Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: doublenot7 on May 26, 2012, 12:37:54 AM
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Warhammer Historical has closed. Too bad, they had some goods games and we have enjoyed playing legends of the Old West. Luckily I picked up the Blood on the Plains and Alamo book before they closed down. I missed the last book, Gunfight (?).
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Well, that sucks. Anyone have inside information on what's next? Will these titles be moved to a new manufacturer, or is GW shifting them around to another area?
They had some good stuff - the Gladiator book was excellent, and some of their newer stuff quite good.
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It is indeed a shame. I will admit to not being a huge fan of some of the rules but you always knew you'd be getting a high quality publication.
So who wants to buy my now out of print collection of all the Old West books for a grossly over inflated price? :D
Just kidding, they're nice books so plan to keep them.
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Showdown was the 4th title
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I tended to house-rule their rules sets quite a bit, but as mentioned they were always rather well done books. Easily the best thing GW produced. Now I can say I'm 100% done with GW. I do hope they transfer their rules sets to a new publisher. They released a LOT of material in the last year...and now it's all kaput.
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You might want to check this topic:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=42059.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=42059.0)
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I tended to house-rule their rules sets quite a bit, but as mentioned they were always rather well done books. Easily the best thing GW produced. Now I can say I'm 100% done with GW. I do hope they transfer their rules sets to a new publisher. They released a LOT of material in the last year...and now it's all kaput.
Just spare a moment for all those writers with projects in the pipe-line.......
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a very sad developement indeed for us fans. i have to agree with others in saying that many of the Warhammer Historical range trumped their 'normal' systems.
having worked briefly for GW last year i can understand their logic for closing down production (they want to focus their attention on their core games, to make sure they stay and the high standard and level of support that us gamers demand from a manufacturer), nevertheless its a shame that they don't feel that they could just keep printing the works that already exist. it struck me as quite a sensible sideline to have, as it gave an avenue for their games designers to vent some greative juices when working on only two and a half systems felt too stiffling.
sadly, its unlikely we'll see any of these works again, their most popular systems were, of course, based on core gaming systems (WAB on Fantasy and LotoW on LotR) so there is simply no way they could pass them on to another publisher. there were a few of their games that i never managed to play (Trafalgar and Kampfgruppe Normandy) so i don't know whether their rules sets were entirely new. so if anything rises from the ashes pheonix like, it will be those games. but i don't put much faith in that happening.
a very sad day indeed.
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Here's my issue with GW. I've played GW games since I was about...(does some math) 13 years old. I grabbed my first minis back in 2nd Edition 40K. Back during the days of outriders, and small hobby shops. The days when GW had two or three retail locations available in the entire country. GW was already a big name in the UK, and various other commonwealths, but it wasn't huge here yet.
White Dwarf had great articles, and gave lots of scenarios, and free cards, templates etc. There was still a lot of "the gamer down the street" feel to their games, minis and rules. They encouraged kit-bashing, and gave tips and hints on how to use other miniatures or models to fill gaps in their range. There seemed to be a truly genuine passion flowing.
I lived with a guy who's now my best friend, and he was a manager at one of GW's retail locations from 2002-2005 or so. Then they shut his store. Sadly he revealed how poorly GW does financially (or at least it was). I'm not up to speed with their finances right now. Either way, the meetings of managers and district managers and corporate etc. spelled out pretty plainly that they had lost much of the passion, and pushed heavily into hard numbers.
It's obvious that a company the size of GW has to do something like that.
I saw some great things come out of GW, but they always disappeared. Necromunda = fantastic (easily better than 40K by miles!). Mordheim = also fantastic. Warhammer Quest = bar none the best board-game dungeon crawler ever released. It showed that there was some true talent at the company level, but these games were always a flash in the pan, and then discontinued. I never understood that at all.
