Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Mad Doc Morris on April 10, 2008, 07:03:28 PM
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Intrigued by recently watching again the old 'Sharpe' series, I've pondered the idea of some small skirmish scale scenarios for the Napoleonic wars. Setting and story seem perfect for heroic fights and the like. Now I'm wondering which set of rules to use. I took a close look at the demo version of Gloire. The 'micro-scale' is very appealing, but I'm not sure if and how to modify the rules so as to better reflect Napoleonic warfare.
I have to admit that I'm not very experienced and as such not keen on changing or inventing rules. So if you like to throw in your suggestions or mad ideas for weapons, characters, scenarios etc. etc. - Or if you have another ruleset which you could recommend - do it, all input is much valued!
This thread should be a kind of brainstorming, before I get stuck into a new idea which could've done with a little thought beforehand. :D
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As a completely biased and unreliable observer, I think you could make Gloire work for Sharpe. The only issue is that with the small board sizes, Sharpe & Co. will get off one shot before the Frenchies will be on them with bayonets, so you'd have to work to create scenarios that were more than "pot that fellow, somebody!"
I think you should give yourself more license to change the rules around. Rules work only if they give you a game that feels right. If it doesn't "feel" right, change it! Don't worry about balance! Gloire can take quite a bit of abuse before it gets all wonky, so I think you should feel free to change it around a bit.
If you want a slightly shootier game, play around with the reloading rules. Right now in Gloire they are VERY slow, and if you want a little more of a skirmish feel, you might reduce the time it takes to reload a weapon. I wouldn't do that necessarily - I'd play up close combat more with bayonets and sabers first - but it might be one approach.
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Be warned - if you start Sharpe, sooner or later you'll stumble over Grand Manner's marvelous terrain, and that'll be your ruin!
For rules sets, why not give Legends of the Old West a try? This Very Ground might work, too!
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Black powder battles is designed to play Napoleonish skirmish, with few minis per side (5-10).
http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/bpb.htm
I didn't try this one, but I enjoy TWH system generally.
meow,
Matt
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As I'm still around, just a quick reply to you both. (First thanks for answering!)
PeteMurray,
since the skirmishers of that period were known for their somewhat unconventional style of reloading their guns, I really thought about changing the rules on that. But not only for the Rifles but also for Voltigeurs or even guerrilleros. Hmm, maybe a bit too far...
Poliorketes,
I've already stumbled. :wink: For the rules: I also thought about LotOW and TVG. The latter is a bit too 'realistic'. Don't get me wrong, it's a great ruleset and we're using it extensively for our FIW-games. But I want some heroic (and unrealistic) action. LotOW would be fine, but the tables are rather big, compared with the micro-style of Gloire. It's still on the list, so maybe...
PS: While writing I saw your post, too, Le matou rouge. I've seen these rules before and just now I've ordered their PDF. Never can have enough rules... :)
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PeteMurray,
since the skirmishers of that period were known for their somewhat unconventional style of reloading their guns, I really thought about changing the rules on that. But not only for the Rifles but also for Voltigeurs or even guerrilleros. Hmm, maybe a bit too far...
No no no! You've got the idea! Drill reloading is for nameless Jean Duponts and Tommy Atkinses on the line. Heroes can spit bullets down the barrel of a Baker, or have a trick for speed-ramming shots out of their carbines. Guerrillos are unconstrained by the combat drill.
You've got it! Go with your instincts! :D
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I have to admit as an unabashed fan of Gloire I think it would be cracking for Sharpe. Cavalry might have to be dealt with though...
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note that, usually the light infantry blokes were better trained than the rest of the line troops.
but in order to get more accurate shots, they didn't load their rifle (for those who had one) or musket in the normal way.
for this they didn't use the regular "cartuchos" (Portuguese name) which I think that are called cartridges.
they chose the amount of powder to use and loaded the lead ball evolved in tissue into the gun, this narrowed the gap between the inner surface of the barrel and the projectile, but because of this they had to hammer the shot down the barrel using the reloading rod. this took significantly more time to reload than the normal way
This type of shot was used when the light infantry had time to reload this way, and needed to shoot with better accuracy or range, else they reloaded as the line troops
Note that in the period, the statistics told that typically a kill would only be made per 200 shots.
If you want some detail I guess you can include this in your rules! :)
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Thanks again for the input!
meninobesta,
does that mean that rifleman and the like should be even slower at reloading if using, say, the special rules of their guns? Hm, that could be interesting: pumped up muskets, killers at distance, but bloody slow at reloading.
Aaron,
horses would be nice, but not for such a small scale me thinks. Maybe if LotOW is still an option.
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If the rifleman was using that special shot, then he should take more time than average to reload! (whatever the gun)
If the rifleman was using the normal shot he should take as much time as a well trained soldier!
now the gun itself:
there were two major infantry guns: the musket and the rifle, the last was only possessed by the Light Infantry (but don't forget that there were a lot of light infantrymen that didn't use riffles)
The rifle is more accurate then the musket, which also means better efficient range! this is due to the fact that the rifle had grooves cut inside the barrel.
the other not so apparent difference between these guns is that the musket is bigger, which made the musket a better melee weapon, but the rifle usually had bigger bayonets (usually similar to small swords) in order to transform them into similar melee weapons as the muskets!
