Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: gringo on November 18, 2013, 07:56:59 AM
-
Gents
just to pre-advise Gringo40s will be releasing the first figures in what
will be a extensive range of Mesoamerican Aztecs in 28mm to
compliment the exsisting Mayans already done.
The range will be all encompasing and will include allies( reluctant!)
and enemy tribes. the conquistadors will also be added to.
while other tribes like the Mapuchi and forest indians are on the list
these are the most logical step to take in increasing the range
effectively
i hope to post greens and finished painted figures soon :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfiguinres.com
-
Same sculptor, Ged? (As the Mayans).
-
indeed Richard want to keep the fluidity!! ;)
-
Keeping an eye on this thread :)
cheers
James
-
well done James ;)....
-
Have to say that I had a chance to look at your Mayans at Warfare and was well impressed. ;)
I feel that I should point out that I do not make an effort to look at naked men usually ::)
Look forward to seeing the Aztecs.
Paul
-
many thanks Paul
i hasten to add these guys will all be respectable
and suitably attired!! :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
-
many thanks Paul
i hasten to add these guys will all be respectable
and suitably attired!! :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
Self-deprecating humor alert!
lol
That should increase sales in North America!
Whew, I almost used a ;) there! Close call...
Gracias,
Glenn
-
now now Glenn be good!!!!!!1 o_o :-* :o 8) :D
but no ;) lol
-
i know this is an Aztec thread but just thought you might
like to see my New male Jaguar to be used originally in
my Mayan range ....and as the Aztecs had Jaguar Warriors
this will be the unskinned variety :D
and just the green at the moment
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.bloghspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
excuse the Jaeger Jaguar hunt!! ;D
-
Have to say that I had a chance to look at your Mayans at Warfare and was well impressed. ;)
I feel that I should point out that I do not make an effort to look at naked men usually ::)
Look forward to seeing the Aztecs.
Paul
You're such a tease, very naughty.
Keep it up
Cecil
-
Gents
looking to have some painted samples
in about 10 days.........
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
Hi Ged, while your online have you received my pm regarding the Maximillian book. If not here's the link http://www.thewcp.co.uk/shop.php?CatID=238
Cheers Jeff
-
thanks Jeff i have indeed.most helpfull of you
good to meet you at Warfare
the booklet looks neat
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
That Jaguar looks good Ebob's work ?
Cant wait to see the new Aztecs
Mark
-
thanks Mark...much appreciated...looking forward myself!!
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
We shouldn't be surprised when we say "Gringos have done it again!" Another range? Great. I've only just got over the shock/pleasure of seeing the Murat figure (and hopefully new Napoleonic range), and here we have the Aztecs released. What a great jaguar Ged - really well sculpted and should be a great welcome addition to those who've seen "Apocalypto".
Don't know where you get these great sculptors from - but keep the great figures coming
Best wishes with the Aztecs DaveL
-
thanks Davel very much....working away on getting the New Range
ready...........
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
Just to advise i should have some shots of the initial pre-production
Aztecs ready soon..well at least a few painted up!! :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
Angels lovely interpretation of the Jaguar Warrior
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
and another shot!
-
and more........
-
and a fourth and final pic :o
-
Ged,
Sorry to be the lone voice of dissent, but are your figures also going to come with proper maquahuitls?
-
bowman
good to hear from you.......a lot of the weapons are being done at present would you like to post a picture of what you consider to be
proper maquahuitis.......size wize im doing a few lenght wise..happy to view your findings!! no lone voice of dissent at all...happy to listen..and add a new version !! ;)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
A quick Google search will reveal hundreds of examples. Here's a start:
http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/artefacts/maquahuitl
-
thanks Bowman.all links appreciated................
:)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
It may be too late to modify the sculpts, but the hole at the handle end of the weapon's shaft had a leather or sisal strap that went through it and then around the warriors' wrist. This was a further precaution against dropping the weapon during the battle.
If you are making separate weapons, please consider the tepoztopilli, or slashing spear. Here are some high level warriors armed with tepoztopilli from the Codex Mendoza:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Codex_Mendoza_folio_67r_bottom.jpg
Looking forward to your output in 2014. Also, any idea if you will be getting a distributor for North America? Happy Holidays.
-
It may be too late to modify the sculpts, but the hole at the handle end of the weapon's shaft had a leather or sisal strap that went through it and then around the warriors' wrist. This was a further precaution against dropping the weapon during the battle.
If you are making separate weapons, please consider the tepoztopilli, or slashing spear. Here are some high level warriors armed with tepoztopilli from the Codex Mendoza:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Codex_Mendoza_folio_67r_bottom.jpg)
Looking forward to your output in 2014. Also, any idea if you will be getting a distributor for North America? Happy Holidays.
