Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => SuperHero Adventures => Topic started by: obsidian3d on May 15, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iello/guardians-chronicles
The only game I have from iello is King of Tokyo, which I like a lot, but it isn't really the same genre or style. I've looked through the pledges and components for Guardians Chronicles, and think that it looks decent. Not amazing, just decent.
The pledge levels and hero add-ons seems to be pretty expensive, and last I checked there wasn't an actual game play video yet. At least not a good one.
Has anyone else looked at this? What were/are your impressions of the game and campaign? I'm curious to hear what other folks' opinions are.
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iello/guardians-chronicles
The only game I have from iello is King of Tokyo, which I like a lot, but it isn't really the same genre or style. I've looked through the pledges and components for Guardians Chronicles, and think that it looks decent. Not amazing, just decent.
The pledge levels and hero add-ons seems to be pretty expensive, and last I checked there wasn't an actual game play video yet. At least not a good one.
Has anyone else looked at this? What were/are your impressions of the game and campaign? I'm curious to hear what other folks' opinions are.
It isn't that expensive, but not compared to other stuff. Robotech is breaking the bank for many people. Me included. I am watching this one and may jump on the wagon but it will be later on once I know my cash is there. I want to have money where my mouth is. lol
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Looks like they're going to hit their funding pretty soon. They also cleaned up their pledge descriptions so it's easier to see what you get in each one.
I pledged on this one at "Villains Strike Back" level. I like the overall style of the game and figures. Even if the game isn't that great, I think I can make use of all the components, either with Zombicide or even Sedition Wars to mix in the tiles and traps and stuff.
If you want to check it out here's the link http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iello/guardians-chronicles
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I have to sell some stuff first before I can pledge. The wife is already unhappy with the Robotech KS and amount spent...she isn't going to be happier when I try to sneak a MAC II and Armored VT unit in...once I sell some stuff...
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Haha no doubt. I'm still ogling the Deadzone campaign...and I just don't need more games or figures. But...oh how I want them!
At least w/ a superhero game I know I can get some folks to play. Other themes are much more difficult among my group. Now that Guardians Chronicles has hit their funding I hope that they'll start busting through stretches so I can get more plastic/resin goodies. :D
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Haha no doubt. I'm still ogling the Deadzone campaign...and I just don't need more games or figures. But...oh how I want them!
At least w/ a superhero game I know I can get some folks to play. Other themes are much more difficult among my group. Now that Guardians Chronicles has hit their funding I hope that they'll start busting through stretches so I can get more plastic/resin goodies. :D
I can see perhaps getting my wife to play Guardians Chronicles...at least if anything an eve with the guys eating pizza and soda throwing some dice.
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I'm surprised that there aren't a few more people on the boards looking at this. On the other hand though, the superhero section is probably one of the quieter ones in here.
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I'm surprised that there aren't a few more people on the boards looking at this. On the other hand though, the superhero section is probably one of the quieter ones in here.
It is. I also suspect there are a great deal of lurkers and frankly this is a bad month with so many good KS up against one another. Robotech, Crossover, Zombiecide II (just ended) just to name a few, there are others out there soaking up expendable income. The problem is people have only so much so in the end something gets the shaft which sucks.
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Cash isn't the only problem with all these campaigns. After you pay for it and it finally arrives you have to find the time to prep and build the models, prime them, paint them...gah, who has that kind of time?! :)
It's still fun being part of the journey for the campaign, and I do hope this game will hit quite a few more goals.
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Cash isn't the only problem with all these campaigns. After you pay for it and it finally arrives you have to find the time to prep and build the models, prime them, paint them...gah, who has that kind of time?! :)
It's still fun being part of the journey for the campaign, and I do hope this game will hit quite a few more goals.
If I get this and the figures are 28mm range, then I will b double happy!
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I asked about the scale before I pledged. They're in the 28-32mm range.
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Those sculpts look great - here's hoping they do a sculpts only pledge level.
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Wouldn't hurt to ask, they've been very accommodating to feedback.
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Wouldn't hurt to ask, they've been very accommodating to feedback.
I agree they unlike other KS seem to care about the feedback as they changed their whole pledge aspect because of some suggestions. I respect that.
Just have to find money now (aks sell crap on ebay) to buy this and the Crossover KS. I was in one other one but I already dropped out to consolidate my interests.
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I'm in on the deadzone one which looks like gangbusters. I might even up my pledge. I do hope people will keep joining for Guardians. The more stretches we hit the better deal each of the pledges is.
The crossover one looks good and I've been in contact with Rusti. Still haven't decided if I'll jump in on it yet, but their figures do look good too.
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Wow two hero stretches unlocked today! Rage and L'Intrepid are both out. I think the second guy could look really good with the right paint job.
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I really have to work on listing some stuff tomorrow to sell. Only about what? 2 weeks left before it ends. I want to see if I can get at least the minimal with perks...I love that $160 deal....I figure i may could swing that depending on the outcome of the Crossover Pledge....then I still have the pledge manager to hit for Robotech and I want to slip in an upgrade or three....ugh! I need to sell like crazy!
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This does look great. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to go in on this andwill just have to hope some of the minis are available later after the KS is ended - they do look fabulous :o. As I said on the Crossover thread, wallet is dry and nothing to sell (must ...keep ....all....I.... have)
Hope this flies and gets all the unlocks for you guys! (I will have to watch this carefully...my resolve may weaken.)
EDIT: I'm in at Hero level. Mrs Muncehead said it could be a birthday present for me.
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A few more items to Ebay or Bartertown and I am in buisness! at least for the Hero level, maybe I can talk the difference for my birthday!
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Cool, glad to hear you guys could make it work. Another villain unlocked yesterday.
I also posted asking about a miniatures-only pledge level, but I haven't had a chance to check back and see if there was any response about it.
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Cool, glad to hear you guys could make it work. Another villain unlocked yesterday.