I was surprised when I saw that many of the Warhammer Historical titles were actually written or edited by some of the guys from back in 2nd Edition 40K days. I do think this is largely because WH games have never supported a model line. That means the writers and creators are free from the stricture of linking game-mechanics to business interests. There is no power-creep, etc. It's just good gaming rules.
GW has long disappointed me, but this is ridiculous. How hard is it to print a few books?
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How much did the "Hail Caesar" rule sets help do in WH in GW's eyes? I know that the local stores in my area of Southern California is a crazy for it. About six months ago I mentioned WH, and no one even raised an eyebrow.
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Showdown is my least favourite of the LOTOW books... not really worth the full retail price when compared to the other books...
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It is a sad thing, the amusing part is that they had very little overhead for historical. Write a book, let them go find their miniatures...update the book every few years, resell it. I am at a loss as to why they dropped it as they could not find high enough #s.
Same for Necromunda, Mordheim and other Fanatic games. They could have made plastic sets for Necro and Mordheim that would have brought revenue into the Fantasy and 40k line with crossover bits options. Again, most was easy to maintain systems with some revamping and rewrite.
I wonder if Fantasy Flight may take up the banner for these books? They are dabbling already in the mini market.
I used to work for GW also, the passion has fallen out, they want to recruit and not really maintain the gaming population anymore...they want sales...problem is they don't know how to treat the community right.
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^Agreed. I really don't understand how a one-off product that you honestly don't have to update (maybe include some errata every now and then) can cost so much to keep producing.
On top of that, I think GW is missing out on the crowd that is willing to dabble into GW miniatures games, but not go all in and make it a huge hobby. A lot of people I know were put off by the vastness of it. "Wait, I have to buy the rules, a codex, then choose miniatures, buy them, paint them etc...". Those same people could have bought Mordheim/Necromunda/Warhammer Quest...loved it, gotten a taste for it - then moved on to bigger and better things.
I was though, surprised at how brilliant the books (art, design, etc.) from Warhammer Historical were, as of late. Compared to the comically bad codexes being thrown out by GW every 3 months. Very different work force behind the projects I imagine.
I've never cared for Warhammer Ancients, but at least the book was beautiful (I think the entire Warhammer Fantasy/Ancients system to be rather poor really). Either way, sad to see it happen.
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^Agreed. I really don't understand how a one-off product that you honestly don't have to update (maybe include some errata every now and then) can cost so much to keep producing.
I would expect that given the sales prices etc on the WH books recently, they were clearing down the stock levels. Given that, then they probably didn't want to do another print run. A full print run costs a lot of money and takes up a fair bit of warehouse space, especially for multiple books that won't have the turn over of GW's main books. Smaller print runs are a possibility but they still use up a fair amount of space and the price per book is higher. GW has been winding down Warhammer Historical for a while now and I expect they just don't want to spend more money on it.
Same for Necromunda, Mordheim and other Fanatic games. They could have made plastic sets for Necro and Mordheim that would have brought revenue into the Fantasy and 40k line with crossover bits options. Again, most was easy to maintain systems with some revamping and rewrite.
Slightly different situation, but there is nothing stopping you playing Necromunda etc now. Many of the figures are still available through the webstore and you could always use figures from other manufacturers if you wanted :) The important part, ie the rules, are available to download for free (better than WH). Why isn't it pushed or supported more? Money. The games don't sell enough figures to warrant the support level.
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I would expect that given the sales prices etc on the WH books recently, they were clearing down the stock levels. Given that, then they probably didn't want to do another print run. A full print run costs a lot of money and takes up a fair bit of warehouse space, especially for multiple books that won't have the turn over of GW's main books. Smaller print runs are a possibility but they still use up a fair amount of space and the price per book is higher. GW has been winding down Warhammer Historical for a while now and I expect they just don't want to spend more money on it.
Slightly different situation, but there is nothing stopping you playing Necromunda etc now. Many of the figures are still available through the webstore and you could always use figures from other manufacturers if you wanted :) The important part, ie the rules, are available to download for free (better than WH). Why isn't it pushed or supported more? Money. The games don't sell enough figures to warrant the support level.
