Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => SuperHero Adventures => Topic started by: styx on July 21, 2012, 04:20:10 PM
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I tossed this out on the Yahoo group and nobody has responded despite having 600 members....*shrug*
The issue came up when I was building a Berserker style figure and hit a roadblock as two rules could conflict that I feel fits the bill.
Berserker states that you autopass your first KO.
Soulless states you autofail your first KO.
So, this leads to 3 options:
1) use normal KO rules as they ignore one another
2) They can't be used together (despite the fact that neither of them states that they cannot be taken at the same time)
3) You ignore the first KO, then autofail the second.
To me, the third option makes sense, hit KO, ignore, next one, your down, no questions.
Thoughts?
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#3 makes sense, I guess it would depend on where in the makeup the powers were listed.
As it is a berserker build, it would be a primary attribute, soulless the secondary.
I think it would come down to your opponent being OK with you using this way.
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The concept is an insane Berserker style super villian, along the lines of a pro wreslter that was given something like a super solider treatment but with the steroids in his system and the agressive attitude his brain burned out for the most part. He feels no pain, no remorse, just a force of violence....
The Soulless part shows the no remorse and lack there over for a mind against mental powers...the Berserker trait is designed to keep him standing once he is pushed into a KO the first time, plus it acts as an in character guide that if there are no good guys to attack he could turn on his team....
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Wocha,
Seeing as you automatically get KO'd the second time you are getting the benefits of soulless without the drawback if you go with option 3.
I'm not seeing the benefit of a character with berserker and soulless to be honest. Berserker requires you to charge the enemy if you fail a test (a slight drawback for a fighting character if you want them to charge someone else) whilst giving you nice buffs to your M and R which soulless pretty much makes redundant anyway. Although they aren't mutually exclusive they do kind of tread on each other's toes a bit as far as character design goes.
My inclination, by dint of the following factors, is that the soulless auto fail would trump the Berserker auto pass.
1. Soulless costs 10 points and so feels like a more valuable character mod which you should have to pay the piper for. Having a 2 point power wipe out something the mod description doesn't let you get around seems like a bit of a get out of jail free card.
2. Berserker is full of buffs which you can self apply to the characters during game play or buy with a more wide ranging effect with others powers (although at a significantly higher cost). The auto pass is the only exclusive part of the rule where as almost every element of the soulless rule can only be found in the soulless rule. The rule is designed to make your character essentially magic/psychic immune at the cost of being able to be repaired by others (also a mind based test) and having to fall down first time every time.
3. Finally the specific wording (this one will sound a bit rules lawyerish). Berserker states 'model automatically passes its KO check when it loses it's last vitality point'. Whereas Soulless says 'thus automatically fail all KO checks'. As there are no other situations in which you might take a KO check other than losing your last vitality point (happy to be corrected here, nothing springs to mind) I would take the distinction to mean that soulless would override berserker.
All that being said. If you were to build the character and pay for Berserker to be a boon( I know it is a boon character mod but I mean the Boon power mod upgrade [1BP]) I would be happy to play that it overrode the auto fail of the soulless. I'd want to hear the fluff reason for it ('Yeah I know he's a battle robot but his programmer was experimenting with some new software, he's the only example of killbot 1.1 known to have been created before professor Loonyburg died in that horrible meatgrinder/acid bath accident!' or 'Despite his psychic shielding implant Gorefast of the Hoonian collective has become so accustomed to it that he has been able to integrate it's hardware with his unique psyche to a far greater degree than the rest of his people. Unfortunately for us poor humans...') but as long as you are paying even 1BP more for the override at least it's costing you cunning, a point of Edge, Pushing or something else that would be pulping my characters brains far more that my mentalist not being able to stop you.
None of this has any real merit though as the decision is yours but that's the way I'd tend to play it if the character was mine. At least that way you show your opponents that you aren't just trying to get all of the good stuff with none of the bad. :D
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Some good points and worth chewing over....thank you for the reponse there and the thoughts...
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If you treat the rules like those in a card game, CAN'T text always beats CAN. I think if you took both powers, Soulless would trump Berserker too.
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After some responses on the group also, I can see the point and agree with the fact Soulless would trump the other power....
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When we re-visit the rules I will state that the two powers cannot be used together. In my mind, you cannot have a Soulless Berserker.
So yeah, if you want an "official" ruling, don't use them together.
Hope this helps!
--Scott