I also posted asking about a miniatures-only pledge level, but I haven't had a chance to check back and see if there was any response about it.
I am pushing hard to try to make sure I have enough cash for min. pledges for Crossover ($44), $100 hero for this and about $90 for Robotech (want to add Armored VT, MAC II and the new Fighter Set). I already planned if I get extra I would boost Crossover and Guardians up if I can and considering dropping the fighters from Robotech to ensure I get everything. I can live without the experimental VT.
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*must paint more figures*
I keep ordering / pledging and the pile keeps getting bigger! But man it's fun to watch the campaigns go. :)
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*must paint more figures*
I keep ordering / pledging and the pile keeps getting bigger! But man it's fun to watch the campaigns go. :)
I am going to ease off the throttle after this.
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I don't have any choice. Can't afford any more, and I'm pretty much out room to store stuff.
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I don't have any choice. Can't afford any more, and I'm pretty much out room to store stuff.
Oh the $ and the wife is the issue, not the storage space! lol
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This is my last 'splurge' for the year - I have to take time to focus on painting figures and building terrain. (Need some terrain for my 60+ Empire of the Dead figures arriving in the next month or two if that goes to plan)
I am toying with doing the game boards for this game in 3D, will see how they look when it arrives in October.
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If you want to do 3d boards have a look at the work one of the members over on the Sedition Wars forum is doing using Hirst Arts molds. They're amazing!
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Got a link for those Obsidian3D?
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This http://studiomcvey.com/forums/index.php?/topic/260-hirst-arts-terrian-step-by-step-videos/ looks like it.
Food for thought there.
Mind you - given the price of the moulds, I think I may try the plasticard, plasti-pipe route with room boundries carved out of blue board. Maybe I can argue for a Christmas present?
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Thanks, you beat me to the link.
I really like what you can do with the Hirst Arts stuff, but personally I don't have that kind of time. A lot of the molds require that you cast them numerous times to get the parts you need. The other option is buying multiples of the same mold, which makes them less cost effective.
I do admire the skill involved with putting something like that together though!
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Thanks, you beat me to the link.
I really like what you can do with the Hirst Arts stuff, but personally I don't have that kind of time. A lot of the molds require that you cast them numerous times to get the parts you need. The other option is buying multiples of the same mold, which makes them less cost effective.
I do admire the skill involved with putting something like that together though!
I helped a buddy cast a bunch of stuff and the molds are cool and the detail is great but wow what a pain in the rear and you have to be real careful about air bubbles as we had several items catch air pockets in spots.
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If you're still on the fence about the game and want to try it out, Iello has released a print-and-play version of the game on their website.
http://www.iellogames.com/Guardians_Chronicles.html
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If you're still on the fence about the game and want to try it out, Iello has released a print-and-play version of the game on their website.
http://www.iellogames.com/Guardians_Chronicles.html
I may do this....I may could tinker around with this after the tournament. I was thinking of trying a game of X-wing perhaps...this is another option. Print out and bring.
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Win some superheroes!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/988132/iello-guardians-chronicles-contest-ends-jun-13th
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If you are on the fence, tight about money then they just dropped 30 more $52 sidekick deals, not as good as the $160 or other packages but it is the basic game! Enough to enjoy now and expand later!
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Getting to the last day and they are over $90k. Apparently planning a $110k stretch goal too. The $160 pledge gets you every miniature so well worth a look, especially as it gives you 82 figures.
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Getting to the last day and they are over $90k. Apparently planning a $110k stretch goal too. The $160 pledge gets you every miniature so well worth a look, especially as it gives you 82 figures.
Not to mention the game, dice, game board, cards and all the other goodies! I am very happy with how they have managed this KS and listens to the fans for input!
They still have tons of the $52 basic kits even if you can't afford the $160 pledge (which is a better deal) you can get the basic game to enjoy! Join up! Don't be shy!
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16 hours left! $160 deal gets you everything! No add-on crap like other KS! They just dropped three more new goals including new tiles, a new villain and a new objective character (presidents daughter)...even if you are short on cash the smaller early bird deals are floating around!
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Now that they've hit their 100k mark the $160 pledge is a very nice deal. I'm glad that they were able to reach it. The last three goals will probably hit, but to me it doesn't matter. I'm really looking forward to seeing how all the character's powers work!
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Just backed this. Hope they can make the last three.
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I know people wants the bonus tiles...it may could happen!
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YAY!! The $100k is passed!
Exceedingly pleased I took the plunge on this..... so the Box won't arrive until late October at the earliest? Good gives my wife a chance to calm down from the Empire of the Dead figures when they arrive. :D
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Unless they both arrive close enough just to make her mad again... :P
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Unless they both arrive close enough just to make her mad again... :P
*blinks*
*starts packing*
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*blinks*
*starts packing*
Do you have a man-cave?
If so fortify it!
If not, build a bunker now!!!!!
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There are still tons of deals and 4 hours left to pledge! Join the Liberty Patrol today and be a hero! Pledge now! $160 gets you everything, a sweet deal that just keeps getting sweeter!
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Nice end to the campaign there - very pleased and roll on expansions/Guardians Chronicles 2. :)
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A shame we didn't hit the aqua warriors. But good steam near the end! Maybe they'll toss them in for free? :)
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A shame we didn't hit the aqua warriors. But good steam near the end! Maybe they'll toss them in for free? :)
Be nice but I doubt it, free is a rare thing these days. I am very happy with what we got....October can't be here fast enough!
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Looks like we are getting the aqua warriors at the $160 pledge level after all. The latest update has a revised graphic of what's in that pledge level and I have to say I'm pretty excited about it. It's a shame that we're suffering from delays, but it seems to be more the norm than not for game Kickstarters. :(
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Looks like we are getting the aqua warriors at the $160 pledge level after all. The latest update has a revised graphic of what's in that pledge level and I have to say I'm pretty excited about it. It's a shame that we're suffering from delays, but it seems to be more the norm than not for game Kickstarters. :(
Well, sounds like the starter game is rolling out soon, within this month or next (depending on Red Joker's meaning) of shipping this month (either to us or from China).
