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Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 07:56:05 AM

Title: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 07:56:05 AM
(http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/WGN-FRA-02-VIstula-Legion-a-600x400.jpg)

(http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Albion2-cover-600x849.jpg)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 29, 2013, 08:07:18 AM
They've changed the front cover  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 08:17:53 AM
Well, the rifleman is the sweetener figure.......
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 29, 2013, 08:43:40 AM
I thought the figure was the ensign  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 08:45:10 AM
No, that was Vol 1 on the Peninsular War.......  This is Vol 2: Waterloo.......  :o
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Captain Blood on March 29, 2013, 08:49:11 AM
Always room for a few more add-ons...  ::)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 29, 2013, 08:56:12 AM
No, that was Vol 1 on the Peninsular War.......  This is Vol 2: Waterloo.......  :o

Ah...

That was quick

cheers

James
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 08:58:14 AM
Well, Warlord seem to have attracted a decent team of designers who seem to churn stuff out......  :o
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: flags_of_war on March 29, 2013, 09:21:17 AM
Another strange one on the plastics front. I always seen plastics as the way to get large armies quick. How many boxes of Polish would you actually need before you go oh i have enough.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 09:24:20 AM
Well, The Vistula Legion was three regiments of Infantry and one of Lancers, so two boxes and a command pack will do......  o_o
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: valleyboy on March 29, 2013, 09:33:57 AM
Presumably these are not necessarily restricted in their use to the Vistula legion
I assume that wearing the Czapka they will be fine for Duchy of Warsaw line????
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Not sure whether there are separate heads, but it seems that the Flank Co's have czapskas and the Line have Shakoes......

(http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/WGN-FRA-02-VIstula-Legion-b-600x415.jpg)

(http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/WGN-FRA-02-VIstula-Legion-c-600x581.jpg)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: flags_of_war on March 29, 2013, 09:46:17 AM
I really like the Sapper :)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: General Lee on March 29, 2013, 12:22:03 PM
will be getting the book!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: 14th brooklyn on March 29, 2013, 01:48:02 PM
Hmm,

If I am not mistaken all companies should have czapskas, right?

And is it just me or are these "just" their plastic French with new heads?

Cheers,

Burkhard

P.S.: Am I the only one who finds it funny that the cover of the Waterloo book only features Perry minis and no Warlord ones!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: former user on March 29, 2013, 01:53:36 PM

it says on the box (plastic and metal)
these are basically french with metal heads, so this wasn't much of a tooling effort.....
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 02:04:19 PM
I assume the troops are plastic and command is metal, that is the usual Warlord way.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: the commissar on March 29, 2013, 03:00:05 PM
I must admit that I thought that the Polish troops were wearing the Kurta (sp?) jacket which had the lapels closed all the way down - certainly by the time they went to the Peninsular.

Seems like a poor choice for a conversion from their French infantry - if that is what it is
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Calimero on March 29, 2013, 03:13:04 PM
Hmm,
If I am not mistaken all companies should have czapskas, right?
And is it just me or are these "just" their plastic French with new heads?

I must admit that I thought that the Polish troops were wearing the Kurta (sp?) jacket which had the lapels closed all the way down - certainly by the time they went to the Peninsular.

Seems like a poor choice for a conversion from their French infantry - if that is what it is

I might be wrong, because I’m far from being a Napoleonic Uniforms expert, but I find these "Polish" figures very odd… I too would expect all the troop to wear czapskas and the close coat (like the Bavarian one). Also, the box art seem odd as well with troopers in long tailed coat and the drummer in the 1812 Bardin regulation Livrée Impériale…

I liked their French Infantry but really dislike the fact that single sprues are so expensive (considering they are unboxed, plastic figures…)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: King Tiger on March 29, 2013, 04:32:51 PM
HURRAY! finally Waterloo, at last I can have rules that are biased towards the useless British and that knock everyone else who actually fought in that campaign....

