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Other Stuff => Workbench => It's Alive! => Topic started by: Mister Rab on July 11, 2013, 08:15:49 PM

Title: alea iacta est (Update - 14/05/2015) - retiarius
Post by: Mister Rab on July 11, 2013, 08:15:49 PM
Fired up by playtesting Furt's Blood on the Sands and the eye-candy on  Carmen's Painty Fun Time blog (http://carmensminiaturepainting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/54mm-gladiators-thraex.html), I've ordered some 54mm gladiators and am now workin out the best way to make an arena for them. There are loads of examples of biscuit tin arenas but I fear the sides may be too short for 54mm figures and there would be too little playing space.

I spotted these images for a "Marx" brand arena and wondered if anyone knows what sort of size the pieces are, whether they would take paint well, any deal-breaking historical stupidity in the pieces (I just need "looks right" but the pictures are too small for me to make out the details).

(http://www.plasticsoldiers.co.uk/photos/marx/arena.jpg)

Any knowledge out there in the LAF hive-mind?

Thanks.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: NickNascati on July 11, 2013, 09:10:37 PM
First of all, they will cost you a good penny to buy.  They are in scale with 54mm, being made in the 50s for the "Ben Hur" playset.  I think there is even a "Royal Box" in the set.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 11, 2013, 09:29:09 PM
Thanks, Nick, although it seems I've been lucky with my find - £12 for eight stands, enough to make a complete circle, which seems pretty decent to me. I also got an incredibly quick reply from the vendor who said:

Quote
The diameter is 23inches on the outside, 15.25inches on the inside, and it is 3.25inches at the highest point.

If you buy the 2 arena stands this will add 5inches into the length of it on each side.

These are the "arena stands":

(http://plasticsoldiers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/stand1.jpg)

which would allow me to make an oval arena, but they're an extra £8 each. Now to work out if that's big enough for hexes about 40-45mm across...  ???
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: LeadAsbestos on July 11, 2013, 09:49:35 PM
Great idea! Sometimes I wish I had gone 54mm too, but it is too late to turn back now! I'll be watching this in envy!
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Elbows on July 11, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
Very cool...indeed...almost bought be a playmobil arena last night on a whim... lol
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: fastolfrus on July 11, 2013, 10:29:10 PM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 11, 2013, 09:29:09 PM
Thanks, Nick, although it seems I've been lucky with my find - £12 for eight stands, enough to make a complete circle, which seems pretty decent to me. I also got an incredibly quick reply from the vendor who said:

These are the "arena stands":

(http://plasticsoldiers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/stand1.jpg)

which would allow me to make an oval arena, but they're an extra £8 each. Now to work out if that's big enough for hexes about 40-45mm across...  ???

Don't suppose he's got another set has he?
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Furt on July 11, 2013, 10:29:43 PM
Through my experiences playing gladiator games Rabs, I think you really must come to a compromise between playability and what is aesthetically pleasing. Although an enclosed circular or oval arena looks grand, when it comes to playing on it, the enclosed arena can be a bit of a pain. Unless you can lower the arena playing surface below a normal table height, moving the gladiators becomes quite problematic and tiresome, over an arena wall. It doesn't sound like much effort, but do it twenty times over and it wears on you. I would recommend you use an open arena, where the arena forms the rear and side walls of the playing area, like a backdrop, leaving the front part open for ease of play. Pretty much exactly like the original image of the arena seating you provided in the first image. The plus side is you only need half the seating too.  :)

BTW I think the "Marx" seating looks really nice, especially when painted up. I'd tell the young lass to stop dangling her legs over the edge like that though, what with lions and all.  ;)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: LeadAsbestos on July 12, 2013, 01:11:07 AM
Quote from: Elbows on July 11, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
Very cool...indeed...almost bought be a playmobil arena last night on a whim... lol

Let me know if you want one. I've got the half and the full, looking for new homes!
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Elbows on July 12, 2013, 04:01:41 AM
I didn't see you type that...I didn't see you type that (you're probably not int he US so no worries, won't pay for that!)  lol
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: H.M.Stanley on July 12, 2013, 07:55:15 AM
Weren't a lot of the ampitheatres half-moon shaped? Perhaps it was to allow the Gods to play without straining their backs  ;)

Nice looking stands/models there chap
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on July 12, 2013, 11:51:25 AM
Quote from: H.M.Stanley on July 12, 2013, 07:55:15 AM
Weren't a lot of the ampitheatres half-moon shaped?

