Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: The_Beast on October 30, 2013, 11:53:40 AM
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In the midst of viewing ViparDan's most charming H.M.A.S. Boudicea, Servitor Of RAFM 'let slip' an in-shop conversation about building an 'airship'.
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I have been chatting it up with our 3D designer here and he says he will work on an airship design if I can get ten people who say they would "buy one" here on the forum. The airship would be 12" long, 4" wide and up to 6" tall, roughly the size of that one I have pictured. It would have a hull and superstructure made of resin and pieces and bits of metal.
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Full message: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59508.msg713147#msg713147
Please note, while most of use 'airship' for lighter than air craft, he'd referred previously to his 'nef as an airship as well.
Rather than allow further threadjacking, AND risk the concept lost in the noise, I thought I'd start a separate conversation here. Please note, we've already said 'if I like the design', and I popped up with 'if none-too-dear.' ;)
Doug
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Well, I assume it not designed to be for 25+ mm figures? lol My eternal hunt for something smaller for war gaming... ;)
Edit: " ... 12" long, 4" wide and up to 6" tall... " could be a small "non-skiff" 25+ mm size or a large 15 mm size ship.
If it was 15 mm (where I am seriously looking to go eventually) compatible (and usual price caveats) then I would seriously have to consider committing to buying one.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Yep,
Hard to tell just be the dimensions.
Concept art would be nice.
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The concept behind the ship is a flying aerial support ship, that also picks up or delivers ammo, wounded or supplies. Thus the landing gear.
The one pictured here shows size with the 25mm figs on board. Crew of 15 to 20????
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_28_10_13_6_26_30.JPG)
We were thinking in the $60USD range. We can't promise but we would hold that price for initial delivery based on support levels.
What would you like to see in concepts? We have the artist working on a concept now but input is always desired.
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Sorry, I suppose I should have included original image in the thread.
$60 is in my comfort zone; might even push for a couple, if the final snags me. Still like a forward pilot house for smaller craft such as this which suggests tricky, close in maneuvering.
Not a deal breaker, mind you.
As for size, I've always assumed flyers tend smaller than floaters. And, unless you're planning one ship to take up the whole table... *shrug*
Doug
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Looks good to me. ;)
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Looks very interesting, but depends how much it would be this side of the pond.
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here my very honest (critical) thoughts:
size - 12" long, 4" wide and up to 6" tall ; in resin and metal on a stick? 20 cm above the tabletop? I have my problems imagining plastic models or scratchbuilds...
cost - 60$ is out of my comfort zone, especially if I can buy the new "nautilus" by pegasus, roughly the same price; or the GW dark eldar raide, cheaper; but that might be my inclination to kitbashing
design - many 28mm neffs resemble flying boats because people convert boats; Neffs designed from scratch should look differently to justify the effort - Why not release a neff conversion kit for boats?
honestly? with resin kits I would stick to a broad range of smaller, lighter and cheaper variants or a system solution of combining small hulls with a variety of attachments - the size of the Martian skiff we have seen recently would be the upper limit, but a bit smaller and cheaper could be more affordable
IMHO
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:(
Sorry $60 is "okay" for 25+ mm for a bigger budget than mine but I am going away from that size figure so I will have to pass. If it looked more 15 mm compatible I would have to consider it but, alas, it doesn't.
In 15 mm it would be more of a large cargo craft but that would be usable too.
Very nice if rather stereotypical in that it is ship shaped (no pun intended) but in most VSF the Navy runs such craft which I suppose justifies the design. I would expect a flyer to more aircraft like but then I am a product of the USAF instead of the USN...
Gracias,
Glenn
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That is pretty cool. I would definitely be interested in at least one, but not if it involves Indiegogo. Not at all a fan of being charged and having the charge reversed if the project fails.
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Got my "smaller" neff done. It is based on a 1/72nd scale PT202 hull.
The artist is working on concept art. Enjoy!
