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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Furt on March 14, 2013, 12:54:56 AM

Title: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 14, 2013, 12:54:56 AM
In a villa outside of Rome the peers of a wealthy patrician have gathered to witness a private gladiator pairing between Drusix, murmillo, and Lyphades, thraex. The gladiators have been chosen carefully and are considered well matched.

The patrician gives the signal and the two gladiators rush to meet each other. Lyphades is the quicker and he springs towards Drusix, but the murmillo is already launching his own attack. The thraex is checked mid step and begins to be pushed back. Drusix lashes out with his heavy scutum, but his opponent parries the strike with his own shield. Lyphades attempts to counter one of the murmillo's strikes but fails to land the blow.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-50XGMMItR9k/UUEMRiWmhqI/AAAAAAAABbM/SbnOPvGiJKA/s1600/01.jpg)
The pair close for battle - Drusix (left) and Lyphades (right).

Drusix takes advantage of the thraex's mistake and drives his gladius into Lyphades' outstretched arm, the blade cutting a deep furrow through the amour there. The thraex grunts in pain and blood flows freely down his arm and over the sica grasped in his hand. The gathered Romans let out a bloodthirsty cheer. Lyphades quickly threatens the murmillo with a quick attack that thankfully stops the murmillo's onslaught.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KnkQBdSv5QI/UUEMRrEQSHI/AAAAAAAABbQ/V3ZV8CeWegs/s1600/02.jpg)
Drusix drives his gladius into the thraex's sword arm.

But not for long. Drusix pushes forward again, driving Lyphades back. He can tell the serious wound will quickly take its toll on the thraex. Drusix ducks below his shield and lauches his whole body at Lyphades in an attempt to knock him down. The thraex attempts to move out of the way, but he is hit squarely by the murmillo, stumbles backwards but does not go down.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MHYUq4MT6nk/UUEMUnIEMSI/AAAAAAAABbY/BiUeTxafwWM/s1600/03.jpg)
Lyphades' bleeding wound is taking its toll.

Pushed dangerously close to the edge of the arena, Lyphades warily circles the murmillo in an attempt to avoid being hemmed in. He retreats from Drusix momentarily, the Romans hissing at his back and attempts to catch his breath. The murmillo spins to face the crowd, raises his arms triumphantly and roars a muffled battle-cry through his helm. He senses victory.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MUveI5UVzSs/UUEMW1W-0AI/AAAAAAAABbg/1LvCKBJB8UQ/s1600/04.jpg)
Lyphades turns the combat away from the wall.

Panting heavily Lyphades closes on the murmillo again, but his attacks fail to circumvent the large shield. The flurry leaves the thraex spent and Drusix stops giving ground, launching his own attacks. Each blow is a simple basic strike that drives the thraex back again, each blow becoming more dangerous than the last. The murmillo's last attack is well aimed and backed with considerable force. It lands just as Lyphades' foot touches the lip of the enclosed arena. Drusix's blade drives deeply through the shoulder of the thraex's shield arm, a bright spout of blood washes over the sand.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-25-l4peLvUQ/UUEMYidAlqI/AAAAAAAABbo/BfgbjC-yi7I/s1600/05.jpg)
Backed into a corner and wounded again, Lyphades crashes to the ground.

Lyphades stumbles and crashes to the ground heavily, near exhausted. With all his effort he attempts to quickly stand but the looming shape of his adversary prevents him from getting to his feet. Drusix rains a couple of blows down onto the fallen thraex, who miraculously fends them off, parrying with his shield and rolling out of the way.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xyx584fBQdE/UUEMcYrIyeI/AAAAAAAABb8/4nNksKUAOCE/s1600/06.jpg)
Lyphades bleeds heavily on the ground, his life ebbing from him.

Drusix knows the match is won, the Romans are calling for blood and he turns to them drops his shield and raises his bloodied gladius. Turning back to Lyphades he sees the thraex can not stand and so his opponent feebly raises two fingers in surrender, begging for missio. But it is too late for such thoughts. Drusix fought too well and avoided all of the thraex's attack. The crowd howls for blood and the patrician gives the word. Drusix raises the gladius again and drives it down through Lyphades' shoulder-blade. Victory is Drusix's!!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-77REQtx56oU/UUEMbjE_9rI/AAAAAAAABb0/6ThTBICUius/s1600/07.jpg)
An unpainted Charon ensures Lyphades is not foxing.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_JJETitQZzw/UUEMemjyp6I/AAAAAAAABcE/vPfnejed3G4/s1600/08.jpg)
Lyphades' wounds and bleed counters at the end of the match.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P7HvZVnqU3o/UUEMfihDowI/AAAAAAAABcM/Tzyg2SqWUFo/s1600/09.jpg)
Drusix is in fine form, a little puffed, but in a much better place than his opponent.

 
______________________________

Christian played the mighty Drusix and I was unfortunately the flawed Lyphades.The rules are my own set I have been working on for quite some time with the help of Christian and Dave. We had a great time playing this gladiator match and the game only took about 1.5 hours, pretty good for such an exciting battle.

The beautiful little arena is Christian's own creation and very nicely done!! It really brings the game to life.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Whiskyrat on March 14, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
Very nice AAR - thanks for sharing.

The beautiful little arena is Christian's own creation and very nicely done!! It really brings the game to life.

Agree - nice job Christian.

I particularly like the statue of the Lanista's father/grandfather.

The rules are my own set I have been working on for quite some time with the help of Christian and Dave.

So neither RSBS or MTS hit the mark for you?



Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: WuZhuiQiu on March 14, 2013, 02:30:06 AM
That is great-looking scenery. I hope that you might publish the rules one day.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Marine0846 on March 14, 2013, 02:47:12 AM
Love the report.
Great terrain,
thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: LeadAsbestos on March 14, 2013, 04:18:54 AM
Yep, I'd like to see more abt those rules too!
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2013, 05:10:20 AM
Great looking game - also interested in the rules set.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Mister Rab on March 14, 2013, 06:30:11 AM
That looks fabulous - the rules look intriguing as well. Please do share!
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: pocoloco on March 14, 2013, 06:36:15 AM
Very nice bout AAR  :-* Hopefully you can share more detail on the rules at some point.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 14, 2013, 07:05:36 AM
Joining the crowd howling for the rules.
Enjoyed the write-up quite a bit, thanks a lot. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 14, 2013, 07:33:11 AM
Love it  :-*

You chaps certainly put on a good show and it was a jolly good read 8)

The first two photos are particulary appealing with the overhead lighting and I'm afraid I'm going to badger about the rules as well  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Malamute on March 14, 2013, 09:19:36 AM
Love it  :-*

You chaps certainly put on a good show and it was a jolly good read 8)

The first two photos are particulary appealing with the overhead lighting and I'm afraid I'm going to badger about the rules as well  :D

cheers

James

Seconded, great stuff. :-*

 We want the rules! We want the rules! ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 14, 2013, 09:30:09 AM
We want the rules! We want the rules! ;D

Aren't we weak  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Malamute on March 14, 2013, 09:33:03 AM
Aren't we weak  lol

cheers

James

Yes we are!!! lol

I've got the figures already. I just need an excuse to paint the little buggers ;) lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lymphades
Post by: Treebeard on March 14, 2013, 10:33:55 AM
Fantastic AAR.

And yes the plebeians wants the rules.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Furt on March 14, 2013, 10:49:10 AM
Joining the crowd howling for the rules.

Feeling a bit like poor Lyphades at the moment facing down a howling crowd of bloodthirsty Romans!!  ;D

But since there appears to be some interest I'll explain whats going on a little further.

The rules are tentatively called "Blood on the Sands" and have been a labor of love for some time now.

In a bit of a collaboration I do hope to release BotS as a rule set, along with the necessary "tools" needed to play.

As far as gladiator rules are concerned I have tried them all MTS, RSBS, HHH etc, etc and none of them ticked all the boxes for what I really expected in a game of gladiatorial combat.

The main problem with gladiator games is they are a bit static and you essentially have two miniatures standing toe to toe in a circle and that's where they stay til one kills the other.

That's where I hope BotS is a little different.

I want to be able to retell the tale of my combat against "Asterix the Gaul" and how I triumphed over him.

The "character sheet" allows you to easily visualize what wounds your gladiator is suffering, if he is bleeding and how tired he is etc, plus no "bookkeeping" during a fight.

There are quite a few other cool things, I'm particularly fond of the fatigue and wound systems, but hopefully more will be revealed over a period of further play testing and tweaking.

The rules are a bit "crunchy", but I certainly think the subject warrants the detail - otherwise a two miniature game can get VERY boring VERY quickly.

Anyway I hope that's enough to keep everyone interested for now and I'll continue to post up some AARs as we get through them.

One last thing, the game uses custom dice.  ;)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/12/1650_14_03_13_11_44_45.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Suber on March 14, 2013, 11:15:48 AM
I take my hat off to you :o.
Lovely stuff :-*, all of it.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Malamute on March 14, 2013, 01:50:37 PM
Loving the look of it Frank. :-*

The dice idea is inspired. ;D

 I'll be up for buying a copy when you have them ready.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 14, 2013, 03:55:53 PM
I'm interested! Contact me if you need a graphic designer to do some work for you.

DrM
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: traveller on March 14, 2013, 05:28:36 PM
Wowser!

Great report! I love little scenes like this. Can you tell us how you made that great backdrop?
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on March 14, 2013, 06:18:00 PM
Wowser!

Great report! I love little scenes like this. Can you tell us how you made that great backdrop?

That!
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Furt on March 14, 2013, 08:45:35 PM
Thanks all for the kind words and support.

I'll be up for buying a copy when you have them ready.

I'll hold you to that Nick!!  lol

Great report! I love little scenes like this. Can you tell us how you made that great backdrop?

That I have to leave up to Christian - but it is a great little piece and perfect for a quick fight.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Christian on March 14, 2013, 09:59:37 PM
Ooh, glad you all like it! The game is a real blast, too. Frank's been working on this for years. The pit: It just so happens I took some WIP pics, which are linked below...

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/8/1940_06_08_11_6_13_53.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/8/1940_06_08_11_6_47_09.jpg)

The columns are from a Hirst Arts kit I procured long ago, one of the Egyptian ones, but it fit :) A hex was printed off an internet generator and drawn on to the bottom layer of foam.

The statue is a 54mm Roman figure from Eureka... not sure if they still sell them though.

As you can see it still isn't completely painted, so you will see it progress a little more in Frank's next update!
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2013, 10:25:34 PM
Looks pretty awesome - my buddy has been teasing me about building a Gladiator Ludus for some time now --- I was going to knock out some simple rules, but if I could save some time, I'd be definitely interested.

Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Marine0846 on March 15, 2013, 01:52:13 AM
Is that the roar of the crowd, yelling,
"play test, play test!!" lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Painting Princess on March 15, 2013, 03:39:02 AM
I tried an early version of the rules and it was pretty good then. Be exciting to try the updated one! :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Furt on March 15, 2013, 04:42:09 AM
I tried an early version of the rules and it was pretty good then. Be exciting to try the updated one! :)

By all means PP we'll have to have a game soon - there is always room for gladiatrices.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Painting Princess on March 15, 2013, 05:03:31 AM
By all means PP we'll have to have a game soon - there is always room for gladiatrices.  :)

Sounds good :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: pocoloco on March 15, 2013, 06:01:05 AM
You guys need to arrange those playtests quickly so that rest of us can get access to the game as well :D

Thanks for the wip shots of the ludus Christian, will be great to see it finished although it looked really good on those game pics already. How big are the individual hexes? And is that playing area just perfect for two gladiators? Would, for example, two pairs need lots of more space?
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Colonel Tubby on March 15, 2013, 08:09:15 PM
Great AAR, great scenery and great sounding rules - look forward to hearing more.
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Furt on March 15, 2013, 09:14:52 PM
How big are the individual hexes? And is that playing area just perfect for two gladiators? Would, for example, two pairs need lots of more space?

You can see in the pictures the hexes are a little bigger than the gladiator's bases.

The rules are not based on a certain hex size - what ever looks nice is good.

Base type (hex, round or square) is unimportant for that matter as well.

To be honest this particular arena is maybe a single hex too short - otherwise it would be the perfect size and all that is needed to play the rules.

BotS is not actually designed to fight more than 2 gladiators at the same time. It is the inherent problem of simulating a man on man duel in detail - it just can't be done effectively. In reality gladiators of any worth would most likely have fought one on one and condemned criminals, POWs etc may well have fought a "grand melee". Those types of combats are out of the scope of these rules.

You could run simultaneous individual combats though and if that was the case you would need double the space for sure.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: pocoloco on March 16, 2013, 11:08:18 AM
Thanks for info Furt... I will start a ludus soon, it seems ;) :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: LeadAsbestos on March 16, 2013, 12:00:41 PM
Yet another reason I should be working on my Playmobil arena... ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 16, 2013, 01:02:48 PM
This, linked with Dr The (crazy) Vikings 'Game in a box' idea, is what's happening after Salute  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Malamute on March 16, 2013, 02:24:16 PM
This, linked with Dr The (crazy) Vikings 'Game in a box' idea, is what's happening after Salute  :D

cheers

James

I'd better start painting my Gladiators then. :)

 Frank you had better get the rules finished and available for about two months time ;) :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 16, 2013, 02:36:22 PM
I'd better start painting my Gladiators then. :)

 Frank you had better get the rules finished and available for about two months time ;) :D

Yeah!!!

 lol

I know how it's going to fit in the box as well  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bout: Drusix vs Lyphades
Post by: Furt on March 16, 2013, 09:42:18 PM
We play tested another pair over the weekend and I hope to get the results up here soonish.

Frank you had better get the rules finished and available for about two months time ;) :D

Well that certainly would be a challenge.  ;D

This, linked with Dr The (crazy) Vikings 'Game in a box' idea, is what's happening after Salute  :D

An arena, as seen on LAF many times before, is a great piece to put in a box, regardless of shape. I have one still kicking around here somewhere still unfinished in a large wooden box.  :D

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/fsultana/DSCF3038.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Furt on March 17, 2013, 12:00:16 PM
Camonius the Gaul vs Floronius
After the body of Lyphades has been removed from the arena and Drusix takes his victory bow, the patrician announces another matched pair. "I give you, Camonius the Gaul, secutor, versus Floronius, retiarius." The gladiators enter into the arena from the dark archways and take their places opposite each other.  At the patrician's signal the combat begins.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r9takiOdLuU/UUWZqdDLVeI/AAAAAAAABcc/rwr39ndANeM/s1600/01.jpg)
Camonius the Gaul, secutor, (left) versus Floronius, retiarius (right)

Floronius is the first to act, skittering around the secutor at a wide berth, his net twirling. Camonius purposefully moves to meet him, striking out with his gladius, while the retiarius agilely keeps him at trident length. Floronius gives ground to the Gaul's attacks, checking him suddenly with a lash from his net. Camonius is forced to chase the retreating retiarius, but breaks off when he fends off an attack with the trident.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7cidBIu43qU/UUWZrlyqfLI/AAAAAAAABck/nC06oCxloow/s1600/02.jpg)
The retiarius makes a wide berth around the secutor.

Floronius springs forward suddenly his trident thrusting low. It careens off the secutor's scutum, catching him  in the unprotected thigh of his right leg. The three points of the trident bury themselves in Camonius' flesh and bright blood flows freely from the wound. The secutor's leg gives from under him, he stumbles and falls in a heap. The gathered crowd roars at the blood, urging the gladiator to stand. Struggling to rise, he fears another attack from Floronius' trident, but the retiarius skitters away, giving the secutor a chance to rise.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HMfWXHSlp08/UUWZt90hCnI/AAAAAAAABcs/p2k1b7kXdSc/s1600/03.jpg)
Wounded, but not out, Camonius the Gaul pursues his quarry

Breathing heavily Camonius gives chase again and lashes out clumsily with his blade, which Floronius easily evades. The retiarius gives more ground, forcing his opponent after him, who is panting with the effort. The Gaul pauses in his chase to catch his breath, but by the time he moves to close again Camonius' heart is pounding and his breath is ragged within the confining helmet.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gYfVNFWrSkk/UUWZx8B8zGI/AAAAAAAABc8/9YyP-U845Ns/s1600/04.jpg)
Floronius skirts the secutor again, his net poised to throw.

The retiarius moves around his foe, the net whirling above his head. Ducking below his shield Camonius presses forward, sees the shadow of the net spinning above him and attempts to move from it's path. Alas his wound has slowed him considerably and the retiarius' net falls over his scutum, entangling it.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Klk7H6jZnSc/UUWZxkHokBI/AAAAAAAABc4/XndvDMSVCJI/s1600/05.jpg)
The retiarius casts his net over the secutor's scutum.

The crowd roars as Floronius dashes towards his prey, but Camonius manages to fling the net off his shield before the retiarius can close. He stabs at his agile opponent, but fails to get inside the trident's reach. At least he prevents him from retrieving the net. Floronius is not concerned about the fallen net and quickly steps to his right in an attempt to flank his foe. The maneuver catches the secutor off guard and again the trident finds flesh.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tsWMJq15y6M/UUWZ0JVIaII/AAAAAAAABdE/QLvSiqKOa04/s1600/06.jpg)
Floronius steps quickly to the right, stabbing at the Gaul's shield.

The wound although not life threatening is enough to stagger the already weakened Camonius, who drops to the sand exhausted from blood loss and fatigue. He grasps Floronius' leg, exposes his throat and raises his two fingers in missio. The fickle Romans scorn his efforts and call for blood a second time. Floronius draws his pugio from his wide belt and ends the Gauls life. Floronius is victorious!!
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mPEZakEZSlc/UUWZ0zOM2SI/AAAAAAAABdM/uqJc75M_bgc/s1600/07.jpg)
Camonius falls to the sand begging for missio.
______________________________
More play testing of the rules, this time between a very well known pair, the retiarius and secutor. The secutor was played by me and Christian took Floronius, whose miniature we used has been affectionately known as "Ray Martin" (for any Aussies out there) for many years now. Christian must pay homage to the Dice Gods because boy can he roll a d6. We really need to get him to the casino. On the other hand I was in my usual form and failed to make the most simplest of rolls.
Regardless the battle gave us some more good insight into the rules and prompted me to revisit the damage and bleeding rules. It might be nice if I manage to win one of my own games anytime soon.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: pocoloco on March 17, 2013, 01:53:35 PM
Another great AAR, seemed to be an easy win for Floronius.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Malamute on March 17, 2013, 03:19:23 PM
Frank, you're distarcting me again ;)
Excellent stuff ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Marine0846 on March 17, 2013, 04:09:23 PM
Frank, you can't win, their your rules, just cheat. :o lol
Excellent write up.
Are your rules written for one vs one combat?
Or can you have a number of fights at the same time.
Such as a free for all.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Whiskyrat on March 17, 2013, 04:31:31 PM
Another nice AAR.

Floronius is victorious!!

Probably because Camonius the Gaul hadn't fought againt a Retiarius with a non-orthodox* style before.  ;)  lol





*The lead arm is the armoured one but this usually throws the Net.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Ray Earle on March 17, 2013, 08:27:51 PM
Great AAR. The rules seem to be shaping up nicely.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Furt on March 17, 2013, 08:37:53 PM
Thanks all.

Are your rules written for one vs one combat?
Or can you have a number of fights at the same time.
Such as a free for all.

They are actually written for classic duels and because of the way the combat works (determining who has advantage and pressing etc) it is proving difficult to incorporate melees.

Most gladiator fights were simply a matched pair of combatants - as that is what all the silly combinations of weapons and armor are there for. When you do a free for all most of the "balanced" combination of arms would go out the window and leave the gladiator very exposed.

Probably because Camonius the Gaul hadn't fought againt a Retiarius with a non-orthodox* style before.  ;)  lol
*The lead arm is the armoured one but this usually throws the Net.

You make a really interesting point Whiskyrat. In all my research of this stuff I have found conflicting evidence of which hand the retiarius actually held his net. I actually think he would hold his trident in the armored hand (left) and hold the net in the right hand. Miniatures from different ranges show the trident in different hands.  o_o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: LeadAsbestos on March 17, 2013, 09:58:29 PM
Trident in armoured hand would make sense, as he has to thrust w. it, exposing it to cuts, and the range of motion to throw a net would be impeded w the large shoulder guard.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Painting Princess on April 19, 2013, 12:12:50 PM
Hi all,

Just a note that the rules will be demo'd on Sunday at Leviathan in Quaker's Hill for all those locals ;)

See my post in the events forum for details:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=52904.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=52904.0)

You can find out more about the rules and see what they're like in a action! Visit the Intergalactic Games stall if you're interested :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: NickNascati on April 21, 2013, 12:41:53 AM
Please for the love of God, don't make me buy Gladiator figures a third time!  I've already had 54mm and sold them, and then 28mm and sold them.  I just can't find a set that works as anything more than a dull exercise in dice rolling.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 17/3)**
Post by: Furt on April 22, 2013, 10:52:46 AM
Yesterday I attended Leviathan, a small local wargaming convention, with Christian and Painting Princess.
We managed to have quite a few games of Blood on the Sands and a couple of people even sat in to try them out. A lot of blood was shed!! The rules are progressing nicely and playtesting continues to iron out any imbalances. Gladiator fighting is a tricky business.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8_QMpE8p2BA/UXUS2A3mFdI/AAAAAAAABd8/WClVrSMfvSQ/s1600/01.jpg)
A retiaruis and secutor - always a fun bout.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MH3YIvo9MEg/UXUS53j0lrI/AAAAAAAABeI/uympyQ2HgmA/s1600/05.jpg)
The secutor draws first blood to the flashy netman.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c9NUILySsYo/UXUS9TD6PJI/AAAAAAAABeg/EW1bfxJ8XS4/s1600/07.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7IL_GiO96Hg/UXUS_3ZeDWI/AAAAAAAABeo/CweLHGpIYWo/s1600/08.jpg)
Although he put up a good fight the retiarius is defeated, but is granted missio.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YYPANY9Pi28/UXUTA81ACRI/AAAAAAAABe0/0jAW-YyoNxw/s1600/09.jpg)
The mighty Livia, a descendant of Xena no doubt, over her fallen foe Dacum.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 22/4)**
Post by: Mister Rab on April 22, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Looks fab! I, for one, am really looking forward to giving these a go  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 22/4)**
Post by: Malamute on April 23, 2013, 07:08:35 AM
marvellous :-*
Just finished watching Spartacus War of the Damned, so in the mood for some Gladiator contests. ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 22/4)**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on April 24, 2013, 06:11:18 AM
I follow this thread with great interest. This seems to shape up very nicely. :-*
So just a quick "thanks for sharing" and especially for those reports. Keep 'em coming, please.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on May 26, 2013, 12:07:49 PM
I've managed quite a fair bit of play testing on my "Blood on the Sands" gladiator rules in the last fortnight. Of course I continue to tweak things like crazy and I wonder will I ever be satisfied it's perfect. I keep forgetting to take photos though so I can't post more AARs, but these games are more research than enjoyment at the moment. I am happy to report I have had a couple of victories though (Yeah!!). One was with "Barcias the Babykiller" a Damnatio ad gladium gladiator, destined to be put to death the first time he fails to win and the other was with an unnamed retiarius whose opponent  eventually submitted through exhaustion.  You have to take the wins where you can get 'em.

I've had some positive feedback from a friend, who is an experienced gamer, but first time player of BotS. He enjoyed himself and is even keen to get some gladiators painted up. A good sign. My biggest hurdle I face now is getting the rules clearly down in print. I can teach the rules concisely and easily enough - the concepts are not hard, but writing them is proving difficult.

Although I soon hope to get some help from a professional graphic designer I have been toying with some layouts for parts of the rule book. What follows is a taste of some of the gladiator types and part of the QRS detailing some basic actions etc just to keep the appetites whetted. Images appearing on the gladiator cards are the property of Crusader Miniatures and have been used here with their permission.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QTx82Bp9xQo/UaH3MwRgfOI/AAAAAAAABg4/XHmM4kHj2M4/s1600/Type_Murmillo.jpg)
The Murmillo

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cyzqxE1-QCo/UaH3MR5lF6I/AAAAAAAABgw/oWgaCQ56ROE/s1600/Type_Hoplomachus.jpg)
The Hoplomachus

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AAaW5DNqxjQ/UaH3NTOlRxI/AAAAAAAABg8/cjY7tlyQo_w/s1600/QRS.jpg)
Part of the QRS
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on May 26, 2013, 04:57:42 PM
Seconded what Doc said, very interesting, above all because I still didn't decide what Gladiator rules to play. Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: LeadAsbestos on May 26, 2013, 05:21:41 PM
I'm still willing to playtest too! I've got tons of gladiators, sitting on their a$$es around the ludus, eating all my barley... ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Mister Rab on May 26, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
Looks great! Another willing playtester here  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on May 27, 2013, 02:55:50 AM
I will certainly need some play-testers in the near future.  :)

On another note - do you think the need for custom dice might put some people off?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Deathjester on May 27, 2013, 05:30:05 AM
Not really. It is easy enough for people to purchase some blank dice online, if you could supply a pdf sheet of images to print off, so people could stick them to the faces of the die.

For custom dice, look at the popularity of SAGA or even the Gladiator rules of Ludus Gladiatorius.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 27, 2013, 07:35:45 AM
Put Nick and myself down for playtesting. I've even got a figure painted  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on May 27, 2013, 10:54:50 AM
Put Nick and myself down for playtesting. I've even got a figure painted  lol

I thought myself a bit of a gladiator aficionado - but must admit that I've never seen that Old Glory minis before. Nicely done.

Of course all potential playtesters will be determined by single combat fought to the death!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 27, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
Of course all potential playtesters will be determined by single combat fought to the death!  lol

 lol

Can we do that in a month when my back is better  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Malamute on May 27, 2013, 11:53:03 AM
I thought myself a bit of a gladiator aficionado - but must admit that I've never seen that Old Glory minis before. Nicely done.

Of course all potential playtesters will be determined by single combat fought to the death!  lol

Looking forward to it, I will be triumphant over Bibbles the Giant in the arena. :D

The 40mm figures is Battle Honours,no idea why he said OG. He confused bless him, it must be all the painkillers he is popping at present. :'(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on May 27, 2013, 12:11:41 PM
Looking forward to it, I will be triumphant over Bibbles the Giant in the arena. :D

It is settled then...

Wobbly Bibbles Maximus vs Malamutius Calvus - may the best man win.  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 27, 2013, 12:21:59 PM
Maximus Bibbilous please  :D

I though you said they were OG  ???

Never mind eh  o_o

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Doomsdave on June 01, 2013, 12:55:28 AM
Sorry if answered already, but who does the Livia figure?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Mister Rab on July 01, 2013, 08:47:11 PM
Well, I've been beavering away cutting out counters ready for tomorrow - I've decided it would be an acceptable use of lesson time to get my A-level Classics students to give Blood on the Sands a go as a playtest for Furt. There have to be some perks to being a teacher, eh?  lol lol

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dUPW_0XC9Y0/Uc_U5cVdeQI/AAAAAAAAA8o/7RPzN12EHoQ/s750/01+-+prepping+counters.jpg)

If that doesn't work out I should be able to get a solo playtest in at some point over the next few days.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Malamute on July 01, 2013, 09:24:25 PM
Painting my gladiators in the next couple of days, then on holiday for a week where I intend to read the rules thoroughly whilst casually sipping my martini at the beach. :)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 02, 2013, 12:00:45 AM
Painting my gladiators in the next couple of days, then on holiday for a week where I intend to read the rules thoroughly whilst casually sipping my martini at the beach. :)



In Devon  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: LeadAsbestos on July 02, 2013, 12:14:52 AM
I hope to get in a game over the holiday, and I've even recruited a semi-willing opponent!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: NickNascati on July 02, 2013, 12:38:32 AM
The rules have not yet been released yet, correct?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on July 02, 2013, 03:51:03 AM
Well, I've been beavering away cutting out counters ready for tomorrow - I've decided it would be an acceptable use of lesson time to get my A-level Classics students to give Blood on the Sands a go as a playtest for Furt. There have to be some perks to being a teacher, eh?  lol lol

Looking forward to hearing how the rules fare amongst a bloodthirsty crowd of students!!

In Devon  ???


 lol - at least he's going on a holiday.

The rules have not yet been released yet, correct?

No not as of yet. The combat rules are being playtested at the moment, with the campaign rules to follow.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Malamute on July 02, 2013, 10:32:49 AM
In Devon  ???

cheers

James

You haven't seen the weather forecast for next week. A tropical heatwave is due for the south West of England :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 02, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
You haven't seen the weather forecast for next week. A tropical heatwave is due for the south West of England :D

I can guarantee that it won't be as hot as it has been here  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Mister Rab on July 02, 2013, 05:52:18 PM
I've had a quick playtest of these rules now, although a quick re-read since I got home suggests I didn't quite get bleeding/fatigue right or remember favour/disfavour each time. It was an absolute blast - recommended highly - and I can't wait to play more.

LAF review (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=55653.msg660112#msg660112)
blog post (http://geeklydigest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/aleae-iactae-fuerunt.html)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Furt on July 02, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
Awesome Mister Rabs - a good read.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **(Updated 26/5)**
Post by: Mister Rab on July 02, 2013, 08:45:39 PM
Glad you liked the write-up, we certainly enjoyed playing  :D

(Of course, having got myself down to a single painting project, I'm now searching for more gladiator miniatures to supplement the prepainted ones I have  ::))
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands - Combat and Counter Placement Example
Post by: Furt on July 05, 2013, 11:45:39 PM
For the benefit of the playtesters (and anyone else interested) I will endeavor to post here an example of combat for Blood on the Sands. Firstly I’ll introduce our two combatants and show in detail the relevant placement of counters on their play sheets.

The match will be fought between a murmillo, Marcus, and a thraex, Titus.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/13/1650_06_07_13_1_50_07.jpg)

Marcus is more experienced (Prowess of 4) than his opponent and both stronger and sturdier (Strength and Stamina of 4). His attributes are marked with appropriately coloured counters. An armatura sheet representing the armour of a murmillo is placed in the box provided. This sheet lists the difficulty to wound particular areas of Marcus’ body and will also be the place where any wounds will be recorded. The heavy scutum a murmillo wields increases the difficulty of his Speed tests to 5+ and a counter is placed here to remind the players.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aBP1zAhdudE/UdbD0TW5jvI/AAAAAAAABlI/a_nAUJbryuk/s1600/Marcus+the+Murmillo+Attributes+and+Armatura.jpg)

Along with the scutum, Marcus wields a gladius in his main hand. Weapon counters are placed in the appropriate hand boxes. Although a solid defence, his scutum will cause him to tire after time. A fatiguing shield counter and two hourglass counters are placed in his fatigue box to represent this. An hourglass counter will be removed each turn, after which he will start to feel the load of his shield weighing on him. Let’s hope he has dispatched his opponent by then. Fresh from a recent victory Marcus has accumulated a fame counter, which is placed in his crowd favour box. The crowd begin on Marcus’ side and he may use their cheers to spur him on. Lastly, Marcus considers himself spurned by the goddess Fortuna, and considering he is a gladiator, he may just have a point. He has the “Unlucky” trait and a counter is placed to remind both players of this. His opponent may force Marcus to reroll any dice roll once during the match.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k7Ol8xCTt2E/UdbD7WfWQ-I/AAAAAAAABlQ/-dHzVksdV8Y/s1600/Marcus+the+Murmillo+Fatigue+Favour+and+Weapons+Mockup.jpg)



(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/13/1650_06_07_13_1_50_46.jpg)

Titus is making his debut in the arena and as gladiators go he is of fairly average ability and skill.  He does have the “Nimble” trait although and exhibits a natural quickness (Speed 4). A trait counter is placed by his Speed score to remind the player that Titus will always have at least 1 success during a Speed test. A thraex armatura sheet is placed in the appropriate box. The armament of a thraex differs from a murmillo in a few ways. Titus’ shield is smaller and lighter than his opponent’s and both of his legs are armoured to compensate. Any wounds Titus suffers will be placed on this sheet.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mnnDRB8Qx-U/UddSSCq9Y6I/AAAAAAAABls/mpC09V3lQYY/s1600/Titus+the+Thraex+Attributes+and+Armatura.jpg)

Titus is armed with a sica and a square parma (shield).  The curved sica sword is a weapon unique to a thraex and is designed to reach around an opponent’s shield. Should one of Titus’ attacks be reduced to exactly 0 successes, his curved sica will still allow his blow to strike, when it usually would be defended. Weapon counters are placed in the hand boxes. His shield is less effective than a scutum, but weighs much less and will not fatigue him. He does not place any of the fatigue counters that Marcus has. Titus has no further fatigue, favour or trait counters to place. He gulps nervously and steps forward into the bright sunlight…

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qbrRUkMSbLc/UddSpturcyI/AAAAAAAABlw/mIn0stpeYno/s1600/Titus+the+Thraex+Fatigue+Favour+and+Weapons+Mockup.jpg)

A turn by turn example of combat to follow soon(ish).
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 06, 2013, 06:12:42 AM
A turn by turn example of combat to follow soon(ish).

Looking forward to it  :)

Nick is currently sunning himself but hopefully, along with his knotted hanky and rolled up trousers, he's reading the rules ready for our first game when he gets back  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 06, 2013, 08:41:49 AM
Nick is currently sunning himself but hopefully, along with his knotted hanky and rolled up trousers, he's reading the rules ready for our first game when he gets back  :D

Kinda like this?

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3242/5786110334_a624ee433f_z.jpg)

If anyone has managed to miss his own thread here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=34269.msg661613#msg661613/) Mad Doc Morris has posted his own AAR of Blood on the Sands and it's a corker. A very talented man!!  :-*  :-*  :-*

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 06, 2013, 10:01:14 AM
Kinda like this?

Yup, but swap the Times for the Daily Star and you have it  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 06, 2013, 10:49:43 AM


Nick is currently sunning himself but hopefully, along with his knotted hanky and rolled up trousers, he's reading the rules ready for our first game when he gets back  :D

cheers

James

Contrary to popular belief, I am currently smothered in bronze tanning milk and wearing my favourite budjie smugglers. :D
Fortunately there is broadband in the cottage do in between bouts of sun worshipping I can keep an eye on my favourite forum. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 06, 2013, 10:50:49 AM
Yup, but swap the Times for the Daily Star and you have it  lol

cheers

James

Nah, the much missed News of the screws. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 06, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
Contrary to popular belief, I am currently smothered in bronze tanning milk and wearing my favourite budjie smugglers. :D

 o_o

Fortunately there is broadband in the cottage do in between bouts of sun worshipping I can keep an eye on my favourite forum. ;)

I would never had posted that picture if I knew you would see it any time soon!!  :o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 06, 2013, 11:36:29 AM
Contrary to popular belief, I am currently smothered in bronze tanning milk and wearing my favourite budjie smugglers. :D

 :-X :-X :-X

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Poiter50 on July 06, 2013, 02:24:49 PM
No, you are mistaking yourself for our Wannabe Prime Minister!  lol

Contrary to popular belief, I am currently smothered in bronze tanning milk and wearing my favourite budjie smugglers. :D
Fortunately there is broadband in the cottage do in between bouts of sun worshipping I can keep an eye on my favourite forum. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on July 06, 2013, 03:24:15 PM
Please, guys, stay constructive, on topic – and away from politics. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: NickNascati on July 10, 2013, 01:54:48 AM
How are the rules for solo play, and how do them compare in complexity and chart use to Red Sand, Blue Sky?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 10, 2013, 02:02:35 AM
How are the rules for solo play, and how do them compare in complexity and chart use to Red Sand, Blue Sky?

No specific rules have been implemented for solo play as we speak. Blood on the Sands requires some tactical decisions to be made and calling these decisions from a table may make for some odd results. At the moment you would have to run both gladiators by making the most logical or tactically sound choices for each of them. I could imagine managing each gladiator like this could get a little out of hand, but I have done it many times during solo playtesting. A more solid method of solo play is something I would like to implement though.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW 6/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 10, 2013, 02:07:53 AM
Please note that this is a VERY detailed explanation of how a combat turn works in Blood on the Sands, mainly for the benefit of the playtesters, and in reality these processes take very little time at all, contrary to my LONG winded account. It is much easier to play out these steps than to detail them here. I hope this gives a little insight into how the gameplay feels and doesn't give anyone the wrong impression.

See here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=51608.msg661547#msg661547) for the two gladiator's stats.

TURN I

Marcus and Titus are placed in the arena, separated by 5 hex spaces. Each of the players take a number of Arena Dice equal to double their gladiator’s Prowess scores and roll them. Marcus will be rolling 8 Arena Dice and Titus will be rolling 6. These rolls will determine the number and type of actions that will be available to each gladiator this turn.

Marcus rolls his 8 dice and scores: 1 Laurel, 2 Swords & Laurel, 2 Swords and 3 Foot. Fresh from his victory over Halitosis of Syria, the murmillo is in excellent form.

Titus rolls his 6 dice and scores: 1 Swords & Laurel, 2 Swords and 3 Foot. The unblooded thraex is off to a nice start as well.

Neither gladiator rolls any Skulls.

The players allocate their rolled Arena Dice into the appropriate boxes on their play sheets to help organise the dice during play.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YOBJbnKzzQU/UdwAP5WbuQI/AAAAAAAABmY/ulsfeMuE6Sw/s1600/Marcus+Arena+Dice+Mockup.jpg)
Marcus' Arena Dice

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AP41MRltC50/UdwAP5t51JI/AAAAAAAABmU/qHaTy8-cQTc/s1600/Titus+Arena+Dice+Mockup.jpg)
Titus' Arena Dica

Before the gladiators can act, advantage must be determined. Advantage is basically the initiative and determines which gladiator gets to act at a given time. Blood on the Sands is not exactly an "I-Go-You-Go" system. Advantage does not always pass to the next gladiator after the other one has performed an action, as will be shown later.

For now the gladiators must determine which of them holds the advantage initially and to do this they must both make their first test. A test is performed by simply rolling a number of d6s equal to the appropriate attribute score and counting how many results of 4 or higher are scored. These are called successes.

To determine advantage, the gladiators are required to each make a Speed test. They both take a number of d6s equal to their Speed scores and roll them.

Marcus rolls 3d6, scoring results of 1, 4 and 5. Normally this would equate to 2 successes, but because he is burdened by his heavy scutum, Marcus only scores successes on Speed tests with rolls of 5 or higher. This results in him scoring only a single success.

Titus rolls 4d6, scoring results of 3, 3, 4 and 5. Unlike his opponent, Titus is not burdened by a heavy shield and so his roll results in him scoring 2 successes.

The number of Foot symbols in their dice pools are added to these successes. Both gladiators add 3 to their successes, resulting in Titus with 5 successes and Marcus with 4. Titus wins and holds the advantage.

Titus must now take an action, as all eyes are upon him. Not wishing to rush into combat too eagerly, he chooses the Step action. He spends a Foot die (although he may have chosen any symbol for this particular action) and discards it from his play sheet. He moves his Speed (4) in hexes, stepping cautiously towards his opponent. His action is now complete and because the action was not an attack, the advantage automatically passes to his opponent.

Marcus now holds the advantage and is eager to fight, but he is not engaged (in an adjacent hex) with his opponent yet. He does not wish to waste the advantage by moving only, so chooses the Step Attack action. This will allow him to both move up to his Speed and attack his opponent. It will come at the cost of a fatigue counter though, as both moving and attacking in the same action is taxing. He spends a Foot and a Sword die and places a fatigue counter in his fatigue box on his playsheet. He must be wary of becoming fatigued too early.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CE-AHfe13QE/UdwA_wCoEJI/AAAAAAAABmg/qDYoINB0oJg/s1600/Marcus+Fatigue+Mockup+01.jpg)
Marcus adds a fatigue counter.

Marcus moves forward 1 hex and even though he could move up to 2 hexes more, is now engaged with Titus and must end his move immediately. He did not intend on moving any further anyway and as he is now engaged, may attack the thraex. The Step Attack action allows him to perform only a Basic Attack, the simplest form of striking at an opponent.

Marcus declares he is striking at Titus with his gladius and determines his attack dice pool. He adds together his Skill, weapon bonus and any Impetus bonuses to determine how many d6s he will be rolling in the attack. A weapon bonus is only gained if a gladiator is fighting with a longer weapon than his opponent. Both Marcus’ gladius and Titus’ sica are considered of equal length, so Marcus gains no weapon bonus. Likewise, at the moment he does not possess an Impetus bonus, a reward for holding the advantage continuously in an attack. Thus, Marcus’ attack dice pool consists purely of his Skill (3) score and so he will be rolling 3d6.

Titus must now declare a defence. Defending does not normally cost an Arena Die and a gladiator may always defend himself regardless of what Arena Dice he has left. Should a gladiator choose to perform one of the Defence actions although, he must spend the appropriate Arena Die to do so. Titus declares a standard defence and determines his defence dice pool.  He will add his Skill (3) and either a weapon bonus or shield bonus, but never both. As detailed earlier, neither Titus nor Marcus has a weapon bonus, so the thraex must rely on his shield for defence (which is probably what it is designed for). His square parma has a shield bonus (SB) of 2 as listed on the weapon counter. Titus will be rolling 5d6 in defence.

Either gladiator now has the opportunity to spend a Laurel or a Skull. Spending a Laurel will increase their own dice pool by 1d6, while spending an opponent’s Skull will reduce the opponent’s dice pool by 1d6. Only Marcus has a Laurel, and at this stage in the bout declines to spend it.

Both gladiators roll their dice and compare the results. This is called an opposed test and requires the gladiator performing the action to roll more successes than his opponent. Marcus rolls a 1, 2 and 6; while Titus rolls a 2, 3, 3, 4 and 4. Titus rolls 1 more success than Marcus does, catching the blow easily on his shield.

Even though Titus has successfully parried the murmillo’s strike, the thraex is still forced into the hex space directly behind him. Marcus, as the attacker has the option to follow his opponent and occupy the hex that Titus has just vacated or remain where he is. This is called pushback and, Marcus, who intends to press his attack, decides to follow the thraex up.

As Marcus has just performed an attack action, he may now choose to press his attack, regardless of whether his blow struck. Pressing allows a gladiator who has just performed an attack action to retain the advantage and perform another attack action. Apart from the obvious benefit of making consecutive attacks, the pressing gladiator also gains Impetus – a bonus 1d6 that he adds to his next and any successive attacks.

Marcus initiates a press, which comes at a cost, and must spend either a Foot or a Swords & Laurel. If he spends a Foot to press, he must then choose an attack action and pay for it as normal. Should he spend a Swords & Laurel instead, he gains a Basic Attack action without spending any further Arena Dice.

Marcus elects to press with a Foot, discarding the die, and he places a d6 somewhere on his play sheet to remind him of his Impetus bonus. He declares his next attack action to be an Advanced Attack, spends a Swords & Laurel and chooses the Offhand Strike action. This action entails him to strike with his offhand weapon, the scutum, with the intentions of setting up a more powerful follow-up attack next action. He declares the Offhand Strike with his shield and determines his attack dice pool. The scutum has the same weapon length modifier as his gladius, so he adds no dice for weapon bonus, but he now possesses an Impetus bonus of 1d6. Adding this to his Skill (3), he will now attack with 4d6.

Titus decides to push his luck and performs a standard defence with his shield again. He determines his defence dice, which remain unchanged at 5d6. Before they roll the dice, Marcus declares that he will spend a Laurel to increase his attack dice by 1d6, taking his pool to 5d6, an even amount of dice as his opponent’s.

The gladiators both roll their dice and tally the results. Marcus rolls a 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6; while Titus rolls a 2, 2, 3, 3 and 5. Marcus’ attack succeeds by 1 success and he must now determine where the blow has struck his opponent.

Rolling 2d6 on the Hit Location table he scores a 6, resulting in a blow to Titus’ left leg. A quick look on the thraex’s armatura sheet shows that his left leg is armoured and will require rolls of 5 or more to damage him there. Marcus now determines if he has wounded his opponent, by adding his Strength (4) and the number of successes (1) he achieved in the attack and rolling the 5d6. He scores a 1, 1, 4, 6 and 6, resulting in 2 successes. The thraex has been wounded and Titus must place 2 wound counters onto the left leg area of his armatura sheet. He is capable of taking only 1 more wound to his left leg before suffering any detrimental effects. The crowd roars as Marcus adds a favour counter to his crowd favour box for wounding his opponent.

Titus must immediately determine if the wound is bleeding heavily enough to hamper him. He makes a Stamina (3) test against the amount of wounds (2) taken, and rolling his 3d6 scores a 3, 3 and 5. He only manages 1 success, when he needed 2, so unfortunately for the thraex, the wound is bleeding, but not as badly as it could be. Titus adds a single bleeding counter to his fatigue box, along with a favour counter to his crowd favour box. The crowd likes to see their gladiators bleed.

Lastly Titus must roll a number of dice equal to the number of wounds (2) he has just sustained. This is called a stumble roll and determines if something adverse happens as a result of the wound. He rolls 2d6 and neither of the dice comes up a 1, so he is safe.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R4MEMPBZxSo/UdwBpjQN3KI/AAAAAAAABmw/NfQWG7EEP6I/s1600/Titus+wound+bleeding+favour+Mockup.jpg)
Titus' bleeding wound to his left leg.

Again, Titus suffers pushback from the attack, and is moved 1 hex backwards. Marcus, who has no intentions of easing his attack now, elects to follow him up. The murmillo declares his intention to press again and this time spends his last Swords & Laurel doing so. He does not have to spend a further die for an attack action, as spending the Swords & Laurel includes a Basic Attack. He adds a second Impetus 1d6 near to his first one. He now has an Impetus bonus of 2d6 to any consecutive attack. His Offhand Strike action he has just performed also has the benefit of adding 1d6 to his next attack only, so he places another 1d6 next to his Impetus dice to remind him.

Marcus declares his Basic Attack with his gladius and determines his attack dice. He adds his Skill (3) along with his Impetus (2) and Offhand Strike (1) bonuses together for a total of 6d6. The murmillo is confident he will strike his enemy again.

Titus looks a little nervous (and green). He knows that Marcus is capable of pressing again after this attack, as he still retains a Foot and Swords. Titus decides to use a Defence action and spends his only Swords & Laurel die to perform a Counter. If he succeeds in defence, Titus will deny the murmillo the opportunity to press and will gain the advantage and a chance to finally attack. It is a gamble although, which could see him loose an Action Die for no gain. Titus declares the Counter defence with his shield and determines his defence dice. They are the same as before and remain at 5d6.

The gladiators roll their dice and calculate their successes. Marcus rolls a 2, 3, 4, 5, 5 and 6; a great roll. Titus rolls a 2, 3, 3, 4 and 5. Unfortunately for the thraex, Marcus’ attack succeeds again, this time, with 2 successes. Marcus reaches for his dice to determine where he has struck his opponent, but Titus has another idea. He forces Marcus to use his Unlucky trait. Marcus discards the trait counter and must reroll his attack dice. This time the murmillo rolls a 1, 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6. He really is unlucky.

With this new roll Titus’ successes reduce Marcus’ successes to 0. The attack misses and Titus fulfils the Counter action by immediately gaining the advantage (he does not suffer pushback) and taking his own Basic Attack. Marcus must discard his 2d6 Impetus bonus, as they are only in effect while he holds the advantage consecutively.

Titus declares his attack with his sica and calculates his attack dice for the first time. He can add only his Skill (3) as he has no weapon or Impetus bonus, for a total of 3d6.

Marcus, steady behind his scutum, declares a standard defence with his shield and calculates his defence dice. He adds his Skill (3) and the shield bonus (SB 3) of his scutum, for a total of 6d6.

Both gladiators roll their dice and calculate their successes. Titus rolls a 4, 4 and 5; while Marcus rolls a 2, 2, 2, 4, 5 and 5. Marcus’ 3 successes reduce Titus’ own 3 to 0 successes, which would normally result in a miss, but Titus is a thraex and wields a sica sword. The sica uniquely allows a thraex to succeed in an attack that has been reduced to 0 successes. Titus’ curved sword nips around Marcus’ shield and catches the murmillo in the right leg (Titus rolls his 2d6 and scores a 10 on the Hit Location table). Marcus’ armatura sheet shows that his right leg is unarmoured, requiring only a 4+ to wound – a lucky shot indeed.

Titus must now determine if he has wounded Marcus, by adding his Strength (3) with the number of successes achieved in the attack. He of course scored 0 successes, so Titus is rolling just the 3d6. He rolls remarkably well and scores a 4, 6 and 6. A solid blow, the thraex is in fine form.

Marcus places 3 wound counters on the right leg area of his sheet and as the crowd erupts, Titus places a favour counter in his crowd favour box for wounding the murmillo.

Marcus must now determine if he is bleeding and takes a Stamina (4) test versus the amount of wounds (3) sustained. He rolls his 4d6 and scores a 1, 3, 3 and 5, managing only a single success and resulting in him adding 2 bleeding counters to his fatigue box. He does gain a favour counter for receiving the bleeding wound, but it is a small conciliation. Marcus finally makes a stumble roll with 3d6 and is lucky to avoid rolling any “1”s.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GagUGQlUnII/UdwEXk9x2gI/AAAAAAAABnI/-EY80_rlIqo/s1600/Marcus+wound+bleeding+favour+Mockup.jpg)
Marcus' bleeding wound to his right leg.

 After the murmillo suffers pushback, Titus elects to follow and occupies the hex just vacated. The thraex initiates a press, spending a Foot to do so along with a Swords for a Basic Attack. He places a 1d6 to remind him that he has an Impetus bonus. Titus declares the attack with his sica and calculates his attack dice – Skill (3) plus Impetus (1), resulting in 4d6.

Although powerful in defence, Marcus has been bitten already and decides to play on the side of caution by declaring a Defensive action. He spends his last Foot choosing the Evade action, which allows him to add 1d6 to his defence dice and to also choose the exact rearward hex he suffers pushback into. He calculates his defence dice by adding his Skill (3), shield bonus (3) and his Evade action (1) for a total of 7d6.

Both gladiators roll their dice and calculate their successes. Titus rolls a 2, 3, 5 and 5; while Marcus rolls a 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 6 and 6. Marcus succeeds in fending off a second blow from the thraex and his wicked sword, but just. It looks like the Evade action paid off.

Marcus moves back 1 hex from pushback (he could have chosen any of the rear 3 hexes to move into) and, Titus, who is capable of pressing one last time, follows him up. The thraex declares a press again, spending both his last Foot and last Swords to do so - he is out of Arena Dice now. He places a second Impetus die on his sheet and declares his Basic Attack action with his sica. Calculating his final attack dice as Skill (3) plus Impetus (2), giving him 5d6 total.

Marcus can do little but hunker down beneath his shield. He declares a standard defence with his scutum and determines his defence dice to be back to 6d6 again, Skill (3) plus shield bonus (SB 3).

Both gladiator roll their dice and calculate successes. Titus rolls a 1, 1, 4, 6 and 6; while Marcus rolls a 1, 3, 3, 4, 5 and 5. Another 0 success strike! Again the thraex’s sica finds a gap in Marcus’ defences.

Titus rolls 2d6 to determine hit location and rolling an 8, he strikes the murmillo’s left arm, which is covered by his large shield. Titus requires “6”s to wound Marcus there and rolling his Strength (3) he fails to roll a single wound. The scutum saves the murmillo’s arm from being cut by the sica. Marcus does not suffer a wound.

Titus forces his opponent back 1 hex again, but this time, knowing he is out of Arena Dice, elects to remain where he is. There is now a 1 hex space between the thraex and his opponent. Unable to press, Titus discards his Impetus dice.

Marcus gains the advantage, but he is left with a Swords only. Unable to perform an attack action as he is not engaged, he checks the list of actions and determines his only option is a Step or No action. Not wanting to close straight back into combat without knowing who will hold the advantage next turn, he declares a No action, spends his last Action Die and remains stationary in the hex. The thraex’s onslaught has left him a little taken aback. The crowd is not impressed with this lull in the entertainment and urges Marcus back into the fight. The murmillo gains a disfavour counter, reducing his favour back down to 2 (including his initial fame counter), for failing to close with his opponent during his action.

Neither gladiator has any Arena Dice left, but before the turn repeats itself, there is a bleeding and fatigue phase. During this phase both gladiators gain a fatigue counter. Marcus must remove one of his hourglass counters from his fatigue box, indicating that his shield is starting to get a little heavy. Lastly both gladiators must make a Stamina test against any bleeding counters they have. Titus has one bleeding counter so rolls his Stamina (3) and scores a 1, 3 and 3. The thraex fails to score a single success and so gains another fatigue counter. Marcus has 2 bleeding counters, so needs 2 successes in his Stamina (4) test. He rolls a 1, 3, 3 and 4, scoring only 1 success, so he also receives a fatigue counter. Neither gladiator has accumulated enough fatigue to become weary, so the turn ends.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hCg0Rbq1qk0/UdzFAlRPy_I/AAAAAAAABnw/sKl6sWKGodM/s1600/Marcus+end+turn+Mockup.jpg)
Marcus at the end of Turn I

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MHhmfPwOSj8/UdzECcCYAqI/AAAAAAAABng/u_hcR-UltFs/s1600/Titus+end+turn+Mockup.jpg)
Titus at the end of Turn I
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on July 10, 2013, 09:19:01 AM
Nice run through.  :D

The rules seem to flow nicely with just the right amount of detail. Look forward to seeing more.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on July 10, 2013, 09:47:11 AM
I'll have to have a proper read through your post but looks good at first glance

Oh and thanks for the painting ideas  :D

EDIT: Read through your post. I like it!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Elbows on July 11, 2013, 12:35:23 AM
Awesome, looking forward to it.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 22, 2013, 10:40:36 PM
The walk through of the turns has made a big difference to my understanding of some of the rules following our first matches tonight.bthanks for doing them. :)

Things didn't fair to well for Astinax the Myrmillo. In his first match he was pitched against a faster and stronger Thraex called El Leon from Hispania. It was all over in one turn with Astinax soon on the floor with a massive leg wound. It was followed up by a killer blow which saw his head neatly severed with one well timed swing from El Leon's Sica... ::)

The trials and tribulations of being a Lanista... lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Elbows on July 23, 2013, 12:53:49 AM
I pray you did not spend too much coin on the slave.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 23, 2013, 07:11:59 AM
I pray you did not spend too much coin on the slave.

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2013, 10:00:22 AM
The walk through of the turns has made a big difference to my understanding of some of the rules following our first matches tonight.bthanks for doing them. :)

Things didn't fair to well for Astinax the Myrmillo. In his first match he was pitched against a faster and stronger Thraex called El Leon from Hispania. It was all over in one turn with Astinax soon on the floor with a massive leg wound. It was followed up by a killer blow which saw his head neatly severed with one well timed swing from El Leon's Sica... ::)

The trials and tribulations of being a Lanista... lol

Nick, did you play without reading the example or play after reading it?

Poor Astinax!  :(

But he does win a prize for being the first gladiator to ever be decapitated in Blood on the Sands!!  lol

In all our playtesting I have never successfully done significant damage with a Killing Blow, let alone decapitate someone. That's fantastic!!  :o

"It is no easy task to sever a man's head. You must find the right angle."
―Crixus to Naevia


I believe H.M.Stanley's secutor was killed by a retiarius with a Killing Blow, just a little less brutal. Bloodthirsty lot you playtesters.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 23, 2013, 10:04:38 AM
Nick, did you play without reading the example or play after reading it?

Poor Astinax!  :(

But he does win a prize for being the first gladiator to ever be decapitated in Blood on the Sands!!  lol

In all our playtesting I have never successfully done significant damage with a Killing Blow, let alone decapitate someone. That's fantastic!!  :o

"It is no easy task to sever a man's head. You must find the right angle."
―Crixus to Naevia


I believe H.M.Stanley's secutor was killed by a retiarius with a Killing Blow, just a little less brutal. Bloodthirsty lot you playtesters.

Read the example after playing, it made more sense that way :)

I am hoping we got the killing blow correct with the numbers of dice etc. More next week when we will take photos. Last night was more about head scratching and looking puzzled whilst still trying to look like you knew what you were doing in front of your opponent.

At least Astinax will be remembered for something :D lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on July 23, 2013, 10:41:40 AM
I believe H.M.Stanley's secutor was killed by a retiarius with a Killing Blow, just a little less brutal. Bloodthirsty lot you playtesters.

Not quite. My Secutor was (rapidly) Spent after Bleeding out to multiple attacks/wound while Prone after expending all his Arena Dice

At least mine lived to tell the tale and is thirsting for revenge ...  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2013, 11:16:24 AM
I am hoping we got the killing blow correct with the numbers of dice etc. More next week when we will take photos.
I can do an example of the killing blow if necessary. It is fairly straightforward though.

At least Astinax will be remembered for something :D lol

For sure, he will be immortalized somewhere. Funny, a gladiator named Astinax appears in an Osprey image. I have always liked that name and have stared at that image often.


Not quite. My Secutor was (rapidly) Spent after Bleeding out to multiple attacks/wound while Prone after expending all his Arena Dice

At least mine lived to tell the tale and is thirsting for revenge ...  ;)


There is always revenge...  >:(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on July 23, 2013, 11:26:31 AM


 Funny, a gladiator named Astinax appears in an Osprey image. I have always liked that name and have stared at that image often.
 



Now you know what happened to him lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 23, 2013, 11:44:20 AM
I unfortunately had to miss out on last night but we will be playing next week  >:D >:D >:D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2013, 11:57:17 AM
I unfortunately had to miss out on last night but we will be playing next week  >:D >:D >:D

Looks like you saved some denarii mate.  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 23, 2013, 12:02:41 PM
Looks like you saved some denarii mate.  ;)

 lol

It'll be arena next week so if I loose, walls come down  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 03, 2013, 11:13:02 AM
lol

It'll be arena next week so if I loose, walls come down  lol

cheers

James

Mustafa Rest, the peoples favourite all the way from Egyptus. ;) lol

Get the photos up Matey. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Furt on August 03, 2013, 09:04:38 PM
Mustafa Rest, the peoples favourite all the way from Egyptus. ;) lol

 lol - Well he did come a long way!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 06, 2013, 02:03:02 AM
08/05/2013 (05/08/2013 for you weird Europeans...)

Played two games of BOTS tonight with a long time buddy of mine.  Sadly only my phone was handy for pictures, so I'll try to get a camera on standby tomorrow if we get some games in.

Initially I had tried to play this game with my brother (a non-gamer).  He had kinda glazed over and we abandoned it.  Reading the rules you get a little lost, and it's a game in which you need to nut up, put some minis on the table and stumble through a game, before you "get it".  It's not one which is easy to read and comprehend fully.  In the middle of the first game (Caius, Myrmillo v. Biggus Buttus, Thraex) there were many "Oh, okay...I get it now" moments.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-05_19-11-32_15_zps918b4aae.jpg)
Battle is joined.

We were playtesting this for Mr. Furt and have compiled a number of questions/clarifications which will be presented to him upon completion of gaming tomorrow.  We ran two games tonight, and the second went 10x smoother, proving that seasoned players will get the hang of it pretty quickly.

First game:

Rolling characters, Biggus Buttus (Thraex from Gallia) rolled Skill 4, Coward, Skilled, and ...something I've forgotten (yep, three 6's on his first trait roll!).  Caius, Myrmillo from Aegyptus rolled Skill 4 also, and no traits.

Biggus Buttus took control of the game quite quickly, delivering two massive wounds to the Myrmillo's sword arm, forcing him to drop the sword, and suffer immense bleeding.  By the start of turn three, Caius (Myrmillo) was bleeding so profusely from his nearly severed arm that he succumbed to fatigue and surrendered...the crowd mercilessly calling for blood.  Biggus Buttus finished him in the proper way.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-05_19-38-09_823_zpsa8ea1335.jpg)
(we used various tokens we had handy on the Gladiator boards, which I had laminated so we could use markers as well...my buddy is only in town for a short while and I didn't get all of the tokens cut out, so we didn't waste time!)

Second game:
We decided to pit the Hoplomachus Secundus Chancus against Biggus Buttus (now Fame 1 from having won a fight).  While there aren't proper rules for the Hoplomachus in the playtest rules, we had the armatura and scratched together some simple adjustments from the retiarius' trident (become the Hoplomachus spear) etc.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-05_20-18-28_364_zps83fdf42f.jpg)

Secundus Chancus rolled Skill 4 also, and Unlucky.  This fight was far more interesting, with the Hoplomachus having quite an advantage with his spear over the Thraex.  He threw the spear once, missing Biggus Buttus, as blows were traded (each suffering numerous wounds, little bleeding).  Secundus suffered a bloody forehead, and Biggus Buttus was bleeding from numerous slashes to his arms and legs.  At the end of turn two, Secundus managed to run around and pick up his spear (while suffering an outcry of anger from the crowds).  He spun on heel and hurled the speed, striking Buttus in the chest.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-05_20-45-20_409_zps0ab76779.jpg)
^Blood token marks the landing location of the spear should Secundus miss...

Buttus suffered...the spear landing straight in the middle of his chest, somehow missing his vital organs.  

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-05_20-46-39_625_zps44194ec0.jpg)
^Four damage dice...four wounds!

My Hoplomachus fared much better than the Myrmillo

In a frantic scramble in close combat both gladiators traded blows (each a scant cut away from being crippled or bleeding out...) and Biggus Buttus succumbed to his wounds.  Due to her performance (5+ crowd favor) he was allowed to leave the arena with his life.  This game was more interesting/exciting than the first, and flowed much better because we were become more acquainted with the rules.

It's quite good, the game.  I think with some official or unofficial modifications to allow more than one player it could be quite the insane/frantic multiplayer game as well.  Overall very fun, and I think we'll try to get in another couple games tomorrow.  Still have a secutor and retiarius I've had to keep at opposite ends of the painting table to minimize the curses and gnashing of teeth.  

Good stuff!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Combat Example 10/7/13**
Post by: Furt on August 06, 2013, 05:02:05 AM
Cool - sounds like you got the rules the second time round - which isn't bad really for a new set.

In my defence, you only have a set of play test rules, which I admit are not as clear as they could be.

The concepts in BotS are simple enough - just proving difficult to translate that onto paper.  :(

Also, it appears you may not be doing "Bleeding" correctly, as the wounds to the Murmillo arm could only have possibly resulted in 5 bleeding markers. I think he has about 13 there. A wonder he had any blood left in him at all!  lol

The rules for Hoplomachus are certainly done, I just omitted them from the playtest version, but you are right in thinking they mimic the retiarius' trident. I don't believe the Hoplomachus would throw his main weapon, but it sure sounds like the tactic worked!!  :o

Thanks for posting this.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 06, 2013, 06:16:44 AM
Excellent report, Elbows, thanks for sharing. 8)
I share your thoughts on the rules. You need a couple of games (or bounds at least) to get the hang of it, but after that it's fairly easy to follow. Unfortunately, I'm rather forgetful, so starting from scratch after a few days without a game. lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 06, 2013, 07:10:28 AM
Yeah, the picture is confusing...we were using the fatigue box for both bleeding and fatigue (and I had my "things on the left are bleeding...the rest are fatigue" going on...).  The next game we moved the bleeding tokens to the actual armatura to make it easier to keep tabs on.

So he actually only bled a bit, but I failed a ton of tests against the bleeding and his fatigue became overwhelming after two turns.  Curious, while it's one of the sheet of questions we wrote up - how do you carry out a basic attack with say, a shield?  My guy was pushed all around the arena without being able to get back to his gladius, so we were a bit unsure of how to have him simply swing his shield as an attack (we did an attack and subtracted -1 from the strength+success formula for a normal weapon...)

PS: Regarding the Hoplomachus, it's a decision I made.  From reading up on the books I've purchased it seems there are two types of thoughts on the Hoplomachus: 1) he threw a light spear or javelin and then ran into combat with a small sword - possibly a gladius.  2) He used the spear as his weapon and had a very small sword or dagger as a backup weapon.

I went for option 1 for my game.  I think it's just a conscious decision on each designer in how you want to play him.  I also read reference that if a Hoplomachus were to fight a Thraex he may not use a spear at all, and revert to a sword and shield (essentially...becoming a Thraex?).  We just wanted to test the spear use.  It's a quite strong weapon if you play it the way I did, essentially being a very powerful weapon and suitable for throwing.

It was a pain to gather it though, so I agree it was a rather calculated risk, one which barely payed off.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 06, 2013, 09:33:45 AM
Curious, while it's one of the sheet of questions we wrote up - how do you carry out a basic attack with say, a shield?  My guy was pushed all around the arena without being able to get back to his gladius, so we were a bit unsure of how to have him simply swing his shield as an attack (we did an attack and subtracted -1 from the strength+success formula for a normal weapon...)

A shield has a weapon length, just like a gladius or spear. It is used simply by declaring an attack with it, just like any other weapon. At the moment there is no penalty to attack or damage with a shield, but I am considering implementing that a wound delivered by shields will not "bleed".
In much of the documentation and video of reenactments, shields are used quite offensively, so I refrained from penalizing them in attack. It seems likely that gladiators were schooled to use their shields in attack as well as defence.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 06, 2013, 04:04:17 PM
Yeah, we just went off the cuff with it.  I think the full damage, no bleeding is a decent compromise, and I agree they seem to be used quite offensively.  We're grabbing some lunch then we'll give it another go here shortly.  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 07, 2013, 08:00:53 AM
Must share this for any who missed it here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56467.msg675656#msg675656

Two brave BotS playtesters - Malamute and jimbibbly playing in their local - now that's dedication. Stuff the toy gladiators - these two are the real deal!

Well done gents! That really put a smile on my face.  :)

(http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/gladiators.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 07, 2013, 08:09:07 AM
Bump:

I regret to inform you guys that...I did not take pictures.  Just imagine my House of Oscarus figures zipping around a hex mat on a dinner table... lol

So my buddy and I played two more games today prior to having a big dinner with family and friends.  The first game was my Secutor vs. the Retiarius (a rather stout opponent despite initial assumptions).  The game went well, with a lot of back and forth until the Retiarius stabbed my Secutor in the thigh, causing massive bleeding and knocking me prone - striking me in the head but failing to finish him off.  The heavy bleeding once again made the Secutor fatigue out.  We're obviously learning that the heavy gladiators need to spend dice to perform a "Respite" action in order to recover from fatigue.  If the lighter gladiator harasses them constantly they're unable to do so, and perish as a result.

Retiarius victor.

The second game we tried something new.  We played a two vs. two game, rolling up two gladiators a piece and then selecting classes.  My buddy played a Retiarius and a Provocator, and I went with a Secutor and Thraex.  Now the game is aimed at single combat between two opposing models.  I think Furt would do very fine to keep it that way.  However, we found that with a simple adjustment to the way initiative is handled the game actually played very well.  We massaged a few rules and made a couple simple house rules.  The end result was a very fun game which had an entirely different feel while retaining the core of BOTS very well.   All of a sudden movement and placing became ten times more important (being caught between two opponents was bad...).  Also it occasionally gave a gladiator a chance to recuperate while his buddy engaged in fierce combat.  We played right up to the time he had to leave to pick up his wife.  I had just fatigued his Provocator into quitting.

Despite having four gladiators on the table, we both rolled amazing defenses and amazing resistance to bleeding!  The game ended with the Retiarius outnumbered by my gladiators, and everyone on the board had suffered minor cuts and bruises.  It was just as enjoyable as the proper game...so anyone who's on the fence about picking this up in the future, it's a couple simple house rules from being able to handle a few more gladiators.  You still won't want to try huge battles or anything.  I happen to play a lot of four-way games with buddies, so this vastly increased my enthusiasm for Furt's project.

