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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: AndrewBeasley on December 23, 2013, 09:46:11 AM

Title: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question - mine are too wide!
Post by: AndrewBeasley on December 23, 2013, 09:46:11 AM: Being of a certain age :o , I remember building the Airfix kits complete with scenic bases (e.g. the jungle outpost) and was very surprised to see these 're-introduced' by Amera Plastic Mouldings (http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=a) with the Airfix name.

Though these Airfix bases are more scenic dioramas than for wargaming, it make me wonder if folk still base buildings for use on the table or not? Traditionally, I used thick plasti-card as a plain base with minimal scenery stuck to them (maybe a simple path or just flock) but I have seen the 15mm 'townscapes' now being created by Total Battle Miniatures (http://www.totalbattleminiatures.com/tilesandroads/tiles/75mm.html).

If you do base - could you show a picture or two?
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 23, 2013, 10:19:28 AM: It depends on the type of building model, its structural rigidity and the intended environment.

For "flimsy" structures, especially those made either from scale plastic kits or scratch from XPS foam, I generally add bases to increase their resilience. Sometimes, if an external base is inappropriate (e.g. my Bruegelburgh port houses), I put in an internal spacer for that purpose.

Examples of external bases:

(http://www.displacedminiatures.com/images/img.1197757474284.JPG)

(http://www.displacedminiatures.com/images/img.1197757618454.JPG)

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20ImagiNations/SCENERY_RESIDENTIAL_DETACHED_HOUSE_zpseba4c251.jpg)

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20ImagiNations/Cheetah_Station_Building_2_zps448ad1d7.jpg)

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20ImagiNations/Cheetah_Station_Watchtower_zps646bee9d.jpg)

(http://www.displacedminiatures.com/images/288200564316409Hanseprojekt_Terrain_MA-Fachwerkhaus_01.JPG)

The above are all examples where I mounted a moderately flimsy structure on a base for added stability.

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/African%20ImagiNations/SCENERY_INFRASTRUCTURE_GZBR_TOWER_zpsafb6c3df.jpg)

This Airfix control tower has a base, but is detachable to allow for placing figures inside; it is relatively stable on its own, and the base is more of an aesthetic add-on to make it blend into the tabletop more effectively.

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/Christian_S_1979/Modelling%20and%20Miniatures/Breughelburg/PORT_OF_BRUEGELBURG_2_zpse714a84f.jpg)

These "pseudomedieval" houses don't have integral bases, but rather internal reinforcements. Apart from the 4Ground house, they are "solid" pieces in that figures cannot be placed inside.

Once I get around to making some buildings for 2000AD games, those will most likely not have external bases to allow placing them in various assemblies, e.g. detached or in terraced fashion.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mitch K on December 23, 2013, 01:05:31 PM: I'd largely echo Chris's comments - bases are handy for providing structural strength and support, and to provide a stable base with weird and wonderful building shapes. The one other thing I would add is that I find bases handy for adding bits of terrain/foliage around footings.

Plenty of pictures here:
http://mitchwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://mitchwargaming.blogspot.co.uk/)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on December 23, 2013, 01:09:06 PM: Thanks for the quick and full responses guys (wow sums my reaction to those tables). I had not given a thought to the solidity point or even internal bracing as I'm currently using resin / MDF buildings and these are pretty solid obviously. Never seen the need in fantasy skirmish to have buildings with removable roofs yet but I know one SAGA scenario that requires occupation.

I do like the idea of the removable shells to allow you to put the figures in the buildings - I seen Cowboy games where you moved the figures to a separate table with flat building outlines when combat moved indoors - great for the bar fight as these plans where larger than the actual buildings (1 1/2 to 2 times the size) and you could add tables etc without fear of walls getting in the way of fingers. This way also coped well with two or more stories but did detract from the game overall as you had to swap tables a lot - looking back, this did increase the 'realism' as you got a surprise when you rejoined the main table and found opponents hiding by the door!

