Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => SuperHero Adventures => Topic started by: fourcolorfigs on January 08, 2014, 01:48:49 PM
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Hey, folks! Just letting you know S2 4th is almost ready for some tire-kicking!
I am very pleased with the changes we have made, and I have to say, we decided to go big on this one and re-evaluate everything.
The core Goalsystem mechanics remain the same, but we've added new elements and simplified others. I'd like to do some limited play-testing before we start the Kickstarter in February. I am fairly confident in what we're doing, and the few games I have played have left me pretty happy with the new direction, but I want some longtime players to try it out too. I will say I think it will be easier to stat up characters using this version of the rules.
The idea would be to have a 75% complete PDF to give out to anyone who backs us in the KS. You back us, you get the PDF. Then when the KS ends (and you've remained with us) you'll eventually get a finished PDF and your hardcover book should you back us at that level.
If you're interested in taking a look, shoot me a PM here and I will get the rules doc out to you when it's "ready". At this point it will be a raw, Google doc with no special formatting.
Thanks for your interest!
--Scott
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Good luck Scott. :)
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You had me at hey, folks... :-*
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Very interested. Just PMed you.
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PM sent. Keen for the KS next month too.
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Best of luck to you Scott! I will probably get the new ruleset later though, atm we are just about to begin an SS3 campaign down at the club!!! lol
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I'm with Soapy!
PM sent
Kind regards
Jim
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Thanks, folks! Got all your PM's and noted them. I will send you a rules doc in a few days, I hope! Need to make some more edits.
SoloSystem rules might not be in there initially, as I need to re-edit them taking into account all of the changes we made.
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Thanks, folks! Got all your PM's and noted them. I will send you a rules doc in a few days, I hope! Need to make some more edits.
SoloSystem rules might not be in there initially, as I need to re-edit them taking into account all of the changes we made.
Oh darn that was one element I was looking forward to seeing!
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Good luck Scott. :)
Thanks!
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Looking forward to it. I'll be a backer, but probably would be a bad play tester.
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Folks, I am writing a series of articles for Play Unplugged on the design process for S2 4th, and here is a link to the first one:
http://www.playunplugged.com/2014/01/designers-log-1-rules-tell-time/
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Great read! A few thoughts and questions!
1) When in Feb for the KS? Reason I ask, we have Valentine's Day, a wine tasting weekend trip and I have a tournament to run at a weekend event....so, I need to plan to stash some cash. ;)
2) Any idea on pledge designs, for the cash savings? How much is a book? Any extras that may be included?
3) Sent you an idea to hit up Old Glory to see if they would print you up some special edition figs from that batch that never got printed. *hint* People would buy them! If priced right.
Thoughts and ramblings:
1) Make sure to include details on the classic comic books like giant dinos, mega robots and monsters for heroes to fight, I liked that Pulp City addressed that but I perfer SS beter.
2) Having a hell of a time trying to build a shape changer, most alternate forms characters seem to maybe make 3 or so forms and then they crash.
3) Hope to see some more new powers as well
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing where the rules are going.
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This makes me very happy! I will probably get in on the kickstarter for a chance at a hardcover 4th ed.
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I will probably buy it also ! Probably after the release (I'm a bit intimidated by crowdfunding stuff lol).
Will you include the solo/coop system in the final release ? Will it benefit of a specific chapter with deep rules for it (dedicated scenarios, etc...), or will it be "just" (and again, it's already really interesting!) some kind of "free optional extra rules" ?
Is the book going to be hardcover, full colour edition ?
Thanks
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I will probably buy it also ! Probably after the release (I'm a bit intimidated by crowdfunding stuff lol).
No worries! My hope is that if and when the KS succeeds, I'll plenty of extra copies to sell in online stores and brick and mortar stores.
Will you include the solo/coop system in the final release ? Will it benefit of a specific chapter with deep rules for it (dedicated scenarios, etc...), or will it be "just" (and again, it's already really interesting!) some kind of "free optional extra rules" ?
SoloSystem will definitely be an Appendix in the SuperSystem 4th ed. rules. It will be 4K - 5K words--largely what you've seen, but tweaked for the many changes I have made since I last sent it to you. It is not going to be an in-depth, standalone thing. That would require a whole book unto itself, and frankly, I am more interested in satisfying the needs of the vast majority of S2 fans who play the game against live opponents. Still, there will be plenty there for you to tinker with and add onto. :)
Is the book going to be hardcover, full colour edition ?
Excellent questions! I don't yet know these answers. I guess once the layout is done, we'll see. I am thinking black and white interior, and a hardcover book. But what do folks want?
I also think it might be cool to make the book the same dimensions as a comic book or graphic novel. So many possibilities!
I am sure responses here will run the gamut.
Thanks!
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thanks for your answer,
Personaly, I usually like beautiful gaming books (from Osprey, or Catalyst for example), and as a foreign customer, I would invest in a full color hardback book (if the price is decent) : since I'll have to pay expensive shipping costs, I would like to know the book itself (not speaking of the content) worths it.
If it's not possible, I will probably prefer the PDF version (to save shipping costs), so I'd prefer a printer friendly black and white interior pages since I print all my indie games.
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thanks for your answer,
Personaly, I usually like beautiful gaming books (from Osprey, or Catalyst for example), and as a foreign customer, I would invest in a full color hardback book (if the price is decent) : since I'll have to pay expensive shipping costs, I would like to know the book itself (not speaking of the content) worths it.
I am leaning toward a hardcover, myself. If the KS does well enough, we'll see. Perhaps the dimensions of a graphic novel. Quality paper. Slightly glossy. Sewn binding. B&W interior.
I have much to discuss with my layout guy!
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Great read! A few thoughts and questions!
1) When in Feb for the KS? Reason I ask, we have Valentine's Day, a wine tasting weekend trip and I have a tournament to run at a weekend event....so, I need to plan to stash some cash. ;)
We're likely going to push it to mid-March. I don't want to step on Pulp City's toes. This is a big tent, and I want everyone to do well, so there's no reason to crowd anyone. ;)
2) Any idea on pledge designs, for the cash savings? How much is a book? Any extras that may be included?
My highly trained team of experts and I ( ;D) are still working on this. Once the rules become fairly firm, I can move forward with some sample layouts, begin talking with printers, and gathering data. All the while you guys will be play-testing stuff for us! ;) Then we can come up with some structures. A likely matrix is:
PDF = B&W Softcover = B&W Hardcover = Full-color Hardcover
We'll sprinkle a few goodies in there as well. I just finished re-editing the SoloSystem rules, so they'll included in the first play-test doc too.
3) Sent you an idea to hit up Old Glory to see if they would print you up some special edition figs from that batch that never got printed. *hint* People would buy them! If priced right.
My concern with anything like this is logistics. I learned a lot from the Goalsystem Delves KS I did. I am not sure if you're aware of this, but I delivered exactly on time. Not many KS do that. That's not a boast, that's just who I am, and that about killed me. Part of the problem was all the "moving parts" I had in the KS. Terrain, minis, books, PDFs, etc. I am a one-man gang, and it became almost overwhelming, but I did it--not without great psychic cost! o_o
So maybe more info on that than you wanted, but I am being frank here. That is why I am cautious now. And I also need to add, international shipping destroyed me. I will have to charge something approaching real rates for international shipping. Otherwise, there's no point doing this. Now I may be able to swing some kind of deal with a contact in the UK, so we'll see...
1) Make sure to include details on the classic comic books like giant dinos, mega robots and monsters for heroes to fight
This could happen--see answer below.
2) Having a hell of a time trying to build a shape changer, most alternate forms characters seem to maybe make 3 or so forms and then they crash.
You are going to like our solution for this one!
3) Hope to see some more new powers as well
A few new ones, some refinement on some existing ones, and the elimination of others that are no longer needed.
I spent the weekend building characters and running games, and I had a blast! I really think chargen is easier now.
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing where the rules are going.
I think I should be thanking you, and everyone who loves my games! I would not be doing this if you folks weren't so supportive and interested in SuperSystem.
---Scott
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Great read! A few thoughts and questions!
2) Having a hell of a time trying to build a shape changer, most alternate forms characters seem to maybe make 3 or so forms and then they crash.
Another thought I had on this, why not use Elemental Control Pool and the Omni Power upgrade, then make a handful of packages (i.e., Elephant, Octopus, Gorilla, Hawk, Crocodile) that reflect the abilities of each form? You're essentially using Omni-Power to buy Alternate Form multiple times.
This would work better, IMHO. We'll be including stats for a lot of basic animals in one of the appendices in the book, but these animals are not as "combat worthy" as your average super. Using the ECP + Omni power option might be better.
Try it out. If I get time, once the play-test doc has been sent, I will try to write this up.
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We're likely going to push it to mid-March. I don't want to step on Pulp City's toes. This is a big tent, and I want everyone to do well, so there's no reason to crowd anyone. ;)
Actually that is great news, better on the ole budget for me. Plus you are right, always kind to share the tent and I think often some KS overshadow one another and you get less impact in investments because of that.