And HURRAY! plastic polish that are almost as expensive as the metals from front rank miniatures.....Jesus Christ warlord.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on March 29, 2013, 04:38:45 PM
Calimero, you ate right.  I did some checking, the drummer is 1812, but the rest wear much older uniforms......
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Aaron on March 30, 2013, 11:50:52 PM
 Actually the shakos are correct for the Vistula legion, but the coats and shaking plates are wrong.  http://empire.histofig.com/IMG/jpg/pologne02.jpg  (http://empire.histofig.com/IMG/jpg/pologne02.jpg)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Argonor on March 31, 2013, 11:07:14 AM
So, basically, this is an attempt on scoring some extra money on an existing set of sprues, ignoring all existing references to actual uniforms (and 'cleverly' disguising the fly-away lapels on the grenadier by painting the waistcoat in the  lapel-colour - a feature forgotten in the box art).

Certainly not cricket.  :-[
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on March 31, 2013, 11:40:12 AM
I was all enthused when I saw these. Cheap plastic Poles, decent sculpts - just when I'm on the lookout for a little variety to add to my French.

Then, hmmm, something's not right. Box art was a clue then, shakos, cuffs.....I'm no expert, but I'd like the figs to be accurate. I know the uniforms changed a bit and the unit wore many items of French kit but overall something is lacking.

http://empire.histofig.com/Vistula-Legion.html  (http://empire.histofig.com/Vistula-Legion.html)

C'mon Warlord....tell me I'm wrong!


.........
Ok....
So I may be wrong.....

 http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.skh.wat.edu.pl/index.php/mundury-legii-nadw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.skh.wat.edu.pl/index.php/mundury-legii-nadw/%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbIw%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1467%26bih%3D692&sa=X&ei=R9pWUYjqGvGTiAfahICYDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQ7gEwAA   (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://www.skh.wat.edu.pl/index.php/mundury-legii-nadw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.skh.wat.edu.pl/index.php/mundury-legii-nadw/%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbIw%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1467%26bih%3D692&sa=X&ei=R9pWUYjqGvGTiAfahICYDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQ7gEwAA)

See TMP http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=300798    (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=300798)for more background. I think that there is sufficient variance in the uniform worn and sufficient evidence  in the above for me to buy a box, along with a slice of humble pie!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: 14th brooklyn on March 31, 2013, 11:52:33 AM
This is what Paul from Warlord posted on TMP the other day when it came to historical accuracy:

Quote
Afternoon gents,

We researched these extensively, aided and abetted by Polish speakers and their Polish language reference books. We chose to go with the uniforms as depicted in Gembarzewski's mighty tome on the subject (don't ask me the title – it's in Polish!). It's worth noting that the sculptor is also Polish and relied on help from contacts back in his homeland in addition to Gembarzewski.

Rest assured, these miniatures are correct – as much as we can know of something that happened so long ago. Don't forget the Vistula Legion, whilst equipped largely in the French uniforms were proud of their Polish roots and often sought to exhibit this in their attire.

We're very pleased with the result of this set and especially Peter Dennis' box art.

Cheers and Happy Easter!

Paul

Honestly... This left me deeply in doubt. Essentially what he said is: "We have the info from a book I can not name and it is supported by unnamed contacts of the sculptor. But all are from Poland so it must be correct." If you supply sources like that in a scientific paper it would get smashed and basically... The first step for sculpting minis is historic (=scientific) research.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: cdr on March 31, 2013, 12:21:49 PM
Bronislaw Gembarzewski was an officer in both the Imperial Russian and Polish armies and a founder/director of the Warsaw military museum. His research is considered very very good he was able to use a lot of material and original pieces that were later lost during world war II. 
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Gibby on March 31, 2013, 12:31:24 PM
Quote
Rest assured, these miniatures are correct – as much as we can know of something that happened so long ago.

