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Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: H.M.Stanley on August 16, 2013, 04:42:46 PM
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Could someone post a link to the BA/SCW lists please. I couldn't find it for the life of me. Nice Blog though.
I've used the Iron Ivan rules for SCW and, for me, they play extremely well, due mostly to limited numbers of vehicles which is where the rules generally break down (pardon the pun).
I've also played vanilla BA for SCW and thought they played quite well, using Veteran/Legion, Regular/Asaltos & Brigaders and Inexperienced/Militia
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Thanks for that :)
I pulled the lists (which were on my other blog in any case ::) ) as I wasn't happy with them and I also made an error or two. I've put them back up for now, but I consider them still a 'work in progress'.
Overview (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-adapting-bolt-action.html)
Rule Mods (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-scw-bolt-action-part-2.html)
Republican List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/republican-army-list-july-to-september.html)
Nationalist List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/nationalist-army-list-july-to-september.html)
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Good read, a lot of great ideas to take onboard, and mix in with some of the additional rules I already have noted down myself.
I am putting on a game next Friday (23rd) at the club I attend, using Bolt Action with adaptations. I will post the troop lists, plus extra rules bits on my blog, with an AAR to follow. Looking to play Militia against the Tercio and Moros, as they are the most complete forces I have to hand at the moment.
Have also ordered the new Command and Control rules, not sure how they are going to play out though, as the intricacies of WW2 platoon actions are somewhat different to the tactics used in the SCW lol
As a matter of interest, has anyone tried out the Osprey "A World Aflame" ruleset
and for a completely offf the wall game http://mr-home.staff.shef.ac.uk/rules/mex36.html
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Thanks for that :)
I pulled the lists (which were on my other blog in any case ::) ) as I wasn't happy with them and I also made an error or two. I've put them back up for now, but I consider them still a 'work in progress'.
Overview (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-adapting-bolt-action.html)
Rule Mods (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-scw-bolt-action-part-2.html)
Republican List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/republican-army-list-july-to-september.html)
Nationalist List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/nationalist-army-list-july-to-september.html)
Top banana! And thank you for sharing those. I'm going to have a good old read when i get a moment
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Don't get too excited, they only really cover July to September-ish 1936. :)
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Don't get too excited, they only really cover July to September-ish 1936. :)
That's fine chap - i have Militia, Brigaders*, Assaltos, Guardia Civil and La Legion troops so should be able to cobble something together for that period :)
I need to drop a project somewhere and expand into the Falange, Requetes ...
On a more pressing note, where can i get a FT-17 from in 28mm? No plastic kits if possible.
Thanks,
James
* I'd use the Brigaders as Communists (slightly better, Green?, than Militia)
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* I'd use the Brigaders as Communists (slightly better, Green?, than Militia)
I can only really comment on the Madrid - Seville region, but yes, the 'Communist' Compañías de Acero, which were churned out by the training corps known as the 5th Regiment, were better disciplined and had a military structure lacking in other formations. In Bolt Action the 'Green' rule seems just the ticket.
They were formed from volunteers from all parties and the first intake of 300 was selected from people who were fit, mostly aged 20-30, already had some military experience (they had served as conscripts etc), or otherwise knew their way around a gun. They received a week of intensive training, much of which was 'political' orientation, but involved some basic ground work with grenades, machine guns and tactics. Then it was off to the war...
As opposed to the "here's your rifle, the bolt works like this, you load it like this, you aim it like this and pull here, off you go" style used elsewhere in those first few weeks, that single week's worth of training apparently made quite a difference.
After the initial 'panic period', the training was extended and they started to form battalions instead of independent companies from late August.
Their uniform initially (before changing to khaki at a later date) was the ubiquitous 'blue mono' (in several varieties of style), with army-issue cartridge pouches and a blanket roll. A 'gorillo' cap in blue, sometimes with but most often without, red trim and tassle, finished off the ensemble.
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Hi Stanley,
Further to Arlequin's description, in my home grown SCW Bolt Action lists I rate the 5th regiment as below. I have given them a Highly Motivated rating as I have rated my troops in comparison to other SCW troops ( not WW2 troops), so I judge the commitment of the 5th regiment elements greater than standard Green troops.
The Highly Motivated rating I treat the same as the Stubborn rule in BA. My point system is slightly different than Bolt Action as well but the structure is the same. Random Air Support is a house rules- if you roll two 1s on a command test the Republican player get an immediate free airstike....here's hoping he's not a Rookie and ends up brassing your own troops up!!!