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Just wanted to show the awesome minis that we will be getting.....
this is the before, keep in mind Iello told us they were going away from hard plastic and resin to a better quality plastic.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/629/404/5fc13df6f0c0e54eb63a7a3cef4a0162_large.jpg)
the above picture is the sculpt they pitched to us...
Now here is the super awesome mini we will be getting..
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/814/485/7b8b0e7e078a67d7f6ecc7d96047f6c5_large.JPG)
the before of Pr. Sarkov
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/618/022/6a4376b0a63b5fd4ab4d232686c57b87_large.jpg)
notice how ugly those details are.
Now notice this nice comic book style
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/814/497/c5eaa2315efca8fa23bd3c04841517a9_large.JPG)
a vast improvement over the original I must say.
If you guys did not back this KS I bet you guys are upset you are missing out on these nice minis.
One more so you can see the improvement in quality.
Old
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/434618/posts/511028/image-274830-full.jpg)
the original ugly one they pitched to us you can clearly make out a hand and fingers.
new and improved
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/814/471/ea23f56f7e683eb2a5ab44f3a10ded5c_large.JPG)
I can't see any fingers and the hand looks like it is part of the stick he is holding.
I must say those are awesome minis, I can see what they mean by going to this new plastic and the "Softer comic style" is totally acheived
Dont take my word for it, Iello said so themselves.
@******* - Our intent is to create figures that match a softer comic book style. Holding these figures in my hands, and considering their intended use, I personally think these figures look good, and will serve their function very well. I know your opinion will differ, and I appreciate you sharing that opinion.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iello/guardians-chronicles/posts/793973?cursor=6342537#comment-6342536
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And when you pee into the wind, you will get it on you....... lol
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And when you pee into the wind, you will get it on you....... lol
unfortunately they peed on our leg and told us it was raining.
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Those are really bad. Even WizKids can make better miniatures.
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Oooof! Much reduced quality, I nearly backed this purely for the minis, but finances
we're too tight for me at the time, so I couldn't. Lucky escape
Regards
Jim
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That's truly a tragedy that such nice designs have been so poorly executed. I bet the sculptors are really disappointed. :(
I hope the game still fun so it's not a total washout.
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When I was kid in the 1970's and 1980's, getting plastic army men and sci-fi figures in plastic bags with stapled header cards was a great treat. That's what the finished product of this KS reminds me of.
They look nothing like what was promised.
This KS is a cautionary tale on so many levels. Very sad. Feel badly for the backers and everyone involved.
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When I was kid in the 1970's and 1980's, getting plastic army men and sci-fi figures in plastic bags with stapled header cards was a great treat. That's what the finished product of this KS reminds me of.
They look nothing like what was promised.
This KS is a cautionary tale on so many levels. Very sad. Feel badly for the backers and everyone involved.
I find it sad some people are defending them saying that we are owed nothing etc... Truly disappointed in Iello. I will never back another product of theirs ever.
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How someone can screw production of minis like that from such clean sculpts is beyond me!
Cutting corners with money in the bank eh? if anyone wanted to get a refund they could probably have them on failure to provide product as described or on the basis of quality and potential failure to meet expectations.
Shame
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Lucky me, my peg leg told me not to support that KS ...SuperSystem4, here we go !
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Thanks for the comparison set-ups rollntider. The 'new improved' stuff they're showing is truly is awful, and is definitely not the products they were showing us during the campaign. I'm not really sure what to do about it at this point...all I know is that I don't want those figures...they're bloody terrible looking.
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sheesh, did they use Defiance Games to make their new improved models shown there? they are absolutely effing awful.
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And then they have the gall to spruik the project over in a digital magazine called casual gamer! Showing the original sculpts to boot! Dodgy pool old man.
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Found what you're talking about here http://casualgamerevolution.com/magazine/issues/cgi7-guardians-chronicles-game-conventions-and-microgames
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I know that I have been pretty reserved over the last couple of weeks in my opinion of this Kickstarter, but it looks like they are listening to a lot of the feedback and have released a large update.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iello/guardians-chronicles/posts
Basically, they have said the box will ship with the sub standard minis so that it can go out for backers and retail sales and such other matters. This will ship out in 10 weeks.
They admit that they are not what was promised but have said that backers will receive the high quality ones we were shown during the campaign. They will also ship out the extra figures and the exclusives after the main boxed sets are out.
If none of this suits, they do offer the ability to apply for a refund. They didn't have to do this - they are planning on delivering their product and meeting their obligations - but they did, which shows a certain amount of class.
I was optimistic but after reading others' comments I am torn. The renders are okay but nowhere near the level of the minis that we saw during the kickstarter. If they are what the minis are being based on, does that mean in 3 months there will be the same problem? Why can't they use a hard plastic like in Zombicide or Super Dungeon Explore?
I also find myself, as a modder of figures, thinking that the miniatures won't matter that much as I can make my own if it comes down to it. But I did plunk down approx $200 AUD for this game, mainly based on the miniatures. I also find myself thinking that for all the hubbub and ruckus, no-one has complained about the game rules ( from what we have seen ) so it will probably be a good game.
Are there any others here who backed this project? What are your thoughts?
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The bit on refunds said you can apply for a refund ... but they will evaluate the validity of the request on a case-by-case basis, and don't think any of the problems thus far are a justification for asking for your money back. In their book, 'delays' (timetable undisclosed) are not a valid reason to ask for a refund.