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_04_11_13_9_59_02.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_04_11_13_10_02_07.JPG)
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here my very honest (critical) thoughts:
Sorry for the delay for replying; I share a number of your concerns, but slightly different emphasis.
size - 12" long, 4" wide and up to 6" tall ; in resin and metal on a stick? 20 cm above the tabletop? I have my problems imagining plastic models or scratchbuilds...
We've several scratchbuilds in the size range, some moderately heavy. Can work.
cost - 60$ is out of my comfort zone, especially if I can buy the new "nautilus" by pegasus, roughly the same price; or the GW dark eldar raide, cheaper; but that might be my inclination to kitbashing
I've had trouble tracking down the Nautilus, so no comment, but the Raider is about half the size of this, and large production run. Economy of scale vs. something I'm really interested in. (I've several raider hulls, major conversion to what I'd want.)
design - many 28mm neffs resemble flying boats because people convert boats; Neffs designed from scratch should look differently to justify the effort - Why not release a neff conversion kit for boats?
Nearer to bang on for me; it's why I want to convert the near flat-bottomed POTF desert skiff (In reverse, I might add). However, a heck of a lot of 'nef images are also boat-like, and I suspect many people convert boats because they're comfortable with them.
honestly? with resin kits I would stick to a broad range of smaller, lighter and cheaper variants or a system solution of combining small hulls with a variety of attachments - the size of the Martian skiff we have seen recently would be the upper limit, but a bit smaller and cheaper could be more affordable
Well, as I said above, we shall agree to disagree, but switching back to the price discussion, if it's the skiff I'm thinking of, and I may have currency conversions mixed up, it appears to be, again, more expensive, and a good deal smaller and simpler than the project we're discussing.
Lovely beast, mind you, but outside of MY comfort zone.
Edit: I guess the other one you might have in mind is the Tobsen77 skiff; that I DO have, but really doesn't compare.
IMHO
Cherished! And, I'll offer my apologies for misrepresenting or interpreting ANYTHING you've said.
Doug
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no problem - I did not want to discuss or criticize the idea, just give some input....
I meant the Martian Skiff by Red Planet Miniatures, did not know Tobsen had one too - couldn't find it btw
the Ironclad Neff too would be my upper margin for size.
but all my concerns are obsolete if You find a market for that, so.... :)
the Pegasus Nautilus floods ebay recently, btw
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I think, ideally, it'd be nice to see a company build a large range of NEF components...not particular ships.
-A couple sizes of hulls/decks (decks could easily be laser-cut mdf, thus cheap...maybe some hulls could be the same - the rest of the bits could be resin)
-A couple different deck materials
-A couple different engines/power sources
-A couple different turrets/cannons/stations
-A couple different superstructures/bridges
I think it'd be brilliant to be able to pick-n-choose and mash up some personality straight from the shop. It would also make certain components smaller/easier to produce. I'm a big fan of modular stuff, and I see no reason why this concept wouldn't work for the way nefs appear.
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which is an interesting idea...
just the other day I took a closer look at the river boat range Grand Manner is offering, and it appeared to me it might be a modular system - why not use the idea for neffs if people prefer the angular boat proxy approach anyway?
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I like Elbow's idea.
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We like Elbows idea as well. Not to be critical but for the sake of conversation. We can go that route.
However, a couple of things.
So you just took a project that I can do within a month at a cost of about $500 and changed it to a year long approximately five thousand dollar project that will look better. This is not a problem it is just that my initial capital outlay has just multiplied many times and the product may or may not be available for sale for a long period of time and I cannot recoup any of that cost until I at least have several pieces made so you can put them together.
Secondly, some people are not kit bashers, so we just lost them as customers.
We have to take baby steps at this point because we have found the VSF market place very small so far. Our past several projects in this genre have not been successful at all, we have not recouped our initial outlay for them at this time.
We continue to do VSF stuff, mainly because we like it, and like it alot.
We are not saying we will not go this route, it is just a much more difficult route.