Happy Wanderer
COMMUNIST 5TH REGIMENT MILITIA INFANTRY SQUAD
PCE Communist 5th Regiment militias
Cost: Inexp Infantry 90pts or Reg Infantry 120pts
Composition: 1 NCO and 8 men
Weapons: Rifles
Options:
• Add up to 4 additional soldiers for +9pts (Inexp) or +12pts if (Regular) Steel Battalions
• NCO can have a SMG instead of rifle for +3pts
• May be Steel Battalion Shock Company taken as Shock Troops for +2pt per man If Steel Battalion Shock Company up to three men may be armed with SMG instead of rifle for +3pts each
• one soldier may have a Machine Rifle for +5pts, or an LMG for +20pts whereby another soldier becomes the loader; or If Steel Battalion Shock Company, for every two squads, one soldier may have a Hotchkiss M22 as a Machine Rifle for +5pts, or as an LMG for +20pts whereby another soldier becomes the loader
• An entire squad may be taken as Dinametiros for +2pts per figure
• May be given 1 Truck per squad at the normal cost of the vehicle
Special Rules:
• Highly Motivated
• Random Air Support
• Green (unless Regular)
• Shock Troops (if taken)
• Dinametiros (if taken)
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Thanks chap
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Just fooling with the lists. I'd have to add in some Brigaders to make up those large Militia units as i only have about 30 Militia
Comes to about 600pts each give or take a couple. I could whack that up to 1000pts when i paint up the Guardia Civil & add Communists
Militia (Inexperienced) with Asalto (Regular)
• Militia:
• Delegado – Jefe de Seccion*
• Teniente (Regular)
• Escuadra – NCO + 14 men*[forms part of this unit]
• Escuadra – NCO + 14 men
• Escuadra – NCO + 14 men incl LMG (and loader)
• Asalto:
• Sargento**
• NCO and 7 Riflemen**[forms part of this unit]
• NCO and 7 Riflemen
• “Bilbao” Armoured Car
La Legion (Veterans)
• Teniente and 2 riflemen
• Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
• Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
• Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
• MMG – NCO plus 2 men (and 2 x additional Rifleman)
• MMG – NCO plus 2 men (and 2 x additional Rifleman)
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Stanley, we have found that about 750 pts in the SCW is equivalent to a 1000pts in WW2. The low cost and infantry heavy nature of the SCW means alot more foot sloggers and less 'tricky bits'.
Your Militia force has 10 dice in the bag and your legion 6. That will put the legion at a bit of a disadvantage due to their smaller dice. A point to consider.
Anther way to work around this might be to say that your Legion have as many dice in the bag as your militia does...just simply ignore the remaining Legion dice pulls once they's al activated. That way they are not at a command and control disadvantage....that might be worth a try. Dice numbers in the bag are important in BA.
Your force looks large enough to me for a good size clash.
Cheers
Happy W
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I don't know how well it would work, but you could go with the dice as they are, but ignore draws for the militia once all the Legion dice have been drawn (or just simply end the turn). That sort of handles the militias dodgy C&C and puts some pressure on the player to do what he can while he can.
I'm not sure whether I literally just thought that up, or have just related someone else's idea I've read somewhere... :?
You could gain another dice for the Legion by going for squads of 6 figures... although that might make them a tad fragile maybe. Having said that 'Veteran' status does make them somewhat powerful, so might balance out.
It is true what HW says too, you get a lot for your points in the main.
:)
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Thanks chaps
I've played a fair amount of BA (the rules are ok - but that's another conversation) and have tried out, more or less, those lists before using vanilla BA rules
7 dice v 6 [Delegado and Sargento must join/are part of a specific unit - not the Teniente as i read it] does give the Republicans a slight advantage but i believe that the Militia, Veteran/Up and at Em rules help balance that out. I might thin out the Legion and get another unit (as you say, they'd be fragile).
I quite like the idea that the Militia/Asaltos stop drawing dice once all the Legion dice have been drawn. Might have to try that at some point although i don't think its needed for that game.
I agree with you that you get more bang for your buck with SCW/BA, or should that be less? Either way, i like it :D
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The way I saw the Sargento and Delegados working was that, they float like any other officer, but their effects are confined to the squads they personally command, while officers effect all the units within their 'platoon'. An Asalto Sargento is almost certainly going to be ignored by militia and vice versa with regards to a Delegado. A delegado might even be ignored by militia of another squad.
