Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: warmacre on September 08, 2013, 08:47:49 PM
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Baker Company have started a new Kickstarter for a new range of 28mm miniatures for The Winter War between Finland and Soviet Russia of 1939-1940: click here (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1030835091/winter-war-wargaming-miniatures)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/891/028/943416261216c3a6c844a2d6edd102b3_large.jpg?1378358061)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/891/031/611f2f8c368375737810d36b6a3793a8_large.jpg?1378358105)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/891/032/606abbd90a480c228095012ba9a7f9db_large.jpg?1378358136)
The range includes Finnish Soldiers in snow camouflage and also early Red Army soldiers. Eventually the range will be available as blister packs of 4 miniatures for each type of soldier (running rifleman etc). However, for Kickstarter, each pledge level includes a fighting unit which includes Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs), sub machine guns (SMGs), light machine guns (LMGs) and riflemen as you will need them in most miniature wargames.
More details and stretch goals can all be seen here:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1030835091/winter-war-wargaming-miniatures (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1030835091/winter-war-wargaming-miniatures)
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Good luck with this KS. Great period to game an I look forward to the future.
Cheers,
Helen
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There is a serious shortage of Finns from this period. Bolt action used to do some, but warlord retired the moulds as they were worn out. Now there aren't many other companies doing winter war. I am interested, and will have to work out if I can buy a platoon or two. Cash is, as always, a bit short at the moment.
As a foot note, it's worth noting that warlord are bringing out their rules for the Finns in the new axis rule book for their bolt action game. The rules should be out soon...a happy coincidence?
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All very nice sculpts 8) 8) 8).
An interesting war to cover that I think I'm right in saying has only really been covered in 20mm?
BTW, I think this should be in the 'Commercial' section.
Darrell.
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Thanks for the positive comments! Sorry for putting this in the wrong place, my bad - can we move it?
Just a quick update - we are at 46% of our funding goal after 29 hours - good so far...
Thanks,
Gav
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Not my thing, but the models look great and I wish you the best of luck with it.
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Thanks for the positive comments! Sorry for putting this in the wrong place, my bad - can we move it?
Just a quick update - we are at 46% of our funding goal after 29 hours - good so far...
Thanks,
Gav
Gav your placement of the topic is fine.
Cheers,
Helen
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Gav your placement of the topic is fine.
Cheers,
Helen
My bad :).
Darrell.
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Interesting. Those look quite good whereas the recent Vietnam 'Anzacs' are some of the most awful looking miniatures I've seen in a long while, at least judging from the photos. They are also without doubt the most poorly researched range I've seen, wrong weapons, dodgy poses, uniforms etc.
Hopefully these are a significant improvement. The photos do look promising. Not quite sure why you would have T-26s and BA-6s as stretch goals, they are already well coverered by other manufacturers. Might be better to look at something someone else doesn't already do.
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As a Finn I am more than interested in this, thanks for the heads-up.
I am pretty sure that you guys are well aware of that Finnish Def. Forces (FDF) made available a huge photo resource online, covering the Finnish participation in WW2? Here's the link, just in case:
http://sa-kuva.fi/
And I'm more than happy to help out with more reference pics etc. Oh, and pls, make some model Cajander Finns as well.
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This is a great idea.
I would also query the need for vehicles. Maybe some Reindeer sleighs?
The only thing I would query would be the rifle stock against the shoulder pose of the two firing Finns. It looks a bit like they are held out in front or held against the Bicep but it might be the camera angle.
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This is a very exciting announcement, and I am in. Already I see the first stretch target has been reached.
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Looking good, have had to support a local company :D
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In the past I have been disappointed by the sculpts by this sculpter, particilally the no go zone stuff, but I have to say that I am impressed with the sculpts I see here. I am glad to see the kick starter doing so well.
As I previously pointed out that the bolt action book to cover the winter war will be out in November this year, just in time for this kick starter to finish.
However, I feel I should point out that warlord games will be bringing out their own range of Finns to support their book. I phoned them today to ask what was going on with thier Finns, and they confirmed they had some to come out. I think they are new sculpts rather than reworking of their old ones. I have no idea what they are bringing out, or if it will include support troops etc.