The initial concept art is posted in our forum at http://rafm.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=598
Also we have discussed the price point at this point. A couple of people have compared this to a Games Workshop vehicle and a Pegasus Sub in terms of pricing so we have decided to come down on our initial pricing. We will offer this project for $50USD in the initial offering, but you guys will have to work for it. Simple, go to our forums and let us know you are interested by posting your comment, such as "I will buy", or "I am interested" in order to get the $50 price. Let us know your thoughts and we will try to incorporate your ideas. We are also coming up with a second concept just to provide some choice and that will be posted when we have the art.
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sorry, I can't see the picture, it appears to be broken - can You please fix it?
as to the modular concept - I do not see a contradiction - start with one neff, but make it modular from the start - or do You plan to cast it in one piece?
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I can't see it now either. It was there earlier when I checked on my phone.
I like the sub deck, not sure about the rounded design though.
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Well after some discussion here our 3D sculptor says modular is doable, so thanks for that input, great idea!
Here is a copy of the latest concept art. As you can see it is designed to be modular. The guns can lift out. The bottom can be changed. The deck house/bridge can be changed to a saucer idea or something altogether different. Also we will look at making the engines modular.
Well we are about $200 into this project already and we haven't even started the 3D rendering yet and we have asked our artist to come up with another design, just to see something different.
What do you think? Any comments good or bad will help.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_07_11_13_6_33_33.jpg)
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Like the idea of building and selling a Nef
Not sure I like your concept art though.
Why would a flying ship have a bow shaped to go through water.
I also think flat riveted sides would look better.
The Bridge does not look like it is past of the ship. It looks like a box stuck on top. The plate glass windows don't work for me either. I think the shape of the bridge could be improved with the addition of some wings, sticking out over the sides of the ship to allow the bridge crew to see underneath.
Instead of the under deck how about a large ball turret with the ground support gun.
You could also have a boarding ramp that drops from the underside to allow for the supplies to be off loaded and wound to be loaded on.
Bridge more like this one
http://www.naval-history.net/PhotoWW1-04cvBenMyChree3PS.jpg (http://www.naval-history.net/PhotoWW1-04cvBenMyChree3PS.jpg)
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That's funny because you picked out the same things we did when we got the artwork from the artist, in terms of the wings on the bridge and plate glass windows. Those windows are not period at all, for a steampunk, victorian science fiction piece.
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Great minds think alike :D
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I am not sure I understand the concept 100%
what is the irregular bulging under the deckhouse?
now the comments step by step
first of all, it is nice it takes a bit of departure from the boat idea, especially the keel house
I think the potential lies in these combinations - the bridge can have a deckhouse or keelhouse configuration, and there can be gun turret modules for the more heavily armed versions
if You want to vary the aft part for the propulsion, You can just as well vary the bow, be it boat/ram/nacelle type
and You should think from the start about a stable flight base system that supports the center of gravity of the model
good luck with the development, I think You are on the right way - keep it small, this way people will be able to buy more models and split their money up for a small fleet
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My... that is a big gun! :o
lol
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Wow,adjusting for recoil on that that would be a cast iron bitch! :o o_o
I like it from a game viewpoint. ;) lol
Gracias,
Glenn
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Yes, Bezzo doesn't do things by halves :D
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(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_07_11_13_6_33_33.jpg)
Now I can't claim to know what a 'nef is or what one's meant to look like but personally I like my airships ship-shaped, so aside from minor aesthetic issues (like you yourself mentioned, the windows), what I'm seeing here is something I'd happily do some skypirating with.
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I'm OK with boat-shaped as well. I'm just stoked that someone is going to do a large scale nef kit. Hopefully I can get a few.
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I'm OK with boat-shaped as well. I'm just stoked that someone is going to do a large scale nef kit. Hopefully I can get a few.
Indeed!
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(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_07_11_13_6_33_33.jpg)
Well having messed about with these in the past I'll give my 2p.
I like the overall concept and I love the keel deck. Not sure of a need for folding landing gear though when that deck is under the hull. I also don't like the rounded hull, it doesn't match the styles of the bridge and keel at all.
