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Other Stuff => Workbench => "Build Something" Archiv => Topic started by: alone_withmyaxe on November 30, 2012, 11:49:52 PM

Title: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on November 30, 2012, 11:49:52 PM: I have a tendency to start and never finish these things so here I go again!

Want to do a forest pond, not as much ambition as some of the entries, but it should compliment my fantasy woodland and offer me a few new building challenges, mainly water!

Here is my inspiration pic
(http://th02.deviantart.net/fs18/PRE/f/2007/133/c/a/forest_pond_by_polo2.jpg)

Now I need it to fit on a table top as a one off piece so it will be limited on the size I make it. I will also need to do some water test as I would prefer not to use an off the shelf effects gel. I have spent a few hours tonight chucking the main shape together and here are the first pics, including my dumb-ass sketches!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/IMG_0737.jpg)(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/IMG_0740.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/IMG_0736.jpg)

So my thoughts are that it will need some roots system action, some of my home made trees, some features in the water (dead bodies and a tentacle or a monster of some kind) and probably a tonne of PVA and gloss varnish!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Blackwolf on December 01, 2012, 04:54:28 AM: Look forward to it! Very close to mine too,though it will be more of an loch :)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 07:37:53 AM: Cheers Blackwolf, sounds like ours might be on a grander scale then mine!

If you are making a loch, does that mean a monster?
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 08:22:32 AM: Water test, pre-dry.

Think I may lack the patience for this comp!

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/2E73410E-3D5D-4442-9760-2E9FFBA7744F-5138-000004C4DB8F4796.jpg)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Admiral Benbow on December 01, 2012, 03:27:10 PM: Perhaps this can be of some help or fire your inspiration:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/5/93_28_01_10_6_02_13_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/5/93_17_01_10_10_52_24_2.jpg)

The full topic can be found here, if you'd like:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=15716.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=15716.0)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 04:09:46 PM: That is a beautiful piece, and now I may have to go and have a little cry to myself, because in my wildest dreams mine will never be as pretty...

:'(
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Elk101 on December 01, 2012, 07:14:38 PM: Stunning work Admiral, stunning. Are those hand made paper lilly pads?
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Admiral Benbow on December 01, 2012, 07:44:39 PM: Quote from: Elk101 on December 01, 2012, 07:14:38 PM
Stunning work Admiral, stunning. Are those hand made paper lilly pads?

Yes. All techniques are described when you follow the link above.

Quote from: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 04:09:46 PM
That is a beautiful piece, and now I may have to go and have a little cry to myself, because in my wildest dreams mine will never be as pretty...
:'(

Sorry, that was not my intention. I thought you could make some use of my little pond scene ... :)
It's easy, just try it.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Elk101 on December 01, 2012, 08:16:48 PM: Ah; apologies, I missed the link. One of the problems when using mobile phones! I'll give that a good read.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 10:54:35 PM: Quote from: Admiral Benbow on December 01, 2012, 07:44:39 PM
Sorry, that was not my intention. I thought you could make some use of my little pond scene ... :)
It's easy, just try it.

Actually it is really cool, I remember seeing it the first time around and being impressed and wanting to have a go, then as usual other projects get in the way until something like this comes along!

Looking at it again is really great, especially simple stuff like the colour of the pond, that was something I hadn't quite got clear in my mind so seeing yours again has inspired some thoughts toward something different. So thanks!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 01, 2012, 11:07:16 PM: Latest progress:

Having checked with Hammers on using the tree, which I have made previously, is with in the rules. Here is the latest progress.

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/F234CD6D-BE52-4BDE-A435-E9305F2EFE7D-5650-000004E9F1F2F36B.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/BFEC4817-623F-4577-90DC-7D977DD4F07B-5650-000004EA009ADF81.jpg)

Want to have some paint on this soon!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Mason on December 01, 2012, 11:21:50 PM: Looking good so far.
Very good!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Elk101 on December 02, 2012, 06:37:20 AM: I'm with Mason, it's looking great. I like the overhung area with the tree at the back.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Blackwolf on December 02, 2012, 08:42:39 AM: Love the trees,very realistic.Looking forward to seeing what you do,so far it's cracking!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 02, 2012, 11:46:55 AM: Thanks guys, still fighting with my water effects, may have to give in and go for a shop bought one, looking at this at the moment http://www.hollylovestoys.com/product.php?id_product=358 (http://www.hollylovestoys.com/product.php?id_product=358)!

Here is my tree tutorial which i posted a while back, they are really cheap and simple to make.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=26518.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=26518.0)

I am getting a small warp issue with the base, but i will have to live with that I think!