The dice idea should be confined to the militia, the Asaltos are pretty much on a par with the regular army (which is perhaps understating things even).
Unit size is an issue certainly, the large units of militia, in relation to the smaller regular 'squads' of the military, have much more staying power under the rules, when the reality was somewhat different (for the first couple of months anyway). I haven't really looked for a solution for this so far, but there is bound to be one...
:)
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Hi. My take - the Delegado commands all Militia units (unless you're mixing FAI/CNT, Communists, POUM etc which is a whole other ball game :D) but its a command and control thing. If he's "fixed" to a specific unit its more difficult to give orders elsewhere [ok, let's say he can't]
By making him a separate unit, you throw another die into the pot which makes the Militia better unless you start to alter game mechanics in the way you both suggest (re numbers of order dice)
I don't see an Asalto Sargento having difficulty ordering one or more units of Asalto TBH. Has any trooper ever tried ignoring a Sargeant, anywhere? lol But again, i'd fix him to a unit, rather than let him roam, and lose the extra die - allow other Asalto units to use his +1 Leadership though if in range.
Those big units of Militia may well be a problem against even small Veteran units. Thoughts on only allowing ,say, only 50% of unit to shoot?
Cheers,
James
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Okay, I oversimplified that post a bit...
While anyone with stripes or stars can order anyone who hasn't got them about, imagine the confusion and breakdown of C&C if they all potentially did that at the same time in battle. While telling anyone to 'pick that cigarette end' up in barracks is fine, in combat there are clearly defined responsibilities. When a specific leader goes down, they generally elevate someone from within his command to lead it, rather than placing them under an existing leader's command.
Militia are a different ball game, as you say. Your delegado is appointed (or elected) with no more authority or responsibility than those regarding the men in his group (which will be between 10 and 20 men, with no sub-units). Attempting to order about the men of another group is likely to be met with polite refusal, or remarks about his mother's accomplishments as a 'sole trader'. He has a single superior, the Jefe in charge of the Centuria (effectively the 'on table' overall commander).
So our guy is pretty much fixed with his rather large unit. I'm sure he could have told 'Pepe' to take four or five guys to do something important, but that's an informal division and not quite like our Sargento above, ordering Cabo Castro to take his squad to do something similar.
The sergeant can leave the rest of his command under their own Cabos, to check up on Castro, but our Delegado can't really do the same with any degree of certainty that his men will not have decided a new strategy for themselves and have gone somewhere else. He might be fortunate in having someone to put in charge while he's away, but that isn't a given.
In Bolt Action you don't get any of this and if you don't create a house rule covering 'areas of responsibility' or 'ownership' of a defined group of units, any 'officer' type can just float around fixing morale difficulties with a wave of his magic wand.
Obviously having detached leaders gives more dice in the pot, which might be an advantage 'regulars' enjoy over militia, with their 'fixed' leaders in this sense. Essentially therefore, while you can assume that each militia squad has a leader anyway, the buying of a delegado is like paying for a 'more competent' leader if you like. Going on that route, your militia force is down to 8 dice, compared to 6 for the Legion, or 7 if you swap out some riflemen for a sergeant to assist the Teniente and take charge of a group of units.
As for the big units... I was thinking along the lines of either doubling the 'pins' they receive (this war business being a whole new experience for them) or forcing them to take tests as separate informal groups. Either way it over-complicates my initial objective of not adding copious special rules to a fast-play rule set. It's only an issue for the first couple of months, after which somewhat smaller squads seem to be the norm for them.
:)
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That's fine chap - i have Militia, Brigaders*, Assaltos, Guardia Civil and La Legion troops so should be able to cobble something together for that period :)
I need to drop a project somewhere and expand into the Falange, Requetes ...
On a more pressing note, where can i get a FT-17 from in 28mm? No plastic kits if possible.
Thanks,
James
* I'd use the Brigaders as Communists (slightly better, Green?, than Militia)
Force of Arms has a resin FT 17 which is quite good, and Brigade Games makes a real nice metal one. Slightly expensive though.
http://www.brigadegames.com/FT-17_p_1699.html (http://www.brigadegames.com/FT-17_p_1699.html)
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Force of Arms has a resin FT 17 which is quite good, and Brigade Games makes a real nice metal one. Slightly expensive though.
http://www.brigadegames.com/FT-17_p_1699.html (http://www.brigadegames.com/FT-17_p_1699.html)
Hi Willie.
