Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Deadspace1 on March 06, 2013, 08:37:23 PM

Title: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 06, 2013, 08:37:23 PM

So upon trawling the interwebs the other day I stumbled upon this fantastic manufacturer.

http://sciborminiatures.com (http://sciborminiatures.com)

This guys stuff is simply amazing but by far the cream of the crop are these guys...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oYegxhajRrk/UTYzYnvn6dI/AAAAAAAAAYo/GhRAMCsk9a0/s400/Leman+Russ.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jggjs0upoI0/UTYzatyB4JI/AAAAAAAAAY0/aC2XjR7dW_Y/s400/Roboute+Gulliman.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0wj6vWShk3s/UTYza1ttTgI/AAAAAAAAAY8/3SfDDwmlA-0/s400/Mortarrion.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nzgsGpGK3OM/UTYza0S2veI/AAAAAAAAAZA/WyfUiaWjO-4/s400/Lion+El+Johnson.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P19pTevhj1A/UTYzca5YomI/AAAAAAAAAZU/dSMFdH2SYD0/s400/Sanguinius.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h4bQdj-mw6s/UTYzcO56tNI/AAAAAAAAAZM/rwS_zkoRlbs/s400/Rogal+Dorn.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gRmNEEY6Ppw/UTYz6S8HlOI/AAAAAAAAAZc/4xHeIMZSsyk/s400/Horus+2.jpg)

If these aren't the best damn Primarch models out there I challenge anyone to find better!

There are a bunch of other great models on there but I just love these.  :-*

Have you guys found any better ones when trawling the depths of the internet?

If so, post them up!

Phil

Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Gibby on March 06, 2013, 09:21:30 PM
While I can appreciate the talent, I do find Scibor's stuff to be a bit 'busy' and the style doesn't really do it for me. I do wonder if their love of NMM painting is to blame, though, as I'm definitely not a fan of that. Turns swords into slate so it does.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 06, 2013, 09:33:07 PM
I can see what you mean man, they are definitely more 'exaggerated' than even GW sculpts. There's just something about them, especially the emperor and Sanguinius models. Price points isn't too bad either when compared to comparable models out there.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 06, 2013, 10:21:28 PM
Cream of the crop?  No sorry seen his work for years now. Press moulded stuff that doesn't inspire. At least he's actually sculpting all the pieces now as he's past efforts sold on ebay were noted for poor finish and blatantly ripped off GW parts.

 :?





Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Legion1963 on March 06, 2013, 11:09:16 PM
I always here Wagner when i see miniatures like that. Weird huh?
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Elbows on March 06, 2013, 11:18:16 PM
They always struck me as interesting pieces if you wanted to win a Golden Demon or something.

However, I much prefer his line of dwarves.  Pretty good lookin' stuff (never seen them un-painted though)

(http://www.sciborminiatures.com/i/lato_2009/big/dwarf_miner02.jpg)

(http://www.sciborminiatures.com/i/2010/big/dwarf_champion_02_02.jpg)

Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Vermis on March 06, 2013, 11:21:47 PM
Wot Vyper said.  Sorry Deadspace!  The guy can sculpt to a reasonable standard when he wants or has to, although it usually turns out a bit blobby and I don't see much that's exceptional when his true 'talent' is on display.

The not-space-marines... like Vyper says they've got a long history, and they're just a wee bit polarising.  I think it's that what gets me most of all.  What I see is basic space marine armour (hardly overcomplicated) with too much reliance on pressmoulded gewgaws - mostly armour panels, greaves etc., but also cereal-box guns and possibly GW heads - and then I see crowds of GW fans going nuts over them...

So the pressmoulded panels do look pretty and I am a bit envious of the market he's tapped into, but that's well overshadowed by the sense of laziness, unoriginality, overblown designs and overblown hype, misdirected praise, and that his success helped along others like Chapterhouse Studios and Hitech Miniatures.  I know sculptors can go and do their own thing and not worry about what anyone else is doing, but I still get the feeling that Scibor's factory-assembly output generally devalues what might be called real skill.

