Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Finarfin on March 21, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
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I got a couple of Ebob's great new Normans some weeks ago and couldn't wait transforming them into Men of Gondor. I was never too confident with PJs plate-armoured Gondorians since plate is never mentioned in the books. Furthermore, the image I always had in mind was highly influenced by John Howe's Watchful Peace (http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=503)
The whole article, more pics and a higher resolution can be found at Jomada - Adventures in Middle-earth (http://jomada-adventures.blogspot.de/2013/03/watchful-peace.html):
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/130321/sl9ks6nd.jpg)
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/130321/er6ppd2a.jpg)
(http://s7.directupload.net/images/130321/rj8usgfc.jpg)
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/130321/jhvd23lt.jpg)
Hope you like them.
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They look bloody good! Great models to start with (that I didn't realise were available yet!) plus some damn good paint work too. :-*
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:o :-* wow these are fantastic. I was looking at getting some a few weeks ago. Great use for these. I may have to borrow the idea for my men of Gondor as I agree with you about the plate mail.
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Wow! Those are fantastic!!
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They look down right sexy! :-*
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Very well done. :-*
They look very gritty and I love the winged helms here and there.
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Amazing! I love those eBob Normans. How do they scale up with everything else?
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Good stuff, just how the men of Gondor ought to look!
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Did you do those cloaks yourself?
Elegant work.
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Those are fantastic!
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Thanks guys, appreciate it a lot!
I may have to borrow the idea for my men of Gondor as I agree with you about the plate mail.
Please do so! Bring back the pre-PJ-Middle-earth!
Did you do those cloaks yourself?
Elegant work.
Thanks! Here's a pic of the rough sculpting, before cleaning and details:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M5RrU3IfQmo/UTO2HdJ9KRI/AAAAAAAAAkI/3EdDCAqgxls/s1600/normans.jpg)
Amazing! I love those eBob Normans. How do they scale up with everything else?
They scale perfectly with the rest of the LotR range. Slightly taller than the old plastic miniatures, but still not as big as the massive late metal miniatures.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-40uGYgAlfHU/UTO08jTBEhI/AAAAAAAAAkA/vQJWLhoII_o/s1600/normans.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bDW6BfsGjfo/UUsJ0iDewgI/AAAAAAAAArA/IPsB9FL8aPI/s1600/gondor10.jpg)
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They work really well. I might have to get some of them to use for a middle earth project I had in mind. Thanks for the tip and comparison photos.
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The Ebob Rebellion range also works nicely alongside pre-scale-creep GW LotR (and RBG, for that matter!). I've actually just varnished eight of the Scottish pike-men today for my own fantasy project and will get a picture up in due course.
As to your Norman conversions, I think they look fantastic and I agree that they are far more believable than the plate-clad Gondorians of the film.
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Tolkien himself stated multiple times that he generally thought of "Dark Age" (400-700) arms and armour as being roughly correct for Middle Earth at the time of LotR. I think there were a few rare instances of plate, but these were extremely uncommon.
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very nice figures!
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They work very well 8)
cheers
James
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As I said on your blog these are fantastic! The best Gondorian I have seen and some of the best alternative models too.
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Lovely work :-* Just how they ought to look!
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These are some fab proxy figures and I love the understated conversions. A salute to David Day's Tolkein Bestiary that shows the Gondorians in Saxo-Norman finery...
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very nice! I also think mail not plate is best for any and all in Middle earth. I'm thinking those figs with 'pointy' helms could work for Elves.
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A salute to David Day's Tolkein Bestiary that shows the Gondorians in Saxo-Norman finery...
Those are the images that immediately sprang to mind when I saw these, and how I saw them when I read the books. The film image of Gondorian troops has been in my mind for the last 10 years now and I'd almost forgotten that they weren't how I imagined them when I read Lord of the Rings!
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Gutbukkit,
Those PJ Gondorians really wound me up! Plate armoured cavalry with no shield, and no horse armour to speak of. Then to add insult to injury they had foot archers in plate armour and almost full-faced helmets trying to use longbows. No wonder the Siege of Gondor went pear-shaped!
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It's not real- only a story.
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It's not real- only a story.
How can you say that...!!! :'(
Those models are really beautiful and fit perfectly with how I have pictured Gondorian troops. So muchbetter than the PJ style. However, being a lazy ass and having no experience with green stuff to speak of I can honestly say I will probably never ever do anything like that. Shame on me, I know. But I hate modeling...