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Afraid so... the baker rifle is a lot slower to reload than the Brown Bess. The Generals at the time were more interested in 4 rounds per minute firepower than something that could kill somebody at range...
Having run around numerous battlefields as a skirmisher the baker is out shot by Voltigers at closer range. once they closed the Baker would be loaded in standard fashion without the greased patch for the ball, meaning at closer range it became less accurate.
But as you are writing this in the swashbuckling area of the forum - I say what the hell and go for it a la swashbuckling mode. reloading on the run (an almost impossible task I hasten to add), firing with a baker in each hand... deadly (to the firer that is). Charging with the South Essex - actually watching Sharpe - you could probably get away with 20 figures a time...
I play Savage worlds, havent tried Gloire so cant comment, but some friends swear by it...
I like the firing in Savage worlds, and the fact the big baddies are wil;d cards basically have multiple wounds AKA Sharpe and HArper the rest are extras AKA the south Essex. A basic extra's job as in the films is to die...The Wild cards can take a whole load of punishment before passing out. There arent huge amounts of rules to wade through for firing and you get different edges to help your character... Musketeer allows you to reload speedily and Marksman allows you a +2 to hit roll.
We are playing Pirates at the minute and it is jolly good fun (well apart from the fact that Fanhard has somehow started a war) We are roleplaying it at the moment, but the rules work just as well for figure combat.
Hope this all makes sense....
I am a bit hooked on savage worldds at the moment but am going to spend my hard earned pocket money on the VAlley of the Thunder lizard - to help with my pulp game I will soon be running. :love:
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Richard Clarke and his merry band that make up TheTwoFatLardies are currently working on a Napoleonic skirmish system called Sharp Practice.
I like Richard's approach to rules which is always innovative, so this one should be very interesting.
Pat
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Athough it's a Fantasy version of the Napoeonic war the Flintloque rules might work well for small scale skirmish. They have lots of scenarios floating about, even some specific for a Sharpe type character.
http://www.alternative-armies.com/5020R_Flintloque_Reloaded.htm
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Durhams chosen men done a sharp based set of rules at Skirmish level using Perries 40mm figures. I have the rules here I could email you if interested. Unfortunately I cant find a link for them anymore but am happy to email them.
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Good morning evryone as far as skirmish rules here are my ideas .Fire and steel,for slightly larger games Brother against brother ,Yes I know its ACW but can be used for other periods and places.Example Mxamillian adventure.
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The Durham-Site seems to be down. Adress: http://www.durhamschosenmen.co.uk/
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What can I say, guys - this forum is really awesome! Thanks again for your replies!
By now I'm browsing through some of the mentioned rulesets. They seem to divide into two approaches: a 'realistic' one with average men and their average weapons, but a nice choice of troops (e.g. Sharpe's Skirmish) - and a more 'heroic' one, focussing on a heavy load of special rules (e.g. Black Powder Battles). Yet I don't know which to choose.
The realistic approach seems more applicable for one-off-games, which can be used getting started with a new period/new rules. Me and my friends are primarily interested in history, so maybe a chance to get us playing.
On the other hand: Yesterday I saw 'Sharpe's Gold', a quite scary episode, but I liked the somewhat 'pulpy' El Casco and his Aztec cult. This actually calls for some larger-than-life-rules telling a story, perhaps stretching over several games. But as we don't play regularly around here, I'm afraid that our nicely thought story could become messed up after one or two games.
Hm, what a decision... :cry:
So, another question to you: Which 28mm miniatures would you opt for? First to Rifles: I like the Foundry ones, although their 'assorted' pack is ridiculouly overpriced. Front Rank isn't my cup of tea. Companion miniatures seem reasonable, but I'm confused by their shop system and haven't seen the miniatures 'in the lead'. Anyone here with a close-up, perhaps?
(If those 40mm-Perry figs wouldn't call for 40mm-terrain as well, they were clearly my first choice!)
On to French/Spanish/Portuguese: Again, Foundry has a great range for the French, but the minis I've seen were on the smaller side of the 28mm-standard. They have also Portugueses, but I'm not sure about the sculpts, look a bit... gangling?
The Perries have some Voltigeurs in skirmish formation, but their uniforms are a bit too late me thinks. And greatcoats doesn't look right for a Spanish summer. :lol:
I haven't found figs to go as Spanish guerrilleros yet. Any suggestions?
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I have played a couple of test games of the Too Fat Lardies skirmish rules for the period they were great fun and looked pretty good there is awrite up here of a humorous play test game that took place on Lard Island recently
http://www.nowear.se/tincommander/www/viewReport.php?retreportid=47
The rules are planned to be released at Essex Eagle where their will be a demo/participation game.