These were theatres or odeons. The "less cultivated" Romans just shoved them together to form an amphitheatre. ;)

That Marx arena is actually a nice piece of work. As are 54mm figures. Personally, don't see a use for spectators – unless for visual effect when you can field masses of them – but that's just me. Anyway, I concur with Furt, go for ease of play and leave one side open.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 12, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
Thanks everyone - half a marx arena it is, then  :D

btw, my source for them is http://plasticsoldiers.co.uk/index.php/period/romans/ (http://plasticsoldiers.co.uk/index.php/period/romans/) who seem to be selling off their stock. Also, I notice from pictures of the old Ben Hur set that NickNascati correctly identifies these pieces as having been sold in previously that the blue arena stands aren't as deep as the red banked corners so would look a bit odd interspersed. I think I'll go for just the red bits and maybe build my own straight section to fit more exactly.

(http://plasticsoldiers.co.uk/photos/marx/100_0223.JPG)

edit - blooming IMG tags  ::)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Furt on July 12, 2013, 01:41:00 PM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 12, 2013, 01:26:26 PM
I think I'll go for just the red bits and maybe build my own straight section to fit more exactly.

A nice editor's box would fit nicely between and alleviate the need to match the exact shape as the plastic arena parts. It looks like a winner!  :)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 12, 2013, 02:11:48 PM
That was my plan, Furt! Cheers  :D
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Kugelfang on July 12, 2013, 03:01:15 PM
Having moved to 54mm stuff a few years ago I've become a big fan of using artists gesso as a primer. Though be aware, it can act differently depending upon the plastic. In 90% of the figures I've painted, it's fine. But occasionally, the stuff will just roll right off a figure--sort as if the plastic contains a lot of oil. I'm also a fan of using Aleene's Tacky glue as a primer and a finishing coat. It dries crystal clear but will give a gloss finish. But it's the most durable finish I've found for soft plastics and remains pliable for years which prevents chipping--and I like the glossy, toy soldier effect. However, using Aleene's as a primer is an art form. The stuff is water soluble and painting acrylic over it can cause it to swell and shrink creating cracks in your first coat of acrylic paint. Plus, I don't recommend using washes when using this method. Like I said, it's an art.

Welcome to the wacky world of big soft plastic figures!

--jeff
http://petiteguerre.blogspot.com

 
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 12, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
Thanks Jeff, although it's just the arena I'm going for in plastic - the figures will be good old not-lead-any-more-but-near-enough metal  :D
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 16, 2013, 07:58:56 PM
My arena pieces arrived today - several snaps on the blog (http://geeklydigest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/plastic-pieces-of-potential.html), and here's one as a teaser:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HkkSCR1uu3s/UeWRLbpYVyI/AAAAAAAABAQ/hhTtHuELdoc/s1600/IMG_6061.JPG)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on July 16, 2013, 08:02:57 PM
Not bad, doesn't look that large compared to the peasant mini.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sCF-binydM4/UeWVORR6CnI/AAAAAAAABBY/hDtA3kgG5O8/s640/IMG_6060.JPG)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 16, 2013, 09:29:21 PM
No it doesn't, does it, Prof? I was expecting it to be about 15 - 20mm taller. My 54mm gladiators are en route and I'm sure I'll add another scale picture when they arrive  :)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Furt on July 16, 2013, 09:48:40 PM
I think this is going to work really well mate.

The more I look at that peasant figure the more I'm convinced it will work quite well for 28mm too!  :o

That's a great find Rabs.

