Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: SBRPearce on June 26, 2012, 01:18:46 PM
-
Bad news - after 8 years, the US Army has realized that their digital camo pattern doesn't, in fact, help you blend in anywhere "except maybe a gravel pit".
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06/24/062412-news-camouflage-fiasco-1-5/
Now I have to repaint all my Empress modern figures... Crap - and I got those little guys looking so good!
-
Bad news that they wasted so much money on the old camo (that frankly, looks like crap) but good news that they finally get a decent one (if they stay with MultiCam).
-
Oh don't even get me started on the "ACU"! I hated that they had us change over, and I still hate the damn things. >:(
The pattern is bad, the material sucks, barely breaths at all, and the cut sucks. Just bad all the way around.
-
I thought they had figured this out years ago, they just couldn't fish out the money for it.
MCU/Multicam is probably just as bad; British soldiers have been complaining about it for ages, though whether thats because they don't like change or the camo is genuinely rubbish, I don't know.
So the U.S would perhaps be better of making a new uniform, will be interesting to see what emerges from this.
-
They'll get their money back by selling the surplus to third world armies.
-
Acu works perfect iff you hide behind a couch
(http://www.reoiv.com/images/random/ACU_Couch.jpg)
-
What was the point of the BRIGHT NON-BLENDING flag patch, and the bit of green velcro on the other shoulder? I could never figure that out.
-
You only need a universal camo pattern if you fight all around the universe. For us, it's enough to have a forest side and a snow side. Covers 100% of the intended environments. ;)
(Disclaimer: This was comedy, not a political statement.)
-
Honestly ... I dare everyone of those digi-camo fans to speak up now.
I remember times, when everyone on the internet went apeshit over digi-camo and thought it was the gift of the gods to mankind.
Everyone else, who even dared so much as voice a different opinion or point out that one the first glance it didn't look like it would blend in well, got flamed to hell and back again.
And now this ... awsome. The army admitting it is a failure. 10 out of 10.
I feel sorry for the bunch of repaints now, though. Especially as I think that it is quite a hard pattern to paint.
But look at the bright side - more reason to enlarge the mountain of lead! :D
von der Tann
-
Well hopefully they will switch to an easy to paint pattern so I can finally play with modern combat miniatures.
-
I'm good - I was about to start a modern project, so no worries now :D
-
brilliant news, now I won't have to learn to paint it lol
-
What was the point of the BRIGHT NON-BLENDING flag patch, and the bit of green velcro on the other shoulder? I could never figure that out.
In our army, its good so people can put some dirt on it and cover it up :D
-
brilliant news, now I won't have to learn to paint it lol
lol
Some very funny replies to this thread. Most enjoyable :)
I think in the end they will find that for a true global empire, khaki is the answer.
Or red ;)
(also humour, not a political statement. Before i get attacked by a drone ;))
-
It seems like The USMC is still pretty okay with MARPAT. I wonder if was just planned out better and not as rushed as UCP.
-
Yeah Marpat worked out just fine for the USMC. Because it was made for a few different environments. ACUS was chose because some one thought it looked cool.
-
brilliant news, now I won't have to learn to paint it lol
Alas, you'll have to learn to paint summat else and it almost certainly will be harder than stippling green grey over lighter green grey. :(
I notice that none of the discussion around this says that they are ditching pixelated patterns, merely the current one and they have a few to choose from. That's not to say that pixelated patterns confer any real advantage, it's really all down to fashion.
As for dumping the surplus on the developing world, well they might be a little late. A number of nations have produced rip-off versions and fielded them.
Global empire requires working dress? I'd suggest they take a look at what Chinese investment bankers are currently wearing. :D
-
I am all for going back to the old OD green or BDUs lol
But its not going to happen. ::)
-
Agreed. Much easier to paint!
Actually I reckon the US Army reached the apogee of cool looking uniforms sometime in the mid 1950s. I love those old Ridgeway caps, combat boots and the coloured name and US Army tapes on the breast. It's early GI Joe cool.
-
double post.
-
In our army, its good so people can put some dirt on it and cover it up :D
Which is right back to how khaki started. Forward to the 1840s!
-
A while ago i showed a friend of mine (who's heavily into digicam, multicam a the Lord now's what) my original (post Vietnam) tigerstripe fieldjacket and trousers (of later variety). He had never seen it before (his sence of history is not well develloped) and went totally apes**t. He's now searching high and low and can't find it (much to his annoyance).
I still feel it works best in heavely wooded area's where i do my wild camping and survival trips.
-
i have some Auscam in digi and love it here in NZ in the summer playing airsoft :), ACU on the other hand has always been a FAIL ::)
-
I wear ye olde British camo we had before the MCU stuff came along. Works a treat for all things in the wilds, and its easier to paint, it just seems way more practical than most of today's camo. Though can't say it gives me too much of an edge in paintball/airsoft. Most of the games i've been to its all up close, and I charge around like a muppet.
Although I remember people from my University went airsofting and wore full british kit, even those god awful boots. Awful, terrible, blister farm boots.
German Military boots are way better ;)
And the U.S decision to use ACU in their army was probably a purely political decision, not a military one. Same goes for MCU and the fact we're using the SA80 in the British army.
-
Acu works perfect iff you hide behind a couch
(http://www.reoiv.com/images/random/ACU_Couch.jpg)
:o ...eerily effective I didn't saw the man lying on the couch at first lol
-
Global empire requires working dress? I'd suggest they take a look at what Chinese investment bankers are currently wearing. :D
bespoke British made suits lol
-
...eerily effective I didn't saw the man lying on the couch at first
He's the part of the picture that doesn't have cabbage-roses all over him! :D
I was never a fan of ACU, as much for the fit as for the pattern. My brother, who's an infantry officer, mostly complained that the REMFs issued themselves the new uniforms before the guys in the field - every pen-pusher who had a chance to reach into a crate figured "I'm tactically mission-critical - I need to be invisible too!"