I am sure this news will be a disappointment for Baker company as they must have thought they had spotted a nice niche in the market, and now a giant company like warlord are muscling in. That said, baker company seem to be making a good job of building a complete range of figures, with all the support troops etc, and so might prove to have an advantage over warlord.
It seems waiting for winter war Finns is a bit like waiting for a bus: You wait for ages then two come along at once!
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I like to believe Rob that all companies can work together. It's a win win for gamers/collectors and Gav is taking this period to another level.
Warlord Games will no doubt release their range very soon and people can vote with their wallet.
I ask Lon at Brigade Games to look at the unreleased Winter War Finns that should complete another pack or so for the range.
Cheers,
Helen
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I've wanted to do Winter War for a while (and it is one of the only bits of WW2 that would look "right" in 28mm to me), but have been waiting for some decent figures to do it with - now they are on the way, and from a local company too!
Working on rules to use - I don't like Bolt Action and Arc of Fire - so current thoughts are Force on Force WW2 variant (as this really is an asymmetric war) or possibly Osprey's A World Aflame. Any other ideas?
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Wargaming the Winter War offers chances for both asymmetrical and symmetrical battles. In the south the war was fought in very WW1-like manner, in the trenches whereas more north the motto-tactics and small unit skirmishes were used.
Great to see that kickstarter is going forward with good pace, would be nice to see more pics of the wip minis and concepts.
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That's interesting!
But - i'd say - some link might be nice!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1030835091/winter-war-wargaming-miniatures
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/644770/photo-main.jpg)
And, to have an idea of the (good) prices:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/894/760/5d4f5e7cb7909b5b273785a713e7e185_large.jpg)
Personally, i won't take part in this, but still it's and interesting offer!
Cheers
Jack
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Working on rules to use - I don't like Bolt Action and Arc of Fire - so current thoughts are Force on Force WW2 variant (as this really is an asymmetric war) or possibly Osprey's A World Aflame. Any other ideas?
Have you tried 'Rules of Engagement'?
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Have you tried 'Rules of Engagement'?
Watched a couple of games and it didn't inspire me - but thanks for the suggestion!
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Without a moments hesitation Chain of Command as long as you want a realistic game.
I do not think the Finnish list is out yet but it is coming soon, certainly so by the time you get the figures. I went for the platoon of each deal specifically for use with Chain of Command.
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I have heard good things about Chain of Command. I am looking forward to trying it out.
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I'll give CoC a look - thanks for the replies!
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Thanks for the posting Jack!
There will be lots more WIP photos after the weekend as I'm on the case - The stretch goals are dropping twice daily at the moment so I have lots to catch up on!
Here's a graphic of the stretch goals to give you :
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/912/705/3875a02e689db9f19a0011b9209810f0_large.jpg?1378958025)
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Hi, Just wondering I have the folow question.
If I pledge for £60 do I receive all the reached pledge goals for free? Or have I missed something?
Cheers
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Hi, Just wondering I have the folow question.
If I pledge for £60 do I receive all the reached pledge goals for free? Or have I missed something?
Cheers
From what I understand yes. You get the pledge goals for the army you pick. So, if you pick Finns, you would not get the Soviet Armored Car and Tank for example, but you would get the ski unit, bikes, artillery, calvary, etc..
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Gav has now placed up additional KS goals and they are very impressive.
Well done Gav on what's going to look like a very successful project.
Cheers,
Helen
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Have you tried 'Rules of Engagement'?
I think they are the best rules for WW2 platoon level action - far better than BA, but lacking the marketing machine behind them.
My Finns are all from Lon at Brigade. So if these match and can fill some gaps, or it inspires Lon to release some more, I'll be a happy bunny :D
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Really like this KS.Even if Winter War isn't my favourite theater I think there's plenty of stuff coming that could be used for other theatres too. lol
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This is tempting ;D
Is there any concept art or greens of the White Death freebie? Who is the sculpter of these ranges?
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Just pledged a squad of Finns, they will go great with my SSS game!
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Having noticed that Model Cajander Finns (I hope it was my suggestion that caught wind :D) as one of the new stretchgoals I think I have to pledge in this one ;D
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About finnish baggage, horse or man drawn sled or ahkio would be better.
Possible russian "elites/volunteers" with sheepskin coat and felt or long boots.