My highly trained team of experts and I ( ;D) are still working on this. Once the rules become fairly firm, I can move forward with some sample layouts, begin talking with printers, and gathering data. All the while you guys will be play-testing stuff for us! ;) Then we can come up with some structures. A likely matrix is:
PDF = B&W Softcover = B&W Hardcover = Full-color Hardcover
We'll sprinkle a few goodies in there as well. I just finished re-editing the SoloSystem rules, so they'll included in the first play-test doc too.
Cool! Main question is prices, what are some considered prices? Should I save $100, just need to worry about $50, you get the drift....curious if there is a sweet spot or anything.
My concern with anything like this is logistics. I learned a lot from the Goalsystem Delves KS I did. I am not sure if you're aware of this, but I delivered exactly on time. Not many KS do that. That's not a boast, that's just who I am, and that about killed me. Part of the problem was all the "moving parts" I had in the KS. Terrain, minis, books, PDFs, etc. I am a one-man gang, and it became almost overwhelming, but I did it--not without great psychic cost! o_o
So maybe more info on that than you wanted, but I am being frank here. That is why I am cautious now. And I also need to add, international shipping destroyed me. I will have to charge something approaching real rates for international shipping. Otherwise, there's no point doing this. Now I may be able to swing some kind of deal with a contact in the UK, so we'll see...
Actually, the fact yo was on time for the last one (I bother to look at records of Kickstarters) after getting stung a few times....granted it is all a gamble in the end. Palladium just botched Robotech, Winter Wars was delayed due to technical failure on the casting machine but he also dealt with the problem quickly and in a professional light. Guardians ran behind, put some extra effort out (and swag) to make things right. Even when not on time, if there is effort then that impresses me. Games and Gears was on time for their last one, so that sold me on their latest also.
As for shipping, yes, you have to either do one of two facts. 1) Factor the shipping in as an extra fee or work it into the general price somehow to comp your costs. Which in some ways sucks, everyone pays the same but shipping to me may be cheaper than shipping it to Bob in France. 2) Find an international dealer that can help, you ship in bulk to them and they finish the mailing in a cheaper fashion. I know some KS have wrangled overseas help to cover costs.
Looking forward to the rules and the project once it lifts off. I understand about the extras and me just wishing Old Glory would get off their butt and use those molds, I even emailed and asked them if they would ever get produced and they said maybe....The molds are made and they could make some sales, I really don't see what the issue is, the supers genre is growing more and more....Clix and the movies are really pushing things forward and now things are expanding more...*shrug*
I did consider the Omni option, which I may tinker with, right now that character isn't as high on the totem pole as other things.
Thanks,
Patrick
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We're likely going to push it to mid-March. I don't want to step on Pulp City's toes. This is a big tent, and I want everyone to do well, so there's no reason to crowd anyone. ;)
I think the minis hobby-place is always going to have some competing interests! :)
We had hoped for October, then that slipped to November, then we had to write-off December as it is a challenging time financially for everyone.
Anyway, i will be backing when it does come. :)
My concern with anything like this is logistics. I learned a lot from the Goalsystem Delves KS I did. I am not sure if you're aware of this, but I delivered exactly on time. Not many KS do that. That's not a boast, that's just who I am, and that about killed me. Part of the problem was all the "moving parts" I had in the KS. Terrain, minis, books, PDFs, etc. I am a one-man gang, and it became almost overwhelming, but I did it--not without great psychic cost! o_o
So maybe more info on that than you wanted, but I am being frank here. That is why I am cautious now. And I also need to add, international shipping destroyed me. I will have to charge something approaching real rates for international shipping. Otherwise, there's no point doing this. Now I may be able to swing some kind of deal with a contact in the UK, so we'll see...
I think realism about your targets and your numbers is the only way to go, and you are very much taking the right course it seems. :)
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I understand about the extras and me just wishing Old Glory would get off their butt and use those molds, I even emailed and asked them if they would ever get produced and they said maybe....The molds are made and they could make some sales, I really don't see what the issue is, the supers genre is growing more and more....Clix and the movies are really pushing things forward and now things are expanding more...*shrug*
Just to clarify, Master molds are made, not production. It's a lot of work to make production molds for those 12 figures. That's a day or two of work for a skilled mold maker, cutting 5 or 6 molds. So while I want those figures made too, I understand OG's position in the matter. Still, you never know! It could happen!
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Just to clarify, Master molds are made, not production. It's a lot of work to make production molds for those 12 figures. That's a day or two of work for a skilled mold maker, cutting 5 or 6 molds. So while I want those figures made too, I understand OG's position in the matter. Still, you never know! It could happen!
Yea, it was poorly worded on my part. It just sucks that the money and time was done up to that point and then dropped. Kinda doing something half assed....hell they should do a KS to finish the unloved project off! Works for everyone else.
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Wished I had a background in the game so I could participate. Will just have to wait until the KS come up. Watching for this.
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I don't mind having to pay shipping for a good product. ;)
What does get my goat though, is when Australia gets singled out with a much steeper rate. Happens way more than one would expect on KS.
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Hi everyone, sorry it took so long to weigh in! I've been really busy the past few weeks.
I'm extremely excited to see this project come up! I've said to Scott privately that there would never have been a Crossover Miniatures if it wasn't for SuperSystem! I've been a Supers fan for as long as I can remember but not being a role player I didn't feel there was much out there for me. Once I found SS it was like a beam of light shot down on my computer screen and music started playing.
I'll be there day 1!!
Rusti
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Hi everyone, sorry it took so long to weigh in! I've been really busy the past few weeks.
I'm extremely excited to see this project come up! I've said to Scott privately that there would never have been a Crossover Miniatures if it wasn't for SuperSystem! I've been a Supers fan for as long as I can remember but not being a role player I didn't feel there was much out there for me. Once I found SS it was like a beam of light shot down on my computer screen and music started playing.
I'll be there day 1!!
Rusti
Thanks, Rusti! I think the changes and tweaks we're making will make it an even better game! Been statting up a bunch of animals and dinosaurs for the Appendix this morning.
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Anyway, i will be backing when it does come. :)
Thanks, Leon! Ditto for me and you guys!
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Thanks, Rusti! I think the changes and tweaks we're making will make it an even better game! Been statting up a bunch of animals and dinosaurs for the Appendix this morning.
But will there be the ability to build a character that is a Dino like Beast Boy or Devil Dino (To use clix figures available) or even some Velociraptors?
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But will there be the ability to build a character that is a Dino like Beast Boy or Devil Dino (To use clix figures available) or even some Velociraptors?
Current system lets you build a character like Devil Dino easy, take growth with always on, etc....oh yea, easy as pie on that. Shapeshifters was the hardest to figure out but I think the above advice of Omni solved that issue.
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I have SS3 but struggle with designing my characters .
Will there be a stat calculator available for those like me who suck at working out all of the stats/skills and other bits?
Also I would be keen to try the rules. And I will be pledging for the rule book as well March is a way better month for me to do so...
Also like Australia we in New Zealand get stung quite high with postage costs.
LGW
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I have SS3 but struggle with designing my characters .
Will there be a stat calculator available for those like me who suck at working out all of the stats/skills and other bits?
Also I would be keen to try the rules. And I will be pledging for the rule book as well March is a way better month for me to do so...
Also like Australia we in New Zealand get stung quite high with postage costs.
LGW
We're normalizing stat costs for super-easy calculation, so it will be easier to add up your total costs for Attributes, even though there will be more of them! ;)
Dave may redo his online calculator at some point, but I cannot say for sure. I am building a lot of characters now, and it is easier than ever. New cap for standard games will be 75 pts. Of course, players can set whatever cap they want. Dice pools are going to be smaller, overall, for 75 pt./model games.
Characters will possess greater depth.
I am still running internal play-tests at this point. I hope to get the doc out to folks in the next week or so. Sorry for the delay!
On the shipping to the Pacific Rim--there are no easy answers. I just know I cannot take the losses I took on the last KS I ran. So we'll see...
Thanks!
--Scott
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I know a few people who would be interested in the rules here in Melbourne,once the KS starts maybe we can take a look at bundling things for some savings on shipping.
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We're normalizing stat costs for super-easy calculation, so it will be easier to add up your total costs for Attributes, even though there will be more of them! ;)
Dave may redo his online calculator at some point, but I cannot say for sure. I am building a lot of characters now, and it is easier than ever. New cap for standard games will be 75 pts. Of course, players can set whatever cap they want. Dice pools are going to be smaller, overall, for 75 pt./model games.
Characters will possess greater depth.
I am still running internal play-tests at this point. I hope to get the doc out to folks in the next week or so. Sorry for the delay!
On the shipping to the Pacific Rim--there are no easy answers. I just know I cannot take the losses I took on the last KS I ran. So we'll see...
Thanks!
--Scott
I was working on a database for character creation for 3rd edition. It worked for most of the characters from the official team book. I don't see any reason I couldn't make a new one for 4th ed. The character card layout I had started would need work for additional stats.
Will there be any guidelines/tips/hints on converting 2nd/3rd edition characters to 4th?
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I was working on a database for character creation for 3rd edition. It worked for most of the characters from the official team book. I don't see any reason I couldn't make a new one for 4th ed. The character card layout I had started would need work for additional stats.
