Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Neldoreth on October 21, 2013, 06:51:11 PM
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I have been agonizing over a good set of figures for an early Andalusian army - The Umayyad period Andalusians - to represent the expansion and stabilization of the Andalusians on the peninsula and I'd have a hard time... Most ranges are too early or too late. Most ranges have pointy helmets; seriously, where is the evidence of pointy helmets other than the Viking movie made in the 60s?!?
In any case, Artizan makes some decent figs, but they're lead and not good for children. So I picked up the HaT figs hoping they might work, and for the most part they don't, with the exception of the light horse figs. The light horse are larger in scale compared to all of the other Andalusians from HaT so they fit better with other 28mm figs, and they are not too bad in general.
I'm still not sure how to fill out the rest of the army with medium cavalry and infantry... Perhaps converted Gripping Beast dark-age warriors or COnquest plastic Normans? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Some pics below - too many to post them all here - so for more pictures, please see my gallery:
Al-Andalus Andalusian Gallery on Hour of Wolves (http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=andalus&pic=21)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/3_AndalusianLightHorse.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/3_AndalusianLightHorse3.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/3_normanComparison1.jpg)
HaT Andalusian Light Horse compared to Conquest Norman Knights
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/3_vikingComparison.jpg)
HaT Andalusian Light Horse compared to Wargames Factory Vikings
Thanks
n.
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Wooow!! Half-decent, you say?? They are wonderful!!
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Well, they are very nicely painted indeed, but the comparison with Wargames Factory is apt.
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Well, they are very nicely painted indeed, but the comparison with Wargames Factory is apt.
Thanks for the kind words!
In regards to comparison, the new plastic GB vikings are a cut above these and the WF vikings... but the old metal GB stuff? I'd say it's on par :)
Thanks again,
n.
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They look great.
And I must say they scale up far better then I thought.
Thanks for sharing.
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:-* :-*Lovely!
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thanks for posting these Neldorath - very timely.
they look superb, and I've been searching the net of late trying to find examples of really well painted plastics, as I've just bought into them in a big way, and was a bit worried at the lack 'modern' paintjobs I was seeing (and wondering if it was a limitation of the material...).
I think your style (shading not too blended etc) is just about ideal for figs of this size.
I hope there's some info on your site about your materials and approach to painting plastics? If not, could you post here?
*** I've just seen your website page on painting figs, and see that my comment on blending above might come across 'wrong', so hope that isn't the case! I see now just how subtly accomplished your work in that area is when you want it to be.
but despite that page - any more details about your approach specifically to plastic would be much appreciated, including undercoating material etc, etc - and what paints you use generally.
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Really well painted miniatures but the poses are a little stiff for my liking and I have a problem in that they all face the same way. :-[ That said HaT are getting better and being plastic they are cheap. :D They are also in a period that I am keen to get into so I will have another look at them. A quandary ???
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*** I've just seen your website page on painting figs, and see that my comment on blending above might come across 'wrong', so hope that isn't the case! I see now just how subtly accomplished your work in that area is when you want it to be.
but despite that page - any more details about your approach specifically to plastic would be much appreciated, including undercoating material etc, etc - and what paints you use generally.
Haha, no problem! When I first read your post I was totally like "What? You call that 'not too blended'?!?" But then I looked at the figs again, and you're absolutely right, they aren't blended. And now I think I'll write an article on my site titled Painting a half decent army: nicely painted figs without insane amounts of work.
In the mean time, my style is all highlighting; I start with a black primer, dark base coat, and then work my way up to strong highlights. I also use the cheapest paints I can get... I started with Ral Partha, they turned into Iron Wind Metals, and then IWM cut their lines, which broke my painter's heart. After that I wandered aimlessly selecting samples from various different vendors until I settled on those crappy craft paints from that popular hobby chain. I find that their lack of pigment makes blending easier ;)
I'll post some tutorials though!
Thanks for the reply, appreciated.
n
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Really well painted miniatures but the poses are a little stiff for my liking and I have a problem in that they all face the same way. :-[ That said HaT are getting better and being plastic they are cheap. :D They are also in a period that I am keen to get into so I will have another look at them. A quandary ???
Glad I could throw a wrench into your conception! But don't get me wrong... The only HaT Andalusian period figs that are any good are specifically the Andalusian Light Horse. All the other Andalusian figs have tiny heads and hands... Looking forward to seeing what you come up with though when you jump into the period!
Thanks
n
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In the mean time, my style is all highlighting; I start with a black primer, dark base coat, and then work my way up to strong highlights. I also use the cheapest paints I can get... I started with Ral Partha, they turned into Iron Wind Metals, and then IWM cut their lines, which broke my painter's heart. After that I wandered aimlessly selecting samples from various different vendors until I settled on those crappy craft paints from that popular hobby chain. I find that their lack of pigment makes blending easier ;)
I´m in total Agreement. :) :) The paints apparently all come from the same couple of sources anyway...just a bit of floor/windowcleaner added to the more expensive ones. I binned my Vallejo etc paints years ago.