True and I do play. what sucks is with the plastics getting so nice, HELLO! make a plastic gang set for each gang. The bitz could have carried over into 40k for Imperial Guard and Greyknights. A train really pulled out of the station for GW if you ask me. The hobby industry is really turning towards skirmish games and GW is not going anywhere near them to get a slice of the pie.
I have a copy of the GW red book and the early way of thinking, that is not the company we see today.
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Okay, well I know nothing about this, only ever having bought paint from Games Workshop. But that isn't going to stop me venturing a theory from a position of complete ignorance ;)
At the end of the day, GW's core business is fantasy / sci-fi.
Largely (with the exception of LOTR) fantasy / sci-fi entirely of their own invention (and thus copyright). It's what they do and what they know. A very tightly controlled product set and an even more tightly controlled business model - every step of the process from concept through to sale. Not an unnecessary penny wasted outside the hermetically sealed GW system. You have to admire them really.
So they tried a little 'brand extension' and tested the water with a few sets of historical rules (derived, I believe, from their core fantasy / sci-fi rules products?)
But to really plunge into historicals in a big way would entail a nothing short of a wholesale reinvention of their brand, their product and knowledge base, and actually the entire GW credo. In other words, an acknowledgement that a whole other wargames hobby exists outside 'the only true wargames hobby' (as they see it) - the vaingloriously titled: 'Games Workshop Hobby'.
Acknowledging this fact of course opens up the inevitability of acknowledging the existence of many alternative suppliers for figures, paint, scenery, accessories - etc etc. Whereas in the Orwellian world-view propogated by GW to its disciples, there is no alternative to GW. They've long made a very successful play at being monopolists, and thus the very existence of Warhammer Historical rather flies in the face of this core doctrine.
Perhaps if it had proved a massively financially successful toe-in-the-water, they would have countenanced the complete reinvention of the GW universe that branching out into and embracing historicals at scale would entail. Presumably, it just wasn't lucrative enough to warrant such a massive upheaval and reformation.
I also suspect that where GW's customary pre-pubescent / adolescent fanbase are largely docile, compliant and grateful consumers of GW's product, the typical obstreperous and argumentative middle-aged historical wargamer is precisely the type of opinionated, demanding, and independent-minded customer GW's massively controlling culture doesn't like, can't cope with, and can happily do without...
:)
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Great post!
It was more of a hobby or vanity project by Jervis and co. than a serious attempt at brand extension. A few guys wanting to play with hoplites and hirdmen rather than orcs and skaven for a change. It may have become a little more serious but you're right, GW's core business is fantasy figures. If indeed it had become a "massively financially successful toe-in-the-water", maybe we would have ended up with some ridiculous stereotyped Skaven king Xerxesssss's against Elven hoplites, or maybe historical Normans might have been pitted against the slavic hordes of the chaos wastes!
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I also suspect that where GW's customary pre-pubescent / adolescent fanbase are largely docile, compliant and grateful consumers of GW's product, the typical obstreperous and argumentative middle-aged historical wargamer is precisely the type of opinionated, demanding, and independent-minded customer GW's massively controlling culture doesn't like, can't cope with, and can happily do without...
This sir, is what we call skitsnack in Svedala, and equalls to your references of what is commonly known as bullshit.
I dont play any of their games, not even the Historicals, however, I do enjoy their paints, models, miniatures and books with pretty pictures, and, I allways feel very much so welcome in their shops.
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This sir, is what we call skitsnack in Svedala, and equalls to your references of what is commonly known as bullshit.
I dont play any of their games, not even the Historicals, however, I do enjoy their paints, models, miniatures and books with pretty pictures, and, I allways feel very much so welcome in their shops.
What he said...
Kalle
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Easily the best thing GW produced.
A western game where you equip your hero with two tomahawks and a chineese sword and win against guys with sixshooters?
