Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: CyberAlien312 on June 22, 2012, 05:28:18 PM
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Hi,
I finally received the first bunch of my WOTR miniatures (a box of perry infantry, Salisbury, York, Warwick, Richard III & command) and I'm going to paint a Yorkist army! ;D
Today I made a start by painting up the earl of Salisbury, and here's what he looks like now. Please tell me what you think.
Cheers!
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I think he looks excellent, particularly as Salisbury's CoA is not the easiest design to do freehand. Well done! :)
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Excellent - well done
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More please
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Very nice!! Looking forward to seeing more of them painted!!
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Nice!!!
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Thanks for the comments!
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Great start. He does have cool coat of arms. If memory serves me right (it mostly doesn't!) his livery troops wore red and black which I know from experience (Northumberland) looks great on the figures. Look forward to seeing your future Yorkists. Cheers.
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Nice coat of arms! Looking forward to seeing some troops...
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If memory serves me right (it mostly doesn't!) his livery troops wore red and black which I know from experience (Northumberland) looks great on the figures. Look forward to seeing your future Yorkists. Cheers.
That was what the Freezywater books reckoned too... but the Nevilles and Percys were both neighbours and rivals and the Percy livery is also given as Red and Black (until Tudor times, when it went to a three colour pattern), so would they really use the same colours - at the same time? Might be a tad confusing. However, it might be that Northumberland's colours are popularly wrong*...
Salisbury's garter stall plate shows that his crest mantling colours were red and black and are usually the best indicators of livery colours around (mostly)... so with his gold griffon badge, would probably look quite good.
* and were possibly black, or red and blue, as mentioned here (http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/percy-livery-colours.html).
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Nicely done.
I've painted him - although not as Salisbury. But IMHO he's one of the Perrys best figures in the entire range.
Looking forward to more :)
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Lovelyt freehand on the livery - excellent work. 8) Looking forward to seeing the rest of your force painted up!
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That was what the Freezywater books reckoned too... but the Nevilles and Percys were both neighbours and rivals and the Percy livery is also given as Red and Black (until Tudor times, when it went to a three colour pattern), so would they really use the same colours - at the same time? Might be a tad confusing. However, it might be that Northumberland's colours are popularly wrong*...
Salisbury's garter stall plate shows that his crest mantling colours were red and black and are usually the best indicators of livery colours around (mostly)... so with his gold griffon badge, would probably look quite good.
* and were possibly black, or red and blue, as mentioned here (http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/percy-livery-colours.html).
Great research. Read with interest and logged. Your point about local rivalry makes perfect sense. Does this mean I have to re-paint a quarter of my Lancastrian army painted so far? Gulp.
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Great research. Read with interest and logged. Your point about local rivalry makes perfect sense. Does this mean I have to re-paint a quarter of my Lancastrian army painted so far? Gulp.
Thanks... and I really don't know to be honest. :?
Liveries are really confusing, as unlike coats of arms they didn't stay fixed. For example, Lord Howard appears to have used black, then changed to blue when he became Duke of Norfolk, according to his household accounts at least, yet other sources describe his men as wearing Red and his son as using Red and White. The one common factor appears to be the badge, which was the white lion (and the white sallet for his son, who also took on the white lion later).
The first Percy Earl appears to have also used red and black, as did Lord Poynings (2nd Earl), but his other son, Lord Egremont (d.1460), appears to have been the main protagonist in the Percy Neville dispute and is often mentioned as handing out 'illegal livery', which might imply he used different colour(s) to what were the normal Percy colours... or just that he wasn't empowered by law to raise men. Salisbury and John Neville (as Lord Montagu in 1460 and briefly Earl of Northumberland) appear to have used the same colours as the Percys at some point.
The only other option I can think of is that Salisbury adopted the traditional Percy colours after 1455 to make a point and had used different colours previously. This might account for the change to red and blue (or black trimmed red?) for the 3rd Percy Earl. Judging by the letter shown in the link, there's no reason to believe that all the Percy forces even wore a single set of colours. Just how much red and black cloth could you get hold of in a hurry to cloth several thousand retainers?
I wouldn't re-paint them, the colours are confirmed and valid... it just seems downright odd to have opposing forces apparently wearing the same colours.
