Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Col.Stone on May 29, 2008, 01:07:41 PM
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I've decided to finish my zorro-project but i need some help finding the right colors for my Mexican soldiers, iirc correctly they're really spanish in the show, but i got the Artizan mexicans since they're imho the nicest opponents for the Fox :D
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Zorro is roughly the 1830s and 1840s, right? If so, It is usually a blue uniform with red cuffs and turnbacks and blue or white pants for infantry IIRC. Osprey has a book on the Mexican army in the Elite(!) series.
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somewhere there yeah :D
Those colors match my childhood memories pretty good, thanks :)
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Most adaptations of Zorro seem to put it in the 1820s, but have California still as a Spanish possession, which is a little mixed-up if my history is correct. But it is Pulp, after all, so one needn't really worry about that.
I'm not sure if the original novel "The Curse of Capistrano" actually states the date, or to what political entity California belongs at the time. There is talk of "The Governor", but presumably there would be a governor in charge both as a Spanish colony and as part of Mexico. Maybe they're talking about Arnie? :)
The Antonio Banderas/Anthony Hopkins movies are set in the 1840s.
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By the way, The Curse of Capistrano is available online here:
http://thenostalgialeague.com/olmag/mcculley-index.html (http://thenostalgialeague.com/olmag/mcculley-index.html)
So someone can read it if they like and tell us if it mentions the date anywhere.
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Your best bet is to look at The Texas War of Independence/Alamo period as these are the figures that Artizan has designed.
Osprey do an Alamo book and the plates are pretty good. Aaron is spot on with his basic uniform details.
The shako plume could be red for Grenados (grenadiers) Green for Cazadores(light infantry/sharpshooters) or Red/white/Green tricolour for fusileers. Trousers would be dark blue with red stripe, mid blue with red stripe or white cotton.
Equipment belts are white leather, black cartridge box and bayonet scabbard.
Shoes either black Brogans or, sandals.
If you want more info drop me a PM. I have a sizeable collection of books on Mexican uniforms of this period. :)
You maybe interested to know I am producing a range of figures which include Zorro both mounted and dismounted. I am also doing mounted and dismounted Mexican Presidial cavalry. These guys are the classic Zorro enemies in blue tunics with wide brimmed black hats with white bands.
Zorro is being sculpted as I write this and the Mexicans will be following later in the autumn. There will be a fat Sargento, dashing officer and three/four basic troopers all woth foot and mounetd variants.
Following the cavalry will be civilians including a governor, his beautiful daughter etc. :)
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Thank you all very much :)
Malamute, will the figures be close to artizan-size?
I'll probably have these guys finished sometime this autumn and i know myself good enough to know i'll want more stuff then :D
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Poly is indeed correct California was part of Spain until (I think )1825 when Mexico won its independence. It was then part of Mexico until the 1840's, becoming an American state after the Mexican/American war.
You could play Zorro with either Spanish or Mexican governors. The uniforms would be broadly the same for either. The Presidial cavalry uniform was basically the same from the 1750's - 1850's.
Mexican army uniforms changed so frequently during the 1820's/1830's/1840's that pretty much anything goes. The biggest uniform difference was the bell top shako during the 20's - 30's changing to stove top shako during the 1840's in time for the Mexican /American War.
Poly is also correct about the Banderas movie with the beginning happening at the end of Spanish occupation with Hopkins Zorro fighting Presidial troops and then moving forward to 1840s with the classic stove top shako look.
Sorry I have been wittering away, are you bored yet? lol
You can tell I love this period of history :)
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Thank you all very much :)
Malamute, will the figures be close to artizan-size?
I'll probably have these guys finished sometime this autumn and i know myself good enough to know i'll want more stuff then :D
Oh yes they will be compatible. :)
You are also going to love the Zorro figure. I don't want to spoil the surprise, but suffice it to say he will look spectacular. My sculptor has come up trumps with this one and he will have a mounted version too. :D
Most of the figures will have dismounted and mounted versions as I see this period played out as a small or large scale skirmish game.
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Great, mounted/dismounted figures are exactly what you need for the type of 19th century-games i like :D
Not bored at all, i like the zorro "myth" an the mexican/spanish bit of american history has always been something i'd like to know more about :)
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According to that bastion of knowledge, Wikipedia, Mexico declared independence in 1810, which resulted in a war that lasted until 1821, when there was a brief period of Imperial Rule (by a Mexican emperor). A republican constitution was declared in 1824 (the date sometimes shown on the flag of the Alamo defenders). Then we have the complicated constitutional struggles that seem to have carried on for much of the rest of the century.
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According to that bastion of knowledge, Wikipedia, Mexico declared independence in 1810, which resulted in a war that lasted until 1821, when there was a brief period of Imperial Rule (by a Mexican emperor). A republican constitution was declared in 1824 (the date sometimes shown on the flag of the Alamo defenders). Then we have the complicated constitutional struggles that seem to have carried on for much of the rest of the century.
Yeah, You are probably correct I did say I was not sure on my dates, but who cares what Wikipedia says anyway lol
Here's a photo or two of the classic Mexican Presidial troops:
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/reyes.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/sgtgarcia.jpg)
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I forgot to mention that courtesy of the History Channel I learned that Zorro was based on an actual bandito, Joaquin Murrieta. I'm sure between his real exploits and those of the fictional zorro one could quite easily come up with a nice little supplement / scenario booklet for Gloire or a similar small scale game.
Malamute, I could really go for a nice little Zorro line. Any pictures to share yet?
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Malamute, I could really go for a nice little Zorro line. Any pictures to share yet?
Sorry, not yet mate, My sculptor has just started the dismounted Zorro, to be followed by the mounted version next month then the Mexican cavalry.
Realistically they probably won't be available to buy until Christmas time.
As a taster the Zorro will come with several options to customise the look of the figure. His costume wil be very similar to the Antonio Banderas version( I liked the embroidered hat!) The mounted version will be on a rearing horse. :)
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here's another Real life zorro, a proper adventurer =)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lamport
little supplement / scenario booklet for Gloire or a similar small scale game.
That sounds like a great idea :)
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Thanks Malamute. Gives me some incentive to clear my painting backlog by Christmas then!
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Wasn't looking to correct you, Malamute, I just sorta wanted to find out for my own satisfaction. I had a dim memory of Texian rebels carrying a Mexican tricolour with "1824" emblazoned on it, referring to the date of the republic's constitution. This is what the rebels were supposedly originally fighting for, rather than independence as such.
Well, that's what I read somewhere, anyhow.
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Wasn't looking to correct you, Malamute, I just sorta wanted to find out for my own satisfaction. I had a dim memory of Texian rebels carrying a Mexican tricolour with "1824" emblazoned on it, referring to the date of the republic's constitution. This is what the rebels were supposedly originally fighting for, rather than independence as such.
Well, that's what I read somewhere, anyhow.
No worries mate. :)
Yes, the Texians at the Alamo were not fighting for Independence from Mexico. They were figthing against the abolition of the 1824 constitution by General Santa Anna. The declaration came sometime later during the seige. There is speculation that the defenders never even knew about a move to independence.
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The Virtual Armchair General has recently released a book called 'The Mexican Soldier 1837-1847'. It's $40 US + p for a hardcopy or $25 US + p for a pdf on CD. It is apparently an updated reprint of Joseph Hefter's 1958 classic, now with 21 colour plates.
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Good Book that Hefter one. :)
Here's one of his soldados (Sargento I think with the fringed epaulettes)from the Alamo period.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/Mexican.jpg)