Will there be any guidelines/tips/hints on converting 2nd/3rd edition characters to 4th?
We'll on the database--if Dave wants to redo his, his will be the "official" one, for whatever that's worth! ;) But other folks can certainly do their own too.
As for conversion guidelines, I will think about putting some together.
Thanks!
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What things will be different in new edition?
There will be significatie changes in:
- system of Action points?
- more or less atributes?
What concepts will change (not concrete things, it´s obvius that powers or maniovers will chage)
Could SS3 be updated to SS4 with a few chages or will be comletly different?
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I would love to see the ability to do robotic minions. As you Uld use them as heroes, villains or AI controlled security bots.
And even cults that would be great. The cult could have quite a few followers and a few demons. Some new skills could be sermon, rant, words of power,
Would add some flavour to the mix. Also alien bounty hunters would be fun to add in and some awesome scenarios would be easy to add.
Then again what ever comes from this I will be happy.
LGW
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What things will be different in new edition?
There will be significatie changes in:
- system of Action points?
- more or less atributes?
What concepts will change (not concrete things, it´s obvius that powers or maniovers will chage)
Could SS3 be updated to SS4 with a few chages or will be comletly different?
I have another Play Unplugged column coming this week that directly addresses this, but I can speak to it here as well.
Action Points remain, along with the one attack per turn limit. More Attributes--7 to be precise. This creates greater granularity and addresses some min-maxing issues I've had with the game since I first created it.
I don't think it will be too hard to move your SS3 characters to SS4. It will be a matter of learning a few new maxims, eye-balling your character, and then just moving him over. Mind and Resolve remain the same, so that's easy. The other stuff we're splitting up a bit so folks need to make choices.
Dice pools will be a little smaller in this version of the game; that was intentional. I am finding chargen easier, but then I am biased! :D
Hope this helps!
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Folks, we have a cover, and I am ecstatic!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Supersystem-cover-mockup_zps95dc3478.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Supersystem-cover-mockup_zps95dc3478.jpg.html)
Dare I say, excelsior!
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Scott,
This is the cover you should have had from the start! :o
WELL DONE!
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Nice !
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That cover rocks!
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Thanks! I am really excited about it! If we can make a goal for a color interior, Rich Y. is going to color all of the awesome interior pieces he's done for us over the years, and do a few new ones, and those will form the bulk of our interior artwork.
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love the new cover, very golden age.. will you be relaesing some new or updated minis as well ??
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love the new cover, very golden age.. will you be relaesing some new or updated minis as well ??
There may be some promo minis for the KS, but I am mainly interested in rules at this point. I am reluctant to weigh the KS down with too many moving parts. But we'll see....
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Looking forward to this.
I am still to get my first game up and running, even though I own both the printed 2nd Ed. and the 3rd Ed. pdf., and did paint and create 3 heroes and a villain with 2 henchman groups for 2nd. Everytime I'm just about to set up a game, something happens that postpones it, and I forget about it for a while.
When this is out, I'll prioritize joining the ranks of the champions of justice, though ;)
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There may be some promo minis for the KS, but I am mainly interested in rules at this point. I am reluctant to weigh the KS down with too many moving parts. But we'll see....
awesome cover, I love it. definitely in for the KS. One thing I would like to see is a video showing how a battle goes down. And another video on creating a character sheet.
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awesome cover, I love it. definitely in for the KS. One thing I would like to see is a video showing how a battle goes down. And another video on creating a character sheet.
These are both excellent suggestions! Once we get the initial video done, maybe we can knock one or both of these out too.
Thanks!
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Folks, we have a cover, and I am ecstatic!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Supersystem-cover-mockup-v2_zps450d6dae.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Supersystem-cover-mockup-v2_zps450d6dae.jpg.html)
Dare I say, excelsior!
The old maxim "every issue with an ape or other simian on the cover sold better than any other." I see ;).
Stunning new cover Scott and I will at some point purchase the SS4. Currently we just started up our SS3 campaign at my gaming club and much fun was had!!! :D
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The old maxim "every issue with an ape or other simian on the cover sold better than any other." I see ;).
Stunning new cover Scott and I will at some point purchase the SS4. Currently we just started up our SS3 campaign at my gaming club and much fun was had!!! :D
Thanks! That was DC's Julie Schwartz, who I believe initially had a fascination with placing Firemen on covers, then moved to Apes. He did have some sales data that indicated apes on covers sold more issues. Not sure if that would hold true over the long haul, but it worked for them for a little while. The new cover features 3 of my favorite characters I've created, and Ape-Austen, the $6 million Simian, remains among my top 10 fav SuperFigs models.
And Rich Y. hit a home run for us on the art! Also, special thanks to Joe D. for his excellent logo design on the cover. So it's aces all around!
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Is it intentional or is it a typo: EDITON #4?
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Is it intentional or is it a typo: EDITON #4?
Nope! We'll fix that!!!!
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Typo fixed!!!!!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Supersystem-cover-mockup_zps95dc3478.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Supersystem-cover-mockup_zps95dc3478.jpg.html)
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I'm really loving what I'm seeing and hearing! :-*
I can see I'm gonna to go deep on this KS.
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If you are still looking for playtesters/proofreaders, I would love to get in on that. My gaming can be spotty with my new job, but I am pretty good at finding grammatical and spelling errors, as well as proofing for clarity.
Looking forward to the KS either way.
~Eric
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Thanks, eMills!
If folks missed it, I did a second designer's log on Play Unplugged:
http://www.playunplugged.com/2014/01/designers-log-2-devil-meet-details/
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Great read! Two questions:
1) How does perception factor into the game? Just with powers? How would it determine awareness? Would it factor into initiative for a leader?
2) You mentioned some changes to Armor and Force field? Can you elaborate what you are toying with? Are we going to see less of these powers characters?
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Great read! Two questions:
1) How does perception factor into the game? Just with powers? How would it determine awareness? Would it factor into initiative for a leader?
PER acts as one of the 7 attributes. You buy it just as you would buy any of the other six. It replaces Enhanced Senses, and allows us to split environmental awareness away from the MND attribute. Also, it acts as one of the two default stats for initiative goal rolls. The other is DGE (Dodge). As a leader, you get to pick which one to use. Also, if you buy Super in either MND (Mind) or STK (Strike), you gain access to using those stats for initiative instead.
2) You mentioned some changes to Armor and Force field? Can you elaborate what you are toying with? Are we going to see less of these powers characters?
Not really toying, it's done! ;) Armor and Force Field are gone. They're folded into the DGE and TOU (Toughness) attributes. Attributes work more like powers in this edition--think of them as some combo of natural ability, training, and/or powers. While some "adder" powers remain, Force-Field, Armor, and Iron Will are gone.
Other adder powers have changed a bit in cost structure and presentation.
We're getting closer to releasing the play-test doc. Sorry for the delays. When you tinker with a 60K+ word document, the changes reverberate, and I want to make sure it's as tight as can be before unleashing it.
Thanks for your patience!
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Here's an image of the SuperSheet we're currently using in play-tests:
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Super-card_zps4a05700d.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Super-card_zps4a05700d.jpg.html)
Joe D. places 6 of these on an 8.5" x 11" sheet. This may change once we settle on the final dimensions of the book. It could drop to 4 per page if the book ends up being graphic novel sized.
The DMG and GEN slots allow models with powers like Ranged Attack and Entangle to easily list their most commonly used non attribute dice pools. Or a model like an Iron Fist type, who might add the Weapon power (formerly Melee Attack) to his STR, can also list that in DMG to avoid confusion.
I've found this format to be pretty friendly for new players. In play-tests I have used a highlighter to accentuate a model's most critical pools, but YMMV.
P.S. We'll make a PDF of this available when we unleash the play-test doc!
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PER acts as one of the 7 attributes. You buy it just as you would buy any of the other six. It replaces Enhanced Senses, and allows us to split environmental awareness away from the MND attribute. Also, it acts as one of the two default stats for initiative goal rolls. The other is DGE (Dodge). As a leader, you get to pick which one to use. Also, if you buy Super in either MND (Mind) or STK (Strike), you gain access to using those stats for initiative instead.
Not really toying, it's done! ;) Armor and Force Field are gone. They're folded into the DGE and TOU (Toughness) attributes. Attributes work more like powers in this edition--think of them as some combo of natural ability, training, and/or powers. While some "adder" powers remain, Force-Field, Armor, and Iron Will are gone.
Other adder powers have changed a bit in cost structure and presentation.
We're getting closer to releasing the play-test doc. Sorry for the delays. When you tinker with a 60K+ word document, the changes reverberate, and I want to make sure it's as tight as can be before unleashing it.
Thanks for your patience!
Ah, so how would the former power option like "Dome" work? To mimic powers like Skids and Invisible Woman? Would it be Bodyguard now and have a radius option to protect allies or some other new power option?
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Ah, so how would the former power option like "Dome" work? To mimic powers like Skids and Invisible Woman? Would it be Bodyguard now and have a radius option to protect allies or some other new power option?
There's a new, standalone power called Force Dome that covers this. You buy dice levels in it and can buy a wider area as well. Default is protect you or one other within 15".