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And I'm still adjusting to the keel deck. :D
Does seem like it could do landing skid duty, though I'd think external bracing would be called for, but some landing gear seems right, just something more skid-like? For balance as landing?
As for the main hull, "I also don't like the rounded hull," by which I assume you mean half-hull, the forward half. Are you okay with the cylindrical engine fairings? I think I'd prefer round-edged (what's the round version of a chamfer? oh, a round) box, but just a bit.
As far as the fore, I'll be the first to admit taken aback by the curves and reversed curves, but curious to see how it'd look in real life(tm) .
And, yes, I know, Servitor, my curiosity doesn't pay the bills. Well, not yours... lol
Doug
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Does seem like it could do landing skid duty, though I'd think external bracing would be called for, but some landing gear seems right, just something more skid-like? For balance as landing?
I don't see why it should land - after all it is meant to be lighter than air
sell a mooring tower
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I don't see why it should land - after all it is meant to be lighter than air
sell a mooring tower
...except in an emergency, perhaps damage to whatever the heck lifts it. ;->=
Otherwise, no gear.
Doug
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sorry, but no
dirigible airships had no landing gear either, and that is what Aeroneffs are emulated after, or not?
I think a landing gear would seriously compromise the concept. Either they are lighter than air or not - you just can't switch it on or of.
Otherwise it is SF and not VSF
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Have to agree, I don't see a need for landing gear on a nef, especially not folding landing gear. There is a sub deck, why retract higher than that?
As for the main hull, "I also don't like the rounded hull," by which I assume you mean half-hull, the forward half. Are you okay with the cylindrical engine fairings? I think I'd prefer round-edged (what's the round version of a chamfer? oh, a round) box, but just a bit.
As far as the fore, I'll be the first to admit taken aback by the curves and reversed curves, but curious to see how it'd look in real life(tm) .
I think I'd prefer something more square for the engine fairings, would have to see it I think. But yeah, the front half just doesn't look natural.
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I would like to add the following to this:
IMHO - it is important to keep the design consistent in order to have it iconic - however it doesn't matter whether it is the late Victorian historicism, which is basically flat and angular with a lot of brick-o-brack, or the streamlined Art-Deco with curved and homogeneous integrated lines. It just shouldn't mix.
Of course historically it can mix a lot, but since we want to derive something unhistorical, it should stay stylistically centered, otherwise the transfer doesn't work
but this is only important for the start, because as soon as there are enough modules available, everyone can have their own mix.
That's why I would agree with @Dewbakuk (for the start) to keep the first concept angular, as this is what most of us recognize with VSF
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I think a landing gear would seriously compromise the concept. Either they are lighter than air or not - you just can't switch it on or of.
Otherwise it is SF and not VSF
Understand your objection, but will agree to disagree. The liftwood of Space 1889 COULD be compromised, and I believe the Edison rays of Aeronef could be switched off, though that is less clear to me. But you're welcome to claim them beyond VSF.
Doug
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well, everyone is of course free to not glue them on, the concept is modular anyway.....
;)
obviously none of us has yet grasped the full implication of modularity....
the only question now is which components You release first, cost related.
Any concepts yet regarding the number of components?
Bow/Aft section, deck house, keel house, propulsion nacelles, landing gear ?
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The concept of the design is a ground support aeroneff, thus the landing gear. This of course is because we want to use it in our miniatures games with all the lovely British Soldiers we have painted. See our link here http://rafm.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=598 (http://rafm.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=598)
It sounds like we will have to make them modular to keep everyone happy.
In terms of modules we picture the bow, bridge, undercarriage, landing gear and engine nacelles as modular.
Of course the guns will be separate pieces allowing different armament based on nationality or purchasers preference.
Now I can't claim to know what a 'nef is or what one's meant to look like but personally I like my airships ship-shaped, so aside from minor aesthetic issues (like you yourself mentioned, the windows), what I'm seeing here is something I'd happily do some skypirating with.
I'm OK with boat-shaped as well. I'm just stoked that someone is going to do a large scale nef kit. Hopefully I can get a few.