Regarding joining the sides together - I think you could drill through both pieces and use a few small bolts and large washers to bring them together.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Elbows on July 23, 2013, 02:35:16 AM
How about rare earth magnets simply glued inside the opposing walls?  Removable but extremely sturdy.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 23, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
Not a bad idea - especially as I have already got some  lol

Wife and children are away on Wednesday evening, so I shall take over the dining room table to have enough space to work easily and see if I can get to the undercoat stage. I also have a cunning plan to make the arena floor that I am shamelessly copying from Bibulus the Flos  ;)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Furt on July 23, 2013, 10:50:56 AM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 23, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
I also have a cunning plan to make the arena floor that I am shamelessly copying from Bibulus the Flos  ;)

I wonder is James ready to get into the business of hex grid arenas?  ;)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: Mister Rab on July 23, 2013, 12:16:59 PM
Well, step 1 is complete - the arena floor has been lasered, but it only just fit into the machine! I'll get some pictures up here and/or on my blog, probably Wednesday evening.
Title: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Mister Rab on July 25, 2013, 10:40:05 PM
I got a bit more done today, getting from this:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uHmZc8Wbk6I/UfGXCcRG-9I/AAAAAAAABCE/LVnDPigo1cs/s1600/arena+01.jpg)

to this:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fEtWo5riAes/UfGXGW8O5WI/AAAAAAAABCo/MZbNqwoTV2U/s1600/arena+07.jpg)

More steps and whatnot on the inevitable blog entry (http://geeklydigest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/gladiator-arena-54mm-wip-1.html)  ::)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Elbows on July 25, 2013, 11:16:06 PM
That looks awesome, and your gladiators are breathtakingly well done...putting quite the damper on my recent painted gladiators!   lol

So, I didn't gather - are you doing a full enclosed arena, just in a lozenge shape, or are you leaving it half open for gaming? (or are you in fact making two or more arenas using your stuff?)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: doctor_ocks on July 26, 2013, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 25, 2013, 10:40:05 PM
I got a bit more done today, getting from this:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uHmZc8Wbk6I/UfGXCcRG-9I/AAAAAAAABCE/LVnDPigo1cs/s1600/arena+01.jpg)

to this:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fEtWo5riAes/UfGXGW8O5WI/AAAAAAAABCo/MZbNqwoTV2U/s1600/arena+07.jpg)

More steps and whatnot on the inevitable blog entry (http://geeklydigest.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/gladiator-arena-54mm-wip-1.html)  ::)

Fantastic. Looking forward to this being done.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - help needed
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 26, 2013, 06:40:38 AM
Great stuff  8)

I would've thought it would be more suitable for 28s than 54s

Quote from: Furt on July 23, 2013, 10:50:56 AM
I wonder is James ready to get into the business of hex grid arenas?  ;)

Certainly am  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Mister Rab on July 26, 2013, 07:56:28 AM
Thank you chaps, I am fairly happy with how it's coming along.

elbows - those aren't my gladiators  lol No, they're my inspiration picture because I've bought the same figures. Currently being scraped and pinned ready for priming.

I'm going to leave the arena half open for gaming, ending up with a sort of super-powered boardgame feel to the playing area, I guess. If I manage not to screw up adding and removing gates/entrances, I'll have four sections left over, so check the Bazaar in a couple of months time  ;)

doctor_ocks - Thanks, me too!

jimbibbly - Thanks, it was your set the other day that made me think of putting a gap between hexes. I agree about the size, despite being made specifically to go with a plastic 54mm toy set, the arena sections are a bit short. I might put them on a step to get it more in scale but, as they'll basically be set-dressing and I don't want to distract from the action in the middle, I haven't decided if that's necessary for my purposes.

Out of interest, what's the bed size on your laser cutter? I wanted to make it one or two rows of hexes wider but was limited to a cutting area of 950mm by 450mm  :?
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 26, 2013, 08:29:34 AM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 26, 2013, 07:56:28 AM
Out of interest, what's the bed size on your laser cutter? I wanted to make it one or two rows of hexes wider but was limited to a cutting area of 950mm by 450mm  :?

720 x 420 I'm afraid

cheers

James
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Mister Rab on July 26, 2013, 09:14:23 AM
Oh! I assumed yours would be the size of a warehouse given your prodigious output! I obviously need to think more carefully about how to use it...