Please discuss.
Regards
/Kalle
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A western game where you equip your hero with two tomahawks and a chineese sword and win against guys with sixshooters?
Please discuss.
Regards
/Kalle
Haha! :D
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I didn't suggest GW shop staff have a problem with obstreperous and argumentative middle-aged historical wargamers. Most of us are ever so civil in the flesh.
It's in the frothing world of wargames chatter online where norms of polite behaviour are forgotten...
My point is that GW corporately has long fostered a culture of acceptance and obedience amongst its core adolescent customer base. So encountering a very different demographic - the sort of knowledgeable, opinonated, quarrelsome, questioning that pervades so many wargames fora - and which I'm sure they had experience of throughout the WH Historical experiment, must have been a culture shock. Probably more trouble than it was worth.
Like I said, it's just a theory. Call it skitsnack if you like though ;)
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I didn't suggest GW shop staff have a problem with obstreperous and argumentative middle-aged historical wargamers. Most of us are ever so civil in the flesh.
It's in the frothing world of wargames chatter online where norms of polite behaviour are forgotten...
My point is that GW corporately has long fostered a culture of acceptance and obedience amongst its core adolescent customer base. So encountering a very different demographic - the sort of knowledgeable, opinonated, quarrelsome, questioning that pervades so many wargames fora - and which I'm sure they had experience of throughout the WH Historical experiment, must have been a culture shock. Probably more trouble than it was worth.
Like I said, it's just a theory. Call it skitsnack if you like though ;)
I just thought that I, albeit with some sadness, realised that I rather fit in to the description that you gave of the middle aged, and perhaps at times, rather obnoxious wargamer, and hence had to comment.
I must confess to one sin though, I lied, I do play one of their games. I very much so do enjoy Mordheim every now and then.
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WH Historical experiment,
As far as I know, WH Historical wasn't really an experiment, testing waters or similar. Actually some of then GW peoples (Rick Pristley, Nigel Stillman, Perry Brothers) wanted a historical game to play with. They merely converted the WHFB rules into WAB. WH Historical actually was an hobby project with Rick Pristley supporting this.
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I just thought that I, albeit with some sadness, realised that I rather fit in to the description that you gave of the middle aged, and perhaps at times, rather obnoxious wargamer, and hence had to comment.
I must confess to one sin though, I lied, I do play one of their games. I very much so do enjoy Mordheim every now and then.
When I worked for GW, the staff was taught to focus on recruiting new players (any age) (but the younger ages was the best to bring on board for the long term consumer). They have a nickname for the old farts that go in and complain and buy very little called Greybeards. Sure the GW staff will be nice, talk to you and sell you anything you want. They are still looking to recruit the new player, have them to come into the store and play games not veteran players, they don't want to encourage them to hang at the store. The complaints
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When I worked for GW, the staff was taught to focus on recruiting new players (any age) (but the younger ages was the best to bring on board for the long term consumer). They have a nickname for the old farts that go in and complain and buy very little called Greybeards. Sure the GW staff will be nice, talk to you and sell you anything you want. They are still looking to recruit the new player, have them to come into the store and play games not veteran players, they don't want to encourage them to hang at the store. The complaints
I have no worries about being called a Greybeard, I will take that as a compliment. However, I dont fear getting treated with any difference from any other customer either, especially since I do hang out with a few of the staff privately.
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A western game where you equip your hero with two tomahawks and a chineese sword and win against guys with sixshooters?
Please discuss.
Regards
/Kalle
Not if:
A) You don't play with cheesy players.
B) You adapt some house rules.
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A western game where you equip your hero with two tomahawks and a chineese sword and win against guys with sixshooters?
Please discuss.
Bear in mind that you can't do things like that when you pick your gang, line up and fight. You actually have to go out of your way, scour through all the supplements, and deliberately *choose* to purchase an unlikely combo. As it's a WYSIWYG game, you then have to convert a model to represent it.