But, that's my take. ;)

TL;DR: see avatar to left.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: janner on March 07, 2013, 07:42:39 AM
He's certainly attracted a lot of flak over the years.

Forge World's move into the Horus Heresy has pulled the ground from under his feet to a degree. So it'll be interesting to see how he will respond.

Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 08:52:20 AM
Wow!  :o I didn't realise he was such a polarising sculptor?

So are his models not of great quality overall? I just ordered some resin bases from him which should arrive pretty soon.

I can certainly see what you guys mean tho, they are a little too close to the GW design. But, in the pictures anyway, they seem to have a lot of character?! Maybe I'm just distracted by the shiny paint jobs.  :D

On that note I have an update for this post. It seems the day after I decide I'm going to be getting some of these models he takes the (not) Emperor and (not) Horus models off his site!

I wonder if the GW arbiters have finally paid him a visit?!  :?
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Commander Vyper on March 07, 2013, 09:07:45 AM
He's been doing this sort of stuff for years.  The real shame is he's lazy and can sculpt when pushed but would rather make money from the gw fanbois.

 If you want good resin bases give dragon forge and fenris a go.

Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 09:32:48 AM
I've previously looked at Dragon Forge. They do some great stuff and are definitely on my 'to buy' list in the future.

I've only just recently started painting stuff from non GW manufacturers (see my post in Post Apoc) so this really is a journey of discovery for me!
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 07, 2013, 11:49:27 AM
I agree with the comments here; far and away from being the cream of the crop.

- The sculpts are deliberately chunky/blobby because it is easier to cast and ship without defects or breakages.

- The panels are press-moulded from CAD printouts (although he used to make them by hand and has a tutorial on his website to show you how).

- Every detail is overly busy, and feels lazy and tacked on. Examples include ropes that are just GS strands roughly twisted together instead of being properly sculpted, and roughly-cut GS press-moulded panels stuck on crudely with GS blobs.

- The guy can sculpt. And sculpt well. But he freely admits he'd rather make money from press-moulded rubbish than sculpt stuff properly that sells poorly by comparison (and who can blame him?).

That's not to say that everything he does is terrible; some of his models have been better than GW's offerings, and the casting quality is high. But his offerings generally feel stale and opportunistic, and really are a far cry from good sculpting.

Regarding bases:

I think that Fenris' are some of the best you can buy in terms of value for money, and he has a good range of designs to choose from. Personally though, I do find them a bit... Gritty? The material he uses to cast with seems to be bulked out with something that leaves a rough texture on everything at any rate. I do like his stuff though (they just need more work to clean up) and I have quite a few sets.

Dragonforge Designs' offerings are my favourite however. The quality of the cast, material and base design is the gold standard as far I'm concerned.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Elbows on March 07, 2013, 11:59:33 AM
While I'm not overly moved by much of his work, I guess you can put me in the camp of "I don't give a sh_t how it's done...as long as the outcome is good".   lol  If I needed something he made, I'd have no problem buying it, regardless of his technique.  I think he's pretty smart and has obviously struck a gigantic gold mine by pandering to the GW audience.

For instance, I have zero issue with some of the awesome models which are 3D computer designed now days.  I have zero interest in how the product is produced - as long as the end product is what I'm looking for.  Now, saying all that - I've never handled a scibor piece, so they could be crap when you receive them.  Eh.  If you like what he produces, go for it.  Why not.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 07, 2013, 11:59:33 AM
While I'm not overly moved by much of his work, I guess you can put me in the camp of "I don't give a sh_t how it's done...as long as the outcome is good".   lol  If I needed something he made, I'd have no problem buying it, regardless of his technique.  I think he's pretty smart and has obviously struck a gigantic gold mine by pandering to the GW audience.

For instance, I have zero issue with some of the awesome models which are 3D computer designed now days.  I have zero interest in how the product is produced - as long as the end product is what I'm looking for.  Now, saying all that - I've never handled a scibor piece, so they could be crap when you receive them.  Eh.  If you like what he produces, go for it.  Why not.