Thanks for the positive remarks as yes we are stoked about getting something done and available for the general public as that is our goal.
I think a landing gear would seriously compromise the concept. Either they are lighter than air or not - you just can't switch it on or of.
I think a landing gear would seriously compromise the concept. Either they are lighter than air or not - you just can't switch it on or of.
Otherwise it is SF and not VSF
In our concept you can switch it on or off, does that make us not Victorian SF but rather just SF?? I did not know this :o I believe Robar the Conquerer landed his ship to perform a kidnapping and then later for repairs, but he was forced to do that.
Thanks everyone for all the input, the artist will be coming up with a second design and we will get that out to you for a vote sooner or later.
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Pics of our "prototype" Aeroneff's in action on the weekend.
Notice the use of landing gear. They looked awesome floating above the battlefield.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_11_11_13_7_43_52_0.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_11_11_13_7_43_53_1.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_11_11_13_7_43_55_3.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/1379_11_11_13_7_43_54_2.JPG)
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I don't use landing gear on my fliers but have no problem with people having them. I just don't see the point in landing gear that retracts up into the hull when the hull is much higher than the lowest point of the ship.
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The Union Flag is still upside down on one of the nefs :o :o :o
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New concept art is posted on the rafm forum here http://rafm.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=598&p=2182#p2182
We added some walk out wings on the Bridge, made the side deck more angular, fixed the bridge windows and put the gun into the bow of the ship. Enjoy.
In our vision of the Victorian aeroneff the landing gear would not be retractable, that would be too modern and therefore not era representative.
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nose gun is a definite improvement, walk out wings too
now I understand what the side bulges were on the first concept lol
go side gun/MG casemattes on them, at least as an option
so, landing gear is a must....
how about one front spur on the keel deck and pull down the vertical stabilizers into landing gear position?
this way they are totally incorporated
something like this
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Looks better than the first draft. When I think Aeronef I think early 1900's ships + early 1900's aircraft. So any combination of bits makes me happy. I think the design as it is...is a bit too "normal". I suppose that means you've nailed the market. It looks like most of the ships in the Aeronef thread. I hope to see some departures in the future.
I'd like to see motors less cylindrical and more boxy (see Gotha V for example)
(http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/vE4729D0A/www/products/model_kitsets/32005/assembled_models/32005%201~32%20Gotha%20G.IV%20-%20Jeroen%20Veen%20NETHERLANDS%20(4).jpg)
I also like the idea of forward mounted steering sails/winglets...just for something different.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2mNZ9haKmEK4PIYhPxfSP-K_-1bk65ryTVkR7B_M2FPlZktKS)
^Something weird like that...maybe mounted under the nose etc.
Overall, a fine first effort. I can't wait to watch the progress on this.
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I also like the idea of forward mounted steering sails/winglets...just for something different.
^Something weird like that...maybe mounted under the nose etc.
Overall, a fine first effort. I can't wait to watch the progress on this.
I know they're almost rigged like sails, but something like Melnibonean's fine beast?
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg91/ikhemm/Aeronef_1.jpg)
Doug
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Precisely - I just hope to see some variations in the future. A lot of the aeronefs share a look, and it's neat, but I'm always down for a bit more variety. lol
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New concept art from the artist. Let us know what you want changed. I was thinking no landing gear on this one but he went and added it. Your thoughts?
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/67982_373598646109001_268925565_n.jpg
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(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/67982_373598646109001_268925565_n.jpg)
totally different approach I like very much - it looks very consistent
what I don't like are the wings - to "planey" and the fact that the exposed boiler looks like stolen from a train.
Does a neff need such a large boiler?