Overall, four (well...three and 3/4...) games, all excellent.  The rules really became second nature, and a few errata style questions have been forward to Furt with some compliments and comments.  Really an excellent design which portrays the feel very well, and allows the player to be just strategic enough that his luck doesn't rely on simple stats.  It's good stuff.  Look forward to testing it some more. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on August 07, 2013, 10:25:31 AM
Must share this for any who missed it here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56467.msg675656#msg675656

Two brave BotS playtesters - Malamute and jimbibbly playing in their local - now that's dedication. Stuff the toy gladiators - these two are the real deal!

Well done gents! That really put a smile on my face.  :)

(http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/gladiators.jpg)

Dedication to the cause. Gentlemen, i salute you!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 07, 2013, 11:49:20 AM
Bump:

I regret to inform you guys that...I did not take pictures.  Just imagine my House of Oscarus figures zipping around a hex mat on a dinner table... lol

So my buddy and I played two more games today prior to having a big dinner with family and friends.  The first game was my Secutor vs. the Retiarius (a rather stout opponent despite initial assumptions).  The game went well, with a lot of back and forth until the Retiarius stabbed my Secutor in the thigh, causing massive bleeding and knocking me prone - striking me in the head but failing to finish him off.  The heavy bleeding once again made the Secutor fatigue out.  We're obviously learning that the heavy gladiators need to spend dice to perform a "Respite" action in order to recover from fatigue.  If the lighter gladiator harasses them constantly they're unable to do so, and perish as a result.

Retiarius victor.

The second game we tried something new.  We played a two vs. two game, rolling up two gladiators a piece and then selecting classes.  My buddy played a Retiarius and a Provocator, and I went with a Secutor and Thraex.  Now the game is aimed at single combat between two opposing models.  I think Furt would do very fine to keep it that way.  However, we found that with a simple adjustment to the way initiative is handled the game actually played very well.  We massaged a few rules and made a couple simple house rules.  The end result was a very fun game which had an entirely different feel while retaining the core of BOTS very well.   All of a sudden movement and placing became ten times more important (being caught between two opponents was bad...).  Also it occasionally gave a gladiator a chance to recuperate while his buddy engaged in fierce combat.  We played right up to the time he had to leave to pick up his wife.  I had just fatigued his Provocator into quitting.

Despite having four gladiators on the table, we both rolled amazing defenses and amazing resistance to bleeding!  The game ended with the Retiarius outnumbered by my gladiators, and everyone on the board had suffered minor cuts and bruises.  It was just as enjoyable as the proper game...so anyone who's on the fence about picking this up in the future, it's a couple simple house rules from being able to handle a few more gladiators.  You still won't want to try huge battles or anything.  I happen to play a lot of four-way games with buddies, so this vastly increased my enthusiasm for Furt's project.

Overall, four (well...three and 3/4...) games, all excellent.  The rules really became second nature, and a few errata style questions have been forward to Furt with some compliments and comments.  Really an excellent design which portrays the feel very well, and allows the player to be just strategic enough that his luck doesn't rely on simple stats.  It's good stuff.  Look forward to testing it some more. 

Regardless of pictures Elbows it sounds like you have really gotten the hang of the rules.

I'm impressed with your tweaking of the rules to incorporate multiple gladiators and will certainly be talking with you on the subject in detail. I had a plan for such things myself but ditched them fairly early in the peace without much testing. They would serve nicely for the odd "special event" or for a bit of a muck around at a convention or amongst friends.

Well done mate.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 6/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 08, 2013, 08:47:14 AM
I'd like to share the new look playsheet for Blood on the Sands designed by our very own Dr Mathias. The good Dr has been toiling away behind the scenes for me, giving up his precious time, dedicated to making BotS look better. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the new look sheet, as this is the direction Dr Mathias plans to take the whole project. Dr Mathias - thanks again mate.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PCNLIUrmOOE/UgS_LpXZbAI/AAAAAAAABok/1cHSOvmqfY0/s1600/PlaysheetV10c_watermark.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2013, 09:11:40 AM
I love it...infinitely better than the current one (not that the current one is bad...the new one is just...awesome).  lol

I'd still like to see the disabled threshold indicate what attribute the disabled parts will affect (though it looks like space is a premium).  Also, where do you suggest we put Fame for use during the game, just add it to the crowd favour box?  Very slick, love the new sheet.

I would love to see a matching armatura set... :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Dr DeAth on August 08, 2013, 09:44:25 AM

I'd still like to see the disabled threshold indicate what attribute the disabled parts will affect (though it looks like space is a premium). 


How about something like this . . .

(http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/crippled.jpg)



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on August 08, 2013, 12:38:41 PM
Like it lots
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Golgotha on August 08, 2013, 03:16:23 PM
Looks fantastic loved the reports on your website too. Would love to get my hands on this set of rules, when and how might it be available?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on August 08, 2013, 04:00:38 PM
Oh how cruel to torture us with the play sheet but to not provide a download to the rules!  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2013, 06:18:53 PM
How about something like this . . .

(http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/crippled.jpg)





Yep that's precisely what I was thinking.  Just something that lets you know what attribute is penalized when disabled. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Mister Rab on August 08, 2013, 07:03:25 PM
This looks grand!  :-* I'm happy with this aesthetic direction  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Justin Buck on August 08, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
The new sheet does look sweet!  I've been following this thread for a while now and thanks to all the gladiators popping up I'm taking the plunge....again.  Any idea when the rules would be ready for sale?  They look like they would be fun and bloody, the way gladiator fights should be  :)

Justin
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 08, 2013, 08:34:51 PM
Thanks for the comments and interest.  :)

@ Elbows and Dr De'Ath: Your thoughts and suggestions have been passed onto the good Dr. I'm sure we will be able to accommodate the info on the sheet.

@Elbows: Fame is basically a crowd favour marker so yes with crowd favour.

The rules are still being written and thoroughly playtested. I am reluctant to release anything that is not 100%. I am working hard to finish them but real life keeps getting in the way. I intend to make them available for purchase as soon as I am able. I hope in the end it will be worth the wait.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 08, 2013, 09:33:40 PM


The rules are still being written and thoroughly playtested. I am reluctant to release anything that is not 100%. I am working hard to finish them but real life keeps getting in the way. I intend to make them available for purchase as soon as I am able. I hope in the end it will be worth the wait.

They will certainly be worth the wait. So far they are effing brilliant ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2013, 10:04:25 PM
Agreed...having minimal experience with:

Arena Games
Sine Missione
Warhammer Historical Gladiator
Invictus
Red sand, blue sky

...none of them really accomplish what Furt has done.  The only reason to game something else would be if you want huge battles or elephants stomping around.  I will say that Red Sand, Blue Sky and Invictus both have some decent development charts/tables, ideas for ludus creation etc.  So all of the games above have merit, even just for information and some campaign ideas.

I hope to have more playtests done in the near future!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 08, 2013, 10:18:52 PM
Thanks gents - your "blood" is worth bottling - denarii in the mail.  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
Wait, about the house slave from Aegyptus you promised me... :-[
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 08, 2013, 11:18:28 PM
Wait, about the house slave from Aegyptus you promised me... :-[

Oh - forgot about her or was it him...  ;)

In regards to the armatura sheets, Dr Mathias will be undertaking these next. They will prove to be the biggest challenge by far. I think the look of them will make or break the whole playsheet and counters thing. Nervously awaiting...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2013, 11:54:36 PM
I was even wondering about doing the armature figures in a kind of tiled look?  (similar to the logo box on your new sheets). Either way, it's making good progress...looking forward to it all!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 09, 2013, 05:27:50 AM
The sheet has now been updated by Dr Mathias to reflect the suggestions made.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=51608.msg676092#msg676092

Any other thoughts or concerns about the playsheet?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 09, 2013, 05:41:12 AM
Just noticed I still need to put the text 'Arena Dice' under the Arena Dice boxes  o_o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 09, 2013, 05:47:51 AM
Just noticed I still need to put the text 'Arena Dice' under the Arena Dice boxes  o_o

 lol Just when you think you might be done...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 12, 2013, 07:00:55 AM
WARNING: Despite constant attempts...Photobucket refuses to rotate the photos...so...tough!

Rise of Negrix

I swung by my brother's house tonight to attempt a game or two of BOTS.  My brother and I had abandoned trying the game sometime a few weeks ago.  He's not a gamer, and reading the rules he had started to glaze...since then I'd learned the proper rules.  We tried it again.

Rolling up characters my brother rolled a Skill 5 (!) Hoplomachus, named Negrix.  My first Myrmillo Vipus...met an end nearly instantly.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-11_21-29-26_8651_zpsd90684e7.jpg)

Yep...that's four skulls and an actual decapitation.  Before the end of turn two, Negrix swiped the head off of Vipus with his spear.  Immediately victory.  Oddly enough Negrix has the Loath ability, meaning he hates being a Gladiator and is generally a dick...a very skilled dick.

The next game was a four-player game...Negrix (Hoplomachus), and Turo (Thraex) vs. Cyax and Volumo - both of my Myrmillos.  The fight went well, with me rolling at least Cyax as a Skill 4 gladiator.  The game started with Negrix charging and running Volumo all the way up against a wall with an unending barrage of blows and strikes.  Cyax moved to assist while Turo closed in on the melee.  Volumo struck back valiantly but Negrix eventually dispatched him with a series of brutal strikes to his legs...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-11_22-25-08_3551_zps15cde8f3.jpg)

Cyax was surrounded by Turo and Negrix.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2013-08-11_22-35-51_331_zps304fedeb.jpg)

Taking advantage of several skulls and luck, Cyax dispatched Turo the Thraex with a similar leg attack, chopping one of his legs till it was hanging by a few tendons.  Negrix assaulted Cyax, knocking him into the wall, then knocking him off his feet with a flurry of blows.  Cyax struck back as best he could from the ground, swinging wildly, hiding under his large scutum shield.  Eventually Cyax stood and began to swing wildly at Negrix, turning the tables - forcing him back across the arena.

A series of lightning quick cuts began to stream blood all over Cyax.  Negrix deftly struck leg and arm, torso and head.  Eventually as the heat of the day wore on Cyax began to suffocate in his helmet, the weight of his shield increased, and he collapsed.  Negrix stood towering above him...but the crowd cried mercy.  Negrix left the arena, having fought in two games, slaying two opponents and defeating a third.

Turo and Cyax both left the arena alive...while Volumo was dragged out on hooks.

Verdict: My brother, the non-gamer, had a great time.  The final fight between Cyax and Negrix was borderline legendary.  Negrix, much more skilled than his opponents was truly the class of the field, proving the lethality of the Hoplomachus (personally my favorite type...lol).  The two-vs.-two game lasted perhaps 1.5 hours and went at least 5-6 turns which is pushing it.  One turn even resulted in both gladiators standing put and taking a breather, both of us choosing to recover as best we could as the fatigue set in.

Still great stuff.  We came up with some more questions for Furt too...questions my brother asked, so it was good to get non-gamer opinion and views of the stuff.  Terms, and mechanics that we gamers really take for granted, my brother was able to highlight for me.  Good stuff. This was at my brother's house, so I only had my cell phone for pictures, and some others didn't turn out!  :'(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Playsheet 8/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 12, 2013, 09:01:17 PM
Rolling up characters my brother rolled a Skill 5 (!) Hoplomachus, named Negrix.  My first Myrmillo Vipus...met an end nearly instantly.

Yep...that's four skulls and an actual decapitation.  Before the end of turn two, Negrix swiped the head off of Vipus with his spear.  Immediately victory.  Oddly enough Negrix has the Loath ability, meaning he hates being a Gladiator and is generally a dick...a very skilled dick.


Negrix is a dick lol  lol  lol I'm assuming your poor murmillo Vipus was just an average joe, and one that had some bad luck rolling dice as well! The campaign rules should prevent a killer like Negrix being paired with a Vipus most times.

It sounds like the multi-gladiator rules worked again and you had a lot of fun with that battle.

Verdict: My brother, the non-gamer, had a great time.  The final fight between Cyax and Negrix was borderline legendary.  Negrix, much more skilled than his opponents was truly the class of the field, proving the lethality of the Hoplomachus (personally my favorite type...lol).  The two-vs.-two game lasted perhaps 1.5 hours and went at least 5-6 turns which is pushing it.  One turn even resulted in both gladiators standing put and taking a breather, both of us choosing to recover as best we could as the fatigue set in.


Great to hear your brother enjoyed the game and beat you in his first game. It is good to see the response of non-gamers, and obviously with your guidance he grasped the rules. Thanks again Elbows.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 12, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
Yeah, we know they shouldn't have really paired...but I didn't mind.  Adds more amusement to the game.  Same kind of thing I do in my Old West game...the teams often end up very lopsided, but that's what makes it's a fun challenge.  I agree that the rank rules will keep it from happening when players are doing some proper games etc.

I also kept track of the gladiators who survived, so I'll be trying to see how they develop over the course of more games.  We even debated pitting Negrix against two Tiro gladiators...and may still try that. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 12, 2013, 09:37:56 PM

I also kept track of the gladiators who survived, so I'll be trying to see how they develop over the course of more games.  We even debated pitting Negrix against two Tiro gladiators...and may still try that. 

There is a campaign "special event" that will pit two less experienced gladiators against a veteran - in the Suppositicius, but one after the other. I really have to try these multi-gladiator rules soon.
I do think Negrix is destined for greatness though, with a few kills under his belt and the crowd on his side. Be warned. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 12, 2013, 11:44:09 PM
I'll shoot you a PM of the simple rules I use. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 13, 2013, 09:13:42 AM
There is a campaign "special event" that will pit two less experienced gladiators against a veteran - in the Suppositicius, but one after the other. I really have to try these multi-gladiator rules soon.
I do think Negrix is destined for greatness though, with a few kills under his belt and the crowd on his side. Be warned. ;)

Hoi Furt,

Are you playtesting your ruleset now?

Looks very interesting!

Best regards,

TBC
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 13, 2013, 10:07:58 AM
Are you playtesting your ruleset now?

Yes Too Bo Coo, the BotS combat rules are being furiously play tested as we speak.

Many lead gladiators have been killed, maimed, impaled and decapitated - all in the name of playtesting!!  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 12/8/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 13, 2013, 01:42:21 PM
Bloody hell you guys!  All this great stuff leaving me behind!  Heck no!!!  Now I have a nice gladiator retinue and an arena for them to fight.... :P
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 21, 2013, 05:53:33 AM
I'd like to share the latest master piece from Dr. Mathias for Blood on the Sands. This time I present to you the basis for the "Armatura Sheet" that will make up each of the nine gladiator styles, showing their armour placement and weaponry. My hat off to Dr. Mathias again, who is dedicating a lot of time and effort to this project. Personally I think it is brilliant, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lqalszUOf60/UhRTigO97PI/AAAAAAAABqg/xFv6DejBztY/s400/Basic+Armatura+Master.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: The Somnambulist on August 21, 2013, 06:34:52 AM
That is fantastic!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Suber on August 21, 2013, 06:40:36 AM
Beautiful! :-* There is a lot of effort on that, I love it!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 21, 2013, 07:06:53 AM
He's a fine specimen. :D

Oh, sorry you were referring to the sheet ;)

It looks great ;D

Which are the final three Galdiators types who make up the nine?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 21, 2013, 07:14:18 AM
Awesome!  When I saw the new playsheet, I was secretly hoping the armatura sheets would be done in a tiled fashion...sooo happy to see it!  Really delivers the Rome feel.  :-*

I actually thought about trying to sneak BOTS in to my job (work at a military academy)...maybe rope a cadet into a game or something.  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 21, 2013, 07:32:58 AM
As long as I don't have to print that myself to be a cool kid – looks great. :D
The historically inspired designs are a nice touch. But hopefully the player sheets won't get too busy with all that colours, marble and mosaics going on. Yeah, poor old eyes, easily confused. o_o

Final note: Depends on which paper size you're aiming for, but I found player sheets stretched out in width rather than height to be quite handy. That's because most players want to place their sheets in front of them, so between table edge and the actual gaming area (e.g. the arena). Hence, if space is tight on the sheet, perhaps shift the boxes around a bit? Maybe to indicate the order of action from left to right, with the dice boxes to the left for example? Just a silly idea, never mind.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on August 21, 2013, 03:25:44 PM
This looks awesome. I personally like the historical bling and don't think that color and effect will impede the legibility of the sheet if done well. Perhaps you could have a full bling version and a stripped down version for those who just want the very basics or don't want to burn the color ink...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 21, 2013, 05:51:10 PM
The historically inspired designs are a nice touch. But hopefully the player sheets won't get too busy with all that colours, marble and mosaics going on. Yeah, poor old eyes, easily confused. o_o

I was just telling my students in 2D Design that 'complicated doesn't make it good'. My task is to enhance the clarity and usability... function before form and all that ;) For example the playsheet isn't 'full mosaic' even though I initially headed that direction.

The armaturas are smallish- I think to play you need perhaps 6-7 sheets of paper printed in color, total, for the gladiator types, the playsheet, and counters?

I can do a 'bare bones' linear version if players want that. Too easy  lol
 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 12:02:10 AM
Which are the final three Galdiators types who make up the nine?

Three "exotic" armaturae, the Crupellarius, Dimachaerus and Scissor (Arbelas)

Yeah, poor old eyes, easily confused. o_o

With your painting skills, Doc Morris, I find that hard to believe.

I can do a 'bare bones' linear version if players want that. Too easy  lol

 lol I MUCH prefer the mosaic one personally, but maybe a very basic "outline" version is not such a silly idea  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 22, 2013, 03:29:50 AM
I absolutely prefer the mosaic one.  Very slick.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 22, 2013, 09:47:11 AM
The houses of Medicus Mortem, Biblius the Flos and Malamutius Calvus will be meeting tonight to spill much needed blood and spend coin.

Hopefully some pictures will follow ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 10:11:24 AM
Hopefully some pictures will follow ;)

Great!! Reserving a ring side seat in anticipation. Could do with a snack though...

"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar. Tuscany fried bats."
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 22, 2013, 10:26:49 AM
Great!! Reserving a ring side seat in anticipation. Could do with a snack though...

"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar. Tuscany fried bats."

 lol

We'll be having Pizza.  :D

Its traditional at our games nights and being Italian it fits the theme lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 11:49:24 AM
We'll be having Pizza.  :D

What would gaming be without pizza? Now make sure you kill someone this game Nick - cheat if you have to!  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on August 22, 2013, 03:55:36 PM
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. So this sheet will be used with overlays of individual armor and weapons to demonstrate the gladiators ponopoly for each type? Sort of like a paper doll? Will these arms/armor be in the graphic itself or cut-outs that you add to the doll yourself as your equipment varies?

Steve
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 22, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. So this sheet will be used with overlays of individual armor and weapons to demonstrate the gladiators ponopoly for each type? Sort of like a paper doll? Will these arms/armor be in the graphic itself or cut-outs that you add to the doll yourself as your equipment varies?

Steve

The updated mosaic 'armatura sheet' is a smallish 3.5" x 5" template with armor stats specific to each class of gladiator. My current plan is to depict each gladiator with his generally accepted historical weapon and armor load out. This little sheet is laid on top of the main 'playsheet'. Counters are then placed on top of both, since they fluctuate. Your playsheet has an area off to the side where you place an actual weapon counter- since it is possible to be disarmed it is designed to be removable.

If you take a look at page 1, you'll see a generic playsheet with a white 'armature' sheet laid on top of it, labelled 'Murmillo'.

I hope that helps.

For those questioning the amount of colored ink used- when I printed the playtest files I had three armatura on one page (I think 12 at most, so four pages) a playsheet, and two pages of counters (not full pages), a QRF, and lastly a 'gladiator record sheet'. I don't think I'm missing anything. To be honest I'm not sure this HAS to be printed in color at all.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 22, 2013, 04:45:19 PM
I suppose it's time to have the 'which hand holds the net' discussion since that's what I'm working on next  lol

I placed the net in the left hand, the arm with the manica and galerus.

I went that route because of these images:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/4131/4ivw.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img827/7741/1vu1.jpg)

(http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/images/852697/retiarius.jpg)

But, there's about an equal amount of counter evidence so I really don't know. I know I'd want the trident in my best hand, AND I'd ALSO want the net in my best hand especially if I want to wing it off a nice distance. I think it stands to reason that a retiarius would want his galerus facing the opponent as much as possible, and that a long hafted weapon would be easier to manipulate if it was on the other, right hand side. I think it would be easier to get the trident into the positions in the above mosaics if it is held in the right (unarmored) hand.

I suspect that not all retiarius fought the same way, but who knows? It was probably pretty fluid. If I recall correctly the Romans didn't care what your dominant hand was, you were training the same way. But, there are historical records of gladiators that switched it up and fought with the left hand dominant.

Maybe, for armatura purposes it doesn't matter, and the player can pick which hand he puts the actual counters on, and can switch them after a net cast. I don't know if that's reflected in the rules? Is disarming a weapon held in two hands the same as any other disarm?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 22, 2013, 07:05:42 PM
Most miniatures portray it that way anyway, and as you said the tokens can be placed in either hand.  Just go with what you've chosen, not a big deal!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 22, 2013, 08:41:17 PM
(http://)
The houses of Medicus Mortem, Biblius the Flos and Malamutius Calvus will be meeting tonight to spill much needed blood and spend coin.

Hopefully some pictures will follow ;)

Live from the ring side we have the first bout of Kneadsa Wrest, a Mermillo from Graecia and Pernix the Thraex from Gaul.

The initial set up (good coffe table game this  :) )

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/9E12C4D4-3A18-40CC-94DD-0A7974C20241-8757-0000076143EF2974_zps4f607c6d.jpg)

A lot of cut and thrust and was fairly fair even though Pernix was a level higher than Kneadsa.

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/BB0A1760-FD28-431A-8871-42A85A36B758-8757-00000761386D3E17_zpsd4448f06.jpg)

The tide started to turn though with Pernix having the advantage in arena dice and the fact that Kneadsa kept dropping his bloody weapons...

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/5AD0E89D-D395-40C9-8268-5E771D6829C5-8757-000007611B4CE2C6_zps280fa062.jpg)

Kneadsa finally had to ask for missio as I didn't want to loose another member of the Ludus so quick  lol

The second match is progressing as I type and I'm sure that a short report will be forth coming  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 08:56:21 PM
Live from the ring side we have the first bout of Kneadsa Wrest, a Mermillo from Graecia and Pernix the Thraex from Gaul.

A live report - awesome!!  :o  :o  :o

The arena looks great guys - poor clumsy Kneadsa  :(, but happy days Pernix  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 22, 2013, 09:05:54 PM
Awesome stuff...I expect photos of the second match to become more blurred, less organized table as the beer bottles stack up... :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 09:16:32 PM
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. So this sheet will be used with overlays of individual armor and weapons to demonstrate the gladiators ponopoly for each type? Sort of like a paper doll? Will these arms/armor be in the graphic itself or cut-outs that you add to the doll yourself as your equipment varies?

A "paper doll" was actually one of my original concepts for the game, but was not practical (although very cool). As Dr Mathias has kindly explained, each armatura (style of gladiator) will have its own small sheet. There are only nine such types, but should each player be fighting with the same type of gladiator, you may need two of the same sheet.

For those questioning the amount of colored ink used- when I printed the playtest files I had three armatura on one page (I think 12 at most, so four pages) a playsheet, and two pages of counters (not full pages), a QRF, and lastly a 'gladiator record sheet'. I don't think I'm missing anything. To be honest I'm not sure this HAS to be printed in color at all.

I am unsure at the moment exactly what format the finished product will take. The sheets may be provided, printed on light card stock, cost permitting.

Maybe, for armatura purposes it doesn't matter, and the player can pick which hand he puts the actual counters on, and can switch them after a net cast. I don't know if that's reflected in the rules? Is disarming a weapon held in two hands the same as any other disarm?

I guess it doesn't really matter ruleswise, but I would like to get the hands right. I've always thought the opposite, left hand trident, right hand net, but I'm far from an expert. Now I'm starting to seriously  doubt my line of thinking... :?
The trident and spear do both receive a small bonus to resist being disarmed, regardless of hands etc.
If think I will have another chat to some "experts" on more gladiator focused forum, and see if we can't come up with a definitive answer.

Awesome stuff...I expect photos of the second match to become more blurred, less organized table as the beer bottles stack up... :D

 lol  lol  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 22, 2013, 09:19:05 PM
Breaking news!

Nisus the Retiarius from Hispania defeats Engle the unpopular, (Secutor) with a fine display of skill and dexterity in a match that lasted approximately 6 rounds.

Nisus used his trident to its full potential making savage thrusts to Engle's legs leaving one disabled and the other seriously damaged. Engle fell to the floor on several occasions. Nisus retiring each time to recover his stamina. Engle eventually lost the use of his Gladius arm with another trident thrust and asked for Missio....

Engle will return again under his new name Engle the Bearable.

Photos soon.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 22, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
Gits!

You mean that you are playing Gladiators AND drinking beer while some of us are at work?
 >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 22, 2013, 09:25:32 PM
Gits!

You mean that you are playing Gladiators AND drinking beer while some of us are at work?
 >:( >:( >:(




 lol

Yes indeedy :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 09:32:18 PM
Engle will return again under his new name Engle the Bearable.

 lol  lol  lol - the legend begins...

Looking forward to the pics - loving the live coverage.

You mean that you are playing Gladiators AND drinking beer while some of us are at work?
 >:( >:( >:(

Don't worry Mason - revenge is sweet. Think of the denarii you are earning.  ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 22, 2013, 09:59:39 PM
Breaking news!

Stavros the Grecian (Thraex) has just asked for Missio following a number of well executed displays by the Myrmillo Morganus the Autocrasus from Germania....

Sadly for Stavros the crowd were unimpressed by the sight of his ruptured spleen and his promising career was short lived....

Lanista Bibbles the Flos will be seen at the slave market next Tuesday morning spending coin on more slaves.

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
Sadly for Stavros the crowd were unimpressed by the sight of his ruptured spleen and his promising career was short lived....

Lanista Bibbles the Flos will be seen at the slave market next Tuesday morning spending coin on more slaves.

 lol

 lol - poor Stavros and Bibbles. The crowd just don't react to a good spleen these days...  :-[

Chin up Bibbles - plenty more fodder where Stavros came from.

I think next time you should offer this as a Pay-Per-View event!!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 22, 2013, 10:23:04 PM
Roll up!
Roll up!

Finest slaves from all corners of the Empire.....

Getcha slaves here!



Bibbles: Seems like you will be after those reinforcements sooner than you first thought.
 :D

'Av sum a dese ones.
Proper lucky slaves, dats wot deese are.
None o' that cheap dodgy rubbish like ya got from Mama Mute.
 ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 22, 2013, 10:41:23 PM
Well, that was disappointing  lol

I have consequently rolled up a new star of the Ludus......

Loath and dull, he's called Manuel and he's from Barcelona   :-[  lol

Shitest Ludus going  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: philhendry on August 22, 2013, 10:45:37 PM
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/5AD0E89D-D395-40C9-8268-5E771D6829C5-8757-000007611B4CE2C6_zps280fa062.jpg)
Go on, I'll bite...  How did you make the arena floor?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 22, 2013, 10:47:17 PM
With a laser (sticks little finger in side of mouth) :)

Should have some standard sizes ready for selling very soon (ten hex oval and ten hex rectangle etc).

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 22, 2013, 11:19:03 PM
Loath and dull, he's called Manuel and he's from Barcelona   :-[  lol

Shitest Ludus going  ;D

 lol  lol  lol Basil?

Well he's smart enough to know being a gladiator is a dumb idea!  lol

Should have some standard sizes ready for selling very soon (ten hex oval and ten hex rectangle etc).

It looks great James - nice compact size too.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: philhendry on August 22, 2013, 11:43:40 PM
With a laser (sticks little finger in side of mouth) :)

Should have some standard sizes ready for selling very soon (ten hex oval and ten hex rectangle etc).
Ah, great - I might well be in the market for one!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 23, 2013, 12:14:54 AM
The announcements give me the image of some Newsie in the 1920's shouting on the street corner of Brooklyn.

"EXTRA EXTRA, THRACIAN BEGS MISSIO, CROWD DEMANDS BLOOD, GET YA COPY HEA!  TWO CENTS!"

(http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/03266u.preview.jpg)

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 23, 2013, 12:44:55 AM
With a laser (sticks little finger in side of mouth) :)

Should have some standard sizes ready for selling very soon (ten hex oval and ten hex rectangle etc).

cheers

James

Nice, nice. I just finished casting about a hundred hexes using a Keebler Studios rubber mold and I have to say I'm not happy with them. The sides aren't 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor for one thing, and I think when glued it might be hard to even tell where one hex ends and another begins. Kind of defeats the purpose :)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2013, 07:04:55 AM
Nice, nice. I just finished casting about a hundred hexes using a Keebler Studios rubber mold and I have to say I'm not happy with them. The sides aren't 90 degrees perpendicular to the floor for one thing, and I think when glued it might be hard to even tell where one hex ends and another begins. Kind of defeats the purpose :)

Sounds like you went to an awful lot of trouble Matt.  :( I think James' hex arena looks great and a lot less work.

Regarding the trident/net-hand debate. Here is a fairly serious lot of reenactors who seem to all use the net in their right hand. The stance and method of attack seems fairly natural to me. The armored left arm extends forward like other gladiator stances and the net being held back in the right, allows for a nice swing forward, which would be difficult to do from the extended left hand. Still confused.  o_o I do know the big retiarius looks like a bloody dangerous fellow to fight though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_fbAR5bF8Y
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 08:47:16 AM
Still confused.  o_o I do know the big retiarius looks like a bloody dangerous fellow to fight though.

His opponent does not seem to learn through experience, though, does he?
 ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 23, 2013, 09:18:21 AM
Well, that was disappointing  lol

I have consequently rolled up a new star of the Ludus......

Loath and dull, he's called Manuel and he's from Barcelona   :-[  lol

Shitest Ludus going  ;D

cheers

James
Sooo  How did you do it?  The arena looks great!  Do you have WIP photos?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 23, 2013, 10:04:46 AM
I suppose Malamute better make a Basil then...  lol lol lol


I am really tempted by the prospect of doing some gladiator gaming.

Now go away.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 10:48:09 AM
I am really tempted by the prospect of doing some gladiator gaming.

Now go away.

 lol
Mr Crazy Viking: There will be some Gladi-shenanigans at BLAM, I am sure.
PM me your address and I will send you a couple of spare slaves to train up for the event.
 ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 23, 2013, 10:53:43 AM
lol
Mr Crazy Viking: There will be some Gladi-shenanigans at BLAM, I am sure.
PM me your address and I will send you a couple of spare slaves to train up for the event.
 ;)



WEhooo! Tooot tooot!  :D ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 23, 2013, 10:55:52 AM
WEhooo! Tooot tooot!  :D ;D

We will look forward to putting them to the sword >:D

 :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 23, 2013, 10:56:50 AM
We will look forward to putting them to the sword >:D

 :D

You and me first, limey!  8)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
You and me first, limey!  8)

 lol
Nothing like a bit of fighting talk to raise the stakes!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 23, 2013, 11:06:52 AM
lol
Nothing like a bit of fighting talk to raise the stakes!



 lol

A crazy Viking Gladiator, now thats a figure I would like to see ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 23, 2013, 11:34:41 AM
Sooo  How did you do it?  The arena looks great!  Do you have WIP photos?

Not as such no...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56233.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56233.0)

Should be all in there somewhere.

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Eric the Shed on August 23, 2013, 12:05:46 PM
Looks great guys...looking forward to seeing this in the flesh

Off on my hols soon so catch up on my return...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 23, 2013, 12:31:04 PM
Not as such no...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56233.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56233.0)

Should be all in there somewhere.

cheers

James

Cheers!  Great stuff Mate!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 23, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
lol

A crazy Viking Gladiator, now thats a figure I would like to see ;)

You will! Count on it. Malamutius will have his heart handed to him on a plate.. or have his hand plated to him on a heart. Oh dang, I'll be damned.  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 05:06:34 PM
 lol

The Crazy Viking speaketh!


That sounds like the Crazy Viking is calling you out;

"You gonna get it, Mumu!"

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 23, 2013, 08:46:34 PM
Guys, just in case, please stay on topic and keep the banter moderate. ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 08:52:02 PM
Guys, just in case, please stay on topic and keep the banter moderate. ::)

Sorry, Doc!
(And Furt).

Just friendly banter with the best of intentions.
 :D

It is all Furt's fault anyway, getting us all excited with these rules......
 ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2013, 10:23:38 PM
It is all Furt's fault anyway, getting us all excited with these rules......
 ;)

Next time I shall ask the good Doc Morris to break out his vinewood rod!!  >:D

All, jokes aside, this kind of banter/bravado is always present in our games - funny how boys like to taunt each other before a good thonging!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 23, 2013, 10:30:37 PM
Next time I shall ask the good Doc Morris to break out his vinewood rod!!  >:D

Ok, OK.
Doc: I am very sorry.
Please dont break out the rod!



All, jokes aside, this kind of banter/bravado is always present in our games - funny how boys like to taunt each other before a good thonging!!

Never heard of a good 'thonging' before!
 :o

Now I am very scared!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 23, 2013, 10:35:54 PM
"Yes, Master Falhurst, I'm aware a good thonging is in order..."

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2013, 10:36:16 PM
Never heard of a good 'thonging' before!
 :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6e5E20k9jY

I will thong you...

 lol  lol  lol

Now STOP it!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 24, 2013, 05:07:36 PM

A couple of photos from our last game.

 Nisus the Retiarius makes short work of Engle the unpopular, now known as Engle the Bearable after he entertained the crowd and was granted Missio. He survived extensive wounds to fight again.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_24_08_13_7_03_45_0.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_24_08_13_7_03_46_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_24_08_13_7_03_46_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: ben34 on August 24, 2013, 09:31:05 PM
A very very great game, i have a few gladiators, that they want fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 24, 2013, 10:02:05 PM
Engle the Bearable, looks quite promising in that action shot, lunging for Nisus' pancreas! His play sheet tells another story although - ouch  :(

I told you that retiarius looked dangerous Nick.  :D

Was Nisus rather standard or did he have some exceptional attributes? The crowd certainly loved him!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 24, 2013, 10:10:03 PM


Was Nisus rather standard or did he have some exceptional attributes? The crowd certainly loved him!

Standard, all threes.

Played again today and the Retiarius was beaten by the Secutors, so it like they do balance out ok.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 24, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
Played again today and the Retiarius was beaten by the Secutors, so it like they do balance out ok.

Excellent stuff!  :D

Score a really good hit on those "net pansies" and they are as good as gone.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 25, 2013, 07:17:07 AM

Score a really good hit on those "net pansies" and they are as good as gone.

"net pansies"  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 25, 2013, 05:35:19 PM
Now STOP it!!

Sorry, Furt.
I shall be a good boy now.
 :D

I just have to say that these rules of yours along with all the lovely piccies etc have broken my resolve and I am eyeing up the pile of Gladioli on my table working out just who is getting a lick of paint first.....even those slaves that have been claimed by the other Lanista in these parts.... ::)
 :D

I should be thinking about plastering, painting and papering walls,not 40mm Gladiators, but where is the fun in that?
 ;)
.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 25, 2013, 06:08:33 PM


I just have to say that these rules of yours along with all the lovely piccies etc have broken my resolve and I am eyeing up the pile of Gladioli on my table working out just who is getting a lick of paint first.....even those slaves that have been claimed by the other Lanista in these parts.... ::)
 :D


Do it. Get some painted ready for the slaughter on Thursday. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 25, 2013, 09:04:57 PM
I should be thinking about plastering, painting and papering walls,not 40mm Gladiators, but where is the fun in that?
 ;)


Such trivial things can wait Mason! Do you want your poor ludus to fall far into the shadow of the illustrious houses of Malamutius Calvus and Medicus Mortem, or even the infamous house of Bibbles the Flos?  :)

Forget renovating man - where is your Dignitas? Get painting!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 25, 2013, 09:10:44 PM
Do it. Get some painted ready for the slaughter on Thursday. :)

I would love to, mate.
No idea how I would fit it in..... o_o



Forget renovating man - where is your Dignitas? Get painting!!

It is not my Dignitas that I am worried about if I start painting Gladioli...
 :o



 ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 25, 2013, 10:21:45 PM
I see an opportunity for a win-win here...how does your wife feeling about redoing your walls with beautiful tiled frescos or gladiatorial combat? :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 23/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 26, 2013, 12:37:43 AM
It is not my Dignitas that I am worried about if I start painting Gladioli...

Best see to that then - eunuchs have no place running a ludus.  :o

I see an opportunity for a win-win here...how does your wife feeling about redoing your walls with beautiful tiled frescos or gladiatorial combat? :D

Now that is an idea. What a games room that will make...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 27, 2013, 11:45:23 AM
Well he's been at it again - the amazing Dr Mathias.

I can't say much more than  :-*  :-*  :-*

Thank you Matt!

Larger pics on the blog if anyone is interested http://adventuresinlead.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/blood-on-sands-murmillo-and-provocator.html

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IoKMGMMzo7A/UhyPF8NKeMI/AAAAAAAABt4/aPWp30Y3Qbg/s400/Murmillo+example.jpg)
MURMILLO

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qqQnLBdQx1o/UhyPFNbXDbI/AAAAAAAABtw/RjgEuosJjUY/s400/Provocator+example.jpg)
PROVOCATOR
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 27, 2013, 11:52:17 AM
They look really, really good. :-*

 I can't wait to see the finished game ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: swordman on August 27, 2013, 11:57:05 AM
nice indeed
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on August 27, 2013, 11:58:03 AM
Very nice.   :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 27, 2013, 01:30:43 PM
Oh, yes!
 :-*

He is a bit of talented fella, that Doc.
No mistakin'.
 8)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 27, 2013, 01:53:30 PM
Thanks for the compliments everyone, I'm pretty happy with the way these are turning out. Each one improves on the earlier ones so I'm having trouble staying away from messing with the playsheet and I already re-tweaked the retiarius. At this point I know more about gladiators than I ever thought possible! I can even spell subligaculum without checking on it first ;) (Still have trouble with ocrea though, lol).

I'm feverishly working on them in hopes of getting all the graphics done before the next little DrMathias arrives in about a month  o_o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on August 27, 2013, 03:44:25 PM
Very nice! You guys should almost Kickstarter this thing it's looking so professional at this point. :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 27, 2013, 08:49:46 PM
Lookin' fantastic.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: thebinmann on August 27, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
Hi

Lovely stuff, any Idea of how this might work solo?

Cheers
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 27, 2013, 10:38:10 PM
Thanks for the compliments everyone, I'm pretty happy with the way these are turning out.

I'm very happy too!!  :D

Very nice! You guys should almost Kickstarter this thing it's looking so professional at this point. :D

Although, the good Dr Mathias is more than pulling his weight in the graphics department, I'm afraid the rules need a little more polish yet. There is a lot of spit, but we definitely need more polish!  :)

Lovely stuff, any Idea of how this might work solo?

I have played BotS many times solo and believe it is an enjoyable and playable experience.

Of course that is without any specific solo mechanics implemented and simply running both your gladiator and opponent simultaneously. It can be a little involved keeping track of two playsheets - but it's not rocket science.

Do you prefer specific solo game mechanics like tables etc to determine your opponent's actions/moves or could you live with making the "best" tactical decision for both gladiators yourself?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: thebinmann on August 28, 2013, 08:27:14 AM
Hi

Thanks for the info

Do you prefer specific solo game mechanics like tables etc to determine your opponent's actions/moves or could you live with making the "best" tactical decision for both gladiators yourself?

I'm happy either way, I play pretty much all games solo anyway, and I agree with your point about the "involvement" of tracking two models/teams it can be easy to forget to use certain skills.

I wondered if you had tought about solo mechanics for beasts? They would seem the best place to start?

I suppose I'll need to wait and get a copy when you release it.

All the best

Adam
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on August 28, 2013, 05:36:11 PM
So is there a list of the Gladiator types one needs for play? I may as well start buying figs and painting as I will clearly be playing this when it comes out...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: jdeleonardis on August 28, 2013, 06:30:18 PM
So, will there be rules released for this?   ;D ;) :)

Im just joking, but I am really excited to see this come to life if you do ever get the chance to release it.  Ive loved the AARs, and your figures and scenery look great!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 28, 2013, 10:02:35 PM

I wondered if you had tought about solo mechanics for beasts? They would seem the best place to start?


I do intend beasts to play a very minor role for some "special events" and as you mentioned they will require some mechanics. I think though the gladiators require more tactical choices, where a beast is more - leap on the gladiator, eat his face kind of thinking.

So is there a list of the Gladiator types one needs for play? I may as well start buying figs and painting as I will clearly be playing this when it comes out...

Light:   Hoplomachus, Retiarius, Thraex
Heavy: Murmillo, Provocator, Secutor
Exotic:Crupellarius, Dimachaerus, Arbelas (Scissor)


So, will there be rules released for this?   ;D ;) :)

Im just joking, but I am really excited to see this come to life if you do ever get the chance to release it.  Ive loved the AARs, and your figures and scenery look great!


Thanks jdeleonardis. The intention is to certainly publish the game and I'm getting there slowly.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 28, 2013, 10:11:07 PM
I do intend beasts to play a very minor role for some "special events" and as you mentioned they will require some mechanics. I think though the gladiators require more tactical choices, where a beast is more - leap on the gladiator, eat his face kind of thinking.

I picked up a few lions on the cheap at GenCon, with intentions of working them in somehow, but I don't know how much fun they'd be even if incorporated. I would think most of the beast hit locations would be head and front arms but that's all I've come up with for mechanics :)

Guess I'll have to come up with some beast and Noxii armatures now...

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 28, 2013, 10:18:28 PM

Guess I'll have to come up with some beast and Noxii armatures now...


Oh YES please !

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7103/7006434932_bcf8c55657_z.jpg)

 ;)  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on August 28, 2013, 10:26:02 PM
I think beasts could be handled very reasonable, given a "skill" level, a number of hitpoints/tokens/stamina, and a simple D6 table ranging from "does nothing" to "attacks" perhaps letting the wounds affect this D6 roll or something.  Very simple, but could be fun.  I was thinking Paul Hicks needs to sculpt some Venatores.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 28, 2013, 10:28:32 PM
Oh YES please !
 ;)  lol

I like the way they did the claws, I wouldn't have thought of that. Looks like that armature is already finished ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 28, 2013, 10:46:45 PM
Guess I'll have to come up with some beast and Noxii armatures now...

Dont say that, as I dont know where we are going to get lions in 40mm scale.
I guess we will have to knock some armatures of a slightly different type up.....

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on August 28, 2013, 10:49:28 PM
Dont say that, as I dont know where we are going to get lions in 40mm scale.

 lol  - probably plastic toy ones would work.

As Elbows said, I think beasts would have a more simple mechanic, but who wouldn't love to mark of their wounds, fatigue etc on a sheet like that?

Anyway - I'd just love to see what Dr Mathias comes up with!

Noxii could possibly be done the same way, if Elbows multiple gladiator tweak can handle it.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Mason on August 28, 2013, 10:55:29 PM
lol  - probably plastic toy ones would work.

Probably the best option.

Or we could just use 28mm lions so it would look like a fight to the death against Tiddles the Destroyer..... ::)


Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on August 29, 2013, 07:06:15 AM
Probably the best option.

Or we could just use 28mm lions so it would look like a fight to the death against Tiddles the Destroyer..... ::)




 lol

Miaow!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: styx on September 01, 2013, 03:40:12 AM
Are you still looking for some help to play test this? Looks rather interesting!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Furt on September 06, 2013, 10:53:25 AM
A couple more Blood on the Sands armatura sheets for your viewing pleasure. This time two "exotic" types, the Crupellarius and Dimachaerus. Historically, little is known about either of these types as they are mentioned only once or twice, but both make for some interesting "spice". Matt Leahy (Dr Mathias) has done an amazing job on these considering there is little to go on and I know the Crupellarius was really worrying him - especially that helmet. I think he's done a great job. Well done Matt.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mE4rFM98sZY/Uimya5nvg7I/AAAAAAAAB00/zMIYp8av9w8/s400/Crupellarius+example.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ppOHmWTB3wM/UimybMGjndI/AAAAAAAAB04/8RKGfbDfoW4/s400/Dimachaerus+example.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 06, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
Awesome stuff. ;D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 06, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
They look great.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 06, 2013, 01:54:20 PM
Thank you sirs :)

Just a few counters and weapons left. I actually finished up a hex grid and am on the way to having a couple gladiators painted :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets 27/8/13**
Post by: axabrax on September 06, 2013, 03:43:52 PM
Might actually be time for me to pick up the Foundry Gladiators I've been eyeing for years and that Steve Barber arena...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 06, 2013, 08:52:43 PM
Had my first game, well two actually, of BotS last night at Malamute Towers.

What a great concept.
I like the mechanics of the combat (even though I am not 100% sure exactly what I am doing yet... ::)) and the effects of wounds etc.

The dice pool is very clever, I particularly like the use of the Skull dice, a nice touch.
I thoroughly enjoyed both games, even if Bad Bad Mama Mute did kill my first Gladioli with his Dalmation....who happened to be a big, bad Dalmation to boot.
 :'(

I then got my behind handed to me on a plate by Bibbles, just when I thought I had his fella under control.
The bloody lunatic scored seven sucesses out of seven!
Not a lot you can do about that, is there?
Drugs test, I reckon!
 :D

This is looking like it will be a great game, Furt, as it is bloody good already.

Cheers!
 :D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 06, 2013, 08:56:29 PM
I then got my behind handed to me on a plate by Bibbles, just when I thought I had his fella under control.

*snigger*

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 06, 2013, 08:59:06 PM
*snigger*

Git!
 ;D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 06, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
*snigger*

cheers

James

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 06, 2013, 09:06:15 PM
lol

Dont encourage him.

If his head gets any bigger it wont fit through the arena doors!
 ;D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: pocoloco on September 07, 2013, 08:03:37 AM
We hear you talk the talk but where are the pics of the said event?  >:( ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 07, 2013, 08:05:29 AM
We hear you talk the talk but where are the pics of the said event?  >:( ;)

I'll post them later, there are only a couple mind you and they are of Bibbles the Flos celebrating his mighty (not) Victories. ;) lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 07, 2013, 08:13:42 AM
I'll post them later, there are only a couple mind you and they are of Bibbles the Flos celebrating his mighty (not) Victories.

He shall henceforce be known as Flossy the Parader.
 :D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 07, 2013, 08:18:25 AM
He shall henceforce be known as Flossy the Parader.
 :D



 lol

Bibbles (Flossy) the Parader ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 07, 2013, 08:25:31 AM
lol

Bibbles (Flossy) the Parader ;)

Yeah, you are right, I know.
I just couldnt resist calling him Flossy, though.

Bibbles the Parader it is.
 :D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 07, 2013, 08:28:18 AM
Yeah, you are right, I know.
I just couldnt resist calling him Flossy, though.

Bibbles the Parader it is.
 :D



 lol

Bibbles if being addressed formally amd Flossy as a sign of affection lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 07, 2013, 09:16:16 AM
Some very exciting stuff happening here!!

Dr Mathias is close to opening his own ludus - looking forward to that!

The House of Spoons has had its debut in the arena, unfortunately facing a veteran of the House of Malamutius Calvus - don't fear mate, revenge is sweet.

And also the infamous House of Bibulus the Flos, aka Bibbles the Parader, has had its first victory, albeit over a poor upstart ludus and amongst rumors of performance enhancing drugs.

Well I'm spent - off to the baths.  :)



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 07, 2013, 09:19:03 AM
As a counselled representative of the Ludus of the honourable Biblius I can quite categorically state that no performance enhancing drugs were used in any form whatsoever. I can comment on loaded dice however  :D

cheers

James 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 07, 2013, 05:05:01 PM
Bibbles of the Flos celebrates his first victory over a Gladiator from the Ludus of Medicus Mortem

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_0.jpg)

The he takes on a Tyro from the House of Spoons

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_1.jpg)

And celebrates his second victory of the night

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_2.jpg)

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 07, 2013, 06:50:35 PM
There he goes......parading again!
 ::)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 07, 2013, 07:11:20 PM
Definitely looks like drugs were used.  ;)

I'd ask for an inquiry...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 07, 2013, 09:19:30 PM
 lol  lol  lol

The best part of ANY gladiator game is gloating over beating your opponent!!

Nice one guys.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Dr DeAth on September 07, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Definately on drugs.

If you compare the two pictures of Bibbles, his head has shrunken in the second one (look at the relative sizes of hands and head and you'll see what I mean) 

Classic indication that mind-enhancing drugs were being used, causing the brain (and therefore the head) to enlarge, as the drugs wear off the head shrinks! 

I rest my case.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 07, 2013, 09:28:07 PM
I rest my case.

And he MUST be right.

After all, he IS a Doctor!

 :D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 07, 2013, 10:58:31 PM
 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 08, 2013, 11:45:41 PM
Pics and AAR coming up from this past weekend at Southern Front (convention in Raleigh, NC)...once I can be assed to get my camera out of the car!

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 09, 2013, 05:20:36 AM
I was able to play a couple of games one-v-one with one of my buddies and then we recruited my buddy's dad and a couple of fellow game designers to partake in a 2 vs. 2 game.  Overall, a lot of praise, and a very very hectic fight.  The two-v-two game ended up being over 8 turns, and was the longest game I've seen played, just a constant back and forth, constant respite, reengage etc.  Very intense stuff.  I was off to host a game and didn't see the end, but two gladiators bled out and one chopped off the arm of the remaining opponent.  Lots of fun was had lots of blood was spilled.  While not caught in a photo the Thraex valiantly defended his fellow Provocator when his shield was stripped off of him, fighting off both opponents.  The addition of the pali made it very dangerous, with many gladiators being knocked prone while fighting with their backs to the posts.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0225_zpsad5ee01d.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0224_zpsc0ec0ffa.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0223_zpsf353a05e.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0222_zps9b1431b0.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0221_zpsc24b4ac2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0220_zpsc048acf7.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0219_zpscbae7833.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0218_zps6915b1a3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0217_zps190bfef3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0214_zps91c79ce4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0213_zps04c076f8.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/DSCN0212_zps30fe68b9.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Dr DeAth on September 09, 2013, 06:04:39 AM
Good to know it's workable as a four way game.

I've noticed that you're using pen strokes to indicate wounds, it's something that Malamute, Mason Jimbibbly and I were discussing last time we met (and BIbbles the Parader was victorious).  We were considering if it would be a good idea to have some check boxes at each location on the Armatura sheet so they could be crossed off as wounds occur. It reduces the need for counters and makes it easier to do the post match admin just in case the Armatura sheet gets knocked and the counters go everywhere.

Dr D

PS - is the double thumbs up now the de-facto post match Parading pose? lol

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on September 09, 2013, 06:51:49 AM
I've noticed that you're using pen strokes to indicate wounds, it's something that Malamute, Mason Jimbibbly and I were discussing last time we met (and BIbbles the Parader was victorious).  We were considering if it would be a good idea to have some check boxes at each location on the Armatura sheet so they could be crossed off as wounds occur. It reduces the need for counters and makes it easier to do the post match admin just in case the Armatura sheet gets knocked and the counters go everywhere.

I strongly concur with that. Boxes to be ticked off reduce the effect of general clumsiness suffered by many gamers (me included).
As much as I like the all new, artful armatura sheets I would recommend to include the basic versions as well – these are ideal for one-off use, no need to laminate them pretty papers. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 09, 2013, 07:07:11 AM
Good stuff  :)

How did the poles on the bases effect the game? If pressed up against one does it count as being pressed against a wall?

PS - is the double thumbs up now the de-facto post match Parading pose? lol

Don't see why not  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 09, 2013, 07:43:40 AM
Great stuff Elbows. They looked like they were enjoying themselves. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 09, 2013, 08:46:08 AM
Yep, we just mark wounds with the marker, then add tokens (I forgot I actually have hundreds of "bleeding" tokens I should be using!).  Regarding the posts, yep we just throw them in there for a minor obstacle.  If you're backed against a post you do count as being backed against a wall.  Thus you risk being knocked prone, etc.  Also, when using multiple gladiators, movement becomes very paramount.

Like most one-vs-one gladiator games, the movement is not super important.  With teammates it becomes much more so.  With our house rules there is a huge penalty to being pinned between two opponents etc.

It was a load of fun, and everyone had a blast (don't worry about the looks of consternation in the pics!)  lol

PS: The Myrmillo suffered a 4-wound stab which bled 4 friggin' times!  That was what led to his downfall (he and the opposing provocator both became spent at the same time, leaving the provocator and Thraex to battle it out).
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 09, 2013, 09:59:43 AM
Thanks Elbows for that AAR. Your game looks great and it looks like it was a great success.

I think your multi-gladiator tweaks will come in quite useful for some special events etc, although having not tested them myself, still fear it may leave a long lull for the gladiators not actively attacking/defending.

The addition of the pali will certainly stir things up, in a similar way as fighting in a smaller arena - making movement and positioning much more important.

As much as I like the all new, artful armatura sheets I would recommend to include the basic versions as well – these are ideal for one-off use, no need to laminate them pretty papers. ;)

I have already discussed this with Dr Mathias a while back, who, as could be imagined, was not phased by the thought of simpler armatura sheets in the slightest. Keeping the old style sheets and adding some boxes, is of course not a problem. I did toy with the idea of check-boxes in an earlier version, but thought it looked a little too Battletech and I didn't want the need for a pen/marker anywhere while playing. Others have said the same about the counters of course. I guess it comes down to personal preference, regardless, I would still suggest using counters for marking fatigue, bleeding, favour etc.

PS - is the double thumbs up now the de-facto post match Parading pose? lol

I think that's a given.  :D

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 09, 2013, 10:18:42 AM
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg)

Bibbles....? Bibbles...?
Is that you, mate...?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheets6/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 09, 2013, 11:57:00 AM
Bibbles....? Bibbles...?
Is that you, mate...?



 lol

A bit thinner perhaps and the moustache ages him, but it certainly looks like Bibbles. ;)

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 09, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
My arse it does  :-[
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 09, 2013, 12:38:55 PM
My arse it does  :-[

James, you are much more handsome than that man and have slightly better taste in clothes.  ;)

Don't let them steal your glory mate - haters!  >:(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 09, 2013, 12:45:58 PM
Haters gonna hate  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 09, 2013, 12:57:41 PM
have slightly better taste in clothes.  ;)



Now that is very much up for debate lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on September 09, 2013, 01:29:07 PM
Still watching, kids… ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 09, 2013, 08:39:47 PM
Still watching, kids… ::)

 lol

Sorry, Doc, I could not resist.

I am afraid it is our very silly British sense of humour.
No (serious) offense is intended at all.
I am sure that Bibbles did not take any of it seriously for one moment.

Honest.

And...to get things back on track: Furt, I shall email you tomorrow, when I have a little more time, with one particular thing that I feel may help with the rules.
 :)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 09, 2013, 08:50:36 PM
Sorry, Doc, I could not resist.

We are this close to a good thonging guys!  lol  lol  lol

And...to get things back on track: Furt, I shall email you tomorrow, when I have a little more time, with one particular thing that I feel may help with the rules.
 :)

I'm looking forward to your thoughts mate.  :)


Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 16, 2013, 01:00:57 AM
Here is a link to another first go play test of Blood on the Sands http://keepergladius.livejournal.com/10291.html
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 16, 2013, 09:42:31 AM
@Furt How easy is it to modify the equipment/armour each gladiator is equipped with? Are the sheets for each class set in stone?

I'm looking to start my ludus in some frontier backwater so want to use lightly armoured slaves to fight it out (I'll have to get some pictures of figures up to show what I mean). So although the main gladiator classes will be there there'll be a fair bit of deviation in armour.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 16, 2013, 10:11:19 AM
Extremely easy.

Each body part is given an armour rating which roughly equates to:

4+: Unarmoured.
5+: Light mail, padding, or greaves.
6+: Heavy shields, heavy helmets, and any other heavy armour.

Beyond this, once you get the game, weapon and shield counters allow you to equip your gladiators however you choose.  Furt's game is definitely aimed at a more historical pairing system, but my fellow gamers and I have been able to come up with alternatives or minor house rules on the fly with little to no fuss.  No reason you couldn't do the same. I don't believe it would tank the game.  Perhaps we could convince Furt to include a blank armatura (similar to the teaser he originally released) with blank armor boxes for just such a contingency?

So it'd be very easy - you just wouldn't have pretty armaturas.  
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 16, 2013, 10:34:31 AM
Pretty armatures wouldn't worry me too much. A blank one would be a good option.  :D

I'm from the WFRP crowd where the character sheet had a nice hit location chart with blank posed model. It gave the players something to doodle on while contemplating their next moves. Unfortunately some of those characters ended up looking a tad odd...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 16, 2013, 12:30:11 PM
Elbows is spot on Ray. You could theoretically configure whatever armour you wanted for your gladiators/slaves to wear.  :)

Of course in the rules the gladiators favour their traditionally armoured sides so the hit location tables favour left leg, left arm etc to mimic their stances.

I will probably provide a blank armatura sheet to modify for this purpose, although it is heading into the realm of "fantasy" rather than historical.

In saying that I think it would be fun just to throw some gladiators together with all weird combinations of weapons and armour and let them slug it out.

I know the WFRP character sheet too. Ours characters grew appendages...

Love to see your figures too.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 16, 2013, 12:45:21 PM
That sounds perfect, thanks Elbows/Furt.  :D

I' m thinking the style of fighting would be the same as each gladiator type but, obviously being from a poorer ludus, the armour would be more scarce. Hence dropping protection, for probably, a bloodier spectacle!  :D

I'm looking at running more historical refights with fully tooled up gladiators too but just wondered whether it was possible.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 16, 2013, 01:00:43 PM
And to be honest, I like WYSIWYG games, especially with man on man combat.... And I've also noticed that more companies play fast and loose with historical realities than not, so this would be a good way to put all those odd ball minis to work!  No lazy gladiators in my Ludus!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 16, 2013, 11:15:46 PM
And to be honest, I like WYSIWYG games, especially with man on man combat.... And I've also noticed that more companies play fast and loose with historical realities than not, so this would be a good way to put all those odd ball minis to work!  No lazy gladiators in my Ludus!

WYSIWYG could definitely work, just don't expect a balanced fight. But the odd piece of armour missing or added wouldn't hurt too much. You could also adapt the Fatigue rules by adding up all the armoured pieces and shields etc to hamper the guy that wears heaps of armour over those that don't.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW Armatura Sheet 21/8/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 17, 2013, 04:09:08 AM

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lqalszUOf60/UhRTigO97PI/AAAAAAAABqg/xFv6DejBztY/s400/Basic+Armatura+Master.jpg)


Furt, I'd think just include one of these with blank armour values and you're set.  Allows people to do what they wish (throw in an unfortunate slave, etc.).
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 17, 2013, 10:16:22 AM
That would be perfect.  :D

Plenty of room for the artists among us too...

I'd used the negative fatigue for wearing a lot of armour for a different game system, it seemed to work quite well. I'd also looked at a negative modifier to initiative to help aid the guys using less armour and relying on agility.

Balance isnt that much of an issue. Who wants to see a fair fight anyway?  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Captain Blood on September 29, 2013, 08:20:20 AM
Had my first game last week - most enjoyable  :)

Now I have my first gladiator - here he is...

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/577_29_09_13_10_15_37.jpg)

Matt, I really love what you're doing with the game artwork. Adds greatly to the flavour.

I nearly understand the rules, even!
(Having read this excellent thread from start to finish - thank you Frank: a true labour of love, and it shows).

Now all we need, is someone to start manufacturing some decent new 40mm gladiators  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 29, 2013, 01:56:36 PM
Agreed Richard.

If only someone would start to produce some quality 40mm gladiators....  ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 29, 2013, 02:13:04 PM
Agreed Richard.

If only someone would start to produce some quality 40mm gladiators....  ::)

Yeah, if only.... ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Captain Blood on September 29, 2013, 02:18:57 PM
What we really need is a lead baron with the right facilities...  ::)

 ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 29, 2013, 02:36:57 PM
It's on the tip of my tongue...  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mason on September 29, 2013, 02:53:06 PM
You lot all look like you have a nervous twitch, what with all this winking.
 ;)

Oh, bugger.
Me too....

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on September 29, 2013, 03:34:21 PM
It's on the tip of my tongue...  ;)

Yep, same for me. :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 29, 2013, 04:03:30 PM
Not a bad idea really, I'd buy some  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on September 29, 2013, 04:17:46 PM
Not a bad idea really, I'd buy some  ;)

Me too.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Captain Blood on September 29, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
What we really need is Hicksy to scale up his recent wonderful work for Brigade Games from 28's to 40's...  ::)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on September 29, 2013, 06:06:47 PM
I just ordered a handful more Foundry miniatures and am eagerly awaiting the release of BOTS.  I'm back working nights right now, so games have been slim.  I do have a BOTS-friendly project I'm working on with a buddy of mine.  Will post details as they become available. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on September 29, 2013, 08:23:21 PM

I nearly understand the rules, even!
(Having read this excellent thread from start to finish - thank you Frank: a true labour of love, and it shows).

Thanks Richard - could you explain a few things to me?  lol


If only someone would start to produce some quality 40mm gladiators....  ::)

Now that could be very dangerous for us 28mm lanistae - very dangerous indeed.


What we really need is Hicksy to scale up his recent wonderful work for Brigade Games from 28's to 40's...  ::)

Hands off our Hicks boys - find your own sculptor!!  >:(

I just ordered a handful more Foundry miniatures and am eagerly awaiting the release of BOTS.  I'm back working nights right now, so games have been slim.  I do have a BOTS-friendly project I'm working on with a buddy of mine.  Will post details as they become available. 

Looking forward to it mate. I've been busy trying to get the campaign rules ready, along with preparing for a local convention where I'm going to demo BotS to a couple of guys. I'd actually like to paint some of my own gladiators too, but its hard to find the time.

I did manage to have a game with my 8 year old son though and I'll hopefully post the results soon.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: axabrax on October 02, 2013, 04:20:26 PM
So it looks like the game requires, what, about an 8" hexed square arena? I'm basing that on the photos from the first few pages of the thread. Does that still hold true?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 02, 2013, 07:33:48 PM
I'd go with something a bit bigger than 8"...but yes the game could be played on a simple hex printed sheet of paper. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: axabrax on October 02, 2013, 07:48:25 PM
What would the author, and anyone else who's played BoS, say is the optimal size for a circular arena (in inches) for this game?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 02, 2013, 07:49:57 PM
As I recall the rules recommend '10 hexes square' for arena size and later suggest gladiators start 3 or 5 hexes apart.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 02, 2013, 07:53:54 PM
My arena is quite small and it's made for some interesting games as it tends not to be a good thing to be up against the wall  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 02, 2013, 09:42:56 PM
What would the author, and anyone else who's played BoS, say is the optimal size for a circular arena (in inches) for this game?

Ultimately the arena size is up to you. Even the hex sizes are unimportant, as long as they fit your choice of figure well.  :)

Mostly, the size of the arena will effect how important maneuvering becomes to avoid hitting the wall. In a larger arena this aspect can be almost ignored, but in a smaller arena it becomes a threat that gladiators need to figure into their moves.

I personally play on an oval grid 11 x 9 hexes. This is "small" enough that the wall rule still comes into effect.

The arena in the first posts of this thread was a little too small. A good couple of attacks from your opponent would find you hitting the wall very quickly. But this could work for more of a "death pit" kind of arena.

But to answer your question, for a circular arena I would say 11" in diameter would be optimal.

Depending on where you live, I'm sure jimbibbly could whip you up a great circular arena in no time.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 03, 2013, 06:17:20 AM
My project will probably end up around 14"x20" (enough room for two vs. two combats).  It will have 1.5" hexes most likely...will post when a rough draft is made.  Also, no reason you couldn't use various size set-ups.  By varying the size you'd be varying the type of fighting immensely.  A fight inside a small patron's courtyard might be more close and bloody than a normal arena, where the Coliseum would obviously give you a large fighting area etc.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 03, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
I need to write mine up!  My Hopomachus skewered my Myrmidon.....  It was awful!

I'll get to this once I get home from the States!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 03, 2013, 07:03:32 PM
Too Bo Coo, if you end up near South Carolina while you're here, let me know - I'll host a game or two for ya!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: axabrax on October 04, 2013, 03:36:32 PM
I'm not sure why I get why you would need a larger arena for 2 pairs of gladiators. Other than an increased chance for collisions between men, pair 1 has a surface to fight on and pair 2 has a surface to fight on, both the same size. Why do they need more room?

The game also isn't really meant for multiple combats, is it? Is the idea that you would have two separate games going on in the same arena? Or could one player control a pair of gladiators?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 04, 2013, 07:15:21 PM
Nope, all personal preference.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 04, 2013, 08:10:55 PM
I need to write mine up!  My Hopomachus skewered my Myrmidon.....  It was awful!

I'll get to this once I get home from the States!

Please do Too Bo Coo - I'm looking forward to it.

I'm not sure why I get why you would need a larger arena for 2 pairs of gladiators. Other than an increased chance for collisions between men, pair 1 has a surface to fight on and pair 2 has a surface to fight on, both the same size. Why do they need more room?

The game also isn't really meant for multiple combats, is it? Is the idea that you would have two separate games going on in the same arena? Or could one player control a pair of gladiators?


Elbows has been experimenting with running multiple pairs of gladiators, something the rules were not originally designed for, but apparently work. I haven't had the opportunity to play test Elbows tweaks properly, but do intend to when I have completed the campaign rules for play testing. Regardless, multiple gladiators in the arena would be a "special event", not a common occurrence. I think a "normal" sized arena would still suffice though - as Elbows said it is his personal preference to make a larger one.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 04, 2013, 09:09:22 PM
Yep, and while I don't imagine I'll be needing another Gladiator rules set, why not be prepared?  Occasionally my buddies like to play Arena Games for a more beer-n-pretzels (read: drunk) approach.  Games like require much more movement/space by comparison and we often play 4 people per game etc.   I am also going to shoe-horn some rules together to fight small groups of slaves, perhaps animals etc.  I also find that a slightly large arena/mat makes it a bit more accessible when you're gaming.  Also, something about the size of an arena showing off how well developed your town or province is anyway... lol

I think the beauty of BOTS though is that you can make it very travel friendly, as far as the arena goes.  A simple sheet of paper can suffice, or some of the beautiful small cookie tin arenas which are so popular here.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: axabrax on October 04, 2013, 09:33:43 PM
All sounds good. I think pairs of Gladiators and a Gladiator vs an animal would be nice to have, but larger than that I may go for a different system--which is fine. I have no issue with using BOTS for man-to-man and something else when I want a grand melee. I'm thinning about investing in the Steve Barber Arena actually as it's about 11" across, which is perfect size according to Furt  :D I'll just need to find a way to create a hexed sand insert for the arena floor...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mason on October 04, 2013, 10:06:16 PM
I'm thinning about investing in the Steve Barber Arena actually as it's about 11" across, which is perfect size according to Furt  :D I'll just need to find a way to create a hexed sand insert for the arena floor...