In a couple of games I did, I went to the other extreme and had no walls at all:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ul8s6pPuXZQ/S7eCS55uxoI/AAAAAAAABFk/-g3K3c3Gcpc/s800/DSCN0968%255B3%255D.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c3lYWnUe3_U/TLIrpPko56I/AAAAAAAABWw/QTJjE6PUYnA/s640/DSC00076%255B3%255D.jpg)

but also had the privilege of playing on / in this 7-TV game:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ueyh3zg7pvg/TpnYqL94SAI/AAAAAAAACxk/tzK48ji-1HY/s640/DSC01249.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HkFX_9mXhnM/TpnY0UgfxHI/AAAAAAAACyM/mZDSxOuHKe4/s640/DSC01265.JPG)

and did not have any issues wight he building sides (inc in the jail).
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Silent Invader on December 23, 2013, 01:21:04 PM: I didn't base until I had up close experience of Jimbibbly's buildings (Oshiro Terrain), where each building is a mini diorama (sans people).

I followed James approach for my Wars of the Roses projects

(Photo by Captain Blood)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/11/577_06_11_12_9_04_05_2.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/11/577_06_11_12_8_43_27_3.JPG)

For my winter post apoc project (SSS) I took this a stage further and the buildings are based directly onto the 30cm sq board tiles

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/13/2031_18_06_13_11_20_41_4.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/13/2031_18_06_13_11_21_25_3.jpg)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Malamute on December 23, 2013, 01:27:24 PM: Yes I always base my buildings, usually with some scenic bits to embelish it.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/12/86_18_01_13_1_51_12_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/86_08_06_09_9_07_38_1.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/86_05_08_09_5_27_48_0.jpg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/4/86_09_12_09_3_26_31_3.jpg)

You get the idea. Each piece becomes a mini diorama, the only downside is they are not so versatile.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Silent Invader on December 23, 2013, 01:30:48 PM: Yes, mucho credit to Nick! As well as Jimbibbly's, his work was also a major influence on me.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on December 23, 2013, 03:33:27 PM: OK - I obviously have a long way to go when I start basing…

My latest (unbiased) house is built up here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=61379.msg738346#msg738346):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DgUooIbOv4E/UrhR8bH1mXI/AAAAAAAADp0/_QtxRmXtbP4/s800/P1000897.JPG)

(Insert blush icon here)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mason on December 23, 2013, 04:15:14 PM: I am with the other fella's here: Yes to bases.

Strength and somewhere to mess about and 'pimp' up add to the visual appeal for me are a must, but I have been told that I do go overboard sometimes..... ::)

It just looks so much better to me.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Malamute on December 23, 2013, 06:17:08 PM: Andrew, that's a very nice building. :)

a base will really bring it alive. Just something simple with some drybrushed earth and static grass and it will lift the overall effect.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mason on December 23, 2013, 06:26:37 PM: Quote from: Malamute on December 23, 2013, 06:17:08 PM
Andrew, that's a very nice building. :)

a base will really bring it alive. Just something simple with some drybrushed earth and static grass and it will lift the overall effect.

It is.
If you wanted to go a little further then a barrel or a couple of sacks stacked against the wall start to tell a story.
You can go further still, it is up to you where to stop.
;)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mr. Peabody on December 23, 2013, 06:49:56 PM: I love a nicely based bit of real estate... That said, I avoid basing buildings because I would very quickly run out of storage space. So I make do. It's not as nice, but I have room for the kit I need/want.

Sometimes compromise rears its ugly head. :?
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mitch K on December 23, 2013, 06:51:18 PM: Quote from: AndrewBeasley on December 23, 2013, 03:33:27 PM
OK - I obviously have a long way to go when I start basing…

My latest (unbiased) house is built up here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=61379.msg738346#msg738346):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DgUooIbOv4E/UrhR8bH1mXI/AAAAAAAADp0/_QtxRmXtbP4/s800/P1000897.JPG)

(Insert blush icon here)

There is NOTHING to blush about there. That's a damned good building. I find a base helps "blend" buildings into the ground, and as others have said, will make your work REALLY pop.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mitch K on December 23, 2013, 06:54:32 PM: Quote from: Mr. Peabody on December 23, 2013, 06:49:56 PM
I love a nicely based bit of real estate... That said, I avoid basing buildings because I would very quickly run out of storage space. So I make do. It's not as nice, but I have room for the kit I need/want.