So the bottom line is, do you want to put your money into it, knowing the history of the KS thus far? Do you believe the issues thus far are not indicative of the general honesty or integrity of the company and feel able to believe their new promises as to what will finally be delivered? Do you think an indeterminate wait for a game that may or may not be what they promised at the start is worth taking a punt on?
You pays your money, you makes your choice.
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I backed this, and I want my money back. They've outright lied to us backers more than once, even going as far as telling us on 4 December that
the mold of the pieces for the base game are all finished and the production is starting anytime now, the files are ready to go to print and our factory is promising that the games should ship from China mid January.
That was clearly NOT true on 4 December, and they knew it, or should have. It wasn't until 26 Feb that we find out the molds were not done/not done right and had just started being worked.
The move from actual sculpted minis to the digicrap they are producing is not what I was promised. During the KS, several of the exclusive/extra figs were to be in resin, that is clearly not on the table any more and instead I can expect soft castings of soft detailed digital sculpts.
Between a lack of integrity shown so far, and a change to digital sculpts, they have lost all credibility with me. They could promise me the sun would rise in the east tomorrow morning and I would doubt that, and wonder what their excises for the failure would be.
Their latest update clearly shows they have the money to spend on legal work (it was obviously run past a lawyer which accounts for the way it is written and time it took to release it). Now they can spend some of that refunding me, heck they can even keep the cut Amazon and Kickstarter grabbed.
If you look at their other project, Zombie 15, you can see they believe soft digital sculpts and the resulting castings are fine. You can see their petulance in the way they've handled a backer in the comments (who they basically refunded to shut up).
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I am going to go further.
I honestly believe that with the intent to ship out something they know is sub-par, they then will make use of the opportunity to claim "We sent you a game, we can't just give you a refund now" when they fail to produce quality figures for some future shipment.
That would fit the pattern of deceit we've seen from them.
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The change to 3D sculpts still confuses me. We were shown greens, and in fact some of the pledge levels included a sculpted green (not to mention the vanished resin items). At this point I expect the new-and-improved figures to still be generally sh!t, but I'm relatively certain they'll decline most of the requests for refunds.
I didn't think anyone could do worse than the Cool Mini / Studio McVey debacle on the second batch of Sedition Wars. Apparently I was totally, and sadly mistaken. My only hope now is that the game is decent, if/when it actually arrives.
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I am on the fence still, I am thinking I am going to draft a refund request next week and chew on it for a few days.
Clearly we have this:
1) A great deal of talk, no timelines, not even guesstimates. I could get more from the weather channel, the farmer's almanac and a gypsy that has a shop on the side of the road.
2) A clear swap from the sculpted greens, yes some figs was to be plastic, the rest resin....now everything appears to be going 3d rendering and still to me does not look that great.
3) What was promised was both highly detailed game miniatures and a game....giving half is a joke. Plus putting out a crappy package now just says we don't care or want to loose money because we made a bad call.
I deal in contracts and the law, not law of this level but I know what to look for...my draft is going to have a nice cites to it and solid reasons.....as I said unless things sway me soon, I am going to drop my request for refund.
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Every time we get new 'info', it just leaves me with a ton more questions. The most recent update certainly feels lawyer-reviewed-and-approved to me too. I'd be very interested to see your draft styx. On the other hand, I am pretty sure they'll be denying almost every refund request they get.
I really thought the game looked promising, but the figures were what truly pushed it over the top. The figure concepts shown on the project home page looked great, added to what looked like a fun game. Now...ugh. Those 3D render images we've been shown are tiny and I think that they're scaled that way on purpose, because Iello knows they're not good enough to stand closer scrutiny.
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I will let you know and I can email you a copy….
Today at lunch I was combing the KS rules and regs for service. I am looking at deliverables to the backers first.
Then I am going to get cites of things….
Plus I am going to close and be clear I will consider going to the Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau and Small Claims Court here in Florida. I am not going to back down easy.
Yea, what they posted was lawyer reviewed ( or at least by a para-legal)….because they are afraid. They know they are on thin ice and they can end up in a bad place. They stand to loose money and credibility on an already poorly executed project. They are trying to cow people with subtle threats (we may not refund) and hollow promises. Not working….
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If you can use a co-complaintant from Georgia, let me know.
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I figure we could light up a few states out of the 50! lol
Alabama, Florida and Georgia taking the charge! We will see....
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I figure we could light up a few states out of the 50! lol
Alabama, Florida and Georgia taking the charge! We will see....
Add Alabama to the list
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The really frustrating part of all this is that, if they'd just made what was started (figures from the sculpted greens) they'd probably be done by now and everyone who pledged would be happy. Rather, they started f*cking around with digital sh!t (not that digital sculpts can't look fab), wasted time and money and general screwed the pooch. Now they're scrambling to not lose their shirts in a crapstorm of their own making.
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Add Alabama to the list
*poke* It was brother! ;)
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I wonder if Iello will simply ignore the folks who are unhappy and continue along as they are. Making good minis for a boardgame really shouldn't be that damn hard. I have dozens of examples in my collection.
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We'll see. No one has mentioned being told yes or no to a refund yet. I know I am being ignored by Iello. It annoys me.
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I am going to finish my draft this week and drop it. I was giving them time to read the questions and respond. They are like roaches and when you turn on the light they scurry away until the know it is safe. I am not feeling it and to be honest, I was at a LGS this weekend, saw a board game and went "cool, my wife would like to play this with me..." flipped over to the back to read more, saw IELLO on the back and it promptly went back to the shelf.
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I am going to finish my draft this week and drop it. I was giving them time to read the questions and respond. They are like roaches and when you turn on the light they scurry away until the know it is safe. I am not feeling it and to be honest, I was at a LGS this weekend, saw a board game and went "cool, my wife would like to play this with me..." flipped over to the back to read more, saw IELLO on the back and it promptly went back to the shelf.
I so want to get the tokyo game they have, but will not be getting it.
