??? :?:
I assume he wants to say that the eminently cool premise and fine quick-start rules of Warmachine quickly degraded into a combo-building slugfest, worse than any 40k tournament I´ve ever been to and almost as bad as Magic: The Blathering.
Love the figures, but I wouldn´t want to play the game anymore just for the *insert strong obscenity here* rules they´ve got nowadays.
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My advice is to never play Warmachine or Hordes, your mind might well explode. :)
Er... what ??? :?:
I assume he wants to say that the eminently cool premise and fine quick-start rules of Warmachine quickly degraded into a combo-building slugfest, worse than any 40k tournament I´ve ever been to and almost as bad as Magic: The Blathering.
Love the figures, but I wouldn´t want to play the game anymore just for the *insert strong obscenity here* rules they´ve got nowadays.
As a fairly strong player of both games, I really must step in here...
And agree totally. If I didn't have a group of friends who are more into the playing for playing sake, not just 'to win', I'd have given up both games. As it is, I have a reason to paint up those beautiful Dire Trolls, and some wonderfully evil Cryx.
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Thanks for the links, wolfgang. Dwarves look great too.
If this were other forums we would already be in the midst of a huge flame war about warmachine. Since this is the ultra laid back and positive Lead Adventure Forum it hasn't come to that. Most of my gaming buds play Hordes and Warmachine. Playing almost any ruleset with some easy going and laid back dudes is a great time but when it comes to "gamey" games like D&D minis and WM, I just get a little frustrated after a while. I'm a painter first (though not a great one!) and a gamer second, and using the mental juice to maximize an army's effectiveness is just effort I need to use elsewhere in life. Some of my friends are math people and very experienced at games and have alot of CCG experience and this all is cake for them. I like to sit down with a basic tactical type ruleset like LOTR. We are very lucky that miniature wargaming has something to satisfy everyone. So all you clever people enjoy your Warmachine and Hordes!
And all hail Lead Adventure! Where one can calmly explain why WM isn't for them or trump its virtues and no one gets snippy! This is the only forum I regularly visit any more.
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Thanks for the links, wolfgang. Dwarves look great too.
If this were other forums we would already be in the midst of a huge flame war about warmachine. Since this is the ultra laid back and positive Lead Adventure Forum it hasn't come to that. Most of my gaming buds play Hordes and Warmachine. Playing almost any ruleset with some easy going and laid back dudes is a great time but when it comes to "gamey" games like D&D minis and WM, I just get a little frustrated after a while. I'm a painter first (though not a great one!) and a gamer second, and using the mental juice to maximize an army's effectiveness is just effort I need to use elsewhere in life. Some of my friends are math people and very experienced at games and have alot of CCG experience and this all is cake for them. I like to sit down with a basic tactical type ruleset like LOTR. We are very lucky that miniature wargaming has something to satisfy everyone. So all you clever people enjoy your Warmachine and Hordes!
And all hail Lead Adventure! Where one can calmly explain why WM isn't for them or trump its virtues and no one gets snippy! This is the only forum I regularly visit any more.
Hater! U R teh suxxor.
Sorry, couldn't help myself. I find the game a refreshing change from the large scale ones I usually play, but it plays a bit too much like M:TG for me to really enjoy it. When movement comes in second to whatever vile combination you have come up with...meh. Still a kick to play once in while. And as soon as I get my camera back from the shop, I promise, I'll actually post a photo or two, and quit being such a lurker.
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COOL !!!!
I like the Worms :roll:
Me too very dark young shrub, cthulhu etc... who does em?
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"When movement comes in second to whatever vile combination you have come up with..."
Yes. For me Warmachine is far too much about weighing special abilities and screwing the opponent over with feats and "haha you can't move!" spells. There's alot I like about it, but there's alot of little things that really add up and wreck any enjoyment for me.
"Me too very dark young shrub, cthulhu etc... who does em?"
Wizards of the Coast, the link in my post with the dwarven picture is to an online store that carries them.
I'm going to start putting figure references in all my posts with the plastic people so guys who are mostly into lead can follow along if something piques their interest.
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Thx for putting ideas in my head....just bought 12 of the damned worms.....
Johan
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My insidious work has begun. Just you wait until I figure out how best to set up the camera. :)