-
If you are going to be particular then it would be better to give proper and full text descriptions rather than vague google links. Dimensions, number of blades, thongs and use of, etc.
For example, that first link seems to show two types of weapon. Should it have 3 or 4 blades on each side, or maybe both are acceptable?
-
good thinking Sir Barnaby.......to be honest i will get quite a few types done .the long ..the short..and the fat!! :D
im sure the weapons dumps used by the Aztecs contained all sizes and
shapes and various woods as other tribes paid tribute as only they could.
still ir would be good to have as may veried types of weapons ..the
"hockey sticks" as well as all the unusal semi-documented types
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
and a stunning paintjob of an eagle warrior again by Angel :o
-
good thinking Sir Barnaby.......to be honest i will get quite a few types done .the long ..the short..and the fat!! :D
im sure the weapons dumps used by the Aztecs contained all sizes and
shapes and various woods as other tribes paid tribute as only they could.
still ir would be good to have as may veried types of weapons ..the
"hockey sticks" as well as all the unusal semi-documented types
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
I think all are right, there is not right and wrong of it, the maqahitl could be in various lengths, one was almost halberd like and it depended upon the fighting style of the warrior (where more adept) whilst for commoners they had armouries in each district so may depend upon the armourer/weapon maker.
It is the classic weapon and I think Bowman was alluding polietly that the axe isnt something that has been seen really in the codeces (not GW mind you ;) )
Lovely looking figures btw 8)
Perhaps the best known ancient Aztec weapon is the maquahuitl (macahuitl). This is sometimes compared to the sword, and it was a powerful, close contact weapon. Like the European sword, they came in two varieties - one handed and two handed. Made from wood (usually oak), they were about 3-4" wide and 3-4' long. The two handed versions might be slightly wider and as tall as a person. Embedded in the edges was obsidian (volcanic stone) or flint.
The maquahuitls were incredibly strong, and the Spanish claimed they could chop the head off a horse with one blow. They were sharp and the Aztecs knew how to use them. They could not thrust like a sword, and so they lent themselves to a different type of warfare.
The picture of a maquahuitl is from The Book of the Sword by Richard Burton. Most likely the maquahuitl usually had simpler grips.
Clubs
The maquahuitl could be used as a club, but other types of clubs were used. The cuauhololli was a mace made of wood with a ball at the end. It could be used to smash and crush. Various other types of clubs were commonly used, sometimes just made of wood, other times with embedded stone as the maquahuitl.
Spears and lances
Another common ancient Aztec weapon was the spear. They were extremely sharp, and sometimes over 7 feet long. They didn't have a small point as many spears you may be familiar with, but a blade a foot wide made of smaller stone blades. Theses spears were known to pierce the Spanish armour, and were sharp enough that the warriors could use them to shave. They are called tepoztopilli. Spears were used in Mexico long before the Aztec empire.
Huitzauhqui
A Huitzauhqui was an ancient Aztec weapon, that was essentially a large wooden club, with a solid body which featured the head and the handle. Another melee weapon of the Aztec the Huitzauhqui was used in close quarters and was typically larger than the Macuahuiti, and in many cases had similar obsidian blades attached
Quauhololli
The Quauhololli was essentially a mace or club, typically made from either wood or a combination of wood and stone. The Quauhololli was a melee weapon used by the Aztec and featured a curved handle for ease of striking, and with the mace head, was able to strike foes with solid force.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LBa1G12KyTM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Cracking thread on the subject here
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4928
-
bowman
im afraid i didnt hear the sonic boom as the jet flew overhead on bowmans polite comment thought he was alluding to the "broadsword"
thanks for the helpfull commnets on the magahiti as mentioned i will
do as many weapons as i can no doubt a few "suspect ones will creep in
not through lack of effort i assure you ;)
these figures are only pro-forma as i have had some altered /trimmed down and re-jigged ......they are being worked on as i speak :D
pleased your happy with the figures........
regards]
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Do a search for +macuahuitl +armeria in google, enjoy, read :)
-
cdm
cheers for that ....the spear "Tepoztopilli" is intersting a great shame
the last Macuahuitl/maguahuitl was destroyed in the fire in Madrid.
the square Aztec shield is of interest.not seen that before
still building my images ..two handed briadswords.......moving on to the
axes now ..and any other unusal weapons i can find :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
For example, that first link seems to show two types of weapon. Should it have 3 or 4 blades on each side, or maybe both are acceptable?
You are assuming a level of uniformity of weapons manufacturing that did not occur in what were esentially stone age cultures. The number of blades were also dependent on the size of the maquahuitl......something also not of uniform consideration.
The new photograph shows an appropriate weapon, as opposed to the previous figures.
