Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: King Tiger on February 01, 2013, 04:14:06 PM
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Suprised I haven't seen this posted yet, warlords latest newsletter pre release showing.
http://www.warlordgames.com/31242/pre-order-soviet-t-3485-medium-tank/
http://www.warlordgames.com/store/t34-85-medium-tank.html
Now while I think it being plastic is quite cool, I think they missed (yet another) opportunity (very common for WG these days) its £20...the resin one is £24 and the diewaffenkammer one can be brought for £22.
So its £2-4 less and that's it, to me that seems very meh, really they probably should of given you the parts to make either a 85 or 76, that would seem worth £20, but as is, it's far from exciting and considering warlords average delivery times of 2-3 months like I say I think they have missed something here that could of been quite awesome.
Yes plastic is easier to work with, but I would still pick the waffenkammer one myself, despite costing £2 more
http://www.greatescapegames.co.uk/miniatures/miniatures-rules-of-engagement/tanks-1/tanks-soviet/dwru005.html
After the amazing quality of the tiger I I got from waffenkammer saving such a tiny amount will not turn me.
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the box also includes decals, ok they are small, but still it is a factor to consider. I have one DWK Stug and to be quite honest I was not overly happy with it, nice model but not awesome as I was thinking.
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Model looks ok but twenty quid for a plastic kit isn't really that good a deal. Twenty pounds is around $30 AUD. For $23 AUD or £15 I can get a superbly detailed Hobby Boss 1/48 T-34 from a model shop here. And that comes with decals, brass fittings and a complete (and I do mean complete) interior should I be disposed to build it. You can buy the same kit at Hannants in the UK for a tenner. I have one, not exactly a quick build but a lovely and relatively cheap model.
Yeah, yeah it's all about volume of sale, we know. I really wonder what would have happened has PSC come out with a 1/56 version of their T-34 kits as they originally promised. If they can do things at a similar or cheaper price point than Italeri then I reckon Warlord could get closer to the price of a Hobby Boss kit. It's all made in the same place anyway.
Still if they release a platoon deal with a big discount I may well order one, I need some for my Egyptians.
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20 pounds for a plastic T34/85 ? :o
What is the logic for that price, i am sincerely curious ???
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I have the DWK T-34/85, got it for half-price through Northstar last autumn. I wonder how this one scales to DWK then... I hope I could get couple of these with discount from my FLGS to bolster my Soviets (and surprise my friend lol ).
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It looks good to me but not at that price I guess.
Isn't the point of plastics to make things cheaper? If there were three tanks in that box I would gladly pay 20 pounds.
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20 pounds for a plastic T34/85 ? :o
What is the logic for that price, i am sincerely curious ???
GW logic perhaps?
"nobody else does it in plastic so we can charge anything we want and your moro.....err we mean 'loyal customers' will buy it anyway"
£18 I think would of been spot on for my wallet.
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GW logic perhaps?
"nobody else does it in plastic so we can charge anything we want and your moro.....err we mean 'loyal customers' will buy it anyway"
£18 I think would of been spot on for my wallet.
Still a lot cheaper than a tank from Games Workshop though.
In fact, twenty pounds seems fairly reasonable for a tank. After all, it is still cheaper than a resin kit or a diecast vehicle.
If the extra two pounds is bothering you so much I'm sure Caliver Books or another retailer will be selling it at a discounted rate.
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How far in time can we use this tank without major (visible) conversion? Would it look out of place in a Vietnam war setting for example? Or any other "minor" conflict of the 20th century?
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It was still in use by many countries up until 1996 according to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Korean_War_.281950.E2.80.931951.29
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You could conceivably use a T-34/85 up until the present, thousands were exported and there's bound to be a runner left somewhere on the planet. Last operational use I think was the 1990s in Bosnia but they've seen use in all the Middle East Wars, Vietnam, Angola, the Bay of Pigs, etc, etc. Factories in Poland were churning them out into the late 1950s.