I am sure one of Jimbibbly's would work just fine.
 ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Watts on October 09, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
This looks awesome! So good that I had to create an account on this forum to say so ;)

Now I'm off to order some models...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 09, 2013, 01:54:07 PM
This looks awesome! So good that I had to create an account on this forum to say so ;)

Now I'm off to order some models...

It is awesome and is truly a very enjoyable game. ;D

Frank, how are those campaign rules coming along. ??? :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 10, 2013, 08:59:36 AM
It is awesome and is truly a very enjoyable game. ;D

Frank, how are those campaign rules coming along. ??? :)

I have to admit I've been a bit slack posting on the forum lately, but haven't been sitting on my laurels. I've managed quite a few play test games (the photos sucked) and even ran a game or two at a local convention, where BotS was well received.

And I have been working hard on the campaign rules and really do hope to have them ready soon.  :)

I'm just tying up a few lose ends and then they'll be ready for you blokes to pull apart!!  lol

After that I need to do a QRS (jimbibbly has requested that a few times) and then I will finally try and complete the rulebook proper. I've heard a few times now that even though the game may be 80% finished and is good, it is the last 20% that could make it great. And that 20% is proving a challenge! 

On another note I've been jotting down notes for a BotS fantasy and "death pit" (hope that's not a GW term) supplement that I hope to produce as well. I've even painted a few figures with a fantasy twist that I've wanted to paint for some time.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 10, 2013, 09:12:27 AM
All sounds good Frank  8)

You're certainly onto a winner with this one  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on October 10, 2013, 09:24:29 AM
Looking forward to playing these at some point.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 10, 2013, 09:39:22 AM
Looking forward to playing these at some point.  :D
Ray, if you are at BLAM on the Friday we will be hosting some BoTS arena fun, so you will able to spill your blood inthe name of the Emperor. :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 10, 2013, 10:28:14 AM
Did you intend to use the campaign rules at BLAM Nick or are you happy to start after BLAM?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 10, 2013, 10:32:56 AM
I think we will probably do some short contests,  with some sort of knock out system resultingsomeone being the Primus Palus on the day. I don't think we will need the campaign rules for that?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 10, 2013, 08:37:30 PM
A simple elimination type contest would work, depending on how many players you have.

You may have to throw the matched pairings out the window though, but I think it would work fine. Just try to avoid things like retiarius vs retiarius.

(http://cdn.vertex42.com/ExcelTemplates/Images/single-elimination-tournament-bracket.png)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 11, 2013, 08:37:09 AM
Hi Frank,

Sounds pretty much what we had in mind. Can't have Net Pansies facing off with each other. Its bad enough having one in a match, but two together would be too much. lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 11, 2013, 09:38:58 AM
Don't know what happened to the link to the image but it's back now. Something simple like that would work well, ending with the determining of the Primus Palus.


Sounds pretty much what we had in mind. Can't have Net Pansies facing off with each other. Its bad enough having one in a match, but two together would be too much. lol

And yes you are right, two net pansies do not make them any more manly!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: fastolfrus on October 11, 2013, 10:50:09 PM
Hope the rules are getting close to release - was wanting to take them into school for the end of term (December, so we have a while).
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 12, 2013, 07:18:29 AM
Hope the rules are getting close to release - was wanting to take them into school for the end of term (December, so we have a while).

Although I really hoped they would be done by the end of the year, I can't guarantee that.  :(

I need to keep plodding along until I get it right, but I really appreciate everyone's interest.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: pocoloco on October 23, 2013, 01:03:25 PM
End of the year? No chance of release any sooner?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mason on October 23, 2013, 02:49:06 PM
There should be a fair bit of feedback coming Furt's way very soon, what with the outing for BotS at BLAM next month.

There should be plenty of opinion and discussion there.... ;)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 23, 2013, 02:52:51 PM
There should be a fair bit of feedback coming Furt's way very soon, what with the outing for BotS at BLAM next month.

There should be plenty of opinion and discussion there.... ;)



 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: pocoloco on October 23, 2013, 05:33:31 PM
Next month is too late... unless it's ready before mid-month :)

Oh well, I guess I need to try some other gladiator rules in the meantime.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 23, 2013, 07:52:35 PM
There should be a fair bit of feedback coming Furt's way very soon, what with the outing for BotS at BLAM next month.

There should be plenty of opinion and discussion there.... ;)



I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and suggestions after the game - but will have to take the opinions of the losing lanistae with a grain of salt.  ;)

It sounds like BLAM will feature the largest game of Blood on the Sands played yet - hang on shouldn't I be there?!?!?!  :o

Next month is too late... unless it's ready before mid-month :)

Oh well, I guess I need to try some other gladiator rules in the meantime.

Good things come to those who wait, pocoloco.  :D

In all seriousness, this rule writing business is a lot more difficult than one might imagine, but I am working hard to finish BotS, believe me, as it is taking ALL of my limited free time.

Regardless, it would be a great idea for you to try a few other of the gladiator rulesets - then you'd have something to compare BotS with.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 23, 2013, 08:16:18 PM
Furt,

I'll see if I can swing a game or two either with my Brother (who just had a darling little girl, so time has been scarce) or perhaps with my brother in law when I go up to PA.  Simply put, I don't have any gamers down here, so after my rash of visits from buddies and conventions - I've been sitting looking at my gladiators, not doing a damn thing.

(oddly, I'm also at a similar stage as you with my game...writing/re-writing...constantly!)  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 23, 2013, 10:45:05 PM


It sounds like BLAM will feature the largest game of Blood on the Sands played yet - hang on shouldn't I be there?!?!?!  :o





It's only next week, still plenty of time for you to book a flight, I'll even pick you up from Heathrow airport, BLAM is only a Twenty minute car journey from there. :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 24, 2013, 02:15:16 AM
Furt,

I'll see if I can swing a game or two either with my Brother (who just had a darling little girl, so time has been scarce) or perhaps with my brother in law when I go up to PA.  Simply put, I don't have any gamers down here, so after my rash of visits from buddies and conventions - I've been sitting looking at my gladiators, not doing a damn thing.

(oddly, I'm also at a similar stage as you with my game...writing/re-writing...constantly!)  lol

Congrats uncle Elbows.  :)

It is hard to play anything without a group of gamers!! Maybe I should look at the solo rules again...

I feel your pain with the rule writing/re-writing. I refuse to "release" anything that I haven't put 110% into getting right and that's a slow process unfortunately

It's only next week, still plenty of time for you to book a flight, I'll even pick you up from Heathrow airport, BLAM is only a Twenty minute car journey from there. :D

If only mate, if only.  :'(  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on October 24, 2013, 06:10:49 AM
It is hard to play anything without a group of gamers!! Maybe I should look at the solo rules again...

Solo rules would be much appreciated. Neither the arena I've built nor the gladiators I've distributed for free(!) have inspired anyone to challenge my lanista. Damned backwater! :'(
Of course, real life's getting in the way big time as well. Hence my apologies, Furt, for not reporting back to you lately.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 24, 2013, 10:36:40 AM
Solo rules would be much appreciated. Neither the arena I've built nor the gladiators I've distributed for free(!) have inspired anyone to challenge my lanista. Damned backwater! :'(
Of course, real life's getting in the way big time as well. Hence my apologies, Furt, for not reporting back to you lately.

No probs Mad Doc - I've been so consumed myself I haven't been chasing my playtesters either!!

I do intent on developing a solo play mechanic, which shouldn't be too difficult, but I have to add it to the long list of to do's!!

And seriously if you can't convince anyone to play the game on YOUR arena - what hope do I have!?!?!  :o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on October 24, 2013, 12:37:37 PM
Two of your (formerly) AWOL playtesters, Nice John and i, have pencilled in another bash for Thurs next week  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: John Grant on October 24, 2013, 01:56:43 PM
All we need to do now is remove the digits and get an arena started and finished by next Thursday .............. in the midst of doing the nine 2' x 4' terrain boards for the FIW game.

Need more hours and less inertia!

John
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 25, 2013, 05:56:52 AM
Great news gents -I shall have to get you an updated document me thinks. It has been awhile since we touched base...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on October 25, 2013, 07:12:36 AM
Great news gents -I shall have to get you an updated document me thinks. It has been awhile since we touched base...

Right-O chap. Thanks
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: NickNascati on October 29, 2013, 08:03:28 PM
Furt,
       Are the rules actually available to buy yet?

                                                       Nick
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Elbows on October 30, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
Negative Nick, going through some final proof-reading and testing.  A while yet from what I understand.

I will say though - well worth the wait. ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 30, 2013, 05:23:57 AM
Are the rules actually available to buy yet?


As Elbows has kindly said Nick - not yet - but I am making progress.

At the moment I eat, sleep and breath Blood on the Sands - so I'm keen to finish it too. I have started on the final draft of the rule book proper.

I've had little chance to play much either as I'm always writing and tweaking, so no piccies to show of here.

I'm looking forward to some feedback (and pics) from BLAM although, where Malamutius Calvus is using BotS to run an elimination tournament and H.M.Stanley has promised to have a go in a day or so too.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Mason on October 30, 2013, 08:25:19 AM

I'm looking forward to some feedback (and pics) from BLAM although, where Malamutius Calvus is using BotS to run an elimination tournament....

That will also give him a ready made excuse for being trounced in the arena!
 :D

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on October 30, 2013, 08:52:59 AM
That will also give him a ready made excuse for being trounced in the arena!
 :D



Bold talk from the House of Spoons ;) lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on October 30, 2013, 10:39:23 AM
Just ordered a couple of 12" circular arena bases from Martin at Warbases.  :D

10 hexes in daimeter sized at 28mm to accommodate figures on 2p pieces  

£10 each incl P&P - sorted
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on October 30, 2013, 07:54:56 PM
Just ordered a couple of 12" circular arena bases from Martin at Warbases.  :D


Our own jimbibbly has done a nice one of those http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59338.0
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on October 31, 2013, 08:47:08 AM
Our own jimbibbly has done a nice one of those http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59338.0

Now you tell me  :).Very nice. Exactly what i had in mind
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 01, 2013, 08:50:48 AM
Top fun playing BotS with Nice John yesterday.

NJ wanted to try out an Arbelas so naturally i reached for the Retiarius. John rolled a Skill 4 while all my stats were at 3

We'd not played for quite some time so were very rusty. That's not a criticism of the rules by the way; they play really well. Its just that you can only hold so many rule sets in your head at any one time. Or is that just me?

And that, your honour, is my excuse for what subsequently happened!! My gladiator was decapitated in turn 2, taking 6 wounds to the head on a Killing Blow.

It wasn't until our 2nd game; when my Tiro Retiarius faced another Tiro Arbelas (as an Exotic he should have been more experienced, we know), who was a monster with Skill 5!! [damn that man's dice rolling for abilities], that i remembered the Defence actions incl Net Trips & Retreat that suit a Retiarius so well (i'd not actually played one before)

Crappy camera phone shot or two to follow.

I can't recommend this game highly enough. A couple of figures and you're away.

Best

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: John Grant on November 01, 2013, 11:31:30 AM
I'll endorse all the comments made by James.

More games would make the whole process flow more smoothly, I just need to enter the total ethos of the rule set (naming models etc) and play more games.

Quite a few of the chaps at the club stopped by and chatted to us, the number of figures required was appreciated and I think that once we have total familiarity with the process we wouldn't have much of a problem getting more of them involved - we could have a White Hart Ludos!!!!!!!

J
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 01, 2013, 11:36:19 AM
A WH Ludos. There's a thought.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on November 01, 2013, 08:24:21 PM
Quite a few of the chaps at the club stopped by and chatted to us, the number of figures required was appreciated and I think that once we have total familiarity with the process we wouldn't have much of a problem getting more of them involved - we could have a White Hart Ludos!!!!!!!


I shall have to include you gents in the campaign playtest then.

Where are those piccies?  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: John Grant on November 01, 2013, 10:06:28 PM
Or even a WH Ludus, not your error James its all mine!!!!!!!!!
J
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 02, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
Or even a WH Ludus, not your error James its all mine!!!!!!!!!
J

This should be interesting. Two men from Yorkshire correcting each other's Latin  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Furt on November 03, 2013, 02:13:11 AM
Spent a couple of hours yesterday with some local ancients re-enactors, who do Roman, Greek and Macedonian.

It was great watching them go through their Roman marching and pilum throwing drills in 30+ degree heat.  :o

Unfortunately the couple of gladiators amongst them were too worn out and injured to put on a gladiatorial display for me (I would have been a lenient editor too).

I did get to touch their cool stuff and pick their brains though, concerning Blood on the Sands. It was very informative.

After talking to these gents I am fairly confident I have done my best to capture the feel of a man on man gladiator match and hope it confers that feeling to the players.

And concerning which hand a reitiarius holds his trident - they are convinced he wields it in his armored left hand.  :D

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_03_11_13_3_01_46.jpg)
A picture of their cool stuff - those helmets were heavy!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Poiter50 on November 03, 2013, 03:52:41 AM
That would avoid getting the net tangled on rivets/protusions on the armour and protect the spear arm as well.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Juan on November 03, 2013, 03:24:07 PM
First hand study of the topic... I´m really interested in your ruleset, and I have ordered some of the new Brigade Games´gladiators.

So I need to nuy your rulebook!!!  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Watts on November 08, 2013, 04:24:21 PM
AAR - Waldhar vs. Dumnorix

I played my first game of Blood on the Sands this week! Although i messed up a few rules the game went really well and my opponent and I had a blast! Here's how it went down.

(http://i.imgur.com/qh9R85Xl.png)

Waldhar, a beast of a Murmillo (Strength 4) plucked from some dirty hovel in Germania glared at the rather unimpressive looking Thraex - Dumnorix of Gaul. This would be a match of finesse over brawn.

Dumnorix easily won the advantage thanks to the Murmillo's heavy scutum. He opened the match with a flurry of blows attempting to flank Waldhar and get in some early strikes with his sica, but they bounced harmlessly of the German's giant shield. The crowd was unimpressed.

(http://i.imgur.com/A6avCs7l.png)

Waldhar responded with a series of quick brutal attacks, pressing with a savage beatdown that knocked Dumnorix flat on his back. The crowd was whipped into a frenzy as the Thraex lay bleeding from the wounds to his right leg! Pain shot up the Gaul's wounded limb as he attempted to stand while the German rained blows down upon him. Dumnorix managed to ward off most of the strikes with his parma and regain his footing. There were scattered cheers in the crowd - they appreciated his determination, but they were still solidly behind Waldhar's savage performance!

(http://i.imgur.com/UpoFNBkl.png)

Dumnorix tried in vain to respond with more attacks that bounced off the huge scutum yet again. The German, sensing victory struck his gladius square in the side of his opponent's helmet with a mighty THUNK. The Gaul fell to the ground and dropped his weapon. Surely he would be asking for missio now...

(http://i.imgur.com/ZGjbtRql.png)

The Gaul had one more good attack left in him. Waldhar hadn't suffered a scratch and had the crowd firmly on his side. Dumnorix rose and plucked his weapon from the ground under Waldhar's nose and attacked. Laughs poured out from behind his helmet while the Thraex bounced blow after blow off his seemingly invincible shield. With one last strike, Waldhar struck another blow on Dumnorix's right leg, crippling him. The Gaul fell to the ground in a heap.

(http://i.imgur.com/YR2Ui7bl.png)

Dumnorix plead for mercy. The crowd were cheering wildly for the massive German, but they must have admired the Gaul's tenacity. He was spared and carted away as a trail of blood marked his exit from the arena.

***

Blood on the Sands is such a good game. The guys in my club seem to be really interested in trying it, and my opponent from last night is about to start painting some gladiators as well. More to come next week!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 08, 2013, 04:27:08 PM
Great report!!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW AAR 9/9/13**
Post by: Malamute on November 08, 2013, 05:03:44 PM
Great report!!!

Seconded!

It certain;y is a great game ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Furt on November 08, 2013, 08:30:34 PM
What an awesome first report!! Thanks for posting this Watts.

I fear poor Dumnorix may have fared a little better had he been holding his sica the right way round.  ;)

At least he was spared for his tenacity and may have a victory yet, But that leg looks pretty bad!!  :o

Another "marker pen" fan I see - was it a case of not having cut out the counters or do you prefer the marker?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Watts on November 08, 2013, 08:32:53 PM
Th marker worked OK but I can see how the counters might be a bit better for some things (at least with the playsheet as-is). I didn't have time to do all the markers for my game so I went with the pen, but I think I will try them out next week.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Ray Earle on November 08, 2013, 08:35:33 PM
Great report. Poor old thraex though, at least he was spared, he will return!!

Nice simple looking arena too. It's amazing how good a game can look with a coloured mat and a couple of nicely painted figures.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Captain Blood on November 08, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
Great report  :)

I've only played the game with Malamutus et al, who seem to quite like dibbling the squillions  of tiny paper chits around the table on the end of their licked fingers...
I did wonder if the marker pen approach may be a little tidier - if not quite as atmospheric!
(Or maybe a combination of the two? Pens for marking (many many) wounds on the armatura, counters for things like crowd favour and weapons... Maybe?)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Furt on November 08, 2013, 09:12:26 PM
Great report  :)

I've only played the game with Malamutus et al, who seem to quite like dibbling the squillions  of tiny paper chits around the table on the end of their licked fingers...
I did wonder if the marker pen approach may be a little tidier - if not quite as atmospheric!
(Or maybe a combination of the two? Pens for marking (many many) wounds on the armatura, counters for things like crowd favour and weapons... Maybe?)

I must admit that I have been marking Wounds with a red marker pen too - there I said it!!

But I still feel that counters are necessary for mostly everything else. I really want the playsheet to be a big part of the game, where you can visualize what is happening to your poor sod lugging it out in the arena. I think the counters help make it more visually appealing in my opinion, considering at the core of the game there are "only two miniatures on a mat". Regardless folk are more than free to play the game how they see fit.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Watts on November 08, 2013, 09:18:20 PM
I think I would agree. It wasn't really easy to tell at a glance how many counters we had for fatigue, bleeding etc.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Elbows on November 08, 2013, 09:41:44 PM
I use markers for some things, counters for others.  No worries.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 11, 2013, 09:58:36 AM
I pasted the markers "double sided" to aid finding the ones needed.

they are a little bit fiddly but i do think they add to the atmosphere of the game
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 11, 2013, 11:33:42 AM
I must admit that I have been marking Wounds with a red marker pen too - there I said it!!


Oh, you swine  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 11, 2013, 03:13:50 PM
Oh, you swine  lol

cheers

James

Actually, I'm guilty of the Red Marker crime myself.....

Jim when you are fully recovered if I can get in line for one of your hex mat things I would be a VERY happy guy! :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: mcfonz on November 11, 2013, 07:02:14 PM
I spent the last couple of evenings reading through this thread from the start. A good old fun bit of bedtime reading it was too.

Looks like I need a Ludus and some slaves. Perhaps a little Christmas project? The kids I work with would probably love this.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **AAR 9/11/13**
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 11, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
They're addictive!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 17, 2013, 05:12:40 AM
Just wanted to show a quick example of some of the great counter art Dr Mathias has produced for Blood on the Sands.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_17_11_13_6_10_53.jpg)

I know Matt has been so very busy with his own life and commitments, but has selflessly continued to work on BotS, for little more than my undying gratitude.

You are a legend Matt - thanks again.

Any comments or critiques would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Captain Blood on November 17, 2013, 08:00:50 AM
Brilliant. Love this artwork  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Malamute on November 17, 2013, 08:04:40 AM
Oooooh yes, they are rather nice. :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 17, 2013, 08:11:52 AM
They are rather fine  8) 8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Ray Earle on November 17, 2013, 08:20:53 AM
Great work on those counters. They're excellent.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Juan on November 17, 2013, 08:25:52 AM
Fantastic counters  :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 18, 2013, 10:38:29 AM
Thanks all - sounds like that's a thumbs up then.  :)

Also, here is a quick glimpse of how the armatura will be presented in the book.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_18_11_13_11_37_00.gif)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Malamute on November 18, 2013, 10:49:59 AM
Looking really, really good. :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Ray Earle on November 18, 2013, 11:45:37 AM
That is really very nice.  :D

I look forward to being able to play this game once released, the effort gone into the graphic representations is brilliant. Should be a lovely rulebook just to look at.  :D
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 18, 2013, 12:33:52 PM
Frank, it all looks just fantastic!  The counters, the Style Entry  (Hoplomachus is my favorite!)

AND I have an opponent (who is not my lovely fiancee) lined up for Thursday night and I can get a legit full game in!  I'll post up the AAR with pics over the weekend! 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Juan on November 18, 2013, 03:04:17 PM
Very nice. And I´m going to paint this gladiator from "Brigade Games" in this moment!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: axabrax on November 18, 2013, 04:39:11 PM
Is the game actually going to be sold as a printed copy, or is it going to be print and play? I would love to have all the counters on thick card or chits.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 18, 2013, 08:07:53 PM
AND I have an opponent (who is not my lovely fiancee) lined up for Thursday night and I can get a legit full game in!  I'll post up the AAR with pics over the weekend!  

That's good news TBC, not that playing with the fiancee is a bad thing - I wish I could get my better half to have a game!  lol

Is the game actually going to be sold as a printed copy, or is it going to be print and play? I would love to have all the counters on thick card or chits.

Now that's the real dilemma axabrax. Being a struggling "backyard" game designer, doesn't leave a lot of options. The task of publishing a hardcopy book and having the necessary sheets and counters printed on decent card stock is going to cost a lot of green stuff, compared to releasing this in PDF form as "print & play". Although I would love to see BotS in actual book form, it seems unlikely at this stage. The only alternative would be to KS it, which I'm not really keen to do. There is also the dice dilemma to consider - whether I get some made professionally (very expensive) or let everyone make their own with blank dice.  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: NickNascati on November 18, 2013, 08:39:20 PM
As someone else suggested, just make the dice images available as a download.  That is what the SAGA folks did, or else come up with a table of comparison numbers/images.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 18, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Actually, with the pdf now, I think I can just print to a clear vinyl 'paper' then cut and stick those to the dice. 
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 18, 2013, 09:21:25 PM
Now that's the real dilemma axabrax. Being a struggling "backyard" game designer, doesn't leave a lot of options. The task of publishing a hardcopy book and having the necessary sheets and counters printed on decent card stock is going to cost a lot of green stuff, compared to releasing this in PDF form as "print & play". Although I would love to see BotS in actual book form, it seems unlikely at this stage. The only alternative would be to KS it, which I'm not really keen to do. There is also the dice dilemma to consider - whether I get some made professionally (very expensive) or let everyone make their own with blank dice.  :?

I wonder how much it cost to produce Stargrunt and Dirtside, both were softcover staple-bound IIRC and both included two sheets of heavy 'chit' counters.

I looked into having some BotS dice made for myself and they're not cheap. If enough people got together I would bring costs down, but I know I wouldn't want to take a leap of faith and get stuck with hundreds of extra dice.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 18, 2013, 09:48:34 PM
As someone else suggested, just make the dice images available as a download.  That is what the SAGA folks did, or else come up with a table of comparison numbers/images.

The dice symbols will always be available with the rules or as a download to make your own. Alternatively you can of course use standard six sided dice, the symbols have a corresponding number, but you do lose some of the flavour and ease of play IMOP. My intention was never to market the dice, but others have expressed a want for "proper" dice and I guess it would be nice as an option.

Actually, with the pdf now, I think I can just print to a clear vinyl 'paper' then cut and stick those to the dice. 

On the play test dice sheet I describe how I do my own dice, quite simply - print on normal paper, cover with contact than cut out and stick to blank dice with PVA glue. I'd love to hear the results TBC of an alternative way.

I wonder how much it cost to produce Stargrunt and Dirtside, both were softcover staple-bound IIRC and both included two sheets of heavy 'chit' counters.

I must admit I have not looked into boardgame quality counters, simply because I believe the price will be way too much. The counters deserve to be on nice card stock for sure. Personally I mount mine on a vinyl tile that I cut up. It makes the counters weighty and sturdy.

I looked into having some BotS dice made for myself and they're not cheap. If enough people got together I would bring costs down, but I know I wouldn't want to take a leap of faith and get stuck with hundreds of extra dice.

That's the key. Lots of 1000 are the only options really for anywhere near an affordable price when buying custom dice. Considering each player needs a maximum of 12 dice, that's about 80 sets.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: NickNascati on November 18, 2013, 09:56:05 PM
Furt,
        Any closer to having the rules available? I have an actual Hobby Shop about 20 minutes from me that stocks the 54mm Pegasus sets.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 19, 2013, 08:51:10 AM
The campaign rules have been passed on to a select few for an initial going over, then I'd hope for that part of the rules to be play tested further. So we are still a way off yet Nick.   :(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Malamute on November 19, 2013, 03:51:46 PM

On the play test dice sheet I describe how I do my own dice, quite simply - print on normal paper, cover with contact than cut out and stick to blank dice with PVA glue. I'd love to hear the results TBC of an alternative way.


I copied Frank's instructions and they have worked out fine. It only took about an hour and the cost of the blank dice was minimal.

Hoping to get a few matches in this week with the beginnings of a campaign. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 19, 2013, 04:53:59 PM
I purchased some indented blank dice and some adhesive label sheets from this place:

http://indentedblankdice.com/

Can you believe that NO ONE in the dealer room at GenCon had indented six sided dice? There had to have been 10 dice manufacturers and thousands upon thousands of different dice... but what I needed... nope!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 19, 2013, 04:56:23 PM
Hoping to get a few matches in this week with the beginnings of a campaign. :)

Still waiting for you to confirm... ::)

 ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Watts on November 19, 2013, 05:02:06 PM
Things are really looking great! I'm really glad to hear the campaign rules are coming along as well.

I was supposed to play last week but it got pushed to this Wednesday, so I should have another AAR later this week.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Elbows on November 19, 2013, 11:56:26 PM
For anyone in the US, I picked up some concave dice and made some stickers for them via gamecrafter.  If it's okay with Furt I can put together a dice/stickers combo and link it here (without any profit to me by the way).

I don't know if Furt has any plans on producing/selling dice, so I'll wait for his go-ahead.  I've posted pics of some of the dice before, but I'll take close-ups prior to putting together some dice sets.  Furt, let me know boss.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Ray Earle on November 20, 2013, 10:01:11 AM
Em-4 do custom dice, and also sell blanks. It could be worth contacting them about the possibility of having some done.

I'd contacted them previously about some custom designs and they were very reasonably priced, obviously the price would be much more favourable the more ordered.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Elbows on November 20, 2013, 11:08:51 AM
Hmmm, that'd definitely be worth a look - if anything perhaps we could arrange a big group buy just for LA fellas who want to play.  I love me some custom dice, but they're normally pretty damned expensive (read: $3-4 per dice unless you order hundreds).

I figure players will want/need around 24 dice - this would allow two gladiators at level 6 (needing 12 action dice a piece).  Another option (haven't seen your new sheets Furt) is to simply add a small dice icon in the action dice boxes on the sheet (like you do on the actions sheet).  A small dice face in the lower corner of each action dice box so players can roll normal D6's and quickly associate where to place the dice.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 20, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
Em-4 do custom dice, and also sell blanks. It could be worth contacting them about the possibility of having some done.

I'd contacted them previously about some custom designs and they were very reasonably priced, obviously the price would be much more favourable the more ordered.

I will certainly contact them and get an idea on price. I would like to offer the dice as an option for those that didn't want to make their own.

Alternatively as Elbows mentioned a small icon on the Play Sheet will go a long way in helping those that want to use standard d6. Again though, it just doesn't have the same feel for me rolling "normal" d6.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Ray Earle on November 20, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
Just thought I'd put it out there.

If every player wanted their own 12 dice I should think even just within LAF itself you'd be up to a few hundred dice pretty quickly. If there was the chance to offer them in different colours too, even two opposing colours (black/white, red/blue) I'm sure that would add to the appeal.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 20, 2013, 12:31:22 PM
Guys, the dice are SO easy to make!  I have SAGA which has a similar mechanic and custom dice to go with it, and I decided 12 GBP was just crazy for the plastic, and evidentally I was not alone.  So people went out and made their own.  I dojnt like the EM3 dice, they are rounded edges and no depression. The ones that Furt suggested are cheap and nicely made.  I bought about 8 sets of 12 dice each.  I now have enough for full sets for both games.  If you use the pdf Furt provided, and either follow his instructions or print to clear vinyl, you'll be in dice heaven in no time!  BTW, I agree with Furt 100%, the dice add to the feel of the game.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 20, 2013, 07:56:34 PM
Guys, the dice are SO easy to make!  I have SAGA which has a similar mechanic and custom dice to go with it, and I decided 12 GBP was just crazy for the plastic, and evidentally I was not alone.  So people went out and made their own.  I dojnt like the EM3 dice, they are rounded edges and no depression. The ones that Furt suggested are cheap and nicely made.  I bought about 8 sets of 12 dice each.  I now have enough for full sets for both games.  If you use the pdf Furt provided, and either follow his instructions or print to clear vinyl, you'll be in dice heaven in no time!  BTW, I agree with Furt 100%, the dice add to the feel of the game.

With a bit of time and effort, the dice are really easy to make and do come up pretty impressive looking. I may try to do a white symbol on black background pdf so people can make both a black and white set, which in my opinion look pretty "classic".

I will pursue "professionally" made dice for those still interested. 

TBC - what is the vinyl product? I don't think I have heard of it.  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: YPU on November 20, 2013, 07:59:25 PM
Having read trough this topic I am really looking forwards to finding some time to play this with TBC. Our previous attempts at planing a game have been rather disastrous. 
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 20, 2013, 08:10:40 PM
With a bit of time and effort, the dice are really easy to make and do come up pretty impressive looking. I may try to do a white symbol on black background pdf so people can make both a black and white set, which in my opinion look pretty "classic".

I will pursue "professionally" made dice for those still interested. 

TBC - what is the vinyl product? I don't think I have heard of it.  :?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/130740044923?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Cheers!
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 20, 2013, 08:11:09 PM
Having read trough this topic I am really looking forwards to finding some time to play this with TBC. Our previous attempts at planing a game have been rather disastrous. 

PM me! :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Furt on November 20, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
Having read trough this topic I am really looking forwards to finding some time to play this with TBC. Our previous attempts at planing a game have been rather disastrous. 

There are a few games scheduled in the coming days by quite a few playtesters. I am looking forward to yourself and TBC's inaugural AAR although.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: YPU on November 20, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
PM me! :)
The moment I actually have some time off.  :D Have both my girlfriends and my birthday coming up after that I should manage to actually have a Friday of again, I hope.  :`

Furt, I guess not a lot of chance of getting a copy of the playtest rules so I can be up to date when I get round to that game?  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: fastolfrus on November 20, 2013, 08:46:20 PM
Em-4 do custom dice, and also sell blanks. It could be worth contacting them about the possibility of having some done.

and Doug from em-4 is a LAF member, so he might be open to negotiated discount.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 20, 2013, 09:23:20 PM
Oh that's great!  Doug has great stuff, I was bummed that he doesnt carry the dice with the recessed faces.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: axabrax on November 21, 2013, 01:52:22 PM
Not everyone has the beta rules. What do the dice sheets look like? How many die symbols and dice per side are we talking?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 21, 2013, 02:07:27 PM
It's all on the thread Mate.  And it's a great read!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: axabrax on November 21, 2013, 09:34:32 PM
If someone sends me the dice sheet, I'll have some made by Chessex, and you can all ooh and ahh at the possibilities  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2013, 11:09:02 PM
I've had several custom chessex dice made...and while very tempting, at $3.75+ per dice, and needing around 20-24...that's far too much money.   :?

They do great work though, and I do believe a big group buy would be worthwhile from one of the companies who's willing to do custom dice. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on November 21, 2013, 11:22:01 PM
With all the rule writing being done, I rarely get to show anything I've been doing for my own ludus.  :'(

I have taken some pics of some WIP shots of some of the dropped weapon markers and some "spiked" palus.

The dropped weapon counters are not necessary to play, but add a nice touch. The game's actual counters can be put down on the grid to show dropped weapons etc which become trip hazards as well.

There is no historic evidence of spiked palus or palus in general appearing in the arena, but it wouldn't be a far stretch to imagine such things. The campaign rules include some "Special Events" which make use of such fantasies, adding a little spice to the matches. The palus act like hitting the wall and the spiked palus do the same, with the added chance of impaling your poor sod on those spikes.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_22_11_13_12_13_32.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_22_11_13_12_14_24.JPG)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Mason on November 21, 2013, 11:25:45 PM
Nice work, mate.
Like the idea of the Palus*.
 8)

And loving those markers.
Top quality!
 :-*




*I can see where this might lead.... ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on November 21, 2013, 11:36:19 PM




*I can see where this might lead.... ::)

No idea what you are talking about. ;) lol

Great stuff.

We have just completed our first nights campaign session. We all created a Ludus from scratch, went though all the phases up to and including the first match. Wages were placed and surprisingly James won his first fight earning him wealthy and me too for betting on him. Five more fights to go before the recuperation, training etc phases.

So far the campaign rules seem to be working fine.

Perhaps we need to create a Ludus sheet to record details of our ludus with wealth, influence, etc.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 21, 2013, 11:51:02 PM
Yeah, I won  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Watts on November 22, 2013, 04:54:32 AM
Great weapon markers, Furt. I am working on the exact same idea myself.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on November 22, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
Yeah, I won  :D

cheers

James

Yep, amazing isn't it... lol

But you did get poisoned though, very unsportsmanlike behaviour by Medicus Mortem... ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 22, 2013, 08:33:37 AM
Who does spare helmets, weapons etc for markers? Nice idea by the way
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on November 22, 2013, 09:37:43 AM
We have just completed our first nights campaign session. We all created a Ludus from scratch, went though all the phases up to and including the first match. Wages were placed and surprisingly James won his first fight earning him wealthy and me too for betting on him. Five more fights to go before the recuperation, training etc phases.

So far the campaign rules seem to be working fine.


Great to see the first campaign playtest being kicked off guys! Congrats James on your victory - I have heard about your brute with Strength 6!!  :o

Why didn't you try and poison the big one Mark?!?!?  ;D

Who does spare helmets, weapons etc for markers? Nice idea by the way

My shields and swords were from a defunct company unfortunately. I made my sica by bending a gladius (bloody genius I know).

I have quite a few Foundry spare bits and pieces. The trident was my last one although.

I got my helmets locally, but they were from http://maxmini.eu/gladiator%20-helmets-bits?search=gladiator

The helms would serve well as conversion bits too on Foundry or Crusader glads. But for now I only need them for fallen helmet markers.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on November 22, 2013, 09:40:05 AM

Why didn't you try and poison the big one Mark?!?!?  ;D



He was feeling charitable, it backfired on him though lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on November 22, 2013, 10:06:14 AM
He was feeling charitable, it backfired on him though lol

 lol - Mark obviously hasn't watched the Spartacus series. There is no room for niceties when running a ludus!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on November 22, 2013, 11:07:25 AM
Yeah, I won  :D

cheers

James

Don't believe it unless there's a victory photo...  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on November 22, 2013, 11:14:04 AM
Don't believe it unless there's a victory photo...  ;)

He looked a bit like this:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Mason on November 22, 2013, 11:15:58 AM
Yeah, I won  :D

Well done, mate.
Dont let them big boys bully you.
 ;)



Don't believe it unless there's a victory photo...  ;)

You DO NOT want to see Bibbles parading!
 :o :o :o

You have been warned!

He looked a bit like this:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_2.jpg)




TOO LATE!!!!


Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on November 22, 2013, 11:27:43 AM
He's at it again:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/14/86_07_09_13_7_00_24_0.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Mason on November 22, 2013, 11:28:41 AM
Stop it now.

You will frighten the children!

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on November 22, 2013, 12:20:15 PM
Aww. He does look happy though.

Nice counters too Furt.   :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Examples of Counters
Post by: axabrax on November 22, 2013, 03:11:00 PM
I wasn't suggesting that everyone should go out and buy the chessex dice. I was saying I will have some made and you can all ooh and ahhh at them. lol

In all seriousness, it would just be a reference point for those who can afford it. And then Chessex would also have the figures on file for people who want to buy them there. I understand this isn't a viable option for everyone.

I'm actually more concerned about the counters than the dice. Just printing counters out on thick card isn't good enough to make something you can actually pick up easily.

I've had several custom chessex dice made...and while very tempting, at $3.75+ per dice, and needing around 20-24...that's far too much money.   :?

They do great work though, and I do believe a big group buy would be worthwhile from one of the companies who's willing to do custom dice.  
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: H.M.Stanley on November 22, 2013, 05:18:04 PM
Dice. Martin at Warbases?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on November 22, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
I think for the UK going to EM4 might work out cheaper (shippage and stuff). That's if they can do them in the first place though.  ::)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 22, 2013, 07:24:37 PM
He looked a bit like this:

But more crippled and dishevelled  :(

The campaign looks to be very promising it the only thing wrong I can see is the length of time between campaign turns with the amount of matches that need to be played but well see how it goes.

Maybe lanista will be a bit more careful with their gladiators and give up quicker instead of fighting to the death (Mark certainly seemed to...).

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on November 22, 2013, 10:32:55 PM
I will look into the dice dilemma I promise - they are not much use without rules though.  ;)

I totally agree about the counters. But the cost of die cut printing on card stock will not be cheap.  :(

The campaign looks to be very promising it the only thing wrong I can see is the length of time between campaign turns with the amount of matches that need to be played but well see how it goes.

The amount of players in the campaign will certainly determine the length of each "turn". If time is tight it is really up to the players how many matches they squeeze into a night, as long as everyone gets a fair go. Ideally two matches go on at the same time, but in a 3 player campaign that's a little hard.  :)

Maybe lanista will be a bit more careful with their gladiators and give up quicker instead of fighting to the death (Mark certainly seemed to...).

Ideally, what Mark did was smart. You don't want your gladiator getting too seriously wounded (especially in a fight you assume he can not win), or killed and as long as he stands a good chance of being granted missio the best bet is to surrender. Also keeping a gladiator as unwounded as possible so he stands a good chance of fighting next turn is also important.

Some tactics should start to develop in the match planning phase, trying to deny opposing lanista the chance to use their good gladiators, while putting forward their own better gladiators.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 22, 2013, 11:38:21 PM
Yes, I think as we've been playing just normal bouts without really giving a fig for the long term some of the matches have been overly long. Hopefully I feel that this will change with the new game play  :)

Love the little additions you've got there Frank, we'll have to get some of our own done  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: NickNascati on November 23, 2013, 01:30:20 AM
The old Milton Bradley  "Lionheart" game had unique dice that were used for that game, they were nice sized and indented.  You can probably still buy the dice from Milton Bradley directly, for not much money, they don't realize that gamers use them.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Captain Blood on November 23, 2013, 09:15:06 AM
James WON a bout?  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  o_o

Impossible!

;)

Frank, I think your spiked palus look brilliant. Great addition to the game  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: NurgleHH on November 24, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
James WON a bout?  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  o_o

Impossible!

;)

Frank, I think your spiked palus look brilliant. Great addition to the game  :)
Richard, don't make Jokes about James. Or Germanicus will come again to the British Arena.... :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Humboldt on December 01, 2013, 05:48:00 PM
It is my first post here and I need to admit that I fall in love. I always want to enter this charming and somehow miraculously tabletop world but never found the entrance (no partner, to big armies, money et cetera). I'm a scholar of ancient history and stumbled a couple of weeks ago over a nice paper about gladiators and after a google research I land on your blog and on this forum. And from the point I see all of those pictures (such wonderful painted miniatures, lads - I guess I will never be able to do it by myself) and your game here I decided to enter this arena, so to speak. Thankfully I already found a retailer who offers Crusader Miniatures (not that easy), so I guess this will be a good start.

I already read that you are working on single player rules Furt which is somethin realy good for me because I'm not quite sure that I'm able to convince my girlfriend to play with me. But may I asked some other questions? At some point will be there some rules for equites? Maybe a little bit tricky because of the different dynamic of the battle but a nice addition fot the opening of the games nonetheless. Another question I have in mind is how bloody or more specifically deadly will 'Blood on the Sands' will be related in terms of realism and gameflow (maybe a balancing act). Also, will there be some campaign (and experience) rules? Just curious.

Sorry for my English. Keep up the wonderful work!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 01, 2013, 11:02:39 PM
It is my first post here and I need to admit that I fall in love. I always want to enter this charming and somehow miraculously tabletop world but never found the entrance (no partner, to big armies, money et cetera). I'm a scholar of ancient history and stumbled a couple of weeks ago over a nice paper about gladiators and after a google research I land on your blog and on this forum. And from the point I see all of those pictures (such wonderful painted miniatures, lads - I guess I will never be able to do it by myself) and your game here I decided to enter this arena, so to speak. Thankfully I already found a retailer who offers Crusader Miniatures (not that easy), so I guess this will be a good start.

Welcome Humboldt to LAF, a most amazing place! Don't doubt your own ability to get some gaming going, especially after seeing all of the inspiration here. Gladiators is a great way to start, needing so few figures.

I already read that you are working on single player rules Furt which is somethin realy good for me because I'm not quite sure that I'm able to convince my girlfriend to play with me. But may I asked some other questions? At some point will be there some rules for equites? Maybe a little bit tricky because of the different dynamic of the battle but a nice addition fot the opening of the games nonetheless. Another question I have in mind is how bloody or more specifically deadly will 'Blood on the Sands' will be related in terms of realism and gameflow (maybe a balancing act). Also, will there be some campaign (and experience) rules? Just curious.

I have contemplated single player rules for Blood on the Sands often and I've been working on rules for beasts in the arena that may transfer across to gladiators as well. I'm sure you could convince your girlfriend to fight you in the arena.  ;)

From what I have heard of equites they actually entered the arena mounted and then dismounted to fight on foot. They would not be a far stretch to simulate this, but mounted combat could be tricky.  :?

BotS can be deadly, but in my own experiences most gladiators will survive their match and live to fight another day, as long as he can sway the crowd. I have only had a single gladiator killed instantly in the arena, but the majority of matches involve the losing gladiator asking for missio.

There are campaign rules being playtested at the moment.

Thanks for the interest and again, welcome to LAF.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Humboldt on December 01, 2013, 11:28:46 PM
Thank you for the warm welcome and your reply, mate! Not quite certain about my girlfriend but I'm sure I could have fun in any case. :)

Mounted combat and maybe the transition dynamics could be indeed tricky. I was just curious because crusader miniatures offers some equites and I thought about buying it at some point. But best news at this point is that you working and testing campaign rules. I've made up my mind yesterday about some dealings like the different career stages (maybe pre-prime, prime, post-prime, end and retirement coupled on the number of fights and therefore also experience (and maybe popularity)) et cetera. It is really fun to plan things and details like that.

By the way I realy enjoy reading both your blog and this thread. So many interesting input, it is amazing.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: alrith72 on December 02, 2013, 09:09:13 AM
Hi Furt, what are the chances of these being ready before Christmas as the wife needs something to buy me  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 04, 2013, 07:46:38 PM
Hi Furt, what are the chances of these being ready before Christmas as the wife needs something to buy me  ;)

Nil, unfortunately.  :-[

The campaign rules still need work and play testing. I am trying gents...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Humboldt on December 04, 2013, 08:40:10 PM
The campaign rules still need work and play testing. I am trying gents...

As I'm pretty new and quite unfamiliar in the tabletop word I'd like to ask you what kind of aspects your campaign rules cover?

On a side note, I'm really pumped up about your game and Gladiators atm. I spend the whole Monday in the university library, reading present literature. Also I order nearly all available Gladiators from Crusaders (Murmillones & Crupellarius, Secutores & Scissor, Retarii & Laqueaius, Thraeces & Hoplomachii, Provocatores & Dimachaeri and the Officials), so I will be ready to spread some blood on the sand. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 04, 2013, 09:24:02 PM
As I'm pretty new and quite unfamiliar in the tabletop word I'd like to ask you what kind of aspects your campaign rules cover?


The campaign rules have the players (lanistae) and their ludi competing against eachother to become the most influential for the gladiatorial game year (between 6-12 game turns). Each lanista must maintain a stable of gladiators from the differing armaturae to insure a good selection of matches. Gladiators improve through training and success in the arena, but may also be killed (obviously), become wounded or have their attributes reduced through serious injury. Lanista spend their wealth on assets (like a larger domus, ludus etc or talented doctor or medicus) and in buying new slaves or even trained gladiators.
The bulk of the campaign game is the arrangement of matches (libellus gladiatorum) and fighting them. Some subtle tactics can develop when choosing the pairings, to deny an opponent for example, the use of his better gladiators. Their are some "special events" that include fights to the death (sine missione), two gladiators against one veteran (suppositicius), obstacles being placed in the arena, gladiator against beast and possibly a free for all combat.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Humboldt on December 04, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Frank. Sounds splendid. I really like the concept. Particularly the possible longevity! Definitely some rules I realy look for especially with the movement of the fights itself. A total package you are working on, mate. In theory, and for matchmaking aspects, how many schools are possible side by side?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 04, 2013, 10:16:55 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Frank. Sounds splendid. I really like the concept. Particularly the possible longevity! Definitely some rules I realy look for especially with the movement of the fights itself. A total package you are working on, mate. In theory, and for matchmaking aspects, how many schools are possible side by side?

Thank you Humboldt.  :)

Any number of players is possible, but of cause the more lanistae, the more matches, the more time required. Some matches can stretch out while others may end more quickly.

The campaign aspects do not take much time at all after run through them a few times.

I can only suggest if playing a campaign with 4 or more players to run some matches simultaneously on separate boards.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: alrith72 on December 04, 2013, 11:39:20 PM
Nil, unfortunately.  :-[

The campaign rules still need work and play testing. I am trying gents...

Not a massive problem here, will ask for cash instead  ;)

Just out of interest do you have a rough price in mind for this yet?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:45:29 PM
LOOOOOOONG overdue AAR's

This was my experience for 2 hours a week or so ago...  I kid you not.   I was simply too embarrassed to post these up.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:46:16 PM
Yup, all dressed up and no one to take me to the Dance...lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:54:54 PM
And today Za dropped by and we were able to get in two matches!

My Hoplomachus squared off with his Murmillo.  We both got lucky where my Gladiator had a 5 Skill and Za's had a 6 Strength.  The name of my game was not to be hit....

We had a GREAT time!  The rules were clear and after a practice play through we got in two good games and well, a Hoplomachus with a 5 skill and a spear is a DEADLY foe, especially one who has a compulsion to lop off the legs and arms of his opponents...  Yes, that happened both times.


This is how our second game ended....
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:55:54 PM
Some highlights!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:56:24 PM
More goodness!!! :)

The only hits I took in Match 1
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:57:09 PM
End of Game 1 >-:)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:57:57 PM
More!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:58:26 PM
More!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
More :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 03:59:22 PM
More!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 04:00:05 PM
I tried to take chronological shots, but I think you may have guessed that I've mixed up the order... :)

Za was a great opponent and I look forward to a rematch!

Cheers Furt for letting me playtest your wonderful game!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on December 07, 2013, 05:21:53 PM
I tried to take chronological shits,

Interesting...   :(

The games look great. Where did the mat come from?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: YPU on December 07, 2013, 05:25:29 PM
Pretty sure I am spotting some white chocolate pepernoten/kruidnoten there!

Looks like such a fun game! Lets hope that once all those end of the year festivities are gone I actually get to steal your luck in this game.  :D
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 05:36:30 PM
Interesting...   :(

The games look great. Where did the mat come from?

LOL!  Thanks for the catch!  In my defense the 'i' and the 'o' are right next to eachother! lol

The mat is the hotz deluxe gladiator mat in felt.  It's fantastic.  Totally worth the money, well made, easy to clean, easy to store and transport.  I forget exactly what I paid, but I want to say about $30.00.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 05:38:16 PM
Pretty sure I am spotting some white chocolate pepernoten/kruidnoten there!

Looks like such a fun game! Lets hope that once all those end of the year festivities are gone I actually get to steal your luck in this game.  :D

You betcha!  It'll have to be January at this point, next weekend is my last weekend before I visit my family for the holidays.  But I'll be back the first week of January, so we can set something up soon after if you're free.

it's a FANTASTIC game!  Great fun, great components and the randomness of the dice allocation system means you cant really 'game the game'.  We both had a blast!

We also played Outrider, so you should check out those shots too!
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 07, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
Hey Guys,
Ok I wanted to throw up the pictures asap, but now I have a few moments to describe the games.

I've manged to play it a couple of times, but it was the earlier version of the rules, which have not changed as much as became clearer, especially with the new QRS.

Game I: We started 10 spaces apart.
Za's Murmillio had advantage, and crossed the field.

Adv went to me, I did not have enough SPD to close, and neither of us thought to do more than move.

Za gets Adv again, engages and misses.  His Skl 3 vs my Skl 5 with spear was no match. 

He pushes until he runs out of Arena dice, but only 2 hits to the chest, 1 wound.

Adv goes to my Hoplomachus, who counter attacks and scores 3 hits to Za's left leg.

I run out of dice...

Round 2 runs not so differntly from Round 1,  which ends with my gladiator taking off Za's left leg at the joint. 

The masterful skill of the Hoplomachus was too much for the strong Murmillo... 

We were able to get a second match in, using the same gladiators.

The game was much more exciting the second time. I think at this point we both became more comfortable doing more than just basic attacks, and also began to understand how to manage the dice better.  This is key.

That said, we also decided not to play with any traits or favor, but to focus on the most basic rules, but next time I think we can add it all in.

All in all, we had a great time.  The game is easy to learn and as I wrote, the Arena dice add just enough randomness to keep the strategy high.


Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: fastolfrus on December 07, 2013, 11:13:44 PM
In my defense the 'i' and the 'o' are right next to eachother!

Worse on my keyboard, all the letters have worn off the first row apart from QYUP.
The only keys with markings on the next row are GJK...
So I just have to try and remember which ones to use (although I double check every time I finish a sentence)
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 08, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Worse on my keyboard, all the letters have worn off the first row apart from QYUP.
The only keys with markings on the next row are GJK...
So I just have to try and remember which ones to use (although I double check every time I finish a sentence)

May I suggest a new keyboard?? :D
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 08, 2013, 11:18:39 AM
Not sure if you guys noticed, but I laminated all of my sheets, that way they not only stay clean, but more importantly, we can use dry erase markers for some of the stuff.  I prefer dry erase when I can over counters, as I find too many become a bit fiddly.  But that's just a personal thing...  Counters, or markers, the playsheets were very easy to use, and I found quite thematic.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on December 09, 2013, 12:11:40 AM
Yep, a quality laminate is worth its weight in gold for games/sheets like this...whether you choose to use markers or not.  I'll definitely be laminating the final copy when I buy it.  It's not cheap (I spent about $25 just printing/laminating the testing stuff) but it's well worth it! 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 09, 2013, 12:29:14 AM
Very cool TBC!  :)

Glad you have found the rules easier to follow and pickup, and that strategies are forming during play.

One comment about the hex grid, being it's larger size. You may find the rules play differently again, in a more confined space.

In regards to laminated sheets, I use open sleeves, of hard plastic, bought at my local "Officeworks". The sleeves do a great job of protecting the playsheet and allow me to slip the armatura sheet into the pocket as well. I am now also accustomed to marking wounds (BUT wounds only) with a marker, through the bad influence of the playtesters on this thread, so laminating or sleeves has become essential.

Again thanks TBC.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 09, 2013, 12:47:17 AM
Yep, a quality laminate is worth its weight in gold for games/sheets like this...whether you choose to use markers or not.  I'll definitely be laminating the final copy when I buy it.  It's not cheap (I spent about $25 just printing/laminating the testing stuff) but it's well worth it! 

My lamenator was a 20 euro special from Staples.  Literally the cheapest one they sell. I figure I laminate maybe 20 sheets every so often so why spend more?  even if this one craps out, it's 20 euro for a new one! :)

But I totally agree, lamentaor is the way to go!
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 09, 2013, 12:48:13 AM
Very cool TBC!  :)

Glad you have found the rules easier to follow and pickup, and that strategies are forming during play.

One comment about the hex grid, being it's larger size. You may find the rules play differently again, in a more confined space.

In regards to laminated sheets, I use open sleeves, of hard plastic, bought at my local "Officeworks". The sleeves do a great job of protecting the playsheet and allow me to slip the armatura sheet into the pocket as well. I am now also accustomed to marking wounds (BUT wounds only) with a marker, through the bad influence of the playtesters on this thread, so laminating or sleeves has become essential.

Again thanks TBC.

It was totally my pleasure! 

I agree, I think if we played the match in my box arena, 10 squares across, would also have been a different game.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 11, 2013, 09:13:44 PM
For those of us that are playtesters, I think that BotS could work well over the net, we could just run dual setups.  Anyone interested (Furt?) in giving Furt's campaign rules a go?

Very interesting stuff Mate!  We could work out timezones, logistics, etc
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 11, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
For those of us that are playtesters, I think that BotS could work well over the net, we could just run dual setups.  Anyone interested (Furt?) in giving Furt's campaign rules a go?

Intriguing idea - interested of course, but how would the matches be played exactly?

I envision three weeks to finish a match!?!?!  :o
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: NurgleHH on December 11, 2013, 09:31:51 PM
Intriguing idea - interested of course, but how would the matches be played exactly?

I envision three weeks to finish a match!?!?!  :o
You can use skype and it will be over in shorter time...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 11, 2013, 09:36:42 PM
We're finally playing the continuation of our campaign tomorrow so I'm sure Nick will post results, tales etc  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Za Zjurman on December 11, 2013, 09:38:20 PM
I really enjoyed both matches I played with TBC last weekend, even if it cost me an arm and a leg  lol. Easy rules to pick up and they had a "natural" feel to it. I will certainly play it more often. I demand a rematch TBC  >:(  ;)

Cheers,

Za
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on December 11, 2013, 09:39:29 PM
We're finally playing the continuation of our campaign tomorrow so I'm sure Nick will post results, tales etc  :)

Pictures of James with his thumbs up...  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 11, 2013, 09:41:14 PM
Pictures of James with his thumbs up...  ;)

With any luck  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on December 11, 2013, 10:12:59 PM
With any luck  :D

cheers

James

 lol

No chance lol
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 11, 2013, 10:31:34 PM
Intriguing idea - interested of course, but how would the matches be played exactly?

I envision three weeks to finish a match!?!?!  :o

Exactly, Skype!  It's free, and each person can run a setuo so both players can track the game.  Maybe just say the arena dice of the other player is enough for that side.

Just spitballing some ideas :)

Za, Ludus Ericus awaits the rematch!  My Hoplomachus' spear is ready for some game!  I'd also like to give my Threax some arena time.... :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 12, 2013, 12:04:05 AM
I'm assuming that your talking web cams as well?

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 12, 2013, 03:46:04 AM
I'm assuming that your talking web cams as well?


Now that would be interesting, as I only ever play BotS in my subligaculum.  ;)

I actually don't Skype and don't own a webcam.  

I really enjoyed both matches I played with TBC last weekend, even if it cost me an arm and a leg  lol. Easy rules to pick up and they had a "natural" feel to it. I will certainly play it more often. I demand a rematch TBC  >:(  ;)


It's nice to hear that even in defeat you enjoyed the matches Za - I know the feeling, believe me, as I've won only a few of the matches I've ever played.  :-[
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on December 12, 2013, 05:22:06 AM
I have Skype and a webcam...I don't see why you couldn't rig this up to work quite well - just make sure each player has a measured out table/arena of the same size (using a chessex mat and a marker I could "copy" my opponent's arena floor quite easily).

Just find a way to mount the webcam aiming down at the arena...problem solved. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 12, 2013, 05:37:22 AM
I have Skype and a webcam...I don't see why you couldn't rig this up to work quite well - just make sure each player has a measured out table/arena of the same size (using a chessex mat and a marker I could "copy" my opponent's arena floor quite easily).


It looks like between Elbows and TBC, we could have our first online game of BotS. Now if you could only televise it...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on December 12, 2013, 09:59:03 PM
Well, then of course we'd need commercial endorsements...

"This primus brought to you by Doritus Chippus and the oracles of Mount Deux..."
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 12, 2013, 11:09:32 PM
To the victor, the spoils  :D

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/E4BE3263-EA23-448C-B0E1-1732C5501B42_zpsuptmq1kr.jpg)

Although it was a bit touch and go to begin with  :o

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/5D65CCA0-7D16-4B1E-9191-B1FF4D4A6153_zps7pwbnkdb.jpg)

Not Nicks best night really  lol

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk138/jimbibbly/Gladiators/Games/BDD6C7C0-5D77-441D-A583-F255DCB944FE_zpsd2i3e5ji.jpg)

Rather naff dice rolling and somewhat dubious advice from his doctorae meant Nick's gladiators went home in horse drawn ambulances  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on December 12, 2013, 11:36:54 PM
He's right you kow. My strength two Net pansy is now resting in  the graveyard of Galdiators after failing to entertain the crowd against Marks Secutor.

 Then my distinctly average Hoplomachus put up a spirited fight agaisnts Jame's Myrmillo with a prowess of four and strength six  :o :o  :o But ended up exhausted and begged for Missio which was granted he had managed to wound the Myrmillo on several occasions.

Not the best of nights for the Ludus of Malamutius Calvus.  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 13, 2013, 12:53:45 AM
He's right you kow. My strength two Net pansy is now resting in  the graveyard of Galdiators after failing to entertain the crowd against Marks Secutor.

It really is the best place for net pansies to end up Nick.  :'(

Then my distinctly average Hoplomachus put up a spirited fight agaisnts Jame's Myrmillo with a prowess of four and strength six  :o :o  :o But ended up exhausted and begged for Missio which was granted he had managed to wound the Myrmillo on several occasions.

At least he survived his match against James' brute, which is a victory of its own.

I once rolled 6 Skulls and 2 Feet, so I think my roll wins on the poor stakes. Loving the thumbs up BTW guys.  :)

I'm thinking the campaign round is taking longer than planned?  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 13, 2013, 06:37:24 AM
I'm thinking the campaign round is taking longer than planned?  :?

Only because of the space between matches, also, the chaps were a bit late last night so we only played for just over two hours but got two matches in.

I think it could be possible to play the entire mundus in one solid days gaming.

I'm really liking the gambling rules as well  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 13, 2013, 08:39:12 AM
Only because of the space between matches, also, the chaps were a bit late last night so we only played for just over two hours but got two matches in.

I think it could be possible to play the entire mundus in one solid days gaming.

I'm really liking the gambling rules as well  :D

cheers

James

I agree with Jim, the entire 'season' could be marathoned, or the subject of a weekly/ bi-weekly matchup for a club
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 13, 2013, 08:39:48 AM
Oh, and to help my P&P game set up time, I just bought an A4 papercutter from Staples..25 euro, but I see tons of uses....
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 13, 2013, 09:49:44 AM
Only because of the space between matches, also, the chaps were a bit late last night so we only played for just over two hours but got two matches in.

I think it could be possible to play the entire mundus in one solid days gaming.

When we play our two player campaign we game between 3-4 hours and complete an entire campaign turn from start to finish quite easily. Warranted we only have four matches to fight each turn.

I'm really liking the gambling rules as well  :D

Glad to hear that James - I can envision the ludus of Bibulus the Flos just overflowing with sestertii.  :o

I agree with Jim, the entire 'season' could be marathoned, or the subject of a weekly/ bi-weekly matchup for a club

I do fear TBC that the more players (lanistae) present the longer each campaign turn will stretch out. Running multiple matches simultaneously becomes a must.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 13, 2013, 10:47:48 AM
For anyone interested I've added the results of Turn 1 of our own 2-player campaign.

It shows all the gladiators of the Houses of Sultanus Saturninus (Me) and Crumpus Maximus (my good friend Dave).

Along with keeping the normal BotS sheets, I also record the results in a spreadsheet (because I do love a good spreadsheet).

Crumpus Maximus was truly blessed by the Gods and has a ludus full of arena stars, such as Remus Maximus a "Large" murmillo with Strength 6; Sinistarus the secutor, a skilled scaeva (left-hander) dubbed the "Retiarius Hunter" after killing my poor "net pansy" Flavius; and Tuditanus, a "Large" Strength 5 Briton who has yet to even finish his ludus training but already looks to be a champion.

The House of Sultanus Saturninus  on the other hand is filled with mediocrity. All my hopes hinge on Dipiatus the Spaniard, a provocator who  managed to win his first match and as a result improved his Skill during training.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_13_12_13_11_45_49.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1650_13_12_13_11_40_31.gif)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Eric the Shed on December 13, 2013, 01:38:35 PM
Both Jim & Mark seem very happy with themselves so I take it that Nick must have lost both fights...

Mark - new beard ? it needs to be bit longer for the Santa outfit

Please shout if you ever need another player...

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr DeAth on December 13, 2013, 07:35:16 PM
Mark - new beard ? it needs to be bit longer for the Santa outfit


Kind of, Movember turned into Beardcember which may roll over into Cantbearsedtoshaveanuary.

I don't use the Santa outfit any more, it's not that I don't want to, more a case of the Judge saying that I can't.

And yes, Nick lost both fights  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Humboldt on December 14, 2013, 07:31:01 PM
Finally received my "equipment" to run my own ludus. So happy I've to share a picture of the popular fixture retiarius vs. secutor plus the summa and secunda rudis:

(http://i.imgur.com/8GtG7XF.jpg)

On a side note: Frank, do you received my PM?  :)



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 14, 2013, 08:40:46 PM
On a side note: Frank, do you received my PM?  :)


I sure did and replied on the 9th of December - check your PM mate.  :)

I think the Spartacus board makes a great arena, considering there is no work required!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on December 20, 2013, 02:09:12 AM
My brother and I started a small two-person campaign last night.  We were both tired so I've yet to properly assemble the names and such.  We played two quick rounds of our first tournament.

My Hoplomachus defeated his Thraex by severely crippling his shield arm (after forcing him to drop it).  He asked for missio and it was granted.

The next game, my brother's Hoplomachus (who rolled up a really stellar character) was fighting my Myrmillo (nicknamed "Mediocrates" for his...mediocrity...).  After two turns of constant back and forth counters and slashing my brother gambled on a powerful "killing blow" and boy did he.  He managed to spear my Myrmillo straight through his head, piercing his skull and killing him instantly.

The next two games will be played later - the next one was rolled up as Sine Missione...so that'll be interesting.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 21, 2013, 07:30:33 AM
My brother and I started a small two-person campaign last night.  We were both tired so I've yet to properly assemble the names and such.  We played two quick rounds of our first tournament.


Cool - I'd be real interested in seeing the line up. We played our second campaign turn a couple of nights ago, but it's been so hot here I haven't been bothered to write anything up.  :(

My Hoplomachus defeated his Thraex by severely crippling his shield arm (after forcing him to drop it).  He asked for missio and it was granted.

The next game, my brother's Hoplomachus (who rolled up a really stellar character) was fighting my Myrmillo (nicknamed "Mediocrates" for his...mediocrity...).  After two turns of constant back and forth counters and slashing my brother gambled on a powerful "killing blow" and boy did he.  He managed to spear my Myrmillo straight through his head, piercing his skull and killing him instantly.

Sounds like two very interesting matches. You know we have still not managed to pull off a successful "Killing blow" - so jealous. We had a match where a Provocator's scutum was destroyed, but he still managed to win the bout.

The next two games will be played later - the next one was rolled up as Sine Missione...so that'll be interesting.


Bet the gladiators are both dieing to fight that one.  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on December 21, 2013, 04:11:35 PM
Yeah, I think we bent the rules a little bit, as the Hoplomachus was rolled up incredibly good (Strength 4, Speed 5...Prowess 4...a beast) - and he faced a normal "3's" Myrmillo of mine.  He rolled a killing blow using my skulls, his laurels, and he managed to roll one six.  He rolled close enough to direct the blow to the head, and then rolled 5 wounds directly to the head...4 of which were bleeding.  The kill actually came from the one stumble result --- piercing the skull.  Either way that poor Myrmillo was hosed from the get go... lol

The crowd enjoyed it, but it was only a three turn game.  The first two turns were a constant back and forth of nonstop counters. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 31, 2013, 05:33:57 PM
I've finally managed to get a hex board made, two gladiators painted, dice ready to go, and everything printed off. I was missing some counters, and I couldn't find the playsheets I'd originally printed. Hoping get some blood on the sands in the next couple days...


(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/4060_30_12_13_10_16_35_0.jpg)



(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/4060_30_12_13_10_16_35_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on December 31, 2013, 09:21:04 PM
Looking forward to your first game and thoughts Dr. Mathias. Your arena floor looks great with those barely visible hexes. And I'm loving that Secutor's shield.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 01, 2014, 03:58:40 AM
Now those are some pretty pics... :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on January 01, 2014, 02:59:30 PM
Great stuff, hope you enjoy the game. :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: AJG on January 02, 2014, 06:43:04 PM
These rules look very nice. I am looking forward to when I can buy this.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: zbyshko on January 02, 2014, 07:53:49 PM
I am intrigued by these rules to see how they stack against Arena Games.

The figures are ready and an arena set for them...if i remember where i put it.  :-I
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 03, 2014, 06:51:38 AM
Two totally different games...we discussed it a bit earlier.

BOTS is a very in depth game centered around single combat between two opponents (though some of us have taken license and attempted two pairs...).  It is very tactical, etc.  It's not the simplistic popcorn and pretzels game that Arena Games is.

Lots of people, just looking for a quick fix?  Arena Games.

Much more detailed, realistic single combat?  Blood on the Sands. 

The beauty - as you mentioned is that you can play any Gladiator rules set if you have the minis (and lucky for us most of the rule sets are based on hex movement).  I have several Gladiator rules and was looking to make my own when I started playtesting Mr. Furt's product - and immediately changed my mind.  It's that good.  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on January 03, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
As always thanks Elbows.  :)

I have not played Arena Games, one of the few gladiator rules I have yet to try, but thankfully Elbows has and he has played Blood on the Sands enough to know the differences.

When I designed Blood on the Sands I wanted to break away from a mere beer and pretzel game and try to capture the actual flavour of a gladiator duel, taking into account the unique weaponry and armour.

I really feel there is a place for all these gladiator rules - they all bring different things to the table.



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: zbyshko on January 03, 2014, 06:09:57 PM
Furt & Elbows: thank you for the explanation and remarks.  My friend and I shall be trying our hand at Blood On the Sands soon, I should hope.  Please keep us posted on an ETA for a release so we can toss an arbitrary amount of cash at you for your efforts sir!  o_o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on January 03, 2014, 09:23:48 PM
Furt & Elbows: thank you for the explanation and remarks.  My friend and I shall be trying our hand at Blood On the Sands soon, I should hope.  Please keep us posted on an ETA for a release so we can toss an arbitrary amount of cash at you for your efforts sir!  o_o

Will do zbyshko. Thanks for your support.  :)
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 03, 2014, 11:43:03 PM
As always thanks Elbows.  :)

I have not played Arena Games, one of the few gladiator rules I have yet to try, but thankfully Elbows has and he has played Blood on the Sands enough to know the differences.

When I designed Blood on the Sands I wanted to break away from a mere beer and pretzel game and try to capture the actual flavour of a gladiator duel, taking into account the unique weaponry and armour.

I really feel there is a place for all these gladiator rules - they all bring different things to the table.