-
Do a search for +macuahuitl +armeria in google, enjoy, read :)
But surely these examples were not indicative of the actual weapons. Both weapons look unusually ornate, as befitting a gift or "showpiece" weapon. Plus, the armeria tepoztopilli was only 3 feet long.
-
all three shots together on one thread........ :D
-
To be honest i will get quite a few types done .the long ..the short..and the fat!! :D
Are you beginning to wish you'd never started this Ged? ;)
-
trouble at mill with posting pics back to the drawing board
at present compiling a list of all possible weapons used
by the Aztecs based on every source i can find and with
the ilustrious and illustrated help of my LAF mates...getting
there..
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
question the copper headed axes mentioned thoughout the many narratives ive read and "bought "/traded by some of the conquistadors
as "cheap gold" these intrique me as there does seem to be a gap
the "axe" knowledge of the period and as many of the rank and file
are supposed to have used them..hence my take on the axe in the hand of the eagel warrior....... ???
-
trouble at mill
Ay lad. Call out t'yeomanry ;)
-
But surely these examples were not indicative of the actual weapons. Both weapons look unusually ornate, as befitting a gift or "showpiece" weapon. Plus, the armeria tepoztopilli was only 3 feet long.
My point:
Instead of pointing vaguely to google, which no doubt has been done already, why not provide the appropriate textual descriptions of what you think would be accurate representations rather than popping up after they are made to criticize them.
-
Richard
hello matey..............i dont mind and as you know about me
i always make 100pct effort in my ranges which as you also
know cost an arm and a leg to produce...but hey im in it for
the fun of it and will happily take on board all advise but will
do what i want in the end to produce as effective a range as i can
and the guys are only trying to help!! :D ;D :o :-* o_o
would love that rogue Aztec IF you set a second!! 8)
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
-
He's undercoated, as of this morning... :D
-
yippee.... :o..........excellente as they say in Espanya!!
mucho gratias.this fig will suit your colurfull and exuberant
style methinks!
-
Lookinmg forward to seeing the captains paintwork
on the axes, they were often tokens of rank and what you wil see will be warriors of other nations using them too so I wouldnt worry about the chaps having other weapons.
a couple of items here
(http://www.runtimedna.com/images/D/product_image_full_4043.jpg)
these are similar to Tarascan axe heads
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7207/axes2.jpg)
Oh and Richard you can fill your boots on colour for the Eagle warriors and Jaguar warrior you dont need to keep them in natural colours I think CDM still has his papers on the warrior uniforms etc
http://www.chronofus.net/wargames/aztecs/AztecShields.pdf
After painting 350 + of the buggers 6-7 years ago I dont think I could face doing any more ;D however these look lovely Ged :D 8)
-
Lowtardog
wow :o
thats a reply and a half........been immersed in all the details on the many types of warrior castes within castes themselves. may need to print this lot off.many thanks for your efforts.....i guess the Aztecs were VERY
complex dress wise and only they knew the nuances of an extra lip ornament in jade or a funkier hairstyle..better banner etc..
i guess the "paper" side would be replaced after combat and new feathers etc issued..as they ranked up..or not as the case may be
im sure i may be able to tempt you with the odd figure!! again thanks ;)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Oh and Richard you can fill your boots on colour for the Eagle warriors and Jaguar warrior you dont need to keep them in natural colours
That's lucky ;)
Thanks Karl...
Maybe he'll be done by Christmas day, if I get some time over the next 24 hours or so... ::)
-
No ned to thank me Ged, CDM who posts on here has written all of this and much more he Bowman Neil Burt and I have had a lot of discussions over the years as Neil and I planned out a demo game of Tenochtitlan many years ago, those two chaps are a wealth of knowledge on Aztec warfare and military doctrine etc :D
-
That's lucky ;)
Thanks Karl...
Maybe he'll be done by Christmas day, if I get some time over the next 24 hours or so... ::)
hehe bags of time chap...bags of time ;D ;)
-
Karl
actually im considering putting a game on at Salute maybe 2015/6
which will be from the Aztec point of view.......just need to get
that canoe design done to the best of my ability!!....i have a few
other ideas as well which i may well put forward later......
Richard
painting an Aztec is better then wearing that Santa Outfit again!! eh ;)
-
........why not provide the appropriate textual descriptions of what you think would be accurate representations rather than popping up after they are made to criticize them.
I only saw the figure when Ged published the picture on this forum. I asked if it was possible to get the figure with a maquahuitl. I thought I was pretty forthcoming when Ged asked for pictorial representations to help with his Mayan figures.