Technically speaking many of the export models were slightly modified prior to export but byou would have to be pretty anal to notice.
Twenty quid a good price point for a tank? Well maybe but from customer point of view I can get one of Bob Winward's truly amazing 1/50 resin tanks like an M1A1 or a Challenger 2 that detail wise is going to leave these for dead and will absolutely dwarf them for size for £22. From a customer POV I'm not so sure that £20 for a plastic tank is that good a deal.
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Still a lot cheaper than a tank from Games Workshop though.
In fact, twenty pounds seems fairly reasonable for a tank. After all, it is still cheaper than a resin kit or a diecast vehicle.
If the extra two pounds is bothering you so much I'm sure Caliver Books or another retailer will be selling it at a discounted rate.
Hence why I don't buy GW's vehicles...or infantry...or rulebooks.
And no £20 is fine for a high quality 1/56th scale resin model.
Or a 1/35th scale fine detail tamiya model kit (the T34-76 being £19.99)
This is neither of those, so I personally don't see a point in it, I may as well spend the extra £2 and get a quality resin product since I'm not going to save anything in the first place.
It's a shame since the plastic Russians are not a bad price, they make the other plastic box sets seem expensive.
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It's a shame since the plastic Russians are not a bad price, they make the other plastic box sets seem expensive.
Well I don't know about the quality of 28mm WW2 Russians by PSC but one does get lots of stuff from their army deal for £35... the minis are then again one-pose but nice deal nevertheless.... actually I should order that, just for the mortars, HMGs and infantry gun.
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Well I don't know about the quality of 28mm WW2 Russians by PSC but one does get lots of stuff from their army deal for £35... the minis are then again one-pose but nice deal nevertheless.... actually I should order that, just for the mortars, HMGs and infantry gun.
Think Airfix circa 1965 but less definition and arguably worse posing.
I bought a set on spec as source of spare bits. Havent touched it so far. Pity, their 15mm and 20mm stuff is actually quite nice.
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Ok, good to know. I will then steer away from their infantry at least.
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Tell me King Tiger do you work for the compition. It sure sounds like you do. The price isn't bad. I've gotten a number of things from Warlord and have been very pleased with the purchases. If you have such a hate on for Warlord maybe you should look elsewhere for your gaming product. Or just play board games.
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Hate?, no
Working for competition?, no
And no the price is fine, for a resin model or plastic model with 76 and 85 turrets.
And I already do look for my gaming elsewhere as I cannot afford to do many things gaming wise.
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Tell me King Tiger do you work for the compition. It sure sounds like you do. The price isn't bad. I've gotten a number of things from Warlord and have been very pleased with the purchases. If you have such a hate on for Warlord maybe you should look elsewhere for your gaming product. Or just play board games.
A bit harsh I think... there's quite a gulf between having a 'hate on' and having a 'hard on' for Warlord Games it seems. ;)
I've also bought stuff from Warlord and have been quite happy too... but I think that it's fair comment by King Tiger that paying resin prices for a plastic tank is somewhat off, as are some of the other prices, at least at face value.
If you compare basic prices of Warlord Plastics, to those of the Perrys, for example, there's a general £10 mark up on a box of 40 infantry by Warlord. Whether or not there is 'added content' from Warlord in their boxes, or not, I don't know, but the price difference does appear to be suspect.
As always though, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but there wouldn't be much point having a forum if we didn't talk about it.
:)
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I find warlord quality to be acceptable, on some things at least, the metal Japanese infantry were awful, the metal quality was bad, I was fortunate none of the legs broke off considering how easy it felt like they would, it was like working with lead.
And yes I would never touch the Napoleonic range, £18-20 for 32 models which are usually different boxes for different periods/units with metal command 4mm shorter than the rest of the men
Or Perry where its 40-46 figures for £18, have different heads included and plastic command the correct height.