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Well, now I have three sets of 15 mm supers, maybe I will still/just sell of the larger (25+) guys/gals but not totally eliminate Supers from the "Keep" list.
I guess we just wait for the rules before making a fatal... I mean final... decision.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Well, now I have three sets of 15 mm supers, maybe I will still/just sell of the larger (25+) guys/gals but not totally eliminate Supers from the "Keep" list.
I guess we just wait for the rules before making a fatal... I mean final... decision.
Gracias,
Glenn
Glenn, the conversion for 15mm will still be in 4th ed. It's very simple, but it's in there to affirm that the authors (that would be!) believe in the viability of super skirmish at this scale.
There's room for everybody!
P.S. And I love Rebel Minis 15mm Supers packs! I need to buy some!
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PER acts as one of the 7 attributes. You buy it just as you would buy any of the other six. It replaces Enhanced Senses, and allows us to split environmental awareness away from the MND attribute. Also, it acts as one of the two default stats for initiative goal rolls. The other is DGE (Dodge). As a leader, you get to pick which one to use. Also, if you buy Super in either MND (Mind) or STK (Strike), you gain access to using those stats for initiative instead.
Not really toying, it's done! ;) Armor and Force Field are gone. They're folded into the DGE and TOU (Toughness) attributes. Attributes work more like powers in this edition--think of them as some combo of natural ability, training, and/or powers. While some "adder" powers remain, Force-Field, Armor, and Iron Will are gone.
Other adder powers have changed a bit in cost structure and presentation.
We're getting closer to releasing the play-test doc. Sorry for the delays. When you tinker with a 60K+ word document, the changes reverberate, and I want to make sure it's as tight as can be before unleashing it.
Thanks for your patience!
So, how would one handle armor that acts as a power set, like Iron Man (especially if you wanted to have it removable/disabled)? Armor (the damage resisting kind), Enhanced Senses, Super Strength, etc. are all functions of the armor itself. Power Framework or something similar worked for that in past editions.
I ask, because I intend to use Supersystem as a core set for various settings and this would feature in most of them.
~Eric
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If you want to have a set of armor that does a number of different things, then I'd still build it as an ECP. Now with your Elemental Control Pools, you can add attribute bumps, so for Iron Man, I'd add a TOU and STR bump to every re-allocation of pool points. So let's just do this, shall we?
FE-Man (aka, Brilliant Inventor/Playboy, Sonny Clark)
Attributes = 34 pts.
STK 4 STR 3 DGE 3 TOU 3
MND 4 RES 4 PER 3
AP: 8 BP: 75 pts.
Vitality: 7
Powers
Elemental Control Pool (FE-Man Armor, = 41 pts.)
--1 Full Slot, 4 Half Slots = 12 pts.
--Power = 29 pts.
Ok, so here are some possible power sets:
Set 1 (28 pts. used)
--STR +4D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +4D (Half-Slot)
--Super-STR (Half-Slot)
--Super-TOU (Half-Slot)
--PER +2D (Full-Slot)
Set 2 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--DGE +2D (Half-Slot)
--Ranged Attack, 5D (Full Slot)
--STK +1D (Half-Slot)
Set 3 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--DGE +2D (Half-Slot)
--Flight (Full Slot)
--Extra Movement +7" (Half-Slot)
Set 4 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--Ranged Attack, 7D (Full Slot)
---Short Range
--Super x 1 (Ranged Attack, Half Slot)
Remember, you spend 2 AP to switch between power sets. Also, Full Slots don't have to use all the points they can potentially hold--so you can use one for a lower cost power if you run out of half slots.
And so on...
So you can get most of what you want.
Hope this helps!
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If you want to have a set of armor that does a number of different things, then I'd still build it as an ECP. Now with your Elemental Control Pools, you can add attribute bumps, so for Iron Man, I'd add a TOU and STR bump to every re-allocation of pool points. So let's just do this, shall we?
FE-Man (aka, Brilliant Inventor/Playboy, Sonny Clark)
Attributes = 34 pts.
STK 4 STR 3 DGE 3 TOU 3
MND 4 RES 4 PER 3
AP: 8 BP: 75 pts.
Vitality: 7
Powers
Elemental Control Pool (FE-Man Armor, = 41 pts.)
--1 Full Slot, 4 Half Slots = 12 pts.
--Power = 29 pts.
Ok, so here are some possible power sets:
Set 1 (28 pts. used)
--STR +4D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +4D (Half-Slot)
--Super-STR (Half-Slot)
--Super-TOU (Half-Slot)
--PER +2D (Full-Slot)
Set 2 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--DGE +2D (Half-Slot)
--Ranged Attack, 5D (Full Slot)
--STK +1D (Half-Slot)
Set 3 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--DGE +2D (Half-Slot)
--Flight (Full Slot)
--Extra Movement +7" (Half-Slot)
Set 4 (29 pts. used)
--STR +2D (Half-Slot)
--TOU +2D (Half-Slot)
--Ranged Attack, 7D (Full Slot)
---Short Range
--Super x 1 (Ranged Attack, Half Slot)
Remember, you spend 2 AP to switch between power sets. Also, Full Slots don't have to use all the points they can potentially hold--so you can use one for a lower cost power if you run out of half slots.
And so on...
So you can get most of what you want.
Hope this helps!
So it sounds like an ECP could also work for a martial artist character switching between different styles/stances? Or a character like Deadpool switching between guns at range and swords for close?
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So it sounds like an ECP could also work for a martial artist character switching between different styles/stances? Or a character like Deadpool switching between guns at range and swords for close?
Yep, same thing for like a magic/sorcerer type or a techno style character or even a Dr. Pym style character that keeps his gear shrunk down for use later.
Is there just an ECP now or is the Gadget Pool still around? That may work better for the FE-Man style.
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If you want to have a set of armor that does a number of different things, then I'd still build it as an ECP. Now with your Elemental Control Pools, you can add attribute bumps, so for Iron Man, I'd add a TOU and STR bump to every re-allocation of pool points. So let's just do this, shall we?
FE-Man (aka, Brilliant Inventor/Playboy, Sonny Clark)
...
Remember, you spend 2 AP to switch between power sets. Also, Full Slots don't have to use all the points they can potentially hold--so you can use one for a lower cost power if you run out of half slots.
And so on...
So you can get most of what you want.
Hope this helps!
Thanks Scott. Definitely something to think about.
I was thinking more of a Space Marine, Katyusha Rockets, one of the G.U.A.R.D. Powered Armor troops, or perhaps even the Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout. Not sure if you would handle those differently or not.
Is there just an ECP now or is the Gadget Pool still around? That may work better for the FE-Man style.
Those were pretty much the same, weren't they? Been awhile since I had my rules out, so I could be completely wrong... :)
~Eric
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Gadget still exists. It's not appropriate for Iron Man, as his armor cannot be easily taken away, IMO.
Anyway, for the Katyusha Rockets, I'd just build them as standard powers and attributes. So the Rockets have a 5D or 6D TOU--it's their armor. In a full RPG mode, you might want to distinguish that somehow, but for the skirmish game, it does not matter in IMHO.
Hope this helps!
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Champing at the bit here Scott... :o
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Ok, true-believers, after much consideration and editing, the link for the S2 4th ed. play-test is available!
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
Also, here is a link to the new SuperSheets:
https://app.box.com/s/ilpecrjdihfvquhglp7d
After you've read the rules and played some games, please send any feedback to me at my gmail account:
srpyle AT gmail DOT com
Thanks!
--Scott
P.S. We can also discuss rules here, of course!
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Just did a quick once over on my break. Yea, this is just from a break. I work in contracts and grants so reading large documents at a glance are one of my super powers! Here are a few thoughts, questions and suggestions:
1) SuperSheet (wow if said wrong this could sound really wrong!) Why 6 character spots? Game sizes are 3-5-8. Seems the SuperSheet should be 3 designs to match the game size/play. Plus if you want extra space for other odd stuff, vehicles, notes, etc…
2) How about a SoloSheet (just skimmed the rules) but I see we need to write down/track some additional stats. I see this as a popular option and may be worth a special sheet for players to use. One for Heroes and one for Villains.
3) Henchman only powers/boons/etc….suggest they get moved to the Henchman section. I always thought they were out of place in the regular section.
4) Suggest archetypes to be moved to the Appendix section, I like it better there. Easier to access instead of the middle of a book.
5) Suggest to Add to the Appendix a quick Chargen guide?
6)Love the Animal stats BTW, I know another power could perhaps work in this stead but how about a Summon Animal power? Say you have a character Jungle Lord that can call animals to his aid, so each level of a power allows him X CP points of animals to bring into the game. With the animal stats quick and easy it could work.
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1) SuperSheet (wow if said wrong this could sound really wrong!) Why 6 character spots? Game sizes are 3-5-8. Seems the SuperSheet should be 3 designs to match the game size/play. Plus if you want extra space for other odd stuff, vehicles, notes, etc…
Six spots works for a 5-model team with a Sidekick or Henchmen Boon.