People who go to those lengths to ruin other people's enjoyment in the furtherance of their own winning streak will break ANY game...
If, however, you want the freedom to be able to do wacky stuff, because your group is more 'Jonah Hex' than 'True Grit', then you'll probably enjoy that aspect all the more!
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Still, one tomahawk wins over one sixshooter.... its not cheese, its a fundamental flaw in the game.
K
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Still, one tomahawk wins over one sixshooter.... its not cheese, its a fundamental flaw in the game.
K
A sixgun is 10", STR 3 and Fanning
A tomahawk is Sx2" (usually 6"), STR as user (3 usually), can use on the move and a hand weapon
Aside from the being able to throw the tomahawk in the movement phase the sixgun beats it by 4" range, mass of firepower (fanning). Unless someone is not on their A game, in theory a tomahawk should never get near them. Plus once you throw the Tomahawk it's gone, you don't have a dozen of them unless you buy more than one. Sixshooter never has ammo issues other than a critical forcing you to reload.
What you are talking about is a best case scenario....I did have a friend that figured out a way to REALLY break indians and we plan to try out the theory one day. I feel it comes down to the scenery and how each player plays....if I had enough rifles and a good field of fire (and the right scenario) I would butcher them in theory as they can run away after 1/3 of their posse is gone.
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Still, one tomahawk wins over one sixshooter.... its not cheese, its a fundamental flaw in the game.
K
It is a 'game' though and meant to be (I'm sorry to use the 'F' word....) fun.
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I have to be honest I've never played Legends of the Old west but I worked at GW head office when it was printed. One of the reasons I've never played it is because of the complaints from the playtesters, quite a few around at the time, they all gave very similar complaints with the close combat and some of the weapons etc. When they gave their feedback at the scheduled time through an email group set up for it, they were told the books had already gone to print and it was all fine...
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It is a 'game' though and meant to be (I'm sorry to use the 'F' word....) fun.
You sir have till noon to get out of town! ;)
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I have to be honest I've never played Legends of the Old west but I worked at GW head office when it was printed. One of the reasons I've never played it is because of the complaints from the playtesters, quite a few around at the time, they all gave very similar complaints with the close combat and some of the weapons etc. When they gave their feedback at the scheduled time through an email group set up for it, they were told the books had already gone to print and it was all fine...
It's not a perfect system but I have yet to find a wargame that is. If you never played a game because people complained about it there would not be much to play. I am always of the thought give it a try at least once. If you hate it, walk away and find something else.
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The LOTOW works ok, I think the Pirate one is better as the melee options for weapons etc and the list of characters in the book including NPC give you ready made stats for pick up games as if honest I dont play linked games or one type of game often enough.
If they wanted with LOTOW to give more weapon types they should have and I supose you could, go for D10 to work in slight differences in hitting power accuracy etc
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It's not a perfect system but I have yet to find a wargame that is. If you never played a game because people complained about it there would not be much to play. I am always of the thought give it a try at least once. If you hate it, walk away and find something else.
Should have been a little clearer, given that I live in Nottingham, quite a few of the people I'd play Old West games with are the same people who made an effort to do the playtesting. Besides I have rules for Old West gaming that I like already so I don't need to try it :)
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I think, as someone said earlier, the real secret is that it doesn't matter what rules you play with - just make sure you play with people who approach the game in the same spirit of fun you do. There are people out there who can make even the loveliest set of rules a miserable experience, because basically, they are tossers :D
Equally, you can have a very enjoyable 'narrative' game with the feeblest set of rules if it's played in the right spirit.
I'm not saying I don't like to play well and win in games I play. But I try to remember that it's about the fun of playing the game with a group of like-minded people - not about the winning at all costs, or about the rules.
Anyway, bit off topic there. Sorry about that ;)
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I think, as someone said earlier, the real secret is that it doesn't matter what rules you play with - just make sure you play with people who approach the game in the same spirit of fun you do. There are people out there who can make even the loveliest set of rules a miserable experience, because basically, they are tossers :D
Equally, you can have a very enjoyable 'narrative' game with the feeblest set of rules if it's played in the right spirit.