So far yours are my clear favorite!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 04, 2014, 12:18:13 AM
I've played Blood on the Sands, Arena Games, some ghastly Two Hour Wargames one (Red Earth, Blue sky? - a super dry "nothing but charts" nonsense game), and I've read through Munera Sine Missione (an adaptation of an earlier rules set).  I played one other one, Viktus I believe? 

Of the bunch I've only enjoyed or found benefit in Arena Games (good party fun, we play it when we have 5-6 people and everyone grabs a gladiator at random and we play a free-for-all) and Blood on the Sands.

A beauty of Blood on the Sands is that the core rules are so excellent that (as I've done frequently...) you can adapt other things to the game without much problem.  You'll never want to run a huge melee battle with the rules, but we've successfully played pairs vs. pairs, and we'll be playtesting animals soon, and I've even built a Pontus to try some ad hoc games of "Single Retiriarius vs. two Secutors" etc.).

I might try to play a game via Skype with one of the English guys on this forum...and I'd be curious to see if we've both been playing it similarly (the biggest test of a set of rules...if two people reading them solo come to the same conclusions about how the game is played!).  Many of us have been providing a lot of feedback to Furt and each rendition of the rules is tighter and better - not that the first was bad to start with!

Due to the single combat nature of the game you could definitely play a fight on hexes measured on a single piece of paper (I just had the idea that someone should produce a small MDF sheet with hexes and a carry handle on the side!  lol).  It's a little paper-intensive with cheat sheets etc., but it would make a very very easy travel game.  Something you could set up on a coffee table in a hotel room.  I think Mr. Furt is doing this right by taking his time.  My own gaming project has become difficult as I released all of my components while I'm still polishing up the final rules (something I won't do my next game...).  While people might be chomping at the bit, I think the end result product you'll get will be 110% of your expectations, and I think it's mostly due to Mr. Furt taking his time and making sure it's good enough to release before doing so.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 14, 2014, 08:05:19 PM
I have two sheets of adhesive labels with the BotS arena dice symbols printed on them. They're a little off register though, so one edge of the symbol is barely crossing the die cut. They are perfectly serviceable. Each sheet will do 26 dice. They're sized to fit these dice (also where I obtained the labels):

http://indentedblankdice.com/

I'll send a sheet to the first two people in the USA that could use them- I don't plan to make more dice and don't want to throw the labels in the trash.

PM your address and I'll get 'em to you.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 14, 2014, 11:00:50 PM
Mathias,

Did you order dice from them?  I order their dice via Gamecrafter, but I wanted to order direct - the site just looks really shady (no contact info, no genuine webpage, etc.).  Are they legitimate?

They only have links to really old articles about them gearing up for business etc.  They good to go?

PS: pending Mr. Furts permission I can post a link to dice stickers for those same dice that I did up back when I started play-testing.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 14, 2014, 11:57:28 PM
Yes, I did. No problems, shipped fast.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 15, 2014, 01:03:04 AM
Hmmm, great to know.  I really wanted some of the obscure colours I can't find on other sites.  Excellent, thanks!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on January 22, 2014, 08:23:38 AM
PS: pending Mr. Furts permission I can post a link to dice stickers for those same dice that I did up back when I started play-testing.

I think for the moment Elbows I'd rather keep the "official" BotS dice in circulation until I figure out how to tackle the whole dice thing. But as always thanks for your help mate.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 22, 2014, 09:40:16 AM
Yep, no worries.  I just don't want to come off as someone jealously guarding my own fancy stickers!  lol  Any chance you could fund a large order of custom chessex dice or something similar?

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on January 22, 2014, 10:42:27 PM
Yep, no worries.  I just don't want to come off as someone jealously guarding my own fancy stickers!  lol  Any chance you could fund a large order of custom chessex dice or something similar?

That could definitely be an option after the rules are released.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 23, 2014, 10:25:16 AM
The dice that Furt suggested in his instructions worked great for me, came in a bunch of colors and have a nice size to them.  I also like the recessed face.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 23, 2014, 11:47:16 AM
Yep, I'm using the same.  Actually about to order a whole new set (going to geek out a bit on my BOTS dice and make four colour matched sets with matched D6's and bags...)  lol

I actually have loads of the indented dice and have used them for several gaming projects already (now that I think of it, I must have 100 of the damn things...and more on the way!) :D
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 28, 2014, 10:18:44 AM
Next scheduled game this weekend!  AAR to follow!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2014, 07:20:48 PM
I was supposed to have the next chapter in my campaign, but my brother bailed on me...twice in one weekend!  So, who knows.  I do have a bunch of new colour-matched BOTS dice and D6's coming in the mail though, so that's exciting.  lol
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: YPU on January 28, 2014, 08:24:43 PM
Next scheduled game this weekend!  AAR to follow!
Don't jinx it  :o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: YPU on February 03, 2014, 10:22:54 AM
I think TBC is still writing up the AAR, but sufficed to say I got slaughtered in both matched we did. The man rolled a 5 AND a 6 on his gladiator while I never got above 3. Still there were a few times I threw everything into a single desperate attack and for a moment it looked like I could have had him. Anyhow, details to come in the AAR, with a few pictures.

I must say this is the first one on one combat game I have read, and played, that feels right. Any hit can be lethal and random enough to keep you on your toes, yet at the same time there is enough control and choice that it always feels like "your fault" when you fail.

The arena did feel rather large and empty. I know there has been some discussion as to "terrain" but I would be very much in favour.

Lastly a question. If a gladiator is left handed, Scaeva, how does this effect his equipment and the hit location table? I would imagine him standing exactly mirrored to the normal table, but that would put the regular layout of armor on the wrong side. Does that then switch around as well, or would the rules of the arena not allow this. I'm curious to the historical president on this.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 03, 2014, 11:50:43 AM
I think TBC is still writing up the AAR, but sufficed to say I got slaughtered in both matched we did. The man rolled a 5 AND a 6 on his gladiator while I never got above 3. Still there were a few times I threw everything into a single desperate attack and for a moment it looked like I could have had him. Anyhow, details to come in the AAR, with a few pictures.

I must say this is the first one on one combat game I have read, and played, that feels right. Any hit can be lethal and random enough to keep you on your toes, yet at the same time there is enough control and choice that it always feels like "your fault" when you fail.

Looking forward to reading the AAR and I'm glad you liked BotS. I really like the description "your fault", as I often find myself fists clenched, cursing the fact I hadn't done that or this, after failing a certain tactic.

The arena did feel rather large and empty. I know there has been some discussion as to "terrain" but I would be very much in favour.

I do suggest a more compact arena that eliminates the need for "terrain". In the campaign game there is a chance to fight in an arena dotted with obstacles and fire pits, etc - unhistorical I'd say, but entertaining.

Lastly a question. If a gladiator is left handed, Scaeva, how does this effect his equipment and the hit location table? I would imagine him standing exactly mirrored to the normal table, but that would put the regular layout of armor on the wrong side. Does that then switch around as well, or would the rules of the arena not allow this. I'm curious to the historical president on this.

Yeah - this needs to be mentioned somewhere. Rules wise everything stays the same concerning hit location etc, we just assume that a scaeva gladiator puts his right arm/leg forward as opposed to his left.
Historically it was a big deal when a scaeva gladiator appeared, as such a combatant was advertised in the libellus gladiatorum. I can only assumed they allowed him to fight left handed, although I also assume the habit would have been quashed in the legions. In other words I have no idea.  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 03, 2014, 12:44:12 PM
We'll be starting our second turn soon after finishing the paper work for the first turn tomorrow  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2014, 07:54:11 PM
My brother bailed on me twice to resume our campaign...I did however get the new stickers for my new colour matched dice - so when the dice actually show up I'll post some pics.  I'm excited...yay dice!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 03, 2014, 08:03:37 PM
We'll be starting our second turn soon after finishing the paper work for the first turn tomorrow  :)


Looking forward to hearing the results of the first round and hoping for some devious events for the next turn.

My brother bailed on me twice to resume our campaign...I did however get the new stickers for my new colour matched dice - so when the dice actually show up I'll post some pics.  I'm excited...yay dice!  lol

Yay dice!! I love dice too. Can't wait to see how they come out.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 14, 2014, 04:33:05 AM
***Campaign***

Well (sadly no pictures, as my cell phone and my brother's dinner room lighting don't mix) we ran match three of our first four-match event this evening.  We were planning on running the other two.  This match featured Varro (super mediocre Retiarius) against Arix a giant, skilled Secutor (Skill and Speed of 4, so a Prowess of 4).  This match was pre-designated Sine Missione.

While I expected a brutal slaughter of my simple Varro, he managed to put up a fight for nearly six full turns.  Hastily throwing his net, finding himself fighting from the ground while pinned against a wall on several occasions, and while rolling Skulls EVERY DAMN TIME...the fight only ended when the retiarius tired himself out.  Around turn five Arix the secutor was completely in charge, and used a roll of SIX(!) feet...to respite himself, despite the booing from the crowd.  The desperate Varro was rolling three dice at this point, swords and skulls...exhausted.

Varrow was cut in the head, right arm, both legs, and his torso.  Finally he became spent, unable to stand against Arix.  Arix punched his gladius through the top of Varro's spine.  A fine showing for such an outclassed gladiator.

Next up...provocator vs. provocator...

(PS: Used some of my new dice, but not the full sets - I'll snap pics when the full sets are assembled)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 14, 2014, 04:34:33 AM
I owe you guys an AAR from last weekend, my Hoplomachus was a beast again!

I'll probably not get to it until I'm on holiday next week, but I do have pics as well :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 14, 2014, 08:28:17 AM
Sounds like an exciting match Elbows, which is good considering your poor fellow was just an Joe Average. I like how this plays out sometimes, where a clearly superior gladiator gets a run for his money by a gladiator that should be dispatched fairly straightforwardly.

Pity this was Sine Missione, it sounds like poor Varro really deserved to be spared.  :'(
 
I'm looking forward to seeing the Provocator match and especially hearing your thoughts on the end of the campaign turn.

I owe you guys an AAR from last weekend, my Hoplomachus was a beast again!

I'll probably not get to it until I'm on holiday next week, but I do have pics as well :D

Oh goody pictures!!  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 14, 2014, 04:33:50 PM
I played a very tense hour-and-a-half match between a Thraex and Murmillo a couple nights ago. Scutum dropped and retrieved, heroic stamina tests against bleeding wounds, sica sneaking past strong defenses, swords clanging on helmets, parading, respites, gladiators moving over the entire arena, cunning strikes... you name it. Ended with exhaustion on the part of my Murmillo, but he had a beautiful stack of crowd favor :)

Great rule set using only two figures!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 14, 2014, 08:22:58 PM
Furt...

Sadly I must admit that the Secutor suffered no wounds, so the Retiarius would have had a tough time making his favour roll.  He was simply fighting a heroic retreat the entire game.  More of a "tough to get through his trident" thing.  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 14, 2014, 09:46:32 PM
I thought I read somewhere that the general consensus 'back in the day' was that an average secutor would beat an average retiarius 8 out of 10 times, but an above average retiarius would beat an above average secutor 8 out of 10. Anyone recall reading that?

How have your retiarius/secutor matches gone? So far we are 2/0 in the favor of secutors.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 14, 2014, 10:17:37 PM
Only played one actually (with full command of the rules, I think we played one like our second game where we were still fumbling through stuff).  I confess we frequently forget to roll stumbles.

This match was obviously heavily in the Secutors favour.  I think I find in BOTS that the spear/trident are super effective because of their bonus to attack and defend, making the retiarius and hoplomachus very potent characters.  Once we finish our provocator fight we may set up a pontus match for fun - see what it takes to run one.  For a pontus match though we'll likely create a good retiarius (at least Prowess 4) against two mediocre secutors.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 14, 2014, 11:26:58 PM
I played a very tense hour-and-a-half match between a Thraex and Murmillo a couple nights ago. Scutum dropped and retrieved, heroic stamina tests against bleeding wounds, sica sneaking past strong defenses, swords clanging on helmets, parading, respites, gladiators moving over the entire arena, cunning strikes... you name it. Ended with exhaustion on the part of my Murmillo, but he had a beautiful stack of crowd favor :)

Great rule set using only two figures!

I'm glad you had an entertaining match Dr. Mathias, no piccies I'm guessing.  :(

I do think the Murmillo and Thraex in particular are a nicely balanced pair - the Thraex's ability to hit more often, opposed by the Murmillo's large shield

I thought I read somewhere that the general consensus 'back in the day' was that an average secutor would beat an average retiarius 8 out of 10 times, but an above average retiarius would beat an above average secutor 8 out of 10. Anyone recall reading that?

How have your retiarius/secutor matches gone? So far we are 2/0 in the favor of secutors.

I actually only remember the 8 to 10 in the retiarius' favor, but you are probably right with the entire quote.

We have found the outcomes fairly balanced in our own games, but of late have had a spate of secutor victories too. I recall Malamute fearing the opposite in his own playtesting where a retiarius was dominating the arena, but then the tables turned again and the secutors had some victories. It of course depends on your man's quality as well, as Dr Mathias has pointed out.

I believe a good tactic for the retiarius is to get a solid bleeding strike in and then keep his distance by Retreating when attacked (with a nice bonus to Defense to boot), hopefully exhausting his opponent over time. A well thrown net at the end of a good series of Presses could also spell trouble for his opponent.

Only played one actually (with full command of the rules, I think we played one like our second game where we were still fumbling through stuff).  I confess we frequently forget to roll stumbles.

This match was obviously heavily in the Secutors favour.  I think I find in BOTS that the spear/trident are super effective because of their bonus to attack and defend, making the retiarius and hoplomachus very potent characters. 

I actually introduced the "Cunning Strike" attack action for Scutarii, because I was finding it hard land a hit on spear/trident wielding opponents. I can not recommend enough the tactic of breaking an opponent's spear/trident though, when the opportunity arises, and anyone who has suffered this tactic used against them, quickly realizes that these shafted weapons come with a considerable drawback; Pugios being less then ideal offensive weapons.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: axabrax on February 17, 2014, 04:09:20 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't actually have a play copy of the rules?  lol  How are they coming along? Any notion of a release time frame?

Steve
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on February 17, 2014, 05:18:04 PM
Nah, me neither Steve.

To be honest I'm enjoying soaking up everyone else's games at the moment.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 17, 2014, 08:33:03 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't actually have a play copy of the rules?  lol  How are they coming along? Any notion of a release time frame?

Steve

At this stage Steve I really can't add any more play testers to the list unfortunately.  :'(

I'm fairly confident the combat rules are pretty tight, having been tested thoroughly by many gamers. The campaign rules on the other hand are still in the process of play testing and are proving a little harder to test properly, because of the time involved.

I must admit, getting the rules into a polished, final draft is a BIG challenge, causing me considerable headaches and sleepless nights. Considering I am a one man team, with real life to interfere at every turn, it is not surprising really.

I continue to work on BotS at every opportunity, but as for a time frame, I can only say they will be ready when they are ready unfortunately.  :)

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 24, 2014, 10:23:31 PM
Well my dice project is about 90% complete.  I ordered some indented dice to match some Chessex dice I had on order.  I then made up some stickers via Gamecrafter and now have four complete sets of BOTS dice (I tend to play a lot of 2v2 games, and this way I can host two separate games at once for my buddies).  The last step is to order some small leather pouches for each set of dice.  I would have prefered some different colours but I went with what I could combine easily.  The black ones don't match too well, and that may be rectified in the future, but I'm happy with the lot of them.

Also picked up two "cupboard" trays at the local store which make nice, classy looking dice rolling bins.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2014-02-24_17-17-19_611_zpsd886cad2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2014-02-24_17-17-27_778_zps6471d60a.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2014-02-24_17-17-38_864_zps5feeee62.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/Gaming/2014-02-24_17-17-53_397_zpsf368f6e1.jpg)

PS: If anyone else in the US is playtesting and needs dice, let me know - my old ones are up for grabs - just a couple bucks plus shipping.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Malamute on February 25, 2014, 08:14:23 AM
They look great. The dice add real flavour to the game. ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Ray Earle on February 25, 2014, 09:28:27 AM
Nice.  :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Watts on February 25, 2014, 04:26:35 PM
Those look great! Thanks for pointing out Gamecrafter... I just ordered a set for myself.

We have still been playing BotS at our club here in Toronto, but I haven't had a chance to do any AARs for a while. Nevertheless, everyone who's played it had really good things to say and have been ordering models to paint. I am hoping to start a campaign soon and hopefully get some more AARs going again.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Elbows on February 25, 2014, 08:26:40 PM
Yeah this time I ordered my dice directly from the Indented Dice page, though they took a rather long time to ship them (I was about to email them complaining when they finally shipped them).  The stickers I just designed a while back...but took them this time and attempted to colour match them obviously.

I doubt I'll be using any Prowess 6 guys anytime soon so I probably could have gotten away with 8-10 dice per side, but why not go the full 12, just in case.  lol (don't ask how long it took to put stickers on 48 friggin' dice...)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Watts on February 25, 2014, 08:31:38 PM
I ordered 24 dice... not looking forward to that part.  o_o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Spiked Palus and Weapon Markers
Post by: Furt on February 26, 2014, 08:34:42 PM
I doubt I'll be using any Prowess 6 guys anytime soon so I probably could have gotten away with 8-10 dice per side, but why not go the full 12, just in case.  lol (don't ask how long it took to put stickers on 48 friggin' dice...)

 lol

They look really good Elbows. I like how you matched the dice colors with your normal d6 - cool.

I think you have more Arena Dice then me now!?!?!  :o

We played the third turn of our playtest campaign last night with many surprising upsets.

In one match, I lost my best gladiator, a provocator who was still fairly average, but had won both of his matches and earned 2 Fame. He was killed instantly with a very lucky (or unlucky on my behalf) single wound to the torso, that struck his heart; a result of a stumble result and the rolling of two consecutive "1"s.

In the primus match, my average Gaul, the  dull-witted thraex, "Pullos", faced the giant (Strength 6!!) "Remus Maximus", a superior murmillo from Judea. "Remus Maximus" became over confident with the thraex, having solidly wounded him very early in the match. He toyed with him next by disarming his sica, to the roar of the crowd, and then allowed the thraex to retrieve it again. Then everything changed. "Pullos" got in a lucky shot on the murmillo's shield arm, and had obviously hit an artery as the wound gushed blood. As a result "Remus Maximus" let slip the heavy scutum. "Pullos" forced the murmillo back away from the shield, risking everything. What followed then was a tense battle against time, as "Pullos" tried desperately to avoid being cut in half by his opponent, while the hulking murmillo fought back fatigue. "Remus Maximus" was forced to take many reprieves, to the disdain of the crowd. "Pullo" finally sealed the match by delivering another small bleeding wound, straight after nearly coming to grief himself. The murmillo had struck him a solid blow that would have forced his surrender, but fortunately the strike was soaked by the thraex's manica. INTENSE. The giant, "Remus Maximus", finally collapsed to the sand, exhausted and bleeding profusely. To add injury to insult, his lanista had backed 1000 sestercii on his victory! "Pullos" the underdog had won!!

Next munus involves a suppositicius match, involving my opponent's freshly made dimachaerus vs two of my own gladiators, one straight after another.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on February 27, 2014, 01:26:39 AM
What follows are the results of our last two campaign turn playtests.

Gladiator deaths, victories and overall Influence is fairly even.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/1650_27_02_14_2_21_45.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/1650_27_02_14_2_20_22.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/1650_27_02_14_2_22_21.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/1650_27_02_14_2_21_11.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on February 27, 2014, 04:47:55 AM
Our first event had four pairs...it's been three months and we've only done three pairs!   lol  Granted my brother rarely has time now - he's in the process of moving and I'm taking some classes, but at some point I may get to play some more.  Maybe steal a game this weekend.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on February 27, 2014, 10:47:30 AM
Great stuff Frank. Its good to hear I am not the only one who suffers defeats of gargantuan proportions ;) lol

We have eased off a bit with the campaign over the last few weeks. Busy preparing for Salute 2014 in April where we will be hosting a big Mars VSF game. Lots of painting/converting to do in the meantime which has sapped up our gaming evenings.

We'll get back into the campaign after Salute. :)
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 16, 2014, 06:26:35 PM
Just had another couple of games of BoTS today at the new gaming club that started in Amsterdam last month!  I didnt take any pics, and have been remiss in not posting my last AAR but I've been playing!

My opponent today was bitterly complaining about my Hoplomachus's spear...until he broke it the next round and went on to exhaust my poor champion!

I've been having some great fun with this and now that there is a regular club every month, I'll give the campaign rules a go.  The game really does have a ''wow' factor!  People kept wandering over to look at the playmats, minis and counters.  It's such a nice presentation itself it just ropes people in.  So I dont see any problem finding regular opponents.  I also reread the rules with an eye to send Furt corrections, and I must commend your editor (yourself I assume) the game is VERY polished now inside.

Anyhoo, I wanted to let my fellow LAF'ers know what Ive been up to! :D
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on March 19, 2014, 03:18:12 AM
I've been having some great fun with this and now that there is a regular club every month, I'll give the campaign rules a go.  The game really does have a ''wow' factor!  People kept wandering over to look at the playmats, minis and counters.  It's such a nice presentation itself it just ropes people in.  So I dont see any problem finding regular opponents.  I also reread the rules with an eye to send Furt corrections, and I must commend your editor (yourself I assume) the game is VERY polished now inside.

Good to hear TBC. I had a similar experience at a local gaming store where I had a small crowd around cheering on the two combatants, and in that particular game there wasn't even that much action, as both the players were newbies.

The editor (yes me) is still having serious troubles completing a final rulebook. I am really quite stuck and in a bit of a rut.  :'(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on March 19, 2014, 03:19:53 AM
I feel your pain Furt.

I've been out of the BOTS loop for a bit.  Brother is moving, I'm taking classes and my brother had a couple weeks training in another city.  A couple weeks of papers and homework and maybe I can get rollin' again.  I haven't gamed anything since the last con I attended in January!  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on March 19, 2014, 03:29:24 AM
I feel your pain Furt.

I know you understand Elbows, having developed your own project.

I've been out of the BOTS loop for a bit.  Brother is moving, I'm taking classes and my brother had a couple weeks training in another city.  A couple weeks of papers and homework and maybe I can get rollin' again.  I haven't gamed anything since the last con I attended in January!  :?

I am managing a semi-regular campaign game and completed the third round recently - which I have been slack in posting up the results. I hope you can have a game soon mate.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on March 20, 2014, 09:14:50 AM


The editor (yes me) is still having serious troubles completing a final rulebook. I am really quite stuck and in a bit of a rut.  :'(

 :(

How so? Why do you feel you are stuck in a rut?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on March 20, 2014, 09:51:11 AM
:(

How so? Why do you feel you are stuck in a rut?

Thanks for you concern Nick.  :)

The completion of the rulebook has dragged on for quite some time now and I can't quite seem to get over a few hurdles to get on and finish the project.

As I've said before I do feel the rules are fully playable and complete, but a polished and presentable rulebook is something I'm still struggling with.

I do admit it is a big task to accomplish alone - but I have little choice to do otherwise.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 20, 2014, 10:14:35 AM
Thanks for you concern Nick.  :)

The completion of the rulebook has dragged on for quite some time now and I can't quite seem to get over a few hurdles to get on and finish the project.

As I've said before I do feel the rules are fully playable and complete, but a polished and presentable rulebook is something I'm still struggling with.

I do admit it is a big task to accomplish alone - but I have little choice to do otherwise.

If you dont mind sharing, what specifically do you feel stuck on?  I get this sometimes with my dissertation as well.

Having gotten in a bunch of games now, mostly with first-timers, I agree that the rules themselves feel quite solid.  Everyone who has played has wanted a second game immediately and some mates at the game club expressed interest in trying the campaign rules.  I think I may just try that with 2 other people so we have a group of three, or do you think I should stick with 2?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on March 20, 2014, 10:30:34 AM
If you dont mind sharing, what specifically do you feel stuck on?  I get this sometimes with my dissertation as well.

Not at all TBC. I am struggling with the actual chapter layout - particularly, what rules go where and when to introduce certain "mechanics".

Also explaining the combat mechanics eloquently, being the integral part of the game, is causing me some grief. Although I admit that later playtest documents have caused less confusion with newbie players than my first attempts.

Having gotten in a bunch of games now, mostly with first-timers, I agree that the rules themselves feel quite solid.  Everyone who has played has wanted a second game immediately and some mates at the game club expressed interest in trying the campaign rules.  I think I may just try that with 2 other people so we have a group of three, or do you think I should stick with 2?

As the campaign rules aren't completely finalized and could do with some more play testing, I'd suggest a 2 player campaign to begin.

My campaign has been quite successful but has highlighted some areas I'm not completely satisfied with.

Is anyone also getting that sinking feeling that I may never be fully satisfied with a final product...
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 20, 2014, 11:44:49 AM
Not at all TBC. I am struggling with the actual chapter layout - particularly, what rules go where and when to introduce certain "mechanics".

Also explaining the combat mechanics eloquently, being the integral part of the game, is causing me some grief. Although I admit that later playtest documents have caused less confusion with newbie players than my first attempts.

As the campaign rules aren't completely finalized and could do with some more play testing, I'd suggest a 2 player campaign to begin.

My campaign has been quite successful but has highlighted some areas I'm not completely satisfied with.

Is anyone also getting that sinking feeling that I may never be fully satisfied with a final product...


I did find combat confusing in the first read, especially without the flowchart, which confirmed I misunderstood some things.  So not only is the newest draft the best so far as to clarity, I also see no problem with player-aides like the flowchart to make it all clear.  I think the basic mechanics are simple enough, but add in the variables of the classes and traits and the ability of people to be unpredictable, then some confusing elements may arise.

One question that came up for us, and I may have missed this in the rules, but my Murmillo opponent lost his shield in turn 3, before the end.  He had already lost 2 Shield Fatigue tokens, but what of the rest?  Did he remove one at the end of Turn 3 for holding the shield in that turn for any length of time, or would he have had to hold it till the end of the turn to lose the token?  For every turn that he does not have the shield, can he regain a Shield-Fatigue token from 'resting'?  

As to 'satisfaction' with one's finished product, I have never written my own game, but I am deeply engaged in the writing process of my dissertation.  I'm 4 out of 6 chapters done and must say, there is always 'room for improvement'.  Despite my perfectionism, I realize it's important to draw the line at some point.  I'm not sure what the cost in your area, or if there is say a local university, but you may want to see if a professional editor can go over your game to proof it for clarity.  In fact, perhaps a non-gamer is best as they wont focus on the 'game' but the mechanics of the language and structure of your instruction set.  I suggest university as a grad student may be the least expensive route....that is if you intend this for a commercial venture which I would STRONGLY encourage! The fella I played against on Sunday begged for a copy of the rules but I told him that I was sorry that they werent available yet but to be patient the finished game should be stellar!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Watts on March 20, 2014, 01:22:36 PM
This is just a thought, but if you are going to do a commercial release with nice tokens, dice, playsheets, rules etc., would it be worth doing a larger beta with the rules when you are happy with them? I think everyone would still buy the proper set when it came out - I know I would without hesitation. It might give you an opportunity to see if everything is working before the actual release.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 20, 2014, 02:09:42 PM
I think everyone would still buy the proper set when it came out - I know I would without hesitation.

Ditto.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Watts on March 20, 2014, 09:07:20 PM
Out of curiosity, how long do your matches usually last?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 20, 2014, 09:15:50 PM
Out of curiosity, how long do your matches usually last?

I have a large Hotz mat I use, and the gladiators begin 10 squares apart.  In rounds, I'd say 3-4 rounds and it's decisive.  I've also noticed that until his spear breaks, the Hoplomachus is pretty tough to beat.  The Threax is good against them only if they score a hit on a zero success attack.

How about yourself?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 20, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
I'm really loving the game, but I also really like this dice allocation mechanic. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on March 20, 2014, 09:38:54 PM
I think one of the great things about BOTS is the fact that matches are never identical.  I've had a few matches which resulted in a death within 3-4 rounds, and others which have taken maybe an hour or more to decide between two gladiators (due to great cunning and a non-insubstantial amount of luck).

Furt has a nice large testing group, it's simply the nitty gritty he's struggling with (and something I'm still struggling with in my own game, having re-written my rulebook a dozen times...).  It'll click shortly, I'm sure.  I think BOTS is just complicated enough that it has a few parts which take a moment to comprehend.  As I said in my first review, I got a little lost and abandoned it on my first go, because I was playing with my brother who isn't much of a gamer and I didn't want to bug him figuring it out.  Once I got together with my best friend (huge gamer) we sat down...read it together...played our first match slowly, and it was quite easy to replicate.

So, the game takes a little extra time - big deal.  It's great.  lol
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on March 21, 2014, 12:59:38 AM

One question that came up for us, and I may have missed this in the rules, but my Murmillo opponent lost his shield in turn 3, before the end.  He had already lost 2 Shield Fatigue tokens, but what of the rest?  Did he remove one at the end of Turn 3 for holding the shield in that turn for any length of time, or would he have had to hold it till the end of the turn to lose the token?  For every turn that he does not have the shield, can he regain a Shield-Fatigue token from 'resting'?  

Not sure what you mean exactly by the "2 Shield Fatigue tokens". Do you mean the "hourglass" tokens? If so, theoretically that means that his shield was about to start becoming a bother at the end of turn 3, but because he lost his shield, he no longer needed to worry.

If a gladiator drops, or has a fatiguing shield broken, he immediately loses any penalties for carrying it i.e. he removes the fatiguing shield counter.

Also, fatigue only ever comes into play during the Fatigue & Bleeding Phase.

Out of curiosity, how long do your matches usually last?

It really is variable but I would agree between 3-4 turns sounds average. In saying that I have had titanic matches stretching into 7-8 turns and a few that have even ended abruptly in turn 1.

While playing with stock standard Prowess 3 gladiators, I have found the tendency for the matches to stretch on a bit. When you match gladiators with varying and higher attributes although, like those found in a campaign game, things heat up quicker and I've found these games to be much more decisive.

In our 2 player campaign game we manage to complete 4 matches and all the campaign stuff in about 4 hours, which is pretty reasonable.

I've also noticed that until his spear breaks, the Hoplomachus is pretty tough to beat.  The Threax is good against them only if they score a hit on a zero success attack.

I recall reading that historically a Hoplomachus may have fought without his spear against the Thraex, indicating a pretty poor match. I tend to try and avoid matching my thraex against my opponent's Hoplomachus if I can. A murmillo tends to do much better against the Hoplomachi, and I find them almost reluctant to defend with their spear if they are carrying a Skull or two, in fear that they will loose the spear altogether. Thraexs tend to be "showy", causing lots of small irritating wounds that tend to wear an opponent down over time.

I think one of the great things about BOTS is the fact that matches are never identical.  I've had a few matches which resulted in a death within 3-4 rounds, and others which have taken maybe an hour or more to decide between two gladiators (due to great cunning and a non-insubstantial amount of luck).


I agree that the matches can produce very surprising and varied results. We have had a gladiator killed instantly with a lucky chest wound and matches that should be over quickly, stretch on for many rounds.

I also like the fact that matches do not result in a gladiator death often. In 4 campaign turns we have only had 4 actual gladiator deaths, which I feel is fairly realistic.

Thanks all for your support and interest still.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Watts on March 21, 2014, 01:15:36 PM
I have a large Hotz mat I use, and the gladiators begin 10 squares apart.  In rounds, I'd say 3-4 rounds and it's decisive.  I've also noticed that until his spear breaks, the Hoplomachus is pretty tough to beat.  The Threax is good against them only if they score a hit on a zero success attack.

How about yourself?

Our games have been going a bit longer but we've been using stock gladiators which might explain things as Furt pointed out.

We are about to start a 3 person campaign. One of my opponents managed to get a Skill 5, Strength 4 Murmillo, so that might make the matches a bit shorter...  :'(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 11, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
Hi guys,

It's my first post here and i've decided to join because of this great thread. :-* I like boardgames, wargames, etc...and i like the roman history (and especially gladiatorial combats).

I've been searching for a long time (ages ?) a good gladiator game (man vs man) which can balance (almost) « historical respect » and fun. And, of course, can preserve a tactical way with some hard decisions to make and a drop of chance.

After reading cautiously this thread and Mr FURT's blog, and because i've never found a game that very pleased me,  :? so...here i am !

What i've already seen here looks pretty good  ;D (awesome?!). The artwork is just amazing (yeah this « mosaic effect »!) and the game mechanisms, with the dice rolls system, the recipe i've been waiting for so long (and I want to taste it).

Have you plans to release a pro game with perhaps a KS campaign ?

...and i do to apologize for my english writing  ::)


So, as it is a game in development (but what a game !), i want to do some remarks and perhaps ask some questions (i hope not hurtful or tasteless) :

- I've seen in the fighters description the use of latin real names, but only a few of 'em (scutum, gladius...). Why not use latin for all the gladiators armaturea ?

Galea (helmet), ocrea (greave) and fascia (protective band of leather that protected the leg below the knee and provided padding below a greave), subligaculum (loincloth) and balteus (large belt), manica (arm padding of wrapped cloth and leather), reta (fishnet), galerus (the distinctive metal shoulder-guard of a retiarius), hasta (spear), fascina (trident), etc...

- I've seen class (heavy, light...) on the gladiator cards but unless it's needed by the rules, such weight categories never exist in gladiatorial fights. Only shield categories. Fighters with large shield (scutarii – Murmillo, Secutor), fighters with small shields (parmularii – Threax, Hoplomachus) and fighters without shield (like the retiarus).

- It seems in some playtests that fighters are killed in action really often (but it's only a feeling). Don't forget it was forbidden to kill directly your opponent (unless by accident). You have to do you best (not too fast, but not too long either) with your fighting skills to wound and tire him until he gives up and begs for mercy (missio). A referee (suma rudis), and his help (secunda rudis) were present to attend to the respect of the rules.

I've other things to mention but i dont' want to do a long post, so i'll be back... ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 11, 2014, 08:47:27 PM
Quote
I've managed quite a fair bit of play testing on my "Blood on the Sands" gladiator rules in the last fortnight (…) One was with "Barcias the Babykiller" a Damnatio ad gladium gladiator, destined to be put to death the first time he fails to win and the other was with an unnamed retiarius whose opponent  eventually submitted through exhaustion.

I'm not sure it's the good definition, because «damnatio ad gladium» means for a condemned to death to be killed by a gladiator (acting just like a executioner) and «damnatio at ludum gladiatorium» means for a condemned to death to be train (a little) in a ludus and to fight a real trained gladiator (with, of course, no chance to survive).

I'll be back... :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 11, 2014, 10:19:40 PM
Firstly, welcome Eithriall to LAF.

Secondly, it has been a little quiet around here concerning Blood on the Sands lately, so I thought this a good opportunity to explain that things are still happening behind the scenes. A few others and myself continue to playtest BotS, ironing out the last creases in the rules. As for when the game will be finished and available, I hope to have some answers and direction on that in the near future. Thanks to those still interested in the game and those who continue to contact me.

Eithriall, thanks for taking the time to join and comment. Your insight and thoughts of what you'd expect from a gladiator game is appreciated. Please keep your questions coming.

I've been searching for a long time (ages ?) a good gladiator game (man vs man) which can balance (almost) « historical respect » and fun. And, of course, can preserve a tactical way with some hard decisions to make and a drop of chance.

After reading cautiously this thread and Mr FURT's blog, and because i've never found a game that very pleased me,  :? so...here i am !

The very reason I wrote a game myself - most gladiator games I have played left me feeling unsatisfied that I just fought a gladiatorial combat. I believe Bots accomplishes all these things.

What i've already seen here looks pretty good  ;D (awesome?!). The artwork is just amazing (yeah this « mosaic effect »!) and the game mechanisms, with the dice rolls system, the recipe i've been waiting for so long (and I want to taste it).

Dr. Mathias has done an AMAZING job with the art. I believe BotS would lose most of it's visual appeal without his talented skills.

Have you plans to release a pro game with perhaps a KS campaign ?

Yes I do plan to publish the game and have considered KS, but I don't think it is the way I will go.

I have been considering options lately and have began discussing BotS future with some other parties, but more on that hopefully soonish...

...and i do to apologize for my english writing  ::)

So, as it is a game in development (but what a game !), i want to do some remarks and perhaps ask some questions (i hope not hurtful or tasteless) :

Ask away, and your English is fine, probably better than mine.  :)

- I've seen in the fighters description the use of latin real names, but only a few of 'em (scutum, gladius...). Why not use latin for all the gladiators armaturea ?

Galea (helmet), ocrea (greave) and fascia (protective band of leather that protected the leg below the knee and provided padding below a greave), subligaculum (loincloth) and balteus (large belt), manica (arm padding of wrapped cloth and leather), reta (fishnet), galerus (the distinctive metal shoulder-guard of a retiarius), hasta (spear), fascina (trident), etc...

I am aware of course of the Latin names for gladiator weapons/shields and equipment. I am far from a capable speaker/reader of Latin and would assume the majority of players are in the same boat. What I have done is included the Latin term when no better English option exists ie gladius, sica, scutum, parma. Otherwise "trident" is used instead of "fascina" or "dagger" instead of "pugio". I have used an equivalent description for the armour pieces and listed their Latin terms in brackets ie arm guard (manica).

- I've seen class (heavy, light...) on the gladiator cards but unless it's needed by the rules, such weight categories never exist in gladiatorial fights. Only shield categories. Fighters with large shield (scutarii – Murmillo, Secutor), fighters with small shields (parmularii – Threax, Hoplomachus) and fighters without shield (like the retiarus).

The terms heavy and light are really game terms only and help to differentiate a difference in the types of gladiators. No room existed for three "classes" of gladiators in the rules, so opted for 2, large heavy shield and armored gladiators, versus small shield and little armored gladiators.

- It seems in some playtests that fighters are killed in action really often (but it's only a feeling). Don't forget it was forbidden to kill directly your opponent (unless by accident). You have to do you best (not too fast, but not too long either) with your fighting skills to wound and tire him until he gives up and begs for mercy (missio). A referee (suma rudis), and his help (secunda rudis) were present to attend to the respect of the rules.

On the contrary, gladiators are rarely killed "instantly" in BotS. Most deaths result in the decision from the crowd/editor to spare the gladiator when asking for missio. In my own campaign game (currently at 6 turns and a total of 24 individual bouts) only 3 gladiators have been killed outright by their opponent in the arena and on average only 1 in 4 gladiators have been sentenced to die by the crowd. If a gladiator falls prone even, and his opponent delivers a decent enough attack, the match will be called and missio must be asked for. I think these results are close to historically accurate, as best as they can be. Gladiators certainly aren't over dieing in BotS.

Again thanks for your interest Eithriall. Please keep the questions coming. I don't think you will be disappointed by BotS, if you are seeking a "realistic" simulation of a man on man gladiatorial combat. I would let you playtest the rules yourself, but at this late stage of the game, that ship has sailed unfortunately mate...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 12, 2014, 05:51:15 AM
I'm not sure it's the good definition, because «damnatio ad gladium» means for a condemned to death to be killed by a gladiator (acting just like a executioner) and «damnatio at ludum gladiatorium» means for a condemned to death to be train (a little) in a ludus and to fight a real trained gladiator (with, of course, no chance to survive).

I'll be back... :)

In my research I found 'damnati ad gladium' to mean they were condemned to death either by execution by sword or to fight until dead as a gladiator. I have ran with "to fight until dead as a gladiator" and interpreted it to mean the gladiator will fight as normal, but will never be spared (granted missio). It is purely a Trait to spice up the game and may well not be how they functioned historically.

I could just as easily rename them damnatio at ludum gladiatorium.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on June 12, 2014, 07:07:51 AM
Glad to see you're still working on it Frank. We got a bit side tracked by Dr De'Ath's Little Lead Adventures on Mars and Texas, but shall return to Rome soon hopefully to continue our campaign. ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 12, 2014, 08:00:22 AM
Glad to see you're still working on it Frank. We got a bit side tracked by Dr De'Ath's Little Lead Adventures on Mars and Texas, but shall return to Rome soon hopefully to continue our campaign. ;D

No probs Nick - look like you are all having too much fun on Mars and with Comanches.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: rumacara on June 12, 2014, 09:38:36 AM
Hello Frank

Keep it coming mate.
The interested people list is increasing.

Cheers

Rui
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 12, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
Thank you for your welcome Furt and many thanks for your time and your answers.  ;)

Hope not to be annoying with my remarks/questions but i like this historical period and as you're doing your best to do the best game ever on gladiatorial combats (and share the evolution of your project), i'm particularly interested.

So, show must go on :

Quote
I am aware of course of the Latin names for gladiator weapons/shields and equipment [...]What I have done is included the Latin term when no better English option exists ie gladius, sica, scutum, parma.

I understand your choice for the latin terms, i was asking because i like the immersive (and accurate) approach of foreign language even if i'm aware that most of players don't speak latin (and i'm not so good at it). As the design of the game is so immersive, i probably and unconsciously want all the game following this idea.
  o_o

Quote
The terms heavy and light are really game terms only and help to differentiate a difference in the types of gladiators. No room existed for three "classes" of gladiators in the rules [...].

Ok, i understand but in the golden age of gladiatorial combats (the technical era – I et II centuries AD), most of the pairings were the result of this classification : parmularii vs scutarii (and with some mirror combats too).

Murmillo vs Threax or Hoplomachus or Retiarius / Secutor vs Retiarius  / etc...

But as it is a game, there's no need to force players with historical pairings which would reduced the combat possibilities (and the fun !). As i've already said, it's finally just to be more immersive and historically accurate.

Quote
Most deaths result in the decision from the crowd/editor to spare the gladiator when asking for missio. In my own campaign game (currently at 6 turns and a total of 24 individual bouts) only 3 gladiators have been killed outright by their opponent in the arena and on average only 1 in 4 gladiators have been sentenced to die by the crowd.

So my firt impressions were wrong and i'm very happy to be wrong.  lol  What you've said sounds very good to me because, as we speak of the technical era,  not so much fighters die in the arena (for sure less than 20% -  perhaps 10% to 15% according to some sources). There's no need to be statistically realistic (yes i know, it's a game) but you're right when saying :
Quote
I think these results are close to historically accurate
. And they are fully acceptable for a game.

Tirones (novice gladiators) were the most in danger on their first combat because as their formation hasn't cost so much at this particular moment, they were more easily sacrificiable by the editor. As they've not won combat their price was still low (they were, for sure, unknown).
 :(
It's very important to explain for neophyte about gladiatorial combat that an editor (the one who organize the munera – the combats) rent gladiators to a lanista (the one who rules a ludus – buying and training gladiators) and when a gladiator dies, the editor have to pay the fully price of the figher to the lanista (knowing that gladiators were higly-rated when they were celebrities).
As an editor, if you kill a tiro, you will pay 4.000 sesterces.
Kill a primus palus and you will pay 15.000 sesterces or more...(some stars cost about 100.000 sesterces or more).

As a term of comparison, in the debut of the empire era a common adult slave cost 2.000 sesterces (it could be less but it could be more if the slave's got some qualifications) and a roman legionary earns 900 sesterces/year.

Quote
If a gladiator falls prone even, and his opponent delivers a decent enough attack, the match will be called and missio must be asked for.

I like that and i agree !  :D This seems to be historically accurate. A Gladiator can't hit an opponent falling prone and he'll be stop by the referee if he does.

About the "damnatio ad gladium" -
Quote
"I have ran with "to fight until dead as a gladiator" and interpreted it to mean the gladiator will fight as normal, but will never be spared (granted missio). It is purely a Trait to spice up the game and may well not be how they functioned historically".

You can keep the terms "Damnatio ad gladium" because this is not so clear.
There are different expressions existing like "damnatio ad ferrum" (condemned to iron) and "damnatio ad gladium" (condemned to gladius)....so directly killed by the sword of a gladiator or with a enacment of combat against a gladiator. "Damnatio ad ludum gladiatorium" could only be a sentence to become a gladiator and train and fight as well (and perhaps with the possibility to gain your liberty with the rudis) when "damnatio ad gladium" only means death.
And last but not least "damnatio ad gladium" sounds pretty cool when pronounced...  ::)

Quote
In all my research of this stuff I have found conflicting evidence of which hand the retiarius actually held his net. I actually think he would hold his trident in the armored hand (left) and hold the net in the right hand. Miniatures from different ranges show the trident in different hands.

For the Retiarius, manica and galerus cover the arm and shoulder the fighter present to his opponent when in guard position (as it is his only armor defense). Dont forget Retiarus manage 3 things at the same time : reta (net), fascina (trident) and pugio (dagger). His second arm is unprotected to be free of movement and very fast, so the Retiarus can manage his stuff as he will or need.
For a right-handed man : pugio in left hand (side protected by manica in guard position), trident hold in both hands with the net in right hand at the same time.

(http://img1.imagilive.com/0614/thumbs_Sans_titre.PNG) (http://img1.imagilive.com/affiche/0614/Sans_titre.PNG.htm)

And the link to the source site of this image : http://historianet.fi/verkkotaistelija (http://historianet.fi/verkkotaistelija)

Quote
"do you think the need for custom dice might put some people off ?"

NO !! It's a great idea and part of the gameplay and identity of the game. And for the kill-joys there is still D6...

Quote
A shield has a weapon length, just like a gladius or spear. It is used simply by declaring an attack with it, just like any other weapon. At the moment there is no penalty to attack or damage with a shield, but I am considering implementing that a wound delivered by shields will not "bleed".
In much of the documentation and video of reenactments, shields are used quite offensively, so I refrained from penalizing them in attack. It seems likely that gladiators were schooled to use their shields in attack as well as defence.

Yes, some sources show that shields were used to attack (not only defend) and shields may stun or pushback opponents...a strong hit could even make fall someone on the ground.
 >:D

New questions :

- All weapons are designed for contact (pugio, sica, gladius – shorter than the legio's type) excepted  Hoplomachus spear and Retiarius trident and i've dont' seen information about the range of these polearm weapons ?

- I don't know your plans about the campain system and the experience won by survivors but the Table of Italica speaks about 5 existing gladiator categories : from the lower n°5 (novice – tirones) to the upper n°1 (primus palus). Could it be an interesting information ?

- I've seen the hit location table is the same for all gladiators and that's odd to me because when a fighter tries to break the defense of his opponent, he will try (most of the time) to place attack and hit the uncovered body parts. So dont you think hit location should be different between armaturae ?
(Yes i know, parmularii & scutarii again...). And it's very clear if you watch some fights done by experimental archeologists.


....i'm not sure i'm done yet with this thread...  :o
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 12, 2014, 06:40:00 PM
We've already had quite a debate about which weapon was on which arm of the retiarius- so much so I made a template for both options  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 12, 2014, 06:50:14 PM
Retiarius is not forced to hold the trident in only one defined hand. If you are right-handed, the image in my pravious post makes sense.

And by the way, you did a very nice job Mr Mathias.    :-*    :-*    :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 12, 2014, 06:53:05 PM
Retiarius is not forced to hold the trident in only one defined hand.

And by the way, you did a very nice job Mr Mathias.    :-*    :-*    :-*

Thanks, it was pretty fun. And, I've forgotten how I did it ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 12, 2014, 07:43:43 PM
Quote
If a gladiator is left handed, Scaeva, how does this effect his equipment and the hit location table? I would imagine him standing exactly mirrored to the normal table, but that would put the regular layout of armor on the wrong side. Does that then switch around as well, or would the rules of the arena not allow this. I'm curious to the historical president on this.

According to sources, gladiators were trained to fight right-handers but left-handed fighters are attested more than once. It should be disconcerting and very difficult to confront a left-handed man when not prepared to such fight.  
???
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 12, 2014, 09:38:18 PM
Hello Frank

Keep it coming mate.
The interested people list is increasing.

Cheers

Rui

Thanks Rui - I'm trying mate.

Wow Eithriall - what a post! I'm a little dizzy after reading all that!  o_o  o_o  o_o

I'd just like to explain, Eithriall, to ease your thoughts a little, that I have done my utmost to take information from historical sources and tried to implement it into Blood on the Sands in some way, to best capture the flavour of actual gladiatorial combat. I have long been fascinated by this disturbing but alluring combat sport, and have read a lot of books and watched a lot historical re-enactors, so I think you just have to trust me when I say I have put a lot of time (years actually) and research into the game. I was very disappointed by other gladiator games, when obvious elements of gladiatorial combat did not feature in their rules, so decided finally to make the game that I always wanted to play.

Now to your queries and new questions:

But as it is a game, there's no need to force players with historical pairings which would reduced the combat possibilities (and the fun !). As i've already said, it's finally just to be more immersive and historically accurate.

I do actually enforce a classic pairing when possible. When playing the campaign game it becomes very difficult to maintain these pairings historically, so exemptions have to be made, but you will never see two Thraex or Retarii for example fight in a match.

It's very important to explain for neophyte about gladiatorial combat that an editor (the one who organize the munera – the combats) rent gladiators to a lanista (the one who rules a ludus – buying and training gladiators) and when a gladiator dies, the editor have to pay the fully price of the figher to the lanista (knowing that gladiators were higly-rated when they were celebrities).
As an editor, if you kill a tiro, you will pay 4.000 sesterces.
Kill a primus palus and you will pay 15.000 sesterces or more...(some stars cost about 100.000 sesterces or more).


This all features in the campaign game, but was the most difficult to rule on. In game terms, paying a player to lose a gladiator can come across as rewarding him for losing, and feels a little odd at times.

All weapons are designed for contact (pugio, sica, gladius – shorter than the legio's type) excepted  Hoplomachus spear and Retiarius trident and i've dont' seen information about the range of these polearm weapons ?

All weapons (including unarmed, nets and shields) have a "Length" stat. Opponent's weapons Lengths are compared, with the longer weapon gaining a bonus to attack in combat. For example a trident versus a gladius rewards the trident wielding gladiator a 2 dice bonus. If both gladiators wield gladii neither gain a bonus, as the weapons are of equal length.

I don't know your plans about the campain system and the experience won by survivors but the Table of Italica speaks about 5 existing gladiator categories : from the lower n°5 (novice – tirones) to the upper n°1 (primus palus). Could it be an interesting information ?

The levels of experience, from highest to lowest are: Primus Palus - Secundus Palus - Tertius Palus - Quartus Palus - Tiro. A brand new slave, yet to be trained as a gladiator, I have labelled a Novicius, while a Tiro becomes a gladiator, yet to have fight in hte arena.

I've seen the hit location table is the same for all gladiators and that's odd to me because when a fighter tries to break the defense of his opponent, he will try (most of the time) to place attack and hit the uncovered body parts. So dont you think hit location should be different between armaturae ?

Hit location has been one of the most contentious elements of the game for me. What appears like a very simple thing, when gladiators are concerned, is very complex. Tied closely to this is armour placement of course. I opted for a generic table that distributes hits on mostly "covered" locations more often. So a gladiator's presented "shield arm" and leading leg will be struck, statistically more often than other parts of his body, with the unprotected torso the least struck. You may influence this random location by use of the "Aimed Blow" attack. The retiarius is of course the most vulnerable, but more than makes up for it in other ways, as playtesters can contest to. I do not see the need for individual hit locations for the varied armaturae and believe the system works quite well. For example, when striking a murmillo, most attacks still contact the scutum, doing little more than bruising usually. Less frequently attacks fall on his manica (weapon hand) or even his back leg, which are usually more telling.

According to sources, gladiators were trained to fight right-handers but left-handed fighters are attested more than once. It should be disconcerting and very difficult to confront a left-handed man when not prepared to such fight.

Scaeva enjoy a healthy bonus (re-rolling all "1"s) when fighting a right-handed opponent. The hit-location does not change although, so as not to over complicate things.

I hope I am convincing you Eithriall, that Blood on the Sands is a game about "actual" gladiatorial combat. But keep the questions coming...

We've already had quite a debate about which weapon was on which arm of the retiarius- so much so I made a template for both options  lol

Oh yes we have!  lol  lol  lol



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on June 12, 2014, 09:57:45 PM
While I'm no expert, when I stumbled into the BOTS playtest I was already scratching up notes to make my own gladiator game (because none of the ones I'd played had delivered what I wanted).  Needless to say that effort was abandoned when I started playing BOTS.  While writing up notes for my own game I had purchased about four books, read countless websites, etc.  I had established quite a decent knowledge of the gladiator lifestyle, the handling of the games etc.

So far, Furt's effort hits the sweet spot on almost all of what I had read (and I've found no major conflicting issues).  It's a game which will appeal to gamers and to historical nuts. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 12, 2014, 10:13:54 PM
So far, Furt's effort hits the sweet spot on almost all of what I had read (and I've found no major conflicting issues).  It's a game which will appeal to gamers and to historical nuts. 

Your cheque is in the mail Elbows.  ;)

But seriously, Elbows has been a major player in the playtesting area and has brutally put BotS through her paces. If anyone could tell you it plays OK, he could.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on June 13, 2014, 12:19:35 AM
Pfftt you act like dozens of PM's "what the hell does this mean!?" or "how the hell does that work!?" is too much... lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on June 13, 2014, 07:10:11 AM
Your cheque is in the mail Elbows.  ;)



Where's my cheque ???

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Poiter50 on June 13, 2014, 07:12:09 AM
Mama does it for the love?  ;)

Where's my cheque ???

 lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 13, 2014, 07:27:22 AM
Where's my cheque ???

 lol

Yup - owe you one too mate, but God forbid, what is Dr. Mathias going to expect!?!?!?!  :o

Mama does it for the love?  ;)


Mama Malamute?  ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on June 13, 2014, 07:37:22 AM
Mama does it for the love?  ;)


He's right, for the love of a good woman, But don't tell my wife ;) lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 13, 2014, 09:41:05 AM
Sorry  for the long post... if i only have read the rules once you should have avoid half of my questions at least ! But i promise not to force you writing all the rules here because of me....  :'(

Quote
"I'd just like to explain, Eithriall, to ease your thoughts a little, that I have done my utmost to take information from historical sources and tried to implement it into Blood on the Sands in some way, to best capture the flavour of actual gladiatorial combat".

Reading your answers, i've no doubt about your knowledge and, perhaps, you may think i'm testing it but actually i'm not...i'm just so interested and enthusiastic about this game !

Quote
"I was very disappointed by other gladiator games, when obvious elements of gladiatorial combat did not feature in their rules"

So am i ! But it seems not so easy to combinate good, balanced and easy playable simulation rules (i just hate playing with rules booklet on my knees), preserving fun and historical accuracy.

Quote
"The levels of experience, from highest to lowest are: Primus Palus - Secundus Palus - Tertius Palus - Quartus Palus - Tiro. A brand new slave, yet to be trained as a gladiator, I have labelled a Novicius, while a Tiro becomes a gladiator, yet to have fight in the arena".

You just don't know how i'm glad to read this...  ;)

Quote
I do actually enforce a classic pairing when possible.
Quote
All weapons (including unarmed, nets and shields) have a "Length" stat.
Quote
Scaeva enjoy a healthy bonus (re-rolling all "1"s) when fighting a right-handed opponent.
You just don't know how i'm glad to read this...again and again.  ;D

Quote
"Hit location has been one of the most contentious elements of the game for me. [...] I opted for a generic table that distributes hits on mostly "covered" locations more often. So a gladiator's presented "shield arm" and leading leg will be struck, statistically more often than other parts of his body [...]."You may influence this random location by use of the "Aimed Blow" attack".

It's good, it really make sense as we have the possibilty to do some "aimed attack".
 
Quote
"This all features in the campaign game [...]"

As the fighting rules sounds very good to me, i become very intersted by the campaign ones. You don't have speak so much of 'em in this thread do you ?

Quote
"[...]In game terms, paying a player to lose a gladiator can come across as rewarding him for losing, and feels a little odd at times".

It depends how complex and/or realistic you want the rules. At the moment it seems to be a rewarding but the gladiator is an investment the lanista has already paid (and the purpose is to make some profits). The buy of a slave or the paiement of the pretium for free men (auctorati), the training, the travels, the weapons, the staff, the wages, etc...

And lanistae don't just recruit gladiators, they could sell some of them to greater ludi when they've got some fame.

To be accurate, sure you know gladiators made no more than 4 or 5 fights with real sharpen weapons a year (perhaps less if wounded). But nobody really knows how much fights could do a gladiator in a year including fights with blunt weapons.
Through epigraphy and iconography there's very few informations about combats with blunt weapons but they're attested. The gladiators epitaphs on funerary stelea mention most of the time only the fighting records gain with real weapons (blunt ones were surely less glorious to mention).

Quote
"So far, Furt's effort hits the sweet spot on almost all of what I had read (and I've found no major conflicting issues).  It's a game which will appeal to gamers and to historical nuts".

I've not playtested the game but all that i've seen and read right now let me think the same as you Mr. Elbows.  ;)

Quote
"I hope I am convincing you Eithriall, that Blood on the Sands is a game about "actual" gladiatorial combat".

I think i'm already convinced mr. Furt, and i'm sure Blood on the Sands could be (will be) "la tuerie du siècle" (as we said in France) among gladiatorial combat game.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 14, 2014, 06:17:56 AM
Eithriall, I'm very happy you approve about some of the details included in the rules. You are obviously a gladiator fan and "aficionado" too!

I haven't revealed much about the campaign rules, but in truth it is in place to simply tie all the combats in and hopefully see some of your gladiators rise to stardom.

The campaign is played over a game year consisting of 1d6+6 turns, representing the months in which a munus takes place. The winner of the campaign game is the lanista who has accumulated the most Influence at the end of this period.

This is a quick look at the phases that make up a campaign turn:

Event Phase
   Events
Auction Phase
   Sell gladiators
   Buy gladiators
   Buy slaves
Libellus Gladiatorum Phase
   Libellus gladiatorum
Munus Phase
   Wagers
   Fight match
   Post match
   The Rudis
   Recording the Outcome
   Settle Wagers
   Record Injuries
   Earn Fame
   Earn Training Points
   Earn Influence
   Earn Wealth
Interim Phase
   Recuperating
   Training
   Rank advancement
   Collect bonus influence
   Collect bonus wealth
   Buy asset
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 14, 2014, 06:44:08 PM
Once again, thank you for your time and your kindness mr. Furt.

Quote
You are obviously a gladiator fan and "aficionado" too!

It seems you and me share some identical readings & sphere of interest.  ;)

Quote
I haven't revealed much about the campaign rules, but in truth it is in place to simply tie all the combats in (...)

Wow...simply tie the combats...? It seems you'd rather have tried to re-create and simulate "the real life" of a ludus in a season of munera !
  :o
I just don't know about the details, but according to my knowledge, you've tried to take care of a lot of informations concerning the munera and the way lanistae rule their business. I'am very impressed.

You're fighting rules seems to be very excellent, but this overview of your system campaign just made me more curious and impatient. You're taking the all thing so far...
 ;D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 14, 2014, 07:24:54 PM
Blood on the Sands really does have the best one-on-one combat mechanics I've seen. I've not had time to run a campaign but my friend and I gearing up for it.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 15, 2014, 04:15:59 AM
I just don't know about the details, but according to my knowledge, you've tried to take care of a lot of informations concerning the munera and the way lanistae rule their business. I'am very impressed.

You're fighting rules seems to be very excellent, but this overview of your system campaign just made me more curious and impatient. You're taking the all thing so far...
 ;D

Thanks Eithriall. The campaign side of things has been hardest to playtest as well, considering it takes considerable more effort and time than fighting the combats.

There is a lot of evidence though about how the business of running a ludus was conducted. To simplify things although I have omitted some things as upkeep costs and buying equipment etc. My goal is not to eliminate any players (lanistae) from the campaign through trivialities like this.

The events mentioned bring into the game some oddities that I have read through my research, along with some "Hollywood-esque" things to spice up the campaign.

I am a real sucker for random events. Here is a taste of some of the events:

Lady Admirer: A noblewoman seeks a secret affair with one of your gladiators. She chooses a Handsome lover firstly and if unavailable, or spoilt for choice, the gladiator with the highest Stamina. The chosen gladiator earns his ludus 1 Influence, 1d6x100 Wealth and he gains +1 Fame.

Sine Missione: An upcoming match will be fought to the death. After the libellus gladiatorum has been determined, you must select the matched pair that will fight to the death. A gladiator that is forced to surrender during the match will not be spared and is automatically put to the sword. The victor earns his ludus 2 Influence and twice the usual Wealth.

Poisoner: You gain the opportunity to have a gladiator removed from a rival ludus. You may choose a victim and roll 4d6 in an opposed Stamina test with the gladiator. If you succeed, the gladiator dies a horrible death; if you fail he falls ill and is forced to miss the upcoming munus. If you fail to roll a single success in the test, the poisoning attempt fails utterly and you are implicated in the skulduggery; lose 2d6 Influence.

Gladiatrix:You are presented with the opportunity to purchase a female slave that exhibits the potential to be schooled as a gladiatrix. If you purchase a slave during the Auction Phase, you may designate one as a female. She will begin each bout with +2 Favour, but her Strength may never exceed 5. A gladiatrix earns +200 Wealth each victory.

Blood on the Sands really does have the best one-on-one combat mechanics I've seen. I've not had time to run a campaign but my friend and I gearing up for it.

Thanks for your continued support Dr. Mathias - it means a lot.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 15, 2014, 03:57:42 PM
Quote
To simplify things although I have omitted some things as upkeep costs and buying equipment etc. My goal is not to eliminate any players (lanistae) from the campaign through trivialities like this.

I agree with you as you've already integrated a lot of things. The campaign turn makes really sense and seems ok to me.

Quote
I am a real sucker for random events.

Your ideas sound good to me, no need to stay stuck in a strictly historical way...I particularly like the poisoner event.  lol

I dont' know exactly the mechanics you've chosen but here are some ideas (i write 'em as they come to my mind) :

Plague or disease : hardest way : all the lanistea suffer 1 (random) gladiator loss. Smoothest way, all the lanistea have 1 or x sick gladiators forced to miss the upcoming munus.

Riot : There was a fight in the arena between rival supporter factions in the last munus and soldiers had to step in to prevent an extensive riot... Emperor is angry, he's decided to cancel the next munus in this arena. All lanistea lose x sesterces for expenses already engaged and the munus phase is cancelled.

Theft : Some weapons and armors have been stolen during the travel to the arena, gladiators using the x armatura can't fight in the upcoming munus.

Bodyguard : one fo your renowned gladiators had been hired as a bodyguard for some time. He can't fight to the upcoming munus but you gain x sesterces or x influence.

Market economy : a victorious roman military campaign has brought thousands of war prisoners and slaves, so the market price of slaves has collapsed. You can bought new slaves for 50%.

Auctoratio : a free man who was previously primus palus and has gained his rudis wants to re-engage. You gain x influence but have to pay x sesterces for his pretium. (And the gladiator may already be skilled - as a primus palus).

Sure some guys here could bring you some nice new ideas.



Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: rumacara on June 15, 2014, 06:51:47 PM
Hello all

Nice ideas.
Here are some others (without the latim flavour you both gave it).

Rival assassination - An atempt of getting rid of a rival lanista with 2 bodyguards (or more). An ambush in an alley ends with both rivals bodyguards fighting eachother and the lanistas trying to kill each other.

Noxi - Some noxi where given the chance to fight on the arena with lightly armed gladiators. One or more of the noxi are veteran fighters with (maybe) some good characteristics in fight so their chance improves and if they win they will become gladiators. The lanista wins another gladiator with some experience.

Cheers

Rui
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 18, 2014, 06:49:40 PM
As BotS uses custom dices and D6, here are some D6 with the latin flavor...

(http://img1.imagilive.com/0614/de-chiffre-romain-16-mm5e2.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 18, 2014, 09:18:40 PM
Thanks for the event suggestions guys.  :)

The table actually uses a d66 to determine the random event, giving me only 36 events, which were all filled quite easily.

Some are quite similar to your suggestions already:

Civil unrest   Local rioting and unrest causes the next munus to be cancelled outright. Skip the entire Munus Phase this turn.

Good stock An excess of slaves flood the market with ample, able bodied candidates for the gladiator schools. Lanistae buying slaves during the Auction Phase check their slaves for exceptional attributes by rolling 2d6 against each attribute, instead of the normal 3d6. If both dice roll greater than 2, the attribute increases to the lowest die result.

Illness A sickness sweeps through your ludus. Each of your gladiators must make a Stamina test, requiring two successes, or takes seriously ill and will be unavailable to participate in the upcoming munus. A Skilled or Expert Medicus will add +1 or +2 to his Stamina, respectively.

As BotS uses custom dices and D6, here are some D6 with the latin flavor...

I do have some of these dice, but find that I actually prefer "normal" dice, because my small brain takes a second or more to calculate my rolls.  lol

But they certainly add flavour.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 19, 2014, 03:15:41 AM
Poisoner:

Yeah, I got that 'imposed' upon me by Mark  ::)

I haven't forgotten and when the new season starts I'll be after him  >:D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Malamute on June 19, 2014, 08:25:55 AM
Yeah, I got that 'imposed' upon me by Mark  ::)

I haven't forgotten and when the new season starts I'll be after him  >:D

cheers

James

 lol

Yes I remember that incident, looking forward to the next fight. My Ludus needs to shape up and start chalking up some victories.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on June 19, 2014, 10:37:18 AM
My ludus was...rather unfortunate in my campaign (and we're only on turn 5/12).

1) My ludus had illness sweep through it...
2) My ludus was the subject of a scandal and my influence dropped...
3) My ludus was so depressing at this point that one of my slaves committed suicide...

Meanwhile my buddy's lead Retiarius (one fight from becoming the champion) suffered a scandal.  We both agreed a horse was involved.  Then his newest recruit was bedded by some high fallutin' Roman lady. 

He's been pretty damn lucky while my ludus has been shattered consistently and all of my gladiators killed.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 19, 2014, 06:51:24 PM
Sorry Mr. Furt, my mistake....I was thinking you had some difficulties with your event list but i was wrong.   :-X

So Mr. Elbows should we understand between the arena fights and the events you have lost all your gladiators ?
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 19, 2014, 07:10:34 PM
Still having fun with BoTS! :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 19, 2014, 08:44:20 PM
Yeah, I got that 'imposed' upon me by Mark  ::)

I haven't forgotten and when the new season starts I'll be after him  >:D

cheers

James

I actually rolled this last game and used it on my mate's up and coming champion. He had Stamina 4, but failed his rolled and I'm still giving him shit about it.  lol

Sorry Mr. Furt, my mistake....I was thinking you had some difficulties with your event list but i was wrong.   :-X

Not at all Eithrall, I've tried to cover a lot of little things I have read about in the Event Table.

Still having fun with BoTS! :D

Have you played lately TBC?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Elbows on June 19, 2014, 09:36:50 PM
Sorry Mr. Furt, my mistake....I was thinking you had some difficulties with your event list but i was wrong.   :-X

So Mr. Elbows should we understand between the arena fights and the events you have lost all your gladiators ?

I was down to a handful of gladiators at one point.  My slaves have been recruited and suitably trained, but my buddy's ludus is now in proper command of the campaign. I have a couple of worthwhile guys left.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 22, 2014, 04:37:57 PM
Mr. Furt,

Consideration of tiredness, the most important factor in a gladiatorial combat, seems to work well. As i understand the examples shown above, you've take care of weapons and armors weight, combined move & fight actions and injuries.

Do gladiators gain additional fatigue points in the end of each round ?
I've seen that some wounds can bleed. Does the blood loss influence fatigue points to force the fighters to surrender ?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Furt on June 22, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
Mr. Furt,

Consideration of tiredness, the most important factor in a gladiatorial combat, seems to work well. As i understand the examples shown above, you've take care of weapons and armors weight, combined move & fight actions and injuries.