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It's not real- only a story.
No reason to have no reason!
Oh, and, nice work on nice models. Painting is great, but I'm also impressed by all the sculpty bits.
Now if Bob ever got round to releasing norman cavalry...
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Amen to that Vermis!
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Good stuff, just how the men of Gondor ought to look!
My thoughts exactly. They look really really good.
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Very nice models and great paintjob :-*
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I found this image on the web of The Men of Gondor form David Day's Tolkien Bestiary for the benefit of anyone who hasn't seen these fabulous pictures before. Your Normans are a great look a like, with all your sculpty-bits.
PS I do own the Bestiary, but I wasn't about to break the spine of it trying to force it into my scanner.
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8779/tolkienbestiary4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/tolkienbestiary4.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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Wow, didn't know this book but a quick google research later I'm convinced that I have missed something...
Thanks for sharing!
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I got mine when I was about thirteen or fourteen. I am 40 this year.
They had a copy in the school library and I used to pour over it, amazed by the fantastic illustrations- some of the finest fantasy art I can ever remember seeing. I was so enthralled by the book, I asked for it for Christmas. I got it as my main Christmas present because it was so expensive (it cost £25, back when that was a LOT of money to spend on a book). My Mum and Dad thought it was a bit of a waste of money to spend that much on a book, but I still have it, and it is very much treasured, unlike all those other childhood Christmas presents I had over the years. I still read it and refer to it, especially when planning campaigns to LotR. The art still enthrals me.
I believe it was also republished when the films came out, under the title Tolkien: An Illustrated Encyclopaedia. It's pretty much the same book, but to be fair the new title is a better description of the contents of the book. You will probably be able to pick this up a bit cheaper than the Bestiary, because it was printed more recently and it much larger print runs.
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The Works in the UK sell the bestiary and the illustrated encyclopaedia for £5 each. Available on their online store too.
http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/fantasy/tolkien-the-illustrated-encyclopedia/9780753724224 (http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/fantasy/tolkien-the-illustrated-encyclopedia/9780753724224)
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Wow! £5! Some of the prices I saw 2nd hand on Amazon were silly £30-50 price range!
It's weird to think that it cost my parents £25 back in 1980s. I guess that's the influence of the films.
Good spot though.
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On a similar note, Ted Nasmith's maybe not my favourite Middle-Earth artist*, but his landscapes are eye-strokingly brilliant, and his illustrations for the Silmarillion put me onto mail-clad, dark-agey elves (let alone Gondorians) in one fell swoop. Dunno what my image of them was before that. Plate, I think, and something more like GW's or PJ's imagery. Yes, despite one of Bilbo's last gifts to Frodo.
Big pics: 1 (http://25.media.tumblr.com/c13a12bc169488264be02229f08ea35c/tumblr_mgzes2KMjO1rtwlb5o1_1280.jpg) 2 (http://www.tolkiendil.com/_media/telechargements/fonds/nasmith_ted/nasm24_1024_768.jpg) 3 (http://tednasmith.mymiddleearth.com/files/2012/07/TN-The_Orc-Host_is_Ambushed_in_Brethil.jpg) (You get where GW got the idea for White Lions from, in that last one)
Also: had no idea he did ASoIaF illos (http://radiant-city.tumblr.com/image/24361582506) too. :-*
And I'm going to have to search a couple of branches of The Works for that bestiary/encyclopedia. I've noticed it before... hope it hasn't been sold out.
(it cost £25, back when that was a LOT of money to spend on a book)
What do you mean, 'back when'? ;D ;)
*That's probably John Howe, and The Works still has some copies of his excellent first art book (http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/artists/myth-magic:-the-art-of-john-howe/9780007107957) too. (Although The Works' decision about who the author is raises my hackles some.)
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@Gutbukkit: 5£ is an unbeatable bargain... German prices are up to 100€! :o
@Vermis: Ted Nasmith has never been my favourite, too but in retrospective I can't tell why. Especially the lnked painting of the Sindar Elves in Brethil is one of the greatest pieces of Tolkien art ever. They would even work together with the PJ High Elves. Started sculpting one of those once, but never finished it...