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I own it and both expansions and think it is a good game. It shares nothing in common with Guardians Chronicles other than the publisher. That said however, I certainly haven't been inclined to play it recently, which reflects just how sour I feel towards them at the moment. My enjoyment of a previously favourite game has been flattened due to recent events. Not a good thing.
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I am another backer, and am still waiting to see if I will get a refund. It could have been a great game. What a way to sabotage the game. Grrrr. :-[
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Interestingly enough there seems to be a fair bit of chatter about it online in French. I linked to a page from a game trade show that was showing off stuff about GC earlier this year. They had test shots in the photos of the preliminary miniatures, and these were not shared with us. I simply don't get it... Short answer is that I just want the stuff I pledged for, but whether or not I'll ever play it if I do is tough. I can definitely imagine hating it even if it's great, simply because of all the crap we had to deal with prior to delivery.
I do hope that those who are questing after refunds get their wish, but I also hope that it doesn't affect those who just want their game and reward items in the quality advertised in-campaign. If iello can actually address both of those groups they might not be completely f-ed, but their reputation in a lot of circles will be damaged near to being unrecoverable.
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Got my refund. Never sent in a request actually but I guess I was too much of a hell raiser on the board. lol
Oh well, good for me now I have $160 to spend on other goodies!
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How were you notified Styx? I am still waiting for a refund.
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Got my refund. Never sent in a request actually but I guess I was too much of a hell raiser on the board. lol
Oh well, good for me now I have $160 to spend on other goodies!
Wait, what?! You never actually asked for a refund and they dumped you? While I can imagine you're happy getting off the nightmare train, that doesn't exactly support their claims of 'high ethical standards' if you ask me.
"Boss, that guy complained about our stuff. You know, the game that we produced on the cheap so Red Joker could have lots of money left to buy a house and start his own company with?"
"Huh, give him a refund from the lunch fund and make him go away."
"But, boss, he hasn't actually asked for a refund. He only said he didn't like what we were doing."
"F**k him, give him his money back so he's no longer a backer. Non-backers don't have a voice."
"Ok boss. Consider it done."
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How were you notified Styx? I am still waiting for a refund.
Amazon payments sent the refund notice and info with the transaction ID and such....got an email stating I was refunded my $160....not showing in the bank yet, may take a day or two to post.
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I got the Amazon Payments notification this morning too. I did ask for a refund. Repeatedly. Via several different mechanisms. Over the period of more than 30 days.
Now I can't wait to see how bad Iello fucks up my Heroes of Normandie KS order (they, very unfortunately, are the US distribution for Devil Pig Games) and how non-responsive they are when I ask them to fix their screw up. :-[
(I have zero faith they will get it right, and even less faith they will work diligently to address any issues :P )
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Wait, what?! You never actually asked for a refund and they dumped you? While I can imagine you're happy getting off the nightmare train, that doesn't exactly support their claims of 'high ethical standards' if you ask me.
"Boss, that guy complained about our stuff. You know, the game that we produced on the cheap so Red Joker could have lots of money left to buy a house and start his own company with?"
"Huh, give him a refund from the lunch fund and make him go away."
"But, boss, he hasn't actually asked for a refund. He only said he didn't like what we were doing."
"F**k him, give him his money back so he's no longer a backer. Non-backers don't have a voice."
"Ok boss. Consider it done."
Two things from terms of service:
* Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
* Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.
They could say they are reducing hostile comments or negative comments about the KS if they had to justify it. Which they don't. The second bullet gives them the right to pull anyone.
I was a bit rude, but rightly so after being ignored with the others by Iello. I did say I am or was going to ask for a refund, some of my comments had me on the fence waiting to see if they could clean up their crap. I did tell them that both the dice and figures looked like S*** and not what was shown or promised. I did encourage people to consider going to the BBB, Consider Small claims or class action among other things if Iello can't get their act right. I was researching KS guidelines looking for some means to get out of the KS if I wanted to and justify it.
In any case, while they try to say they are a professional company that has produced several games with high ethical standards.
They are not either high in ethics or professional.
A professional would have had a game plan on how to handle, even a rough draft. Over and over, we got the same jive crap that they are working on things. They had no guesses on dates or estimates for a timeline. I work in contracts and deal with construction, they give estimates and timelines. If you have to adjust those estimates you do so....things happen and the unexpected crops up. Iello just drops the ball and says nothing but yea, we are fixing it. They are not saying clear goals or anything.
They attempted to cut corners and produce shoddy products with printed dice (instead of carved) and 3d imaged game figures instead of the quality figures they promised. They showed the dice and was hit with negative comments. They showed the figures and the same happened. Then they act shocked and didn't utter a word that they changed these things.
They have horrible communication and their management sucks and it shows....even Robotech that has been delayed has at least been able to pony up things and give some feedback, but they are also been around longer (Palladium) Since this year, we saw only the dice and maybe some artwork along with the badly done figs....this is all within a year's time. Bad project management.
So yea, I am glad they refunded me. I can move on now and I will never invest in Iello's stuff again. They lost a customer and I am sure many others. They are going to cut the negative commentors away and leave the quiet ones and the cheerleaders they may still have to make their project look like it is all rainbows and flying ponies with candy flowers everywhere....
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(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130905022422/cardfight/images/c/cd/36243-slow-clap-citizen-kane-orson-w-bJkI.gif)
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What's your KS name CptJake? I'll post on the comments that you also were refunded.
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Jake Rose is my KS name.
Send Iello my love.
;)
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What's your KS name CptJake? I'll post on the comments that you also were refunded.
Oh you should mention I never contacted them for an official refund...that would hack off some people!
Now what to spend my $ on?
Crossover is having a 15% off, I do need some Minions
Mega Mats are on sale at Table War - $102 with shipping for me....high on my list of wants..