Do gladiators gain additional fatigue points in the end of each round ?
I've seen that some wounds can bleed. Does the blood loss influence fatigue points to force the fighters to surrender ?

Each turn all gladiators gain a fatigue counter, during the "Fatigue & Bleeding Phase".

At this time, bleeding counters may also turn into additional fatigue counters if a Stamina test is failed against their number.

Some helmets, namely the Secutor and Arbelas helm, the scutum and full torso armour are considered fatiguing equipment. These also add to the number of bleeding counters cause extra fatigue each turn, after 2 turns have passed.

A gladiator has different levels of fatigue, which affect the amount of arena dice (governing his actions) he rolls. If he reaches "Spent", the gladiator is forced to ask for missio.

Should both gladiators simultaneously reach the "Spent" condition during the same Fatigue and Bleeding Phase, they are offered diludium, during which time the combatants will be allowed a brief interlude and given minor aid.

Hope this answers your queries mate.  :)
 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Campaign Results
Post by: Eithriall on June 23, 2014, 09:53:00 AM
As always, you meet all my expectations.   :D

And it's very great because fatigue, as experimental archeology shows it, is perhaps the most important factor in a fight. A gladiatorial combat is fast, technical and violent and it last no more than 10mn. Fighters are quickly threaten by hypoxia (and if you add the wounds...).

So, a fighter has to submit his opponent not too fast to please the editor and the crowd but not too long or he risks himsel to be exhausted and defeated. A gladiatorial combat is finally an incredible technical and demanding fighting sport.   o_o

I'm not sure i still have queries about BOTS because it seems you 've got it all planed out !   ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Furt on June 24, 2014, 01:46:09 AM
As always, you meet all my expectations.   :D

Glad you approve Eithriall!  :)

While searching through my camera today I found some shots taken during playtesting.

Nothing great but shows the new playsheets in use along with some unseen armatura sheets.

Will hopefully have a bit of an announcement to post here soon.  :)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xYKSRdAGhdo/U6jWIFAEKZI/AAAAAAAAB4A/Oz1rZhYXeDk/s1600/Playtest01.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GRMigtEjQWM/U6jWK7iimTI/AAAAAAAAB4I/z1lRAQbVA6w/s1600/Platest02.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sc0RpT2QZRE/U6jWMckapAI/AAAAAAAAB4Q/itmLt2sBhSE/s1600/Playtest03.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BUjrDNG938g/U6jWPPvFlZI/AAAAAAAAB4Y/BQmTeSByrRc/s1600/Playtest04.jpg)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Forofo27 on June 24, 2014, 05:33:21 AM
Very nice, were I can order one?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Eithriall on June 24, 2014, 05:49:45 AM
 :-*   :-*   :-*   :-*   :-*

The game design is definitively awesome and immersive ! The armaturae are pretty damn cool.

Quote
Will hopefully have a bit of an announcement to post here soon.

I just can't wait any longer....  ;D

As a gamer and an avid amateur historian, everything that i've learned since i've joined this thread is ferociously challenging my patience and my desire to play this great game.   o_o

Nice job Mr Furt. I am already looking for the store which will sell this future success.   8)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Malamute on June 24, 2014, 07:08:28 AM
Looking great Franky Boy!

 :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Furt on June 24, 2014, 11:57:08 PM
Very nice, were I can order one?

I'd like to know that myself!?!?! Hopefully in the near future I will have an answer to that...

:-*   :-*   :-*   :-*   :-*

The game design is definitively awesome and immersive ! The armaturae are pretty damn cool.

I just can't wait any longer....  ;D

Thanks Eithriall. I owe all the look of the game to Dr. Mathias.

Looking great Franky Boy!

Thanks Nicky Boy! I was hoping to see you busy lads continue your bouts in the arena. Hell it would clear up a lot of the banter on this forum!  lol
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Malamute on June 25, 2014, 08:55:19 PM


Thanks Nicky Boy! I was hoping to see you busy lads continue your bouts in the arena. Hell it would clear up a lot of the banter on this forum!  lol

 lol

Have no fear we shall return to Cappua, probably in the Autumn.(got to get Texas and the Comanche out of my system first.) ;)
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 26, 2014, 02:39:16 AM
Looking great Franky Boy!

 :)

Holy Smokes Frank! Someone's been hard at work!  Game looks great!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Furt on June 26, 2014, 03:41:35 AM
Have no fear we shall return to Cappua, probably in the Autumn.(got to get Texas and the Comanche out of my system first.) ;)

I had the feeling your time has been otherwise occupied mate.  ;)

Holy Smokes Frank! Someone's been hard at work!  Game looks great!

Thanks TBC - I'm am very happy with the look too.

The last thing I was discussing with Dr. Mathias is the need for a Blood on the Sands "logo". That would be the icing on the cake.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Eithriall on June 26, 2014, 12:17:00 PM
If you're looking for a "logo" that means you already have an illustration for your rulebook cover...   ???

Are you planning a rulebook with photos and/or drawings inside ?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Playsheet Images
Post by: Elbows on June 26, 2014, 10:01:12 PM
Yes, he's shown some prototype images for a cover etc.  It's all being well handled thus far.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on June 27, 2014, 06:07:34 AM
Yes, he's shown some prototype images for a cover etc.  It's all being well handled thus far.  :)

I have tentatively shown a few test covers to some of the playtesters with varying thoughts...

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mFlQuy2XpKQ/U60DNGFQUoI/AAAAAAAAB5A/M8cHNnjIE18/s1600/Blood+on+the+Sands_+COVER.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-09XdJ78dKA0/U60DGSuC5pI/AAAAAAAAB44/CdDIGn4iBcU/s1600/Blood+on+the+Sands_+COVER_04.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RGQUezrFvao/U60FU2yPvRI/AAAAAAAAB5M/NlW7NXK-Ql8/s1600/Blood+on+the+Sands_+COVER_LOW_03.jpg)

The first two covers include images from our own extremely talented, Mad Doc Morris, from his post http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=34269.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=34269.0). They have been used with his permission. The majority of comments, including those from Mad Doc Morris himself, were against using images of actual miniatures on the cover, even miniatures painted to such a high standard. Most believed that this style of cover did not come across as professional looking. This reflects in no way on Mad Doc Morris's painting skill - I would give my left arm to have half his talent.

The last cover uses an image I have used before on my playtest sheets by Neil Blade, an artist on the deviantART site http://neilblade.deviantart.com/art/Arena-146734177 (http://neilblade.deviantart.com/art/Arena-146734177). I have used this image without permission, because I have tried numerous times to contact the artist to no avail. So unfortunately although I like the piece it is unlikely I could use it anyway. Comments were a little more favorable towards this style of cover. It was also mentioned that the pattern at top and bottom served no real purpose and was distracting.

Are you planning a rulebook with photos and/or drawings inside ?

I was planning on using images from the talented so and so's here on LAF, but as we stand I don't know exactly what will be required for interior art/images. I'd image there will be a need for some diagrams too.

In saying that, if anyone has some high quality pics of nicely painted gladiators they are happy to put forward, I'd love to see them.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: rumacara on June 27, 2014, 06:29:47 AM
Hello Frank

The interior art could be fulfilled also by Dr. Mathias.
Some drawings to complement the rules.
Also inside you could also place some painted miniatures to give people some ideas.
The covering art should be a drawing instead of painted models.
Its more appealing than the painted models.
Just humble opinions.

Cheers

Rui
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Hu Rhu on June 27, 2014, 09:17:10 AM
I agree that the drawing is better than painted miniatures.  I would also go with the word Blood in red but have you thought of having some blood flowing from the word itself? Looks like the whole thing is coming to fruition.  Well done.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Eithriall on June 27, 2014, 08:00:24 PM
My humble opinion....For the interior art, just try to keep the same "artwork spirit" already done on the playing sheets by Dr. Mathias  :)  and with some drawings to complement the rules.

I think painted miniatures photos are better inside the rulebook and like Mr Rumacara, i prefer a cover with an original drawing. It's sad you can't have Neil Blade's permission to use his drawing because it just kills !!!  :-*
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on June 27, 2014, 11:00:58 PM
Hah, see Furt!   lol

(I said I liked the mosaic artwork better than photos about four months ago when he asked.  Personal opinion of course!)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on June 28, 2014, 12:27:58 PM
The interior art could be fulfilled also by Dr. Mathias.
Some drawings to complement the rules.

Yes I agree, some more mosaic art would be wonderful, but poor Dr. Mathias is a busy man and has already done so much - so unless the armatura images could be repeated on the cover, then unfortunately this is not an option  :)

The majority of people do seem to prefer actual art over miniatures, but on my blog a couple of people prefer the miniatures over actual art.  o_o

I guess you can't please everyone.

It's sad you can't have Neil Blade's permission to use his drawing because it just kills !!!  :-*

I like the image too, although if you look closely enough it is not historically accurate, but since the artist is AWOL I doubt it's an option anyway. I think he was an Aussie too.

Hah, see Furt!   lol

(I said I liked the mosaic artwork better than photos about four months ago when he asked.  Personal opinion of course!)

I know - I told you so.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Humboldt on July 05, 2014, 08:47:27 PM
Oh dear, I'm glad to be back and it is great to see the progress of BotS! I really love the idea of campaign-events. Good job, Frank. May I ask a small question about the campaign? Assumingly the campaign is designed for an open-end game or is there any sort of "term-limit"? Just asking because I get my girlfriend fully into boardgames and maybe (I'm actually pretty sure) she will love the idea of her own ludus as well, but perhaps feels more comfy if there is any "goal" or "term-limit". A very gameish question...  :?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on July 06, 2014, 09:37:10 PM
May I ask a small question about the campaign? Assumingly the campaign is designed for an open-end game or is there any sort of "term-limit"?

Hi Humbolt - welcome back.

The campaign consists of 6+1d6 turns, which represents how many games will be held that year. So a campaign will run anywhere from 7-12 turns.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Humboldt on July 06, 2014, 11:38:40 PM
Thank you Frank!

Good news. Just talked about it with my girlfriend and she liked it.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on July 07, 2014, 12:19:55 AM
While it's not part of the campaign system per se, my buddy and I decided that at the end of a campaign we might place all of our surviving gladiators into the market...establish values for them so that later campaigns, the lanistae could possibly purchase a semi-retired legend.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Monty on July 07, 2014, 02:46:48 PM
Hi Furt,

some friends and me visited a Roman festival four weeks ago where some guys presented gladiators and their way to fight (pictures here (http://montys-caravan.blogspot.de/2014/06/monty-on-tour-roemertage-2014-in-xanten.html)). Since then I've been looking up gladiator miniatures as well as appropriate rulesets.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D0pfSXtuI4g/U59L4uyyHyI/AAAAAAAACqg/GlNdf9ZE1cs/s1600/Romans_2014_005.JPG)
So I stumpled into this threat and worked through the 42 pages.
Awesome mates !   :o

There are some great AARs and all the pictures of the gaming material look simply stunning. Actually I can't wait to get an idea of the rules themselves. In case that you need another playtester please let me know.  ;)

Otherwise I'm looking forward to following your progress here!

Good luck furtheron!
Stefan
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Humboldt on July 07, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
some friends and me visited a Roman festival four weeks ago where some guys presented gladiators and their way to fight (pictures here (http://montys-caravan.blogspot.de/2014/06/monty-on-tour-roemertage-2014-in-xanten.html)). Since then I've been looking up gladiator miniatures as well as appropriate rulesets.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D0pfSXtuI4g/U59L4uyyHyI/AAAAAAAACqg/GlNdf9ZE1cs/s1600/Romans_2014_005.JPG)

Looks like the Familia Gladiatoria Pulli Cornicinis, a gladiator group around Marcus Junkelmann. Was it? Any way, nice picture Stefan, looks like a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Monty on July 07, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
It was a perfect day out with family and friends. And very inspiring concerning gladiator wargaming...   ;)

The group was Amor Mortis (http://www.gladiatorenschule.eu/) but I think they were highly influenced by Junkelmann's research. Who in this field of topics isn't?

But I don't want to lead too far off-topic...

Cheers
Stefan
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on July 07, 2014, 09:58:56 PM
While it's not part of the campaign system per se, my buddy and I decided that at the end of a campaign we might place all of our surviving gladiators into the market...establish values for them so that later campaigns, the lanistae could possibly purchase a semi-retired legend.

Yeah that could work Elbows. I haven't given continuing a second campaign enough thought, but I would possibly make the lanistae by back their own gladiators with Wealth, letting go any they could not afford. Their Assets would remain although.

There are some great AARs and all the pictures of the gaming material look simply stunning. Actually I can't wait to get an idea of the rules themselves. In case that you need another playtester please let me know.  ;)

Thanks for the comments Monty, unfortunately play testing is pretty much done mate.  :)

That is an awesome shot you have captured there. The troupe look like real professionals.

I have spent countless hours looking at reenactor images and watching their youtube videos in an attempt to capture the feel of a real gladiator duel. They helped me determine how I wanted the game to flow, with back and forward pushes and lulls in between.

I wish such troupes existed in Australia, but alas no.  :(
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Humboldt on July 07, 2014, 10:37:27 PM
It was a perfect day out with family and friends. And very inspiring concerning gladiator wargaming...   ;)

The group was Amor Mortis (http://www.gladiatorenschule.eu/) but I think they were highly influenced by Junkelmann's research. Who in this field of topics isn't?

I really like there homepage and I checked some youtube videos of Amor Mortis. Like Frank, I wish there were such groups around...

Yeah that could work Elbows. I haven't given continuing a second campaign enough thought, but I would possibly make the lanistae by back their own gladiators with Wealth, letting go any they could not afford. Their Assets would remain although.

I like Elbows idea. Kind of a transfer market installment. Playing around with some budget and maybe able to engage this high profile palus secundus retiarius. Or even fight a former member of your own ludus. Sounds like a lot of fun. 
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on July 08, 2014, 05:30:59 AM
With all of the garbage reality TV shows out there, it should be awesome to see a show based on modern contestants learning to become gladiators.  If anyone saw the vastly entertaining (and short lived) Full Metal Jousting...something along those lines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh5tsGQ9KLQ

It was a good show --- they kept the "drama" to a minimum and a lot of guys had some really good jousts.  I'd love to see something like that for Gladiators.  Would be really entertaining.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Monty on July 08, 2014, 06:08:03 AM
I really like there homepage and I checked some youtube videos of Amor Mortis. Like Frank, I wish there were such groups around...

That is an awesome shot you have captured there. The troupe look like real professionals.

I have spent countless hours looking at reenactor images and watching their youtube videos in an attempt to capture the feel of a real gladiator duel. They helped me determine how I wanted the game to flow, with back and forward pushes and lulls in between.

I wish such troupes existed in Australia, but alas no.  :(

You're welcome. Rather often I'm envy the British for their plenty of excellent wargaming shows. Maybe Roman history and reenactment are some things we could be envied then.    ;)
Joking aside as far as I know the Roemertage in Xanten are one of the largest gatherings of Roman reenactors. The Amor Mortis group is a very experienced group of gladiators but no professional actors or stuntmen. They're reenactors and try to perform real fights. Even though with blunt weapons I presume.

Thanks for the comments Monty, unfortunately play testing is pretty much done mate.  :)
Nothing to worry about. So I hope to be able to get the chance to acquire the finished rules soon.   ;)


Thanks for the comments Monty, unfortunately play testing is pretty much done mate.  :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Murmillo on July 08, 2014, 10:08:14 PM
Blood on the Sands looks bloody awesome! So good that I have to create myself an account to say so. I need to save all my sestertii in order to buy it as soon as it out to play. Just go (more or less) to the whole thread and it looks more than solid. Wonderful job Furt and Dr., just a wonderful job. Really looking forward to Blood on the Sands!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on July 09, 2014, 09:35:16 PM
Blood on the Sands looks bloody awesome! So good that I have to create myself an account to say so. I need to save all my sestertii in order to buy it as soon as it out to play. Just go (more or less) to the whole thread and it looks more than solid. Wonderful job Furt and Dr., just a wonderful job. Really looking forward to Blood on the Sands!

Thanks Murmillo and welcome to LAF mate. Is that you in your avatar!?!?

With all of the garbage reality TV shows out there, it should be awesome to see a show based on modern contestants learning to become gladiators. 

Now that's a cool idea. More like Ultimate Fighter, than Full Metal Jousting, but I get it. Come on Jerry Bruckheimer you are missing a golden opportunity here!!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 09, 2014, 09:50:31 PM
I don't want to derail too much but having any none-celebrity fighting for their lives would get me watching  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Murmillo on July 09, 2014, 11:58:30 PM
Thanks Murmillo and welcome to LAF mate. Is that you in your avatar!?!?

I would love the idea but at the end it is just a picture to represent my favourite armatura. I'm a scutarii.  :D

Quote
Now that's a cool idea. More like Ultimate Fighter, than Full Metal Jousting, but I get it. Come on Jerry Bruckheimer you are missing a golden opportunity here!!

I would love this idea and according to Junkelmann M. fighting with wooden swords is not that dangerous so it could be possible. :D Smashing shields, tridents, chanting supporters - sounds good to me!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on July 10, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
I don't want to derail too much but having any none-celebrity fighting for their lives would get me watching  :D

cheers

James

Or may I submit the idea of real "celebrities" actually fighting to the death...that I'd watch.  I can think of dozens I'd like to see skewered on the end of a trident...
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: fastolfrus on July 10, 2014, 09:46:40 PM
Or may I submit the idea of real "celebrities" actually fighting to the death...that I'd watch.  I can think of dozens I'd like to see skewered on the end of a trident...

Maybe we could add extra spice to it by bringing in hardened criminals for a pro-celebrity version?
Cheaper than paying to keep them in jail :~}
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Malamute on September 03, 2014, 03:36:54 PM
Jimbibbly, Dr De'Ath and I sat down last nigth and had another quick game of BotS.

 Its perfect for a filler game when the thought of laying out loads of terrain, miniatures etc is too much  and you don't have a great deal of time to play.

It didn't take long to refamiliarise ourselves with the rules and once again I watched as Mark's level Three Myrmillo was given a damn good pasting by James Level four Thraex. The increased skill togther with James strength five really made the difference. All Mark could do was take the hits and wait for a moment to strike.

Unfortunately it never came, James soon had Mark up against the wall, one severe cut to Marks leg followed, and a round or two later mark was on the floor begging for Missio after a killer blow to his abdomen.

Sadly for Mark the crowd was not impressed and he was dispatched without mercy.

 We did not have time for me to enter the arena and I would have been very nervous of being paired with James Thraex.  lol

Watching the game again reminded me how well conceived the rules are and how much fun we at the end of last year with the campaign. One the winter is upon us no doubt we will begin again. :)
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 03, 2014, 03:39:59 PM
How has this been coming along? This is one of the few games I can get the Little Lady to play more than once!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: swordman on September 04, 2014, 07:41:09 AM
any idea when these rules will be available for the herd of waiting people?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on September 04, 2014, 10:22:56 AM
My regular Skype opponent has internet issues, so our campaign has ground to a halt (and not soon enough...I think I lost about 4-5 matches in a row before his internet crashed - he believes I sabotaged it).

I have some Noxii who need skewering, and I'm still...patiently waiting to have my new arena constructed.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Mason on September 04, 2014, 12:04:56 PM
.....James soon had Mark up against the wall, one severe cut to Marks leg followed, and a round or two later mark was on the floor begging for Missio after a killer blow to his abdomen.

 :o :o :o

Sounds like things get quite rough at your place these days!


Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 04, 2014, 02:07:57 PM
My regular Skype opponent has internet issues, so our campaign has ground to a halt (and not soon enough...I think I lost about 4-5 matches in a row before his internet crashed - he believes I sabotaged it).

I have some Noxii who need skewering, and I'm still...patiently waiting to have my new arena constructed.

I'm generally free :D
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on September 04, 2014, 10:08:55 PM
TBC, you can PM me if you'd like to try to set something up.  My buddy and I both use similar hex maps and we numbered them for ease of use when plying via Skype, but I'd be down for some games, for sure.

I work night shift here, so at +5 GMT I'm not sure how that works with you European fellows.  I'd be awake in the middle of your morning most of the time.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 05, 2014, 06:41:28 AM
James soon had Mark up against the wall

Well, you know  ;D

It was a bit of a mismatch but it's the only way I can win  lol

Roll on the darker nights  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Malamute on September 05, 2014, 07:11:07 AM


It was a bit of a mismatch but it's the only way I can win  lol



cheers

James

 lol

Nonsense, you do yourself an injustice, it was a display of skill, dexterity, superior training and some lucky dice rolls  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: axabrax on September 05, 2014, 02:55:15 PM
Is the game going to come out this year? Any projections at all?
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on September 08, 2014, 12:51:42 AM
Sorry I'm so late to these posts but somehow I missed it all!

Nice to see Nick and the lads bringing BotS out for a game, and Bibbles is still dominating the arena.  :)

I guess it has been some time since I said anything about BotS, but unfortunately the news is a little sour.

A month or so ago I was involved in talks with a well known wargaming company that had pretty much agreed to take on BotS, who then up and changed their minds. The amount of counters/sheets etc required to play the game, and the cost for producing said counters/sheets, was the apparent reason for the backflip, but they also decided they wanted to pursue their own gladiator game. I was totally gutted at the decision and remain pretty demoralized. Unfortunately this hasn't helped BotS see print.  :'(

At the moment I remain quite "burnt out" concerning BotS. I have been working on it for so long that it has been really crushing the enjoyment of the game for me and wargaming in general. I still intend on finishing it and seeing it in print somehow, but at the moment I really just need to pull myself out of this black hole. I am trying to game some other things and work on some new projects, to hopefully allow me to return to work on it.

Again thanks for everyone's continual support and interest - I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 08, 2014, 09:58:49 AM
Sorry I'm so late to these posts but somehow I missed it all!

Nice to see Nick and the lads bringing BotS out for a game, and Bibbles is still dominating the arena.  :)

I guess it has been some time since I said anything about BotS, but unfortunately the news is a little sour.

A month or so ago I was involved in talks with a well known wargaming company that had pretty much agreed to take on BotS, who then up and changed their minds. The amount of counters/sheets etc required to play the game, and the cost for producing said counters/sheets, was the apparent reason for the backflip, but they also decided they wanted to pursue their own gladiator game. I was totally gutted at the decision and remain pretty demoralized. Unfortunately this hasn't helped BotS see print.  :'(

At the moment I remain quite "burnt out" concerning BotS. I have been working on it for so long that it has been really crushing the enjoyment of the game for me and wargaming in general. I still intend on finishing it and seeing it in print somehow, but at the moment I really just need to pull myself out of this black hole. I am trying to game some other things and work on some new projects, to hopefully allow me to return to work on it.

Again thanks for everyone's continual support and interest - I really appreciate it.


Sorry to hear about your bad experience Mate.  I've been playing BoTS as a supplemental pickup game at my club over the last few months and in that time, i've cut down on the use of counters by almost half.  If you'd like me to PM you with the details of what I did, just let me know.  But I have to say, the more I've played it, and seen it played, the more convinced I am that it is a pure success.  Perhaps you didnt want to go that route if you could get a publishing deal, but thee really are a lack of gladitorial games on KS, legit ones or fantastic.  There have been one or two, but they seemed to be more focused on selling their minis than in selling their game.  Perhaps if you went a KS route and included paper models of gladiators to get people started, it would be a good way to make your game, and provide some sort of mini to get people started, but not have the hassle of also needing to commission your own line.

In any event, I'm pretty certain I speak for most of the people here, if you need feedback or advice, we're here!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Malamute on September 08, 2014, 10:20:33 AM
Sorry to hear that Frank, Keep the faith Matey ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: rumacara on September 08, 2014, 10:53:22 AM
Sorry for the setback Frank.
Keep trying for i know you will be succeeded in publishing them.
Looking forward for that.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Hu Rhu on September 08, 2014, 11:02:02 AM
Such a shame that all your hard work has not panned out...yet.  These are still the best Gladiator rules I have seen and I am sure that other companies will jump at the chance of publishing them.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 08, 2014, 11:36:43 AM
Keep the faith Matey ;)

If you write it, we will play it  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: axabrax on September 08, 2014, 03:52:44 PM
I could live with it as an entirely digital print and play game. That wouldn't cost you anything, really. Otherwise, I'd go Kickstarter or just keep on pitching it until someone bites.

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Eithriall on September 08, 2014, 09:21:01 PM
Gaaasp !  >:(

I'm very sorry to hear that....Hope they'll bite the dust of the arena when you'll be published. They just didn't grasp the fact you've created the best gladiator fights simulation... :?

Everybody is not so blind !  ;)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Marine0846 on September 09, 2014, 03:45:11 AM
Sorry to hear about all the problems.
Went back a few days ago and read the whole thread again..
Game looks great. Got me started painting on my gladiators.
I know you really don't like the kick start idea.
So what other ways can the game be printed?
If you can and want to say, what is the cost of publishing the game?
I understand if you don't want to say what the cost maybe.
When it comes out, hope it sells like hotcakes and the "well known wargaming company"
can take a flying leap.
I am willing to throw in $100.00 no strings attached, to help you go forward, even if it does not get published.
Any other takers? Or does that sound like a kick starter?























Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Poiter50 on September 09, 2014, 03:58:44 AM
Perhaps look at Lulu.com? My partner has published 2 books, one of poetry and the other of her early life in the Forest of Dean and they have been quite inexpensive. In fact, I think she is now in profit, thanks to some Lulu offers that made bulk purchases available. Her book was an A5 paperback, cost to her was $AUD 3.99, available at $AUD 8.99 plus post for anyone else. Your costs might be higher with more colour but not a lot, I imagine.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on September 09, 2014, 09:15:25 PM
I've been talking to Furt on/off for...sheesh, maybe a year or two now.  I keep encouraging him as best I can!

I do think this game needs to happen, but I also suggested something as simple as a $9.95 PDF version.  If the production of a solid copy is too much to handle or too much money etc...we're gamers.  If we like a game, we'll play it.  I don't think too many people would say "pffft, I have to print sheets! NONSENSE!".

So, in some form or another I do hope BOTS emerges.  On the flip side, a KS would easily raise a good couple thousand ($10K-20K minimum I'd say...) and get you the stuff you need to maybe order a big batch from a small publisher, if that's the route you'd like to go.  It's good stuff, so we're all here to help back you on it.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Hu Rhu on September 10, 2014, 11:22:43 AM
BOTS would be one of the very few KS I would back.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Malamute on September 10, 2014, 12:32:37 PM
BOTS would be one of the very few KS I would back.

Yep, definitely :)
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Monty on September 10, 2014, 06:21:24 PM
I'm very sorry to hear those sad news, Furt.
Actually BotS caught me after having read this threat and I was really keen to get it and play it. Honestly I hope that there'll open another door to publish your work. As for me I have no problem with making the boards or counters myself.
On the hand Diane and Martin from Warbases are incredibly kind and helpful people. Maybe you could ask them whether they could provide MDF counters for a reasonable price. For all my special whishes they did indeed.

Anyway if there's a chance to support BotS then let me know. Although I haven't seen it in reality yet I would appreciate a KS or something like that very much.

Keep calm and carry on!

Good luck
Stefam
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on September 10, 2014, 10:00:08 PM
Yep, I have a buddy who I could convince to do mdf counters as well...let us know if we can help put you in touch with people.  He's a small time producer but you could easily place a large order.  I think Warbases is closer though - save you on shipping.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on September 10, 2014, 10:40:23 PM
Again thanks all for the support. I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and offers - it is very reassuring.  :)

I hold no hard feelings against the gaming company and realize that from a business point of view, BotS was not for them, which is fair enough. It was just disappointing that I thought I was in with a chance to start with. BotS has never and will never be about making money for me (although that would be nice)

I have spoken at length about what form BotS could/would take, Elbows especially, a KS, a real book or even a pdf, but when it all comes down to it I don't feel BotS is polished enough yet. I also refuse to release something I'm not 100% happy with, just for the sake of getting it out there.

As the rules stand, they are heavily playtested, they work and they are most importantly fun, but what needs polishing is the layout, wording and presentation. I am finding writing the rules in a concise and logical manner a daunting task, which I have attempted to complete countless times.  :(

I am also concerned I may never be quite happy enough with what I write, which is worrying. That was something the gaming company could also of rectified for me, taking that element out of my hands.

Again thanks everyone.





Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Elbows on September 11, 2014, 04:45:12 AM
Well I'd guess there is someone around who has experience as a technical editor...and could help you with that.  I experienced the same thing (and still do...) with my only game I've put out.  Constantly questioning the wording, phrasing, and whether or not people figured it out.

At the end of the day, we'll figure it out.  Or we'll game it the way we read it until we figure out otherwise...or we'll pester you with emails until we get an answer.  Think about how many questionable statements are made in rules of every type.  Even the biggest, most well funded companies occasionally type stuff up that is confusing as hell.

Heck I'd even be happy to do some video reviews of the game.  This is the 90% area that so many games seem to get frozen on.  I just powered through it, though I'm still revising and editing my stuff...(one benefit of the PDF release is that you can update it if you use a site like Wargames Vault or something).

Anyway, we're here and the arena sands are pristine...waiting for blood!
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: NurgleHH on September 11, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
Hey Furt,
There is Really no Reason to give up. Sell this beautiful Rules via wargames vault, make more Promotion on Forums. It is to good to give up.
And I think every Project will have These Point of "Black hole".

Come on, a Lot of Fans beliefe in your work.
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Mookiefer on October 27, 2014, 08:12:01 PM
Hi Furt,

I can't wait to see this game. Kickstarter or print and play with Wargames Vault are both great ideas in my book.

Chris
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: swordman on October 28, 2014, 04:14:32 PM
Chris, I think you're not the only one
Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Furt on October 28, 2014, 07:24:56 PM
Thanks gents.  :)

Keep heart, as I am not giving up, just trying to get over a bump and I have a few cogs turning at the moment.

As Elbows mentioned above, what I really need is an editor or better still someone who is a capable rules writer or technical writer who can help sort out the rules and get it to a finished product.

If anyone knows of someone or is that someone I'd love to have a chat with them. I'm sure there are folk here on LAF up to that challenge.
Title: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 17, 2015, 07:38:42 PM
Took me a while to find this thread, considering how long it's been since I updated it. But I have some news.

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

Today I signed a contract to see Blood on the Sands published.

It's been a LONG haul and there is a lot of work to be done, but it is happening.

More info to follow.

Time to lay down.  o_o  o_o  o_o

Title: Re: Gladiator bouts: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Bots Covers
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 17, 2015, 07:52:45 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Captain Blood on March 17, 2015, 07:59:43 PM
Congratulations Frank. Well deserved  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mason on March 17, 2015, 09:02:28 PM
Great news!

Well done, mate.
 :)

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr DeAth on March 17, 2015, 09:15:37 PM
Brilliant news!

Now . . .

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/21/1512_17_03_15_10_13_51.jpg)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: NurgleHH on March 17, 2015, 09:35:14 PM
Great to hear it. It shows, that it is important not to give up and fight for your projects. Hope to hear in the short future, where i have to send my order to.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: WillieB on March 18, 2015, 07:12:54 AM
Great news Frank!
I'll be one of the first to buy a copy of what I feel may be the best gladiator rule set ever.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on March 18, 2015, 10:18:01 AM
Congratulations Frank. Well deserved  :)

Seconded, fantastic news, I am very, very pleased for you. :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Ray Earle on March 18, 2015, 10:28:36 AM
Great news.  :D

Well done.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on March 18, 2015, 11:54:20 AM
Excellent news, and some I shall spread to the adoring fans who've playtested it with me!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: swordman on March 18, 2015, 01:58:54 PM
at last, good news!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 18, 2015, 03:35:54 PM
Congrats, Frank, wholeheartedly. :)

I know you went to great lengths writing these rules, and you were certainly way too tough on yourself while finding the 'right' shape. So it's good to know that finally someone's willing to honour your hard work and adopt the rules for publication.
Even judged by early drafts (sorry for being such an awfully lazy playtester…) they were highly enjoyable, and there's a lot of potential.

Hope they will run well for you and your publisher. Well deserved.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on March 18, 2015, 04:07:35 PM
Great news ! ...but I can't really tell that I'm surprised.  :D

Now, as Dr. De'Ath said :
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/21/1512_17_03_15_10_13_51.jpg)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 18, 2015, 10:26:47 PM
WOO HOO!  That's great news!!!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Rhubarb633 on March 19, 2015, 08:47:53 PM
Best news I read all week! Congrats and well done Frank.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 20, 2015, 11:32:08 PM
Thank you everyone for all the kind words.  :)

Without the support and assistance of all the quality folk here on the Lead Adventure Forum, I fear none of this would ever have been possible. I will remain eternally grateful for everyone who has ever read this post and commented in it, or dropped me a pm here, or on my blog, with words of encouragement; let alone those who actually play-tested the rules for me (with copious amounts of cardboard chits and empty ink cartridges), suggesting changes and improvements to help better game play.

In particular I must thank Dr Mathias again, for without his wonderful artwork, BotS would never have gathered as much interest as it has. At this time the good Dr's art will make an appearance in the final product, with the good news being that hopefully he will gain a commission for some more stuff in the near future.

There are others who deserve a personal mention as well, but I think it best that I contact them in private.  :)

The publisher has some nice things planned for BotS and we still don't know what the final product will consist of exactly. Be assured that the game will remain true to my original concept, but will be presented in a much more polished and playable format.

Again thanks LAF.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Constable Bertrand on March 21, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Well done Frank! Awesome news, and duly deserved :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on March 22, 2015, 12:36:26 PM
The one time I playtested this a for a few games I was blown away by how deeply interesting you managed to make a single combat game! I would love a fantasy themed spin-off as well.  :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 23, 2015, 07:43:56 PM
Nice one Frank  8) 8) 8)

pm inbound.

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: axabrax on March 24, 2015, 02:48:26 PM
Awesome! I actually had an arena built specifically with the goal of playing this game, so I'm glad it's coming out  :) Please tell me that it's going to remain a miniatures game, and please tell me the scale is going to remain at 28mm!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 25, 2015, 11:16:02 PM
Again thanks gents.  :)

Awesome! I actually had an arena built specifically with the goal of playing this game, so I'm glad it's coming out  :) Please tell me that it's going to remain a miniatures game, and please tell me the scale is going to remain at 28mm!

It will certainly remain a miniatures game, but we are not entirely sure yet how complete the game components will be. There are discussions about providing miniatures and everything else required to play, in a board game type setup. Of course there will be nothing stopping us war gamers from being able to use our own toys and terrain, of the scale we choose.  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Justin Buck on March 27, 2015, 06:07:02 AM
That is great news! I've been envious of everyone who has been play testing the rules.  Now I get a chance to throw my hat into the ring!  Any idea of a time frame why they might be out?

Justin
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: WillieB on March 27, 2015, 08:56:14 AM
Furt,

Can't tell you how happy I am to hear that you've finally made it. Big congrats!
If bringing it out complete with miniatures would prove too expensive or too time consuming consider doing it without.
There are already quite a few 28mm (and other scale as well) gladiator figures on the market.
I know that many are a bit  of a 'fantasy' type without much regard to historical accuracy, but we're getting there. The latest four packs by Paul Hicks are quite good with just a few minor details -probably- not exactly right.

My advice is that if you do decide to bring out your own accompanying range of figures to stay in the 28mm scale, and at first restrict yourself to the basic ones ( Murmillo, Thraex, Secutor, Hoplomachus, Retiarius, Provocator) Known details are good for these 6 types. Possibly a few different poses? Later on you can add the more 'exotic' ones like the Laquearius, Dimachaerus, Arbelas, Cruppelarius and so on.
Oh, and if you ever commission a Dimachaerus ask the sculptor to give him 2 curved knives à là sica.  :D

Wishing you all the best with this venture Furt and hopefully I'll be able to buy your game soon!

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Constable Bertrand on March 28, 2015, 03:13:10 AM
Go deluxe with some cheap bendy plastic Boardgame figures as "inspiration" perhaps, otherwise what's wrong with piece of card in a plastic holder? Worked fine for most of my childhood.  :)

Focus on the rules furt, and box art/packaging/stat cards. :D

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: rumacara on March 28, 2015, 04:23:04 PM
Wow, i was away for some weeks and when i returned i saw this thread with a great news.
Congratulations Frank. You did it. :)
Looking forward to be abble to buy the game.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Hu Rhu on March 30, 2015, 08:54:44 AM
This is fantastic news - Well done Frank.  can't wait to get my hands on a set of the published rules.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on April 15, 2015, 11:08:46 PM
Again thanks gents.  :)

It will certainly remain a miniatures game, but we are not entirely sure yet how complete the game components will be. There are discussions about providing miniatures and everything else required to play, in a board game type setup. Of course there will be nothing stopping us war gamers from being able to use our own toys and terrain, of the scale we choose.  :)


If a full-on board game option doesn't come to fruition I think a full rules set (cards, etc...maybe some dice) would be perfect, and if a Kickstarter happens I'd suggest simply teaming up with someone who produces (or wants to produce) a line of gladiator miniatures.  Win-win.  I'd guess nearly half of your potential sales will be people who already have a bunch of painted gladiators, so I think two options may be a good way to go (one fully loaded, one just rules?).

Can't wait to see what you do from here.  I've been so busy changing stuff in my own life I haven't touched a paintbrush this year!  I need some more motivation to paint some gladiators.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 16, 2015, 10:11:09 AM
Sorry missed the latest posts here.

Thanks again everyone for the well wishes - it is much appreciated.  :)

The decision to include miniatures is no longer my decision alone. It is a real dilemma considering the "for or against" argument of providing miniatures or not.

Rest assured everything is being considered, from metal miniatures to cardboard standees. But the jury is still out...  :?

The amount of counters etc is also being revised, with the intent to reduce and improve this component of the game.

We have also considered the option of a game with the lot, and a cut down version with rules and sheets etc. Again not an easy decision.

I have total faith that my publisher will make the right decisions for BotS. He is both an avid wargamer and boardgamer so has a good grasp of what is expected.

I received a production schedule yesterday, which was very exciting and daunting to boot. Now I remember why I got cold feet facing this all alone.  :o  :o  :o

Things should start heating up later in the year for BotS, but the game is still a little way off.

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 16, 2015, 10:24:32 AM
Can't wait to see what you do from here.  I've been so busy changing stuff in my own life I haven't touched a paintbrush this year!  I need some more motivation to paint some gladiators.

I have noticed a distinct lack of posts from you Elbows - real life can suck can't it?

In regard to your gladiator miniatures, you already have such a lovely ludus, I should use your hiatus to try and catch up!!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on April 16, 2015, 03:32:37 PM
I have total faith that my publisher will make the right decisions for BotS. He is both an avid wargamer and boardgamer so has a good grasp of what is expected.

Sure you can do a "lighter version" for wargamers with rules, sheets and tokens only....but if your publisher is involved in board games, I'm sure he knows there's an audience out there for board games with a lot of stuff in the box and minis...it's fashionable since a few years and the rise of the crowd-funding.

A board game could touch a larger population (Gladiators have a strong selling potential) and in my opinion, BotS is calibrate for that kind of game...a complete game in a box. Rules are really good and fun, coupled with a nice board and "killing" historical minis, it could really be the greatest gladiator game ever...But keepin' in mind boards and minis are expensive stuffs to produce.

And of course I'm serious.

Wish you the best Frank...Whatever will be the final format, this game really deserved to be published.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 18, 2015, 07:08:44 AM
Thanks Eithriall, your support is appreciated mate.

Miniatures are certainly expensive and with such a vast selection already available it becomes a real dilemma.

My biggest fear is ousting any wargamers that only want the rules, but really the game was never going to cut it as a rulebook only.

Hopefully the quality and design of the components will warrant the purchase.  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: NurgleHH on April 18, 2015, 08:13:25 AM
I want the Game, in a Box will be a Bonus for me. Rules only is Not the Option, like you Hand Said it before. So I have to take it complete.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on May 04, 2015, 10:01:58 AM
2 hours reading this thread😁 embarkingon vladiators myself now and watching this thread keenly for release dates as gladiator rules seem to be a bit of a holy grail😋😋
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on May 04, 2015, 05:12:07 PM
Welcome aboard....  :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 04, 2015, 05:24:45 PM
We're playing again tomorrow night  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on May 04, 2015, 06:42:05 PM
We're playing again tomorrow night  :D

cheers

James


Thanks Ethiriall, and Jim you git! ;D :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 04, 2015, 07:14:07 PM
and Jim you git! ;D :D

Yup  :D

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on May 05, 2015, 07:20:09 AM
Yup  :D



 lol I have 13 gladiators and counting painted up, addictive aren't they by time I have them all done appears out of nowhere I will have 40+  :o. Nice and easy to paint though :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 05, 2015, 07:59:44 AM
We're playing again tomorrow night  :D

cheers

James

Its true we are and James is a Git :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Ray Earle on May 05, 2015, 08:56:18 AM
Its true we are and James is a Git :D

Goes without saying.  ;)

Hope to see an AAR. Thumbs at the ready.  :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 05, 2015, 11:34:11 AM
Thumbs at the ready.  :D

Up or down though, that's the question  :D

And I'm not a git  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on May 05, 2015, 11:36:25 AM
Up or down though, that's the question  :D

And I'm not a git  ;D

cheers

James

I meant to prefix that with Lucky  lol ;D :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 06, 2015, 08:31:25 AM
2 hours reading this thread😁 embarkingon vladiators myself now and watching this thread keenly for release dates as gladiator rules seem to be a bit of a holy grail😋😋

The holy grail of gladiator rules is exactly what started this whole thing in the first place - not saying that's what BotS is, but it is what prompted me to pursue a gladiator game of my own; something that felt like you were fighting an actual match.

We're playing again tomorrow night  :D

I really need to get you gents an updated rules document. There has been a few significant changes since you last entered the arena, including an edit of the campaign rules.

The publisher and his playtesters ran an EIGHT player campaign, something I never envisioned possible, and shed some light on issues facing a larger number of players. They of course had to play simultaneous matches to get through a campaign turn, running 2 or 3 boards at a time. They even had an online Campaign tracker, that may actually become a feature that will become available to others.

At the very moment we are discussing our different options to measure Fatigue and a redesign of the gladiator playsheet.

Its true we are and James is a Git :D

Hang on what happened to the infamous "Bibbles the Flos"?  :o  :o  :o

"James the Lucky Git" does have a certain ring to it although...
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mason on May 06, 2015, 08:33:45 AM
"James the Lucky Git" does have a certain ring to it although...

Cant say that I have ever heard him called 'Lucky' before..... :D

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on May 06, 2015, 06:22:27 PM
The publisher and his playtesters ran an EIGHT player campaign, something I never envisioned possible, and shed some light on issues facing a larger number of players. They of course had to play simultaneous matches to get through a campaign turn, running 2 or 3 boards at a time. They even had an online Campaign tracker, that may actually become a feature that will become available to others.

Great !  :o
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 06, 2015, 06:50:04 PM
Well, I carefully packed my figures, loaded ten into the car, drow the harrowing 20minute journey to Nicks only to find that my time had been wasted and that sat down and battered all evening  lol

Sorry Frank, we will play again soon  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 06, 2015, 08:47:14 PM
Well, I carefully packed my figures, loaded ten into the car, drow the harrowing 20minute journey to Nicks only to find that my time had been wasted and that sat down and battered all evening  lol

Sorry Frank, we will play again soon  :)

cheers

James

Having a spot of bother with your spellchecker again are you?

Drow the harrowing?
That sat down and battered all evening?

 lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Poiter50 on May 07, 2015, 01:36:50 AM
Yep, I wondered what he was smoking or drinking? lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on May 07, 2015, 07:57:42 AM
I understood every word James said....honest Guv ;D

I have 17 gladiators painted now and counting, an order of 15 more on its way from North Star/Brigade games, really nice and easy to paint though halfway through Sparticus season 2 and not sure whether it is the lustful antics on screen or the lashings of blood that are spurring the painting ;D lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 07, 2015, 08:42:03 AM
Ah shit, that's terrible  lol

I'll start again...

We didn't play  ;D

Large thumbs, small touch screen, dodgy spellchecker, not my fault  ;)

cheers

James 
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 07, 2015, 08:53:44 AM
We didn't play  ;D

Yeah I got the general gist of that. I have experienced James' tablet "talk" before - it's like another language.

I have 17 gladiators painted now and counting, an order of 15 more on its way from North Star/Brigade games, really nice and easy to paint though halfway through Sparticus season 2 and not sure whether it is the lustful antics on screen or the lashings of blood that are spurring the painting ;D lol

Collecting gladiators can get a little addictive, although you really only require 6 to play BotS. Where can we see your ludus Lowtardog?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on May 09, 2015, 12:14:52 PM
Spartacus is a damn fine show, and the inspiration for my own ludus! Lack of a good game convinced me to sell them off, but now with this.coming out, I may just go ahead and do the 54mm sculpts I've been dreaming of... Base models from Bronze Age, and my own clumsy details.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on May 11, 2015, 01:56:58 AM
Spartacus the first season is excellent, followed by the excellent prequel half-season (part two).

However I lost my interest in the last two seasons...when the characters changed and it was no longer gladiator based.  Also by that point most of the best acting talent was killed off.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on May 11, 2015, 12:39:49 PM
My wife didn't enjoy the last 2 seasons either, mostly due to Andy dying and a new actor taking over as Spartacus. I still enjoyed them, but Season 1 is by far the best.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 12, 2015, 09:50:39 PM
The two great houses of Malamutius Calvus and Medicus Mortem met tonight and decided to favour honoured guests with two matched pairs: Thraex Vs Myrmillo and Myrmillo Vs Hoplomachus.

The Thraex Vs Myrmillo was a long drawn out fight with the Thraex being forced to surrender after becoming exhausted due to sustained injuries and much bleeding. The Myrmillo was almost at the point of exhaustion too but was lucky with having a higher stamina (level four). The crowd were happy with the match and granted Missio to the Thraex.

The second match was a quick, brutal and bloody affair. The Hoplomachus  gained the upper hand early with a couple of well timed jabs with his spear, resulting in wounds for the Myrmillo. But out of nowhere the Myrmillo replied with several well timed attacks and two wounds to the stomach of the Hoplomachus. Two stumble rolls later and the Hoplomachus lay dead stabbed in the vitals in front of the stunned crowd who expected to see a repeat of the first bout.

1-1 draw at the end of the evening. Both Houses were content, especially after pizza and home made gelato. ;D

Still loving the game Frank,hugely enjoyable. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr DeAth on May 13, 2015, 09:19:57 AM
The two great houses of Malamutius Calvus and Medicus Mortem met tonight and decided to favour honoured guests with two matched pairs: Thraex Vs Myrmillo and Myrmillo Vs Hoplomachus.

The Thraex Vs Myrmillo was a long drawn out fight with the Thraex being forced to surrender after becoming exhausted due to sustained injuries and much bleeding. The Myrmillo was almost at the point of exhaustion too but was lucky with having a higher stamina (level four). The crowd were happy with the match and granted Missio to the Thraex.

The second match was a quick, brutal and bloody affair. The Hoplomachus  gained the upper hand early with a couple of well timed jabs with his spear, resulting in wounds for the Myrmillo. But out of nowhere the Myrmillo replied with several well timed attacks and two wounds to the stomach of the Hoplomachus. Two stumble rolls later and the Hoplomachus lay dead stabbed in the vitals in front of the stunned crowd who expected to see a repeat of the first bout.

1-1 draw at the end of the evening. Both Houses were content, especially after pizza and home made gelato. ;D

Still loving the game Frank,hugely enjoyable. :) :) :)

Two good games.  I was pleasantly surprised how quickly the rules came back to mind given we've had a prolonged break from the them; sign of a good set of rules!

Ice cream was good too, chocolate with a dash of expresso, served with fresh strawberries:

MalaGelato, ice cream for the discerning palette
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 13, 2015, 09:34:39 AM
MalaGelato, ice cream for the discerning palette

 ::)

See what happens when I'm not there to 'man it up'  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mason on May 13, 2015, 10:51:57 AM
::)

See what happens when I'm not there to 'man it up'  lol

Dont worry, mate.
At least you had a manly lunch.
 :D

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 13, 2015, 10:59:18 AM
Dont worry, mate.
At least you had a manly lunch.
 :D



Well I suppose the bloke he had lunch with looked like a girl. ;) :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mason on May 13, 2015, 11:34:03 AM
Well I suppose the bloke he had lunch with looked like a girl. ;) :D

Follicle envy is not very becoming in a Lanista, oh Calvus Brevis Unus.
 :D

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 13, 2015, 09:24:23 PM
Still loving the game Frank,hugely enjoyable. :) :) :)

Thanks for sharing gents - that makes me very happy to hear.  :)

There are some considerable changes to the Actions, along with a few other little things like, Heavies now receive a 6 Armour Save to their left leg (thanks to Elbows) and how Fame works for example.

After a few more things are tidied up I'll try to get you the latest version.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 13, 2015, 10:10:52 PM
Looking forward to seeing the changes. :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 13, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
Me too  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Hu Rhu on May 14, 2015, 02:05:50 PM
Ditto
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Justin Buck on November 26, 2015, 02:31:01 AM
Any word on when this would come out? Still kicking myself for not jumping in on the playtesting and can't wait for the rules to come out.

Sorry for the thread necromancy...

Justin
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Vulca on January 21, 2016, 04:11:13 AM
What's up with the posts here? Is there any new info?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 22, 2016, 10:59:02 AM
Furt has been having some issues with the distributor/publisher, they were goading into him turning it into a board game. He wasn't a happy chappy last I spoke to him :(
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Marine0846 on January 22, 2016, 04:24:26 PM
Sorry to hear about more problems with the game.
Could you do a, (dare I use the word) kick starter?
I don't know if this could be of some help, I do know
someone at Mayfair Games.
Just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Justin Buck on January 22, 2016, 07:58:19 PM
I know I would throw in to get a copy.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on January 22, 2016, 08:42:45 PM
Yup kickstarter would work I think
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Vulca on January 23, 2016, 06:50:05 AM
What do you mean a board game? It's a gladiator game. Not monopoly.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: WillieB on January 24, 2016, 10:58:15 AM
Kickstarter +1

Don't let this extremely promising game be ruined by a publisher.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on January 24, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
A great game indeed. Still hoping it will be released someday.

The version I played (a long time ago, to be honest) had a rather boardgamey feel to it: a lot of chits and charts and things happening beside your model arena. It's the best representation of gladiator combat I've come across, regarding historical feel as well as playability. Like with most gladiator games, however, gaming with miniatures is reduced to a (minor) aspect of the whole experience. Based on that I can understand why a potential publisher would want to sell it as a boardgame instead of targeting a niche market in wargaming.

Like said, here's hope that Furt will persevere and score a well-deserved success. :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on January 24, 2016, 04:49:56 PM
I have to agree with MMM, there is no reason anything from the game would be lost if it was published in the same sort of boardgame format as say descent. It could perfectly well skip over models for the gladiators and just use chits. On the other end we could simply replace the pieces with miniatures to our liking and miss nothing.

What do you mean a board game? It's a gladiator game. Not monopoly.

Bit of a oversimplification there mate, saying all boardgames are like monopoly is like equating all miniatures to green army men.  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: rumacara on January 24, 2016, 09:49:21 PM
Kickstarter +2.
Go for it Frank.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on January 24, 2016, 10:52:11 PM
This is indeed a great game, but again, a gladiator game does not require minis. They show up,.move into touch, and then you play the actual.game. The minis add nothing. And this from a confirmed mini addict! I sold my whole ludus after i tried to actually play, and realized the terrible truth.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on January 25, 2016, 01:06:08 AM
Last I spoke to Furt he was a little dismayed with the up and down of the project.  Understandably so as it's a hell of a lot of work putting something like this together.

Having played a lot of BOTS...probably more than most here, it's definitely not 100% suited to being a board game.  That being said, sure you don't need miniatures...but we use miniatures because they're damn cool and any gladiator game would become boring without them.  Add to that I use miniatures and bits to make up all the counters needed, and it's definitely more enjoyable with miniatures.

I do still fully support that this game is absolutely worth a PDF Kickstarter.  Or heck, just a PDF outright.  Polish up anything you're not comfortable with Furt, update stuff with those pretty graphics you showed a while back and sell it for $14.95 on a number of sites and you'll do very very well.

My only other bit of advice - don't hem and haw trying to make it perfect.  It'll never get there.  At some point, just bite the bullet and go.  Gamers will house-rule/fix/figure out anything that ends up wonky.  The game is solid as-is.  I played this just the other week and forgot to post up about it.

(prints up stickers: "B.O.T.S. 2016")
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on January 25, 2016, 01:17:03 AM
You use miniatures in a regular wargame to show movement of units, draw lines of fire, measure charge distances, flank attack, wave pretty banners... ;)

Gladiators move about a bit, then contact, then stand in the same spot while the game gets played. No need to move them, no retreats, or casualty removal, or feigned flight. Just standing, or a shuffle here and there while you imagine the battle, and great gouts of blood and roaring crowds.

Dare I say it, a better subject for a video game...
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: fastolfrus on January 25, 2016, 09:35:19 PM
Would it be worth asking Osprey if they would publish it?
They are putting out a lot of rules at present.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 25, 2016, 09:44:30 PM
Whatever you do Frank, know that myself and my fellow lanistas (Nick and Mark) will support you  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on January 25, 2016, 09:59:56 PM
Would it be worth asking Osprey if they would publish it?
They are putting out a lot of rules at present.

The only problem here is that the standard Osprey rules have to fit into a 68 page book, and unless a special project (ala Frostgrave) they don't include cards etc.  Now, if they offered a bunch of stuff via PDF to back a printed rulebook, I'd be okay with that - but as it stands the project doesn't really fit into the Osprey rapid-fire rules project they've been doing a lot lately.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Justinianus on January 25, 2016, 10:24:31 PM
Hi.  For what it's worth I signed up to LAF after coming across this thread for the primary purpose of learning more about Blood in the Sands.  I'd kickstart a copy if that'd help - indeed, I'm hoping to buy a copy however it eventually gets distributed.  This certainly looks like a great game and I really hope it gets made.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: swordman on January 26, 2016, 09:38:34 AM
if you see the number of people that are following this item, I think that a Kickstarter could be a solution.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: fastolfrus on January 26, 2016, 11:01:05 AM
Why not start with a LAFstarter?
Pitch up a price for pre-orders and see how many LAFers will pay it.
Tell your publishers that you already have xxx number sold before printing and then see what they say?
Doesn't rule out kickstarter, but on here you don't need to give us free stretch goal rewards.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on January 26, 2016, 11:16:45 AM
Guys, we haven't heard from Furt himself since may last year. Lets not get carried away.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands Update
Post by: Furt on January 30, 2016, 10:24:53 AM
Sorry gents for the late reply, but I've been on holidays away from any tech. Special thanks to Elbows for drawing my attention to the posts here.

I think an explanation is LONG over due, something I have truthfully been avoiding for some time, but here goes.

As you can probably guess, unfortunately, the publishing contract for Blood on the Sands did not result in an ideal outcome and I find myself back to square one.  :(

As I had explained in earlier posts the publisher was having troubles determining exactly what type of game BotS is, a "board game" or a "skirmish/war game". Most of the problems stemmed from the campaign system, as thankfully the combat rules are pretty tight. Ultimately the publisher wanted the campaign to be played out in a single sitting, like a board game, rather than the ongoing record keeping style. This was impossible without changing the game play dramatically, something I wasn't willing to compromise on, and that's where things ground to a halt, with us both having different visions for the game and neither of us able to complete his vision alone. In the end we agreed mutually that it was best to abandon the contract.

I'm not happy at all with the disappointing outcome but I understand that it was the right thing for the both of us. The process was not without its benefits although. Both the combat and campaign rules were heavily play tested by the publisher's large group and they tried to break the system in ways I never considered. The combat held up well enough, but the campaign showed big room for improvement, hence the publisher's reluctance to continue along that route. The group offered quite a few good suggestions and gave some very useful feedback.

As many of the play testers here on LAF will agree, BotS really is a bit of a strange beast, that in reality is both board game and wargame. Some dislike the "chits" and counters etc necessary to play the game, but I designed the game that way because a gladiator game with two miniatures on a hex grid, as pointed out in the posts above, can be a pretty simple looking affair. I did try to make BotS as dynamic as I could although and avoid a simple "move into contact and exchange blows until someone dies approach" that many gladiator games adopt.

Regardless I'm back where I started with a half finished game and a lot of work ahead of me if I want to pull it off. When the publisher originally approached me he understood I needed help refining the rules and that is still the case. As the rules stand I don't feel they are even worthy to release as a PDF and the campaign still needs a lot of work. So a Kickstarter won't work unfortunately as the game is not complete and it's really not a money matter.

I am unsure at this stage of the fate of Blood on the Sands.

I am so sorry to disappoint anyone, but no one could be more disappointed than me. It has really put a dampener on the whole hobby and I have even been absent from my beloved LAF of late. Thanks for everyone's continued support of Blood on the Sands, as always it is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mason on January 30, 2016, 10:55:08 AM
Good luck with whichever direction you decide go with it, mate.
It really is a very clever game and deserves a much wider audience.
I am sure there are many on here who feel the same.
 :D

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Hu Rhu on January 30, 2016, 11:03:56 AM
I am sorry to hear of your dilemma. I echo many other LAFers who think that your game is great and would love to see (and support) it in publication.  However until you are satisfied with your product I fully support and sympathise with your dilemma. 

I am sure that if you need further playtesting or rules development, there are many of us who would offer to help you.
Good luck with your fantastic project.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr DeAth on January 30, 2016, 11:38:19 AM
Same about the outcome, but don't give up - you really do have a great game there.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on January 30, 2016, 10:09:57 PM
I'll echo my previous statement: don't aim for 100% perfect, it's a goal you'll never hit...and if you do, you'll change something and be back to 95%.  On the same token, don't put the game up for sale if you're not happy with it.  Find that balance.

I'm still more than willing to playtest more.  If you've revised stuff, and are willing, hit up your old playtesters here and let us know what's changed.  I'm sure we're more than happy to knock out more games and give you more feedback. 
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Vulca on January 31, 2016, 03:30:17 AM
Maybe you need some new play testers as well. Fresh blood with fresh ideas.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on January 31, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
I'm still more than willing to playtest more.  If you've revised stuff, and are willing, hit up your old playtesters here and let us know what's changed.  I'm sure we're more than happy to knock out more games and give you more feedback. 
I'm sorry to read this but I agree with Elbows...And perhaps we can help to find another way.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 31, 2016, 12:23:55 PM
Me and the chaps are happy to help play test whatever you have mate  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Lowtardog on January 31, 2016, 12:49:46 PM
Keep plugging away. An option would be to do something similar to DMH

Put out the rules with a league or ladder tourney for scenaios then a second book for campaigns, it couls raise some readies get you your mojo and give plenty of time for looking at your campaign rules
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Sturmpioneer on January 31, 2016, 07:15:49 PM
Maybe some additional help like Alessio Cavatore?  You are so close by the sounds of it that maybe a bit more horsepower will get you there?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: NurgleHH on January 31, 2016, 08:24:15 PM
Don't make it so complicated, Furt. Your game is broken down to a simple base a game with dices, counters and figures. Just call it "a game of heroes in the acient rome with figures, counters and dices" in the subtitle and release it. Sometimes simple is the best. Or is Frostgrave a boardgame - it is played on a board, isn't it?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 02, 2016, 10:30:46 AM
Again thanks for all the support guys - it's much cheaper than therapy.  :)

So I have been thinking - many of you here are responsible for helping me get BotS this far, perhaps I could call on the collected mind-trust that is LAF to nut out some of the inherit problems with the campaign rules.

I'd love, at this stage, to hear your opinions on what you think a gladiator campaign should entail. It would be interesting to hear people's expectations.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: pocoloco on February 02, 2016, 11:11:10 AM
Not familiar with the BotS rules myself (other than what has been shown in this thread) but some general thoughts:

- Death of the gladiator = not necessary to fight to the death every match, for campaign game the last match of the season could be a death match, at least for the higher ranking gladiators. Of course if death occurs in a mid-season match due to injuries, so be it. Perhaps a chance to have a medicus in your team to take care of some of the injuries

- Fame/glory = a trait that increases and decreases during the campaign season, depending how the gladiators fare in their matches. Maybe have a different fame rating for the school itself, this affects the possible winnings the lanista can get from matches?

- injuries = for campaign game, niggling injuries are recorded and affect the traits of the gladiator. Too much similar type of injuries and possible death or something almost as nasty occurs.

- training = gladiators can be trained during the season, either with experience gained from matches or lanista spending his/her hard earned cash from matches
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on February 02, 2016, 11:13:17 AM
For campaign inspiration, watch Season 1 of Spartacus: a shitty Lannista w a poor house and a couple of good fighters, not much influence or draw ( a Fame rating?). As fights are won and/or new recruits become popular and/or successful, both the skills of the fighters increase AND the Fame and influence of the House increase. Better fights, travels to different locales, access to better equipment.

Sudden shocking losses can decrease all these too, as can over-extending your reach by pushing to locales that are beyond your status. FB had a lovely little Spartacus fighting game that sent you all over the Empire, and as you progressed, you went from backwater arenas to fighting in Rome, but the opposition was increasingly tougher, and you could have your House broken by a series of defeats.

So... All that.  ::) ;)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on February 02, 2016, 05:27:04 PM
Furt, I think you have all the right elements in the campaign system.  It actually worked quite well for myself and my buddy.  Some of the tables weren't complete the last time I read through them though.  The key points are pretty spot on though.

Gladiators of high renown often were used to instruct/assist Roman Legions in the remote parts of the Empire...maybe be able to gain a little extra coin/prestige if you volunteer a successful fighter to do so.  You had lady-visits in the tables already so that should remain --- they were frequently used to amuse womenfolk from all the books I've read.  The system should be in depth but not overbearing.

Quick and easy tables, and a quick and easy cheat sheet to hold all of the info.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 03, 2016, 08:44:42 PM
Furt, I think you have all the right elements in the campaign system.  It actually worked quite well for myself and my buddy.  Some of the tables weren't complete the last time I read through them though.  The key points are pretty spot on though.


Thanks Elbows. I am just wondering exactly what people expect from a gladiator campaign. I have come to the realization that there are some inherent problems with getting a "semi-historical" gladiator campaign to work, which I'd be happy to explain. I'd really like to hear people's expectations first.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 03, 2016, 08:54:16 PM
I think from our point of view it was a case of having a 'stables' with key characters that could progress depending on the matches they had. Although we only had a few campaign turns it was quite a choice of whom to match up with whom  :)

I do think that it has to be something that can be left aside for a while as we have used BotS as an interim between our other campaigns.

Possibly two ways of doing it might be beneficial; a quick, minimal paper work version and a full blown essay type. 

I personally would like to see it expanded beyond the stables and include possible street fights between employees but that's just a bit of whimsy.

cheers

James
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: stuuk on February 24, 2016, 07:26:59 PM
Hi all, I joined specifically to post here :)
I've been watching your (somewhat static..!) blog Furt for quite some time.

Sorry to hear that the publishing deal didn't go through. It sounds like he wanted a board game similar to 'Munera' rather than the wargame you've written. Honestly, I would stick it on wargame vault for a fiver and bask in the glory that is 'being published' :)
It's a real shame the experience has put you off - don't let it. Play and enjoy the game you made, and if you never fully finish the campaign system don't worry about it. Many designers say a game is never really finished.

I have been looking for a decent gladiator game for a long time and like you have tried all of them, then wrote my own.
Your game did look very nice though from the snippets of info here - any chance I can get a look?

I can relate quite strongly to your experience as I am designing a boardgame at the moment, which has been a labour or love/hate for about 4 years now and has consumed far, far more of my free time than I ever imagined it would when I started off.
I've actually produced a quite good game (IMHO) but whether or not it will ever see the tender touch of a publisher remains a mystery.
I'd like to it, just to get it 'out there' but in honesty the margins are so low it's not worth the bother monetarily. In fact, were I a professional designer I would have starved long ago. It's is strange though that even having typed that, I'd still quite like to do it..

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Jerekin on February 25, 2016, 09:26:57 PM
Hi guys,
full time lurker here.

I usually avoid to look at this thread, because I just can't bear seeing the pure awesomeness and knowing not being able to play it right now nor in the near future

Your teasing us just to hard and also for to long now. ;D

Well, I have been able to resist for a while now, but it was time to risk a glimpse again.

I mean just bring it on. Time will tell the truth. Just do it. You can still work at it when it is released.
And maybe the potential positive feedback will unravel the knot.

I fully support the idea of a basic campaign mode and a more advanced hardcore one, especially if it makes it easier for you to let it free into the wild.


Now regarding the campaign mode I may be able to bring in some experience.

Must have been about ten years ago, when a friend and I made our own rule system for galdiatorial combat after I read about Blood Bowl in the White Dwarf (I only played Lotr, Heroquest and some RPGs at  that time). To be honest the fighting was totally simple, almost stupid, but the campaign mode and whole smear was godlike. It felt more like a business simulation. Well, maybe it's just nostalgia. I don't know.

Sadly we never wrote something down but the tables (very important imho, more later). It would have been pointless anyway, because one day his mom threw the box with the whole custom rule sets we had written over the years and our self drawn paper miniatures away. Guess she has always disliked the thougt of us sitting in the cellar like vampires at the age of 16. Still hurts d'oh.

I really have no clue anymore, which mechanics we used to simulate the events, only the positive vibes and some pictures in my brain are left. :(

- Personal Avatar Gladiator build with simple point system. Other fighters had random starting attributes
- Slave market with bidding system and AI bidder (with random interest but unlimited money) to stop the not-underdog from always getting la crême de la crême. (AI Cannonfodder participated in the game too). Bididng started with the weakest slaves
- Upkeep
- Betting
- Feinting and Circling before Infight (If it took to long crowd became impatient)
it felt like this game i know from my childhood just with back and forth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHzbL27MSMQ
- Manipulation, intrigue and sabotage (crowd, referee, Arena owner and enemy fighters, poison, countermeasurements and chance to get caught)
- A lot of mighty skills (for the fighters, Trainer and Doc alike). Hard to come buy. Usually attributes and HP were raised.
- Better equipment (represented by cards for nice eye candy) could be bought with money.
- If I remember correctly there was another resource, which gave you access to advanced markets and item shops but you could also buy things with it and it had ingame impact. Dunno maybe it was splitted into warrior fame and honor of the school or sth. I am uncertain. Makes no sense at all as soon as you would spent those points it would lower the ingame impact of honor again. Maybe you could spent it but the once owned maximum just stays valid for those matters and later earned honor gets added as well.
- Big Injury table with a lot of fun impact. The more the marrier. We used D6 for tens and ones.
I know big tables for the game itself are clumsy, BUT it is kinda fire and forgot here. Roll on table after game, then write it on the character sheet, done.
- Same for random start conditions and special pre game events
- Ingame event table with surprises or cards
- Crowd mood triggered another table
- At mood 0 crowd amok table
- Crowd mood carries over to the next game in the same arena.
- Crowd mood and character fame decides about wanting the "coup de grâce". Means the later the game and the more you start loving your character the less dirty it gets. I really like the Idea of a gritty start, where only the strongest survive.
- Acting against crowd lowers fame.
- It seems like I was heavily influences by this one Blood Bowl errata maybe take a look at the rules?
- With advancing campaign Raised hp / endurance leads to longer fights

Some other things who came to my mind. (I know combat is already finished but just pro forma)
- Poker style, Stone Scissor Paper or Stance system. thrusting, hacking, shielding, parrying, dodging, evasive rolls, jumping back, feinting etc. with different damage and hit chance. Weapon bound. Gaming cards would come in nifty I guess.
- More HP Endurance in General would be good to see "impact" unlike rolling until someone dies with one blow. While losing HP Gladiators get weaker. Maybe real time injuries.
- Strike zones
- Weapon attrition and destruction spread across the different tables (even on injury table). If the weapon is broken you would have to run towards an employee into throwing range for new weapon with a chance to receive a free strike.
- A Smith skill could be useful
- Intervening guards
- Manipulating, provoking the Crowd or heating it up through in game maneuvers or special choreography.
- You could write a big table, where you roll each start of a round. Medium rolls would have no effect and the crowd mood would add a malus or bonus. Let's say you roll 3D6 with No effects at 9-13 and crowd mood can range from -3 to +3. Just an example. (Positive effects at 14+)
- Fanblock System with Home crowd. Avatars of War style or a favour System.
- Random background with negative and positive starting traits
- Private shows who generate no income but cost money (and lifes huehue) and raising honor.