Or other mishmash, look "Memories" at http://www.mannerheim-line.com/person.htm
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just pledged for a finish Platoon :) my first kickstater 8)
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Having noticed that Model Cajander Finns (I hope it was my suggestion that caught wind :D) as one of the new stretchgoals I think I have to pledge in this one ;D
I was happy to see those as well. I hope there will be several variants in civilian clothing. I would like a full platoon of them ;D
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I've wanted to do Winter War for a while (and it is one of the only bits of WW2 that would look "right" in 28mm to me), but have been waiting for some decent figures to do it with - now they are on the way, and from a local company too!
Working on rules to use - I don't like Bolt Action and Arc of Fire - so current thoughts are Force on Force WW2 variant (as this really is an asymmetric war) or possibly Osprey's A World Aflame. Any other ideas?
Chain Of Command would be almost ideal for this.
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Mini range seems to be made with Chain of Command in mind, so it's a great range for all of those who use that rules set but of course for the rest of us who are not (yet) familiar with CoC. I was thinking of starting with BA rules myself, at first, at least.
And the KS just reached £20000 which means the model Cajander Finns are a go! Super, as those can be so easily used for many interwar periods stuff besides the Winter War. And the Winter War Red Army chaps are also great for Interwar period and other early WW2 campaigns as well.
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Great to see this did so well and can't wait to get my minis :D
Hopefully they will do a Vietnam one next year ;)
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Hopefully they will do a Vietnam one next year ;)
For accuracy, the Aussies in South Vietnam where not provided with the correct smg when designing the range. A major error in my view and something that could have been avoided if a little research was undertaken.
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I am kind of bummed, I had to pull out at the last min to use the money for new breaks. :(
But I will just have to consul myself with 2nd American civil war interwar kickstarter instead :P
I wanted to use the the Russians for a possible invasion of Alaska or as very well Equipped troops from the Seattle soviet, and the Cajander Finns as militia. Just have to order them separately then.
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Great to see that KS fared so great. Now I should decide if I want everything at one go in early 2014 or bit by bit starting late Oct/early Nov... like I wouldn't have too much to paint already.
I will surely use the model Cajanders (the rifle armed ones) for Interwar period as well, the Kinship Wars being one good true historical choice.
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This kickstarter is amazing! Pay £60 and get some 150 miniatures worth post free. Too good to be true :o
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This kickstarter is amazing! Pay £60 and get some 150 miniatures worth post free. Too good to be true :o
Wow, that was a premonition. Too good to be true, indeed. A year and a half on, and I've not received a thing.
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Wow, that was a premonition. Too good to be true, indeed. A year and a half on, and I've not received a thing.
Ditto
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Ah Kickstarter.... Well according to KS page he garnered near enough to sixty thousand quid. I suspect your minitures will be on their way when he gets back from the Bahamas. The money will have to run out eventually. ;)
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I have been lucky, still waiting on 2 more trucks, a missing bench for the other truck I got, a Finnish MMG team and about half of my Model Cander showed....overall, not a bad thing.....I think poor Gav is just overwhelmed as a one man operation, the casting machine going down and having to rely on some outside sculpting and casting to gum up the works..
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Wow, that really sucks!
I think poor Gav is just overwhelmed as a one man operation, the casting machine going down and having to rely on some outside sculpting and casting to gum up the works..
I wouldn't call him "poor".
Kickstarter have an option to fix a maximum number of orders. You want to reach a minimum level to make things large scale, but you don't want to overdo, especially when you've got to do it alone.
I don't honestly think that "well, too many orders sorry" is an excuse, reaper did that, as well as many others. That's HIGHLY unprofessional, and unethical. Might be legal, but just that.
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Gav gave me a refund....
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Gav gave me a refund....
Judging by the photos of the miniatures on the KS site and previous efforts by Baker Company, he should probably extend that to all his customers. ;)
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Well I have just asked for a refund so lets see what happens
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In fairness, Gav didnt seem like a crook, just in over his head. However, I only pledged the one intro squad and after 3 'attempts' to send, I just asked for a refund and got it in about an hour or two.
Hopefully you guys are made whole as well!
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Still waiting for most of my stuff as well. Some guy at my club already received everything sometime in the Autumn and some haven't received anything.
I think Gav went quite a bit over his head with the Kickstarter with all those free stretch goals and free shipping. Especially the shipping will be costly as in the beginning he was shipping multiple packets to people. He's probably going at something closer to 1000 deliveries and some going to USA etc. with weights of multiple kilos so it's not going to be cheap.