Sometimes compromise rears its ugly head. :?

I often go with a little widdy base about 10mm wider than the building, just to allow me to get weeds, grass, rubbish andother thingsyou find at the base of walls, is ideal. It adds character, blends the building in and provides plenty of strength and rigidity, without making the thing noticably bigger. Works for me, anyway.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Wirelizard on December 23, 2013, 10:33:13 PM: Almost none of my ordinary buildings are based - I like the flexibility of being able to put them down on any ground cloth and having them "fit". You loose some of the spiffy diorama effect, of course, but gain flexibility.

The only exposed bases are buildings with courtyards or forecourts, or "buildings" like the pig pen I built for my Russian Civil War scenery, which is really just fencing and a partial roof instead of a real building!

(http://imageshack.us/a/img841/1497/rusbuildings22mar2012.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img194/8186/rusplankhut13apr2012.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img15/1120/ruschurchwip30jan2012.jpg)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: 6milPhil on December 23, 2013, 11:15:53 PM: It depends on the building or model in 28mm it's always very small and simple. In 6mm it's essential as I see it, not least because it helps the models survive storage.

6mm:
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0730.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0713.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0737.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0707.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0699.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0702.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dscf1248.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dscf1231.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1042.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1014.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf0988.jpg?w=450)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on December 24, 2013, 10:09:37 AM: Quote from: 6milPhil on December 23, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
It depends on the building or model in 28mm it's always very small and simple. In 6mm it's essential as I see it, not least because it helps the models survive storage.

Those are brilliant 6mm buildings!

I can see the need for the bases at this size (and below) - do you standardise on a base size or go with what looks right? One 2mm game I did was hex based and I kept all units and 'buildings' to a standard hex size:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j7lGQPPR810/Ti5pOS8PjCI/AAAAAAAACJo/WAG3BOZBWQk/s400/DSC00836%255B3%255D.jpg)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Lowtardog on December 24, 2013, 11:41:45 AM: Pardulon has or had (off to check before posting) some lovely rammage corners and the like for buildings. I used them for my tudor buildings and they work wonders...bugger they no longer do them.

Basically they were corner edges, leading edges with wheels, barrels and the like that could be placed against the walls of buildings to make them look more like a diorama. Sold off with all my buildings a couple of years ago :'( but will see if mate has them and can get a photo.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mason on December 24, 2013, 12:15:53 PM: Quote from: AndrewBeasley on December 24, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
I can see the need for the bases at this size (and below) - do you standardise on a base size or go with what looks right?

All of my buildings are for 28mm gaming, but I do tend to 'standardise' them so that they will fit in an A4 paper box, either singly or in multiples.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Silent Invader on December 24, 2013, 02:00:54 PM: Yes, design your basing system with storage in mind!
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: 6milPhil on December 24, 2013, 02:13:57 PM: Quote from: AndrewBeasley on December 24, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Those are brilliant 6mm buildings!

I can see the need for the bases at this size (and below) - do you standardise on a base size or go with what looks right? One 2mm game I did was hex based and I kept all units and 'buildings' to a standard hex size:

Thanks. On the buildings I go with what looks right, for example these ones:

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1014.jpg?w=450)
Effectively these are the same building, just one is a ruin. I wanted a posh, possibly official building for in-town on the bottom one so the base had to be quite small. For the one above I wanted something more in the country which might have strategic importance, so made it big enough to get a few units in.
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf0988.jpg?w=450)

But I use standard sized bases for troops, be it infantry, tanks, mortars, etc, with an eye on making buildings with bases large enough to accomodate based troops.

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/dscf2238.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dscf1759.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dscf1704.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0926.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/dscf0919.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1161.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf0939.jpg?w=450)

On towed weapons I use two bases, one for the tower and one for the towee.