Bob is dropping out lots of French WW2 vehicles on Bolt Action Net
Crusader has tasty Calvary I want for WW2 french
Gorgon just did French Foreign Legion in coats....
Oh the choices!
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got my refund also.
I will back off of Iello. I dount I will get my pledge manager funds. It was $15, I don't really care at this point. I wanted my 185 back. I bought some cryx for warmachine and will sit back and maybe get some crossover dudes. With whats left over I will upgrade my pulp city pledge and get another faction :)
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I guess I need to start getting a little more vocal over there.
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got my refund also.
I will back off of Iello. I dount I will get my pledge manager funds. It was $15, I don't really care at this point. I wanted my 185 back. I bought some cryx for warmachine and will sit back and maybe get some crossover dudes. With whats left over I will upgrade my pulp city pledge and get another faction :)
Yours showed on your account? Wife said it was not showing yet on mine.
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So yea, I am glad they refunded me. I can move on now and I will never invest in Iello's stuff again. They lost a customer and I am sure many others. They are going to cut the negative commentors away and leave the quiet ones and the cheerleaders they may still have to make their project look like it is all rainbows and flying ponies with candy flowers everywhere....
I agree with everything you said, but I wanted to point out that not everyone who is staying with the project is going to play the role of cheerleader. I've decided to stay and have not asked for a refund (I've actually said I don't want one). The main reason I've chosen to stay is so that I can continue to ask questions about what they're saying and doing. Not that that seems to be much of anything lately...or maybe ever.
However, I'm definitely swearing off Iello's products based on this experience and will be sharing it with everyone I can.
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I agree with everything you said, but I wanted to point out that not everyone who is staying with the project is going to play the role of cheerleader. I've decided to stay and have not asked for a refund (I've actually said I don't want one). The main reason I've chosen to stay is so that I can continue to ask questions about what they're saying and doing. Not that that seems to be much of anything lately...or maybe ever.
However, I'm definitely swearing off Iello's products based on this experience and will be sharing it with everyone I can.
Heh, at least until you get too vocal and the IGB (Iello's KGB) sends you a refund. lol
"Dis one has spoken out too often..."
"Silence him..."
*REFUND*
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Yours showed on your account? Wife said it was not showing yet on mine.
I logged into amazon payments and it shows there. I contacted and spoke with an amazon lady on the phone and she sees the money, she said it would take 3-4 days to clear.
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Wow, still reading the comments on GC....wow....it is like a second wave of refund requests! So, they are using the refund clause to refund without reason to get negative comments off their page....even if they deserve them and need to be told what they are doing is bad decisions and what they are showing of late is crap. Now I am the fly on the wall..... lol
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The even took a guy off of their other project (Zombie 15) for having the audacity to ask why they took him off of this one.
Not the sign of a good company at all. Amazing really that they are letting this spiral out of control the way they are, and contributing to the spiral with their childish behavior.
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The even took a guy off of their other project (Zombie 15) for having the audacity to ask why they took him off of this one.
Not the sign of a good company at all. Amazing really that they are letting this spiral out of control the way they are, and contributing to the spiral with their childish behavior.
Well, asking on another KS was bad form there on his part.....I can't blame them for doing that, granted it is rather extreme on their part. He should have sent a direct message at that time and asked.
Iello has really done a number on their company rep....they are just attempting to salvage what they can and quiet things down now. *shrug* To me it is like watching Nascar and you know a wreck is about to happen, you can't do anything other than watch.
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In his defense, they ignore you if you contact them privately. They only way to get them to address you is if you address them on a public forum. They've taught and enforced that lesson, now they can reap the rewards of it.
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In his defense, they ignore you if you contact them privately. They only way to get them to address you is if you address them on a public forum. They've taught and enforced that lesson, now they can reap the rewards of it.
Yep, but still didn't get an answer. If nobody says anything on the forums they don't know he got pulled anyway on the Zombie one....Nascar with multiple tracks.....
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So, I've been talking to a Matt on the iello Facebook page ( the French one ) and he has been saying that they will be dealing with people on a case by case basis. I pointed out to him that some of the more vocal and brusque people have been refunded whereas my politer requests have felt ignored. He replied with this response.
Yes, we started to refund backers, and we dealt with the more vocal, negative (and insulting, really) people first, for obvious reasons.
This absolutely doesn't mean that we are overlooking the other, more polite backers, and we will answer to all the requests via KS PM. Refunding someone is not done with just a click, it's definitely a longer process than what everyone seems to believe. But now that it started, it should just be a matter of days. Anyway, we're still giving refunds on a case-to-case basis, because we haven't failed this project. We will deliver the game as promised.
We will also be posting a new update today, and hope we can resume a decent communication with the backers who decided to trust and support us, now that all the negativity is gone.
Now, he has done a couple of things there.
* promised an update...today
* done the backhanded ' you need to trust us silly customer and show your backbone while continuing to support us' tactic that we have seen previously.
The first one means....meh to me at the moment, considering how useless - and condescending - the last one was. The second p***es me right off because it implies I need to grow a pair and get through all this. It's the attitude that turned me from 'wait and see' to 'bugger it, I'm out'.
He also basically has said that he will not be answering anymore questions on the page about the KS and that I should contact them via facebook. Last time I did that I got the ' We will consider your request and inform you soon' response. And, as a late backer, I don't have access to the kickstarter to make comments and have questions answered.
At this point, short of them saying, " Sorry we we're as****es about all this, here you are, here's what we promised and it will be done by this date," I just want a refund and an end to it. Too many other things my meager hobby budget can be spent on.
In frustration,
Bubba242
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So, I've been talking to a Matt on the iello Facebook page ( the French one ) and he has been saying that they will be dealing with people on a case by case basis. I pointed out to him that some of the more vocal and brusque people have been refunded whereas my politer requests have felt ignored. He replied with this response.
Yes, we started to refund backers, and we dealt with the more vocal, negative (and insulting, really) people first, for obvious reasons.