Force of Arms has stopped trading, the Wargames Command Post is out of stock and i'm the wrong side of the pond for Brigade Games (unless someone knows a UK stockist)
I want that tank!! [bawls]
Cheers
James
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Hi Willie.
Force of Arms has stopped trading, the Wargames Command Post is out of stock and i'm the wrong side of the pond for Brigade Games (unless someone knows a UK stockist)
I want that tank!! [bawls]
Cheers
James
Actually I didn't know John had stopped trading. Sad news indeed.( I just read tha announcement on TMP) Wheras I have most if not all of his SCW vehicles my Vietnam collection is far from complete.
Great Hall still sells the FOA Ft 17 but it's also on the wrong side of the big puddle.
http://www.greathallminis.com/SpanishCivilWar/scw_veh_foa.htm (http://www.greathallminis.com/SpanishCivilWar/scw_veh_foa.htm)
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I'm positive I've recently seen a new resin FT-17 for release, or pending release... can't find the post for the life of me though. It actually looked like a good model too. The same company is also producing a 'Liberty Tank' iirc, so that might jog someone's memory here.
North Star import some of Brigade Games's ranges, might be worth enquiring about obtaining one through them.
:)
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I'm positive I've recently seen a new resin FT-17 for release, or pending release... can't find the post for the life of me though. It actually looked like a good model too. The same company is also producing a 'Liberty Tank' iirc, so that might jog someone's memory here.
North Star import some of Brigade Games's ranges, might be worth enquiring about obtaining one through them.
:)
Thanks Jim
I'll bend Nick's ear :)
James
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A recent post on PMT states that John hopes to be back trading soon as his wife is well on the road to recovery, great news on both counts.
There will be new releases too!
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Thanks for that :)
I pulled the lists (which were on my other blog in any case ::) ) as I wasn't happy with them and I also made an error or two. I've put them back up for now, but I consider them still a 'work in progress'.
Overview (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-adapting-bolt-action.html)
Rule Mods (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/accion-de-cerrojo-scw-bolt-action-part-2.html)
Republican List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/republican-army-list-july-to-september.html)
Nationalist List (http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/nationalist-army-list-july-to-september.html)
Unfortunately the links are outdated 8(
Friends, can anyone save them and can share?
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Outdated doesn't cover it, I've had two laptops since 2013 and even the blog itself has gone to meet its maker. I don't recall even playing Bolt Action since then, Chain of Command killed what interest I had in BA. Unless someone did save them I'm sorry to say they're long gone.
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I do have a BA Armies of the Spanish Civil War Version 2.1 by RJH Scales... dunno if that’s the one you‘re after? If so send me a PM with your mailing adress and I‘ll send them to you.
Haven’t tried it myself, as I‘ve made the switch over to CoC shortly after downloading the document o_o
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Good call...
I've dug out a link to Ryan Scales's lists: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pufpy8h44xrj9ft/Bolt%20Action%20Armies%20of%20the%20Spanish%20Civil%20War%20v2.1.pdf
My only comment is that Spanish infantry sections were actually an NCO and 17 men, not 8 and divided into two squads of six and one of five (the LMG squad). Two squads per platoon. Cavalry platoons were three squads of 8 men, but dismounted as 6, with two horseholders.
Nevertheless that and a few other minor quibbles aside, I'm sure they will serve their purpose. :)
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Thanks for help friends 8)
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There is another version of Bolt Action for the Spanish Civil War. If you can read spanish, of course.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4gr7n63jfmvnl0/Suplemento%20GCE.pdf?dl=0
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¡Bueno! Gracias por compartir, está claro que fue mucho trabajo. :)
I wouldn't think translating the game-important parts should prove too difficult for most, although a MS or Google Drive word document, or something similar would allow for auto-translation of the whole text for los perezosos.
;)
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¡Bueno! Gracias por compartir, está claro que fue mucho trabajo. :)
I wouldn't think translating the game-important parts should prove too difficult for most, although a MS or Google Drive word document, or something similar would allow for auto-translation of the whole text for los perezosos.
;)
It's not mine. It's something that I found in this site http://foro.boltaction.es/index.php?topic=465.0 (http://foro.boltaction.es/index.php?topic=465.0)
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Then just "thanks for sharing"! :)