I agree with this man but I guess I can see the other side of the argument as well, artistic integrity is a rare commodity these days. As a consumer though I'll still be buying whatever I think looks good. No doubt making mistakes along the way (Wargames factory zombies, I'm looking at you!!!).

Once the bases arrive I'll post up my impressions for anyone that's interested too.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 07, 2013, 12:22:28 PM
My post wasn't about artistic integrity... It was about poor and lazy detailing.

If you you want to see stuff that's CAD-sculpted and looks great, then check out the recent released from Statuesque Miniatures.

If you you want to see stuff that's CAD-sculpted and looks shit, then check out anything released by Wargames Factory.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Elbows on March 07, 2013, 12:34:40 PM
I'm torn because I really like half of the Wargames Factory stuff I've had...and half of it is absolute crap.  For dirt cheap kits for converting though, I don't think they can be beat.  Guess I have weird tastes.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
The Zombies were just terrible and are now sitting in there box waiting to be used on bases and the likes. Very little detail and just bad casting all round really. I don't think I'll be buying any of there models again.

@ Major_Gilbear

Thanks for bringing statuesque to my attention man, some of their stuff is top notch! Love the S.O.E. Kill Team!
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Momotaro on March 07, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
Worth mentioning, Major_Gilbear, that the Eisenkern stormtroopers we've seen in a couple of threads here are produced by Wargames Factory for Dreamforge.  When they get decent CAD models to work with, they can produce quality stuff.

I have a few of Andrew Rae's minis from Otherworld, Crooked Dice and Heresy, and those Statuesque minis are just  :-*
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Vermis on March 07, 2013, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 07, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
Worth mentioning, Major_Gilbear, that the Eisenkern stormtroopers we've seen in a couple of threads here are produced by Wargames Factory for Dreamforge.  When they get decent CAD models to work with, they can produce quality stuff

WF took a turn for the better when they had that very public change of management.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 07, 2013, 09:55:19 PM
Quote from: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
@ Major_Gilbear

Thanks for bringing statuesque to my attention man, some of their stuff is top notch! Love the S.O.E. Kill Team!

No worries! If you're looking for cool games and fantastic miniatures now that you're branching out, I'm sure we can all give you some more suggestions.  8)

Quote from: Momotaro on March 07, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
Worth mentioning, Major_Gilbear, that the Eisenkern stormtroopers we've seen in a couple of threads here are produced by Wargames Factory for Dreamforge.  When they get decent CAD models to work with, they can produce quality stuff.
I know (and I didn't mention it because I didn't want to get drawing into potentially long explanations about the cross-over resources between different miniatures companies), but although WGF provided the resources, it was Dreamforge that did all the real work. WGF left to their own devices just seem to produce rubbish though.  :?

Quote from: Momotaro on March 07, 2013, 05:51:06 PM
those Statuesque minis are just  :-*
I know, aren't they just?  :-*
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Deadspace1 on March 07, 2013, 11:10:25 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 07, 2013, 09:55:19 PM
No worries! If you're looking for cool games and fantastic miniatures now that you're branching out, I'm sure we can all give you some more suggestions.  8)

That would be wicked man. I'm always on the look out for cool new stuff!  :P

Saying that, I've already been doing a lot of looking. I reckon Dark Age is my next port of call after I've finished up the Lead Adventure models I'm painting now that is.  :D
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: smokezombie on March 08, 2013, 12:22:52 AM
I'm going to chip in here and day that if your looking for some characterful minis and a fun game then have a peek at artizan designs and the game Strange Aeons.
Title: Re: For the Emperor (Or Not....)
Post by: Ramshackle_Curtis on March 08, 2013, 10:40:11 PM
Yeah hey check out my stuff too  ;)

But really, Scibor? I mean, look at the first model posted. The way the hand grips the gun looks rubbish. And the handle for the gun is bad, the gun itself is just a box with details. The anatomy is awful, the design just bad and t prices stupid. If he sold this stuff for £5 or even £6 then I might say go for it, but these things are like £24! Yeah right

I mean, good luck to the guy, but its just not for me.