2) How about a SoloSheet (just skimmed the rules) but I see we need to write down/track some additional stats. I see this as a popular option and may be worth a special sheet for players to use. One for Heroes and one for Villains.
This is a good idea and I will have Joe work one up when we get deeper into layout.
3) Henchman only powers/boons/etc….suggest they get moved to the Henchman section. I always thought they were out of place in the regular section.
There really aren't many of these, and I am in favor of keeping all of the stuff together.
4) Suggest archetypes to be moved to the Appendix section, I like it better there. Easier to access instead of the middle of a book.
They were there, but I moved them to the end of chargen section because they're important to me. When we lay the book out, they'll each have their own page with nifty color art from Rich Y. Like an Official Marvel Universe Handbook page.
5) Suggest to Add to the Appendix a quick Chargen guide?
Another good idea! I may do an example where we build a character from scratch and go thru each step.
6)Love the Animal stats BTW, I know another power could perhaps work in this stead but how about a Summon Animal power? Say you have a character Jungle Lord that can call animals to his aid, so each level of a power allows him X CP points of animals to bring into the game. With the animal stats quick and easy it could work.
You can do this with Extra Forms now, or even use the new Henchmen Boon.
Thanks for the early feedback!
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Lunch....so had some more time to read:
1) Add to List of Sites at the back: SuperSystem Yahoo Group
2) Set Animal Appendix to Two Colum, save you a few pages. Small savings at the printer.
3) Animal Appendix: Herd has Armor x1, all other animals changed.
4) P31, Alt Forms Power: Love the “Animal Only” but would suggest players pay extra for “larger” forms over X points, 5 points for a T-Rex form wow! I will test this out.
5) P30, states * is “stackable” what is #? This is next to: Climbing, Darkness, Edge, Escape Artist, Extra Movement, Flare, Force Dome, Instant Stand, Marksman, Perfect Timing, Ranged Attack and Weapon. As far as I can tell it isn’t a mark for new powers or changes otherwise Alt Forms would have been marked.
6) Suggest to Bold or Change the Font (larger or type) to draw the eye to each Power. This bothered me some in the SS3 PDF, I like my eye to fall on something quickly without having to “hunt” for it. Same for “Special Effects” under a power, I felt several times I would miss the options as they blended into the text body of the PDF.
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Lunch....so had some more time to read:
1) Add to List of Sites at the back: SuperSystem Yahoo Group
This was left out! Sorry!
2) Set Animal Appendix to Two Colum, save you a few pages. Small savings at the printer.
These sorts of issues will be handled when we do layout. This is just rules text at this point, so we'll be looking economize when we reach that stage.
3) Animal Appendix: Herd has Armor x1, all other animals changed.
Whoops! I will nix that!
4) P31, Alt Forms Power: Love the “Animal Only” but would suggest players pay extra for “larger” forms over X points, 5 points for a T-Rex form wow! I will test this out.
The way this power works, you're re-allocating your own points--so you'd have 70 pts. to spend on your dino form anyway. The animals section provides a handy guideline. At 70 points, you can easily afford anything in the Animals section. You still have to obey all campaign build limits.
5) P30, states * is “stackable” what is #? This is next to: Climbing, Darkness, Edge, Escape Artist, Extra Movement, Flare, Force Dome, Instant Stand, Marksman, Perfect Timing, Ranged Attack and Weapon. As far as I can tell it isn’t a mark for new powers or changes otherwise Alt Forms would have been marked.
Stackable means it counts against the dice pool cap, and the # means it can be taken by characters with the Normal Human designation--not usually an issue in standard games, as most characters on your team, even ones like Hawkeye and Cap, are not really Normal Humans and would not get that designator. See page 30 for the Sidebar text on Normal Humans.
6) Suggest to Bold or Change the Font (larger or type) to draw the eye to each Power. This bothered me some in the SS3 PDF, I like my eye to fall on something quickly without having to “hunt” for it. Same for “Special Effects” under a power, I felt several times I would miss the options as they blended into the text body of the PDF.
Ok, we'll consider this when we get to the layout stage.
Thanks!
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Thanks for the quick responses back. Yea, missed the # under normal humans. Reading too fast while chomping down my lunch! lol
As for the dino power, that was first impressions and I am sure it is fine but I will give it a go within the next night or two...I have some plastic dinos that need to stretch their legs!
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Concerning supersheet, it would be easier to read if the stats (stk, str, dge, etc...) were written in a "reader friendly" typo (helvetica, or even a nice serif).
When I was in graphics arts school, we learned to use 2 contrasted fonts for any document. One for title (like the "comics" one you're using) and one easier to read, printer friendly.
the "read" font can be declined in diferent styles then (condensed, light, bold, italic, etc..). Apparently, it's some kind of a rule in print design world.
I often saw (especially in indie productions) too much use of icons and "fantasy" fonts for everything. It makes the documents harder to read, and give the reader a false feeling of a hard to understand ruleset.
But maybe I'm speaking for nothing and perhaps it's just a rough work in progress sheet.
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Concerning supersheet, it would be easier to read if the stats (stk, str, dge, etc...) were written in a "reader friendly" typo (helvetica, or even a nice serif).
But maybe I'm speaking for nothing and perhaps it's just a rough work in progress sheet.
Concerning, the sheet, I did not see an issue with it, but we can certainly make adjustments if enough folks express the same opinion. It will likely change a little as we firm up the dimensions of the book, and changing the fonts to be more readable for folks should be easy!
Thanks!
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Just finished my break, spent some time reading the SoloSystem...saw two things:
1) P128, has Raise instead of Raze (as in raze the city to the ground).
2) P125, Starting at the example there are some references to ATT and should be STK.
Really interested in trying the SoloSystem out tonight or tomorrow I hope....
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So first impressions after a read through and a brief look at the character design rules.
With each of the attributes now being a discreet dice pool unto itself rather than the pools sharing a common attribute root in 3rd makes character creation a bit more of a thinker that it used to be. With the cost of super support for powers now being a multiplier rather than a fixed cost per level powers like damaging aura get really expensive, and it was a pretty costly power under 3rd ed., making them less desirable or the sole focus of your characters ability. With a decrease of 10BP to the basic cost of heroes powers like invisibility, another high ticket item, really take a bite out of your total.
Having seven attributes to account for in basic character creation means that you use up at least as many BP as you did under 3rd and are 10BP down for creating powers. Although the super attribute cost is lower by 2BP than previously it only affects one pool rather than the two pools of the previous edition meaning you have to spend more to get a similar effect.
All this lends itself to a generally smaller set of dice pools than under third and that most characters will be highly specialized in one area. So far it's looking like strike is the place to put my BP in the hope of generating the additional net goals to boost the average level strength or damage pools I'll be left with.
Swiss Tony and I are going to give it a first run through on Monday and tomorrow I will be building my first few teams to see how far off the mark my perceptions are re pool sizes! ;)
The game play looks to be exactly what we are used to with 3rd but there are a couple of new things, especially the parry-riposte manoeuvre, that I am looking forward to trying out. The only thing that worries me is that with the smaller pools and the game rules being the same as before it might feel like a watered down version of the last edition. The proof of the pudding, however, will be in the eating so I'll be back on Tuesday with (hopefully) a battle report and some discussion points should any arise.
***Caveat to all of the above***
We tend to play in the Marvel universe rather than creating our own characters so are trying to replicate powers and abilities rather than come up with something of our own invention which will always lead to a skewed perspective on the rules set. The long and the short of it is we're probably trying harder to make the rules allow us to create the characters we expect rather than creating the characters the rules are designed for.
Stay lucky,
Moany Old git of London...
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The font was very easy to read. I had no issues with it.
As for the builds, I like it. It makes sense to me, I guess cause the 4 shared attributes still confuses me at times, I always had to refer to the book. The newer way seems much clearer. Keep in mind I have no one to show me this game. I pick up rules better after I see some gameplay.
As for build powers, they do seem a tad bit more costly than the old system. I don't see this as a problem per se, I see it like inflation. The old system may be 75 points seems like a lot of powers, but under the new build to get the same powers might cost 100 BP. Game totals just go up.
WHen you do the Kick starter. Please make a few gameplay videos of a few rounds of combat. Also do one on character creation. I think this would have helped me with S3 a lot better.
I am liking so far...
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+1 for character creation video... it has been the one thing holding me back from having a game.
I am slowly getting my head around making my own characters but the characters from Marvel or DC have been tricky to figure out.
LGW
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Folks, thanks for the early feedback. Sightly smaller dice pools should be the norm in the standard, 75 pt. game. I think to do proper, high-power Avengers or Justice League characters you might need to move up to 100 pts., but YMMV on that.
I personally like playing with smaller dice pools and like the feel of the 75 pt. level in this 4th ed. of the game. If you have trouble making characters, do check out the archetypes section at the end of the chargen chapter. I feel like the examples there can provide some guidance, especially the Metamorph, who I think shows just what kind of versatility you can get from using ECPs.
Anyway, keep the comments coming here and in e-mail. I am tweaking and editing as folks find things, and point new things out to me.
Thanks!
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On page 67 "Cunning" references the ATT stat, which I believe has become STK.
On page 77 under "Boon" the initial listing says it would be 2 points, but in the example it adds 5 points.