This absolutely doesn't mean that we are overlooking the other, more polite backers, and we will answer to all the requests via KS PM. Refunding someone is not done with just a click, it's definitely a longer process than what everyone seems to believe. But now that it started, it should just be a matter of days. Anyway, we're still giving refunds on a case-to-case basis, because we haven't failed this project. We will deliver the game as promised.
We will also be posting a new update today, and hope we can resume a decent communication with the backers who decided to trust and support us, now that all the negativity is gone.
Now, he has done a couple of things there.
* promised an update...today
* done the backhanded ' you need to trust us silly customer and show your backbone while continuing to support us' tactic that we have seen previously.
The first one means....meh to me at the moment, considering how useless - and condescending - the last one was. The second p***es me right off because it implies I need to grow a pair and get through all this. It's the attitude that turned me from 'wait and see' to 'bugger it, I'm out'.
He also basically has said that he will not be answering anymore questions on the page about the KS and that I should contact them via facebook. Last time I did that I got the ' We will consider your request and inform you soon' response. And, as a late backer, I don't have access to the kickstarter to make comments and have questions answered.
At this point, short of them saying, " Sorry we we're as****es about all this, here you are, here's what we promised and it will be done by this date," I just want a refund and an end to it. Too many other things my meager hobby budget can be spent on.
In frustration,
Bubba242
The funny thing is their inept management of the project, shoddy product swaps from the concepts that was sold to us and piss poor communication is what caused the negative comments in the first place....then when they failed to put on their big boy panties and take the helm with better communication and leadership they spiral out of control and the company seems to be run by a mix of the three stooges and drunken frat boys. They are displacing the blame and doing smoke and mirrors again (it is not us, i it is them)....they are cleaning house now hoping to get positive people posting and cheerleaders so they can do other future KS. Yea, I am just going to watch the wreck happen.
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I translate it as "we don't have to refund, and will only do so for sure if you are mean to us and hurt our feelings. If you are polite, we'll consider it, but since you don't post negative things we are a lot less likely too. You'll eventually get exactly what We Promised*. In the mean time, we'll refuse to communicate via official KS mechanisms because anything we say there is likely to be used against us once it is found to be deception or a lie."
Of course, the vitriol the dislike so much stems directly from their poor communication and deception to begin with. Refusing to address the polite folks via the KS mechanisms will only cause some of the patient/polite backers to become assholes, because they have taught the lesson that being an asshole gets your refund processed, being polite gets you ignored.
*That what We Promised really needs to be defined by them and acknowledged by the remaining backers. In my opinion, they promised detailed minis which cannot be met by the current plan to use the same digital renders they are using now. Those renders just do not have the detail needed to result in the detailed castings I believe were promised during the funding period.
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I received my refund today. I had to ask what the status of my request was, silence for a few days, then ask again while pointing our that they were refunding people that never asked for a refund. I also pointed out in the comments that this was a pretty obvious case of bait and switch. After all that, suddenly I am refunded!
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I received my refund today. I had to ask what the status of my request was, silence for a few days, then ask again while pointing our that they were refunding people that never asked for a refund. I also pointed out in the comments that this was a pretty obvious case of bait and switch. After all that, suddenly I am refunded!
Iello Super-Villain: "Igor....silence that one..."
Igor: "Yes master..." <click>*REFUND*
Iello SV: "Excellent, soon we will have a legion of yes men (and women) that will make us looks like heroes once we deliver this steaming pile of crap in a box we are trying to shuffle off to the masses."
Wife just told me the cash showed in my account, took 2 days from the date of notice.
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And another lap on the Nascar track as the wreck continues to linger...
Iello speaks...
@Ryan Johnson - Thank you for expressing your concerns. We just posted an update, and I'm going to be here to address every question going forward. We will do our best to meet your expectations.
@Brutilus, @Kristian, @Charles, @Arsonor, @Roman, @Virral - Thanks for remaining calm and polite here. We know that there has been a lot of anger, and we also know that there wasn't very much we could do to address that anger. The fact is, we've processed refunds on a case-by-case basis, and we've processed them as quickly as possible. Before things began to move, we knew that there wasn't anything we'd accomplish by trying to put out every fire for every single backer. I've noticed you guys, and I really appreciate your thoughts, your criticisms, and your earnest desire to keep this moving along. Thank you very much!
Yet, they say nothing about those they refunded without making an message request.
They say the same thing again, thanks for concerns, etc...no substance...
This I got a major laugh out of...."there wasn't anything we'd accomplish by trying to put out every fire for every single backer."
1) Save company public image?
2) Retain customers and future customers? Instead you alienate them.
3) Actually deliver what was presented in the KS we pledged for?
4) Communicate with the KS people instead of keeping silent.
5) Start managing the project and present a clear plan of action, even if a rough draft?
I am sure I could think of more...
Bottom line is they was lazy and wanted an easy way out. They didn't want to work or earn anything they just want to get as far from this as possible. I was on the fence, said it several times...
Then we have this line of comedy from their update....
"If we (IELLO, The Red Joker, and our backers) are not happy with the results, we’ll explore other ways to resolve this until we do get it right, and have a product that we can all be happy with."
Sure, refund the critical backers and move on....great job resolving that issue.
And... "We have a plan to address the resin issue, just as we addressed the scale issue. We haven’t been able to discuss any of our plans because of the anger and stress that has been happening in the comments section of this campaign."
Anger and stress? Lack of communication, saying something may have helped reduce it instead of staying silent.
Oh and this..."When we said that we are a highly ethical company, we meant exactly that. When we realized that we had lost the opportunity to have a discussion with our backers, we made the decision to wait until we’d handled some of the refund requests, so that we had an opportunity to calmly discuss our plans with the rest of our backers.