Thanks again for the comments!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 02, 2012, 10:09:52 PM: Here are the new pics of current progress,

It is very slow! I have been running some water tests alongside this and will post that too eventually. That is very slow as drying is taking so long, going to grab some varnish and do some tests on that as well. Anyway, here are the pics. Have started the root section on the overhang, I am currently out of hot glue sticks so need to pick some up from somewhere to tidy that all up. put in some paint, mainly to seal and check the textures not totally sure on colour scheme yet though brown greens seem like a possibility.

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/5CBD3089-102C-4BA6-BFF6-779B4897EEF6-5827-000004FC35D23FB4.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/87B896A8-E127-4871-B5FA-2ED56BEAAE28-5827-000004FC3DE833A1.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/68360771-17B1-4A22-A85A-0AB5971E98FE-5827-000004FC47F57923.jpg)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 04, 2012, 09:03:59 PM: So more stuff,

Bit despondent at the moment. My water tests have been going 'not as I hoped'. Here are 3 of the current 8 I have tried. All are disappointing, either cracking or air bubbles or feeling ridiculously labour intensive. Some are even all three! I am doing tests with PVA, clear nail varnish and a wood varnish. The PVA tests are varying the dilutions, all are of vaious effectiveness. The varnishes are about the layer thickness. I am hoping to try a resin based water effect but don't know which is the best to shell out cash on!

Any way here are some pics.
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/70B3B92E-21E6-4055-9CA8-8B115786DFDE-6560-000005B34F455321.jpg)

Left is a clear nail varnish put in a thickish layer, about 2.5mm deep. It has come up quite well but does have a lot of air bubbles, and a tiny bit of clouding on the edges, and my finger print!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/5B342D07-11E9-456B-897A-4E7F148B77F5-6560-000005B356926E5A.jpg)

The middle is PVA used neat and filled to the top of the test piece, basically just air bubbles and lacks the clarity I want.
Right is a layer of PVA with a layer of the GW gloss varnish, gets a good shine but has clouded badly at the edges.
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/D853893C-7102-43EB-8774-F8B77EFE12CB-6560-000005B365794087.jpg)

Here are some other pics of slightly better news!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/D8A53A70-2472-4EF6-8612-C196B689890B-6560-000005B3397502CD.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/9C7991D1-5BD6-4E90-BC6C-CEC4CBBDFA66-6560-000005B340B9DDD1.jpg)

So here is the colour to the pond base, I think it is looking pretty good. The textures have blended in nicely and I think it has a nice dark depth to it but maintaining a shallow area toward one end. All happened a bit by accident as I used too much water when I was mixing it, luckily it came out like this!

I have bogroll machéd some of the edges, which adds a bit of texture and hides the polystyrene quickly and quite cleanly. i also had some left over from starting a quick waterfall piece. It ain't for the comp but has been inspired by it, it will also form a bit of a test bed for techniques I will use here.

I need to get hold of some hot glue to be able to add some bits of detail that I am missing but have'n been anywhere to get any recently, so that is next on my mind.

Hope you all like it so far!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 04, 2012, 09:47:27 PM: The pond base colour looks good 8) Shame about the water though.

I use multiple layers of yacht varnish for my water, letting each one dry inbetween and as long as the base colour works it should be fine :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 08, 2012, 10:54:39 PM: Thanks for that Jim,

It is really a patience thing!

Here are some for tests...
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/873A0F28-43C3-4BB3-8ED1-26F1721FF32C-8925-000007CDEC7F92FC.jpg)
This is a Varnish test using a quick drying clear gloss Varnish, DIY store branded. Clear and gloss seem to be a bit of a lie!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/26845602-656E-4BB2-BA80-5D0523697181-8925-000007CDE5B703E3.jpg)
This test I filled the base to the brim and it dried awfully!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/653B5710-79EE-47C4-A4F7-61B4CF89F855-8925-000007CDDF75051E.jpg)
The other two were progressively less varnish, but resulted in the same issue of not being flat and clear. Basically a waste of time and effort I think!

So on to something much better!
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/74249A99-6B1E-4BF0-A593-C81B82F9D97E-8925-000007CDD0471BE3.jpg)
Far left and right are clear nail varnish applied in multiple layers. The middle is a thinned PVA, which went as well as the not thinned!