Hmmm. Sounds like a bit of a disclaimer there. I suspect the cheapness and ease of using existing sprues has more to do with how they look here. Typical Warlord, to be honest, nearly all their "new" barbarian types use those old Celt bodies still.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: janner on March 31, 2013, 05:29:21 PM
Well, the rifleman is the sweetener figure.......

Swift and Bold  ;)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Elbows on April 01, 2013, 07:46:53 AM
Hmmm. Sounds like a bit of a disclaimer there. I suspect the cheapness and ease of using existing sprues has more to do with how they look here. Typical Warlord, to be honest, nearly all their "new" barbarian types use those old Celt bodies still.

I was going to say - regurgitated models with a couple metal command minis, or swapped heads is...well, it's the Warlord way.  I can't express how pissed I was (before understanding how warlord works...) when I originally ordered a box of each ECW faction..only to find it was the same damn sprues with different sticker flags tossed in the box.

I want to like Warlord stuff but I get so damn tired of their shady practices...I haven't bought anything else since.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Arthur on April 01, 2013, 05:14:57 PM
For what it's worth, Roger Murrow is going to release some Vistula Legion figures later this year in his Muraswki range. The figures will be sculpted by Paul Hicks, who already did Roger's superb Duchy of Warsaw figures. 
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: King Tiger on April 01, 2013, 08:11:34 PM
http://www.frontrank.com/2_9_lev3_Napoleonic_Polish.asp
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: King Tiger on April 02, 2013, 08:39:52 AM
Another strange one on the plastics front. I always seen plastics as the way to get large armies quick. How many boxes of Polish would you actually need before you go oh i have enough.
Going by warlords info you need 6 max.
3 regiments of 2 battalion each (meaning 6 battalions)
Each battalion being 6 companies of 140 men (840 total)
Black powder is around a 25-1 ratio for infantry so each battalion is 33.6 models (or 32-34 rounding)
Each box is 36 models so that's 6 boxes and leaving you 12-24 spares.
Simple.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Aaron on April 02, 2013, 12:10:25 PM
For what it's worth, Roger Murrow is going to release some Vistula Legion figures later this year in his Muraswki range. The figures will be sculpted by Paul Hicks, who already did Roger's superb Duchy of Warsaw figures. 

I picked up a sample of the Muraski Poles with my last Eureka order and I have to say they are fantastic. I am afraid I will fail my discipline test and order a load of them before long despite the fact that I have piles of unpainted napoleonics sitting around already.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: joroas on April 02, 2013, 01:21:46 PM
Is there only one Paul Hicks?  Can he be cloned?  :D
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Arthur on April 02, 2013, 02:09:39 PM
Is there only one Paul Hicks?  Can he be cloned?  :D

Nope, but he happens to be the reincarnation of the goddess Mahakali (the ten-armed version, that is, as opposed to the four-armed Kali, who clearly can't match Paul's output).

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ve-m593m8j4/UKdDsTv_kpI/AAAAAAAAAcw/3oXYxMYgu4E/s1600/qwe.jpg)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Argonor on April 02, 2013, 07:04:24 PM
Hmm... the Front Rank minis have the closed lapels but not (as far as I can see from the small pics) extended all the way down to the waist, as is the most common variety in illustrations.

I don't know what is more correct...
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: grant on April 22, 2013, 05:39:59 AM
Warlord also have a Polish sculptor on staff, which I am sure helped.

I do trust them on these, and can imagine they will end up in my army at some point!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: kenohhkc on April 23, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
Oh man, Paul Hicks VL, like his DoW ones. I'm in finally the French can have some interesting reinforcements in the Penninsula!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on April 23, 2013, 09:23:59 PM
I have received my box and had a quick gander at it.

I'll knock up some shots and a full description shortly.

There are plenty heads, mostly in shakos rather then czapka, but there at least 10 or so of these plus a few bearskins and pokalems.

There are 4 metal figs, 2 Officers, a Sapper and a Drummer.

Full review to follow....