I'm not saying I don't like to play well and win in games I play. But I try to remember that it's about the fun of playing the game with a group of like-minded people - not about the winning at all costs, or about the rules.
Anyway, bit off topic there. Sorry about that ;)
Me and Kalle never ever play to have fun, or to allow for anyone else to have a good time, we allways try to go for rules set that allows for cheesy and beardy warbands, allways opted for maximum boordom. We also never ever play narrative games either, its so last year.
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Same here. I live to count buttons and rivets. Screw "fun"; it's just a form of weakness, really.
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Absolutely, what was wrong with Newbury rules, anyway? :D
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I think that's the key point. I am fortunate enough to play with "mostly" very good guys. A few tournament hounds and cheesers every now and then. When we play, we often play to how we think the event would occur, vs. what the rules would let us get away with. It makes the game immensely more enjoyable. Same reason I quite playing pick-up games in stores --- always ended up with some rules-abusing asshat.
I'd actually prefer to ditch a bunch of the LOTOW rules, but all of my group know them. I think as a game for progressing a posse along through several games it works pretty well. We had to really up the gold though, as you get almost nothing, and your models die off quickly.
I will agree though, like ALL GW games...HTH is always way too powerful. Same problem in 40K and every other game they make. Trying to create false strategy by opening up another avenue of attack, to keep people from hunkering down in buildings too much I guess.
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Sometimes, people making a warband using the existing rules, they make hardhitting units. These units most often win over my and your warbands. It doesnt necesary mean that they are bad wargamers, or cheesy, or beardy, or general assholes, it can mean that they are just better at putting warbands together.
It boils down to the fact that we do game with winning as part of the game. Sometimes, some people win more than others, its okay, they are usually better than me when it comes to reading the rules, judging a troop choise value over another and so forth. It usually means that I get my ass handed to me, and it is still okay, since part of the game was competative.
My friend Kalle have that ability, he can read the rules, and instantly find loopholes, and most of the times we try to cover them up, patching them with our own good will if you like. It is, after all, simple mechanics and the math that is part of it can be overcome with some creative thinking. I dont have that, I allways opt for the nice pistols, cool rifles, scary looking cannons, he doesnt.
However, then we have the ones that cant live without winning, they simply must win. I dont play with them, its as simple as that, especially since I seldom play competative games. However, its their choise, their way of playing and its up to them. I take it, that they propably dont want to play with me either, since we simply put dont have the same goals.
The general ecception to this is naturally when playing against Kalle, I allways do try to win as hard as I possibly can, since its both fun to play against him, and its exeedingly fun to gloat those few times that I do actually win.
A third kind is the ones pretending to be better than the rest of us. Their games are better than ours, they have more fun, their stories and narrative gaming are superior and their gaming tables are propably the best made ones ever. I dont play with these people either.
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Just my tres centavos (inflation) in that I play to have fun, recreating history (or creating a secondary reality pseudo-history/narrative,) and - should it happen - enjoying the glow of victory. 8)
If "historical" games reward grossly ahistorical tactics (Fantasy/Science Fiction get a lot more slack) over historically successful tactics then I really don't enjoy them. :o :( If a game, in general but much more so for "historical" rules, rewards "real life" logical tactics (if 21st century personal body armor makes 20th century slug throwers successful on a 20 on a D20 only I can live with that,) then I prefer that. :) TSATF, for example, is a good game :- in some ways but the complete inability of highly trained troops to react with rapid-fire rifles to visible advancing threats seen last turn with no distractions and not having fired last or this turn makes the game significantly less appealing to me (and I usually play the natives in those games so it's not a "Victory fever" thing) because it's just a mechanics over logic design IMO. I play TSATF when my friend blake puts out the troops but that's because it's Blake. lol
Never a GW fan for myriad of reasons but it saddens me to see so many of my fellow gamers locally (a minority of the gamers here I suspect) losing out in this decision. If I understand GW's business plan correctly it is the correct decision for them.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I have never been a WH fan, but the loss of any historical gaming source is not good.