I would like to suggest removing the front landing strut with a keel that goes with the hull and extending the nacell wings into landing struts
in the style of a hydrofoil, but a bit less futuristic
(http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/6/2000x1280_2497_Hydrofoil_Steamer_2d_illustration_sci_fi_ship_pirates_picture_image_digital_art.jpg)
this google image search is actually quite full of ideas
https://www.google.de/search?q=hydrofoil+dreadnought&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Kt6gUteoIITcswb08YD4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=681 (https://www.google.de/search?q=hydrofoil+dreadnought&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Kt6gUteoIITcswb08YD4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=681)
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(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/67982_373598646109001_268925565_n.jpg)
totally different approach I like very much - it looks very consistent
I agree, I really like this one. The wings are possibly a bit too aeroplane like and add to a Pulp rather than VSF feel. I'd suggest trying out a different shape for the wings, perhaps a Di Vinci style wing or have the wing coming out less but extending further along the flank?
This doesn't strike me as a military vessel, more as a 'tramp steamer' or other working ship that has been 'up-gunned' and 'over-engined' to cope with dangerous territory. I'd be more than happy to put these in my civvy/militia fleet on Venus.
I'll buy it.*
*Subject to the usual proviso's of course, ie the end model looks good and isn't too overpriced.
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A lot better.
Loose the wings altogether and the landing struts.
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I think both concepts look too Pulp pr WWWII, rather than VSF. That may just be my opinion. I do thin kthe second one is best, but concur with the wing comments above.
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I quite fancy this concept I must say
(http://allods.wcgame.ru/data/2011-10-23/steampunk-rpg.jpg)
perhaps with a deck and turbines replaced by propeller nacelles of course, but basically something different then a flying boat...
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For VSF 8) must have boilers and propellers or solar sails or liftwood or other similar.
Military design with an exposed boiler probably not so much but for an armed merchant/pirate/etc., it would work.
For Steam Punk (SP) ::) :-[ I would say it works but since I don't like SP so you want to discount that statement. SP should have Propellers (Supplemental sails though not sure how those are supposed to work) for flight, I will give you hydro jet type drives for sailing vessels. I don't think I would accept a "Steam Jet Engines" drive...
For Diesel Punk (DP) ::) :o :-[ varieties of flight could include any of the above and possibly more. I definitely have a bias against DP so discount this statement very steeply.
It depends on where your emphasis lies and how much you evaluate my ramblings to have value. lol
Gracias,
Glenn
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A lot better.
Loose the wings altogether and the landing struts.
What he said.
Definitely the feel of a merchant class vehicle.
Like it.
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All interesting comments.
I don't know how it can't be VSF when:
1. the bridge is based off late 1800's naval war vessels, pics provided earlier in this thread :o
2. the boiler is based off a circa 1830's train engine
3. the guns are all era appropriate gatling and hotchkiss???
It is a flying boat because the boat builders are extending their service to include flying vessels and thus making what their shipyards are familiar with. :-*
The wings and engines are too advanced technologically in my mind, I have asked the artist to make them bulky and clunky with more rivets and I will send him to this post.
I already commented on the landing gear.
Thanks for your input all, you just seem really hard to please. No offense, but really you don't seem to want this product, with many people preferring to use existing models of submarines. Am I wrong?
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I think You are wrong
from what I understand, many posters in this thread expressed interest, and offered their input.
Because if not interested noone would post?
so if You decide to let the future customers contribute, don't take it personal if people appear "hard to please".
I am convinced that everyone has a different concept in mind and it would be impossible to make something that appeals to all, so You'll have to come up with a good idea. The market is there, I am sure
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Well said former user, nothing personal attached. Just have a desire to make all happy.
I think it would be cool to come up with a VSF concept that everyone has input in and can therefore take pride in. It just seems we are missing the mark.
Oh well, soldier on!
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All interesting comments.
I don't know how it can't be VSF when:
1. the bridge is based off late 1800's naval war vessels, pics provided earlier in this thread :o
2. the boiler is based off a circa 1830's train engine
3. the guns are all era appropriate gatling and hotchkiss???
Pretty sure I said I liked it and would buy it ;)
I commented that the wings added to the pulp feel, the reason for that feel is that it gives the impression of a tramp steamer and they are a staple of the pulp genre. That doesn't mean they aren't also suitable for a late Victorian period, far from it, I'd be happy to use it.
Whatever you decide to do with the wings and landing gear, don't have blank location areas for them to glue onto, that way the people that don't want them can leave them off.