-
<<You are assuming a level of uniformity of weapons manufacturing that did not occur in what were essentially stone age cultures. The number of blades were also dependent on the size of the maquahuitl......something also not of uniform consideration.>>
By the late Aztec period there was a history of making the same weapon for centuries and the manufacture being family based dynasties who were all quartered in the same district and whose life purpose was to make weapons only, so let's assume they wake up every day and every generation and reinvent the 'wheel.' I don't particularly see any major change in form as the function and materials didn't change, aside from customising changes necessary for the individual user's size and swing to balance the weapon for combat. The mechanics of thickness of wood and seating of blades is unlikely to go through much refinement by the late period after extensive testing in the field.
If you strip the pretty colours off the Armeria images, they are basic weapons. If you find it confusing the Aztecs used a short stabbing spear, it might be worth reconsidering ideas about their combat methods, reading, and making enlightened considerations of the evidence. If the evidence doesn't suit the theory, discarding the evidence is always certainly an option.
Our view of 'stone age' and the Aztecs are clearly markedly different. For a society where advancement even for nobles only occurs through mortal combat, the weapon is THE key to status within society. To ascribe to it a *whatever* attitude betrays it's essential function as a basis to the society as a whole.
At the end of the day if Ged wants them to wield light sabres, I'm all for it :)
-
Chronufus, with all due respect:
<<You are assuming a level of uniformity of weapons manufacturing that did not occur in what were essentially stone age cultures. The number of blades were also dependent on the size of the maquahuitl......something also not of uniform consideration.>>
By the late Aztec period there was a history of making the same weapon for centuries and the manufacture being family based dynasties who were all quartered in the same district and whose life purpose was to make weapons only, so let's assume they wake up every day and every generation and reinvent the 'wheel.' I don't particularly see any major change in form as the function and materials didn't change, aside from customising changes necessary for the individual user's size and swing to balance the weapon for combat. The mechanics of thickness of wood and seating of blades is unlikely to go through much refinement by the late period after extensive testing in the field.
That may be true but that is not what was stated. The various cultures from Mesoamerica that used obsidian edged broadswords (as you well know, the maquahuitl predates the Aztecs) precludes any uniformity of construction. The fellow asked how many cherts of obsidian were in a maquahuitl and I was responding to that.
If you strip the pretty colours off the Armeria images, they are basic weapons.
Well, if you strip the fancy engraving from the King's suit of armour in the museum, it is also a basic suit of armor. The fact that the Ameria weapons were ornately decorated makes my point.
If you find it confusing the Aztecs used a short stabbing spear, it might be worth reconsidering ideas about their combat methods, reading, and making enlightened considerations of the evidence. If the evidence doesn't suit the theory, discarding the evidence is always certainly an option.
I'll ignore the needless jibe. The sources I've come across indicate that the Ameria spear is "atypical" in it's length. Certainly the historical descriptions of the tepoztopilli in my books indicate that they were usually longer. This is reinforced by the illustrations in my copy of the Codex Mendoza and others. From the original writings, we also know that the Chinanteca employed long tepoztopilli of up to 21 feet in length! However, they are also atypical, and seem to be unique to the cultures of the Oaxaca valley. If a 3 foot tepoztopilli was not commonplace, then I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.
Source Achille Jubinal, La Armería Real ou collection des principales pièces de la Galerie d'Armes Anciennes de Madrid, 1846
Our view of 'stone age' and the Aztecs are clearly markedly different. For a society where advancement even for nobles only occurs through mortal combat, the weapon is THE key to status within society. To ascribe to it a *whatever* attitude betrays it's essential function as a basis to the society as a whole.
Perhaps, but I'm using the typical anthropological definition here. It is a description of technological development only and has nothing to do with social organization and military advancement. In the absence of large scale smelting and metallurgical technology, "stone age" or perhaps "volcanic glass age" would be a suitable description. The Tarascans and the Inca were the cultures that were just starting out in metal edged weaponry. As to the "whatever" attitude, I'm not sure what you mean. Unless it corresponds to your comment below. ;)
At the end of the day if Ged wants them to wield light sabres, I'm all for it :)
Sorry to derail the thread, but my preference is for the warrior with the maquahuitl. Others may prefer otherwise.
Merry Christmas to all
-
Gentlemen, please. Your erudite discussion is enlightening, but please leave jibes, rebukes, tlatzontectlis, tetotocamītls and other barbed weapons at the door :)
Unlike certain other sites, expert fisticuffs is not an approved sport here at Lead Adventure.
Do feel free to rip seven bells out of each other (and Ged) on PM.
Happy Christmas to all of you, by the way. (Ah the season of goodwill... ;))
Richard
-
Lol, Richard.
(Was I just called "erudite"?)
-
And finally...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/577_26_12_13_12_45_15_1.jpg)
More pics here... http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=61593.0
-
<snip>
Unlike certain other sites, expert fisticuffs is not an approved sport here at Lead Adventure.