-
About camo: I've seen this in biennale, last year. I think one should think about it.
http://youtu.be/3IVFtFZLmMU
-
1) I can sympathize with the US army and its members, now they will have decent camo (hopefully) uniform adapted to different areas...
2) just after having painted half my empress and a whole load of PP 15mm... and, even more important, after having mastered a decent tecnique... (immediatly after having reached satisfaction with the old BDU camo of course!). o_o
Ok my US Army will be labelled 2006-2012. lol
-
Dont worry Arrigo, they will most likey take at least tell 2014 to fully implament any changes lol
-
bespoke British made suits lol
Indeed, although the tailoring is probably done in Hong Kong or Shanghai.
If the US Army is reading this then I'd reccomend an account at Hawkes & Gieves. They used to be military tailors anyway.
-
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/06/28/army-to-recommend-multicam-for-entire-force.html?ESRC=dod.nl
-
It's a sound decision. MultiCam is much more suitable and versatile for today's operations. http://www.forte.jor.br/destaque/o-padrao-de-camuflagem-multicam/
-
It's a sound decision. MultiCam is much more suitable and versatile for today's operations. http://www.forte.jor.br/destaque/o-padrao-de-camuflagem-multicam/
So what's the conclusion to be drawn here?
1) A light coloured camo is better than a dark one if your objectively chosen backgrounds all happen to be light in colour?
2) That you shouldn't choose a camo called "woodland", if the setting looks like the dry season in Middle East, and the only tree to be found is carefully avoided? ;)
I do admit that today's operations have a tendency to take place in Middle East more often than in Canadian woodlands...
-
I thought they had figured this out years ago, they just couldn't fish out the money for it.
MCU/Multicam is probably just as bad; British soldiers have been complaining about it for ages, though whether thats because they don't like change or the camo is genuinely rubbish, I don't know.
So the U.S would perhaps be better of making a new uniform, will be interesting to see what emerges from this.
Really? Our troops have been positive about it so far. If someone is 25 feet out they can't be seen.
-
Multicam or MRT is the pattern opf choice. It works better than anything else I've seen. Not sure it looks as good as a dress uniform tho.
-
Really? Our troops have been positive about it so far. If someone is 25 feet out they can't be seen.
Haha, you haven't heard all the complaints then. Just do a general search on the web and you'll find loads of examples where they dislike it. When I decided I was going to give it a shot myself, I heard no end of complaints whilst at base or during Selection. They wore the old stuff, and all out avoided the new pattern. Only time I've ever seen them wear it was yesterday on Armed forces day or on coming home parades where I believe they have no choice.
-
Soldiers moan about every fucking thing, especially uniforms. It usually means sod all.
-
I've always assumed that the reason the US armed forces change camo so often is to maximise the profits for the clothiers who are bribing the Pentagon's procurement department.
-
I've always assumed that the reason the US armed forces change camo so often is to maximise the profits for the clothiers who are bribing the Pentagon's procurement department.
FWIW, (with all the usual wikipedia warnings and warnings about self-contributed answers to surveys)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribe_Payers_Index
Another view
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/bribery-business-countries-most-likely_n_1071452.html
"... The survey asked 3,000 business executives how often firms they deal with from different countries engage in bribery, with answers ranging from 0 meaning "always" to 10, meaning "never."
Australia and Canada tied for sixth place with scores of 8.5, Singapore and Britain shared eighth place with scores of 8.3, followed by the U.S. in place 10 with a score of 8.1.
No country was seen as wholly clean, and the survey found companies were almost as likely to pay bribes to other businesses as to public officials in order to win public tenders, avoid regulations, speed up government processes or influence policy..."
And - http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2012/05/06/worlds-most-bribable-businesses/
"... Here are a few findings from another survey:
Bribery is perceived to occur in all business sectors, but is seen as most common in the public works contracts and construction sector.
The perceived likelihood of companies from a given country to bribe abroad is closely related to views on the level of business integrity at home.
The perceived likelihood of companies from a given country to bribe abroad is strongly related to perceptions of corruption in the public sector of that country.
Bribery between companies across different sectors is seen as just as common as bribery between firms and public officials..."
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bri_pay_ind-crime-bribe-payers-index
I believe the numbers speak clearly.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
I've always assumed that the reason the US armed forces change camo so often is to maximise the profits for the clothiers who are bribing the Pentagon's procurement department.
Or we are an AADHD (Adult Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) prone nation. lol ;) ;D
Gracias,
Glenn
-
Multicam as a pattern is quite good - for just about everything outside of dark old forests (think German black forest, with heavy pine, and darker overall tone). If you're going to choose one "do all" pattern, Multicam is as good as it gets. However, I know the actual Crye BDUs built originally were quite weak (just poor design, ripped often etc.). I have a lot of personal kit in Multicam and it is robustly built, but by a number of vendors.
ACU by contrast (which I wear to work) is garbage. The uniform design is "okay", but the design itself is horrible. Colour wise it's useless in just about every single environment known to man - until it's so dirty/mud-stained that it becomes effective.
I don't know if the Army will actually choose Multicam, simply because it would mean admitting that they made the wrong choice about 8 years back...and no one likes admitting they're wrong. Here's hoping for something worthwhile.