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Bought that illustrated book some years ago on a book fair called "boekenfestijn" it only was around €6 if I'm not mistaken can be even less than that. I love the old school artwork and backgrounds for every race you can imagine.
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I really like these illustrations and have bought the Encyclopedia. I have bookmarked the Bestiary to buy later but you say it's pretty much the same book? I think it's a shame that the films didn't follow the look of all these old pictures and went for the more "high fantasy" look. Given that GW have ruined their range with inconsistent scales and Finecast, I'd say it'd be a great thing to use these illustrations as inspiration and look about for useful minis. These Norman Gondorians are superb! I'd copy you if I thought I could sculpt a cloak nearly as well. lol
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Glad to see the Tolkein Bestiary is still popular and inspiring others after all these year. I'm 48 this year and also got my copy in my mid teens. It has been a consistent source of inspiration ever since, and introduced me to some of the great names in fantasy art and illustration... You can see its influence most notably with my Mumakil.
Gibby - give the cloaks a go. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how straightforward they can be with a little perseverence...
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I would welcome tips on how to make capes. Mine looked terrible...like he was carrying a giant blob of chewing gum around on his back.
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The way I do it is to start with a blob of greenstuff on the middle of the back and work it upwards to the shoulders, and downwards to the hem. I add a small sausage with tapered ends and fix the ends to where you'd want the cape/cloak fastened at the front then fix it onto the shoulders then around the back. Then I use a sculpting tool to add folds and create a hood/gathers of cloak behind the head. I find that by gradually stretching the greenstuff downwards in the folds I can recreate the flowing look of the material. I finish up by pressing upwards at the bottom edge sticking it to the body. This creates the billowing effect of the cloak flapping away from the body at the ends...
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My first introduction to the Bestiary (the original, '79 edition) was with my uncles copy in the mid-eighties. He'd left home and it remained at my grandparents (an enormous house in Woking, Surrey), so whenever we went to stay I would spend hours leafing through it absorbing the illustrations. As I was quite young the picture of Gollum (p139, under 'Hobbits') gave me a few sleepless nights! Of course the colour illustrations and, in particular, the battle-scenes were what caught my eye, although I found - and continue to find - the whole work fascinating. It was my first introduction to fantasy and as such has shaped many of my ideas regarding the genre.
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sukhe_bator is pretty close to what I do!
In addition I use more of those sausages (tapered at the upper end) to define the basic shape of the drapery.
Working the GS downwards is perphaps the most important part. You don't want the cloaks to be too thick around the shoulders, you don't want it to just retrace the shape of the body, but you want it to have a vivid look. I use clay shapers for that pupose.
The bottom edge is a bit tricky, as well. If I have the feeling that the edge is a bit blurry and not fitting for a rectangular cloak, I let the GS set and use my hobby knife to clean the edges... You can always do some minor corrections later and even add new GS if you need to. It's much easier once the main structure is hard and won't cave in to the pressure of your sculpting tool.
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
WOW!!!!! Excellent battle hardened looking veterans. They look absolutely stunning. Your painting is second to none. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
Hitman
8)
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Those are just excellent! I love the freehand on the shields. Well done.
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I've had the bestiary for years as well. One of my favorite books.
I love your Gondor Men conversions. Great putty work on the winged helms and more in line with Tolkien I think.
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@Gutbukkit: 5£ is an unbeatable bargain... German prices are up to 100€! :o
You can get a second hand copy for 66p on Abe, although postage adds a couple of pounds, but still well under the £5 mark.
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&sts=t&tn=tolkien+bestiary
I thoroughly recomend Abe for obscure books. Best if you search by title and author rather than keywords, but if you are not sure put a vague guess at the title and see what you find. Alasdair uses it a lot for text books.
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:o :o :o
Wow!
Late to the party on these, but oh, so glad to catch them.
These fellas look spot on with my original visions of the Soldiers of Gondor.
I detest the PJ versions of them as well as a few ( ::)) other things.
These are fantastic: Great choice of original figure, excellent conversions and lovely paintwork.
:-* :-* :-*
P.S. Thanks to Rob Bresnan, I have just ordered that Bestiary.
Looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on it!
:D
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Mason - I'm completely with you. They are exactly how I'd imagined Gondorians to be. Had I not decided a long time ago against kite shields for Gondorians (largely due to the dearth of good figures available at the time, my Gondorians would look like these now - curses!) And Mason - you will not be disappointed with the Bestiary...