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Hi all,
I just painted my first man at arms and I wondered if it looks good enough to paint the rest of the men at arms in the same way? Sorry for the bad picture, by the way.
Cheers!
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I wouldn't re-paint them, the colours are confirmed and valid... it just seems downright odd to have opposing forces apparently wearing the same colours.
I think I need to get a hold of your reading list. Great insight on the period. Can you recommend any good reads? Regarding liveries, I have stuck mainly to using the standard colours as a guide. So, although Norfolk is widely given as red or blue, I have given him half of each. I know this is a fairly inaccurate method but it gives the retinues a certain cohesion of colour.
Cyber, great start on the maa. How are you splitting up the box. 2:1 in favour of archers? Or are you going staff weapon heavy?
Cheers
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Like the dulled metal, good start to a mighty yorkist army ;D
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look great well done!
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I like the MAA... the photo's not showing up too well for me, but the little I can see seems to be well done. :)
@15th Panzer - I'll do a post at some future point, but I'm wary of jacking Cyber's thread any further. Reading lists are difficult though, as you have to tailor them to use, purpose and aim. Leave it with me, but might be a few weeks. :?
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Thanks!
@15th Panzer: 18 minis are assembled as archers, 18 as billmen and 4 as commanders. I know it isn't historically accurate, because the majority of the men at arms were archers, but I think I prefer billmen to archers, so I just assembled the maximum amount of billmen ;).
@Arlequín: Yeah, the photo is bad. But I don't really mind the conversation about livery colours, it's actually really interesting :D.
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I like the billman, nice work on the armour. 8)
If I was being really critical I might suggest changing the colour of his hose, as he kind of looks like he's not wearing any pants at the moment... Could just be the contrast in the photo though, if he looks ok in hand then ignore me.
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I like the billman, nice work on the armour. 8)
If I was being really critical I might suggest changing the colour of his hose, as he kind of looks like he's not wearing any pants at the moment... Could just be the contrast in the photo though, if he looks ok in hand then ignore me.
Thanks. I think it's the contrast, because in real life his trousers are darker than his skin.
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Now, I won't glue the men at arms to the large bases supplied with the box, so last week I ordered a bag of 40 individual bases. It hasn't arrived yet, so my men at arms don't have bases yet. :(
I did paint a commander in full armour, and I think he turned out quite good.
I also painted a mirliton knight that was lying around. I know the white rose symbol wasn't an official symbol in the WOTR, but it was great fun painting it.
Lastly, I made a photograph of Salisbury at a farm, just for fun. :D
Please tell me what you think!
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I like that commander. You've got a really nice contrast in the armour tones; well done.
I also rather like that second chap, and your freehand design on his shield puts mine to shame... but... I strongly doubt you'd see such 14th century kit on a War of the Roses battlefield. Lovely figure, though, so I hope he'll get employed somehow!
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I'm with you on the ratio. I find the staff weapon boys much more fun to paint up. All my units are roughly 50:50 if you combine nobles and bill men v archers. Like the unpolished armour look to the nobleman. Cheers.
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Great start to the project, looking forward to see more of it.
I know the white rose symbol wasn't an official symbol in the WOTR, but it was great fun painting it.
The White Rose was an official symbol of the Yorkist house during and before that conflict. White Roses were displayed on the Standards of Richard Duke of York and his three surviving sons. One might assume thzat company standarts existed depicting only the White rose were carried on the battlefields. The Red Rose entered the scene later and seems to have been an unfortunately successful propaganda move introduced by Henry Tudor at Bosworth 1485. The original Lancaster symbol were two Ostrich Feathers.
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Hi,
A picture of Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York (Perry). It was great fun to paint. Please tell me what you think!
Cheers!
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I like him - well done
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Nice job...
Although and I hate to be picky, but anyone with a coat of arms would display it instead of wearing livery colours. Livery colours, like a jockey's colours now, signify who someone 'worked' for. Even a knight bachelor or a 'gentilman' employed in a lord's household, would wear his own coat of arms, although his men would probably wear his employer's livery. Service between the social elite was usually signified by giving out quite fancy badges or symbols, like the interlocked 'SSS' chains of the Lancastrian kings, or the small enamelled swan broaches given out by the Duke of Buckingham.