<snip>
Oh. My. :o
Have I wandered on to TMP? ;) lol
Seriously, all good information but as pointed out this is a forum for discussing war games. It is nice to get things historically accurate as reasonably possible (well, Fantasy, VSF, Future Wars, Gothic Horror, Pulp, Call of Cthulhu, Weird Wars, and Post-Apocalyptic Tales maybe not so much,) but please let's not get too hung up on details on the miniatures because they are essentially just pretty 3D counters in the final analysis.
Gracias,
Glenn
-
Personally, I salute true expertise in any period or culture of history. (As long as it doesn't lead to a disturbance in the force :))
So let's get back on topic with Ged's splendid new range of figures.
However accurate they are or aren't, I can vouch for their excellent quality and wonderful paintability. Big, bold sculpts, bursting with character. Well done Ged, keep 'em coming.
:)
-
Richard
WOW......... :o :o :o :o
what a fab looking Aztec
you done us both proud
thats made my boxing day
cheers matey
best regards
Ged
ps appreciate all the support!! ;)
-
new Aztec pics soon............... :)
and some of the finished figures (greens0
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
wild boar headed Aztec by Angel.... :o...
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
-
and another :-*
-
OOPS
-
Lovely figure & I see you have almost got the hang of posting pictures too :)
Well done
Mark
-
Thanks Mark.....glad you like the figures
and another
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
-
update ref Aztecs
a huge pile of greens have now arrived for the Aztecs
and will be sent to Griffin today...with more underway
release date for Salute 2014 (hopefully) in fact more then
likely!! more conquistadors underway as well
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Some more pre-production pics to follow
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.grimgo40s.blogspot.com
-
Submasters due back today for the Aztecs..we are getting there :)
production moulds will take about a month...then sorting the
release date
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspoit.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
Dear Boy.
I must say the range is expanding well and at a good pace.
The figs look great and a wonderful sculptor must be employed.
Once again a wonderful range of a neglected but innovative period .
Keep it up
Cecil
-
Just commissioned some more Aztecs and Conquistadors...this release
is very time consuming with the amount of weapons and shields and
troop types needed as i would like to have a substancial range of these.
more samples being sent off for painting today
:D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
just to update the thread.i hope to release my first trance of 28mm Aztecs
at Salute.possibly slightly before but will post on here first. :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
how many is a "trance" again? 15? ;D
-
close on 20 Sir Barnaby.....at least 18 at the moment....all a bit
up in the air due to the complexity of the Aztecs with banners/shields
/weapons/headdress etc :)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
just an update the Aztec production is progressing well and
i have decided to add in some "main characters" ..being sculpted
as we speak ..these should be out for Salute :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
a painted sample of one of my Eagle warrior variants
painted by the talented Angel .......
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com
-
two more 28mm preview 28mm Atec figures (plus a jaguar)
for release 12.4.2014 at Salute possibly earlier
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Amazing top notch!!!! That Jaguar is just the best!!!!
Congrats GED!!!!
-
thanks my friend Gothic line glad you like the Jaguar..hes a cool cat!! :D
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
The cat is very good.
were they used in combat or for ceremony.
-
Avi
a small bit of artistic license..it was roumoured small Jaguars
were used as pets.they were kept in the Zoo....and also
may have been used as a status symbol.............
i thought it looked interesting :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Those quachic are superb sculpts and the paint job is stunning :-* :-* :-* 8)
-
Lowtardog.many thanks for that...i was drawn to these troops as they
were really something else!!..i hope to have about 20 Aztecs now for
the Salute release...plus more conquistadors are being worked on..
;)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
They are just :o :-*, both sculpts and painting.
-
leadasbestos
your appreciation is much appreciated ;) :D
regards
ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo4s0.blogspot.com
-
Again you, Sir, with this horrid seductions! ;)
While the Subject is absolutely not on my agenda, the Minis are just lovely. :-*
And who knows, if somebody shows up with a fitting set of rules... ::)
-
Nikfu.............many thanks..now for the rules!! to complete
the temptation..................
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Don't you Dare! :P
-
keep the temptation coming Ged, especially with Mr Taylor's brush skills.
Cheers,
Helen
-
i will Helen...........more to come!!
ps hope your fully recovered now!
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
i will Helen...........more to come!!
ps hope your fully recovered now!
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
Thanks Ged, getting there.
Cheers,
Helen
-
These are excellent figures and beautifully painted.
-
thanks Hu Rhu for the vote of confidence!! :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Any deals available for those of us not able to make it to Salute? Unless a lottery win or some such thing happens, that trip is VERY unlikely... ::)
-
leadasbestos good question will give your question some thought
im sure i can come up with something for you chaps!! ;)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
more Aztec Chaps and ladies......
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Very nice brushwork, notwithstanding, the miniature.