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Yeah, I've just found this thread - fantastic minis!
I'm now wondering if I can retro-fit all my Conquest Norman Gondorians with winged helmets. IIRC, Hasslefree sell mini-wings for just such a purpose...
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Firstly, sorry to Finarfin for continuing this slight diversion. ;)
I was in a branch of The Works today - turns out they had both the bestiary and the encyclopedia. £6.99 softback and £4.99 hardback, respectively. I flicked through the bestiary first and was pleasantly surprised to see it chock-full of illustrations by Ian Miller, among other artists. (Including Victor Ambrus and even a few by John Blanche) From my POV, a real retro-warhammer feel to Middle-Earth. :)
Then the encyclopedia. As mentioned it's pretty much the bestiary rearranged a bit, but with a lot of the illustrations replaced by offerings in two other styles. How can I put it? One was like an amalgam of a child's crayon doodles and mid-20th-C soviet bloc animations. The other was like a young boy heard from a friend that they draw Spider-Man with ink and a brush, and thought that's all you need to make your drawings great. Neither were pretty. So I thought it was worth paying the extra couple of pounds for the bestiary, and brought it up to the till...
... where it rang through as £4.99 anyway. :D
On-topic! Kind of:
I detest the PJ versions of them as well as a few ( Roll Eyes) other things.
I'm tempted to start a topic. :)
I'm now wondering if I can retro-fit all my Conquest Norman Gondorians with winged helmets. IIRC, Hasslefree sell mini-wings for just such a purpose...
Good point! I'd forgotten about those. I'd be interested to see how they look, if you go ahead.
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I'm with Vermis - I would be interested to see the results of Momotaro's conversion ideas
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Really smart work on the unit. Good tips for sculpting as well.
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Outstanding. They works far better for me than the GW ones
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I'm with Vermis - I would be interested to see the results of Momotaro's conversion ideas
Oh. Now I actually have to do it, don't I? :D
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Oh. Now I actually have to do it, don't I? :D
We have to insist... ;)
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And Mason - you will not be disappointed with the Bestiary...
I certainly wasnt!
Great book, very inspirational.
So thanks again to Rob for first mentioning it.
:)
AND an even bigger 'Thank You' to Finarfin, as I have decided to take the leap and am waiting for some similar figures so that I can try the same thing.
This is exactly what Men of Gondor should look like!
If mine come out half as well as yours I will be pleased!
:D
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Hi guys,
My two sons and I have only just finished watching the New "The Hobbit" movie recently and they are keen as mustard to game all things LOTR :D
Your blog and brushwork is inspiring!
Please keep posting as the inspiration is great :-*
Consider me subscribed ;)
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I agree with everyone, the normans are great and an improvement over the movie designs.
I got mine when I was about thirteen or fourteen. I am 40 this year.
They had a copy in the school library and I used to pour over it, amazed by the fantastic illustrations- some of the finest fantasy art I can ever remember seeing. I was so enthralled by the book, I asked for it for Christmas. I got it as my main Christmas present because it was so expensive (it cost £25, back when that was a LOT of money to spend on a book). My Mum and Dad thought it was a bit of a waste of money to spend that much on a book, but I still have it, and it is very much treasured, unlike all those other childhood Christmas presents I had over the years. I still read it and refer to it, especially when planning campaigns to LotR. The art still enthrals me.
I believe it was also republished when the films came out, under the title Tolkien: An Illustrated Encyclopaedia. It's pretty much the same book, but to be fair the new title is a better description of the contents of the book. You will probably be able to pick this up a bit cheaper than the Bestiary, because it was printed more recently and it much larger print runs.
Very similar experience here. I would get it from the library and renew until I maxed out renews, then come back a month or four later and get it again. I spent many hours with it and drew a number of pictures aping millers style with technical pens my architect father handed down to me.
Later it came back in print and I only found out about it when it was on the remainder table at Borders for literally $2.50. Actually, I got two versions that way. The first was the text in a small and particularly cheap-feeling hardback called Tolkien A-Z and the printing wasn't very tight and the illustrations looked messy and blotchy. Later came the real deal, softback and with a crap cover but very nice inside. Both from the remainder table. I bought up several copies of each and passed them out to any of my friends I thought might be interested. This was a good few years ahead of the movies and the list was very small.