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dscf1207.jpg?w=450)

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dscf1209.jpg?w=450)

Example of unit fitting in scenery:
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dscf1179.jpg?w=450)

And a bunker built to take bases.

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1199.jpg?w=450)

Details here:
http://6milphil.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/bunker-mentality/ (http://6milphil.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/bunker-mentality/)

I'll be doing more 6mm soon, I like the layout you can get on a dining table:
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/dscf2410.jpg?w=450)

For storage the scenics go into shoe boxes which I've put small partitions in to hold it in place, for the figures I use A4 metal sheet (the fig bases are all magnetised) in these;

(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1030.jpg?w=450)
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dscf1031.jpg?w=450)

To work all this out did take a fair amount of thinking, and knowing how that hurts I'm happy to share. :)

There's plenty more 6mm on my blog in the archive 2009 onwards. ;)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Mitch K on December 24, 2013, 02:30:58 PM: Phil, that storage system is fiendishly clever - I love it!
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: 6milPhil on December 24, 2013, 03:10:07 PM: Thanks, all the Brits fit in one and all the Germans in another. It makes them very portable, even if it's hard to find someone to play 6mm. :(
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: Grimmnar on January 02, 2014, 06:24:59 AM: I personally can never decide to base or not to base. Certain things for me are a must. Others not so much. Figures are a yes. Vehicles for the most part are a no. Buildings/structures that i have seen in this post, most i can see w/o a base. But all that do have a base look good as well. To me, this topic has been a long talked one right behind the topic of "scales" and what is correct. ;-)
Lots of good inspiration here folks. Thanks for sharing.

Grimm
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on January 02, 2014, 08:13:12 PM: I found a set of 4" MDF bases on Flickr yesterday (though they date from 2000):

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8265219890_5864177b1c_z.jpg)

Lots of others by staikens (http://www.flickr.com/people/77950766@N08/)
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: 6milPhil on January 03, 2014, 04:57:55 AM: Interesting stuff... but 3mm? :?
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: maxxon on January 03, 2014, 06:41:44 AM: I try to avoid basing unless it's absolutely necessary for the stablity of the models. And if I add a base, I try to make the overhang as small, inobtrusive and generic as possible.

I do a lot of different games, and plonking a house with a lush garden on a nuclear wasteland table just looks stupid, IMHO.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: FramFramson on January 03, 2014, 05:51:32 PM: Always buildings, never vehicles.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on January 03, 2014, 07:02:30 PM: Quote from: 6milPhil on January 03, 2014, 04:57:55 AM
Interesting stuff... but 3mm? :?

As a 2mm player 3mm seems a bit big (well it is 50% larger) lol

I would think from the style and size they where made for WW2 or modern with Pico Armor or Oddzial Osmy (O8) figures (http://www.picoarmor.com).

Quote from: maxxon on January 03, 2014, 06:41:44 AM

I do a lot of different games, and plonking a house with a lush garden on a nuclear wasteland table just looks stupid, IMHO.

Good point - my issue is with winter games the building itself needs snow / ice so you end up with two sets of buildings come what may :'(
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: 6milPhil on January 04, 2014, 02:22:53 AM: Well 3mm is a new one on me, 2mm I've tried, and 6mm I really like.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on January 04, 2014, 07:47:38 AM: Quote from: 6milPhil on January 04, 2014, 02:22:53 AM
...6mm I really like.

Would never have guessed :D
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: maxxon on January 07, 2014, 08:20:24 AM: Quote from: AndrewBeasley on January 03, 2014, 07:02:30 PM
Good point - my issue is with winter games the building itself needs snow / ice so you end up with two sets of buildings come what may :'(

You might be able to fabricate detachable "snowed roofs" to put on your buildings.
Title: Re: To base or not to base - buildings that is the question
Post by: AndrewBeasley on February 04, 2014, 08:09:03 PM: Well I decided to base and did two at last but I think the rim is too large on this even with the clumps of grass:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--LxG_-anAA8/UvFEmOrmx_I/AAAAAAAADr0/mlo33FYCoNk/s400/P1000930.JPG)

I'll post the other pics in the 'wood filler' article.