 :)
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Lord of Jerwood on April 23, 2013, 09:49:08 PM
anyone know how they compare to offensive one ?
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on April 24, 2013, 09:36:07 PM
Ok,
Review time.

Opening the box there are 8 sprues of plastic figures.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/s_insch/bb37b6dc7ff33d2a80d84aada440d34d_zps99c0b7fb.jpg)

There are 4 metal command figures and a selection of metal heads.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/s_insch/2a9c60ead896a6d5858b31184b923443_zpsebeea393.jpg)

The bad news is indeed that the plastic figure sprues are the Warlord French.

Each sprue has 3 centre co figs and one flank co fig. As you can see there are 7 czapka heads and 11 shako heads with the sunburst patter plate.  The other heads are French shako with the lozenge plate which features an eagle or number 2 or 3.

The metal figures are two officers, a drummer and sapper. These are nice and have plenty of relief for painting. The drummer is in the imperial livery.

Relief on the plastic figures is perhaps a little lighter than on the Perry plastics, but is similar to the Victrix figs.

I make the figs approx 28mm foot to eye and overall they are probably less chunky than Front Rank but slightly more so than Perry.

All poses are march attack and the only assembly required is the head and the pack. These latter pieces are marked with Imperial "N", bugle or grenade.

Ok now for a comparison with the uniforms!

As these figures are based on "mid" French they have the long coat with square cuffs. There is nothing obviously " Polish" about the uniform other than the metal czapka. Warlord have said that this is because the Vistula Legion was equipped from a variety of sources including French regular line uniforms. Unlike other Polish regiments this does seem to have been the case, and a trawl through various Google sources seems to back this up, or at least confirm that uniform varied quite a bit.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/s_insch/67afa874eb3b06acb743e6a5ef6aeec7_zpsbe98a95f.jpg)

(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/s_insch/cb9568fb5286787d1df4d8ce5afb714e_zps237d11a7.jpg)

Overall they are nice figures, quick to assemble - but the metal head/plastic body interface is a fiddle to fix and probably needs a pin to make secure. The uniforms are a real mix - 1812 drummer, 1807/8 inf in long coat not kurta. I know Warlord say they've got a Polish expert advising on the uniform and I've read their notes on the figures but I can't help feeling disappointed by them - I think they've tried to cover too many bases here.

They'll paint up well and if you are not a button counter then you won't be too worried. If you are you will give these a body swerve. If like me you are somewhat inbetween you will be trying work out how to use them somehow!



Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: grant on April 25, 2013, 08:18:01 PM
Thanks for the review, those do look good, and with the various points/counterpoints I think you've summed it up quite well as to usage. Probably will get two boxes myself for my French Army - I think they're "Just Historical Enough" for me! :D
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: ARKOUDAKI on April 25, 2013, 11:42:18 PM
Many thanks for the review and pics. Definitely take a swerve to miss these recycled French....

As others have said, the Murowski Poles are fantastic....so give them a try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: King Tiger on April 26, 2013, 01:35:43 PM
Never was a fan much of the warlord French, and the laziness of these really puts me off, I can't stand plastic-metal combi models much, and with the price, uniform and just general laziness I'm not suprised allot of the comments and opinions of these are underwhelmed customers.

I also wonder from previous warlord experience if the metal command are tiny in comparison to the plastics?, hard to tell from pics.

Another letdown honestly, I was hoping plastic bodies and heads, with just the command in metal, which still would not make me buy them, I'm just not into the whole leather bondage thigh high boots thing these French seem to love showing off.
Title: Re: Warlord Plastic Vistula Legion and Waterloo book on pre-order
Post by: H.M.Stanley on April 26, 2013, 05:24:33 PM
According to my sources stockists are avoiding these WL Poles. I'd quite like some Poles to add to my French but not these

I've just picked up my copy of the AT2 and very nice it is too. I have to declare a vested interest though as i get an honourable mention by Ady Mc (playtesting)