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Are all the figures horse archers? I tend to think of them being largely javelin armed - but I am no expert.
Very nicely painted
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I binned my Vallejo etc paints years ago.
Over here, Vallejo paints are usually cheaper than GW. Not by a huge amount, but I buy my Vals at a little under £2, whilst the GW's are a little over.
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Got a load of hat stuff for my VBCW collection. Not always the best but you got alot for your cash.
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Are all the figures horse archers? I tend to think of them being largely javelin armed - but I am no expert.
Very nicely painted
It's true that the Andalusians light horse would have typically used javelins. The HaT box includes six archers and six javelins. I like to think that archers would have been more prevalent in the Umayyad (early) period in Andalusia given their strong influence from the Middle East. Later as the North Africans moved in things changed I think, when they adopted the adarga shields and javelins... Then again, the Andalusians were influenced by the local visigothic Spanish as well... I don't know man! jeez!
:)
n.
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Over here, Vallejo paints are usually cheaper than GW. Not by a huge amount, but I buy my Vals at a little under £2, whilst the GW's are a little over.
For me it's not about cost. I find that the Vals are not really that much better for me, AND I really don't like those bottles. They tend to dry out on me and clog, and after I squeezed on an orange one that I really needed a drop of paint from and it blew up, costing me about 30 minutes of clean up time, I refused to use them ever again!..
But, ultimately, I meant to say used whatever you're comfortable with, whatever works best for you!
thanks
n
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Got a load of hat stuff for my VBCW collection. Not always the best but you got alot for your cash.
That's cool! Do you have links to pictures?
I find that some HaT stuff is great, some is not... they very quite a bit.
Thanks
n.
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Over here, Vallejo paints are usually cheaper than GW. Not by a huge amount, but I buy my Vals at a little under £2, whilst the GW's are a little over.
£2! I get 50ml of craft paint for that! :) Nice heavy glass bottles with a screw cap. Add a drop of floor/window cleaner and it´s exactly the same as all the paints aimed specifically at the Hobby.
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That's cool! Do you have links to pictures?
I find that some HaT stuff is great, some is not... they very quite a bit.
Thanks
n.
Fraid not mate, I've only got about 5% of it painted so far! :P
When I'm about 50 I'll get back to you..
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Well we miss your painting and awesome games here in Calgary.
Beautiful work as always.
-Roger
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I got around to posting pictures of the spear/javelin Andalusian light horse that I finished back in November 2013. These figs are nicer than the archers from previously I think.
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/4_AndalusianLightHorse.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/4_AndalusianLightHorse2.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/4_AndalusianLightHorse3.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/4_AndalusianLightHorse4.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/4_AndalusianLightHorse6.jpg)
Thanks
n
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:-* :-* :-*
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Came out lovely :D
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Here are some contemporary images that may be of intrest:
The San Miguel Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.960 (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Beatus-San_Miguel-Jerusalem.htm)
Horsemen on an Umayyad Casket from Cordoba, c.966-968 (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Umayyad-David-Casket.htm)
The Valcavado Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, 970 (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Beatus-Valcavado-Jerusalem.htm)
The Urgell Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.975 (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Beatus-Urgell-f82v.htm)
The Gerona Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.975 (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Beatus-Gerona-f134v.htm)
Leyre (or Pamplona) Casket, Umayyad Spain, 1004-1005AD (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Leyre-Casket.htm)
The Pila, an Islamic Ablution Basin, Spain, early to mid 11th century (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Pila-11thC-detail_of_horsemen-large.htm)
Moorish Casket from Cuenca, Spain, c.1049AD (http://warfare.gq/6C-11C/Cuenca_casket.htm)
Mirror Site
The San Miguel Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.960 (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Beatus-San_Miguel-Jerusalem.htm)
Horsemen on an Umayyad Casket from Cordoba, c.966-968 (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Umayyad-David-Casket.htm)
The Valcavado Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, 970 (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Beatus-Valcavado-Jerusalem.htm)
The Urgell Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.975 (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Beatus-Urgell-f82v.htm)
The Gerona Beatus Codex by Beatus of Liébana, Spain, c.975 (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Beatus-Gerona-f134v.htm)
Leyre (or Pamplona) Casket, Umayyad Spain, 1004-1005AD (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Leyre-Casket.htm)
The Pila, an Islamic Ablution Basin, Spain, early to mid 11th century (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Pila-11thC-detail_of_horsemen-large.htm)
Moorish Casket from Cuenca, Spain, c.1049AD (http://warfare.cf/6C-11C/Cuenca_casket.htm)
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.uphero.com/index.htm)
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You've done a striling job with the brushwork considering they're 1/72...