I really love the ideas of LeadAsbestos, Elbows and jimbibly. Especially fighting between Hools and Employees, Assassins or something like that would be nice with option to play it out as scenario.

Sorry, nostalgia and excitement overwhelmed me. I hope you can make use of at least some of my points somehow. At the first look it may seem a lot but just get the crowd/fame/honor whatever thing right and give the campaign some depth and make sure there is some varietey in the table results and I am fine with whatever you do.
 ;)

Best regards,

Jerekin

P.S.: God, I created a monster...

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: parcival42 on May 01, 2016, 02:30:56 AM
A fried just showed me Furt's blog today, although I didn't realize it until he scrolled down the page and I saw "Blood in the Sands will be Published!" in big letters!  I was so excited, since after playing one game at a con a few years back I've been chomping at the bit for more.  Then I saw the date, and considered that I haven't seen any updates here on LAF lately.  So as soon as I get home I dig for this thread and find...the publishing deal fell through.   :'(

I'm sure I'm not as disappointed as you are Furt, but I'm certainly sad.  I even saw a giant lot of gladiators on Ebay today that I was going to pick up if your game was actually published and available.

As far as campaign rules, something as simple as a basic advancement system for the gladiators that survive a bout would be fine.  More elaborate and characterful campaign rules would certainly be welcome, but definitely not necessary.

If cash would help the project move along, I'm sure many here would be willing to pay for the playtest/combat rules.  I'd pay $10-15, possibly more, now if you were in need of funds.  I'm in need of great gladiator rules!  ;)  ;D  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on May 27, 2016, 06:28:04 PM
We need to encourage Furt to push this project forward.  It was nearly done...and while it may not be released as a big boxed board game, it would sell like dynamite as a nice quality PDF at the very least.

I have a lot of people continue to ask me about it in person...and I still run it occasionally for folks.

(stamps foot) Furt!  Furt!  Furt! Furt!  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Watts on May 30, 2016, 02:28:06 PM
Furt Furt Furt!

So what is standing in the way of this being released? Mainly funds needed to publish it?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: swordman on May 30, 2016, 04:44:32 PM
Furt!  Furt!  Furt! Furt!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: von Lucky on May 30, 2016, 09:49:46 PM
I obtained my first glatiator miniatures on the weekend at Little Wars Melbourne (thanks Freelancer). So I'm banging my foot too.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: rumacara on May 30, 2016, 10:42:04 PM
Furt!   Furt!   Furt!   Furt!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 31, 2016, 05:37:55 AM
Furt! Furt! Furt! Furt!

Sorry - mob mentality.  ;D

Flattered by the thoughts gents and special thanks to Elbows, BotS' one time biggest fan, but unfortunately BotS is still where it was this time last year.

I personally don't think the game is releasable even in pdf form and my dream of a workable campaign system has been dashed on the rocks too - it is just too difficult to get the game to work as a functional continuing campaign that can be easily played in a realistic time frame. I am just being honest.  :(

It's not a simple matter of funds either - it is more the fact that I am not happy with the draft of the basic rules. God knows I tried.

Last time I discussed BotS on the forum I was looking for help in the hope that someone out there could help me polish up the rules and make them understandable and more clearer. A publisher did jump on board , but instead of getting what I needed, he got visions of grandeur and tried to turn BotS into something it wasn't. Very disheartening when you've worked on something for so long.

If someone has the ability and desire to take my drafts and turn them into a presentable document I'd be willing to talk, but either way its unlikely I have the willpower to nut out the campaign game.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: horridperson on May 31, 2016, 08:36:55 AM
A new thread to discover!  You had me on page one with the beautiful arena and the evocative AAR.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: NurgleHH on May 31, 2016, 09:54:58 AM
Furt, you made it so long, so do the last steps. The Campaign-system could be the next step, but first release the basic game. A all-in-one-solution is not necessary in the moment. The game is great. Maybe a kickstarter? I know, it is becoming a bad word in the moment, but it can solve some financial problems and you can see if the audience is still listening (you understand).
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on May 31, 2016, 11:27:32 AM
If someone has the ability and desire to take my drafts and turn them into a presentable document I'd be willing to talk, but either way its unlikely I have the willpower to nut out the campaign game.

I'd have a hard time imagining that the combined might of LAF together couldn't help you produce the base game at the very least. Which might not be a bad point to stop for a while. Wait and see where the game goes from that point, what the "meta" does. Then, if there is still interest consider the "full" game with campaign an all.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on May 31, 2016, 11:50:48 AM
Hi Frank,

I think the rules were laid out fine in the last draft?

 Perhaps as others have said leave out the campaign rules and just go for the original game as a stand alone Gladiator combat system.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 31, 2016, 03:30:40 PM
Hi Frank,

I think the rules were laid out fine in the last draft?

 Perhaps as others have said leave out the campaign rules and just go for the original game as a stand alone Gladiator combat system.

I agree, I dont think BotS has to have a campaign to be fun.  If it worked out great, but I dont think it's integral to a successful game.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Elbows on May 31, 2016, 06:55:25 PM
I also hope you don't get bogged down in a "reasonable time frame" for the campaign.  It's a campaign, the time is irrelevant!  Last time I was running a campaign with my buddy via Skype we had a good time, just running 2-4 fights per session (some quite quick, others lengthy).  It's been a while since I looked through the campaign stuff but I'd be willing to give another look and provide some more suggestions.

The game is hugely strong on the basic fight - all the other stuff is just icing on the cake.  Where the game doesn't deliver X, Y or Z...I guarantee players will fill in the gaps.  It was only a few games before I started introducing obstacles, the pontus bridge etc.  I think a simple fun campaign framework would be great --- if players want to streamline it or enhance it let them!

Also, nothing stopping you from a good quality first version - (PDF would allow a living rulebook for minor changes) and then a revised 2nd edition in a couple of years if the community brings more insight, more playtesting, more ideas/encouragement.  I'll shoot you an email Furt and see if I can rummage up some ideas/inspiration.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 02, 2016, 12:26:55 AM
A friend and I played a game a couple weeks ago. I've hardly painted a thing in the last year, but I did finish up two gladiators recently after playing the match.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/4060_02_06_16_2_13_32_0.jpg)

We decided on a Thraex vs. Murmillo fight, and rolled abilities. Strangely we both had the average of 3, with the exception of a 5 in Speed for each of us. Pretty even...

I was playing the Thraex and put the hammer on quick (acquiring fatigue), driving the Murmillo up against the wall and scoring a number of minor wounds over a few rounds. There was a range of maneuvers, counters, evades, advanced attacks...

Just when both were feeling the effects of fatigue, the Murmillo thrust in desperation and hit a vein. The Murmillo bounded forward with a shield strike, and the Thraex fell to the ground. He still managed to fend off the blows and get on his feet, and the crowd roared approval. Staggering, exhausted, back to the wall, the Thraex signed for missio, which was granted.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/4060_02_06_16_2_13_32_2.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/25/4060_02_06_16_2_13_32_1.jpg)

Like all my experiences with BotS it was a fun game, tense, and could have gone either way anytime. The fight took slightly over an hour of real time.

BotS has the best 1 vs. 1 mechanics I've seen in a game, and I think it is ready to be released on the public. There's always a second edition anyway!

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on June 02, 2016, 08:32:44 AM
Great report Dr Mathias.  ;D

I wholeheartedly agre with you on its excellent combat system. It's simply brilliant, we have had great fun playing it! :)

Strangely it seems be our winter game of choice, being played mostly then :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 02, 2016, 08:59:33 AM
Like all my experiences with BotS it was a fun game, tense, and could have gone either way anytime.

BotS has the best 1 vs. 1 mechanics I've seen in a game, and I think it is ready to be released on the public. There's always a second edition anyway!

Very much this, when I played Too bo coo he rolled a vastly superior fighter and ended up winning, however there were a couple of times where I ended up trying for a advanced move (a finishing blow even, I believe) that, had the bones fallen a bit more in my favour, would have done his german brute in for.

I really like how in this game there are unfair fights, but never safe fights. The underdog always has a chance, and with luck and smarts might bring down a superior opponent.

on a far more selfish note, I can't wait for this game to get released and some fan to write up a cool Fantasy mod for it. heck I'd love to do it. :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 02, 2016, 09:46:59 AM
Very much this, when I played Too bo coo he rolled a vastly superior fighter and ended up winning, however there were a couple of times where I ended up trying for a advanced move (a finishing blow even, I believe) that, had the bones fallen a bit more in my favour, would have done his german brute in for.

I really like how in this game there are unfair fights, but never safe fights. The underdog always has a chance, and with luck and smarts might bring down a superior opponent.

on a far more selfish note, I can't wait for this game to get released and some fan to write up a cool Fantasy mod for it. heck I'd love to do it. :D

A fine time was had by all! :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 02, 2016, 09:50:19 AM
A fine time was had by all! :D


Indeed, actually now that my schedule is a lot more open we should try for more games soon.  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on June 02, 2016, 10:29:14 AM
Also, nothing stopping you from a good quality first version - (PDF would allow a living rulebook for minor changes) and then a revised 2nd edition in a couple of years if the community brings more insight, more playtesting, more ideas/encouragement.  I'll shoot you an email Furt and see if I can rummage up some ideas/inspiration.

You have always said that Oscar and it was always my original plan for BotS. Please shoot away mate.  :)

I'd have a hard time imagining that the combined might of LAF together couldn't help you produce the base game at the very least. Which might not be a bad point to stop for a while. Wait and see where the game goes from that point, what the "meta" does. Then, if there is still interest consider the "full" game with campaign an all.

I have been thinking along these lines now too YPU and it's what everyone else seems to agree on - maybe BotS can work without a dedicated campaign system. Maybe the combat rules themselves would be enough to get people playing and using them however they like. All the mechanics, like Fame, Wounds etc for a campaign are there, it's more the logistics of what a group does with it.

I think the rules were laid out fine in the last draft?

Thanks Nick. I think players were getting it too actually, without too much clarification, but something in me just expects much more. I guess I don't want to hand anyone something I feel in my mind is an "unfinished" game.

A friend and I played a game a couple weeks ago. I've hardly painted a thing in the last year, but I did finish up two gladiators recently after playing the match.

Thanks for posting that Dr. Mathias. It made my day to see those beautiful miniatures and a game of BotS set up. God knows this thread would not be into the 100,000+ views (crap!) without your input. It's been so long since I just sat down and enjoyed a game of BotS. All the struggles I had with the publisher really took any joy out of the game for me.

Thanks to everyone who has posted a response here - you all give me a little hope.  LAF is such a wonderful place. :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: rumacara on June 02, 2016, 10:50:40 AM
So, can we finally hope to see the game at sales?
I sure would love that. :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Justin Buck on June 02, 2016, 07:37:10 PM
How about this idea.... publish the current rules, as a PDF or whatever, and include the beta campaign rules along with it.  You know how we all are, if given the bare bones we would eventually flesh them out.  Plus a new rule set would generate more interest in the campaign department.

What I'm basically saying is PUBLISH THOSE RULES!  :D

Justin,
Still kicking myself for not jumping on the playtesters bandwagon....
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 04, 2016, 01:16:16 PM
As a friend pointed out yesterday, we could also really use a good post apocalyptic gladiator game. Really Furst I just want you to publish your fantastic base engine so that people can make fan mods for it down the road.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: robh on June 04, 2016, 05:02:44 PM
..... we could also really use a good post apocalyptic gladiator game.......

That would be QWIK no?

I will add my vote to the "pdf now" lobby. Would be 15mm for me but happy to support the game.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 04, 2016, 05:29:17 PM
That would be QWIK no?

I will add my vote to the "pdf now" lobby. Would be 15mm for me but happy to support the game.

I am completely unaware what QWIK is...?

In any case BotS is scale neutral since it uses a hex grid board.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr DeAth on June 04, 2016, 05:36:27 PM
Go ahead and publish - it's a great game and loads of fun
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Comsquare on June 04, 2016, 05:40:14 PM
I am completely unaware what QWIK is...?


It's basically "Jugger", if you know the movie with Rudger Hauer  ;)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 04, 2016, 05:45:57 PM
It's basically "Jugger", if you know the movie with Rudger Hauer  ;)

Ah right, but that's not really one on one gladiatorial combat though. I mean I said it before and I'll say it again, this is the first and only game system I know that succeeds in making one on one "mundane" combat fun and interesting.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on June 05, 2016, 01:43:25 AM
What I'm basically saying is PUBLISH THOSE RULES!  :D

I hear you Justin and Rui.  Thanks guys :)

As a friend pointed out yesterday, we could also really use a good post apocalyptic gladiator game. Really Furst I just want you to publish your fantastic base engine so that people can make fan mods for it down the road.

I have already drafted up some weapons for an apoc version of BotS, along with medieval sword-fighting and basic fantasy. When I designed the weapon stats I did so with the intentions of expanding to non-historic weaponry in the future. So things like chainsaws and heavier more mundane weapons are easily done. In essence weapons are the really only things that change along with the importance of crowd favor. Armor is armor, distinguished by where it covers and how well it covers.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on June 05, 2016, 07:23:42 PM
I have already drafted up some weapons for an apoc version of BotS, along with medieval sword-fighting and basic fantasy. When I designed the weapon stats I did so with the intentions of expanding to non-historic weaponry in the future. So things like chainsaws and heavier more mundane weapons are easily done. In essence weapons are the really only things that change along with the importance of crowd favor. Armor is armor, distinguished by where it covers and how well it covers.

That's rather cool!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mindenbrush on June 19, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
Publish the basic rules as a PDF so I have a reason to finish off my gladiators and civilians  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: parcival42 on June 23, 2016, 01:55:36 AM
Yes, please. 

After waiting years, I finally bought about 40 Foundry Gladiators and need a wonderful game to slaughter them in!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on July 21, 2016, 12:18:03 PM
Something else that might be related here, it has become more and more common for companies to publish their games in a "beta" PDF format. Basically a bare bones simple layout version of the game with the intent of doing regular updates to the rules as reactions come in. These days services like wargames-vault allow you to notify al buyers of a product that a new version is available, and also increase the price marginally each step you take towards full product. In these states its commonly accepted that rules are a little less rounded. Campaign rules are ofthen only implemented later on and most rules start of with only with "pre build" set-ups, the feedback on which will hopefully allow the designer to implement an actually thought out and balanced customization later on.

This idea has largely leaked over from computer games, where beta versions and "early access" has been a growing phenomenon for a while now. Gone are the days where we expect to buy a finished product from the get go. There is a creative process where the community is an intrinsic component. You don't need to design in a vacuum and only show your product when its completely done any more.

Now I know you have been testing for a long time now, but what I'm trying to say is that's it acceptable, maybe even encouraged, to ask a small amount of money for the privilege of doing so these days.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mindenbrush on September 11, 2016, 01:04:42 PM
Rules PDF bump
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: ShortscaleDave on May 06, 2017, 08:55:01 AM
Apologies for the bump, and hope Furt does not feel harrassed by this post! 

Short Version: is this likely to be available vefore June (UK Fathers day specifically) and if not the would you be interested in two playtestors, one with minimal wargaming exoerience and an old dad with none at all? Might be useful test to see if total newbs can pick up the rules :)

Long version: i got the bug for looking into gladiator games as a way of getting my Dad into it. He grew up loving the old Swords and Sandals epics, and I don't think he quite understands my hobby (and now career). So I have managed to get a good deal on the Playmobil arena and a load of 54mm plastic gladiators. I'm going to make a hex mat for the arena.

The only thing left is the rules to try. I really want rules that capture "feel" as I think that will hook my dad, not dry rolling of dice until one falls down.  I spent a few days reading about every ruleset I could find, and I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Black Hat rules, the free "Familia Gladatoria", and then I doscovered this thread about your game. It sounds perfect.  I would very much like to play this with my dad.  So if it happens to be being released in any form prior to that I'd be excited to hear that!  If not, and if you think two Noobs would be a good playtest experiment, then I would gladly do so, and of course give you a full feedback and report on how well we picked up the rules.  Hope that doesn't sound cheeky, and absolutely no offence taken if the answer is no :). Either way if this ever is released you have another avid customer :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: ColinOfCreatioGames on February 14, 2022, 05:36:21 PM
Though a fascinated latecomer, I just wanted to express my sadness at the apparent petrification of Blood on the Sands...

Or, like a phoenix from bitter ashes, is there a chance that a rules set might arise? One can hope!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 14, 2022, 08:04:47 PM
I'm so flattered that BotS still holds some people's interest.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but I am working on BotS again at the moment. I do feel the rules have aged somewhat and I'm trying to bring them in line with more modern rulesets.

I may ask for playtesters if anyone is interested when I have something worth testing.

Again thanks all.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on February 14, 2022, 08:07:49 PM
I only ever got 1 playtest of BotS in way back, but its stuck with me as one of the best 1v1 combat games I've seen. The dice pools had us at the edge of our seats continually and there were multiple reversals in the game where things could have gone very differently. I played with a friend on here so never had full access to the game but still remember it fondly.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 14, 2022, 08:24:53 PM
Thanks YPU - I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: LeadAsbestos on February 14, 2022, 09:02:37 PM
Wonderful news! In January, I bought back my gladiators after their 7 years exile overseas with another Lanista. At the same time, out came the old copy of Blood on the Sands. Still a fine game!

But, if there are rules to be tested, consider me a willing volunteer. I still have my homemade dice and counters somewhere...

Hope this pans out. The best gladiator game I've ever played.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: NurgleHH on February 14, 2022, 09:18:50 PM
I'm so flattered that BotS still holds some people's interest.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but I am working on BotS again at the moment. I do feel the rules have aged somewhat and I'm trying to bring them in line with more modern rulesets.

I may ask for playtesters if anyone is interested when I have something worth testing.

Again thanks all.
Wonderful news, I never believed in this. Hope you will release it in 2022.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 15, 2022, 01:41:56 AM
I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but I am working on BotS again at the moment. I do feel the rules have aged somewhat and I'm trying to bring them in line with more modern rulesets.

Good news to me, I spent a lot of time on the gladiator sheets!

Plus its an ace game :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 15, 2022, 02:01:42 AM
Thanks all.

Good news to me, I spent a lot of time on the gladiator sheets!

Plus its an ace game :)

And yes you certainly did Matt.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 15, 2022, 07:58:29 AM
Sounds good Frank, put us down for playtesting again please  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on February 15, 2022, 08:56:05 AM
Very happy to playtest when it is ready.

Mt regualr opponent and I both really like the idea of gladiator games but are yet to find one that hits the spot. From what I see on this thread BotS might just be the one.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on February 15, 2022, 09:36:41 AM
I'm so flattered that BotS still holds some people's interest.

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but I am working on BotS again at the moment. I do feel the rules have aged somewhat and I'm trying to bring them in line with more modern rulesets.

I may ask for playtesters if anyone is interested when I have something worth testing.

Again thanks all.

Loved playing it in its early playtest days and would love to be involved again. It was and still is a terrific game. Glad to see it coming back!

I went back through the thread and hcuckled to myself at the House of Spoon, Bibbles the Floss and Malamuticas Calvus lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2022, 10:32:56 AM
Resurgam

8)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Darkson71 on February 15, 2022, 10:51:51 AM
I can't 100% commit to helping with playtesting right now, but when its ready im willing to help if i can - aa few of us at our local club recently got Sons of Mars, and enjoyed it, but it has a few niggles and sounds like its not being worked on, so if another game can fill its spot...
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: has.been on February 15, 2022, 07:00:41 PM
I'm willing to chuck in my two penny-worth for play testing.
I need a fun/good Gladiatorial game for the School club.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 15, 2022, 08:35:50 PM
Again, all this support is comforting.  :)

Loved playing it in its early playtest days and would love to be involved again. It was and still is a terrific game. Glad to see it coming back!

I went back through the thread and hcuckled to myself at the House of Spoon, Bibbles the Floss and Malamuticas Calvus lol

Some great memories there for sure, even for me, and I wasn't even there!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Malamute on February 16, 2022, 08:22:29 AM


Some great memories there for sure, even for me, and I wasn't even there!

One day Eh Frank? One Day! :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: ColinOfCreatioGames on February 16, 2022, 08:36:15 AM
@Frank, my game group is definitely up for playtesting. Some interesting cupro-nickel miniatures came in that need a good bashing.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: ColinOfCreatioGames on February 16, 2022, 08:39:28 AM
I don't want to get anyone's hopes up but I am working on BotS again at the moment. I do feel the rules have aged somewhat and I'm trying to bring them in line with more modern rulesets.
I may ask for playtesters if anyone is interested when I have something worth testing.

Any time frame you can give for the playtesting?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 16, 2022, 08:52:07 AM
One day Eh Frank? One Day! :)

I will hold you to that mate.  :)

@Frank, my game group is definitely up for playtesting. Some interesting cupro-nickel miniatures came in that need a good bashing.

What's a "cupro-nickel miniatures"?

Any time frame you can give for the playtesting?

Are u serious Colin? You realise this thread was started in 2013 right?  ;D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: ColinOfCreatioGames on February 16, 2022, 09:34:53 AM
The reason I ask is *because* this thread started in 2013!  lol

Cupro-nickel miniatures are those made of a copper-nickel alloy. Like the metal used for coins, not a soft metal like a typical game mini. I really like them.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mindenbrush on February 16, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Add me to the list of possible playtesters please, I have all the Crusader Miniatures painted and based, even have a partially built arena somewhere in the basement.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Hu Rhu on February 18, 2022, 10:56:35 AM
Definitely up for playtesting.  My 54mm gladiators and arena need resurrecting and I liked your first set of rules.  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on February 18, 2022, 07:35:14 PM
Thanks. Noted gents.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 09, 2022, 12:31:54 PM
Interested parties Pm'ed.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Mindenbrush on March 09, 2022, 03:28:45 PM
I have replied.
Graham Wilkinson
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Hu Rhu on March 18, 2022, 05:21:29 PM
Frank,

Comments sent by email.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 18, 2022, 09:16:44 PM
Received Gary - thanks for the great feedback. I'm replying by email.

Just to reiterate, because I don't think I've made it very clear, the current play test doc has all campaign elements omitted at this point.  It is a showcase of the basic mechanics only.

Campaign stuff will follow shortly hopefully.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 27, 2022, 10:22:17 AM
Played a couple of games with the Little Fish today and detailed comments to follow (directly to Frank) once I've had a few more games next weekend against different opponents.

General impressions:

 :) I like it! In a weird way, it's almost like test cricket in that it's a good tactical game where even if it looks like not much is happening there is usually something going on in the background and when it ramps up it is quick, decisive and devastating.

 :) The action dice management mechanism works really well. Plenty of decision making throughout the game.

 :) Traits work well and stop gladiator being 'cookie cutter' playing pieces with no individual character.

 :) Fatigue management is key and gives players things to think about other than attacking and defending (only) as is the case in some gladiator rules.

 ;) Using 'normal' dice was not a hassle at all, A few turns in we all had it memorized.

 :-I Gladiator ethnic origins are great fun, but don't seem to have any in game effects.

We played two games. The first was a Murmillo vs Thraex match up with the Little Fish (Aged 11 and 9) in charge.

It started off slowly with back-and-forth probes, a few attempts at special attacks and plenty of breathers from the big men. After a while a few hits started landing and minor wounds began to accrue. The crowd loved it and rewards the Murmillo's showmanship with a couple of favour tokens. In the last turn a burst of energy (and high rolling) saw the big shield man take the initiative and sucker the Thracian in with a heavy blow to the head that had the claret flowing and would have finished him if it wasn't for his crest absorbing some of the blow. The ringside crowd went berserk - this was his third wound so next turn he'd be down an action dice. But by giving into hate (and headache) the sica artist slipped past his opponent's ever-heavier shield and followed through with a savage chop that almost severed his opponent's shield arm. The Thraex received the plaudits as his opponent bled out.

(http://i.imgur.com/Fo2aBnv.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/Fo2aBnv)
Above: Fighters take position

(http://i.imgur.com/CdUL22j.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/CdUL22j)
Above: Down goes the big man

The next match saw my Hoplomachus take on Mrs Fish's Provocatore. This was a much more mobile match with the gladiators fighting pretty much all over the map and nearly, on a couple of occasions, managing to pin their opponent on the wall. The heavily-armoured Provacatore was a hard nut to injure, despite having plenty of opportunities and making a raft of long range stabs over the course of the bout. By contrast the big man was able to make good use of his 'vigorous' characteristic to manage his fatigue but one turn when he nearly tripped with snake eyes (and lost the rest of his turn) followed by three attacks that all inflicted fatigue saw him hit that magic 'F' on the fatigue track and become markedly less effective. Instead of trying to skewer him which was hard going - even three torso attacks that should have drawn blood were turned aside - the tactic went to trying to run his fatigue down and, not too long after this the tuckered out Provocatore called it a day. The generous crowd, who were getting a bit bored by the lack of blood, called 'missio' and we called it a day.

(http://i.imgur.com/0ARmwUR.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/0ARmwUR)
 Above: Lining up the contest for the second bout

(http://i.imgur.com/ySHI8tz.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/ySHI8tz)
Above: Winner, winner chicken dinner - the lighter equipped man watches his opponent overheat and give up

So, first impressions are very positive and I look forward to more to come with with Retiarius and Secutior action definitely on the cards.


Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 27, 2022, 08:35:53 PM
Great report Muzfish4 and thank you for taking the time. Your setup looks great!  :)

Glad you have enjoyed it so far. Would really like your feedback on the classic retarius vs secutor pairing.

Sounds like you had two very different matches. Any thoughts on the Special Attacks of the classes you did play?

Ethnicity has always been just flavour in BotS but I have toyed with related game mechanics in the past. Unfortunately, it made too many predictable stereotypes in my view but we can revisit the idea again. Any thoughts on what you'd like to see done with it?

There is an update scheduled very soon with campaign rules.

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Rabbitz on March 28, 2022, 12:05:17 AM
This all looks so awesome. 

Really want this game to be completed so we can all experience it. 

My Colosseum stands ready to host games to entertain the Plebs.

Is it too late to get in on play testing?


(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2022/03/83911982-IMG_4629.jpg)

D

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2022/03/52115525-IMG_4608.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2022/03/22457401-IMG_4660.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2022/03/70872484-IMG_4643.jpg)

This image is in no way connected with me begging… or is it?  o_o  :




Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 28, 2022, 01:18:13 AM
Wow!!!  :o :o :o

That is probably one of the nicest arenas builds I have seen to date - beautiful!  :-* :-* :-*

The only issue I have with such an amazing build is playability. Having gamed way too many gladiator matches I can't be bothered reaching into a proper arena anymore so tend to leave the front face off, so it's an open arena. With yours I could learn to live with making an acceptation I think.

Is this all Ian Lovecraft kickstarter stuff? The figures making up the crowd and editor's box are exceptional.

PM incoming Rabbitz.  ;)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 28, 2022, 01:46:29 AM
That's the first build I've seen with a good amount of spectators... really cool.  :-*
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Rabbitz on March 28, 2022, 03:14:36 AM
Wow!!!  :o :o :o

That is probably one of the nicest arenas builds I have seen to date - beautiful!  :-* :-* :-*

The only issue I have with such an amazing build is playability. Having gamed way too many gladiator matches I can't be bothered reaching into a proper arena anymore so tend to leave the front face off, so it's an open arena. With yours I could learn to live with making an acceptation I think.

Is this all Ian Lovecraft kickstarter stuff? The figures making up the crowd and editor's box are exceptional.

PM incoming Rabbitz.  ;)


Thanks.   Yes it’s all Iain Lovecraft stuff.

I built it so it splits in half so essentially it’s the backdrop for two seperate arenas.   ;)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: has.been on March 28, 2022, 06:19:42 AM
VERY impressive. I have been toying with something like the
private arena (the first one he fights in) in the film Spartacus.
Then I would get away from having to do a huge crowd. :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 28, 2022, 07:51:38 AM
Glad my little write up was helpful.

To answer your questions, Frank, the special attacks were generally a pretty good idea and the approach that they are a bit better but come at a cost works really well for trade offs. The big shield boys only tried a couple of shield barges, none of which came off - but the rest were all used regularly. The extended lunge is a huge edge for the Hoplomachus (should the target retreat after this? We ruled they didn't need to as there really wasn't a tussle from which they were drawing back). We did find that if a player rolled several fives they didn't necessarily want to do anything fancy (and costly) so we also house-ruled that if a player wished, they could use a 5 for a normal attack.

As I say above, I'll provide more detailed feedback direct to you as a package after a few more games but another house rule we added was that two of the same dice could be converted into a move - otherwise with some rolls the combatants were only able to stare at each other as nether had a 1 or a 6 in their pool - particularly if they had banked a couple of 2s.

Hope to get a bit more playtesting done this Friday.

@ Rabbitz - That areas is super-impressive. I though I was doing well with a dozen miniatures but that setup is something else.  :o
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 28, 2022, 08:07:57 AM
The extended lunge is a huge edge for the Hoplomachus (should the target retreat after this? We ruled they didn't need to as there really wasn't a tussle from which they were drawing back).

You are exactly right Muzfish4 - they do not suffer withdraw. I've amended the rules to make that clear.

We did find that if a player rolled several fives they didn't necessarily want to do anything fancy (and costly) so we also house-ruled that if a player wished, they could use a 5 for a normal attack.

Another one - forgotten to port over from the original BotS - yes you may "downgrade" a SPECIAL ATTACK! to an ATTACK!. In saying that though, there are a few special attacks with no extra "cost", like the "Driven Attack" and "Aimed Attack", that makes downgrading the dice kinda obsolete.


As I say above, I'll provide more detailed feedback direct to you as a package after a few more games but another house rule we added was that two of the same dice could be converted into a move - otherwise with some rolls the combatants were only able to stare at each other as nether had a 1 or a 6 in their pool - particularly if they had banked a couple of 2s.

I've been toying with the option of allowing a gladiator to spend one of their highest dice as a move dice. Your doubles option is very plausible as well.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 28, 2022, 10:51:34 AM
Thanks, Frank. Good to see that I got more right than wrong and that my suggestions have some merit.

We liked the idea of swapping doubles for a move because if you were fully fit, but rolled badly, you were still able to get about the place at least a little whereas if your pool was reduced due to injury/intimidation/whatever it seemed fair that could impede your ability to move in combat posture to the point of immobility. Little Fish the Elder suggested that doubles be swapped for anything but that seemed a bit much.

I guess the aimed attack and drive attack (and feint) without their downsides are good enough to not need to have the option to substitute a standard attack but I'd suggest not a bad idea to keep it there if, for whatever reason, a gladiator doesn't want to do anything special. though, thinking about it, why not make a heavy strike then? Anyway, all food for thought.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 28, 2022, 11:42:54 AM
We liked the idea of swapping doubles for a move because if you were fully fit, but rolled badly, you were still able to get about the place at least a little whereas if your pool was reduced due to injury/intimidation/whatever it seemed fair that could impede your ability to move in combat posture to the point of immobility. Little Fish the Elder suggested that doubles be swapped for anything but that seemed a bit much.

Do you think allowing this ability to all gladiators takes away from the Quick trait or the Secutor's Chaser trait which both allow you to convert one ACTION Dice to a MANOEUVRE Dice each turn?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 29, 2022, 04:39:45 AM
The main driver behind this on-the-fly change was avoiding having two fully fit fighters just stare at each other in the first couple of turns if they one or both rolled a series of 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s. This happened in both matches to at least one of the fighters. Otherwise they'd pick up a disfavour token through no real fault of their own. Making a player use doubles does burn through their dice pool more quickly and may reduce options but that's a decision they'll have to make to avoid acquiring disfavour.

Haven't played the Secutor yet (Friday should fix that :D) but looking at both the 'Chaser' and 'Quick' trait (none of the fighters we played were quick) which look to be essentially the same I'd suggest this is a bit different from 'doubles to move' in that they'll still have the same number of dice from which to pick and losing any one die to move instead of two doubles is a definite advantage making the traits desirable.

Actually, we found that the 'menacing' was the least useful as it only happens once at the start of the match give an slight advantage in a roll-off and even if you are successful it means that one fighter will have five rather than six action dice which is reasonably easy to manage at the start of things.  All other traits seem to offer either an ongoing edge or a one-off significant advantage (e.g. Son of Fortuna/Nemesis).

Again, I hope this is helpful. I don't want to be nit-picky and want to re-emphasize that the House of Fish enjoyed the game and these comments are supplied in the spirit of playtesting and providing feedback rather than any other motive.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on March 29, 2022, 09:46:03 AM
The main driver behind this on-the-fly change was avoiding having two fully fit fighters just stare at each other in the first couple of turns if they one or both rolled a series of 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s. This happened in both matches to at least one of the fighters. Otherwise they'd pick up a disfavour token through no real fault of their own. Making a player use doubles does burn through their dice pool more quickly and may reduce options but that's a decision they'll have to make to avoid acquiring disfavour.

Will certainly remember this while play testing more. There is also the Rush Attack that includes a move.

Again, I hope this is helpful. I don't want to be nit-picky and want to re-emphasize that the House of Fish enjoyed the game and these comments are supplied in the spirit of playtesting and providing feedback rather than any other motive.

It is all very helpful - please continue. These comments are far from nit-picky and it's exactly the kind of playtesting I like.  :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 01, 2022, 02:17:36 AM
I have printed up everything I need to start some serious "in person" playtesting. Up to now I've used Tabletop Simulator to do a lot of solo testing - it's just more convenient and lets me be at the computer to take notes.

Playtesters should have received v1.1 now - looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjzpwFBF5MDLsPDHgkUgrU6zMdPB54GD_e3TaRFRuMv8C30093rSC6ma_DLv6jBHrLbI-JwY2lOVDkY3wPCegtpcqZySlL7zPEnk6GyEwPXpPmPJV4npNVULuDZ5cq3aBSSxa00sWawNhfHHpeXF4s8Iz5JHq3Z_a1JOSlK7VREBPcepsBzgT-Q5RWYdA/s2048/277544599_5086451151433534_2064481243957366802_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: YPU on April 01, 2022, 08:19:31 AM
So glad to see this taking a new step forwards finally, even if its just the next small playtest update.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: damianlz on April 03, 2022, 08:36:39 AM
I just played 2 games with the venerable Furt himself coaching and another good gamer friend. Stellar 2 games, one defeat due to a lucky first round chest shot and a second  round win due to fatigue. I cannot wait to do this again
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 03, 2022, 09:39:17 AM
So glad to see this taking a new step forwards finally, even if its just the next small playtest update.

Thanks for the support YPU - it is much appreciated mate.

I just played 2 games with the venerable Furt himself coaching and another good gamer friend. Stellar 2 games, one defeat due to a lucky first round chest shot and a second  round win due to fatigue. I cannot wait to do this again

Thanks so much damianlz for being such a gracious host; for the wine, wolf nipple chips and the authentic Roman eating couch.

The pleasure was all mine putting on a couple of demo games for you gents with the added bonus that damianlz and his good friend Ed are proper Roman reenactors, which allowed me to pick their brains.

We had two very different matches. The first between a Thraex and a Murmillo, that saw damienlz's Thraex suffer a devastating deep wound to the torso in the first exchange, which his poor gladiator wore for the rest of the match. The Thraex put up a good fight, considering his wound, but failed to land a blow on Ed's giant German Murmillo. The Murmillo hunted him relentlessly and eventually ended the match with a slow kill wound to the Thraex's torso for a second time, but he was spared by the crowd and granted missio.

The second fight was between two Provocators, one large and a Son of Pluto to boot, meaning his blows would hit home much harder and the other was agile making him harder to hit. The arena was scattered with training posts. Damianlz had a much better run in this combat and the Provocators danced around the obstacles trying to corner each other against them. At one stage Damianlz caught Ed's gladiator against a pole and delivered many punishing attacks against him, which severely fatigue Ed's gladiator. In the end this is what ended the match as Ed's Provocator could stand no more and had to submit exhausted. The fickle crowd shouted for his blood and he was put to the sword.

A great afternoon gaming with great company to boot.

(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/1650-030422092329.jpeg)
damianlz's Thraex facing off with Ed's large and menacing Murmillo.

(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/1650-030422092450.jpeg)
The poor Thraex after suffering a very unlucky and devastating wound in the very first engagement.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 03, 2022, 10:13:48 AM
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/1650-030422100759.jpeg)
Ed's German, unscathed and even in control of his cardio!

(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/54/1650-030422100727.jpeg)
damienlz's Thraex at the end - his shield lost and just before the blow that ended the match.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Golgotha on April 03, 2022, 08:24:34 PM
Looks fantastic Furt - very keen to give these rules a try.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 04, 2022, 07:45:02 AM
I managed three more play test games over the weekend using version 1.0 - would you be interested in a write up of the bouts followed by rules observations/suggestions or are they out-of-date with v1.1?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 04, 2022, 08:37:07 AM
Looks fantastic Furt - very keen to give these rules a try.

Can't wait for you to try them too Golgotha.

I managed three more play test games over the weekend using version 1.0 - would you be interested in a write up of the bouts followed by rules observations/suggestions or are they out-of-date with v1.1?

No please do Muzfish4 - there is not that much that has changed that would make v1.0 obsolete. And three games! Looking forward to reading your write up for sure.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 04, 2022, 10:51:59 AM
Okay, here we go, three matches and how they played out:

Match One


The first match up saw the only two gladiator types I was yet to play, Retiarius  and Secutor (me), hit the arena. The Retiarius was Menacing so tried to turn on the frighteners in Phase Zero with success but temporarily losing one die from a pool of five didn’t really hurt my egg-helmeted contender.

(https://i.imgur.com/Zo95el4.jpg?1)
Above: The fighters square off - the net man is more frightening than he looks

The net man followed this up with a very aggressive series of jabs with his trident managing to inflict a light wound on both the Chaser’s rear arm and head (the helmet saved him from much worse). Interestingly, my first attack was boxcars and in other systems (I’m looking at you, StarGrave) an early arsey roll might decide the matter but here the attack, while having an advantage on the wound roll, didn’t decide the contest before we really started, minor damage to the rear arm.

(https://i.imgur.com/HdRm9bX.jpg?1)
Above: The net (represented by a cheap pentacle jewelry repurposed for pulp gaming) is cast


After that he cast his net and, to be frank, it wasn’t a great cast only inflicting the temporary loss of an action die. This motivated the Secutor who pushed forwards and made sure to keep between the Retiarius and his expended net. Having cast away his net removed two of three special attacks (the extended lunge is still super useful (as is the +2 attack and defend bonus for having a trident) but from here is was a matter of time as the Secutor set himself up every turn to use his dice deliver one substantive attack and manage fatigue. The end came quickly as a gladius stab connected with the already-injured rear arm of the Retiarius and there was indeed blood on the sands. The crowd were merciful and the fighters returned to their pens.

Match two

As we had a bit of time and the FLGS at which we were playing wasn’t closing for a while we had another game, this time big shield man vs small shield (me - don’t mind the Foundry miniature with his too-large shield and Sica). Anyway, this match up saw both fighters beginning the bout keeping well within themselves and trying to get some sort of fatigue edge over their opponent.

(https://i.imgur.com/SPZekQz.jpg?1)
Above:  Set up and no-one is intimidated

At one point the Murmillo elected to use his last die (movement) to step back and force his opponent to burn dice to keep up and attack (or else incur a disfavour token) .

(https://i.imgur.com/XeJdlAu.jpg?1)
Above: Murmillo cedes ground

To counter this, I decided to give the driven attack a work out and managed to back the big man up against the arena wall in what may be the first recorded instance of rope-a-dope.

(https://i.imgur.com/m0m1RdE.jpg?1)
Above: Rope-a-dope

This approach inflicted one wound but with the extra collision rolls a couple of extra fatigues were inflicted and he temporarily lost his grip on his sword. Despite getting this far the Thracian was unable to capitalise on what looked to be a pretty good position.  Then, showing that the run of play can turn very quickly the Murmillo battered his opponent’s shield aside and delivered a very nasty blow to the ‘vitals’. No blow to that region is ever good but unlike David Lloyd (who pretty much made a media career from one such incident) our British gladiator was not to be so fortunate. 

(http://i.imgur.com/86clFHy.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/86clFHy)
Above: The Big Briton goes down with a blow to the cods

The big man from Corstopitum was down and could barely manage to raise a finger for mercy. Snake eyes on the dice so Hermes  Pyschopomos took up his duties as a guide to the underworld as the Murmillo held the field. We thought that this outcome was fair enough as around half the fight was conducted hard by the arena wall so the spectators on the other side missed out on viewing the spectacle.

Match three

This was a day later against a new player who is amassing the southern hemisphere’s biggest Epic collection and, as such, is open to complex rules with a grillion and one exceptions and special cases. We went with the net-and-trident man and chaser.

(http://i.imgur.com/NClpn9I.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/NClpn9I)
Above: the crowd form two factions each behind their man

 This time I was the lighter equipped gladiator and was pretty keen to see how he played. Well, the game went on a fair while. And then some. The Secutor used the feint attack almost exclusively which countered the Retiarius’ Mobile characteristic. After the previous match, I was very reticent to cast his net too early, my basic approach was to try to remove a die with long-range lunges and wear down my opponent’s fatigue to make that all-important cast really count. I also tried my luck with the net trip but in around half a dozen attacks only managed it once and then to little effect as my opponent was on his feet the next turn.

(https://i.imgur.com/lX0F06M.jpg?1)
Above: The Retiarius was chased all over the shop

The Secutor was able to manage his fatigues and chased the netman all over the arena and weathered the light wounds he incurred on the torso (nine out of ten lunges seemed to end up bouncing off the helmet)  and rear leg but was able, after a lot of ineffectual back-and-forth, to get in close and make a mess of the Retiarius’ lead arm for a slow kill. There was claret all over the shop, he has lost his trident and pugio (and an action dice) and it was getting late so up went the finger hoping for mission but the crowd had had enough and didn’t think twice in calling ‘iugula’ for a fighter so inept he didn’t even cast his net.

(https://i.imgur.com/gkEqHSq.jpg?1)
Above: Down and out

I'll post observations/suggestions tomorrow.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 04, 2022, 08:08:38 PM
Okay, here we go, three matches and how they played out:

Great report Muzfish4- really appreciate you going to the effort.

I'll post observations/suggestions tomorrow.

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 05, 2022, 04:16:57 AM
Okay, here we go, three matches and how they played out:

Neat report, and super cool Anubis statues :)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 05, 2022, 10:24:13 AM
Thanks for the kind words. The Anubi statues are from Dark Fable. I purchased them with Wargods and Pulp gaming in mind but they seem to do the trick here as well. Just goes to show, as I often remind the Little Fish, the only miniatures purchase you regret is the one you don’t make.

Anyway, here are some general thoughts with ideas for one larger refinement and one new addition.

Playsheets:


Traits 

Most traits work pretty well and make the combatants individuals and add a lot of tactical flavour and decision making to the game with no significant increase in complexity.
Menacing is probably the least advantageous trait in that it is used once and even if it actually delivers a result it’s pretty small beer compared to other traits that deliver a bonus of some sort on an ongoing basis.

I haven’t played with Driven yet but it also looks to be a one trick pony (albeit a better one than Menacing).

Class traits all work well though I see the Retiarius as being more agile than defensive and might suggest he have the ability to convert one die into a manoeuvre die. Then again, the Secutor is a Chaser so perhaps if the traits were reversed the Chaser would never catch his prey.

Action dice

As suggested previously, when a roll is heavy with one thing but gives no other options the two-for-one (i.e. swap a double for a single die) works well.  We have refined this a little and are of the view that a two-for-one should only be allowed for normal attacks and manoeuvrer dice. We toyed with the idea that three identical dice could be swapped for a special attack but this never came up. May be worth considering?

Fight stuff

Rather than have the attacker spend dice at the beginning to modify their roll we allowed both fighters to spend dice as they liked only stopping when both fighters elected not to spend any more.

Bleed tokens – We’re pretty sure they cannot be removed and will stay with the gladiator for the remainder of the bout – is that correct?

Defence Modifiers – do prone gladiators get the defensive benefit from their shield?

Snake eyes – if a gladiator attacks and rolling snake eyes they have bungled and no attack is delivered does the opponent have to fall back from this non-attack?

Same scores – if attack rolls are equal after modification is the defence successful? We though so but not sure if this is spelled out in the rules.

Common special attacks

I really like the idea that every special attack comes at some sort of cost (another die/fatigue/penalty to hit/wound/whatever) or that a five can be used as a 'normal’attack at the player’s caprice.

Some special attacks are a bit too good without any penalty/associated cost such as driven (should have a penalty – fatigue) and heavy strike (again, needs some sort of cost associated with it).  The feint is also surprisingly effective as it nullifies the banked defensive dice of the defender with no penalty for the attacker. Again, suggest this has a penalty attached, maybe a defensive die?). The aimed attack is also useful (but should not apply to the impartial hit location table – can special attacks be made by a prone gladiator?) but might benefit from the -1 damage modifier. None of us tried disarm but it does look interesting – to confirm do the spear/trident modifiers apply here?

Class specific special attacks

 :) Hoplomachus - works well. To confirm, can the flank attack (which should move the fighter in the direction of their lead arm - not always right arm to accommodate lefties) be performed with either the spear or pugio or is it spear only?

 :) Murmillo/Provacotor – again, works well. With the suggestion above about ’two-for-one’ with action dice could the target of a step inside (also moving to the side of the fighter's leaad arm) elect to lose two dice (including and especially banked defensive dice) or a manoeuvre die to avoid dropping their hafted weapon? Give the mobility required to execute this attack perhaps it could cost the attacker a manoeuvre die?

 :D Thracian – again, flank attack should be in the direction of the lead arm.

 :o Retiarius – These guys are far and away the hardest guys to accommodate in gladiator rules because they’re just so different from every other class of fighter (except that weirdo with the lasso but no-one talks to him). At present the cast net special attack is a bit lacking, I feel as even a good cast can be escaped from pretty quickly and once the net is on the arena floor it’s very difficult to retrieve. As such - and this is my big idea, so please bear with me - a successful cast which gives an ‘entangled’ outcome also gives an entanglement token (1, 2 or 3 depending on the number of action die forfeited) to the victim in the net. As long as the victim is entangled they subtract that number from both their attack and defence rolls.

Thus, if I cast a net at my opponent and get a modified ‘4’ not only do they forfeit two action dice they become ‘entangled 2’ and, as at this point, incur a -2 penalty on all future attack and defence rolls. If next turn they roll one laurel which they use to reclaim a forfeited die then their status goes to ‘entangled 1’. The thinking behind this is rather than just lose some dice the gladiator also has difficulty fighting while caught up in a net and this is the time for the Retiarius to press home an attack – if they’re good enough. I hope this sounds okay. I don’t think this will add to bookkeeping/complexity but it will give the Retiarius that little extra boost to encourage them to really make that cast net count.
 
Okay there are my suggestions for v1.0 of the rules. I hope they’re reasonably clear and very happy to go into further detail/explain what I mean if that would help.

I’ll leave it there for now and cogitate further upon my potential new mechanism suggestion.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 05, 2022, 10:26:29 PM
To save leafing through the rules, it would be useful to have the gladiator special attacks – or at least a precis of them - printed on their playsheet – perhaps in the token box?[/li][/list]

Yeah I have found that myself and made a quick QRS of special attacks for when I've been demoing. I don't think I can get it on the play sheet unfortunately - although that will get a minor redesign soon.

Menacing is probably the least advantageous trait in that it is used once and even if it actually delivers a result it’s pretty small beer compared to other traits that deliver a bonus of some sort on an ongoing basis.

It's been improved from +1 to +2 but as you say it is used only at the beginning. I agree it is not as powerful as some traits but I wasn't looking for the traits to be all balanced. In the first BotS rules you could roll a totally negative trait but have realised that was a little harsh, fun yes, but harsh.

Class traits all work well though I see the Retiarius as being more agile than defensive and might suggest he have the ability to convert one die into a manoeuvre die. Then again, the Secutor is a Chaser so perhaps if the traits were reversed the Chaser would never catch his prey.

Yes the Secutor has to chase the Retiarius so that is the reasoning behind the class traits. The Retiarius has other tricks he can try to keep his distance, namely a Retreat (new to v1.1) and the Extended Lunge.

As suggested previously, when a roll is heavy with one thing but gives no other options the two-for-one (i.e. swap a double for a single die) works well.  We have refined this a little and are of the view that a two-for-one should only be allowed for normal attacks and manoeuvrer dice. We toyed with the idea that three identical dice could be swapped for a special attack but this never came up. May be worth considering?

I'm pretty adverse to implementing a general swapping of dice for another die mechanic. It kinda breaks the whole point rolling the action dice.
I’ve play tested with two different groups now and haven’t encountered that issue. After I showed them a few tricks the play testers were managing their dice pools really effectively figuring out the best combination to achieve the most each turn. There was certainly no passed turns where they were unable to do anything. Yes they would miss an attack opportunity here and there but I see that as a nuance of the game. There is no doubt that a very poor roll could result in a player having to pass that turn (especially if they have reduced action dice) but it should be a pretty rare thing.

If you are running out of Maneuver Dice my first question would be are you converting LAURELs or fervour points into Maneuvers when you need them and also did you take advantage of the Rush Attack (the common Special Attack) that allows you  to close before attacking? This combination generates moves pretty well. A common mistake new players make is to think Laurel or fervour points = attack bonus, end of story. They are far from only that.

Also the fact that you have questioned down grading a Special Attack to a normal Attack seems like an odd request as generally you want all the Special Attacks you can get your hands on.

Rather than have the attacker spend dice at the beginning to modify their roll we allowed both fighters to spend dice as they liked only stopping when both fighters elected not to spend any more.

I can understand why you might want to do that. Again though it seems like you are committing all Laurel Dice to attack bonus dice. I make attackers commit first before rolling to emphasise the possible loss of those Laurel Dice with little gain. I think this is an important choice, rather than just tacking them onto the end of an attack roll. In saying that though it would not be a game breaker to allow that option.

Bleed tokens – We’re pretty sure they cannot be removed and will stay with the gladiator for the remainder of the bout – is that correct?
No there is no way to stop a bleeding wound during the match.

Defence Modifiers – do prone gladiators get the defensive benefit from their shield?

Yes they do.

Snake eyes – if a gladiator attacks and rolling snake eyes they have bungled and no attack is delivered does the opponent have to fall back from this non-attack?

No as the attack never eventuates. but I have put a line in the rules to make that clearer.

Same scores – if attack rolls are equal after modification is the defence successful? We though so but not sure if this is spelled out in the rules.

May be a 1.0v thing as it is definitely in the new version, but yes you are correct, attack must be greater than the defence roll.

Some special attacks are a bit too good without any penalty/associated cost such as driven (should have a penalty – fatigue) and heavy strike (again, needs some sort of cost associated with it).  The feint is also surprisingly effective as it nullifies the banked defensive dice of the defender with no penalty for the attacker. Again, suggest this has a penalty attached, maybe a defensive die?). The aimed attack is also useful (but should not apply to the impartial hit location table – can special attacks be made by a prone gladiator?) but might benefit from the -1 damage modifier. None of us tried disarm but it does look interesting – to confirm do the spear/trident modifiers apply here?

I'm against making all special attacks cost more but this is something that only extensive play testing can prove. The class special attacks all have a cost attached and tend to be a little more powerful in my opinion. The Rush Attack, as mentioned above, is essential in closing with an opponent and hence the attached cost of a fatigue point.


:) Hoplomachus - works well. To confirm, can the flank attack (which should move the fighter in the direction of their lead arm - not always right arm to accommodate lefties) be performed with either the spear or pugio or is it spear only?

Not sure why you would want to do it with the pugio? Pugios are back up weapons which are drawn only if the spear or trident is lost. But to answer your question, what ever the weapon in the lead hand is, which under normal circumstances is the spear. In the report above you also said that the retiarius lost both his trident and his pugio. How exactly did that come about?

:) Murmillo/Provacotor – again, works well. With the suggestion above about ’two-for-one’ with action dice could the target of a step inside (also moving to the side of the fighter's leaad arm) elect to lose two dice (including and especially banked defensive dice) or a manoeuvre die to avoid dropping their hafted weapon? Give the mobility required to execute this attack perhaps it could cost the attacker a manoeuvre die?

I think you might be correct that this special attack is a little too good but will still require playtesting. Also this can now be countered by a DEFENCE Dice, not manoeuvre,  to better suit both the Retiarius and Hoplomachus.

:o Retiarius – These guys are far and away the hardest guys to accommodate in gladiator rules because they’re just so different from every other class of fighter (except that weirdo with the lasso but no-one talks to him). At present the cast net special attack is a bit lacking, I feel as even a good cast can be escaped from pretty quickly and once the net is on the arena floor it’s very difficult to retrieve. As such - and this is my big idea, so please bear with me - a successful cast which gives an ‘entangled’ outcome also gives an entanglement token (1, 2 or 3 depending on the number of action die forfeited) to the victim in the net. As long as the victim is entangled they subtract that number from both their attack and defence rolls.

Firstly I think the net was a pretty ineffective weapon and unlikely to end a fight with the opponent neatly bundled up. I used net tokens the first time around with BotS and have done as much as I could to reduce the large volume of counters used in that version. It worked pretty much as you have mentioned - a negative penalty per net token. I'd be adverse to readopt it but again but more playtesting may prove me wrong.

Thus, if I cast a net at my opponent and get a modified ‘4’ not only do they forfeit two action dice they become ‘entangled 2’ and, as at this point, incur a -2 penalty on all future attack and defence rolls. If next turn they roll one laurel which they use to reclaim a forfeited die then their status goes to ‘entangled 1’. The thinking behind this is rather than just lose some dice the gladiator also has difficulty fighting while caught up in a net and this is the time for the Retiarius to press home an attack – if they’re good enough. I hope this sounds okay. I don’t think this will add to bookkeeping/complexity but it will give the Retiarius that little extra boost to encourage them to really make that cast net count.

Personally I think the loss of dice is a huge penalty in itself and not so trivial. Less dice, less actions - it's a pretty big penalty. Plus the entangle gladiator must spend Laurels to regain the forfeited dice (which come out spent) which is a double whammy that turn. This is when the retiarius needs to make his big move.

Thank you so much again for all the effort you put into this feedback Muzfish4. It is exactly the type of information I need and I will take it all onboard. I'm looking forward to hearing about your thoughts on 1.1v.

Going forward my only critique would be to please try and play the rules as written rather than house ruling during play testing. That is much more helpful to me at the moment.  :)

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 06, 2022, 08:31:14 AM
Hey, Furt. I'm glad this is helpful.  Your responses are very much accepted in the spirit in which my  suggestions were given :)

I have printed out v1.1 and will give that a run this weekend.

Rather than reply to your replies I'll just add a few little bits below.

 :) The idea of 'negative' traits is weirdly attractive. Maybe if fighters had two positive and one negative ...

 :) I really like the Retreat defence die ability. Pretty much nails it then and there.

 :) The Hoplomachus attacking with the pugio was a bit of 'what if' thinking thinking that if a Hoplomachus was disarmed and was using their reserve weapon could they still use the flank attack.

 :) Reading your response really encourages me to re-think my approach to dice management.


My next playthroughs will be with the rules-as-written (i.e. no houseruling it) and I'll let you know how that goes.

I'll hold onto my other big idea for now and concentrate and getting you the most useful playtesting feedback I can.

As ever, really enjoying it and very glad to help out with observations and suggestions to try to contribute to what is already a terrific set of rules.



Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Rabbitz on April 06, 2022, 10:28:47 AM
Really looking forward to giving this a go. 

Excellent write ups so far.   

Once I get out of iso I’ll try to get some games in too.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 07, 2022, 03:36:05 AM
As ever, really enjoying it and very glad to help out with observations and suggestions to try to contribute to what is already a terrific set of rules.

Thanks Muzfish4 I really appreciate that.

Really looking forward to giving this a go. 

Excellent write ups so far.   

Once I get out of iso I’ll try to get some games in too.

That would be great Rabbitz.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 10, 2022, 05:45:49 AM
I uploaded a video to YouTube today with the intentions of doing a few to explain the mechanics of Blood in the Sands. I've never done anything like this before so it's pretty rough. If you want a laugh listening to someone who can barely speak English trying to say some Latin words - please be my guest.  lol

This one is just an introduction but a step towards doing a play through of the new rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WP9KJc9wK8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WP9KJc9wK8)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 11, 2022, 09:26:35 PM
Ive added a second video with a turn example that demonstrates the flow of the game.

https://youtu.be/8TfS3uozjZ8
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 12, 2022, 04:14:16 AM
Excellent stuff - I am referring potential playtesters to these videos so they have an idea of what it's all about before they start.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 12, 2022, 07:52:49 AM
Excellent stuff - I am referring potential playtesters to these videos so they have an idea of what it's all about before they start.

Thanks Muzfish - they are a little long winded, but serve the purpose.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: craigjonwoodfield on April 19, 2022, 05:37:15 AM
Muzfish and I played another game on the weekend. It wasn't very inspiring I am afraid - Retarius vs Secutor, with both combatants eventually dropping from exhaustion after an hour of play. I'm going to jump in early with my comments, which boils down to this - it's a little too hard to wound, and good attack rolls just aren't rewarded. You can roll exceptionally high on your attack, your opponent can roll exceptionally badly, and you will still probably strike an armoured location and bounce, unless you pull off another exceptional roll or even two.

Kind of takes the fun out it. Just about everything else about the game works very well.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on April 19, 2022, 07:05:37 AM
Thanks, Craig. I was just doing my write up now. They follow below:

I managed a couple more one-off games over the Easter weekend. Both used the rules-as-written (i.e. no mods of house rules) and played well but ended in exhaustion for one or both combatants. A precis of the games with comments/suggestions from my opponents is below:

Game one: Thracian vs Murmilla

My opponent here is a bit different to the usual miniatures gamer demographic that he is (primarily) a eurogamer who tends to favour heavier games and, as such, is quiet focused on mechanics and the ‘engine building’ aspect of games. Just for something different we played with female miniatures from Shadowforge.

The game commenced with character creation and, as it happened, the characteristics of both fighters cancelled each other out. My Murmilla was left handed (+1 Attack) and, of course, a real Brute (+1 to wound) while the Parmularia was Resilient (-1 to be wounded) and Agile (+1 defence), so standard combat was, in effect, straight roll-offs. Other characteristics were my being Driven and having the one-off Fervour die and my opponent having the standard Best Defence to convert one action die into an Attack die. After that we rolled the scenario type on the Munus Event table and it was one with obstacles so out came the Anubi statues again.

(https://i.imgur.com/pXl0T9a.jpg)
Above: Fighters face off

Anyway, the match proceeded with plenty of back and forth and attempted attacks of all sorts but no wounds were inflicted. The fighters went across the sands until exhaustion began to take its toll. Plenty of hits went in but were blocked by armour and no blood at all was draw over the course of the match.

Finally the Thracian had a couple of bad turns not rolling a Respite or Laurel die and I managed to inflict a hit causing a fatigue to bump them over up the fatigue track and over the line to being all tuckered out. For my part my Fervour die was hoarded to use as a Respite and I was able to run down my opponent’s fatigue while managing mine. The Thracian collapsed with exhaustion but no wounds. The crowd, unimpressed with this blood-free display, wasted no time in calling Iugula! And that was that.

(https://i.imgur.com/vEC2OcS.jpg)
Above: No sympathy for those who don't draw blood

Observations from my opponent:

1.   The basic game works well and the dice management mechanic is ‘sound’.
2.   The game went for about 75 minutes which is a bit too much for him.
3.   It seemed hard to get wounds on gladiators. He suggested that when an attack roll exceeded a defence roll by a substantial margin it could give a bonus to wound or in determining the area affected.
4.   He found his Best Defence ability to be of marginal use in that there is always a good chance of getting an attack or two in each dice pool.
5.   He was not inclined to allocate Laurel dice to get a +1 attack bonus before rolling as if the roll was low it was seen as a waste when the Laurel could be used for either Respite (as it became a real concern as the game progressed) or a Special Attack which comes with some form of bonus anyway.
6.   The eurogamer in him had him asking if he had six special attacks available and his opponent began the turn next to him could he throw sand six times and if it was successful would he win as his opponent would be bereft of action dice? I read this as a possibility, a possibility that only a cad would take, but it seems to be, on paper, possible. Perhaps have sand throwing limited to once a turn and that it cannot remove a fighter’s final action die?
7.   All that said, he enjoyed it and was very open to playing again.

Game Two: Secutor vs Retiarius

My second match was against an arena veteran (and experienced rules writer); we had both played BotS before but were careful to go over the changes to ensure we played with the rules-as-written.  Snake Eyes determined the Munus Event was Sine Missione so all thought of appeal to the crowd or editor were banished at the onset.

As it happened, it was a matchup between citizens (fitting well with the Sine Missione theme) my chaser was a starving veteran while the net-and-trident man has an Equestrian slumming it on the sands.  Interesting.  My chap had a lot going on with his die pool in that he was Vigorous (change one action die to Respite) and was also Indefatigable so could return two temporally forfeited dice to his pool of one Laurel die. He also had the standard Chaser skill and could convert one action die to Manoeuvre die. From memory, my opponent was mad, bad and dangerous to know with a couple of abilities giving him  +2 wounding  bonuses (Strong and Son of Pluto from memory) to go with his class ability of being Mobile (change action die to Defence die).

So, out we trooped onto the sands with the confident expectation one of us would be dining in Hades’ Halls this evening. With all that on our minds we didn’t really intimidate the other at all and the match commenced.

(https://i.imgur.com/4mcBsuR.jpg)
Above: The fighters face off - Using a Steve Barber 25mm mini really makes the Crusader Retiarius look like the tough proposition he was

Very early on the Retiarius decided to use his net and his cast was good wrapping up my guy and causing the loss of two action dice. He followed this up with a long-range lunge and up-close heavy strike, both of which were kept out and my fighter elected not to recoil by spending a Defence die, made an ineffectual attack, pushing back the trident man and then stepped back himself. Next turn he managed to roll a laurel in his pool and got the initiative shrugging off the net with his Indefatigable ability and dropping onto the arena floor. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Yhl5tFR.jpg)
Above: The Secutor quickly escapes from the net

From here the two fighters fenced their way around the arena. The lighter gladiator trying the edge closer to his net and seemed to have a great chance to regain it as he edged around the Chasers right.  When he tripped while lunging and went down. Alas, my guy didn’t have the legs to get to him and couldn’t close before he was on his feet again.

(https://i.imgur.com/e2SwwMV.jpg)
Above: The Retiarius trips and goes down but recovers before his opponent can capitalise

As the match progressed, much of my attention was taken up by managing fatigue – Vigorous was super useful here) and trying a variety of attacks and gambits to get through my opponent’s defences. In reply, the Retiarius abandoned thoughts of getting his net back and played to his strengthen eschewing the Lunge and instead closing for the Heavy Strike at every opportunity with the intention of using his natural wound bonuses and the +2 wound modifier from the special attack to punch through my armour. It worked as he inflicted a deep wound to the head and the claret was gushing. I managed to strike back with a slow kill to his unarmoured rear arm so we were both losing fatigue at a rapid rate, despite our best efforts.  One turn I was bereft of threes (and laurels)  had the initiative and seeing my opponent roll five(1) respite die and a defence dice made one attack inflicting a fatigue, pushed him back and then followed up standing next to him and ending my turn meaning that on his turn there was literally nothing he could do. This turned his manageable fatigue situation into a dire one.

(https://i.imgur.com/L96OyG5.jpg)
Above: The dice are cruel - with this roll the Retiarius cannot manage his fatigue

That turn we both dropped to being ‘fatigued’ and the tempo upped as our life blood stained the arena as we traded increasingly frantic bows trying to keep in the fight despite our blood tokens. Another heavy strike on me put a huge gash on my left leg meaning I was losing three fatigue a turn and rather than riposte I incurred a disfavour token to focus on respite. We were both still in the fight until we reached the stage where our respective dice pools allowed neither of us to recover enough fatigue and collapse was imminent. Final blows delivered with ebbing strength did not decide the match as both fighters slumped to the sands and, against all odds, a Stans Missus was declared (even though this is not allowed under the Ending the Match rules).

Observations from my Opponent:

1.   The game took about 60 minutes, probably a bit too long for a one-on-one fight.
2.   The game played well and the Retreat with no disfavour ability for the Retiarius is very good.
3.   It was a bit too easy to recover from being prone in that with an initiative win he was very quickly back on his feet – should there be an initiative penalty for prone fighters?
4.   Again, using a valuable Laurel die to modify an attack roll before it is made was not seen as optimal. Conversely, using a banked Defence die prior to the defend roll seemed to work well.
5.   To simulate extra effort to wound, could a Laurel die be used to add +1 to a wound roll?
6.   The Aimed Attack is good against the Retiarius but seemed to be of minimal use against anyone with decent padding. Perhaps a +2 modifier would make it more attractive?
7.   When an opponent who has not used all their action dice is tangled in a net, who decides which action die are (temporarily) forfeit?

My own views of the game from these two playtests

1.   The game plays really well and is very close to being right-to-go.
2.   The game remains enjoyable and challenging, even after six or eight plays suggesting there is a very good degree of replayabilty in the rules.
3.   The campaign system looks sound but I am yet to try it out.
4.   I think a 20-30 minute average game time is about right for each bout so there is some scope to tweak things that it is just that little bit more likely to wound one’s opponent.
5.   I tend to agree with most of the comments above, especially about allocating laurel die to attacks prior to making the attack role.
6.   Each game had boxcars and snake eyes rolled but didn’t decide the match. I like the idea that one bad roll won’t decide the outcome of the match.
7.   You’re doing a great job in developing Blood on the Sands – this has the genuine potential to become to premier one-on-one gladiator set of rules!

So, there we are, another couple of playtests completed and feedback/suggestions/comments provided. I hope these commentaries and observations are useful. Please let me know if you need any other information or if my suggestions/comments are unclear.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on April 23, 2022, 03:45:49 AM
Another great report Muzfish - thanks for going to the effort. it is much appreciated mate.  :)

I have gone to reply to this post twice already but real life keeps getting in the way.