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I have never been a WH fan, but the loss of any historical gaming source is not good.
Actually... I completely concur with that evaluation, despite my known anti-GW tastes.
Gracias,
Glenn
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I have never been a WH fan, but the loss of any historical gaming source is not good.
I agree, I was exposed to Historical Gaming because of GW, and now I really don't play their games, but it was a gateway into the hobby. Any Historical gaming is good for the hobby as a whole, in the same way that Marvel is good for DC. Odds are that someone who reads X-Men, will eventually pick up a DC title that sounds fun.
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...and I do not see what seems to be the trouble. GWH produced tons of games with lots of add ons and supplements.
Everybody who likes the games can still play them.
I regret the loss of GWH because I think they produced good books.
What I am curios about is if Wargames Illustrated will finally ( hopefully ) name other skirmish games than always LOTOW for small scale scenarios ! Did they have any relations ?
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I agree, I was exposed to Historical Gaming because of GW, and now I really don't play their games, but it was a gateway into the hobby.
That is exactly why GW killed WHH, GW management do not want you progressing from the core Games, Warhammer for life and nothing else.
Any Historical gaming is good for the hobby as a whole,
Do not forget that "the hobby" as we know it and the "GW hobby" are distinctly different things, GW does not support wargaming and will do as little as possible/nothing to encourage it. GW supports WarhammerGaming.
The shame about WHH and its titles being lost is that it will be increasingly difficult to introduce new players to what are very good games as availability of the books declines. Less an issue for LotOW and WAB, but a huge problem for the newer Kampfgruppe Normandy WW2 game.
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If they did it purely from a business point of view, then there's no reason they couldn't release them as print on demand for people who DID want the books, even if the price went up a bit. Totally shutting them away forever when the files still exist doesn't help but harms the gaming community. This leads me to lean towards believing the opinion that they got rid because it threatened their core games. GW are more and more creating a division between their hobby culture and the rest of gamingdom, to the point where they almost seem to deny anything much else exists beyond their games. Perhaps WH was a painful reminder to them that it does.
On the subject of LoToW, I like it, but find it's a bit too melee focussed at times. I have Gutshot to try yet but I hear great things about it. Shame it really needs a third player minimum to act as a GM. How many friends does this book think I have? :D
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<snip> How many friends does this book think I have? :D
Two or more.
Texians know everybody, don't ya' know?
To my friends in/from Texas - just kidding! Out the revolvers down!
Gracias,
Glenn
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GW does not support wargaming and will do as little as possible/nothing to encourage it. GW supports WarhammerGaming.
Yes.
GW are more and more creating a division between their hobby culture and the rest of gamingdom, to the point where they almost seem to deny anything much else exists beyond their games. Perhaps WH was a painful reminder to them that it does.
And yes.
My points exactly, back at the top of page 2! ;) :D
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We said it better! ;)
Seriously though, it is a shame that it has gone in this direction. I wonder if it'll ever turn around. If I wont the Euromillions it probably would! lol
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We said it better! ;)
You certainly said it shorter! :)
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Too bad Perry Miniatures does not pick up selling these rules sets...
I would think they could make some arrangement with GW to do this...
Darkoath
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I was one of the writers (along with many I assume) whose project was 'next in line' to be published - back in December 2010.
WHH was always a fairly small set up with the 'editor' (pre- Forgeworld) doing much of the work (even down to packaging up the books for despatch - so I believe) - almost a one man show.
I don't know much about the politics of GW but one thing I do know is that majority of the staff (that I have spoken to in GW shops) did not know about the existance of WHH.
If nothing else WHH was a good starting point for would be authors to vent their creative juices.