-
thanks Helen......... ;)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Very nice indeed, the Huaxtec suit with a paint job can also be used as a priest etc. 8)
Demon suit is stonking too
-
lowtardog.thanks for that :D......i nearly painted the Huatec as a priest
may well get one done as they do look cool
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Chaps/ladies
90pct of the Aztec stock is with me ....waiting on the Jaguar and few
more Aztecs........New Aztec commision may be ready for Salute :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
just adding another Eagle warrior to the mix...........
:D
and canoes have been commisioned
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Som more pics...........
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Gorgeous Gedward.
Although I actually prefer my version of the warrior with the pig-head :D
(I'd never normally dare to say this with one of Andrew's paint jobs, because he is the creme de la creme, but on this occasion, with that particular figure, I think I might just have edged it... ;))
-
No way are those Andrew Taylor's paintjobs. Nice stuff, but not his style.
(Capt, I liked yours too! ;))
Edit: Angel someone? Great stuff!
-
young Richard
as a doff of my cap i attach your masterpiece... ;)
for the viewing pleasure of all mesoamerican buffs! :D
actually those four fearsome Aztecs are from Angel
a the shot is taken from a distance they do look abit Andrewish1
but leadasbestos is right on both counts......more mesoamericans
with Andrew at the moment to paint
cheers men
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
ps Richard theres still 3.5 weeks to Salute enough to slap painton a meso?! ??? :D
-
Aha. All becomes clear. Mind you, Angel is certainly no slouch - a very fine painter :)
Sorry Ged - still painting teams for the Lead Painters League. No more Aztecs for a while... ::)
-
Richard
no problem old chap..good luck with those teams! :D
theres always post Salute! :)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
These are fantastic!!
Interestingly I just started painting some Eureka conquistadores about 2 weeks ago. They had been in my basement for about a decade. I was thinking that I need to get some more Aztecs. Lo and behold!!
Can't wait for these to be released.
Any idea as to how well they would fit scale-wise with the Eureka's I already have?
-
They are all superb sculpts ( :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*) and I find myself drifting towards the idea of mass battles in South america against the Spanish invaders!!
Painting, from all quaters, is of course spendiferous :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
In one way at least, it's a good job I can't make it down to Salute!! She would kill me! lol
Darrell.
-
Krimso
i believe the figures match size wise but i will check this properly
when i can :D
im sure there will be enough variants to tempt you"thanks for youir
interest ;)
Darrell...............cheers matey you know it makes sense huge battles
loads of lovely coloured figures. im sure the Mrs wouldnt mind you
getting a few.............mines in tow and i hyponotise her on a daily
basis with the growing mound of release lol..she has no idea!!
best regards Ged www.gringo40s.com
-
They are all superb sculpts ( :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*) and I find myself drifting towards the idea of mass battles in South america against the Spanish invaders!!
Painting, from all quaters, is of course spendiferous :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
In one way at least, it's a good job I can't make it down to Salute!! She would kill me! lol
Darrell.
Perhaps start with flower wars with inter tirbal warfare then expand into conquest, that way you build up enough Aztecs etc to take on your Conquistadors :D
-
Your doing a fantastic job with these, I really like the fact your doing lesser known warrior types.
Keep it up
-
Lowtardog still getting to grips with the flower war scenarios theres
seems to be many coonflicting reasons for these forays into
stylised combat........was it just for the prisoners or a display
of Aztec might....interesting.... :D
Steel fist.may thanks indeed for your thimbs up i didnt realise the
complexity of the Aztec empire.......in the midst of getting banners
sorted and canoes...and just had Montezuma green sent to Griffin
..he looks stunning ....paid top dollar for him as he has to stand out :o
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
wwww.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Lowtardog still getting to grips with the flower war scenarios theres
seems to be many coonflicting reasons for these forays into
stylised combat........was it just for the prisoners or a display
of Aztec might....interesting.... :D
There are thought to be a number of reasons;
It was a ritual form of war where two enemy cities would plan battles through mutual arrangement in order to satisfy the religious needs for war captives to use in sacrificial rituals
It is also thought to be a means of training developing warriors within their military structure it may have been one way to secure promotion. This idea doesnt seem to hold up much these days
Another reason was it was used as a means of raiding against enemy states to break them down, interrupt harvest, trade etc, equating to a shock and awe, terror campaign especially when if captured you would be subject to ritual sacrifice.
By the time of the conquest, The Aztecs were not as dominant, with the Tlaxcalan and Tarascans breathing down their necks and dissent across subject/trubute nations readily evident with the defection of tribes to the conquistatodrs and nations such as the Huaxtec and Otomi fighting as mercenaries or the likely winner.