It really is not the size but how you use it, eh?  ;) lol lol
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Furt on July 26, 2013, 09:26:42 AM
That's looking great Mister Rab. A perfect mix of playability and looks.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 26, 2013, 09:30:02 AM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 26, 2013, 09:14:23 AM
Oh! I assumed yours would be the size of a warehouse given your prodigious output! I obviously need to think more carefully about how to use it...

It really is not the size but how you use it, eh?  ;) lol lol

Certainly is  lol

Joining stuff together isn't a problem, we've made some huge models at work all pieced together from smaller parts.

cheers

James
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Elbows on July 26, 2013, 11:45:26 AM
Had you considered perhaps doing the hexed playing area as a larger single piece...cut to "slot" into the grand stand area?  Using two pieces you could get a much larger playing area, and it would be easier for storage...not needing to whip out the ludus portion, or breaking it down into pieces for travel?

Pardon my 2 second drawing...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Elbaus/GLADIATORexample_zps8c65167d.png)

^Something along these lines?  With a small slot or two cut into both pieces to make sure they properly align.  You can expand the gaming area, or use each piece separately?  Just a thought.  In fact...if you did this, you could maybe create various hex layouts for different scales?  (I don't know if you have gaming buddies with different scale gladiators?)  Maybe a non-hexed version if you start using other non-hex based rules?  Basically the playing area would be modular.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Mister Rab on July 27, 2013, 11:03:54 PM
Thanks, Furt, glad you approve as this is all your fault anyway  ;D  lol

Hmm, some good thinking there, chaps re:modularity. A little late for this ludus, though...  ::) lol

I'm hoping the blood-sacrifice while trimming the arena stands (clumsiness with a stanley knife  ::)) will be a sufficient propitiatory offering to the lares that the rest of the build will be successful!
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2013, 11:10:37 PM
So you had...Blood on the Sands*?  ;)

*Trademark: Super Furt, not to be used without permission or obnoxious royalty fee payments made in advance.
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Furt on July 27, 2013, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: Mister Rab on July 27, 2013, 11:03:54 PM
I'm hoping the blood-sacrifice while trimming the arena stands (clumsiness with a stanley knife  ::)) will be a sufficient propitiatory offering to the lares that the rest of the build will be successful!

I'm sure the spilling of your REAL blood will be more than satisfactory.  :o

Quote from: Elbows on July 27, 2013, 11:10:37 PM
So you had...Blood on the Sands*?  ;)

*Trademark: Super Furt, not to be used without permission or obnoxious royalty fee payments made in advance.

Elbows, my lawyers are on the case as we speak.  ;)
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2013, 11:50:14 PM
ACCOUNT SUSPENDED DUE TO PENDING LEGAL ACTION
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Mister Rab on July 28, 2013, 07:08:18 AM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: "marx" plastic arena - ludus under construction
Post by: Slayer on July 28, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
very nice start, going to look great when you're done

Comments above made me  lol lol lol
Title: alea iacta est
Post by: Mister Rab on January 19, 2015, 01:39:18 PM
Time to clear out those cobwebs! Literally as well as metaphorically in this case, as a spider had decided the part-built stadium was just for him  :?

So, as part of the "It's Alive" scheme, I've chosen this project to get to a playable state. The official aims I've set are:

I've made a start with aim number two, prepping and basing a retiarius, a secutor, a murmillo and a thraex. Four classic gladiators with three definite combinations (mur. vs ret., sec. vs ret., mur. vs thr.) and two probable combinations (sec. vs thr. and mur. vs sec.) for historical gaming.

See! Progress!

