Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: NickNascati on October 18, 2013, 01:45:51 PM
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All,
So based on comparison photos I saw on this very forum, I ordered a few (thankfully) VSF figures from Ironclad. Well, they arrive yesterday and low and behold, to my eye they are noticably shorter than the Northstar IHMN figures and much smaller than my Black Scorpion models. The lack of consistency really is ridiculous.
I will say happily though, I did get two of Ironclad's tanks which are just beautiful.
Nick
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life is inconsistent....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Troops_of_the_Eight_nations_alliance_1900.jpg)
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But as I've said Ad nauseum, Weapons are not!
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You are doing wisely giving up, Nick. It's quixotic to expect miniature sizes to conform within the foreseeable future.
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Of course I am really not giving up, I did need to vent though. :)
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It is an eternal problem. I now as a matter of course trawl forums for comparisons between figures, more so if using a lot of manufacturers.
I love the look of Black Scorpion however after getting their cowboys, compare them to the perry original cowboys and later foundry ones, they went straight onto ebay.
Others like that are redoubt and offensive which are nearer 32mm.
I think as its a niche market pockets of varying depth lending or limiting the sculptors it will sadly always be the case as said.
Now lodged into fantasy games I am finding this also however it can be explained away more so with hand weapons and not firearms or webbing etc. ;D
And dont get me started on bases, slottas and multi part figures or separate weapons where you have to drill holes in their bleeding hands ;D :D
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I have begun to regularly email manufacturers asking for a sole to eye measure of their models. It is surprisingly difficult to get a clear answer.
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It can be something odd too that buggers it for me, hands, feet, the hat all sorts of things other than readily identifiable items.
I tend to have favourite sculpts, manufacturers where I know they will fit in e.g. Perry/Artizan/Crusader/Most if not all Paul Hicks Sculpts - others I need to play around with.
My first jaunt where an issue was 20mm with trying to Mix SHQ and Britannia mins...they just dont... next was ECW and the "large" ranges - redoubt and renegade against the Perry/Foundry (and now warlord) who are much smaller.
Luckily there is such a big range of redubt I went solely for them bar a Renegade regiment :D
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I hear You....
But as I've said Ad nauseum, Weapons are not!
really?
I am not a weapon specialist, but for the few army issues I did research by now, there are always variations
rifle, carbine, artillery rifle - no army has one and only one issue of sidearm at the same time
plus, how precise can weapons be sculpted in 28mm? identifyable by the model?
think about that: why do You want to combine different sculptors? for variation I assume
we all know by now that in 28mm variation means not different postures on the otherwise scale true figures, but variation in size and mainly proportion. So we want to allow the sculptors artistic freedom so they can enrich the available range of figures for a certain theme, but none at all if they want to size their weapons to fit their choice of proportion...?
a bit of a contradiction don't You think?
for the otherwise excellently sculpted Artizan Foreign legion, I am not able to tell apart a Lebel carbine and a MAS 36.
I could not be able to tell apart a moisin nagant rifle and carbine (im miniature) for that matter.
sometimes sculptors do the same weapon differently in length and thickness, especially if the sculpts lie a few years apart...
this is the price I am willing to pay for variation, and then I try to adapt the background story if it fits
if not, I can always try to adapt the weapon if I am that finicky about that
we have the choice....
and then - VSF weapons.... seriously? lol lol lol
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I say weapons do not differ, because by specific type they should not. A Winchester is a specific size, so if you are using as some say you can, an Artizan cowboy along with a Black Scorpion cowboy, then the Winchester should be the same size, just as a colt revolver should be relatively speaking the same size as any other colt revolver.
Believe me, I would never choose to mix manufacturers if ranges were complete.
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(http://www.winchestercollector.org/images/guns/1866.jpg)
(http://militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/winchester-model-1873.jpg)
(http://countryclassics08.com/images/1866yellowboy.jpg)
(http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8027/9514791_1.jpg?v=8CCCA03558094C0)
(http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/11425/11704872_1.jpg?v=8CE8F7B918D6210)
(http://www.americanhandgunner.com/~hrank/ah/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/army2.jpg)
I am sorry, but which one is the right size again? ;)
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Okay, you win, you've dug deeper than I have. :)
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Sorry, I do not want to win and I don't want to show You up.
if Your artistic preference is that humans and weapons be standardized, then fine, so be it.
But just say so ;)
But be aware that this is late 20th century industrialized thinking. As I argued, the assembly line was invented after 1900.
I decided from the start of my hobby activity that I prefer artistic variation, and if ranges are very divergent in style, I try to put them in different units. But argueing with size is simply irrelevant, because reality is inconsistent. Thank god the time when units had to be made of 20 identical soldiers is over...
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See, maybe that is my problem. I'm 62, and have been playing with toy soldiers probably as long as you've been alive. I am well used to units of identical figures. This "new fangled" skirmish level stuff takes some getting used to. You have convinced me to embrace the differences! :))
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But be aware that this is late 20th century industrialized thinking. As I argued, the assembly line was invented after 1900.
I beg to differ. In the late 18th century the Royal Navy set up assembly lines to make pulleys and rope in the Portsmouth dockyards. These were replicated across Britain during the Industrial Evolution.
Do not believe everything the Ford corporation has tried to claim as its own ;)
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Yes, I know, it was oldsmobile that started assembling cars in assembly lines, here we go nitpicking again... lol
so it is not anymore a revolution....
so, started with toy soldiers at the age of 17 in 1968 - impressing ;)
anyway, I guess I made my point. I think it is a matter of perspective.
there must be a reason why they had to choose the guear soldiers by size..
I just read that Frederick gave away his amber room in exchange for soldiers with guard size....
Back in the 90ies, I used to buy the huge Old glory packs and sold all the doubles.
I really detest doubles - that's how I came to head and weapon swaps
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I beg to differ. In the late 18th century the Royal Navy set up assembly lines to make pulleys and rope in the Portsmouth dockyards. These were replicated across Britain during the Industrial Evolution.
Most people make that mistake - that's because most only think of the moving assembly line - which was introduced by Henry Ford in 1908. the innovation is what made possible a modern consumer culture by enabling an (in theory) low-unit cost for manufactured goods.
Honoré Blanc (a French gunsmith) came up with the assembly line concept in the middle of the eighteenth century use of interchangeable parts (building on the Gribeauval system introduced by Lieutenant General Jean Baptiste Vaquette de Gribeauval - which was a new production system that allowed lighter, more uniform guns without sacrificing range - and even though its focus at the time was artillery rather than muskets or handguns, it had a profound effect at the time) - basically, the Royal Navy pinched the idea ;)
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former user, Yep, you may bask in my glory. :)
I was "Theme Editor" for the Renaissance for the Courier Magazine in 1973, and had a couple articles published before that.
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well, I had to look this up lol
I am sorry it doesn't exist anymore :(
but You can ask me anytime if You need 19th century weapons researched ;)