I try to equate it with the demise of the Spartan nation and the Spartiate alliance etc
-
interesting take on the events Karl ...i guess the more i read the
picture will become clearer.I summise even with or without the
Conquistadors the Aztec Empire was starting to crumble...!
with the vast array of enemies and "partially subjected" tribes
all around them im suprised they lasted so long. man to man
were they better warriors?...........or just the the Eagle/Jaguar/Hustec
(spelling) were the driving force........../.
???
-
interesting take on the events Karl ...i guess the more i read the
picture will become clearer.I summise even with or without the
Conquistadors the Aztec Empire was starting to crumble...!
with the vast array of enemies and "partially subjected" tribes
all around them im suprised they lasted so long. man to man
were they better warriors?...........or just the the Eagle/Jaguar/Hustec
(spelling) were the driving force........../.
???
In the info I sent on those draft rules, my iniital thoughts are that they were a strong federation, certainly their structure of the military made for a formidable army, the shock and awe element such as the flower war or threat of this is very much apparent as a deterrant for tribute smaller nations, city states. If you look at the Aztec Alliance it was most liklely a combination of the above and also the size of the force together with their cohesion
THE TRIPLE ALLIANCE ARMY
A Triple Alliance Army consists of any number of Xiquipillis, a Xiquipilli in turn formed from three or four Calpulli. To call out an army for the Triple Alliance the first contingents were drawn from Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan, with Tenochtitlan being the military leader of the other two and provider of the commanding general.
The Army structure is conjecture and has been devised to present a “feel” for the differing traits of Mesoamerican warfare. A Triple Alliance army is biased towards Line troops, representing a main field army and its Elite Military Orders. Missile troops are drawn exclusively from the Allied Tribute towns. The Xiquipilli structure represents a field army, . This can be substituted for any Elite order to act as a bodyguard if required. If fielding more than one Capulli or if depicting a campaign army, Line Capulli can be substituted for Allied Tribute Capullis as required, with the exception of the Elite Capulli.
Additionally, Line units can be substituted for either Priest or Pochteca units at either Xiquipilli, or Capulli for Priests, or Capulli for Pochteca. Additionally if a Priest Xiquipilli is fielded then the Elite Capulli can either be priest Elite units or regular Military Orders.
The following Capullis would have been the most common to have provided warriors for any campaign
1. Tlacochcalca, Cihuatecpan, Huitznahuac, Tlacatecpan, Yopico, Tezcacoac, Tlamatzinco, Molloco Itlillan, Chalmeca, Tzonmolco, Coatlan, Chillilico, Izquitlan, Milnahuac , Coatl Xoxouhcan
1. Texcoco was essentially split into two halves ruled by Ixtlilxochitl to the north and Cacamatzin to the south. So the army may have a Capulli form each Chiefs subjects
2. Tlacopan (Tacuba) was weaker and as such was merely an extension of Tenochtitlan so providing 1 Capulli for an army.
Allied Tribute Army
These were from a multitude of areas within the Empire and were called upon as local forces perhaps to support the Triple Alliance Field Armies or used for local duties such as garrisoning frontiers or collecting tribute etc. When fielded they will be lead by a Tlacochcalcatl or Tlacetecatl who was commonly an Aztec governor sent from Tenochtitlan. When acting in there own defence they are lead by their own Tlatoani (Chieftain). In general due to their dependency of missile troops Allied Tribute Capulli are found in support roles within Triple Alliance Xiquipilli. An Allied Tribute Xiquipilli can field an army in its own right.
This variation on the Capulli is similarly, most civilizations had suit wearers but not in such great proportions as the Triple Alliance.
This army structure represents a regional army, being weaker in Line and Military orders but heavy in light Missile units, based upon the fact that many Allies cultures were more in favour of the bow /sling than the Aztecs. As opposed to the Main Field armies these Capulli represent the forces available to the tribute states and are indicative of the smaller armies fielded against the Spanish whilst subduing the lowlands. As indicated within the Triple Alliance structure these Capullis are interchangeable with the Triple Alliance Capullis when representing a more regional or campaign army. When operating in a particular theatre of war, the local tribute towns would be required to provide troops or possibly supplies. They would be looked upon as an allied general and contingent, Regular Military Tributary Contingents were
The Four Lords of Colhuacan
Xochimilco (who held a special and senior role as a military ally)
Cuitlahuac
Mizquic
Combined peoples of the Tierra Caliente
Chalco
Cuauhtlalpan
-
I think to try and make sense of it from western eyes is very difficult as it is a supremely different culture.