You might consider adding an appendix with a table of powers and point costs for quick reference.
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Yeah noticed a couple of instances off ATT instead of STK. When I run through again I will list all I find.
That being said I prefer ATT to STK what with it sitting next to STR on the stat line. ATT is so distinctly different from STR that you don't need to re-read it to be sure you are checking the correct stat. Sometimes the sentences can read a little dense with both STK and STR in there and for new players who are unfamiliar with the game it would certainly help to remember which stat did what if you had an 'A' stat and an 'S' stat instead of two 'S' stats next to each other and often interacting with each other in sentences when learning the rules.
As someone already familiar with the system it didn't help me remember which new abbreviation governed which aspect of the game when two of them were so very similar. The two or three typos with ATT that I have noticed so far have actually been kind of easier to understand and have stood out as different precisely because they were so much more readily grasped.
'Will he ever not moan?'
'Will he actually say something positive at some point?'
Stay tuned to find out...
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Yeah noticed a couple of instances off ATT instead of STK. When I run through again I will list all I find.
Thanks! I think I found and purged most of those now!
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Yeah noticed a couple of instances off ATT instead of STK. When I run through again I will list all I find.
That being said I prefer ATT to STK what with it sitting next to STR on the stat line. ATT is so distinctly different from STR that you don't need to re-read it to be sure you are checking the correct stat. Sometimes the sentences can read a little dense with both STK and STR in there and for new players who are unfamiliar with the game it would certainly help to remember which stat did what if you had an 'A' stat and an 'S' stat instead of two 'S' stats next to each other and often interacting with each other in sentences when learning the rules.
As someone already familiar with the system it didn't help me remember which new abbreviation governed which aspect of the game when two of them were so very similar. The two or three typos with ATT that I have noticed so far have actually been kind of easier to understand and have stood out as different precisely because they were so much more readily grasped.
'Will he ever not moan?'
'Will he actually say something positive at some point?'
Stay tuned to find out...
I've made that mistake a couple times as well. If it reverted to ATT - or my preference ATK - each stat would start with a different letter making them easier to quickly identify.
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I've made that mistake a couple times as well. If it reverted to ATT - or my preference ATK - each stat would start with a different letter making them easier to quickly identify.
I am hoping that once folks internalize the rules and the abbreviations, it won't be a big issue. We'll see, though.
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Folks, these two new abilities needed to go into the play-test doc and did not. They will go into the next one:
POWER
EXTRA ATTACKS
BP Cost: 2 pts.
AP Cost: none
Effects: The model can attack faster than normal. Possible special effects include speed, multiple limbs, time distortion, etc. Models with this power can use the Flurry maneuver at only +1 AP (instead of the normal +3 AP) and can grab resisting models at 2 AP instead of 4.
BOON
MULTIPLE LIMBS
BP Cost: 1 pt./level
AP Cost: none
Effects: The model possesses more than the normal complement of limbs for a standard human. Each rank in this power allows the model to hold onto an extra model/item during grabs. When holding more than one model, they may attempt to apply their Str damage to all models grabbed, but when doing so, the targets get +2D to their Tou rolls. When squeezing only one model, that target does not gain the Tou bonus.
Note that 1 level in this boon grants the character any number of limbs, however additional ranks give you access to controlling more items/models at the same time.
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Just putting my team together for my game with Soapy on Monday night and I've decided to go with an Invaders themed force using the Archetypes, but I think there is an error in the "He Just won't Quit!" build, I think the Weapon 6D is overstated s it would take the build 7 points over.....
So far I really like what I've read!
More no doubt from Soapy and me after our game!
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I just whipped up two characters at lunch today, figure a few more tonight and this weekend and play a SoloSystem two game night I hope this Sunday or Monday.
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On Alternate Forms for the "Animal Only" option....does the character:
1) Pick one animal form and has to buy "extra forms" to take other animal forms
or
2) Can just pick anything on the list when they use the power each time?
The wording under Animal Only may need to be tightened up if it is along option 2.
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Just putting my team together for my game with Soapy on Monday night and I've decided to go with an Invaders themed force using the Archetypes, but I think there is an error in the "He Just won't Quit!" build, I think the Weapon 6D is overstated s it would take the build 7 points over.....
Hmm, we have 21 pts. to work with there, so let's break it down ("cost" of each line in brackets):
-- +1D Res (+1 Vitality) [= +2 pts. ]
-- +2D Tou [= +4 pts.]
-- -2D Dge [= -4 pts.]
-- Remove Super-Dge [= -4 pts.]
-- -1D Stk [= -2 pts.]
-- +2D Per [= +4 pts.]
-- Super-Tou x 1 [= +4 pts.]
-- Regeneration [= +5 pts.]
-- Weapon +6D [= +9 pts.]
-- Super x 1 [= +2 pts.]
-- Extra Vitality x 1 [= +1 pt.]
Total = 21 pts.
So it looks right to me.
So far I really like what I've read!
More no doubt from Soapy and me after our game!
Thanks!
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Hi Scott,
Per page 66 the cost of adding super to weapon is a 1.5 multiplier per level not 2 points. Let me know if this is wrong.
Cheers
Tony
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Hi Scott,
Per page 66 the cost of adding super to weapon is a 1.5 multiplier per level not 2 points. Let me know if this is wrong.
Cheers
Tony
Weapon costs 1.5 pts. per level, but then go to the Super power on page 62--we break the costs for Super for powers down there:
1.5 pts. = [2/5/7]
3 pts. = [5/9/14]
4 pts. = [6/12/18]
5 pts. = [8/15/23]
6 pts. = [9/18/27]
7 pts. = [11/21/32]
It's 2 pts. for Super x 1.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I can see where this might be confusing, so I added some additional language to clarify:
WEAPON*#
BP Cost: variable
AP Cost: none
Effects: The character possesses a special ability, combat technique, or melee combat weapon that adds dice to Str goal rolls and grab/entangle escape attempts. The cost breakdown for this power is:
+1D = 2 pts.
+2D = 3 pts.
+3D = 5 pts.
+4D = 6 pts.
+5D = 8 pts.
+6D = 9 pts.
+7D = 11 pts.
For purposes of calculating the cost of Super for this power, treat the base cost of Weapon as 1.5 pts./level (see Super on pg. XX).
-
On Alternate Forms for the "Animal Only" option....does the character:
1) Pick one animal form and has to buy "extra forms" to take other animal forms
or
2) Can just pick anything on the list when they use the power each time?
The wording under Animal Only may need to be tightened up if it is along option 2.
Styx, as it stands now, Alt. Form really just provides a single, alt. profile you can assume. If you want to do Changeling or Chameleon Boy, I'd say look at the Metamorph archetype I did at the end of the chargen chapter. It uses a straight ECP to accomplish the "spirit" of multiple forms. You can also use ECP's with the Alternate Form power to make more drastic alt. forms. YMMV on this.
Ok, talked with Dave and we decided you can assume any animal form from the Appendix, so I will clarify this!
Thanks!
-
Thanks Scott,
I understand now, one last question on the subject of the "He Just Won't Quit" build with Str 4 and Wpn 6D and only 1 lvl od Super seems a few points have been wasted as this would give a 10D attack which would require 2 lvls of Super.
Cheers
Tony
-
Thanks Scott,
I understand now, one last question on the subject of the "He Just Won't Quit" build with Str 4 and Wpn 6D and only 1 lvl od Super seems a few points have been wasted as this would give a 10D attack which would require 2 lvls of Super.
Cheers
Tony
Yea, I found a few tweaks to improve the base examples but they are just that something to give you a quick idea.
-
Thanks Scott,
I understand now, one last question on the subject of the "He Just Won't Quit" build with Str 4 and Wpn 6D and only 1 lvl od Super seems a few points have been wasted as this would give a 10D attack which would require 2 lvls of Super.
Cheers
Tony
Mistake! I will fix that--adjusting Weapon down to +4D and upping Per and maybe something else. Thanks!
Here you go, a "fixed" version:
He Just Won't Quit!
-------------------
-- +1D Res (+1 Vitality)
-- +2D Tou
-- -2D Dge, Remove Super-Dge
-- -1D Stk, +3D Per
-- Super-Tou x 1, Regeneration
-- Weapon +4D, Super x 1
-- Extra Vitality x 2
-
Just been going through the solosystem and I'm a little confused.
In the various A.I.s there are recurring mentions of a 2AP action (generally taken by a mastermind) to negate the compulsive action of the A.I. type. How is this administrated?
Would the mastermind have to take all of the required 2AP actions during his turn allowing each of the affected team mates to act against their A.I. in their next activation?
or
Would the affected team member 'borrow' 2AP from the masterminds AP pool to negate the A.I. effect leaving the mastermind with 2AP less (per teammate who needed it) for his next turn?
or
Something else?
Is the 2AP action limited by range? Is it limited only by LOS for the consume drive?