Excellent stuff :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
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Thread Necromancy!
So I am working on my 28mm Andalusians again. I really want them as an age-appropriate opponent for my Vikings. Smashing those vikings into Romans just doesn't feel quite right anymore :D
Next up is a unit of Andalusian spears. I have a few on the painting block, but here are the spear-armed city militia that I plan to collect on a multi-base when I'm done the ones I'm currently working on. There were painted over the past few years, so they'll finally be happy to be put to use! These are Gripping Beast plastic Arabs, which aren't perfect but work well, especially with some Conquest Norman and GB Dark Age warrior bits. Only thing is, they look a bit too highly motivated...
Unit leader, should be the only motivated soldier in the bunch! It's a Gripping Beast Arab with a Conquest Games Norman head and some putty for the chain mail under the tunic. Apparently the Andalusians likely work tunics over top of their chain, so I thought I'd add it in here... I'll likely do it for the cavalry as well...
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_captain.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_spearman01.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_spearman02.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_spearman03.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/LeadPaintersLeague11/Neldoreth_Round04_The%20Defense_of_Cordoba.jpg)
An I need some slingers too, so here are the first couple using Gripping Beast dark age slinger hands and heads. I read that there were some 'slav slaves' in the ranks of slingers and skirmishers, but that they were actually norther Europeans (Franks, Vikings, etc), so I added a viking-ish person in there for flavour.
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_slinger.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/05_slinger02.jpg)
Thanks
n
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Lovely, lovely work :)
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:o :o :o :-* :-* :-*
So impressive! I really love your work
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Great painting with lovely vibrant colours. :-* :-*
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Amazing painting :-*
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Brilliant job! That armour under robes/ tunics is dead handy isn’t it? I used the same theory to save a lot of work when I was kitbashing some Bactrian cavalry from bits and pieces...
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Thanks for the positive feedback, greatly appreciated!
@AdamPHayes, I have a few more armour strips to do on my plastic cavalry... Should be fun!
Painted up some more figures, five more for the Andalusian unit. They aren't based yet, but two more and then I'll base them onto a multi-base.
See more pics on the website: http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=andalus&pic=41 (http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=andalus&pic=41)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/08_wholeGroup.jpg)
Thanks
n
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I love it! Years ago I spent quite a bit of time converting Wargames Factory Persians and Conquest Normans into Andalusian foot and cavalry. It's great to see others following a similar path.
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I love it! Years ago I spent quite a bit of time converting Wargames Factory Persians and Conquest Normans into Andalusian foot and cavalry. It's great to see others following a similar path.
I remember that project quite well! It inspired me. Are you playing with those figs still? What rule set are you using?
I've had the Andalusian bug for some time, and I considered getting Artizan figs, but I wanted to wait for plastics. Then I saw your project and thought, maybe it's time. Those Normans were especially good I thought! That was a great project. I am still going to have some of those Conquest figs in the army. But I'm grateful that GB released the Arabs, much less work to do on those!
Thanks for the feedback,
n
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I remember that project quite well! It inspired me. Are you playing with those figs still? What rule set are you using?
Sadly only a game of Lion Rampant with the army used to build both forces. The goal was to play some games of Hail Caesar but that hasn't worked out as I haven't got an opponent with a suitable army or an opposing force of my own... yet. My gaming buddies that play HC do so in 15mm. :-[
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Finished painting up the rest of the unit now with the addition of two more spear-wielding city folk. I'm happy with the way they turned out, and with the figures in general, but they are a bit too enthusiastic for what I imagine Andalusian city militia should be.
I had planned to base them all up on a single multi-base as a spear unit for Kings of War, but now that I see them all together, I'm wondering if I shouldn't; they all have fancy shields and clothes, but most of them will be lost in the crowd. Maybe I should paint up more simple figures for the back ranks instead? What do you think?
I still want them on a big base though because the spears are too fragile to be singly based.
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/09_spearman2.jpg)
My brush had worn out, making it tough to do the flower details. Despite the sad blobby-ness, I'm still happy with it. The shield didn't really look how I imagined it would either...
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/09_spearman1.jpg)
No clothing pattern but a fancy yellow shield, only one color though...
Thanks
n.
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Lovely colourful work :-* :-* :-*
The colours really sing out 8)
Kind Regards
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They look really good.
I think that if you want to make big units for HC, for speed of painting you will need to go with a few simpler designs! If they go in middle ranks of units, they will still look good with the special shields on the front rank.
You can also get away with a less dense formation for units if you multi-base them.
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Thanks for the feedback, appreciated!