The observations both you and opponents have made are very sound and have been taken on board. Many of them have already been addressed in the next draft document, which I hope to release soon

Again thanks - your feedback is a huge help to me.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 07, 2022, 09:37:15 AM
Okay, more gladiatorial action in the form of playtesting BotS, this time with an opponent who had played a previous version. After explaining the changes to the rules we started from the beginning and it was a match in which the editor of the games had a bad egg that morning and didn’t want a Secutor in sight. My opponent preferred the Hoplomachus so I chose the Thracian, both classes which have had some significant revisions. The Hoplomachus who, amongst other things, no longer has a -1 for damage with his lunge would face my Thracian whose new class trait lets him hit on draw. Interesting revisions. Another change of note is that a disparity of 3 or more between a successful attack roll and the defence roll adds +2 damage.

(https://i.imgur.com/4qQZxpa.jpg?1)
Above: facing off at the start. No-one is intimidated

The fight started well for the spearman who decided not to jab away at a distance and instead leant heavily into the attack getting his one special attack (now a fighter may make one special attack per turn only) as a heavy strike which ate up some of my defence dice with a shield parry and a ‘general dodge’ followed up by a couple of normal inflicting a flesh wound on turn one. He was a bit disappointed by this hoping for more, but after previous quite bloodless games this was quite the change, even more so the next round as he rammed his spear through my helmet for another wound and a bleed token.

(https://i.imgur.com/DHeUcDs.jpg?1)
Above: Playsheet with stand-in tokens

Things looked grim for the Thracian but the fight back was on as my guy got good use of his dice pool to weather the barrage of close-in assaults, manage my fatigue and riposte with a deep wound to the Hoplomachus’ lead leg as the wickedly sharp sica sliced through his ocrea aided by a +2 from a roll of 11 that exceeded my opponent’s modified defence by five.

One bleed token each got the crowd going and the Thracian milked it for all it was worth and by landing a telling blow and doing a victory dance about it he accrued a couple of Favour Tokens in the one turn. With his gander up he again turned on the magic with a hook around (rolling three and picking the best two and hitting on ties makes the Thracian a very dangerous foe) and pushed the Hoplomachus into the danger zone as he became fatigued and followed up with a slow kill on his opponent’s lead arm, dropping the spear to the reducing his dice pool to four with two bleed tokens to manage.

(https://i.imgur.com/XIcHJkx.jpg?1)
Above: The Thracian starts to dictate the pace of the bout

My guy then added injury to injury and with a location roll of snake eyes hitting him in the unprotected ‘vitals’ for a flesh wound. Next shot was an aimed attack (now +/-2 to the location roll) hoping to takes his voice if not his life but the raw 9 became an 11 plunging the sica into the Hoplomachus’ equally unarmoured torso for another wound and used the last manoeuvre die to step back. This rendered the savaged fighter unable to attack or recover and he was set to bleed out at the end of his turn. Rather than acquire another disfavour token (the first came from dropping his spear) he raised a finger seeking missio.

The fickle crowd had forgotten his early success and after their somewhat harsh verdict the unfortunate Hoplomachus was escorted on his journey to the underworld by Hermes Psychopompus.

(https://i.imgur.com/oL6VVJY.jpg?1)
Above: No sympathy for the loser here - you on't want to put your fate in the hands of the crowd!

There we go. The game played very well and the improvements made in this draft pretty much nail it. The game is there and all the various tweaks and improvements work very nicely together.

I played another game today with a Secutor taking on a Retiarius and again the lighter fighter had the initial running of it but the judicious use of defence dice to get the benefit of the +3 scutum parry (even when facing a low attack roll – I never back my rolling and using this really saved my bacon a couple of times as my execrable defence rolls were bolstered by the big shield just enough to avoid several dangerous blows). Once the initial storm (including a net cast) was weathered my guy kept pushing, managed his fatigue and got on top as he landed a slow kill onto the netman’s lead leg. After that it was just a matter of time. Another good game that worked really well.

My observations:

•   The tweaks really work. It is very engaging to manage the dice pool and the new +2 to would from a disparity of 3 or more really makes for some challenging decisions.

•   The parry mechanism is a winner. Defence dice and how you use them really matter.

•   The Munus events work well and add a bit of flavour without detracting or distracting from the main game.

•   The new class traits look to be genuine improvements and add a fair bit of differentiation between the fighters. The Thracian becomes a really dangerous package and the Retiarius is enhanced with the option of swapping out an action die for either mobility or defence depending on the circumstances of the match.

•   The removal of unspent action dice is good. Though most turns all dice were spent one way or another so there wasn’t any feeling of having a ‘dud hand’ with which one couldn’t do anything.

•   The option to spend a laurel die to improve an attack after the roll is excellent. Really makes those dice valuable and with the +2 to damage mentioned above for disparities of 3 or more it makes these decisions very interesting. (Can a fervour token be used in the same manner?)

•   Critical parries are a nice addition. It happened once but the fighter kept their feet – just.

•   Changing the aimed attack to +2/-2 really makes it an option worthy of serious consideration – especially when facing an already-wounded opponent. This adds an interesting tactical dimension to the decision making.

•   A lot (but not all) special attacks have had their ‘costs’ removed, this works as the one-per-turn restriction really makes a player thing about how they want to use this opportunity.

Suggestions:

•   An A4 sheet combining the Tessera Gladiatoria and ‘normal’ playsheet might be useful – especially if the class trait is printed in the Tessera Gladiatoria. It may give a bit more room to store the tokens as well.

•   Current rules-as-written allow a +1 to be added to an attack for every attack die spent – is this ‘normal’ attack only or can a ‘special’ attack die also be used this way?

•   We understood that an item could only be used for its parry bonus once per attack. That is, if I had a scutum and two defence dice I would use one for the +3 parry and the other for the +1 general defence – is this right?

•   We weren’t sure about the number of starting parry tokens – did I miss where they are on the class descriptions?

•   As the game is nearly done, it might be beneficial to include some extended play examples in and appendix to assist new players.

•   This might be me, but the ‘once a game’ abilities such as Son of nemesis tend to be forgotten in the excitement. Would they perhaps be a useful token for a player to have on their sheet so as not to forget them and remove the token when used?

Next step will be to try to run a short campaign and see how we go from there.

That’s all from me for now.

TLDR; rule revisions work really well. This game is close to being done.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 07, 2022, 09:40:31 PM
The game played very well and the improvements made in this draft pretty much nail it. The game is there and all the various tweaks and improvements work very nicely together.

Firstly thanks again Muzfish for going to the effort of detailing your report and findings here - I really appreciate it mate.
I am very happy to hear that all the tweaks to the rules meet your approval and other playtesters thankfully agree with you.
Love your eclectic collection of tokens!

So others know, I chose to release a v1.2 update to the most dedicated playtesters, to quickly judge a major rules change regarding Defence dice and their use.
I will have a v1.3 ready soon that will include these updates.

My observations:
•   The option to spend a laurel die to improve an attack after the roll is excellent. Really makes those dice valuable and with the +2 to damage mentioned above for disparities of 3 or more it makes these decisions very interesting. (Can a fervour token be used in the same manner?)

Yes it can. A fervour token in all respects is a Laurel Dice.

•   An A4 sheet combining the Tessera Gladiatoria and ‘normal’ playsheet might be useful – especially if the class trait is printed in the Tessera Gladiatoria. It may give a bit more room to store the tokens as well.

The idea is that the gladiator playsheet is laminated and written on with a whiteboard marker and is used for any gladiator of that class, while the Tessera Gladiatoria sheet is unique to a given gladiator, being written on with pencil and stored between matches. Physically combining them into one sheet, although possibly convenient, makes writing on them with different mediums difficult. 

•   Current rules-as-written allow a +1 to be added to an attack for every attack die spent – is this ‘normal’ attack only or can a ‘special’ attack die also be used this way?

No, only "normal attack" dice (a 4), may be added as +1 to an attack.

•   We understood that an item could only be used for its parry bonus once per attack. That is, if I had a scutum and two defence dice I would use one for the +3 parry and the other for the +1 general defence – is this right?

Yes you are exactly right. You either gain your parry bonus or not by spending a Defence dice/Parry token. Additional Defence dice/Parry tokens add the general +1.

•   We weren’t sure about the number of starting parry tokens – did I miss where they are on the class descriptions?

Yes a total oversight by me in a rush to explain the tweaks. Starting Parry tokens = total Parry Bonus. So, for example, a secutor starts with 3 parry tokens while a hoplomachus starts with 2 parry tokens. This will become clearer (and will be actually explained) in the next version.

•   As the game is nearly done, it might be beneficial to include some extended play examples in and appendix to assist new players.

Yes definitely. Was waiting as you say until the rules are mostly tied down.


•   This might be me, but the ‘once a game’ abilities such as Son of nemesis tend to be forgotten in the excitement. Would they perhaps be a useful token for a player to have on their sheet so as not to forget them and remove the token when used?

I'm trying to keep tokens to a minimum, but that is not a bad suggestion at all considering they are single use.

Next step will be to try to run a short campaign and see how we go from there.

That would be great Muzfish, the campaign elements of the game have not been playtested enough, along with running gladiators of different tier levels against each other.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: craigjonwoodfield on May 08, 2022, 09:48:36 PM
I'll just pitch in briefly to support Muzfish's excellent summary. We had a quite exciting game and the revised rules work well.

The only return fire from me is on the use of special attack dice to boost attack rolls (or do anything else really). As it stands, the recent changes mean that dice are rarely redundant - except for 5s. With special attacks now limited to one per turn, rolling a handful of 5s is pretty much your worst outcome. I would argue it doesn't scan that well either - rolling a bunch of 1s indicates the gladiator is poised to maneuver, a bunch of 2's going on the defensive, a bunch of 3s he/she is resting, 4's ready to attack, 6's anything is possible but 5's - bad luck son, you get one special attack and the rest are wasted. Even using 5's to only boost special attacks would be worth considering.

My 5 denarii.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 08, 2022, 09:59:30 PM
Thanks for the reply craigjonwoodfield - appreciated.

Regarding the one Special Attack, the rule is actually: A gladiator may perform any given SPECIAL ATTACK! only once per turn.

So you can perform as many Special Attacks as you have dice for, you just can't perform the same Special Attack in a turn. Maybe the rule isn't clear enough?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: craigjonwoodfield on May 09, 2022, 04:01:41 AM
Ack, we got that wrong. I blame Muzfish. But I actually didn't mind only being able to make 1 special attack per turn. Makes it kind of, you know, special.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 09, 2022, 07:10:13 AM
Ack, we got that wrong. I blame Muzfish.

Yeah, that was me. I read it as meaning that a gladiator can only perform one special attack per turn. Still played pretty well forcing the player to decide to what attack they were going to commit. It did indeed make the single attack quite special.

Whichever way it ends up going - you're on a definite winner here. I think we're very close to a finalised set.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 09, 2022, 12:42:07 PM
All good gents - I'm surprised play testers have got the majority of the rules right anyway! lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 18, 2022, 10:40:29 AM
I have just released Blood on the Sands v1.3. Play testers should have been contacted by now.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on May 25, 2022, 06:43:33 PM
Oooouuaaahhh !!! It's been a long time since I came back here, but after seeing the Facebook videos by chance, I'm glad to know that BotS is not dead !!!
So I'm back...
 ;D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 25, 2022, 09:21:44 PM
Oooouuaaahhh !!! It's been a long time since I came back here, but after seeing the Facebook videos by chance, I'm glad to know that BotS is not dead !!!
So I'm back...
 ;D

It sure has been a long time Franck! BotS has crawled out from beneath Charun's hammer.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 29, 2022, 09:06:21 AM
The playtesting is going well and, as I say above, the one-on-one aspect of the game feels like it is very close to being done so when we gave it another run we decided to give the campaign format a try for the first time. However, with work, kids’ sports and life in general I am only writing about it now. Still, better late than never, though

Munus I

First things first. We went through the full campaign set up in the rules (version 1.2 at that stage) and set up our respective munii. I ran the stable of Dubius Status (thanks, Asterix the Legionary) while my opponent was Manifarius. We chose our first couple of matches in the one year campaign filled out the Libellus Munerarius sheet and were away. Looks like the ad initio editor is big on blood and snake eyes had no mercy for the fighters. Hard way to start a campaign, but there we are.

That done, the crowd cheered in the first event of the season as the compositio trooped onto the sand. The Ludus of Manifarius presented the rookie Retiarius, Felix. The lucky one faced off against Flaccus the Secutor. The match started with a bit of an opening attack, measured in pace and ineffective in outcome from Flaccus. Felix, for his part lived up to his name with a net cast as his opening gambit. Unlike other experiences where this has been lucky to be considered a nuisance, this cast netted the chaser but good, causing him for temporarily forfeit three dice.  From there he never came back being unable to roll laurels for toffee and was skewered in the tines of Felix’s trident.

(https://i.imgur.com/EqqXjFl.jpg?1)
Above: A very successful net cast

Moments after the crumpled and lifeless form of Flaccus was dragged from the arena out rocked the Thracian, Audax, from the stable of Dubius Status - he was adored the crowed loved him.  A decidedly less warm welcome greeted Dynamicus the Murmillo. Audax used his attacks well and seemed to have a five on-hand every turn to put in the Thracian hook around. Even with my traditional lousy rolling, having three dice (and choosing the best two) was a huge edge. Win to the Thracian and a one-way trip on Charon’s barge for the less than dynamic Dynamicus.

(https://i.imgur.com/TkTScII.jpg)
Above: One for Dubius' crew

So, round one was over and the two champions were on five fame each which bumped them up a tier giving all sorts of abilities. As they were tied in fame there was no clear champion but by reaching this level they certainly had a number of edges in any future bouts. Interesting.

Munus II

Next round on the circuit saw the new editor eschew the sine missone – much to the relief of both stable masters as it costs a good few coin to train up a tiro and losing them on their first outing does not represent what later generations would describe as a good return on investment. Editor Secundus is very much into a vanilla sort of bout with nothing special for the crowd to consider, just mano-a-mano until they have jolly well had enough.

Dubius Status elected to field Audax the Thracian again and instead of a big shield man it was another of his matched opponents – a Hoplomachus, Socrates hailing from who knew where.  Audax used his edges to play to the crowd, build up his parries and generally give it a red hot go. All this showmanship did not end up doing him much good as he caught a spear through the chest which really slowed him down and then another to the rear arm. The +2  with the parmula as opposed to the +3 parry with the scutum really made a difference as the blows landed and our tier one Thracian went from hero to zero pretty quickly.  The crowd saw through him for the show pony he was and, with an appeal roll of three, didn’t waste too much time on calling forth Hermes pyschpompus. Match to the wise one.

(https://i.imgur.com/j7gdjpp.jpg)
Above: The skewering of Audax

Last match of the day saw Felix front up again facing a new Secutor, a German Prisoner of recent campaigns across the Rhine called, with the typical sensitivity the Romans showed the their captives, Vercingetorix. Again Felix cast early but this time it wasn’t as effective as it could have been, but still cost the big German a die or two. By way of contrast, Felix was untouched, easily batting away shield bashes, aimed attacks and bog standard stabs with his trident. The +1 initiative bonus from tier disparity made a difference as he could dictate the tempo of the match and force the chaser to burn a lot of dice to attack just to avoid the disfavour token. Not too far into the match a critical hit with all the gubbins collected Vercingetorix in the chest and boxcars pushed the damage up to 14 so the Teuton was dead before he hit the ground.

(https://i.imgur.com/VQpq4VR.jpg)
Above: Felix gets a victory and the key to his freedom

Felix didn’t advance another tier but did, with some outrageous rolling find himself in possession of a rudis and no longer obliged to risk it all for what is a very fickle crowd. Manifarius made him a big offer to come back as a rudiarius but you couldn’t see the ex-netman for dust as he went off to forge a new life away from the sand and blood of the arena. Still, that’s 10 points banked for Manifarius which is huge in the context of the campaign.

So, there we go. Four games played to completion and the campaign half done in around two and a half hours. Manifarius certainly has the running so far, but we’re only halfway there and Dubius Status could still surprise.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 29, 2022, 09:20:40 AM
More to come on this, but to break things up, here's a video Furt might enjoy with more modern(ish) gladiators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swf9HwX63NI&ab_channel=reasonstodrinkbeer


Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 29, 2022, 09:28:12 AM
Righto, back to it.

Our next match was a week later and played under version 1.3. We decided to give a few other classes a run and fielded a Provocator each to see how the armoured dudes did against each other.

Munus III

To start with the editor, who likes a laugh, had his spare Anubi statues trotted out and placed around the arena. After all, what’s the point in a posting to Egypt if you don’t bring something fancy back to show the folks at home?

(https://i.imgur.com/PQUESFw.jpg)
Above: The crowd come out for this one - handy to keep the edges of an increasingly batter playsheet grounded

This Provocator vs Provoctor bout was decided, largely, by dice. Dubius’ boy, Myron, got the yips at the start and was an action die down for the entire bout as he didn’t manage to roll a laurel from his pool of five (then four) dice for the entire eight turns of the match. He also rarely rolled above six for either attack or defence. By contrast, Remus did not suffer from misfortune – though he certainly dished a fair bit of it out.  Despite only taking one wound to the lead arm (one more than his opponent, Remus) the ineptitude of Myron was the one constant in an ever-changing universe and when he was about to drop with exhaustion (he wasn’t much good at rolling 3s when it mattered either) he raised his finger and the crowd seemed to decide the cruellest thing they could do would be to let him live. One fame to Dubius and the fightback was on. Not really, Remus picked up more points but as he didn’t get much of a chance to shine against such a gumby didn’t get to tier one.

(https://i.imgur.com/WNQqZqW.jpg)
Above: Blood is drawn but really, it's amatter of time for before pseudo-Crupellarius goes down

Last match of the day was heavy against light as Manifarius broke from type and fielded a Murmillo. Coming in the opposite corner was a Hoplomachus whose ferocity went unnoticed but did have a fair bit of depth in defence. The bout started with Ignoramus defying the wit who gave him his arena name by making his attacks and zipping away forcing Juba, the hard man out of Utica, to burn die after die just chasing him and accrue half a dozen disfavour tokens at one stage as he just couldn’t reach his opponent to attack.  So far so good, the Hoplomachus inflicted a few hits here and there and kept his fatigue under control while pushing the cardio training of Juba finally over the line to exhaustion. The end looked nigh as Juba fumbled and saw his sweat-slicked sword fly out of his hand to land behind him. The crowd didn’t see Ignoramus’ grin behind his helmet but knew the end was nigh.

(https://i.imgur.com/kglLAix.jpg?1)
Above: the key moment where Juba's gladius goes flying

They were bang right but not in the way anyone expected. Juba had the initiative and being without a sword used his shield; the shield barge worked and a couple of consecutive ones saw the Hoplomachus flat out on the floor of the arena as he has a shocker on the trip hazard table. Juba, following the Way of the Scutum to its logical conclusion then rolled out a powerful shield strike smashing off the downed fighter’s visor for a deep head wound.   Being prone also meant Ignoramus forfeited his action dice and didn’t have the chance to get up (or do anything) in his turn. Next turn’s initiative was vital and we both roll a three. Should go to Ignoramus but there is a -1 as the penalty for being prone. Juba, by contrast has just the right set of dice to step back, grab his gladius (which he does with no dramas, step up and land a mighty blow, again to the head and the crania trauma is too much for the spearman who last thoughts have him wonder which god he offended.

(https://i.imgur.com/AsuHaIz.jpg?1)
Above: A defeat against the run of play, but a defeat nonetheless

At that stage we called it as Manifarius was 21-1 ahead in the campaign and Dubius Status was not even a mathematical possibility for a victory.

(https://i.imgur.com/IJMjOU6.jpg)
Above: The final Libellus Munerarius - forgive the scribble but you get the idea

Observations on the campaign

•   Played well. The setup is pretty quick once you get the hang of it.
•   There may be scope for fighter background to have a minor effect on campaign outcomes. Maybe ex equestrians could generate more fame if they win?
•   Ending about with disfavour tokens doesn’t affect a fighter’s accrued fame – could there be a -1 fame for having any disfavour tokens at the conclusion of a bout?
•   We weren’t sure, but though that if a fighter is killed their fame also disappears – is this right?
•   Gladiator classes with only one type of opponent can seem a bit ‘samey’ – it would be good to allow out of class fights – perhaps once a fighter reaches tier one and a curious public want to see what he can do?

Observations on the combats


•   As I say, they are about right and the constant management of the dice pool really does have a player constantly involved in not just their own fighter’s actions, but also trying to anticipate what one’s opponent will do.
•   Parries work well and really ad to the way the game plays with no added complexity.
Fights are bloody and not too many gladiators seem to survive. Is the death-ratio perhaps a little high?
•   The +2 to damage for disparities of 3 or more really matter and still get players thinking about spending defence dice even when their opponent rolls so well a hit is highly likely.
•   This is the first time I have seen a (hyper) successful shield barge. It can really ruin your day if things go wrong for you.
•   We did have some discussion around whether the hook around (combined with the dominant trait) makes the Thracian too dangerous, but on reflection I am of the view that this is what makes the class appealing – that threat of at least one potentially really effective attack a turn gives their bigger, better shielded foes pause.
•   In most cases a bit of bad luck won’t ruin a game for you. In the last match my Hoplomachus did pretty much everything right until the worst of rolls on my part met the best of rolls from my opponent and it all went to custard very quickly.

Observations on the classes

Having played a few games now, here are my general thoughts and observations on the six classes of gladiator.
Thracian – My favourite class. I enjoy their offensive edges and it is a challenge getting the most bang for one’s buck while still warding off attacks. The +2 bonus with the parmula and smaller parry token pool make this guy always a chance for action.

Murmillo – Another class I really like. Spends a lot of time defending, and has the profile to do so, but when he does get in there the Brute class characteristic makes it potentially very unpleasant for the opponent.  A good one for newer players as is it perhaps the most forgiving of the classes.

Hoplomachus – Fun, fun, fun. These guys are a hoot and their mobility, tied with interesting special attacks and the ability to strike at a distance make them fun to play. By contrast they have to burn a lot of dice on the defence. I suspect these guys are the trickiest to win with.

Retiarius – A good net cast will win you the match, or at least it should, a miss however, won’t really hurt too much. The +2 attack and +2 defence with the trident are pretty powerful. The lack of armour makes every successful hit a rollercoaster of hope and desperation.

Secutor – A good paring for the netman and this is reflected in the rules. Having only to one class of opponent makes them a bit one-dimensional.

Provocator – By a fair way, I find this class the least interesting. Maybe the amount of armour makes it feel like bouts are going to be drawn out and relay more on fatigues than hits. Then again, perhaps I need to give it another try though without any sort of ‘gimmick’ attack he’s more like a Murmillo who gets tuckered out easily.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: craigjonwoodfield on May 30, 2022, 10:12:51 PM
Great commentary by Muzfish as usual, I've got nothing to add except the thrill of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in that last match was pretty intense, matched only by Muzfish's frustration at doing everything right and having the match in the bag to only get upended by a few extraordinary rolls.

cheers

CW
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on May 31, 2022, 04:50:20 AM
Again thanks for the detailed report Muzfish and for putting it up here.

As a kid I was an avid Parra supporter and even remember that ad. This was the heyday of the Eels and the likes of Grothe, Price and Kenny were certainly modern day gladiators.


Observations on the campaign

•   Played well. The setup is pretty quick once you get the hang of it.
•   There may be scope for fighter background to have a minor effect on campaign outcomes. Maybe ex equestrians could generate more fame if they win?
•   Ending about with disfavour tokens doesn’t affect a fighter’s accrued fame – could there be a -1 fame for having any disfavour tokens at the conclusion of a bout?
•   We weren’t sure, but though that if a fighter is killed their fame also disappears – is this right?
•   Gladiator classes with only one type of opponent can seem a bit ‘samey’ – it would be good to allow out of class fights – perhaps once a fighter reaches tier one and a curious public want to see what he can do?



Observations on the combats


•   As I say, they are about right and the constant management of the dice pool really does have a player constantly involved in not just their own fighter’s actions, but also trying to anticipate what one’s opponent will do.
•   Parries work well and really ad to the way the game plays with no added complexity.
Fights are bloody and not too many gladiators seem to survive. Is the death-ratio perhaps a little high?
•   The +2 to damage for disparities of 3 or more really matter and still get players thinking about spending defence dice even when their opponent rolls so well a hit is highly likely.
•   This is the first time I have seen a (hyper) successful shield barge. It can really ruin your day if things go wrong for you.
•   We did have some discussion around whether the hook around (combined with the dominant trait) makes the Thracian too dangerous, but on reflection I am of the view that this is what makes the class appealing – that threat of at least one potentially really effective attack a turn gives their bigger, better shielded foes pause.
•   In most cases a bit of bad luck won’t ruin a game for you. In the last match my Hoplomachus did pretty much everything right until the worst of rolls on my part met the best of rolls from my opponent and it all went to custard very quickly.

Great observations that really make this old lanista smile - great to hear.  :)

Observations on the classes

Having played a few games now, here are my general thoughts and observations on the six classes of gladiator.
Thracian – My favourite class. I enjoy their offensive edges and it is a challenge getting the most bang for one’s buck while still warding off attacks. The +2 bonus with the parmula and smaller parry token pool make this guy always a chance for action.

Murmillo – Another class I really like. Spends a lot of time defending, and has the profile to do so, but when he does get in there the Brute class characteristic makes it potentially very unpleasant for the opponent.  A good one for newer players as is it perhaps the most forgiving of the classes.

Hoplomachus – Fun, fun, fun. These guys are a hoot and their mobility, tied with interesting special attacks and the ability to strike at a distance make them fun to play. By contrast they have to burn a lot of dice on the defence. I suspect these guys are the trickiest to win with.

Retiarius – A good net cast will win you the match, or at least it should, a miss however, won’t really hurt too much. The +2 attack and +2 defence with the trident are pretty powerful. The lack of armour makes every successful hit a rollercoaster of hope and desperation.

Secutor – A good paring for the netman and this is reflected in the rules. Having only to one class of opponent makes them a bit one-dimensional.

Provocator – By a fair way, I find this class the least interesting. Maybe the amount of armour makes it feel like bouts are going to be drawn out and relay more on fatigues than hits. Then again, perhaps I need to give it another try though without any sort of ‘gimmick’ attack he’s more like a Murmillo who gets tuckered out easily.

Pretty spot on here too. My hope has always been that the classes feel and play different from each other - a monumental task.

Provocators do tend to produce drawn out combats of fatigue, what with their torso protection and all, but I do like that this is the case. The new Provoke ability could see them using a different tactic to win.

The retiarius has lost his +2 to attack (reduced to +1) in the latest version because it was just too good. They retain their +2 to defence.

Again thank you Muzfish and criagjonwoodfield for your continued support. It is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on May 31, 2022, 08:44:35 AM
Hi Frank, no worries at all. I think it's safe to say we're both enjoying the playtesting.

Thinking abut the campaign structure, perhaps doubling the points awarded (and points needed to advance a tier) might allow for minor deductions like some minor negative for finishing the game with disfavour tokens?

Having only the 'in play' six count towards a ludus' fame does make the management of gladiators tricky - hence the requirement of the Champion to fight at the Saturnalia so no hiding the frontrunner.

I like the idea of a 'no class restrictions' ludus event - to the point that perhaps class restrictions are banned. Should add a bit of spice. Another option might be for Tier one gladiators fight other tier one gladiators (at the discretion of the fielding lanista) as the crowd want to see the big names fight - maybe attach a fame bonus as well to incentivise give the people what they want?

The game with the Hoplomachus showed the strengths of the system in that it really wasn't a case of going through the motions for a foregone conclusion and Craigus'  ability to conjure a surprise win from his reduced dice pool with judicious management and a bit of luck was really what the game is all about.

Finally, glad you liked the Tooheys ad. My favorite of the series was the Mike Whitney cricket one but this was a classic. As a kid I backed the chooks with local legends like Artie Beetson, Kevin Hastings and Russell Fairfax. Good times.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on June 01, 2022, 09:36:02 PM
Hi Frank, no worries at all. I think it's safe to say we're both enjoying the playtesting.

Thinking abut the campaign structure, perhaps doubling the points awarded (and points needed to advance a tier) might allow for minor deductions like some minor negative for finishing the game with disfavour tokens?

Having only the 'in play' six count towards a ludus' fame does make the management of gladiators tricky - hence the requirement of the Champion to fight at the Saturnalia so no hiding the frontrunner.

I like the idea of a 'no class restrictions' ludus event - to the point that perhaps class restrictions are banned. Should add a bit of spice. Another option might be for Tier one gladiators fight other tier one gladiators (at the discretion of the fielding lanista) as the crowd want to see the big names fight - maybe attach a fame bonus as well to incentivise give the people what they want?

The game with the Hoplomachus showed the strengths of the system in that it really wasn't a case of going through the motions for a foregone conclusion and Craigus'  ability to conjure a surprise win from his reduced dice pool with judicious management and a bit of luck was really what the game is all about.


Yeah your campaign suggestions certainly have merit.

I still fear that a gladiator who has lost his match with disfavour is likely to gain nothing from the match. I'd like to avoid that if possible.

In regard to "no class restrictions" I did still intend to impose the prohibited opponents, so for example, a retiarius would still be prohibited from facing another retiarius.

Concerning tier, do you mean always forcing like tier gladiators to only fight each other? Or a munus event that forces equal tier bouts? If the former, I think this would lead to matching issues ie being unable sometimes to find an opponent at all.

I am much more comfortable that the system is more robust now a makes for a good tactical combat, not just luck. I assume also that with the amount of bouts you both have under your belts you are learning the nuances of the system.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 08, 2022, 05:11:58 AM
Having managed to paint the necessary miniatures to play Blood on the Sands, my friend and I were able to squeeze two matches in tonight.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-080722042801-558041990.jpeg)

The first match pitted Tertius the Hoplomachus, a Roman by birth and volunteer into the arena against Popidius, a criminal from Thrace forced to don the gear of a Thraex.

The Hoplomachus, overly exicted and starting with fervor, started off very poorly- critically failing his first attack, stumbling, and inviting a fierce reprisal. The Thraex moved in, hooking his sica around and worrying the Roman. After a short exchange of blows between the two, Tertius opened a vein in the thraex's leg with a well aimed thrust. This was followed by a wound to the head. Things were looking grim for the thraex, and the crowd was certainly behind the Roman at this point. Popidius backed the Hoplomachus against the wall, knowing if he didn't end it soon he would bleed out.

Tertius however, rushed forward and stabbed Popidus in the head again, bypassing the helmet and ending the match. The crowd was of mixed opinion and it was a near thing, but Popidius was granted missio and turned over the the doctors.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-080722042802-55806440.jpeg)

The next match was Karnak, a notorious slave from Egypt, vs. Cerebus, a Secutor and also a Roman plebeian. It seemed that the popularity of the games was inducing everyday Romans to join the excitement.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-080722042802-55807463.jpeg)

Karnak, utterly disdainful of the jeering audience, threw sand almost immediately, blinding the secutor, who seemed to be at a disadvantage of some sort for the rest of the match. Cerebus taunted the Retiarius and caused him to lose his composure, if only for a moment. The Secutor persevered and lived up to his name, chasing the rebellious slave across the arena. There were net casts and recoveries, attempts to trip, shield bashes, and lunging trident strikes. Cerebus never landed a telling blow on the swift netman, although there were close calls. In return, Karnak managed to land a few wounds, causing the crowd to grudgingly accept that he had some martial skill, as he had two critical strikes, with little result, as if he was toying with the chaser. Eventually, the secutor's activities fatigued him, and he was partially entangled. After casting off the net, he made every effort to keep the retiarius from recovering it, and backed Karnak into the corner. Karnak kicked sand into the Secutors eyes again, and he fell for the move a second time. Cerebus was fading... he attempted a low strike, which barely grazed the skin. His last attempt was a rushing attack as seen by the Hoplomachus in the prior match, and he fell to the ground, exhausted. The crowd again barely delivered missio.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-080722042802-558081000.jpeg)

Observations: Honestly, I'm shocked that the game still has the same overall feel despite quite a few changes to the game, as I played it a few years ago.
I like that stats were dispensed with and at this point I don't have any qualms about changes that have been made since the first iteration.

A couple questions/clarifications:

Pg. 6: In the description of the gladiator sheet, it says "this is the sheet for the retiarius class" but it appears to be a hoplomachus sheet.

Pg. 14: "Origin and ethnicity bare no in game effects". First, I think it should be 'bear', but I also wonder if that is true. One rolls traits based off ethnicity (for example 'adored' is available to certain backgrounds) and those do have in game effects, do they not? 

Pg. 21 mentions a 'Hazard table' under trip hazards, but I think that is the collision table?

On the Injury table, pg. 39: If a gladiator has a slow "kill wound" and was disabled due to two head wounds, what is the total modifier?

Fame: Does a gladiator get a point of fame for entering, and two more for winning?

Plan on doing some more matches next week.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on July 08, 2022, 07:29:54 AM
I'm so happy you have had the opportunity to have a game Matt, considering you were so involved with the original version.  :)

Also, excellent to hear that BotS remains at it's core the same game and still gives a good narrative combat.

I am already well into ver1.4 - nothing too major but it will introduce Apathy (the opposite of Fervour) and Signature Moves (the ability to combine a class Special Attack with a Common Special Attack).

Some very lovely gladiators by the way. I like Karnak the retiarius' liberal throwing of sand and his indifference to the crowd. Apathy is introduced especially to deter a gladiator from trying too many underhanded tactics!

I'll answer your queries below:

Pg. 6: In the description of the gladiator sheet, it says "this is the sheet for the retiarius class" but it appears to be a hoplomachus sheet.

Yes good catch - it is most definitely a hoplomachus sheet.

Pg. 14: "Origin and ethnicity bare no in game effects". First, I think it should be 'bear', but I also wonder if that is true. One rolls traits based off ethnicity (for example 'adored' is available to certain backgrounds) and those do have in game effects, do they not? 

Yes you are correct, they do have a bearing of sorts, that of providing certain traits, which of cause have game effects.

Pg. 21 mentions a 'Hazard table' under trip hazards, but I think that is the collision table?

Yes, right again. This has already been caught in ver1.4, but it does refer to the Collision Table.

On the Injury table, pg. 39: If a gladiator has a slow "kill wound" and was disabled due to two head wounds, what is the total modifier?

I can see what you are getting at here - I don't think it has ever came up in a game to date. Although unlikely, a gladiator could suffer a "slow kill" on one location but later have a different location disabled or even suffer two "slow kills" to separate locations. Similarly, they could suffer a flesh wound to a location, followed by a "slow kill" wound to the same location, which would of course disable the location (which I assume was your situation?).

If that was the case, an amendment to ver1.4 means the gladiator actually suffered a kill wound instead  :'(
Should the wounds of a slow kill ever exceed the amount of available circles in a location, the wound instead becomes a kill.

But in general a location being disabled by a "slow kill" will only prompt a single roll on the Injury Table. Receiving two "slow wounds" although is something I'll need to address.

Fame: Does a gladiator get a point of fame for entering, and two more for winning?

Yes, that's right. One just for showing up and two more for winning.

Really looking forward to any further combats you manage Matt.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 08, 2022, 02:55:35 PM
I can see what you are getting at here - I don't think it has ever came up in a game to date. Although unlikely, a gladiator could suffer a "slow kill" on one location but later have a different location disabled or even suffer two "slow kills" to separate locations. Similarly, they could suffer a flesh wound to a location, followed by a "slow kill" wound to the same location, which would of course disable the location (which I assume was your situation?).

The fighter in question had a slow kill bleeding wound (to the leg if I recall) and two individual flesh wounds to the head which resulted in being disabled. One of the flesh wounds might have been before the slow kill happened. Overall it wasn't a long match! We need to know how bad the modifier is to the recovery roll  :o
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on July 08, 2022, 10:14:22 PM
The fighter in question had a slow kill bleeding wound (to the leg if I recall) and two individual flesh wounds to the head which resulted in being disabled. One of the flesh wounds might have been before the slow kill happened. Overall it wasn't a long match! We need to know how bad the modifier is to the recovery roll  :o

Ah - ok. So clearly this needs to be better explained in the rules, but that would be two individual  injury table rolls. One for the head being disabled (a roll at -1 for head) and the second for the slow kill wound to the leg ( a roll of +0 (+1 for leg and -1 for the slow kill)). Good luck!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on July 14, 2022, 12:35:40 AM
Very nice write-up and photos, Dr M.

I have had a planned game rescheduled a couple of times now. If v1.4 is on the horizon I might hold off until then.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on July 14, 2022, 03:03:44 AM
Very nice write-up and photos, Dr M.

I have had a planned game rescheduled a couple of times now. If v1.4 is on the horizon I might hold off until then.

Ver1.4 is looming but I'm not 100% sure when it will be ready, but I'm hard at it. There are some changes to Special Attacks, the introduction of Apathy and Signature Moves, along with some changes to the match events.

I posted this elsewhere but I forgot to mention that I ran BotS at a small local con and brought my new arena along too. That is Victor in the picture, one of the dedicated play testers, running through a demo.

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigafC7lFdFtwJJSZlGpBPX34EL7UbPgMsyqMEWCiB9RsLNc5YsV2r1meLc_49RUjXtwdTw5_MzMIl8ZRYAUYSDWhcOTVyGNruwU3SAbv-yJ4NItnDyJ6W5wiel59CsljWQO1cOpVDCX4-4Ayl6YqpcrHzy_wjRNLem5SWrMccIAbb5-BGLKJqpiTHPlw/s2048/289874464_573572947717932_8975948453666882003_n.jpg)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicc10MrWTzuGbNW-JaUwmPyRlmVgMhoUDOF7FFXDOD4czXnUIRZIEt7pziZS2eJtWm-Roj8M6RT7kepPB49UXDO6byB1D5p3Lqv1MjsFpeBDoYQdFxpOpurFDvlkSqv5UK2EH7QEFNdUW6DjRqiK8fpjCbanURYQBCPM7-cg5NvaNf2TBw2Zx3EMJMIQ/s2048/290368037_1164777660744837_758415834125627037_n.jpg)

There is more on the arena here https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=137342.0





Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 22, 2022, 04:08:02 PM
I still have my entire set up!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 22, 2022, 06:59:06 PM
MUNUS II

Castur vs. Populus

The first match of munus II pitted two provocators against each other. Castur, an Italian criminal known for his exceptional fierceness was set against Populus, a German prisoner of war known for his great strength. The two probed each others defenses at the beginning, no one landing a major injury, until Castur unleashed his inner beast. Putting his full weight into his scutum, he knocked Populus to the ground and roared to the crowd. He was awarded with their applause. Dazed, Populus allowed the Italian to gain initiative, and put his shield up as many times as he could. Castur rained several blows with his gladius, sapping the prone gladiator's defenses, and finished with a shield strike, pinning the hapless Populus to the ground by the neck with his scutum. The crowd, extremely disappointed by the short and ineffective display, did not grant Populus missio.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-220722180913-558952118.jpeg)

Flava Flavius vs. Aius

The second match of the munus provided a classic Secutor vs. Retiarius confrontation. Flavius was a unruly Thracian slave, and a large one at that- but surprisingly agile. Aius was also a slave, hailing from Hispania, and was quick and very cunning. This bout lasted a bit longer than the previous one, but Flavius kept the pressure on the retiarius. He ended up dealing a wound, and backing Aius up to the arena wall. He bashed the netman to the ground and forced him to ask for missio, which the crowd granted as the retiarius had done just enough to gain some approval.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-220722180913-55896639.jpeg)

MUNUS III

The editor was heard making a disparaging remark about Hoplomachus gladiators, and the lanistae were thankful they hadn't submitted any that munus.

Saurus vs. Cassius Quintus

A murmillo named Suarus was elected for match one- an extremely imposing and large brute, taken as a prisoner of war in Britannia. Paired against him was one of Rome's own, an adored member of the equestrian class that had entered the ludus of Matthias Medico- Cassius Quintus, donning the resplendent gear of the Thracian! Quintus basked in the glow of the adoring crowd, taking it in, the sunlight gleaming off his polished armor. The trumpets blared, and the editor's box was stuffed with local dignitaries.

Then the match started. Saurus strode forward and lashed out with a single simple attack. Quintus raised his shield, but the equestrian must have been distracted by the crowd, as the brute's attack slipped by exceedingly easy. The murmillo's large size, brutal nature, and effective strike resulted in a stunning blow, sliding through the Thracian's arm with ease and killing him instantly. The crowd was stunned into silence, barely able to conceive of what had happened... eventually, reluctantly, clapping for the murmillo.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-220722180913-558972236.jpeg)

Aius vs. Flava Flavius

Eager to try his luck against the Secutor that bested him before, Aius again entered the arena against Flavius. The netman did a better job evading the chaser, but suffered a critical bleeding leg wound early in the fight, which hampered him greatly. He continued to fight well, entangling the secutor briefly, but found himself having a hard time picking up his net on two attempts- he suspected it had been greased by the secutor's lanista. At the matches end, each gladiator had bleeding wounds, and had put forth a valiant effort as they maneuvered around the entire arena. With two wounds bleeding, the Retiarius made a final move, disarming his opponent, before he fell to the ground, exhausted, but with the crowd's favor. Missio was granted.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-220722180913-558981229.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4060-220722180913-55899914.jpeg)

Observation: In case you might be wondering, your gladiator does not want to get hit by a large, brute gladiator with an additional  +2 to the wound table due to a high attack roll. These large gladiators are causing me some serious problems!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2022, 06:08:21 AM
Excellent report Matt. Nice to see you returning to the arena.

Are you soloing this?

Ha! Poor Cassius Quintus. Although fairly rare it does end this way sometimes, especially against a large and brutish opponents.

We had a hoplomachus rush attack his murmillo opponent on the very first turn, and stumbled in a heap at his feet. The murmillo rolled 3 higher and basically put his sword to the hoplomachus' throat. Game over.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: wkeyser on July 23, 2022, 08:30:49 AM
Hi
Has this been published yet? I saw on your blog that you had a producer but that was back 2014-15 or so but cannot find any reference to the game being available.

Thanks
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2022, 01:21:12 PM
Hi
Has this been published yet? I saw on your blog that you had a producer but that was back 2014-15 or so but cannot find any reference to the game being available.

Thanks

No it never did get published because of a difference in visions of the final product.

I am looking for a publisher again now.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 23, 2022, 03:17:38 PM
Are you soloing this?

No, playing once a week with a friend. Until last munus we'd won a match each, so he's a bit ahead now. Both of us have had one gladiator death.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 14, 2022, 03:36:46 PM
Hi Furt,

We finally got to play with my daughter. A few games to relearn the rules and test the mechanics as you can see...
And I must say that you have made some good improvements compared to the previous version. We had a lot of fun and it's nice to be back in BotS and the sand of the arena!

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/czum.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/czum.jpg)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/792d.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/792d.jpg)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/g0zm.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/g0zm.jpg)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/33g3.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/33g3.jpg)

We have created 6 gladiators each and are about to embark on a 2-lanistae campaign. I will be reporting on the fights as the campaign progresses.

I had a few small questions, but the answers are in your exchanges with Muzfish4.
I have one more question to ask: I saw that you can turn a special attack die into an attack die, but can you spend a special attack die to improve the attack roll on a special attack?

However, using your QRS, I realized that there are differences between them and the rulebook. I didn't point out everything carefully, but here are two important ones:

QRS: Feint - the gladiator makes a standard ATTACK! The defending gladiator must make his defense roll before the attack roll.
Rulebook: Feint - the gladiator makes a standard ATTACK! If able, the defending gladiator must spend an available DEFENCE Dice (or parry token) to activate his parry bonus.

QRS : Relentless attack - the gladiator makes a standard ATTACK! If successful, in addition the defending gladiator gains a fatigue.
Rulebook : Relentless attack - the gladiator makes a standard ATTACK! If the attack is successful the defending gladiator must discard one RESPITE Dice, if able.


And, again, I'm really happy about this come back!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 14, 2022, 11:14:45 PM
Hey Eithriall - great to see you back on the sands too and glad you have found the new adjustments to BotS an improvement.

I wish you could post your pics directly into the thread so they are easier to see. You have a really great set up and you've made custom dice too - I haven't even gotten around to that yet.

Looking forward to your reports but I do hope your daughter hasn't treated you too poorly!

Concerning the QRS - I don't usually give out a QRS with the play test document specifically because things get changed so often. Unfortunately in your case the QRS sheet you have already reflects the changes to be made in ver1.4 of the rules. So the QRS should probably supersede the rulebook in this case.

Concerning the SPECIAL Attack dice - they can not be turned into ATTACK dice and they can not be spent to improve neither a standard or special ATTACK.

I'd like to know the specific questions you had that were already answered in the Muzfish4 reply please as it may point out a flaw in the rules.

Again looking forward to your reports.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 15, 2022, 06:45:54 AM
Ok, thx for the answers and we will use the QRS for the start of the campaign.
I will add our questions to the match reports of the campaign.

As suggested earlier, earning more fame for an auctoratio should be fine (+1 at the end of the fight).

For the pics, I just don't remember how to...  o_o
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 15, 2022, 09:18:58 PM
Looking forward to your campaign report.

For the pics, I just don't remember how to...  o_o

I don't think you can just link directly to google drive. They need to be hosted somewhere first.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 16, 2022, 05:14:57 PM
Problem solved with the pics. Thx Furt....
Done the first Munus of the first year of our 2 Lanistae campaign with my daughter, report is coming soon.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 16, 2022, 09:05:30 PM
Problem solved with the pics. Thx Furt....

Excellent! much better.

Done the first Munus of the first year of our 2 Lanistae campaign with my daughter, report is coming soon.

Great - love to hear your thoughts and see your results.

The campaign part of the rules has already had an overhaul in the next version, which should be out soon.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 17, 2022, 04:13:05 PM
Campaign Report

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus I : Arena with a merciful crowd

Game I : Hades vs Tacitus
After the morning venationes, an impatient crowd is waiting for the gladiators to arrive. The first fight of the day pits two Provocatores against each other: Tacitus, a fiery young Parthian prisoner of war (Traits: Fierce and son of Fortuna) and Hades, an auctoratus from the equestrian order eager to prove his worth on the arena sand (Traits: Agile and Adored). The crowd roars with pleasure as he enters the burning sand.
Neither competitor seems impressed by the other one (despite the trait of Tacitus) or by the stakes and both calmly make their way to the center of the arena.

Provocatores fighting
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/758v.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/758v.jpg)

Round 1
Tacitus is the first to start the hostilities. He attacks several times ineffectively his opponent who takes the opportunity to provoke him, but Tacitus keeps his cool.
Hades, violently mistreated, doesn't have the possibility to retaliate, but he manages to play with the crowd in order to mitigate his displeasure of not having seen him attack.

Round 2
Tacitus goes up to the contact and tries a circling attack that tires his opponent. He then slides down his left flank and tries to aim at a specific spot but his blow is easily parried by Hades.
The two fighters then take a moment to breathe, then Hades rushes on his opponent. His speed surprises Tacitus who is wounded in the belly. Fortunately, the wound seems superficial. The public roars with pleasure and encourages the auctoratus. This one wants to force his advantage and advances to place a heavy strike. But it is without counting on the technique of Tacitus. The Parthian POW succeeds in a superb defense. Hades got tired for nothing.

Round 3
Hades tries to regain the ascendancy and slides on the side of Tacitus, but he defends himself well. Two new attacks are again countered by the Parthian shield but Tacitus approaches dangerously the wall of the arena.
Tacitus, seeing that his opponent is getting tired, tries to place a relentless attack, but fails. He then decides to provoke him and succeeds in destabilizing him with some insulting words (1 temporaly forfeited die).

Round 4
Tacitus takes control of the fight and tries to put his opponent out of breath a little more, but fails again.
Hades feels his strength leaving him quickly, after a short breath, he fails twice to hit his opponent who defends very well today.

Round 5
Tacitus moves to the left side of his opponent to get around him and hits him on the side without success. He then tries to tire his opponent by pressing him (relentless attack) and succeeds in hitting his left arm. Hades suffers a flesh wound and additional fatigue.
Tacitus is now unleashed, he strings together attacks, one is parried and the other hits the helmet of Hades, without success.
Hades is badly beaten, but to the general surprise, he makes a superb move and wounds Tacitus in the head despite the helmet. Benefiting from two favor tokens, he then plays with the crowd and wins their fervor.

Round 6
Tacitus seems to have lost his ascendancy while Hades is tired (one die forfeited) and, again, the Parthian is not far from the arena wall.
Hades the auctoratus, moves, attacks, moves again and attacks again despite the fatigue, but Tacitus holds on. He defends wonderfully. Taking advantage of a brief resumption of breathing by Hades, the Parthian connects a circling attack and a driven attack. The latter hits is bull's eye and inflicts a terrible wound to the stomach of the Roman Provocator (slow kill), forcing him to give up immediately.
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/xfqk.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/xfqk.jpg)

Some shouts of despair came down from the stands, Hades was clearly the public's favorite but the crowd applauds both fighters for the good show they delivered.
The crowd, particularly merciful today and satisfied with this fair game, let Hades leave the arena and try to heal his nasty wound.

Victory for Tacitus (Lanista : Franck).
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/s4rw.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/s4rw.jpg)

Tacitus : fame 4
+1 fame for entering the match
+2 fame for winning the match
+1 fame if you ended the match with two favour tokens (removed of the sheet before the picture).

Hades : fame 2
+1 fame for entering the match
+1 fame if you ended the match with two favour tokens

Injury : Vitals not healed - start the next game with a wound at the affected location


Year I / Munus I : Arena with a merciful crowd

Game II : Mordax vs Armipotens
After a few fights from other Ludi, it's time for the second pair of fighters of the Lanistae Franck and Julia to face each other.

This time, the fight is between another big Parthian prisoner of war named Armipotens (means « belligerent ») (traits : large and Son of Nemesis) using the Hoplomachus armatura and a huge german "mountain" prisoner of war named Mordax (traits : strong and large) fighting as a Murmillo.
If the two fighters are nervous, because the public is now unleashed, they do not show it and they challenge each other without trembling.

Round 1
The massive German POW, aware that his strength can quickly put an end to the fight (rolls on wound table +4 = +1 Brute class trait, +1 Strong trait + 2 Large trait!!!), rushes directly at his opponent and attacks him with ardor (Impetus attack). His attempt fails, well blocked by the spear of the Hoplomachus. His next attack is, again, easily parried by Armipotens.
The Parthian knows how dangerous the German is, so he prefers to use his reach and avoid contact (extended lunge). But Mordax is an iron fortress. He parries the blow and his equipment allows him to take the next blow without flinching.

Round 2
Armipotens keeps the initiative and turns around his opponent looking for an opening, he suddenly places a powerful attack that explodes the right arm of the Murmillo! The public exlaims as the German drops his sword under the power of the impact (slow kill + disfavour token).
The Hoplomachus presses his opponent (flank attack), he knows that he can finish the fight, but by miracle, the German parries the blow with his shield. A driven attack then forces him to back off. He breathes with difficulty and is no longer able to attack as his lead arm gushes blood, the crowd whistles at him as he catches his breath (one more disfavour token). But we don't know how, he managed to provoke the Parthian (1 forfeited die).

Round 3
Somewhat stubborn and aware that he hasn't proved anything yet, the German doesn't even think of giving up and rushes on his sword. Although hampered by the Parthian, the Murmillo managed to recover his weapon and place an attack parried by his opponent.
Armipotens uses another extended lunge special attack, forcing Mordax to parry, then move around and tries another attack that tires his opponent after having provoked him.
Mordax wavers, but that's nothing compared to what awaits him because the Hoplomachus manages an unstoppable attack (double 6 rolled) that inflicts a new wound on the lead arm of the Murmillo. His arm is now disabled and he must appeal to the crowd while he bleeds…
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/s174.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/s174.jpg)

Because of his poor match, the public is not kind to him and scolds for his death.
Appeal roll : dice 7+1(merciful crowd)-2(disfavour tokens) = 6
Mordax is put to death.
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/oo9r.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/oo9r.jpg)

(fast!) Victory for Armipotens (Lanista : Julia).
(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/kt9v.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/kt9v.jpg)

Armipotens : Fame 4
+1 fame for entering the match
+2 fame for winning the match
+1 fame if you ended the match with two favour tokens


Question : does a slow kill benefit +1 fame (is this considered a kill wound) ?


Thoughts : The atmosphere of the Bots I knew is still there, because the game really tries to take into account the historical and cultural dimension of the gladiature.
I like the changes that have been made to the previous version. The disappearance of skills and the defense system with dice and parry tokens are good things.
The artworks are great and the overall design of the different sheets really nice. We didn't have any problems understanding the game because the rules are pretty straightforward and well written but we need to play more amaturae and different traits. We haven't played enough to test the balance of the whole system yet, but we've had a lot of fun and, once we understand the rules, the games move pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 17, 2022, 10:11:13 PM
Wonderful reports Franck!  :-*

I know how much time detailing the combats round by round takes - thanks so much for doing that.

These desperate combats are what I sought when writing Blood on the Sands and it sound like yours have delivered in spades!

It also appears that you have managed the rules with little to no problems which is very comforting to hear.

In my play testing we found, like yours, that the duels involving paired provocatore can be longer events. It sounded like a tense fight. But who is the Hermes fellow that appears in turn 6? A suppositicius?!?!  ;)

I'm glad to see the giant German, who should have taken the hoplomachus' head clean off, was defeated. If he could only have managed a strike and not dropped his gladius it would have been a much different bout. The only thing I could see possibly wrong here is I believe the hoplomachus was using the Step Inside? The Step Inside attack is used against an opponent with a long weapon (spear, trident).

A slow kill is not considered a kill wound for the +1 fame.

The campaign game has had some changes and I am almost ready to release ver1.4. I have given the auctoratus back their +1 fame, but only if they win their match. As well, should they gain the rudis they will be more likely to leave the arena.

Again thanks Franck, a great report and I look forward to more.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on August 18, 2022, 04:22:36 AM
I'll echo Furt's sentiments - great match reports which make compelling reading.

Looking forward to v1.4.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 18, 2022, 06:29:14 AM
But who is the Hermes fellow that appears in turn 6? A suppositicius?!?!  ;)

The only thing I could see possibly wrong here is I believe the hoplomachus was using the Step Inside? The Step Inside attack is used against an opponent with a long weapon (spear, trident).

A slow kill is not considered a kill wound for the +1 fame.

I have given the auctoratus back their +1 fame, but only if they win their match. As well, should they gain the rudis they will be more likely to leave the arena.

Hermes! LOL  lol

For the step inside, I think I've made a mistake with the +2 modifier, should be a flank attack (Hoplomachus special).

Rolling the characters I was sure Mordax would be a killing machine....An agile Hoplomachus proves me wrong! Such a surprise.

Ok for the answers about the kill wound and the fame of an auctoratus.
Corrections made in the report.

Next Munus is annouced with a Secutor/Retiarus  and an Thraex/Hoplomachus fights.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 18, 2022, 12:16:48 PM
For the step inside, I think I've made a mistake with the +2 modifier, should be a flank attack (Hoplomachus special).

Yes, makes sense.

Next Munus is annouced with a Secutor/Retiarus  and an Thraex/Hoplomachus fights.

Looking forward to your thoughts on a Secutor vs Retiarius. One of the most challenging pairing to balance mechanics-wise.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 21, 2022, 04:53:32 PM
Campaign Report

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus II : Arena with barbed posts (but figured by miniature paint bottles)  :D

Game I : Flamma vs Funestus

The afternoon is already well advanced and the previous fights have heated up the crowd. Here comes the Hoplomachus Flamma, a ferocious convicted criminal from Numidia (Traits: Fierce and Son of Mars) and his opponent, Funestus, a strong plebeian volunteer fighting as a Thracian (Traits : Strong and Resilient). Neither of them seems particularly impressed as they both take their places in the middles of four impressive barbed posts.

Round 1
Funestus immediately takes the initiative but cannot find an opening in his opponent's guard. He circles around him, but is unable to place an attack. So he is content to provoke the hoplomachus (1 forfeited die) and to stay at a distance (1 disfavour token).
Flamma tries to pursue his opponent, but he is not as fast. He is not able to attack either (1 disfavour token).

Round 2
The Hoplomachus steps forward and places a magnificent special attack (double 6 on an Extended Lunge) and wounds the Thraex in the lead leg (flesh wound). The audience exults and Flamma erases the disfavour he won earlier.
He then takes the opportunity to play with the crowd, but he hasn't done enough for them to give him more.
Funestus, now pissed off by the wound, moves and tries a Hook around special attack. He hits the helmet of his opponent who is breathless (1 more fatigue for Flamma).

Round 3
The Hoplomachus keeps the initiative and rushes at his opponent who parries the attack. He moves to attempt a circling attack, but Funestus blocks it with his shield. Enraged, Funestus tries again a specialty of his armatura (Hook around) and inflicts a flesh wound to the rear leg of his opponent.
As the audience applauds and Flamma steps back, then he follows up with a move and a terrible attack that hits Flamma's torso inflicting a slow kill.
The Hoplomachus gasps painfully and tries to preserve himself (respite and recovers his forfeited die), then places an extended lunge which is easily defended by Funestus.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/xl9d.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/xl9d.jpg)

Round 4
Funestus wants to finish the fight, but he takes the time to breathe while his opponent bleeds, then rushes back to him (despite the fatigue). Flamma manages to parry the attack but gets carried away by a new provocation (1 forfeited die).
The Hoplomachus has difficulty to link the attacks. He looks for his breath and does not dare to approach Funestus. He places a new attack at distance (Extended lunge) easily defended by the Thraex.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/5eoj.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/5eoj.jpg)

Round 5
The Plebeian Auctoratus takes the time to breathe before rushing once again on Flamma. This last parries the blow and succeeds in not cracking during a new provocation of the Auctoratus.
Flamma moves around and attacks without success. Really tired and feeling his forces abandon him, he throws himself on Funestus but fails to touch him. A last extended lunge also fails. The Numidian thinking his end is near, prefers to admit his defeat and try his luck in front of the crowd.

Unfortunately, the public does not seem to consider that he has done enough and does not grant him life (Appeal to the crowd roll : 2d6-1=5).
Flamma is put to death.

Victory for Funestus (Lanista : Julia)

Funestus : fame 4
+1 fame for entering the match
+2 fame for winning the match
+1 fame for auctoratus winning the match

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/mh4z.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/mh4z.jpg)



Year I / Munus II : Arena with barbed posts (but figured by miniature paint bottles)  :D

Game II : Durus vs Nocentianus

While the blood of the Numidian criminal is slowly drunk by the sand, here comes the Retiarius Durus, a vigorous volunteer from the Roman plebs (Traits: Resilient and Vigorous). The crowd rarely appreciates this armatura, but it hesitates to whistle the warrior who comes from its ranks.
Then it is the turn of Nocentianus to enter on the burning sand. He’s an arabian unruly slave, but is strong and cunning and these traits are is enough to unnerve the Retiarus (1 forfeited die).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/hllz.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/hllz.jpg)

Round 1
The Secutor is the quickest to react and moves before making an pursuing attack parried by Durus' trident. Another attack fails to hit the opponent. Confident in his strength, the slave manages to scare his opponent a little more (successful provocation – Durus has now 2 temporary forfeited dice).
Durus is already in trouble, he approaches the Secutor, but does not come into contact. He simply places a distance attack (extended lunge) which is parried by the scutum of Nocentianus.

Round 2
The Retiarus succeeds in destabilizing his opponent by inveighing him, then attacks him again from a distance with his trident. The Secutor's shield resists this new attack. Durus stays at a distance and catches his breath.
Nocentianus takes advantage of the moment to recover his forfeited die and places a new pursuing attack to stay in contact but Durus managed to defend himself and also to counter the next attack.

Round 3
Durus does not know which strategy to use (he has only 4 action dice). He maneuvers around his opponent and tries to place a new trident attack, but it fails.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/ucb3.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/ucb3.jpg)

The Secutor knows how to defend himself and feels at his advantage. He moves fast and attacks. The Retiarus makes a mistake in his defensive posture (double 1 rolled). Luckily, he only comes out breathless (+1 fatigue). Then the Arabian slave places a heavy attack which is again very badly defended (double 1 rolled again!!!). The sword hits Durus in the head inflicting him a very nasty wound (slow kill). The plebeian is forced to give up.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/33/ej4q.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/33/ej4q.jpg)

Again, the crowd is not very merciful and does not grant life to the plebeian who is put to death (Then, in truth, I hate it!)  :?
(Appeal to the crowd roll : 2d6-1=5).

Victory for Nocentianus (Lanista : Julia)

Funestus : fame 3
+1 fame for entering the match
+2 fame for winning the match

So, no problems raised with the rules but I had a hard time digesting my two gladiators put to death by the crowd. I also made a lot of very bad dice rolls. It will be better next time, if the Gods want it...
My daughter should soon give her thoughts on the game.

Edit : I really wanted to spare the life of the Hoplomachus. I think I was too optimistic, to abandon without favour token... And for the Retiarus, the fight was really to short to have a opinion about the armatura. I really had no luck with him. Need to try this again.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 21, 2022, 09:40:45 PM
Another excellent munus and report Franck!  :)

It looks like the House of Julia is on a real winning streak. I'd like to hear the thoughts of such a successful lanista.

The Appealing to the Crowd mechanic has received an overhaul in the next update, which may have saved your gladiators. Mid range rolls, like your rolls of 5, means that the decision moves from the crowd to the Editor and you get to appeal again with a few different modifiers. As you are aware the death rates of actual gladiators were relativity low and I hope to balance that in BotS a bit better.

It is a real shame the retiarius did not get to throw his rete, as I would like to have see the results. It seems he started on the wrong foot and had a run of bad dice rolls.

Lastly it did not appear the barbed palus caused too much concern. We have found our fights have a much different feel when obstacles are introduced.

Looking forward to more from the House of Franck to come...
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 22, 2022, 12:06:34 PM
Yes, my daughter kicks ass! 8)

I know gladiatorial combats weren't that lethal. Glad to read you're going to refine the subject. I can't wait to see rules v1.4.

With the Retiarus I haven't had the time or the dice to really try something but the next Munus should see a fight between Julia's Retiarus and my Secutor. Things will probably be different.

Yes, the barbed poles had an impact. No one collided with them but we were very careful with our moves even though I didn't made that clear in the report.

Thx for your comments.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2022, 07:54:58 AM
Blood on the Sands version 1.4 should have been emailed out to the current active play testers.

Please do not hesitate to ask any questions.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on August 23, 2022, 08:17:32 AM
The Eagle has landed.

Should be bale to get them onto the board in the next week or two once Winter sport winds down for the Little Fish.

In ital thoughts are that they look good.

Looking forward to reading more session reports here too.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: cadbren on August 23, 2022, 09:45:49 AM
So it's a game to see who'll be queen bee.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2022, 01:28:58 PM
The Eagle has landed.

Should be bale to get them onto the board in the next week or two once Winter sport winds down for the Little Fish.

In ital thoughts are that they look good.

Looking forward to reading more session reports here too.

Excellent. Hope you and Craig can get in some games.

So it's a game to see who'll be queen bee.

I'm not sure I know what to make of this comment.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 23, 2022, 05:17:54 PM
Blood on the Sands version 1.4 should have been emailed out to the current active play testers.
Ho nice!  :-*

I've already read the new stuff on my lunch time  :D and I'm very pleased by your improvements. It's very good.
The apathy, the signature moves and the changes for the campaign (munus and match events).
And of course, I'm very happy with the new Appeal to the crowd table...because with 3 gladiators put to death by the crowd in 4 fights I was  :? :'(

With the new Distribute Tier Levels I think we're gonna reboot our campaign start...
I can't wait to test it all.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 23, 2022, 09:54:46 PM
I've already read the new stuff on my lunch time  :D and I'm very pleased by your improvements. It's very good.
The apathy, the signature moves and the changes for the campaign (munus and match events).
And of course, I'm very happy with the new Appeal to the crowd table...because with 3 gladiators put to death by the crowd in 4 fights I was  :? :'(

With the new Distribute Tier Levels I think we're gonna reboot our campaign start...
I can't wait to test it all.

Glad you approve Franck.

The Appeal to the Crowd Table has needed adjusting for some time as the death rate was a little too high with tiro gladiators. A friend (and vigorous play tester) made the brilliant suggestion to bring in a second roll from the editor and I think it works really nicely.

Unfortunately the version update came at a poor time for you, but it would likely make sense to reboot your campaign. Makes for good practice anyway so you may work up to actually winning a match against your daughter.  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 24, 2022, 10:23:37 AM
The Appeal to the Crowd Table has needed adjusting for some time as the death rate was a little too high with tiro gladiators. A friend (and vigorous play tester) made the brilliant suggestion to bring in a second roll from the editor and I think it works really nicely.

Really nice idea indeed.

Unfortunately the version update came at a poor time for you, but it would likely make sense to reboot your campaign. Makes for good practice anyway so you may work up to actually winning a match against your daughter.  lol
o_o  lol

One question reading the rules : as a fervour token count as a bonus Laurel dice, can you use it to discard an apathy token ? As the dice is temporary forfeited to do so, what if using fervour token ?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 24, 2022, 10:49:42 AM
One question reading the rules : as a fervour token count as a bonus Laurel dice, can you use it to discard an apathy token ? As the dice is temporary forfeited to do so, what if using fervour token ?

Great question Franck, but no. The rule states specifically that a Laurel Dice must be forfeited, the forfeited part being most important. I could probably make it clearer that a fervour token can not be implemented in this situation although.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 24, 2022, 03:15:10 PM
Great question Franck, but no. The rule states specifically that a Laurel Dice must be forfeited, the forfeited part being most important. I could probably make it clearer that a fervour token can not be implemented in this situation although.
I honestly understood it that way but I prefer to ask for confirmation.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 25, 2022, 12:31:59 PM
Julia and I have prepared 12 new gladiators according to the v1.4 rules (2 Tiro and 4 Tier1 each) and are about to start a new campaign.

The more I read the rules, the more I think that you have brilliantly captured the essence of the fights and the atmosphere that goes with them. The game is very fun while reflecting the ultra tactical aspect of the battles. Once you've learned the rules, the fights are pretty quick.

On the Gladiator sheets the spaces to remind the attack and defense bonuses are a good idea.
If the game gets a professional edition (and I really wish it would), there should be tokens to manage all the traits and bonuses/malus (like the Claustrophobia 1643 characters sheets).

1st Munus of v1.4 coming soon
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Cubs on August 25, 2022, 01:28:50 PM
Has anyone done the dodgy joke about the Roman cannibal who killed his wife? He was gladiator.

Ay thang yo.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 25, 2022, 08:19:32 PM
The more I read the rules, the more I think that you have brilliantly captured the essence of the fights and the atmosphere that goes with them. The game is very fun while reflecting the ultra tactical aspect of the battles. Once you've learned the rules, the fights are pretty quick.

That's great to hear and yes once the initial concept of how to play is learned the combats can go quickly. The original version had the potential to drag on but the fatigue mechanic will usually take care of that now.

On the Gladiator sheets the spaces to remind the attack and defense bonuses are a good idea.
If the game gets a professional edition (and I really wish it would), there should be tokens to manage all the traits and bonuses/malus (like the Claustrophobia 1643 characters sheets).

I had to look up Claustrophobia 1643 but I get your idea.