Can minion, power and wealth drives be overridden or are they only able to attack enemy models? For instance if I had a minion who I wanted to use the parry/riposte combat manoeuvre could they? Their drive says they will always target the nearest foe with their best attack option meaning they couldn't run interference for their boss instead. I note the last paragraph which seems to suggest they could. I assume that the drives come in in situations where:
A) The character is compelled to do something by their drive. (unless negated by the 2AP action)
B) You have nothing better for them to do (like my parry) so they defer to their drive behaviour.
Does pushing act in the same way as edge for DFM characters.
Want to have a bash at solosystem some time over the weekend but that 2AP action is messing with my head! ???
-
Just been going through the solosystem and I'm a little confused.
In the various A.I.s there are recurring mentions of a 2AP action (generally taken by a mastermind) to negate the compulsive action of the A.I. type. How is this administrated?
Would the mastermind have to take all of the required 2AP actions during his turn allowing each of the affected team mates to act against their A.I. in their next activation?
or
Would the affected team member 'borrow' 2AP from the masterminds AP pool to negate the A.I. effect leaving the mastermind with 2AP less (per teammate who needed it) for his next turn?
or
Something else?
Is the 2AP action limited by range? Is it limited only by LOS for the consume drive?
Soaps, I added this in:
Mastermind Special Action: A number of drives require a Mastermind action to counter their effects. This is always a 2 AP action, paid either on the Mastermind’s turn, or on the affected model’s turn. In the latter case, the mastermind begins his next turn with -2 AP. The mastermind must be able to see the affected model in order to use this action.
Can minion, power and wealth drives be overridden or are they only able to attack enemy models? For instance if I had a minion who I wanted to use the parry/riposte combat manoeuvre could they? Their drive says they will always target the nearest foe with their best attack option meaning they couldn't run interference for their boss instead. I note the last paragraph which seems to suggest they could. I assume that the drives come in in situations where:
A) The character is compelled to do something by their drive. (unless negated by the 2AP action)
B) You have nothing better for them to do (like my parry) so they defer to their drive behaviour.
Yes, if there's no other obvious options, that's where the Drives come in. In other instances, logic should prevail!
Does pushing act in the same way as edge for DFM characters.
Yes, seems like it should!
-
Lovely-jubbly! Cheers for the quick reply. Did you get my rambling e-mail?
-
Lovely-jubbly! Cheers for the quick reply. Did you get my rambling e-mail?
I did, thanks! I am now focused on processing feedback on the play-test so far, but a lot of the stuff you suggested really lends itself more to full RPG sessions.
Good stuff in there in any case.
Also, working on a re-vamp of my old rues nemesis, Invisibility, so look for that in the next iteration of the play-test doc. You will like it as it should be cheaper and more closely synced to Darkness, which we're renaming.
-
Back for more!
Kinetic absorption.
This is one that used to stump me in 3rd ed. as well but as it's in 4th I'll ask anyway. Is there any reason that I'm not seeing for pumping dice into your TOU?
The rules states that in your next turn you can add dice to the stated pools and they fade at the end of the turn. I can't find any instance where you can use your TOU pool during your turn meaning buffing it would be pointless. It would be a useful repository for points if it took effect immediately or lasted until the end of your following turn but as it stands now putting dice into TOU serves no purpose I can find. Help!
The new version of the sponge special effect seems over priced. Given that a re-roll is in essence an additional dice to your pool (assuming only that you don't score goals with every dice you throw) why would you purchase a 3BP situational level of super instead of a 2BP extra dice in the governing attribute or a 4BP genuine level of super that will also be giving you either an AP or Vit bump? I suppose the obvious answer is that your governing attribute is maxed out at it's current level of super support and you only have 3BP left to spend building your character but even then I would think you were better off putting an activation roll (1) on the power and taking the full super attribute.
Entangle.
When escaping an entangle the rule states that for every goal the escaping model scores on an unsuccessful escape the strength of the entangle is reduced by 1D for the next escape attempt and the escapee remains entangled. The wording is essentially the same from last edition and it strikes me we may have been playing it wrong.
As we have played it even on a loosing attempt if the dice remaining in the entangle were reduced to 0D the target was considered to have escaped.
As it is written though even if the escapee rolls sufficient goals to reduce the dice pool to 0D yet fails to beat the entangles total (for example the entagle pool is down to 1D and scores 2 goals whilst the escapee scores only 1 goal, sufficient to reduce the entangle pool to 0D) he would still count as entangled and would have to pay the 4AP to make another escape attempt even though they cannot fail to escape (as even scoring 0 goals would tie the entangle and allow escape). Is this correct?
I'm also thinking that we were using armoured wrong this whole time. We were foolishly using it as a pool augment for regular entangles so a 9D entangle was getting a 5D armour pool which was rolled alongside the entangle pool (for a total of 14D) when resisting escape attempts. As the entangle value was reduced the armour pool stayed at 5D until the escapee got out. I'm assuming this was way off base! For clarification is the armoured special effect only of use to walls seeing as no other type of entangle can be damaged per se?
Invisibility.
I know you are working on it but the current version says +2D to STK for attack and defence where I think it should say +2D to STK and DGE whilst in melee.
Marksman.
Can existing levels of super STK support the marksman power or does it need it's own super? Likewise for weapon and super STR.
Reach.
I'm assuming the answer to these two questions are 'no' but as the rules makes mention of 'in the same way as standard ranged attacks' reach could be considered a 'non-standard' ranged attack.
Does a character using reach within 3" provide the the point plank range defence bonus?
Does a character using reach provide the target the firing into close combat defence bonus?
Boon.
Cost is listed as 2BP but example 2 says ' with the 1 pt. boon power modifier'
The silver knight example says 'he upgrades it to a boon for 5 pts.'
Density increase.
The example states that 'he can move up to 7" for his charge'. At a 1.5 multiplier I make it 11" for his charge (7AP).
Activation cost.
I notice the ability to 'borrow' AP from your next turn has been removed. I assume this is intentional but wonder why flexibility is being removed from a system about superheroes (who by defenition can do all kinds of crazy stuff normal folk can't). I used to run a Captain America with a force field 5D+super 1- activation cost 3 allowing me to squeeze a bit more goodness into my character. With a split DGE pool I could still do it but the removal of the borrowing aspect of the power mod reduces the effectiveness and flexibility of the power. It seems odd to be removing things that add variety and diversity to characters.
Henchmen.
Having just ranted about removal of variety I notice that the maximum levels of super for henchmen groups has been removed. Is this intentional or an omission?
Yeah that'll probably do it for the bitchin' and moaning this time round.
Sorry for making you suffer through this and sorry Scott for always sounding so damn negative! :'(
-
Back for more!
Kinetic absorption.
This is one that used to stump me in 3rd ed. as well but as it's in 4th I'll ask anyway. Is there any reason that I'm not seeing for pumping dice into your TOU?
The rules states that in your next turn you can add dice to the stated pools and they fade at the end of the turn. I can't find any instance where you can use your TOU pool during your turn meaning buffing it would be pointless. It would be a useful repository for points if it took effect immediately or lasted until the end of your following turn but as it stands now putting dice into TOU serves no purpose I can find. Help!
Fixed!!!!
KINETIC ABSORPTION
BP Cost: 10 pts.
AP Cost: none
Effects: The model is capable of absorbing some or all of the damage dealt to it from physical attacks and shifting it into temporary Attribute increases. Whenever the model takes damage from a physical (Stk-based) attack, make a Mnd or Res goal roll (player's choice). For every two goals scored on the roll, subtract one point of vitality loss. Until the end of the model's next turn, it can add dice equal to the vitality points absorbed to its Stk, Dge, Str, or Tou dice pools in any combination. These added points fade at the end of the model's turn. A model may not add more than 6 total points per round to its pools in this way, and it cannot add more than 3 points per round to a single pool. Vitality in excess of this may still be absorbed, but further pool increases are not allowed. These pool increases do not affect a model's Vitality or Action Points, and they can exceed the dice pool cap.
Example: The Sponge is struck by a haymaker from Stoneflower, suffering 4 points of vitality loss. Luckily for him, the Sponge possesses Kinetic Absorption. He rolls his Res and scores 4 goals, absorbing 2 of the 4 Vitality points he would have lost. His player marks down the two points of damage he did take, and notes that until the end of his next turn, he will have 2D to add to one of the following: Stk, Str, Dge, or Tou.
Special Effects
Charge (+3 pts.): The model may choose to use points of vitality loss absorbed to enhance the damage dice of its Ranged Attack power. On the model's next turn, it can add any vitality points absorbed as damage dice to its Ranged Attack dice pool. A model may not add more than 4D of damage per round to its attack. Dice added in this way fade at the end of the model's turn.
Sponge (+3 pts./level): The model is capable of soaking up kinetic energy like a sponge! Models with the Sponge special effect count as having +1 level of Super-Mnd or Super-Res (player’s choice) for any Kinetic Absorption attempts.
The new version of the sponge special effect seems over priced. Given that a re-roll is in essence an additional dice to your pool (assuming only that you don't score goals with every dice you throw) why would you purchase a 3BP situational level of
Yeah, you pretty much nailed why I did it that way this time around. I'll talk to Dave about lowering the cost from 3 pts. to 2 pts. I really wanted to move away from a lot of dice adder special effects. This was a way to do that.
Entangle...