But that's napoleonics not WWII, in that range I just dislike the fact the artillery is so expensive, £16 for a pak 40?, the one from crusader or artisan only costs £12
The tanks they have seem to be £2-4 more expensive than competitors and the range takes so long to get anywhere, we still don't have panzer III tanks despite being a major tank from the war, but we have an AA panther and silly 6 panzerfaust thing...why?
Not to say some things have not been good, the plastic halftrack is cool and the price is ok at £15.
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No Arlequin my comment wasn't too harsh. If you read any other threads that have to deal with Warlord games you will see that King Tiger has nothing really good to say. As a matter of fact it's always been negative towards the product. But its a free world and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You have to remember that we are involved in this hobby because it is our hobby. The companies are involved in this hobby because it is a business. Yes it's true that their people are also into the hobby as well. They make a good product. If you are the type of person who likes to go overboard and fill your army lists with tons of tanks. Then yeah maybe there prices may be a little high. If that is what you like to do then maybe this is the wrong scale for you to be playing in.
King Tiger. I don't know you but I do know that I have been gaming longer then you have been alive. I have seen companies charging ridiculous high prices, more than you know. The product was not worth the price. But I don't keep going on and on with negative feedback. I just don't buy from them. Just because its not my cup of tea dosen't mean it isn't someone elses. I live in BC Canada things are expensive here. But I don't mind paying the extra amount for quality. Again you might decide that it isn't the high quality that you may think. But you need to remember that these items are plastic models that are made using moulds and will not be able to show all of the minute parts that you may find on say a laser cut modle. But then you aren't paying the high price of the laser cut parts.
I do apologize if this has offended anybody. But it is my honest opinion
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No Arlequin my comment wasn't too harsh. If you read any other threads that have to deal with Warlord games you will see that King Tiger has nothing really good to say. As a matter of fact it's always been negative towards the product.
You are completely wrong, but nevermind.
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Can we discuss this without it becoming personal? :)
You both make valid points from where I'm sitting and on reading my post, I can see I may have 'poked the embers' a bit... sorry.
I don't consider Warlord's pricing to be excessive, they are way off that at present. However I do think they are priced somewhat above what is necessary. Regardless though, the market will determine this through actual sales.
The general positive for plastics within the hobby, is built on the belief that some of the advantages of using cheaper materials will be passed on to the customer, not solely used to increase the profit margin of the company making them. Making plastics isn't cheap initially, but pays for itself in the long run. Manufacturers generally claim 'cost' is the reason for the switch after all though.
I agree with Nighthawk though, if you don't like it, don't buy it. I would buy something above what I would normally pay, if there was no other option and that item was an 'essential' item to me. In this case there are other options available.
As for Warlord Games itself, I've no axe to grind. While I think they offer quite good products on the whole, when you look at the old Bolt Action figures, they aren't as good now as the original figures were, which have since disappeared...
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I also think that the price is a bit excessive, I have no negativity towards Warlord but i have noticed that the WW2 plastics are not good value IMHO. Interestingly I have noticed a surge in new/ younger Bolt Action players and recently after a few guys commenting on my late war Germans i had to explain that they were from Artizan!! They were not aware of other WW2 miniatures!!! unbelievable in this internet age, but true!!
i hope that Warlord are not maneuvering into a 28mm Flames of War clone, charging top dollar for historical miniatures.
FFF
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They are now advertising a platoon pack of three for forty eight quid, which brings the price down to £16 per unit + postage, which isn't too bad.
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But do you nééd 3 tanks? ;)
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Yep. Actually I could do with two platoon's worth. A platoon's worth in desert yellow for Egyptians and Iraqis circa 1961-65 and another in bog standard Soviet green for Cubans and the like. :)
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Didn't see that coming :D . In that case: Good deal! lol
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I hope that Warlord are not maneuvering into a 28mm Flames of War clone, charging top dollar for historical miniatures.