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I really like both concepts, especially the first one. Will likely buy a couple of the first and one of the second to use for SP1889 games.
Mike D
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Mitchel, if the goal is to please everyone...go ahead and give up now. Ain't gonna happen.
You'll end up with three kinds of customers:
1) People who buy it and build it as-is.
2) People who will not buy it.
3) People who will buy it and kit-bash it...turning it into whatever they want.
All of your concepts are fine and will likely be successful. Do they appeal 100% to everybody? No, and that's impossible anyway. Don't fret about it.
PS: This is partially why I suggested making at least part of the kits modular. If you release 2-3 different designs and some parts can be swapped you'll attract even more customers. You'll still get guys who take submarine kits and then mix them with your aeronef kit anyway! lol
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This is partially why I suggested making at least part of the kits modular. If you release 2-3 different designs and some parts can be swapped you'll attract even more customers.
This
and also the problem with the 2nd design, because the boat body is not modular, it's a boat with things attached to it. That's why I offered the body variation examples
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As the fellow that started the thread, I'll be the first to say the criticism seemed negative to me at first, as well.
So let me offer my apologies, to all who commented, at my misunderstanding. Absolutely, pages of comment does indicate strong interested, indeed!
Along with, my sincere thanks! Plenty of reservations mentioned mirrored some of my own, along with a few diametrically opposed views. lol
Doug
PS In business, EVERYONE is a 'potential' customer; just haven't had the right pitch. :D
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Not quite an aeroneff but at least a flyer. This is concept art from our Airship Pirates Miniatures line. Any thoughts?
http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/8369_12_12_13_7_24_09.jpg (http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/15/8369_12_12_13_7_24_09.jpg)
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Not bad, only a couple of niggles ;)
It has no real way to land or take off other than crashing to the ground and throwing itself off a cliff edge. If it's not going to have rear legs then the tail needs to be longer and muscular so that it can at least get it's wings off the ground without falling on it's face.
It look like it has wings like a bat, which wouldn't normally have a gap between the wings and the body. So the harness wouldn't fit around the body like that. If the wing design has gaps in it then I'd suggest making them a bit more obvious.
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It look like it has wings like a bat, which wouldn't normally have a gap between the wings and the body. So the harness wouldn't fit around the body like that. If the wing design has gaps in it then I'd suggest making them a bit more obvious.
Harness isn't really straps, more rigid bands that 'hook' on. I think Barbarella had a rig like that... ;)
Sorry, all of the 'niggles' bother me hugely, and in the end, while it might be slightly usable in a lost continent campaign, I can't get over looking at it and saying 'fantasy'.
Doug
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The Aeroneff drawing in 3D render has been started. This is a good start!
You can see how it can be modular and it doesn't look too, too naval ship in the air at all.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/8369_03_02_14_3_41_59.jpg)
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excellent, this is starting to look like business now :-*
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Excellent. Rivet count please ;)
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Rivet count is zero at this point ;) We are still laying down the hull and boilers as it were.
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I would 110% buy this for $50 (or even $60).
In reading this thread, one very important aspect has not been commented on, and I guess taken for granted it will be right from the get-go. That is, since this is 25mm size, then you need to make sure it fits 28mm figures or just a tad larger (32mm) as that means when they are mounted on bases and such. This also means under any overhangs on the model.
Plus, a very BIG important item, is that everyone figures are suppose to be placed on the decks, that the width will allow *Based* figures that will accommodate about 3/4-inch width of a base. Therefore, I would recommend allowing a minimum of 1-inch (or 1.5 inches) anywhere a figure is to be placed (i.e., between housing and railings, gun mounts and railings, etc.). Remember, some gamers have fat fingers, and you need to make it relatively easy to get in/out with figures.
For me, I play Space 1889, so VSF aspects with regard to appearance (boiler, liftwood, etc.) is much more important.
Hope the above helps.
Regards,
Bob Giglio
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Excellent points, and ones those of us who kit-bash learn all too hard. lol
Doug