This is not the way we prefer to do business, and this is not the way we normally handle our communications. We apologize to those of you who were disappointed with the way we’ve handled things thus far."
Love the "lost the opportunity", no that had plenty of opportunity. They chose not to. Again, they didn't even bother saying, we refunded several people that did not make a request or just talked about asking for one. They could have calmly discussed things long ago. *sigh* Then the Ethics line really got me as well....good try saving face there guys.
Oh well, I hope those that stay get what they backed. I have been on Reaper Bones and Robotech KS also, yea both had their delays, both was handled well by the companies. I never got annoyed or felt like I had to say much other than I would like an update or see more of something. Never have I even fathomed the idea of asking for a refund. The grave just keeps getting deeper for Iello.
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So when is the next Crossover Kickstarter? I just had some funds open up.
It's now kind of sounding like it will not be all of the figures that they say are going to be done by the greens, but only the original base set ones. There are no greens for the other figures, just artwork. If I'm reading that right. They also seem to be saying that the first shipment it soon. I really wan to see what everyone ends up with from this.
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So when is the next Crossover Kickstarter? I just had some funds open up.
It's now kind of sounding like it will not be all of the figures that they say are going to be done by the greens, but only the original base set ones. There are no greens for the other figures, just artwork. If I'm reading that right. They also seem to be saying that the first shipment it soon. I really wan to see what everyone ends up with from this.
I figure Rusty is a year away at least....I know he is working on sculpts and such he mentioned I think either on the last KS or here on the boards....
I am sure we can talk Obsaidian to post up some images of his set....he is staying on board....unless he gets too vocal and booted. lol
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Oddly enough, as vocal as I've been I was actually thanked for being "calm and polite." There have been some pretty brutal posts in the comments. IELLO likely couldn't have placated them once it reached frenzy pitch, but I do think that cleaning house until they got rid of the noisiest folks was cowardly. All that could have been avoided by skipping the lawyer reviewed bullshit and getting into the trenches with us to talk. Some honest discussion about all the shit would have gone a long way.
The latest update was like light beer, lots of foam but little substance. On the other hand it did address some of the swirling concerns and the backers have largely gone dark for the time being. I can imagine it rising up quickly if more updates don't swiftly follow this one.
Maybe it's just my morbid sense of curiosity, but I've chosen to stay because I really want to see what (if anything) they actually produce at this point. I'm not in for the huge dollars that some other folks were. My pledge was the Villains Strike Back at $160 (plus $30 shipping) with no extra add-ons. I would very likely have opted out a long time ago if it were for more than that. It's still a train wreck, but it's one I just can't seem to look away from just yet!
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"We have a plan to address the resin issue, just as we addressed the scale issue. We haven’t been able to discuss any of our plans because of the anger and stress that has been happening in the comments section of this campaign."
Unless I am mistaken, thats why we were mad because they did not address the resin issue other than doing away with it.
I am glad I am done with Iello. If i see that name on something, I will always move along.
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I saw the update over there and they are busy patting Iello on the back for their "integrity".
If Iello really intended to do as they say, they would not pass off that soft comic books style crap. I cost them a sale in my FLGS, and directed the guy to buy deadzone. I talked to the owner about getting Pulp City and Supersystem in the store.
I hate Iello and hope they go out of business soon.
I used my refund to buy some pulp City models, and Cryx from Warmachine.
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I have a lot of the pulp city range and they are indeed fantastic models. I like them so much that I went for their everything pledge awhile back. Having doubles of their figures won't hurt my feelings at all. :)
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I have a lot of the pulp city range and they are indeed fantastic models. I like them so much that I went for their everything pledge awhile back. Having doubles of their figures won't hurt my feelings at all. :)
That deal was a good bargain if you could pop the $600....sadly I couldn't....that was a rare and good steal even if you end up with duplicates.
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I had looked at the comments today to see how the people liked their game. Because before I got my refund I was being told Iello will make it right and us complainers were wrong for complaining... guess what, still no game and very little input from Iello.
So glad I got a refund. Those backers may get their game, I doubt they get their "extras" or the "good Figures"
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I had looked at the comments today to see how the people liked their game. Because before I got my refund I was being told Iello will make it right and us complainers were wrong for complaining... guess what, still no game and very little input from Iello.
So glad I got a refund. Those backers may get their game, I doubt they get their "extras" or the "good Figures"
Some of them may be drawing their Social Security first before the game arrives..... lol
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So glad I got out of that. I check in every now and then to see what's going on. People are getting grumpy again. I jumped on Sentinel Tactics after I left Guardian Chronicles and that game is shipping early. We should have that around GenCon and Guardian is still waiting.
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Yeah it's f-ing ridiculous is what it is. The last few communications have been weak, and with the spelling mistakes and other bad grammar I'm thinking the rule book will be about as good. At some point, I may even have a copy of it to look at and see if my suspicions are correct. Until then, whatever. The project has been so badly mismanaged I'm surprised anyone is still on there. Hell, I don't even know why I'm still on there. I have no good excuse for having stayed.
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Yeah it's f-ing ridiculous is what it is. The last few communications have been weak, and with the spelling mistakes and other bad grammar I'm thinking the rule book will be about as good. At some point, I may even have a copy of it to look at and see if my suspicions are correct. Until then, whatever. The project has been so badly mismanaged I'm surprised anyone is still on there. Hell, I don't even know why I'm still on there. I have no good excuse for having stayed.
You love the punishment....just admit it your a sadist gamer! :o
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Probably true.
From what I've heard, the game was nowhere to be seen at GenCon last week. They were showing off Zombie '15, King of New York and some other stuff. Calls to mind one of those movies that doesn't screen for critics before release. Want to avoid all that bad press so that you actually make a little money off some suckers before word gets out.
Apparently the cargo container en-route. That little bit of info was shared in a comment however...not an actual update. I continue to shake my head in disbelief over the continual train-wreck this thing is.