I try and look at aztec armies as Dark age saxons
Huscarls - these would be more than likely your Jaguar/Otomi/Eagle warrior sects (Quachic sit outside of this and would be akin to Berserks or more likely in greek terms a sacred band or the Spartan 300)
Thegns - these are lower rank (capture rank denoted by suit types very much simplified say 4 captures and above) such as those wearing other types of war suit
Select Fyrd these would if looking at other sets of rules relate to noble and none noble warriors of lower rank/experience such as 1/2/3 capture warriors
Great Fyrd - these would be novices and genral none noble warriors - a levy if you will
The units Xiquipilli, or Capulli would be levied from the cities or districts e.g. Barrios or from tribute towns (think local colonial troops such as in the British empire armies)
I dont think they fought as either all elite warriors and then a unit of normal/ levy warriors it would be effectively a shieldwall with the higher expereinced warriors at the front and the younger less experienced at the rear, priests and leaders would be at the rear and may have performed a form of Commissar role also a focal point for holding captured enemy etc.
That is not to say that there werent eleite bodyguards or troops drawn from the eleite functions, Quachic are notable in that their role was a forlorn advance guard, ambush shock troops or a rear guard
Antoher thing to note is that the Aztecs seem from some sources to have used a manipular means of fighting where by units would be interchanged to allow recovery and refresh the ranks, this may have given them the edge in some conflicts.
When looking at other nations the volume and use of troops, the supply lines etc and the sheer number of men mauy have been factors, however they would have adopted and evolved their own tactics and in siome instacnes imitated the Aztec tactics and strategy. Fire power for Talaxcalans would have been one point.
-
Darrell...............cheers matey you know it makes sense huge battles
loads of lovely coloured figures.
Oh, it makes sense..... but when will i paint them? :'(
im sure the Mrs wouldnt mind you
getting a few.............mines in tow and i hyponotise her on a daily
basis with the growing mound of release lol..she has no idea!!
best regards Ged www.gringo40s.com
lol I'll buy a Paul McKenna book ASAP lol
Darrell.
-
Darrell
dont want to alarm you but i bought
his DVD on weight loss listened for
30minutes to all the whale sounds
and his sonorous deep voice...visualised
palm trees and azure blue sea
and woke up hungry!!lol
-
some more aztecs
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
here they are.....
-
When I get through my Conquistadors in the near future I plan to start digging in to the Aztecs. Looking forward to adding some great models from this line!! Any ideas (other than the Osprey I already have) on good painting resources?
-
krimso
many thanks indeed for the suport
we have some real Aztec experts on
here such as Lowtardog who along with
other chaps have posted earlier on this
thread .happy to help if you need info though :D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
probably your best short term bet is the Ian Heath ;)
foundry book.armies of the 16th century bit of a mesoamerican bible!!
-
working on getting the last of the Aztec production figures into
moulds ready for Salute for this huge release....
My site will be be updated a few days before the big event so punters
will have an idea whats on offer..so last minute sculpts are being sorted
out at the moment... 8)
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
That's great news.
Keep it up
Cecil
-
got a canoe on the go at the moment...hopefully for Salute
and the last remaining Aztecs :)...
regards
Ged
www,gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Looking good so far :)
Hope you have a great Salute
Mark
-
thanks Mark
much obliged!!
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
jaguar Warrior.New painted sample
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
:D :-*
-
thanks Chris
are you going to Salute old chum?? ;D
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
thanks Chris
are you going to Salute old chum?? ;D
Probly, if I can get Nick's Comanche finished and make him pay for the day :D
-
good man........see ya there!! :D
best regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www/gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
ref Aztecs
just taken a huge delivery of figures
i hope to have them all on my site just
prior to Salute
:D
cheers
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Gents
jsut to notify you most of my Aztecs are up on my site this is not the
finished placement as some adjustsments need to be made today
please bear with me
:D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
more figures being added and my site guy will sort as soon as hes able
the vast majority of the figures are on now! :D
regards
Ged
www.gring040s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Good to see the Aztecs horde is growing :)
Hope you had a great salute, sorry I couldn't get down for a chat this year :(
Mark
-
I saw these at Salute awesome models,some of the best I saw there.
Ran out of money or would of bought all 20 I think you said !
Will have to order some
-
I think you need to check your historical accuracy for the Aztec in those last couple pics... ::)
-
I think you need to check your historical accuracy for the Aztec in those last couple pics... ::)
Quite! :D
Ged, the painting on the Meso-Americans is stunning as per usual :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
-
Mark
cheers matye.....your assistance and presence was missed!! ;)
Leadasbestos..10/10 for observation ...and succinct comment :D
Underbuck......not sure what to say old chap o_o
Darrell............thanks old sport.....we aim to please!! :o :-* :o :-* :-*
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogsportcom
-
waitng on final update on the Aztecs then all codes at present will be up
:D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
-
Not sure how he got on that last post lol deleted lol
-
Unclebuck
i was mildy confused ...still funny!! ;D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
ps waiting on rest of my AZTECS to be posted to my site!
-
and another few Aztecs in case the thread was missed
:D
regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com
www.gringo40s.blogspot.com
www.gjmfigurines.com