Has anyone done the dodgy joke about the Roman cannibal who killed his wife? He was gladiator.

I've never heard that one and had to admit I had a chuckle. You'll be here all week, try the veal Cubs?  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 26, 2022, 06:03:09 AM
We have done our first fight from the first Munus of our new campaign and guess what ?!?  ??? :'(

So my one and only request is to subtly modify the "Appeal to the crowd" table as such :
2-4 : Iugula!
5-7 : Devided! Appeal to the Editor
8-12 : Mitte!

I will do the whole report of the Munus after playing the second fight but the first one was great and ardently disputed.
We really enjoyed it.
 :) :) ;)

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 26, 2022, 06:24:05 AM
So my one and only request is to subtly modify the "Appeal to the crowd" table as such :
2-4 : Iugula!
5-7 : Devided! Appeal to the Editor
8-12 : Mitte!

I'm guessing the Editor was not kind...

 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 26, 2022, 06:04:46 PM
On the Gladiator sheets the spaces to remind the attack and defense bonuses are a good idea.
If the game gets a professional edition (and I really wish it would), there should be tokens to manage all the traits and bonuses/malus (like the Claustrophobia 1643 characters sheets).

This kind of stuff for the Tessera Gladiatoria. The idea is to have the less things to write....

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/ci3j.png) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/ci3j.png)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/bdtk.png) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/bdtk.png)

An this kind for the gladiator play sheet (cut cardboard) with some spaces for dice, wound tokens, fatigue tracker...

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/u4fh.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/u4fh.jpg)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 27, 2022, 04:34:16 PM
Campaign Report (rules v1.4)

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus I

Munus event : Blood soaked arena

Game I : Atrox (Murmillo) vs Funestus (Thraex)

Match event : no match event

After the Pompa, the gladiators enter on a bloody arena as the audience chanted their names and demanded action. Here comes the terrible Atrox, an infamous Italian villain condemned to fight in the arena (a Murmillo tier 1 with traits : Strong/Fierce/Resilient). He faces Funestus, a strong Numidian condemned criminal fighting with the Thraex armatura (tier 1 with traits : Quick, Left hander, Strong). The Numidian seems impressed by the reputation of the Italian bandit and enters the arena trembling (unnerve roll : 1 temporarly forfeited die).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/pd97.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/pd97.jpg)

Round 1
Sure of his strenght the Murmillo advances quickly but fails in an attempt to disarm his opponent. A second attack is parried by the parmula of the Thraex.
Then Funestus moves around the Murmillo (circling attack) and hits his lead leg but without succeeding in hurting him (1 fatigue). Once on the right of the Murmillo his next attack with the sica is parried by the scutum of Atrox. He tries to provoke his opponent, but the Italian bandit keeps his nerves.

Round 2
Funestus takes the initiative (and gets his forfeited die back), then moves and attacks, but the Murmillo defends himself.
Atrox reduces the distance and gives a big blow to the Thraex whith a shield strike with the scutum but the Numidian makes an great defence (double 6 rolled). Atrox surprised by the reaction of the Numidian manages not to fall.

Round 3
Atrox moves and tries to disarm his opponent again. The attack is easily parried.
Then he tries another shield strike and wounds the Thraex to the leg (flesh wound) and exchanges a laurel die with a fervour token.
Funestus answers with a hook around attack and inflicts a flesh wound to the lead arm of the Murmillo. He next plays with the crowd who responds favorably and takes the time to breathe a little.

Round 4
Atrox presses the Numidian criminal with a heavy strike but well defended. Another attack is parried again.
Funestus tries to bypass the scutum of the Murmillo with a hook around, but his attack fails. A heavy strike is once again parried by the Italian. Then the Thraex controls his breath.

Round 5
Funestus takes the initiative and makes an attack easily parried by the Murmillo, but his second strike wounds the lead leg despite the ocrea which starts to bleed. He then fails to play with the crowd and to provoke Atrox.
Atrox is now fatigued (1 permanently forfeited die). He takes some time to breathe then moves and attacks but without success.

Round 6
Atrox tries to react by sticking to his enemy (circling attack). His attacks fails and the next one, an heavy one, is parried by the Thraex. An attempt to play with the crowd is a failure.
Funestus moves his sica around the shield and wounds the Murmillo to his rear arm (flesh wound) as the crowd roars with pleisure. He moves and attacks heavily but the scutum withstands the shock. The Thraex is now unleashed and move to hit again and badly the Italian to his lead arm (deep wound – second bleed token). A last aimed attack glides down the arm of the Murmillo whithout leaving a trace. This attempt to disabled his lead arm has failed but the Murmillo has to forfait a second die permanently.

Round 7
Funestus holds the initiative hoping to finish the fight. He moves around (circling attack) and inflicts a wound to the torso of the Murmillo (flesh wound). Then he hits his opponent in the helmet with another hook around, inflicting a fatigue.
Atrox is covered with blood, near exhausted and without any real possibility to act. Feeling its end very near, he plays a last time with the crowd with success before turning to the referee to admit his defeat.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/0ewo.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/0ewo.jpg)

Appeal to the crow : 2d6 + 2 favour tokens :  6+2 = 8.
Atrox has to appeal to the Editor but he is caught up with his criminal past.

Appeal to the Editor : 2d6 – 1 condemned criminal : 5 -1 = 4
Atrox is put to death by the Editor.

Victory for Funestus  (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +4 (+3 winning the match, +1 two favour tokens)



Year I / Munus I :

Munus event : Blood soaked arena

Game II : Asprinus (Retiarius) vs Ajax (Secutor)

Match event : Good omen (for Asprinus)

Two new gladiators enter the arena, Asprinus a Tiro Plebeian Auctoratus (tier 0 – traits : Aggressive, Resilient) facing Ajax an agressive unruly Greek  slave (tier 1 – traits : Vigorous, Agile, Agressive).
Both fighters remain calm before the match (no unnerved opponent).

Round 1
Asprinus not impressed by the tier 1 of his opponent moves and succeeds to hit directly the Secutor with an unstoppable strike (double 6 rolled). By chance, this is only a glancing blow touching the helmet. Then a extended lunge is parried by the scutum of the Secutor. Asprinus then manages to provoke his opponent (1 forfeited die for Ajax).
Ajax comes to his senses and goes on the attack. He moves to hit the Retiarius with a shield strike, but the Auctoratus defends beautifully (double 6 rolled again!). Ajax stumbles and loses it means (1 forfeited die – the second in same row).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/x3b4.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/x3b4.jpg)

Round 2
Ajax tries to react moving around the Retiarius (circling attack), he fails as his blow is dodged by the trident. Another attack is parried. Ulcerated he insults his opponent who is frightened (1 forfeited die).
Asprinus stays away and realize an extended lunge with his trident but parried by the scutum. Then a driven attack is no more effective.

Round 3
Asprinus takes the initiative with another extended lunge, but Ajax dodges the blow. He then moves and attacks the Secutor who gets confused (double 1 on defence roll – gaining a fatigue). The next moves and attacks are parried.
Ajax (with not enough dice) can just move and do an attack easily stopped by the trident.

Round 4
Ajax has the initiative, advancing to disarm his opponent, but failing at it.
Asprinus tries another extended lunge without success, then moves and hits the shield of the Secutor.
He takes advantage of his withdraw to breathe.

Ajax is now fatigued (1 permanently forfeited die) and has only 4 action dice available.

Round 5
Asprinus insists with the extended lunge and manages to hit the lead arm of Ajax, causing a fatigue.
At this time, Ajax has no available parry tokens !
The Secutor tries to disarm his opponent without success then moves and hits the Retiarius on his rear arm, but it’s only a glancing blow.

Round 6
Asprinus holds the initiative and tries another extended lundge parried by Ajax. Then he casts his net but fails to entangle his opponent. A circling attack goes into the void, but a driven attack inflicts a flesh wound to the lead arm of the Secutor and force him to enter in the area where the net lies. He’s knocked prone (end of his turn).
Asprinus fails to play with the crowd, it’s not enough.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/oa75.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/oa75.jpg)

Round 7
Ajax takes the lead and manages to stand up. He then rushes the Auctoratus but fails touching him.
His attempt to play with the crowd is a fail, but the one to provoke his opponent is a success (1 forfeited die).
Asprinus moves and conducts a driven attack, then an extended lunge, but the two are parried by the Secutor bending under the blows but not breaking.
Time to breathe for the Retiarius.

Round 8
Ajax hits the head of Asprinus with a shield strike but only inflicting a fatigue.
Asprinus responds, touching the lead arm of the Secutor with a glancing blow.

Round 9
Asprinus attacks with an extended lunge, parried with the scutum. A new driven attack to push the Secutor towards the net fails.
Ajax moves and tries also a driven attack. He hits but only manages to inflict a fatigue to the Retiarius.

Round 10
Ajax needs a respite to catch his breath. A circling attack lined with a driven attack are no more effective.
Asprinus tries an extended lunge, parried, then tries in vain to tire a little more the Secutor with a relentless blow.

Round 11
Ajax pursues his ennemy and hits his head (flesh wound). Not enough to finish the match because he’s now near to be exhausted.
Asprinus uses the same tactic than before. Extended lunge, to force the Secutor to defend, letting him without parry token or defence die.
His next attack is a critical strike (double 6 rolled again!!!). Inflicting a flesh wound to the lead leg of Ajax.
Asprinus plays with the crowd, and the crowd responds with fervour.

Round 12
Asprinus stays at distance and his next attack is dodged. He moves around his opponent and finds an opening in the guard of the Secutor. He hits the head but the roll for the wounds is a double 1, so the Good omen token is used to re-roll, inflicting a deep wound (1 more forfeited die).
At this time, Ajax has 1 temporarily and two permanently forfeited dice. He’s is just able to make a last useless attack to stay close to his adversary.

He finishes the round exhausted (X on the fatigue track) and has to forfeit the match.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/la0o.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/la0o.jpg)

Appeal to the crowd : 2d6 =  4
Ajax is put to death...after a 12 round match...hem!!

Victory for Asprinus (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +5 (+3 winning the match, +1 auctoratus win, +1 two favour tokens)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 27, 2022, 10:27:20 PM
Another two great reports Franck. Thank you for the detailed blow by blow accounts, it must have taken you some time and effort to put it all together.

They were both long matches, but that second match was titanic. Twelve rounds!

Poor House Franck!  :'(

Atrox the Murmillo was sliced and diced by the justly name Thraex, Funestus, only to fall exhausted and face the turned thumb of the Editor.

And Ajax the Secutor, dethroned by the tiro Retiarius, Asprinus, after he put on such a long and thrilling combat, all in that bloody secutor helm!

The House of Julia is truly blessed by the Gods! My denarii are on her.

OK Franck, down to the nitty gritty. I'm sure you aren't thrilled about losing two gladiators after such entertaining fights. I am going over your following suggestion of changing the Appeal to the crowd table:

2-4 : Iugula!
5-7 : Divided! Appeal to the Editor
8-12 : Mitte!

Do you think that will make the difference? Are there are any modifiers on either (appeal to crowd or editor) table that need adjusting?

I'd like to hear your thoughts about playing the mismatched tier fight (Asprinus vs Ajax) as well. Obviously the lower tier won so unlikely Julia felt a balance issue.

Again thanks for doing this Franck.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 28, 2022, 09:13:58 AM
I don't want to minimize the success of Julia but on this games her luck with the dice was just insane and to me a lots of poor dice rolls! The Gods have chosen their side.

In the match between the Thraex and the Murmillo she plays well as the Thraex armatura is her favorite. The Murmillo did well but... Really nothing to say she deserves the victory.

On the other hand, in the match between the Retiarius and the Secutor she doesn't mind with balance issue because of the difference of tier. She just took foolish risks and plays the Retiarius as if he were well armored. She never uses the retreat and was never than more 1 hex to the Secutor. She casts the net only on round 6 and continues to hit with the trident again and again. As a Secutor I did what was expected, chasing and pressing her... I strike multiple times with the scutum but never did more than 4 on the injury table. So, I chase, hit, chase and hit again for a poor result until I was exhausted.

I don't know if my idea for the appeal table will do a real difference. If you're really ready to lower the death risk with the crowd then the table should be :
2-3 : Iugula!
4-6 : Divided! Appeal to the Editor
7-12 : Mitte!

For the modifiers perhaps in the appeal with the crowd table : +1 if you lost a 10 or more rounds match ?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on August 28, 2022, 10:41:25 AM
Campaign Report (rules v1.4)

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus II :

Munus event : no Munus event

Game I : Tetraites (Hoplomachus) vs Vegetus (Murmillo)

Match event : Ill omen (for Tetraites)

This fight opposes two German prisonners of war. Tetraites a tier 1 Hoplomachus (traits Aggressive, Son of Mars and Strong – so a +3 bonus attack) opposed to Vegetus a Murmillo with some experience (tier 1 – traits : Adored, Vigorous, Resilient) but impressed by is blood brother (unnerved – 1 forfeited die).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/fxhr.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/fxhr.jpg)

Round 1
Tetraites goes immediately to his opponent, attacking with a piercing strike well defended by the Murmillo. He tries to provoke Vegetus and play with the crowd without success.
The Murmillo moves and attacks (after exchanging a laurel die to retrieve his forfeited die). He’s blow is parried by the spear. An attempt to play with the crowd is a failure.

Round 2
The Hoplomachus fails to touch the Murmillo then tries an extended lunge. It’s a hit in te lead arm, but only a glancing blow. Tetraites uses a respite to breathe.
Vegetus tries a driven attack, but nicely parried. He now breathes and plays with the crowd cheering him back (1 favour token).

Round 3
Vegetus moves now around his opponent (circling attack), hitting him in the lead leg causing fatigue. An attack on the left flank of the Hoplomachus hitting the arm causes a fatigue as he’s not capable to defend himself properly (double 1 rolled). Then a aggressive provocation forces him to forfeit a die. Vegetus plays again with a crowd and cries of satisfaction are heard.
Tetraites now angry conducts a stunning driven attacks (double 6 rolled). The Murmillo is wounded to the lead arm and starts bleeding (deep wound). Tetraites now plays with the crowd and can hear some roarings and applause under his helmet (1 favour).
He recovers then his forfeited die.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/k5m5.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/k5m5.jpg)

Round 4
Vegetus tries a circling attack parried by Tetraites. The next attack on the left flank of the Hoplomachus is well defended again. Vegetus then uses a respite to catch his breath.
Tetraites takes advantage of the calm to breathe too. He tries next to disarm his opponent, but without success.

Round 5
Tetraites takes the advantage and makes a huge attack (+5 bonus) but….fumble! (double 1 rolled). He forfeits 1 action die.
Vegetus, who tooks advantage of it to not withdraw, attacks on contact and hits the lead leg, inflicting only a fatigue. He now tries a relentless attack parried with success by the Hoplomachus.

Round 6
Vegetus attempts an impetus attack but Tetraites stops him. Trying a relentless attack, the Murmillo succeeds wounding his opponent to his lead arm (flesh wound + 1 fatigue). After that he ventilates thoroughly because he gets tired quickly because of his bleeding (3 respite dice). Trying to avoiding to be fatigued.
Tetraites moves and makes a flank attack (result of 15 on the dice roll). The Ill omen token is used forcing to make the roll again….and again the result is 15! The lead arm of the Retiarius is hit with a….glancing blow (could this be only possible?!).

Round 7
Tetraites is now fatigued (1 permanently and 1 temporarily fofeited dice) but catches the initiative to move and make a heavy strike, hitting the lead arm only for a fatigue result.
Vegetus does a circling attacks that manages to hit the vitals for a direct kill !  :o
(Leaving me a little bitter).

Victory for Vegetus (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +5 (+3 winning the match, +1 two favour tokens, +1 kill wound)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/k5el.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/k5el.jpg)



Year I / Munus II :

Munus event : no Munus event

Game II : Hyperion (Provocator) vs Belliger (Provocator)

Match event : ignore match pairing (which is ignored by lanistae!)

The two gladiators are Briton prisoners of war forced to fight together.
Hyperion a tier 1 Provocator with the Aggessive, Vigorous and Son of Pluto traits. He faces Belliger a tier 0 Provocator with Aggressive and Quick traits.

Non one si unnerved before the match starts.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/34/yuvs.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/34/yuvs.jpg)

Round 1
Hyperion is the first in action, moving around (circling attack). His attempt is well defended by Belliger. Another attack is parried with ease. Hyperion insists, closing his opponent and striking again, but in vain.
Belliger now moves and tries to aim an area without armor but fails doing this. He fails with style as the crowd grants him favour (successful play to the crowd). Self-confident he then provoques his adversary (1 forfeited die).

Round 2
Hyperion is back for the attack, but his circling and driven attacks are parried by the scutum of Belliger.
Then the tier 0 Briton fails in a circling attack lined with a simple strike. Wanting to close his opponent he rushes and hits Hyperion in the rear arm inflicting him a deep wound. He now takes some time the breath because his sequence was tiring.

Round 3
Belliger holds the initiative but his eagerness works against him (double 1 rolled on attack). However he manages to keep his balance. He recovers and places a beautiful attack ont the torso of Hyperion but only causing him fatigue.
Hyperion tries to breath and he retrieves is forfeited die. His next move an attack have no effect.

Round 4
Belliger still holds the initiative, breathing then trying a circling attack hitting the lead arm of Hyperion in a glancing blow.
Hyperion needs air then advances and strikes Belliger in the same way Belliger did a few seconds ago, touching his lead arm in a glancing blow. Hyperion takes now another respite.

Belliger is now fatigued (1 permanently forfeited die).

Round 5
Hyperion has now the initiative and does a drivent attack parried by his opponent. Then he stumbles while trying to give a new blow (double 1 rolled on attack). He avoids losing his balance. He tries to place a relentless attack but fails at it. His last action is to catch his breath.
Belliger moves and presses (driven attack) but the blow is parried. He advances again and strikes but Hyperion succeeds in a magnificent defense (double 6 rolled). Luckily Belliger does not fall.

Hyperion is now fatigued (1 permanently forfeited die).

Round 6
Hyperion advances and tries to move on the right flank but his attack fails. The next attempt his well parried by his adversary.
Belliger moves clos to Hyperion but fails in a driven attack.

Round 7
Hyperion fails attempting a circling attack and his next sword stroke is parried. He takes some time the breath (2 respite dice).
Belliger has no better luck failing in a circling and a disarm attacks. He needs to catch his breath too.

Round 8
Hyperion holds the initiative and succeeds in a fierce strike (double 6 rolled). Belliger is hit in his lead arm (flesh wound). Hyperion plays with the crowd but in vain. He then breathes aloud (2 respite dice).
Belliger tries to hit Hyperion with his shield but without result. Then he strikes with force (relentless attack) hitting in the torso of Hyperion taking his breath away (2 fatigues for Hyperion).

Round 9
Hyperion is near exhausted, he respites again and tries two attacks (circling + relentless) that are parried by Belliger.
Belliger can no longer touch his opponent but fails to just exhaust him. He too is now very tired and take time to breathe (2 respite dice).

Round 10
Belliger takes the initiative and places his last forces in a circling and a relentless attacks. He hits his opponent inflicting him 2 more fatigues (Hyperion is now exhausted).
It’s the last chance for Hyperion to do something before being suffocated. He moves and attacks but Belliger succeeds in the best defense of his life (double 6 rolled!). One more fatigue for Hyperion (already on the X of the track). He plays a last time with the crowd but with no reward.

Hyperion forfeits the math because of his exhaustion.

Appeal to the crowd : 2d6 +1 = 10
Hyperion will return to fight.
Fame + 2 (+1 offered Missio, +1 two favour tokens)

Victory for Belliger (Ludus of Franck)
Fame +4 (+3 winning the match, +1 two favour tokens)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on August 28, 2022, 11:52:31 AM
I don't know if my idea for the appeal table will do a real difference. If you're really ready to lower the death risk with the crowd then the table should be :
2-3 : Iugula!
4-6 : Divided! Appeal to the Editor
7-12 : Mitte!

I think that configuration favours them too much. Regardless of the historical inaccuracy, the gameplay element  must come first and there must exist a reasonable chance (and fear) of a gladiator being put to the sword. I do understand that it seems you have experienced more than your fair share of the Iugula! result although Franck.

For the modifiers perhaps in the appeal with the crowd table : +1 if you lost a 10 or more rounds match ?

The only problem I see with this modifier is that a long match would not automatically equate to a well fought match in the eyes of the crowd.

Julia's lucky dice rolls continue! Tetraites the Hoplomachus appeared to have the makings of a real champion, alas, a thrust to the groin with a gladius will often burst those aspirations.

All I can say is thank the gods Hyperion was spared! It really does not seem to worry these tiros facing down the tier 1 gladiators.

Again, Franck, thanks for your great reports.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on September 03, 2022, 05:07:36 PM
Campaign Report (rules v1.4)

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus III :

Munus event : no Munus event

Game I : Ermanamer (Thraex) vs Funestus (Thraex)

Match event : Ignore match pairing (Julia chooses his Thraex Funestus already victorious in the first Munus of the year. She secretly wants him to be his best fighter)

Ermanamer is a tall german POW tier 1 Thraex (traits : Large, Cautious, Agile).
Funestus is a Numidian condemned criminal. A tier 1 Thraex (traits : Quick, Left hander, Strong).

None of the fighter is unnerved before the match starts.

Round 1
Ermanamer is the first in the fight. A vicious hook around is well defended by Funestus. The German manages to immediately provoke his opponent (1 temporarily forfeited die).
Funestus reacts with a circling attack parried by Ermanamer. Then he recovers his forfeited die before inflicting a terrible wound to his adversary with a massive attack. Slow kill on the lead arm. Ermanamer drops his sica and starts bleeding (1 disfavour).

Round 2
Funestus gets the initiative but his attack is parried by Ermanamer. Then he moves towards the space between the sica and the German prisoner of war, blocking the way to the weapon. As the crowd roars, the Numidian plays with it and is rewarded by a favour token (his second token).
Ermanamer has no choice, he has to recover his weapon. He chooses to do a driven attack to push Funestus on the hex with the sica. With his empty hand, he succeeds to touch the helmet of Funestus (glancing blow), no injury but that’s enough to push back Funestus. The Numidian avoids the trap. Ermanamer moves again and tries to disarm Funestus but without success. Time to respite.

Round 3
Funestus holds the initiative but chooses to give it to Ermanamer. Surprising choice but he seems sure of himself.
So, the German succeeds to rearm himself then moves and attacks but the Numidian does a gorgeous defense.
Funestus uses his Quick trait but fails his circling attack. His next attack touches the rear leg of the German inflicting a fatigue.

Round 4
Funestus moves around with a new circling attack. He hits the head of Ermanamer but only with a glancing blow. A hook around just hits the target (equal roll dice) but succeeds to inflict a terrible wound to the rear arm of Ermanamer (slow kill, again). The German drops his shield, forfeit one die and gain one disfavour). But it’s still not enough ! Funestus moves again and hits again the rear arm with a driven attack. He just kills Ermanamer right away (13 rolled after modifiers).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/2nyh.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/2nyh.jpg)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/xssw.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/xssw.jpg)
 
Victory for Funestus  (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +5 (+3 winning the match, +1 two favour tokens, +1 kill wound)
Funestus is now tier 2.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/1n07.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/1n07.jpg)



Year I / Munus III :

Munus event : no Munus event

Game II : Iniuriosus (Hoplomachus) vs Crixus (Murmillo)

Match event : training posts

The fight opposes 2 tiro gladiators (tier 0). Iniuriosus, a German POW (traits : Quick, Large) versus Crixux an auctoratus with the Murmillo armatura (plebeian volunteer with traits : Vigorous and Son of Pluto).

Non one si unnerved before the match starts.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/v76l.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/v76l.jpg)

Round 1
Crixus gains the initiative. He moves and does a circling attack, wounding the lead arm of the Hoplomachus (flesh wound). Still in contact, he hits the same arm a second time, inflicting another flesh wound. The game starts strong as the crowd exults.
Iniuriosus is surprised. He does an extended lunge, easily parried, then moves towards the Murmillo but his attack is to weak. His attempt to impress the Roman is a fail.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/au65.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/au65.jpg)

Round 2
Crixus is hot and holds the initiative. He moves then attacks ferociously. The Hoplomachus is destabilized and does a catastrophic defense (double 1 rolled). He’s wounded to the head despite the helmet (flesh wound). With his 3rd wound, The Hoplomachus has to forfeit permanently a die. Crixus takes advantage of the situation succeeding to provoke his opponent (another forfeited die).
Iniuriosus struggles to close the distance. An attack and an extended lung are parried by the Murmillo’s scutum.

Round 3
Crixus is on fire. He’s got the initiative again and rushes the Hoplomachus. An aimed strike hits the lead arm for the third time, inflicting a new flesh wound.

Iniurosus has to forfeit the match he’s lead arm is now disabled.

Appeal to the crowd : 2d6-1 (did not wound his opponent) = 5 = divided.
Appeal to the Editor : 2d6 = 7 = Mitte.
Fame +1 (+1 offered Missio)

Victory for Crixus (Ludus of Franck)
Fame +5 (+3 winning the match, + 1 auctoratus win, +1 two favour tokens)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/35/nz2b.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/35/nz2b.jpg)

The next Munus to follow will be the Saturnalia...


Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on September 05, 2022, 01:23:35 PM
Last weekend my opponent and I managed to find the time to give v.1.4 a run on the Table of Honour. We managed two bouts before time was called. We played them as ‘standalone’ games but did roll for (different) Munus events and Match events just to get a bit more breadth of experience in our playtesting.

1.   Secutor vs Retiarius.
The classic matchup that never gets old. This one was played out in a heatwave with Good Omens going to the Chaser.

I put forward my finest egg-helmeted dude, a criminal Numidian, whose combination of traits (Aggressive and Chaser) gave him plenty of options in action dice modification. Being Resilient and taking one off my opponent’s wound roll was also super handy. The netman was also able to chop and change with the Evasive trait alone making him almost spoilt for choice.

(https://i.imgur.com/CMvHHmr.jpg)
Above: View from the cheap seats, the bout begins

The match started with a net toss straight away, my opponent’s regular opening gambit with the Retiarius. A good cast early on can be pretty decisive. But losing the net is a risk. Still, if you didn’t want to take risks you shouldn’t have been captured in war (I think this guy was Parthian from memory).  Anyway, out goes the net cast - my Eastern opponent was also a southpaw so we’re pretty sure we were correct in applying the +1 he’d get in any other attack. The throw is a good one but only causes ‘Jugurtha’ to forfeit the single action die. This is followed by a variety of jabs from the trident causing a fatigue rather than a wound (thanks, Resilience).

Jugurtha takes a while to get free of the net. Temporarily losing one die is an annoyance rather than a disaster and he elects to use the laurels he has at his disposal for defence to get the Scutum between him and his demise rather than concentrating on sloughing off the net straight away. Even semi-tangled a Secutor can be a dangerous proposition and after a series of ‘standard’ attacks, aimed strikes and driven attacks – a seemingly weak feint (die roll of five) that the Retiarius attempted to dodge rather than parry (defence roll of 4) – draws blood in the netman’s lead leg . The audience like the splash of claret to confirm that the blades are as sharp as the event promoter promised. The slight lull here allows Jugurtha to divest himself of his impediment and get to work. From here he’d also position himself so that net reclamation was not on the cards.

(https://i.imgur.com/WPFsNdv.jpg)
Above: One and done: the Secutor keeps himself between the net and its owner

While all this has been going on the relentless Italian sun has been beating down and the bareheaded boy from Ecbatana is having the better of it as Jugurtha boils in his heavy gear passing the point of no return on the fatigue track.  This causes him the big man from Bescera to see red and (having no respites or laurels) he elects to push forward and try to land as many attacks as he can. His fresher opponent attempts to weather the storm and grind him down. The Secutor was getting in what felt like three attacks to every riposte but just couldn’t quite pierce the Retiarius’ defences. Things were getting desperate and he was close to collapse from exhaustion but finally managed to draw in his opponent with a feint, taking the last available parry token, and followed it up with a ‘normal’ attack that got through  and inflicted a slow kill on the lead leg again.

“The netman doesn’t have a leg to stand on”, jokes the garum importer next to the Editor and there’s the raised finger seeking Missio. The crowed enjoyed the fight and have no hesitation in sending the Parthian back to the sheds for some treatment and another chance in the arena.

Post-game admin saw Jugurtha progress quite well with a win and two favour tokens while the Ecbatana Entangler gets a point for showing up and, more importantly, the right treatment for him to get the leg healed up quicker than expected. Scar-free too but better than most alternatives.

Post-match thoughts: The bout played out well and with the different options at no stage did either of us feel like there was nothing we could do. The ability to do a two-for-one swap for a manoeuvrer die kept the bout going and the heat wave munus event really influenced the way it played out. Overall, a very enjoyable game that could have gone either way.
 

2.   Provocator vs Thracian
A bit of a fruity one as this ‘no matched pairs’ event had spiky poles set out in the arena to make life difficult for the protagonists. There wasn’t a lot of thought in pairing up the fighters – just using the other class on the print out. In my case, the Thracian and my opponent unpacked his Provocator. Both of them Were Britons recently captured and maybe even from rival tribes (I’m just making this bit up now as I write, like all good sports journalists). In contrast to the last bout, neither of use was able to modify dice at all so it was a case of using what the Gods deliver. We were both fierce so didn’t manage to unnerve each other but the size of the heavily armoured Brigante gave my Thracian Trinovante some pause. Still, the bigger they come and all that.

(https://i.imgur.com/l770uk9.jpg)
Above: Heavy vs medium - the match begins

The match commenced with a bit of a furry of blows from the big man, hard going for the nimble small shield fighter to deal with but he stayed with it and was hooking around with the best of them landing several strikes behind the Scutum of the Provocator but none telling as wherever he hits seems to be very well armoured. By contrast the Big Brigante is stabbing and slapping with his shield using the very handy shield barge special attack as a standard ‘go to’ which works perfectly with his Large physique. Initially, this doesn’t hurt too much but does draw out the parry tokens and sets up the follow-up stab very nicely. One gets through and brushes the torso but even with all his strength behind it a wound roll of 2 isn’t enough to worry the Thracian.

(https://i.imgur.com/9H5V2PD.jpg)
Above: Barbed posts add to the challenges

The match progresses with Togidumnus the Trinovante steadily giving ground and managing one or two attacks a turn but the combination of dice aren’t really letting him exploit his manoeuvrability or replenish his parries so on several turns attack die are unspent as they just can’t be used. Things are a bit more favourable for the Provocator as he managed to get the combinations he needs to keep up the fight – landing a grazing blow through the helmet - but is getting closer to becoming fatigued.

Togidumnus tried to keep the pressure on and push his burly opponent over the fatigue line and is close to doing so when after the regular shield barge is avoided the follow-up heavy strike is not and by a huge margin so it’s +2 on the damage table, along with +1 for the strike and another +2 for being Large. The dice determine that the blow is on the torso and the raw damage roll of 11 (modified up to 16) means that Togidumnus is dead before he hits the sand as the Brigante’s gladius punches through his ribcage and skewers his heart.

(https://i.imgur.com/e3KEjU4.jpg)
Above: The crowd go berserk - the Thracian goes down

There is no after match warm-down for the Thracian but The Provocator does pretty well out of the crowd as he won, with a couple of favour tokens and got his victory with a killing blow – fans will remember him as one to watch in the future.

Post-match thoughts: This played very differently as the mutual inability to alter the action dice meant that it really was a case of playing what we were given. The Thracian is, and remains, one of my favourite classes and has some huge advantages with his hook around attack and Dominant trait so he’s always going to be a tricky proposition but a Provocator with the Large trait is and remains something of a tank. An opponent needs to get lucky to land a telling blow and avoid their shield barge which had me spending a manoeuvre die on trying to avoid the trip on the Collision Table – gotta do it otherwise with a Scutum it’s a 50/50 chance of something bad – or very bad indeed –happening. We took it that for those times without a manoeuvrer die, the target of a shield barge could convert two dice to get one – was that right?

Final thoughts on both matches. Not much more to say than what I have already written. Both bouts played well, but were very different so definitely avoided being ‘samey’. No huge or even small dramas apparent here.  Really, I’d suggest that the rules are pretty much ready to go.

Speaking of rules, here are my observation/ questions on this latest draft:

•   Love the concept of Apathy tokens. They didn’t come into play but are a very effective disincentive for
        players not to stuff around (or throw too much sand).

•   The parries and ‘one off’ tokens worked nicely. Like ‘em.

•   The traits work pretty well. Some are a bit better than others but none are terrible and, as with other
         things in life, a lot of the time it’s not what you have - it’s what you do with it that counts.

•   The new Pursuing attack works well for the Sector – allows them to keep up the pressure but it’s not overpowered in the face of
        the Retiarius’ ability to retreat without disfavour.

•   The turn sequence is very logical and progresses the game nicely.

•   The negative effect of being against the arena wall is interesting, while we didn’t use it, it did figure into my decision making –
        simply to avoid the threat and to also keep it in mind for some of the special attacks which limit or remove an opponent’s ability to
        choose their retreat path.

•   Neither of us tried provoking and only rarely had the leisure to play to the crowd (usually unsuccessfully) as we were too busy with
        other competing priorities.

•   The double 1/double 6 on attack and defence rolls are pretty much bang-on. They add a bit of uncertainty to it all.

•   Of all the new attacks, I really like the feint. It does what it should in drawing out a parry that may be unnecessary and give the
        attacker an edge for later attacks. A simple and superb mechanic that really hits the mark.

•   The new post-match divided crowd outcome looks good. We didn’t use it ourselves but looks quite sensible.

I hope this is helpful. You’re onto a winner here.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on September 05, 2022, 07:05:41 PM
Campaign Report (rules v1.4)

Ludi of Franck and Julia

Year I / Munus IV :  Saturnalia

Munus event : Blood soaked arena

Game I - Opening : Torentius (Retiarius) vs Tigris (Secutor)

Match event : ignore match pairing (ignored by the Lanistae).

Torentius is an Arabian condemned criminal (tier o – traits : Fierce/Large) versus Tigris, another condemned criminal from Egypt (Tier 1 – trait : Fierce/Cunning/Relentless).

Torentius, facing a tier 1 Gladiator in the opening fights of the Saturnalia is a little impressed (1 forfeited die).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/qzd1.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/qzd1.jpg)

Round 1
Tigris (+2 initiative bonus) is the first fighter in action. His attempt in a circling attack is well parried by the trident of Torentius (double 6 rolled) but he manages to keep his balance. He moves again to close the distance but his attack is parried again.
The Retiarius moves then strikes in the wild with the trident. An extended lunge then hits violently the helmet. Tigris shouts and starts to bleed (deep wound to the head).

Round 2
Tigris comes to his senses (respite) then moves to try another circling attack, but defended by Torentius. The next move and attack are parried again.
Torentius who doesn’t want to get closer tries another extended lunge without effect and moves away. He manages to provoke his opponent (1 forfeited die).

Round 3
For the first time, the Retiarius catches the initiative then immediatly moves to cast his net. It’s a hit, but the net does not completely impede his opponent (1 forfeited die).
Tigris uses a fervour token previously exchanded with a laurel die to recover his 2 forfeited dice (Relentless trait). Then he respites and moves to do an inefective attack.

Round 4
Tigris takes the initiative back. He moves and attacks but Torentius dodges the gladius.
Torentius keeps his opponent at a distance with an extended lunge then manages to cross a pool of blood to close his net (+2 moves towards the net).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/a8br.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/a8br.jpg)

Round 5
Tigris is now fatigued and gives the initiative to Torentius.
The Retiarius immediately moves to recover his net and throws it again...but misses the target.
Tigris who took the risk of letting Torentius approach now tries a circling attack to stay close. He hits the lead arm of his opponent inflicting him a deep wound. He’s next relentless attack is a fail.

Round 6
Tigris pushes the Retiarius towards a pool of blood but the Arabian criminal avoids slipping. Another ferocious attack is parried by the trident. Then Tigris moves backward to catch his breath.
Torentius manages to recover his net and he too takes the time to breathe (1 disfavour).

Round 7
Torentius manages to hold the initiative. Wanting to throw his net, he fails to cross another pool of blood to close the Secutor. He drops his net but succeds to immediately recover it and throwing it...but he misses again the target. As his arm bleed, it’s time to respite.
Tigris bleeds too and want to finish the fight. He runs and hits the head of Torentius with a driven attack, only inflicting a fatigue with the hit, but another fatigue by pushing the Retiarius in a pool of blood for a new slide… Time to respite for the Chaser

Torentius is now fatigued.
 
Round 8
Tigris takes some times to breathe (respite x2) then moves for a driven attack. The Retiarius makes a great defense (double 6 rolled) but the Secutor remains solid on his legs.
Torentius tries to fatigue is adversary but fails in his attack. Then he takes some time to breathe and to get his net back.

Round 9
Tigris tries to line different attacks but Torentius escapes every time. Tigris is near exhausted and blows loudly (respite x2).
Torentius doesn't feel good either. After some breaths he moves and strikes with the trident but with no effect.

Round 10
Tigris puts his last forces in two wild attacks, a relentless one easily parried but the next one is just terrific and hits the head of Torentius for a bad wound (slow kill).

Torentius immediately forfeits the match.

Appeal to the crowd= 6 : divided.
Appeal to the Editor = 11 : mitte.
Injury table = unheald
Fame + 2 (+1 missio, +1 Saturnalia)

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/qq9n.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/qq9n.jpg)


Victory for Tigris (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +5 (+3 win, +1 two favour tokens, +1 Saturnalia).
+1 crown

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/y77f.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/y77f.jpg)




Year I / Munus IV :  Saturnalia

Munus event : Blood soaked arena

Game II – Main event : Funestus (Thraex) vs Crixus (Murmillo)

Match event : no match event

The main event of this Munus opposes Funestus the Thraex and best gladiator of the Ludus of Julia (Tier 2 / Traits : Quick/Left hander/Strong/Aggressive + Signature move : Driven Hook around) with Crixus a tier 0 Murmillo but the best fighter that the Ludus of Franck has to offer (Traits : Vigorous/Son of Pluto).

Non one si unnerved before the match starts.

Round 1
Funestus (+2 initiative bonus) is not the best gladiator for nothing ! On his first attempt with his signature move (the terrible Driven Hook around) he directly inflicts a flesh wound to the lead arm of the Murmillo. His next attack is parried and he fails to play with the crowd….as he is the favorite he as to show more.
Crixus not impressed goes to the assault but his eagerness betrays him (double 1 rolled). He manages to stay upright. His next attack is a fail but he provokes his opponent (1 forfeited die).

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/6wok.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/6wok.jpg)

Round 2
Funestus recovers his forfeited die then advances to do his signature move who strikes the scutum.
The challenger wants to prove his worth. He moves and does an impetus attack but well parried by the Thraex. His next strike is another fail. He then catches his breath.

Round 3
Crixus takes the initiative! He moves (with two discarded dice) and attacks without success. Time to respite.
Funestus rushes and hits the head of the Murmillo with his sica striking the helmet in a glancing blow. His signature move is really painful for Crixus. A second strike hits the helmet again for the same result…Fortunate Murmillo.

Round 4
A new Driven Hook around is well defended by Crixus. Then the Thraex moves backward to catch his breath.
Crixus breaks the distance with a move and a rush attack. He is almost surprised when his gladius hits Funestus to his rear leg, inflicting him a flesh wound as the crowd roars with pleasure. As he plays with the crowd, the crowd rewards him with another favour token. The the Murmillo succeeds to provoke the ferocious Thraex (1 forfeited die).

Round 5
Funestus keeps the initiative and recovers his forfeited die. Then his next attack hits the lead arm of the Murmillo in a glancing blow. Now is the time for another signature move, and a terrible one. The head of Crixus is hit again and the blow put an end to the fight (slow kill).

Crixus has to forfeits the match.

Appeal to the crowd = 11 (Mitte).
Injury tabe = unheald
Fame +4 (+1 missio, +1 two favour tokens, +1 if opponent’s tier is 2 or more higher than yours, +1 Saturnalia)
Crixus is now tier 1.

(https://zupimages.net/up/22/36/vm7k.jpg) (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/36/vm7k.jpg)

Victory for Funestus (Ludus of Julia)
Fame +4 (+3 winning the match, +1 two favour tokens, -1 if opponent’s tier is 2 or more lower than yours, +1 Saturnalia).
+1 crown

Funestus becomes the new Champion.


The results after one year of fightings :

Ludus of Franck     
Crixus (Murmillo – tier 1) : fame 9 (1 win / 1 missio)         
Belliger (Provocator – tier 0) : fame 4 (1 win)
Torentius (Retiarius – tier 0) : fame 2 (1 missio)
Atrox (Murmillo – tier 1) : put to death by the Editor
Ajax (Secutor – tier 1) : put to death by the crowd
Tetraites (Hoplomachus – tier 1) : KIA
Ermanamer (Thraex – tier 1) : KIA
Eithriall (Secutor – tier 0)
Felix (Hoplomachus – tier 0)
Thor (Thraex – tier 0)

Total fame : 15 :'(


Ludus of Julia
Funestus The Champion (Thraex – tier 2) : fame 21 (5 wins / 1 missio / 1 kill)
Tigris (Secutor – tier 1) : fame 13 (3 wins / 1 missio)
Vegetus (Murmillo – tier 1) : fame 13 (3 wins / 1 missio / 1kill)
Hyperion (Provocator – tier 1) : fame 9 (2 wins / 2 missio)
Asprinus (Retiarius – tier 0)  : fame 5 (1 win)
Iniuriosus (Hoplomachus – tier 0) : fame 1 (1 missio)

Total fame : 62 + 5 bonus Champion : 67  :o
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 05, 2022, 09:47:45 PM
Great reports as usual Franck and an exciting conclusion to the campaign.

I really thought for a moment that Crixus might pull off a surprise win. At least he survived the bout and continues to be the hope of Ludus Franck.

Julia really steamrolled you, but the fact that she had not lost a single gladiator and you lost four made the big difference.

Again thank you for the entertaining accounts. I'll PM you.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: WuZhuiQiu on September 05, 2022, 09:52:10 PM
These have been very interesting and suspenseful reads - where have the latest rule updates been published?
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 05, 2022, 10:16:40 PM
Last weekend my opponent and I managed to find the time to give v.1.4 a run on the Table of Honour. We managed two bouts before time was called. We played them as ‘standalone’ games but did roll for (different) Munus events and Match events just to get a bit more breadth of experience in our playtesting.

Almost missed your report there Muzfish crammed between Franck's epics!!

Excellent reports and observations. Your slight Aussie spin on proceedings had me chuckling. So glad you could give it another go.

I'm glad you like the feint attack. It works nicely in my opinion too and is very effective if performed at the right time. Drawing out a Parry token now for a later better Special Attack is text book Gladiator 101.

As it stands a gladiator with no available MANEUOVRE Dice may elect to spend any two ACTION Dice to make a single hex space move only. So unfortunately you should not have used them to avoid the Shield Barge. Have you any thoughts on the new Shield Barge table Muzfish?

Again thanks so much for putting BotS through her paces - it is appreciated.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 05, 2022, 10:19:38 PM
These have been very interesting and suspenseful reads - where have the latest rule updates been published?

I am still in the process of looking for a publisher WuZhuiQiu. But any support, comments, and interest, shown here on this thread could help that along.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: wkeyser on September 08, 2022, 08:47:29 AM
Why not self publish as pdf?  I for one would snap up a copy of these.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on September 08, 2022, 11:51:53 AM
Almost missed your report there Muzfish crammed between Franck's epics!!

Excellent reports and observations. Your slight Aussie spin on proceedings had me chuckling. So glad you could give it another go.

I'm glad you like the feint attack. It works nicely in my opinion too and is very effective if performed at the right time. Drawing out a Parry token now for a later better Special Attack is text book Gladiator 101.

As it stands a gladiator with no available MANEUOVRE Dice may elect to spend any two ACTION Dice to make a single hex space move only. So unfortunately you should not have used them to avoid the Shield Barge. Have you any thoughts on the new Shield Barge table Muzfish?

Again thanks so much for putting BotS through her paces - it is appreciated.

Thanks, Furt. Glad my thoughts were useful and thanks for the correction on the shield barge table. I think the table itself works well but really does favour, as you'd expect, the Strong and the Large - the meanies!  :)

I like the disincentive in that if it goes wrong a die is temporarily forfeited which makes is a  bit of a gamble and the -1 for a Scutum-equipped foe as it stops some match-ups becoming pushing matches. That said, a successful barge goes from bad to horrendous and can ruin one's day very quickly so it's a high risk high return sort of thing.

Just wondering about publishing - will it be for a book only or will there be bespoke action dice? I'd be in for a set or two if they were going.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 09, 2022, 05:03:15 AM
Why not self publish as pdf?  I for one would snap up a copy of these.

Thanks for the support wkeyser. Yes this time around self publishing is certainly a possibility but only after I've exhausted any professional publishing opportunities.

Just wondering about publishing - will it be for a book only or will there be bespoke action dice? I'd be in for a set or two if they were going.

That would firstly be dependent on if I find a publisher and if they deem it necessary. Although rolling standard d6 is perfectly serviceable, rolling dedicated action dice is much more thematic and intuitive.  I have a little experience dealing with manufactures in China so If I was to self publish I would certainly get custom dice made.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 17, 2022, 04:55:55 AM
I have finally finished my arena for Blood on the Sands and I'm happy to say that playing on it has been very easy and not at all restrictive. It has many 3d printed spectators from the excellent Iain Lovecraft Gladiator range along with some from March to Hell Rome series. Both are highly recommended and mix well enough together. The paint job on them will definitely not win any awards but the overall effect is what I had hoped for. It was quite a bit of work finishing the seventy odd figures, especially considering they are little more than a glorified backdrop to what ever is going on down on the arena floor.

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhztmoVnbSAY7KOdjbzFT35L7k9cBZ1hpAaghDk7AjnGQi58SYKq2fwq5ukIXTBTMt-8uyk4iT3euT7kRjgDzRToFBGxuhndyhF1SRk4aIPx0imGkgXerPBEbFHNwBM-8HKMkBqvBpw-x6nie09WLkm3LrnB0hUK_JZMlU1wEcy7d9oUlTgp2b80uflSg/s4032/IMG_3378.JPG)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxZsqYeObS1Ea6maYNeSJ7E4lJ_UWzrlHCYx6lrYjPJwz-5wV6nrjmc7U35KlrkLlkbXeOT4ffgsngi0l_ujfdNWFOIiRupEAr0SSZ0YeE7HL6IGTvKi2ZYhD-rEizuQmZylCD7z529SfAgri6DFf5H0cynoBNt5Dtkep7IEP4hDBaDJvPInfKa6wvTw/s4032/IMG_3380.JPG)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJ0pcUnkDl0LU5nAGHw61KpnnBhZ_MKmzgmTHX6lXXdY18WPRjWL8E_aD28RaglV7jxrvEH2RGzGX5udmokcvT-_dEJSnPCVpuwPuAYg02kRwzJFuhJU4IeA1m09DIcP-5NCRGhHfnDiaE6U2hyou3yoO0Nj7p8207m87vueP_BeUzmtVTF7hQN3WfCg/s4032/IMG_3377.JPG)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi7SyMYcKzwIysU6PePe4yi1erK2kON_j4Keq4C26lLQ30q6ND1aUJHZagWUFzQfng6i3it9l5_A2fkq5KT7pkzfw9DvaYMsU84GQ9g97LiJ58h9tg9J57516rx142hWa44Qpp72Ax3E5DCsexgVNs9Lowv4sckL9vUe206RxtLVH9Sw7UwcdrB2-Yngw/s4032/IMG_3382.JPG)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj1wAIdJ7TnmjwYJoDkd3u9GgTVoI-8xvMkR_xnL9QwmCDFagam5WFhqJfyhnwac76q7AG64vOY0A-XPzdxbIMpXss8ejLeREVU6A5IahVIbw9sJfwK2GW6bF1eIvsVbszW1OdFB88oLHR8wuSx8Tp-FTJDBE2lJtJef-7ZL0cRAwKboo7FuaxbItCraA/s4032/IMG_3371.JPG)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggnQGgj5IqT_6ZgwEZIMsK1_4NtrG0lJfMs6URIG3c6vXlIx0oWIXUmvakJXMoJ99I0uhA3vwJvzs32djTnOhp5Y8i1pOkDRLlOQkFsaPDI1uoA0MyHVIFQXJL17ZNKwnMaaYESGAbHjcDQXAZcOSE0fGWQdZDWEIC7h4UIClLKaBAOPS6j0yGcqu8Og/s4032/IMG_3369.JPG)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: DalyDR on September 17, 2022, 12:38:17 PM
That arena is great, I love all the animated spectators.  Nice work!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Golgotha on September 17, 2022, 04:02:02 PM
Really lovely terrain piece and given what it is wargame table  lol
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 17, 2022, 04:27:32 PM
A fantastic backdrop for gaming!  :-*

Well done!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on September 18, 2022, 02:43:22 AM
Looks terrific, mate!

It must really enhance the playing experience.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 18, 2022, 08:41:09 AM
Thanks all.  :)

It must really enhance the playing experience.

Yeah it certainly enhances the experience and makes it much more of an event.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on September 18, 2022, 09:55:38 AM
 :-* Whoa, fantastic arena! Nice job.

As said before, I wish to write some thoughts about the last version of Bots and if you are not allergic to chance and love the oiled chests of gladiators then this game is for you.

I really love the new version of this game as the atmosphere of the Bots I knew is still there, because the game really tries to take into account the historical and cultural dimension of the gladiature. I like the changes that have been made to the rules. The disappearance of skills and the defense system with dice and parry tokens are good things but let's have a closer look.

The theme first of all, approached with a real historical approach far from the clichés conveyed by the cinema or other supports. I love ancient history, I love Roman history and I have a passion for gladiators as you may have seen in the ancient messages of this subject. And very clearly, Frank managed to integrate a multitude of details and historical information giving the game a real historicity without taking the risk of disgusting the neophytes.
This approach is felt both in the rules of the campaign, as well as in the technical approach of the fights.

Let us talk about the rules, which are pretty straightforward, well written and not confusing. I am not an anglophone by birth, but the rules leave little room for interpretation. With my daughter we didn't have any problems understanding and playing the game.

The gameplay is very fun and once the rules are assimilated, the game is very fluid and rather fast. The central interest of the system is in the action dice that solve the actions of the characters. This is always the time when my daughter is the most excited, more than when we are throwing dice to attack or defend. Therefore, the use of custom dice brings this phase of play more enjoyable.

The fights are tactical and violent and the fear of bleeding and hypoxia always present, because the fatigue system is well thought out (having forfeited dice is quickly disabling). Of course, there is still a lot of chance in attacking and defending dice, but the system of double 6 and double 1 brings its share of uncertainty. The system of parry tokens is excellent and often requires thinking about their use when the opponent’s attack is weak.

Special attacks are very interesting and add an extra dimension to the thinking leading to the tactics to adopt. We have greatly abused some absolutely necessary attacks in our opinion (Circling, Driven, Heavy), others are to be used at appropriate times (Disarm, Aimed, Relentless), finally we have not yet had time to test some of them (Feint or Throw sand).
Class attacks are also very interesting. Reflecting well the peculiarities of each armatura. Again, we have abused of some of them (ha! the famous Thraex's Hook Around or The Extended Lunge of gladiators using spear or trident).

The whole favour/disfavour, fervour/apathy system works very well. During our tests, no one received apathy token because our fighters have always taken risks by staying in contact or close to the opponent (perhaps too much sometimes). It is clear that combatants are always looking to make the show and to please the public, they know that their life can depend on it. The "play to the crowd" and "provoke" tables are part of the show.

The campaign system is well thought out. The gladiator set-up system is simple and efficient, and the moments when you have to roll the dice on the Munus and the fight event tables always give you a little chill. I really appreciate the addition of the Editor when the opinion of the crowd is divided. Even if that didn’t often save my fighters. I still understood Frank’s desire not to completely stick to the historical reality and to «kill» a little more gladiators than in reality... Players must be afraid for their protégé.

The artworks are great and the overall design of the different sheets really nice (my only regrets are the epic artworks of Dr Mathias on the previous version). 

To me, this game need a pro edition!
I would love to have a great illustrated and well written booklet, some nice cardboard sheets and custom dice...and in my wildest dream some beautiful historical 35mm miniatures. An perhaps more armaturae (as the Scissor, Dimachaerus ou Crupellarius, even if their existence is not very well attested).
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 20, 2022, 12:03:39 AM
Thanks very much for the review of where Blood on the Sands stands in your opinion at this point Franck.

Your efforts play testing and documenting it here on this post is most appreciated. It is such a big thrill for me to see people playing and enjoying BotS again!

The artworks are great and the overall design of the different sheets really nice (my only regrets are the epic artworks of Dr Mathias on the previous version). 

Of course the artwork used in the play test document is used without the author's permission - just an example of what would be required and style I find appealing.

When I was redesigning BotS one of my biggest concerns was the fact that I'd be no doubt making Dr Mathias' amazing art obsolete. Although there have been changes the "gladiator dolls" are relatively the same so there is a possibility that Dr Mathias' designs could well still be relevant. 

An perhaps more armaturae (as the Scissor, Dimachaerus ou Crupellarius, even if their existence is not very well attested).

I have early drafts for Dimachaerus, Crupellarius, Scissor (Arbelas) and Veles classes, but they would unlikely be part of the main game. As you say they would of course be more embellished than the more well documented types. The trick is making them interact seamlessly with the existing gladiators.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Eithriall on September 20, 2022, 06:24:23 AM
It is such a big thrill for me to see people playing and enjoying BotS again!
No doubt! This game is enjoyable and needs a nice outfit to be perfect.

Of course the artwork used in the play test document is used without the author's permission - just an example of what would be required and style I find appealing.
Ok, I get it. Are you in search of an illustrator ?

I have early drafts for Dimachaerus, Crupellarius, Scissor (Arbelas) and Veles classes, but they would unlikely be part of the main game. As you say they would of course be more embellished than the more well documented types. The trick is making them interact seamlessly with the existing gladiators.
Ok that's fine. I was talking about this add to get some more fun and vary the gameplay even.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 20, 2022, 08:51:44 AM
Ok, I get it. Are you in search of an illustrator ?

Depending on where I try to take this, possibly yes.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Muzfish4 on September 24, 2022, 04:06:23 AM
Played a (very) quick bout the other night.

Just for a changes – and to give the Shadowforge figures an outing - it was ladies night at the Ludus for the classic match-up of Murmilla vs Thracia.

Scorpia donned her fish-crested helmet and squared up against Furia.  Their respective western (Gaulish for Furia) and eastern (Egypt for Scorpia) origins didn't matter as both fighters were gaolbirds in the arena for former misdeeds. Scorpia was a hard hitter being both Strong and Brutal but the crowd adored her for it. By way of contrast, Furia was large but her size belied her lithe moves (and cancelled out her Defence -1 from Large) as she was also Agile.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZOpZlXb.jpg)
Above: Contestants face off - Furia does not like the look of Scorpia

Things went wrong for Furia straight away as Scorpia had moved with confidence as she strode onto the sands and this intimidated her. Not to be put off, she gained the jump on Scorpia but resolved to play the long game and incurred some boos from the crowd while she gathered her thoughts and recovered her temporarily forfeited die and elected to stay put and incur a disfavour token.

Scorpia seemed to be playing a very different game as she advanced and led off with a feint, drawing out a defence die and followed up with a flourish, quite literally. It looked a little awkward (hit roll of 6) so Furia didn't use her Parmula and swayed out of the way, but misjudged and ended up wearing a stab to the head. The helmet helped, but couldn't stop the blow drawing blood. The crowd liked this and Scorpia then played on it to ham it up and acquire a fervour token while the Thracia withdrew shaking her head furiously to get the blood out of her eyes.

(https://i.imgur.com/hXwnHYu.jpg)
Above: Scorpia's playsheet - plenty of tokens in play but all works well

Scorpia was still playing the arena crowd for laughs and in so doing again lost the initiative. Furia decided it was time for a bit of an offensive and threw a series of attacks at the Murmilla. Standard attacks, a circling attack and the Thracian specialty of hooking around  were all successfully fended off by the big Scutum. Scorpia was sizing up her opponent as she weathered the storm and noticed a deficiency in technique in the way Furia overextended her Sica when striking and responded with an aimed strike that hit and hit well with the Parmula a vital second too slow in defence (attack roll of 10 versus modified defence of 7) the aimed attack had some options where it wanted to land and the lead arm looked the best bet. The straight blade of the Gladius cut through armour, flesh and bone like butter (damage roll of 10 +2 for differential of 3, + for Large and +1 for Brutal) and was a straight-outmkill. Furia lost her arm and her life as the savage blow had her pumping out her lifeblood onto the sands while Scorpia exalted in the adulation of the crowd.

(https://i.imgur.com/mpeLzeU.jpg)
Above: the fatal blow is about to land

Match to Scorpia in less than two rounds. She walks out of the arena with 5 experience, so remains a Tiro but the fans seemed to like what they have seen so far and she may have a real future in the Ludus Marius.

Thoughts

•   The game went well and played pretty instinctively. This opponent had played earlier editions before but like the changes to the v1.4.

•   My opponent was playing for the mid-game and prioritised getting a full dice pool and retaining his stable of parry tokens over putting in an attack in turn one. The disfavour token didn’t end up mattering but putting in a couple of unanswered attacks early on really helped me.

•   Feint remains a very effective attack in drawing out a defence die/parry token and informed my opponent’s decision not to parry what ended up being a nasty head wound – and allowed me to gain a fervour token from the Flourish attack.

•   The rules allow for matches to be concluded pretty quickly, so not all games are predictable by length. This gives good variety in that things can go wrong pretty quickly, so every decision is important. No point playing for the mid-game and ignoring the here-and-now of the early game.

•   The playsheet works well but my arts-and-crafts are a bit crap in that the circular tokens are by no means neat.

•   The playsheet is great and saved leafing through the rules – especially for newer players.

•   Question: Most special attacks are described as making a ‘Standard attack’ – can this special attack be supplement with another attack Action die (i.e. a ‘4’) before the roll to add +1 to the attack roll or is this option only for ‘standard attacks’ made using an Action Die of ‘4’?

Another good game generated by BoTS and the speed in which a result was reached suggests that the game is by no means formulaic and poor decisions/poor luck  early on can make recovery  very difficult.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on September 29, 2022, 11:56:05 AM
Just got back from Chicago Muzfish4 and read your report. I've had a few bouts go this way for sure and end even quicker than yours did.

I have those Shadowforge minis too.

Question: Most special attacks are described as making a ‘Standard attack’ – can this special attack be supplement with another attack Action die (i.e. a ‘4’) before the roll to add +1 to the attack roll or is this option only for ‘standard attacks’ made using an Action Die of ‘4’?

Yes, you can boost any attack roll by spending a "4" for a +1.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Tas on October 02, 2023, 10:49:39 AM
Fantastic to play Blood on the Sands at the MOAB Games Convention in Sydney today, hosted by Lanista Frank himself!

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiqzzshcVYkIurEiM0hI9BeQhHcwRoKPf7Xy_f9rppEztjMkqr1R4Mj266c2mzAcwHfs5Z3I4spgBkziBLN4owJwb9t2fyfBAnzhVMeTQf3BjuGsjlw9jTVW-NVDTYLR1YSkl9eS1rS36xuCSMdqGe4bzvB8jCNJkXJp1y2xCTHlN_QmIdRL0wfJKtufD8B/w400-h386/385465681_878144240319166_3940780459829232966_n.jpg)

I did a small blog post with my thoughts and more epics here, but the BLUF is: Awesome! I had a whale of a time and cant wait to play again.  Thanks mate!

http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2023/10/blood-on-sands-at-moab.html (http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2023/10/blood-on-sands-at-moab.html)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgh7aQeA_URFDna5n1w4a7bW82L55al9bFHn1VFTp_vyedpVO0MXGJSlh2ytcYsRj_YPw5tYcYXer5y0ZK1k6cXZEBAlrb67b1B9HNbv0IGAe3t57LotUgaKOt3pGKYzSPbSZ_kcth8Z5IoQkY6KPGYlhTqn4obeRl3XifsZBltMb07cqLgGMnypJv5IVMv/s4032/385437340_984475609485422_2523942218704245486_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Pattus Magnus on October 02, 2023, 12:51:32 PM
Whoa! That’s amazing! Probably the best looking gladiatorial arena I have seen. Looks very playable, too.
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on October 02, 2023, 09:50:11 PM
Fantastic to play Blood on the Sands at the MOAB Games Convention in Sydney today, hosted by Lanista Frank himself!

I did a small blog post with my thoughts and more epics here, but the BLUF is: Awesome! I had a whale of a time and cant wait to play again.  Thanks mate!

http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2023/10/blood-on-sands-at-moab.html (http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/2023/10/blood-on-sands-at-moab.html)

Had a blast Paul and always so great to see you in town mate. Thanks for playing and being such a great sport. Only you could be brutally stabbed, smashed into a wall, disarmed, knocked prone and ceremoniously put to the sword, all with an ear to ear grin on your face.

The day at MOAB went really well and the table was full with 6 players for most of the time. I thankfully had Victor, long time play tester and a major sounding board for the rules, who helped by teaching and coaching the new players. The greatest thing was after the first turn or two the pairs of players were running through the rules themselves needing only the occasional query answered.

I've finally taken the plunge and made a Facebook page to start gathering all things BotS together https://www.facebook.com/bloodonthesands (https://www.facebook.com/bloodonthesands) and would love the support of any willing LAFers.

(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/384483433_198366026606231_4603897361457987440_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=N2JcCD7mdeoAX-HUW2f&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=00_AfAH-C441KZN27-ovzqv0jk2WIsbqGQTpPJ_g9zCmQkRsQ&oe=65205A31)

(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/386387120_198365939939573_2187129287377711992_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=1-GsczqIhzoAX_VBmY1&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=00_AfBkza9PRUfqBUL3t7wcS9UyZfvpZUhju_ucM2HEopuUvQ&oe=652084FE)

(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/385312570_198366153272885_1822561729016915615_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=fcmG66uRFUMAX8398tD&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=00_AfB-B3SwlIEOs6ut2iUU2e-2GDSgq4I_vrUkia8WLp9zNQ&oe=651F8860)

(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/385511238_198365979939569_7079824802629806666_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=T_U-FvElCB0AX-eAcXC&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=00_AfBfYUxD-K9E8-IZDLELrgzUzgKWh76bLwhib7fDoE3jFw&oe=652070BF)

(https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/385303430_198366209939546_6743897293278524280_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=JOERxbkvglcAX8SsQ2V&_nc_ht=scontent.fsyd7-1.fna&oh=00_AfDxcoTs-MoKPoOHYzCD0vhkw4bzkT6qcdCznMIFjHUkRg&oe=6520F3DA)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Rabbitz on October 03, 2023, 12:54:06 AM
It looks so beautiful.   
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Tas on October 03, 2023, 10:40:03 AM
Only you could be brutally stabbed, smashed into a wall, disarmed, knocked prone and ceremoniously put to the sword, all with an ear to ear grin on your face.

Sounds like my last annual performance appraisal...  :D
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: damianlz on October 03, 2023, 10:53:10 AM
Thats me on the close left furiously trying to capitalise on the momentum of my retiarius. By the sheer luck of the gods I did not win :P

It felt amazing to play again. I've known the game and Furt since 2013 and my god I'm excited to see him move this closer to being seen! I painted these during lockdown and I'm hoping to have more games soon.

One of the best wargames I've ever played. Next project will be a colosseum!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Furt on October 03, 2023, 11:22:20 AM
Sounds like my last annual performance appraisal...  :D

At least you get an appraisal mate.

Thats me on the close left furiously trying to capitalise on the momentum of my retiarius. By the sheer luck of the gods I did not win :P

It felt amazing to play again. I've known the game and Furt since 2013 and my god I'm excited to see him move this closer to being seen! I painted these during lockdown and I'm hoping to have more games soon.

One of the best wargames I've ever played. Next project will be a colosseum!

Damian is an old pro at this and even brought his own contubernium of real life Legionary reenactors to play. Can't ask for better playtesters than that right? So grateful for you coming along mate and being such a stalwart supporter for so many years. I really appreciate all the help you have given me.

And those glads are looking the bomb!
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 04, 2023, 12:07:23 PM
Superb result mate. Glad it went well  8)
Title: Re: Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
Post by: Tas on October 27, 2023, 09:33:28 AM
Enjoyed a brilliant evening with 'Blood on the Sands' rules author Frank running 4 new players through the game. My first bout was an epic matchup between my Thraex, Hector, and Drusa the Hoplomachus.

Drusa was a machine, keeping the lighter armoured fighter at bay with his long spear. Hector tried to rush in but tripped - stayed on his feet but lost momentum and was deeply wounded in the lead arm for his troubles. Naturally, the crowd loved it!

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmakNhE6SdeJjdUeeS8hNRAdlIr-0vtyRmSVNl6OnsalKO58N0K1R1wkD5LUHAP5eE0y4YeeJDPadVLFORelF-Janfy2e51w5LJRuPCdmWoOOoohopdL5S7f1hKVHkAA8LT9ovklIK6risI_fCLt_zZe__4HC5z1bvfq4PBzyPF9FIh62CgbeFPkLwFfAN/s2520/370252931_912437657135379_2921858013375308487_n.jpg)

Bleeding badly, Hector circled the Hoplomachus looking for a way in, but Drusus’s spear struck like an adder - another deep wound to lead arm! With 2 bleeding wounds on the same arm, and fatigue building, Hector was in real trouble. And when his leg was wounded also, he options were getting limited (ie lost an action dice).

Calling upon Fortuna and his Brittanic ancestors to aid him, Hector mustered his fading strength to dance in and deliver a series of lighting fast attacks with his curved blade, finally drawing blood with a deep wound and tripping the Hoplomachus. Drusus tried but couldn’t get to his feet and fought desperately from the ground with his spear.

Using the last of his reserves, Hector went all in for one final attack on the prone Drusus. His weapon slipped past Drusus defences! With the sica's blade resting on his throat, the Hoplomachus appealed for mercy. Being most entertained after this epic combat, the crowd were pleased to give it! Spent, the victorious Hector was barely able to acknowledge the adoration of the crowd.

What a match! With a couple of bad rolls, the game went south for me from the start but I felt I always had options, though they did diminish as my gladiator degraded. The impact of fatigue was a key factor and a real push your luck mechanism. The impact of my double wounded arm was also interesting as I tried to protect it while my opponent tried to target it to knock me out of the fight.

And it was a VERY close fight and there wasn’t much left in the tank by the end - and if my last all-in attack hadn’t worked, I would have capitulated in the fatigue phase that followed. A thrilling match that demonstrated what a great game system this is. 

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgj9eodFp8ERI2YXeixBlvJBi_onM1pKVGKZSse6d83TCVqeQ3jAiJ2waSzIhAzrnjTVgWartr-8sz6VuHOlEiL2XEqBK9FM495C2ZMpOlu8fyJfHqSg435o_p4JEqDKsUseqrQ8GSRsHfBEa1sks4z4HQ12t9K1gwNZEU54JnI7p-E-Ju4395XjfauymeX/s2048/395716115_3554010124846977_7725641115295638886_n.jpg)

Thanks again Frank - a great night and a great game!
Also a great baptism for my newly painted Thraex, playing in your fabulous Arena :)