Coats of arms were a status symbol and were eagerly sought after and even misappropriated when the opportunity arose. They proclaimed to the world that you were 'somebody'.
Keep up the good work! :)
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Although and I hate to be picky, but anyone with a coat of arms would display it instead of wearing livery colours. Livery colours, like a jockey's colours now, signify who someone 'worked' for. Even a knight bachelor or a 'gentilman' employed in a lord's household, would wear his own coat of arms
Bloody hell Jim, now you tell me >:(
;)
Actually, I think all my serious lords are in armour, not surcoats, so i've probably got away with it... :D
Well done CyberA. Like him.
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Bloody hell Jim, now you tell me >:(
;)
Actually, I think all my serious lords are in armour, not surcoats, so i've probably got away with it... :D
Well done CyberA. Like him.
Hey! cut me some slack here... I nearly bit my tongue (or fingers) and didn't say anything at all. ;)
It's a heavy burden being cursed with a sliver of knowledge, I picture the yawns starting before I even press 'enter' as it is. It's like being the old fart at the bar in the pub who keeps trotting out his war stories... okay at first, but gets a bit dull and you wish he'd shut up after a while. ::)
Seriously... well painted WotR figures? Can't get enough of them and I wouldn't want anyone worrying about what 'old Jim' might have to say about it. lol
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Thanks all!
Although and I hate to be picky, but anyone with a coat of arms would display it instead of wearing livery colours. Livery colours, like a jockey's colours now, signify who someone 'worked' for. Even a knight bachelor or a 'gentilman' employed in a lord's household, would wear his own coat of arms, although his men would probably wear his employer's livery. Service between the social elite was usually signified by giving out quite fancy badges or symbols, like the interlocked 'SSS' chains of the Lancastrian kings, or the small enamelled swan broaches given out by the Duke of Buckingham.
Coats of arms were a status symbol and were eagerly sought after and even misappropriated when the opportunity arose. They proclaimed to the world that you were 'somebody'.
>:( You should have said that before I started painting! >:(
But anyway, I'll bear that in mind next time. ;)
I just painted Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, "The Kingmaker".
Please tell me what you think!
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Although and I hate to be picky, but anyone with a coat of arms would display it instead of wearing livery colours. Livery colours, like a jockey's colours now, signify who someone 'worked' for. Even a knight bachelor or a 'gentilman' employed in a lord's household, would wear his own coat of arms, although his men would probably wear his employer's livery. Service between the social elite was usually signified by giving out quite fancy badges or symbols, like the interlocked 'SSS' chains of the Lancastrian kings, or the small enamelled swan broaches given out by the Duke of Buckingham.
Coats of arms were a status symbol and were eagerly sought after and even misappropriated when the opportunity arose. They proclaimed to the world that you were 'somebody'.
A big thank you for this information. It comes just right in time for me. :D
@CyberAlien312: Great work on and much inspiration from all that. :-)
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Like the horse colour.
I've painted him too. He looks lovely, and yet (like several of the Perry WOTR metals) he's actually quite a crude sculpt up close ::)
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Thanks all!
>:( You should have said that before I started painting! >:(
But anyway, I'll bear that in mind next time. ;)
I just painted Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, "The Kingmaker".
Please tell me what you think!
Mea malum... ;)
It's a good figure, no mistake and you've done a good job... also another vote here for the horse colour. :)
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Nice work :), I like the overall matt look and ditto the horse. My only suggestion would be to use a static grass tuft to mask the join from the hoof to the base.
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Hi,
Just when you all thought you got rid of me, I'm back with more miniatures! ;)
Yesterday I painted three men at arms. I've chosen a quick painting style for my men at arms, because I, unlike people like Captain Blood, don't have the patience to paint forty extremely detailed figures. I mostly rely on a few layers and a wash. Please tell me what you think of them! :D
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Well I think they're a fine looking bunch of levy, just ready to be thrown into the meatgrinder that is a bill fight!
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Mea malum... ;)
It's a good figure, no mistake and you've done a good job... also another vote here for the horse colour. :)
Seconded - especially the Latin ;)
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Vergil's ashes are probably swirling in his urn, but a language has to adapt to survive... lol
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I think they look fine and if you're happy with them, that's the main thing :)
I don't really have the patience to paint the way I do either! It's quite frustrating ;)