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/F78B2FA4-1BAF-4844-BC04-97845DD16FF7-8925-000007CDC9738725.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/F561F831-6A5E-4D4A-A20F-3C0BACB9F66E-8925-000007CDC1800BED.jpg)
These have both come out well, they have a good shine and are really clean. There are some air bubble issues, but thinner layers or slower movement should sort that. It dries in 60 seconds apparently so I was able to apply multiple layers within the hour, although I gave it 10 minutes to be sure.

So I have a winner!

Well no! the stuff costs £3 per bottle, so a bit too pricey and would probably be tough to apply on a large area as it will be drying before its first layer is applied. On a base scale i think it is an easy win. What I want is a bit too tricky for it. So I am currently testing a GW water effects and which has gone much better, though still issues prompting a 2nd test. I hate to say it but I am opting to go for a propriety solution, probably Magic Water. I will still be doing tests so I will do a fuller write up for anyone interested once I have done all my test pieces.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 08, 2012, 11:40:05 PM: With the varnish it certainly is a patience thing. I generally leave a good few days between coats (helps to minimise finger prints).

The varnish has to be yacht as it has a depth of colour and it's also seems to be more viscous than your normal gloss, clear stuff. The colour has a brown tint to it which really adds to any base colour you have.

Give it another go, go on, you know you want to ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Blackwolf on December 09, 2012, 12:20:23 AM: Looking good :) With the air bubble problem,I find a sharp needle works well ::) The trick is to wipe it clean after each go,other wise the surface tension created by the build up just displace the bubble,so you end up chasin it around your terrain piece o_o
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 14, 2012, 09:01:07 PM: Thanks for all the tips guys, I have gone with the magic water in the end. I think it is actually really good having tried all the other stuff!

Here are the test pieces,
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/1F466969-540A-4EF7-A92C-B3C1A7DD49C1-11474-00000A25D0031A2E.jpg)
This Magic water on the left and GW on the right and in the middle. On of the GW tests got splashed and that has marked it. It had been curing before it got wet for over 24 hours but still stained. The other used 2 layers and got the clouding in it on the second layer. Bit disappointed with its results.

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/553D4400-2FF7-499A-86BE-1ECD6BF44C40-11474-00000A25C8D45E2A.jpg)
This is the magic water, filled to the same level as the GW stuff and has come out totally flat. when I mixed it it was also full of air bubbles and they have vanished as well. I made up too much which is an issue so I did two larger tests.

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/588C4D18-F71D-4B71-94EE-4886AC609529-11474-00000A25A1EB5522.jpg)
This is a large pool, sat at the bottom of a waterfall (still to be completed).

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/67FE3377-B050-4A5E-AFB9-F4FB1B472F5D-11474-00000A2598F7C458.jpg)
This was a colour test using GW acrylics to get a murky pool feel, it has just been poured in to a pot and I think it still looks alright despite not having any border etc.

They were all poured at the same time with about 75ml of the product which mixed really easily. It took about 36-48 hours to cure but is now solid with a slightly rubbery feel. It is a little tacky to touch, but I have wiped it with water and acetone without leaving any noticeable marks. It is pretty impressive stuff!

I would love to know what Blackwolf is using http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=48428.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=48428.0) as that just looks incredible. I have, I think now found my water!

(Sorry to be a bit of a product review, but after all the disappointments I am quite impressed with this stuff!)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Mitch K on December 15, 2012, 10:31:15 AM: I've done quite a lot of rod building over the years, and the thick, deep, totally level high gloss varnish coverings on the thread bindings are done using a thinnish, slow-drying two pack epoxy. Basically you would mix it, apply it then apply gentle heat until it levelled out. Then turn the rod slowly for about two days till its fully hardened - I had a little machine for this.

Provided you set the lake flat to start with you wouldn't need to bother with turning, as it would self level.

The brand I used to use was Gibbs Rod Wrap. It's very transparent, or seemed so. The colours of the wrapping thread were quite "true" after coating, and certainly not grossly yellowed. The downside is its quite dear - about ten quid for 60ml last time I bought any IIRC.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 15, 2012, 09:52:14 PM: Quote from: Mitch K on December 15, 2012, 10:31:15 AM
I've done quite a lot of rod building over the years, and the thick, deep, totally level high gloss varnish coverings on the thread bindings are done using a thinnish, slow-drying two pack epoxy. Basically you would mix it, apply it then apply gentle heat until it levelled out. Then turn the rod slowly for about two days till its fully hardened - I had a little machine for this.

Cool, got any examples?
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (progress pics)
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 15, 2012, 10:00:20 PM: Finally some progress!

So I have been doing some building and painting and stuff, here are the pics.