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Rh5WeSR87qg/VL0DnGAVNJI/AAAAAAAACag/D4vG4nKOFaM/s1600/2015-01-19%2B07.54.48.jpg)

There is still a bit of smoothing to do on the loincloths, perhaps the pressure when casting was a little low? Anyway, should only take a few ticks, and then PRIMING!  8)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BIZilg8kzzw/VL0DnB3koQI/AAAAAAAACac/jKi1WpbpTTk/s1600/2015-01-19%2B07.56.28.jpg)
Title: alea iacta est (Update - 08/02/2015) - thraex
Post by: Mister Rab on February 08, 2015, 10:52:20 PM
First painted model of the year, first painted 54mm figure, first figure for this project - a thracian (or thraex) ready to strut his stuff on the arena sand.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xp4prPZauoY/VNfmpGFv5EI/AAAAAAAACcQ/PdGw1KmPzTs/s1600/2015-02-08%2B22.10.53.jpg)

There are a couple more views, with and without flash, on the blogaroo.
Title: alea iacta est (Update - 11/02/2015) - murmillo
Post by: Mister Rab on February 11, 2015, 10:44:47 PM
This time a murmillo. The characteristic gladiator (apart from the retiarius with his net and trident who is next in the paint queue) in my eyes, the murmillo carried the stabbing gladius and large scutum of the legionary. He also was associated with the sea, his flamboyant helmet being decorated with dolphins or various real or mythical sea creatures or personages. This aquatic association was a key part of the appeal of his common pairing against the retiarius; the sea versus the fisherman. They also fought against the thraex and so I have my first matched pair.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3N9pjTTFvz0/VNvZsUnyfJI/AAAAAAAACco/RLmkNI8JIEs/s1600/2015-02-11%2B21.58.20.jpg)

More pictures on t'blog.
Title: Re: alea iacta est (Update - 11/02/2015) - murmillo
Post by: Hawkeye on February 12, 2015, 09:19:39 PM
Lovely, both of those. The green on the Thraex is gorgeous, and works wonderfully with the off-white strapping and the basing. Ditto for the red on the Murmillo. If I ever do a gladiator project, it will be in 54mm, mostly because of the work you're doing here.

And remember, SPQR! Sono Pazzi Questi Romani!
Title: Re: alea iacta est (Update - 11/02/2015) - murmillo
Post by: Mister Rab on February 13, 2015, 08:10:56 PM
Thanks, Hawkeye, what a nice comment to receive!

I am pretty pleased with them, although I think the red shield needs a little more... pizzazz. DeanM suggested yellow lightning bolts to mimic the legionaries' shields and I reckon he's onto something.

These Romans are crazy indeed! (Good old Asterix)
Title: Re: alea iacta est (Update - 11/02/2015) - murmillo
Post by: Hawkeye on February 13, 2015, 10:53:10 PM
Good point about the shield. It's a lovely deep red, which I like, and it's picked up by the crest on the helmet and by the belt, which is some really nice detailing. Great stuff. 54mm makes sense - at least it would for me - as it would be an entirely standalone project, and it's great to see what can be done with 54mm gladiators, which is what's great about this project. I'm used to 28mm, of course, but the 54mm work you're doing here is great, which is fantastic incentive for anyone thinking of taking the 54mm plunge. Looking forward to more.
Title: Re: alea iacta est (Update - 14/05/2015) - retiarius
Post by: Mister Rab on May 14, 2015, 07:24:09 PM
Another one (finally) - this time the iconic retiarius. These lightly armoured gladiators didn't even get a helmet but did have that unique weapon combination of a net and trident. With equipment like that, it's not surprising that they were considered to be the fisherman striving against the sea as represented by the murmillo. Attacking from beyond sword-stab distance, and relying on skill and cunning to disarm or entrap their opponent in the net before finishing them off, set them apart from other gladiators and they seem to have been considered at a slight unfair advantage or even effeminate in their behaviour!

As far as this project is concerned, though, I now have three gladiators from which I can from two historical pairings (murmillo vs thraex, and murmillo vs retiarius), leaving me one more to do from my initial pledge (a secutor) who fought against the retiarius and probably the other two as well to take me up to five pairings. His arm needs redrilling and filling to get the forearm to attach properly which has been the cause of the delay.

Enough waffle, here he is:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CsN3wR4kXUM/VVTm46OSI4I/AAAAAAAACxk/NUmV4zYCj1g/s1600/retiarius.jpg)