But even without the shipping costs the sheer amount of minis to be cast and sculpted is ridiculous. Ainsty said at TMP that they are producing about 4000 vehicles of 8 different types. With none of this being automated everything is done by hand. If you are doing this fast you might get done 6-8 vehicles per hour done with all the drying times etc. And your rubber moulds are only going to be good for something like 50-60 resin castings a bit depending on the geometry and amount of undercuts. So they are going to have to do at least 7-8 moulds per vehicle type. Add to that something like 130,000 figures that Gavin is doing alone. And you can't do too many lead castings with the same mould in a row before you have to let it cool down so assembly line style speeds are definately not going to be achieved. Even without your regular orders coming in to disturb you they are looking at something like a half a years worth of work just casting this stuff nonstop. And I'd expect at least Ainsty to have other things to do as well.
He should definately have made the stretch goals cost something and limit the amounts. Carried away with the joy of success I guess :D Sculpting quality definately went down the drain when he realized just how much he needed to sculpt. The few minis I received contain the worst miniatures I have ever laid my eyes on. The couple of ones he did before the campaign were actually of a pretty decent standard.
But I think the main issue with the whole campaign is that he has just completely gone offline. No updates and no answers to anyone. A few sentences every week or so would have kept people happy instead of the once per month updates that everything is finished next week, which was always clearly a blatant lie. And now we don't even have those :)
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I know a fellow who is interested in the reds if anyone is looking to dump what they have
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I did a rough tote of the figures ordered and it came to around 15,000.
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I did a rough tote of the figures ordered and it came to around 15,000.
Yes but he has been casting for over a year. I think the main issue is he is now just ignoring his backers.
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Yes but he has been casting for over a year. I think the main issue is he is now just ignoring his backers.
Perhaps because he is putting al of is his time and energy in casting that amount of mini's? It's never a good thing to "ignore" your backers, but do try to put yourself in his position.
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I first met Gavin some years ago when he was starting Warmacre, enthusiastic and keen he may be, but he is at heart a decent and honest man, please don't confuse him with a con artist......
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Perhaps because he is putting al of is his time and energy in casting that amount of mini's? It's never a good thing to "ignore" your backers, but do try to put yourself in his position.
Its not just that he has ignored his backers he has promised delivery many times to the backers and kept telling people he had sent stuff when he had not or that he would send it next week. I was fine waiting and told him this but the issue now is he is ignoring everyone rather than just being honest.
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I opted for the everything to be delivered in one go. Last time I heard of Gav was before Xmas, telling me that items would be sent in January. I have enquired twice after that about the items but got no reply.
I stated that I would be happy to take resin vehicles instead of metal miniatures if the casting of lots of infantry minis is a problem etc but nothing. It is starting to be a huge disappointment and would be now happy just to get my money back from this.
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It's a shame. But one thing that can be learned form this is that there is obviously an apitite for 28mm winter war figures. Other manufatureres should take note.
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I honestly feel sorry for the bloke. I got some of my stuff, maybe most, but I haven't even unpacked it yet. The problem for me is that if I fancy doing a period now, I don't necessarily fancy it a year later.
I've just written it down to experience. I backed a project which was obviously way too generous with its stretch goals, to the extent that it was on the verge of getting something for nothing. That never works in reality and the writing should have been on the wall for me to see. In future I'll examine any kickstarter I get involved with much more carefully.
Rich
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You're right Rich, in that it was too generous with its stretch goals. It was too good to be true, and I wish I would have realized that at first. I don't think he set out for it to go down like this.
I, too, would be willing to sacrifice some of my pledge at this point and get something out of this rather than nothing. Maybe a new survey is in order, with items at closer to market value. Sure it would stink to lose out on part of it, but it would be better than a total wash. I'm still interested in the period. I have a bunch of Battle Honors minis I am happy with, I'd really like the vehicles, though.
The crazy thing is, those are all available from Warlord now, but I haven't bought them because technically I already paid for some.
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I never got the impression that Gav was a swindler, just bit off more than anyone could chew. Hope he finds his way out. I think appealing to the good graces of the pledgers with a new and realistic survey is not a bad idea. People have the right to say no, but something is always better than nothing, as you indicated :D