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/FCADB590-62F4-4FA2-BA4F-E856DFDE5624-11474-00000A48C2FDD377.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/47D5D1C2-69EB-4DBB-B56E-3E2AB5C9EF29-11474-00000A48D6C5CCEF.jpg)
From...

To...
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/9754883F-2620-49AD-A85D-801DDBC0F78B-734-00000074A4549EC6.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/9D43CE72-0FC4-4C83-A351-3E8B1604DAB2-743-000000757FC1D9E6.jpg)

Ironically I may need to build a new tree for this rather then using my old test piece as I can't match the colour!

I have also been playing with a waterfall as this comp has inspired me so much, here is the WIP.
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/248A2CFB-6F2F-496A-BFC7-E7CCE138F145-734-000000748C20B4A2.jpg)
This is just for fun though, the pond will be my entry, unless it goes totally pete tong!!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 15, 2012, 11:19:26 PM: I like the colours you've used for the pond, both for the ground and the pool bottom itself 8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: Mitch K on December 16, 2012, 10:13:53 AM: Quote from: alone_withmyaxe on December 15, 2012, 09:52:14 PM
Cool, got any examples?

I'll dig a rod out and photograph it!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 16, 2012, 11:28:16 PM: Last progress for the weekend...

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/21B8ABE6-A2E9-4485-BD93-50C9550FCFAA-1652-000000E5F5083ACF.jpg)

This comp has been a bit too much of an inspiration!

I have started a waterfall, a fisherman's hut, swamp tiles and am thinking about building a rowboat!!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 27, 2012, 02:27:27 PM: The current progress!

(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/A8118EB3-E177-4182-AD91-A5D311C9555A-1494-000001172446EDC5.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/8F85E4C9-2CBF-42B4-AEA3-18191A28D2BF-1494-00000117508EAF6C.jpg)
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/43513085-687D-45B0-B65F-B32CC1C158C1-1494-000001175BFE9985.jpg)

So water is now in, which went pretty well, I had added scatter to part and the water id wick in to it and overflow a tad! Managed to save it with a post pour scatter!

I think it is getting there, the water sets it off nicely, although it is a little still maybe, not sure.

It is almost there, but I feel it needs more green around the pool to show the fertility of the surrounding soil.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 27, 2012, 04:07:28 PM: That looks grand :-*

Yes, a bit more greenery around the edges would set it off nicely, small shrubs etc.

Which water did you go for in the end as it looks very good indeed and I don't see a problem with it being to smooth 8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: marianas_gamer on December 28, 2012, 02:14:56 AM: Your experimentation really paid off! The water effect is just great - in large part because of the initial painting. Like James, I would appreciate a follow on post letting us know what you used in the end. Very nice evolution of this project.
LB
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Blackwolf on December 28, 2012, 04:28:28 AM: The water looks great!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on December 28, 2012, 11:17:57 AM: Good job, Alone! :-*
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: carlos marighela on December 28, 2012, 02:38:19 PM: That looks sensational.
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 29, 2012, 09:25:43 AM: Thanks everyone!

It is coming together now, so I may not be able to show off too many more pics as it is getting to the finished stage.
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/alone_withmyaxe/Build%20something/8E0D038C-66DD-45E0-B992-401FDDE1B2E8-399-000000291E3B9013.jpg)

I will do a write up for the water I have used as I think it is very good and incredibly simple to use, It is called Magic Water. I am not sure if anyone else here has done one so I will chuck up some notes about it and what I think soon.

This has been great fun and the whole process has been a great learning curve. As I say I have also made a waterfall because of the inspiration of this contest, and there are plans for a river also on the table!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Sangennaru on December 29, 2012, 09:59:51 AM: promising! I'm curious to see the final outcome!
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on December 29, 2012, 10:38:40 AM: I have done the Magic Water write up for anyone interested!

That is the stuff I have used for the water in the pond

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=49152.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=49152.0)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Andym on December 29, 2012, 04:48:41 PM: Looking really good! :o
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Johnnytodd on December 29, 2012, 04:59:22 PM: Waterfall is looking terrific! Thanks for the tutorial - will give it a try sometime soon
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: alone_withmyaxe on January 04, 2013, 08:24:01 PM: Have managed to get my entry in, been suffering for the past week with awful man flu!

Just had my confirmation and now back to bed!

Good luck everybody :)
Title: Re: Alone's forest pond (almost there!)
Post by: Blackwolf on January 04, 2013, 08:32:13 PM: Lovely work Alone :-* So many brilliant entry's,it going to be hard to vote :)