FFF
I think you'll find this is the case. We aren't talking about a guy making stuff in his garage though, so there are overheads to take into account, hence the pricing.
On the positive side, it all goes to funding the next wave of releases... ;)
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You could just buy the stuff from Dave Thomas, et al, who will always undercut Warlord prices....
I bought Bolt ACtion from the US, as it was cheaper to buy it and ship it over, than pick it up from the Warlord stand I was checking out at a show..... This is, of course, why they have the bribe of a free figure!
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But do you nééd 3 tanks? ;)
For alternate rule systems? (shockingly bolt action is not the only 28mm system)
Russian desant forces?
Maybe use the 3 tanks for alternative forces? (captured German/finnish lend leased polish)
Larger games
Lots of reasons why you might or why you could need/want/use 3 tanks.
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On the positive side, it all goes to funding the next wave of releases... ;)
I wonder why noone uses this argument when it comes to GW pricing....
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So, you guys missed that you can buy one seperately?
http://www.warlordgames.com/store/t34-85-medium-tank.html (http://www.warlordgames.com/store/t34-85-medium-tank.html)
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No, we just noted that they are cheaper if bought in lots of three.
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Ah, alright.
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Is it just me or warlord have the bad tendency of not showing the sprues of their plastic releases… I find it really annoying >:(
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On a related but broader note; since Warlord are taking on plastic vehicle kits now, has there been any word of them doing a plastic jeep?
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I was thinking I could make a post apoc vehicle out of a t34/85 although without the turret and extra armour.
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But do you nééd 3 tanks? ;)
what would you do with a smaller amount of tanks o_o ???
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what would you do with a smaller amount of tanks o_o ???
Feel puny and less of a man, to be honest. lol
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All your opinions are invalid! This is clearly a totally absurd/ fairly reasonable price for a 28mm tank from a company that is clearly/unfairly labelled as a GW clone! I am outraged/ pleased to see this release and hope they produce more/collapse in financial ruin!
...oh, am I too late? Damn. Always next time, I suppose.
(£18 does seem a bit steep, actually, but I'll leave it to others to argue this one... ::) )
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I totally agree/disagree and enjoy/detest Your attitude lol
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I wonder why no one uses this argument when it comes to GW pricing....
Because they have shareholders... and they are just bad. I don't know why they are bad, but they are, I read it here somewhere. ;)
But do you nééd 3 tanks? ;)
Yes, that's how they come, like infantry, in units. Sometimes they come in fives, sometimes in twos, but very rarely as a single vehicle. I could say the same for heavy weapons too, but I'd probably have my home surrounded by a torch bearing mob.
;)
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In Bolt Action they come in singles, as the games is built around a single reinforced infantry platoon. It is also built on the premise that your 6x4 table is mealy one small part of a bigger battle, and so while tanks are certainly deployed in threes, or fives or what ever, there is only one available in your bit of the battle. I know it's a bit of a leap, but there you go. That's Bolt Action.
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I know it's a bit of a leap, but there you go. That's Bolt Action.
I imagine this will become a sort of catch phrase for the game somehow... not so much because of the rules, which I like, and which also show a lot of promise outside of their original use, but due to some of the people playing it.
From comments passed on the forum, I'm already imagining someone explaining to Churchill that he should drop the Bren from the army's TO&E, as it's not worth the points just for an extra fire dice.
::)
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but there you go. That's Bolt Action.
Unless your not playing bolt action or you alter it to suit your games/scenarios, just like every single rules system in existence
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He's right you know....
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lol lol lol
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OK.
Purchased one this week, just finishing up the painting. In summary? It's an excellent piece of kit. Looks the business, the track sag of the two part tracks is excellent and it's an absolute doddle to build. It even comes with a crew figure with a choice of arms allowing you to pose it in a couple of ways.
Really very happy with the purchase. Now I'll have to buy a couple of their platoon deals.
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You must post some pics of this - quite interested in how it looks!