I believe that there is also a new range of figures to be released soon under the name Alban Miniatures these will initially be skirmishing rifles (sculpted by Richard Ansell - have a look at the Assault Group Austrians for an idea of his sculpting style. Although I am not certain I think that the next release planned is skirmishing Voltiguers.
Just to mention I have no connection to Alban Miniatures but do play regularly at TFL HQ.
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Alban Miniatures' website:
http://www.albanminiatures.com/index.php
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Richard Clarke and his merry band that make up TheTwoFatLardies are currently working on a Napoleonic skirmish system called Sharp Practice.
I like Richard's approach to rules which is always innovative, so this one should be very interesting.
Pat
A Sharpe and Harper Figure plus some rifles are being sculpted too which look awesome to compliment the rules :mrgreen:
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I have played a couple of test games of the Too Fat Lardies skirmish rules for the period they were great fun and looked pretty good there is awrite up here of a humorous play test game that took place on Lard Island recently
http://www.nowear.se/tincommander/www/viewReport.php?retreportid=47
The rules are planned to be released at Essex Eagle where their will be a demo/participation game.
I believe that there is also a new range of figures to be released soon under the name Alban Miniatures these will initially be skirmishing rifles (sculpted by Richard Ansell - have a look at the Assault Group Austrians for an idea of his sculpting style. Although I am not certain I think that the next release planned is skirmishing Voltiguers.
Just to mention I have no connection to Alban Miniatures but do play regularly at TFL HQ.
Oops missed this post, yep saw the greens on Frothers and they look great
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Of course - I knew I had seen them somewhere!
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14041&start=0
For pictures of the first greens of the Rifles.
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Of course - I knew I had seen them somewhere!
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14041&start=0
For pictures of the first greens of the Rifles.
They are rather frothtastic :mrgreen:
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Found a Copy of the Sharpe Skirmish by the chosen men. Send me your eMail and I send you the PDF...
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Many thanks, NurgleHH, but Rabbitz has already sent them to me. I'm reading now.
the commissar, thanks for the link. These Rifles look very nice, hopefully they're going to be in medium 28mm. Anyone already seen Sharpe & Harper by the same sculptor?
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Many thanks, NurgleHH, but Rabbitz has already sent them to me. I'm reading now.
the commissar, thanks for the link. These Rifles look very nice, hopefully they're going to be in medium 28mm. Anyone already seen Sharpe & Harper by the same sculptor?
I have seen them somewhere but cant remember where... :twisted: :oops:
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The Sharpe & Harper figures are based on the books rather than the films.
There are probably pictures on the TFL yahoo group pictures - unfortunately being a computer illeterate I have never worked out how to insert pictures into a posting!
Generally I think that Tricky Dicky's Napoleonic 28mm are more slender than other manufacturers (particularly when compared against say Front Rank)
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I take it everyone's seen these: http://www.chilternminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/9483
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psyberwyche,
for my part I haven't seen them yet. They look quite nice, based on the books, aren't they. Any thought how they turn out in the lead (compared to Foundry or Companion)?
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If anything like the rest of Chiltern, they will be much bigger than other ranges.
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Painted Chiltern figures ... scroll down to the 1 June 2005 news item:
http://www.fusiliers.net/news.html
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Redoubt makes 28mm Sharpe and Harper figs, too.
http://www.redoubtenterprises.com/shop/?page=shop/browse&category_id=d8d7a2a174479834d9348cba65f29c3a&ps_session=dfd394088693da46603ced936fd26b38
Or...Napoleonics/Extras/Specials
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There was a good convention game at Enfilade on about a 6'x8' table using The Sword and the Flame rules and 28mm figures. I believe the units were 10 men instead of the usual 20. I didn't play in the game, but a friend of mine had a good time playing. Looked like about 50 to 60 men on each side in the scenario. I believer there was some gold involved, and multiple factions. The Spanish town looked great for that game.
As for loading times, that's where Bernard Cornwell's literary license comes in handy. The idea of having a mixed light infantry company with some muskets and some rifles allows the muskets to cover the slower loading rifles.
I'd say use Gloire for situations that are more like a duel, with 5 or fewer figures per side. Use TSATF or one of the other skirmish orieted rules for games with 20 to 100 figures per side. You can run a campaign that alternates between the different sized encounters.
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Why don't you make up your own rules.
that is what my club does.
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Why don't you make up your own rules.
that is what my club does.
Sorry for quoting my own posting, but please see my first posting:
I have to admit that I'm not very experienced and as such not keen on changing or inventing rules.
And as I'm totally on my own with this idea (no club, no regular games), I have to let some people do this piece of work for me. :wink:[/quote]
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Mad Doc;
I have published exactly what you need including a scenario booklet as well. Contact me at:
battlefield_designs@rogers.com
Title your e-mail as Lead Adventure's Napoleonic Rule Set
I can give you more information privately in an e-mail as to the game mechanics, etc.
Regards,
Hitman