Getting them ready for multi-basing I set up I put some blue-tack on them and stuck them all on a unit-sized base. So far it's looking pretty good so I'll likely just throw them all on one and then start on the next unit.
Next up after the multi-basing are some Christian Mercenary Knights! And perhaps my army general, mounted.
Thanks
n
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Here's the blue-tacked first draft all together.
I'm thinking of doing a bit more of a diorama though... not sure exactly what, but it might include a fence and some goats perhaps...
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/09_spearUnit.jpg)
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The figures look really good.
I think I would give them a bit more space on the base, so that the shields and other detail can been seen well.
As to adding terrain to the base, its one of those choices, while it looks good, you do have to balance that the unit seems to always be moving a fence or livestock around with them. I did some British Paras for Arnhem with ruined walls on the bases, and while I like the look of them, when they are on the gaming table they can look a bit odd.
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Fantastic painting; they will look great together on a scenic base.
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Fantastic painting; they will look great together on a scenic base.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing them on a good scenic base too :)
Kind Regards
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Finished the based-up unit.
I realized today that I finished the first figures for this unit in October 2015... four years... sheesh o_o lol
Very happy with this unit! I have four figures left over, so hopefully the next one won't take another four years!
Full-size images on the site: http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=andalus&pic=48
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/10_spearUnit01.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/10_spearUnit02.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/10_spearUnit03.jpg)
(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/andalus/10_spearUnit04.jpg)
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A lovely looking unit!! 8) 8) 8)
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VERY colorfull unit. Considering the amount of detail on these guys, four years seems reasonable ;)
It might have been mentioned further back but what rule system are you basing them for and what are your end plans for this project?
Cheers
Erik
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Never mind the painting time as long as it was fun to paint all the time. The results are really outstanding. I'd love to have some units like that in my Gallery!
Keep on!
Cheers
GS
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Wonderful painting. :-* :-* :-*
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Thanks for the positive feedback, it's appreciated!
These are for my Kings of War historical armies. These will be the natural enemy for my Kings of War Vikings (http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=swedeViking&full=1). The viking army is pretty big already, but I am working on a unit of un-armored spearmen for that one that's been underway since 2014... I also have a Roman Army (http://www.hourofwolves.org/?view=armies&which=marianRome&full=1), but I feel like a cheater pushing my Romans against my Vikings :)
Thanks
n
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Great looking figures! Very inspirational!! It would be great if you could put a tutorial together on how you paint he patterned fabric so well! :)
How big is the base they're on?
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Thanks LazyStudent,
I've been toying with the idea of video tutorials, but it's a lot of setup and time and effort. Maybe I'll give it a try though, I have a decent mic and some half-decent cameras going to waste.
The base is based on a unit of 20 figures based on 20mm bases, which is five by four, so it's 100mm or 10cm by 80mm or 8cm. The think about Kings of War that is great is that it plays a lot like Warhammer, but it's fast and you don't remove your models piecemeal, which allows for the unit basing, which I *really* like. Managing hundreds of single-based figures for a game that is ultimately based on multi-figure units that die as one like Warhammer Fantasy isn't fun. Probably why that game is dead :D
Thanks
n
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Beautiful work. Nicely done. (https://groups.tapatalk-cdn.com/smilies/52929/1534797200.1262-smiley.gif)
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Thanks LazyStudent,
I've been toying with the idea of video tutorials, but it's a lot of setup and time and effort. Maybe I'll give it a try though, I have a decent mic and some half-decent cameras going to waste.
The base is based on a unit of 20 figures based on 20mm bases, which is five by four, so it's 100mm or 10cm by 80mm or 8cm. The think about Kings of War that is great is that it plays a lot like Warhammer, but it's fast and you don't remove your models piecemeal, which allows for the unit basing, which I *really* like. Managing hundreds of single-based figures for a game that is ultimately based on multi-figure units that die as one like Warhammer Fantasy isn't fun. Probably why that game is dead :D
Thanks
n
Well, I would watch it if you made it!! Certainly a much higher standard than I can reach with my minis and so I'm always happy to learn! 😃
Ah, I see. We have a similar logic for our 28mm DBA games here in Hamburg. We use 50 mm for foot bar depths and 80 mm for mounted (all the official 60 mm wide though), which means we get much more of a diorama feel. Sadly the downside is the need to paint lots of extra minis for just one base! 😃
LS
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We use 50 mm for foot bar depths and 80 mm for mounted (all the official 60 mm wide though), which means we get much more of a diorama feel. Sadly the downside is the need to paint lots of extra minis for just one base! 😃
That's great! I originally based up my Vikings and Romans for DBA, but also a little deeper simply because modern figures don't fit on the old suggested base sizes anymore! DBA is great, but around here it's harder to find a 28mm game of DBA than it is Kings of War historical.
Thanks
n