Let me check with Dave on this. We need to tighten up that language and make sure it's clearer.
Invisibility.
I know you are working on it but the current version says +2D to STK for attack and defence where I think it should say +2D to STK and DGE whilst in melee.
This will pretty much totally get changed. We're dropping Invisibility into Darkness, and changing the name to "Cloak", with Invisibility as a special effect. Still working it out.
Marksman.
Can existing levels of super STK support the marksman power or does it need it's own super? Likewise for weapon and super STR.
Yes--any adder power can be covered by its "parent" Super-Attribute.
Reach.
I'm assuming the answer to these two questions are 'no' but as the rules makes mention of 'in the same way as standard ranged attacks' reach could be considered a 'non-standard' ranged attack.
Does a character using reach within 3" provide the the point plank range defence bonus?
I would say yes, but I will think on this some more and add in language to clarify. Elasticity would need to be altered as well to clarify this.
Does a character using reach provide the target the firing into close combat defence bonus?
Again, I will think on this some more, but I would say no.
Boon.
Cost is listed as 2BP but example 2 says ' with the 1 pt. boon power modifier'
2 pts. should be the cost. I fixed this.
Density increase.
The example states that 'he can move up to 7" for his charge'. At a 1.5 multiplier I make it 11" for his charge (7AP).
Fixed -- 11" it is!
Activation cost.
I notice the ability to 'borrow' AP from your next turn has been removed. I assume this is intentional but wonder why flexibility is being removed from a system about superheroes (who by definition can do all kinds of crazy stuff normal folk can't). I used to run a Captain America with a force field 5D+super 1- activation cost 3 allowing me to squeeze a bit more goodness into my character. With a split DGE pool I could still do it but the removal of the borrowing aspect of the power mod reduces the effectiveness and flexibility of the power. It seems odd to be removing things that add variety and diversity to characters.
I'll talk with Dave about this and get back to you.
Henchmen.
Having just ranted about removal of variety I notice that the maximum levels of super for henchmen groups has been removed. Is this intentional or an omission?
Intentional. With the extra attributes to pay for, I figured that buying your attribute and powers will act as a natural limiter on levels. And this way, you can do the Leader's Humanoids and give them Super-Toughness x 2, making them really hard to hurt, but not much else.
Sorry for making you suffer through this and sorry Scott for always sounding so damn negative! :'(
Don't apologize! You're always super respectful, and you ask great questions! You're making the rules better! So I should thank you!
--Scott
-
Filthy team of filthiness!
So here is my team for my play test with Swiss Tony (don't worry Swiss, Monday will be my Archetypes team but next time we play... :D)
The design philosophy for the team is:
Try new powers, or power builds that allow me to test new aspects of the rules. Be as dirty as possible, just cos.
So first up Holdfast:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-soDiimDo2-k/UvflH4U3UYI/AAAAAAAACM8/OfsoeTKp9FU/w496-h468-no/Holdfast.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7oWiihT1Tuk/UvfsyVOFWKI/AAAAAAAACNs/pZgIHYYKFiU/w234-h348-no/HF+stat.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-32eMbBTrJ6g/UvfszO0KI5I/AAAAAAAACN8/mi5RFMN0Mpk/w233-h347-no/drone+stat.jpg)
Holdfast is designed purely for defence, that's not to say he won't attack but generally his attacks will be reactions using his reflection and the parry/repost manoeuvre. His combat drones are there to be a speed bump, they'll get in the way of incoming enemies and allow Holdfast to get where he needs to be. If there is a vital choke point Holdfast has a good chance of blocking it up.
Next is his partner in crime Arachnattack:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eTuvxISYmpg/UvflGwU92xI/AAAAAAAACMs/C_b90xFFi00/w388-h460-no/Arachattack.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Kcv4IDy8A_4/UvfszCIdcfI/AAAAAAAACOA/LMFSJXcZWQk/w233-h346-no/arachnattack+stat.jpg)
Arachnattack teams up with Holdfast and generally tries to stay in base contact with him. Holdfast can do plenty of defending for the both of them and with Arachnattack's extra attacks and reach he can generate as many attacks as two regular characters. Seeing as he will likely be flurrying quite a lot he wont be carrying over any bonus dice so his damage pool is nice and big! His high dodge helps Holdfast when it comes to defending them both with the parry repost manoeuvre.
Third man in is Angelfire:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5uYAroWzblc/UvflGk2p-sI/AAAAAAAACMk/uRSF-wGSNIY/w349-h454-no/Angelfire.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j02ZhCLI5BI/UvfsyfDrayI/AAAAAAAACOE/H0ffY8BAh-4/w232-h349-no/angelfire+stat.jpg)
Angelfire tries never to be caught on the ground. Taking off is a little taxing for him but once he is up there he needn't land. With a hypermove, extra attack and combat reflexes Angelfire can attack zip about the table attacking up to three enemies a turn all without landing! Again he will rarely if ever be carrying any dice over so he has a healthy DMG pool and cunning for when he really needs a bucket o'dice to be sure of putting the hurt on.
The fourth man is the creepy Ghostmage:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KXsumHJwViU/UvflG6JHPpI/AAAAAAAACMo/FXSOOfZqQa4/w372-h573-no/Ghostmage.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9hZb9rJR-TI/Uvfs0DmnzDI/AAAAAAAACOc/kwcaVSKo4oE/w233-h347-no/ghostmage+stat.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XcfUsx7MREk/Uvfs0Dq_HhI/AAAAAAAACOY/wJLXC0J0p4o/w232-h347-no/fire+imps+stat.jpg)
The team mentalist Ghostmage will very rarely have to worry about being physically harmed due to his incorporeal nature and his mental defences are well taken care of! This one is a little bit tricksy and may need some explaining.
So his mind attack power has 5 levels of slow power. Slow power says it can be used on powers that already require AP to use and the power description for mind attack says it takes 3AP to use. Now the slow power is strictly speaking attached to the damage pool of this power so should Ghostmage hit the target of his ranged attack he would then need to spend 5AP do make the damage roll. Seems sensible to me. Mentalists tend to have a lot of AP left over at the end of their turn so I decided to find a way to make use of them and bringing down the cost of mind attack (in BP) was certainly worth it.
Generally Ghostmage will be a mental sniper. With second sight and scope he can sit pretty much anywhere on the board and have a good chance at hurting someone. An aimed mind attack will cost 6AP and the damage roll will cost 5AP. Finally a mentalist who makes full use of his action points! Accompanying Ghostmage are his fire imp familiars. Much like the defence drones they are a mere speed bump in case someone dangerous comes calling and with their one shot ranged attack they can help stave of the baddies whilst Ghostmage pops craniums across the battlefield.
Last up is the mighty Core!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Uja6tawf7Qk/UvftPEO5c7I/AAAAAAAACPQ/PrIoBVgAG14/w344-h612-no/core.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fTyTP6m_7m8/Uvfs0Bi9OAI/AAAAAAAACOU/DEoF5p45MqQ/w231-h345-no/the+Core+stat.jpg)(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AUpxzOSJsgw/UvfsyVuKBmI/AAAAAAAACNo/DsGnxbdIlZE/w232-h346-no/Infuser+stat.jpg)
So the Core is a pretty big fella! I really just wanted to make a giant character with a sidekick and to be honest the Core isn't great at a lot of things but when it comes to standing in front of people and making a spectacle of himself he's all about it! Tactician and fortune allow him to help out his buddies whilst he absorbs blow after blow. His real job though is to distract people from noticing the infuser his tiny (by his standards) sidekick. Infuser had a physical only boost power and her job will be to help out Arachnattack and Holdfast with a cheeky stat boost when they need it. The Core will probably carry her around to keep her safe and then pop her down so that she can stroll in and buff the other two guys. If I'm not careful she could be easily smooshed but she should be in base contact with Holdfast so he can protect her until the Core can grab her away to safety.
So there we have it I'll be running a team that forces me to make use of the new combat manoeuvre as well as testing out a brand new power on two different types of hero. I've pretty thoroughly abused the henchman power and we'll see if I could have spend the 1 and 3 BP better. Now if Scott stay's quiet that means I haven't broken the system. I fully expect for this team to be torn to shreds (design wise) pretty shortly... :(
Excuse the silly illustrations it just helps me get a handle on the characters. When I play the team it'll probably be Captain America as Holdfast (drones may be a teaser...) Superior Spider-Man as Arachnattack (d'uh!) Falcon, Iron Man or someone like that as Angelfire, astral form Dr Strange as Ghostmage and Giant Man and Wasp as the Core and Infuser (Wasp doesn't really work like that but she is forever giving people little pep talks so I'm taking it!)
Cheers,
Soaps.
-
I was studying the archetypes and for two of the base models the listed build points don't match what I come up with.
For the brick base I get 52 instead of 60.
Base stats less one:
4-1=3
7-1=6
3-1=2
7-1=6
2-1=1
4-1=3
2-1=1
Total of above:
3+6+2+6+1+3+1=22
Multiply by two:
22*2=44
Add four for each super stat:
44+4+4=52
And for the mentalist base I get 42 instead of 50.
Base stats less one:
2-1=1
2-1=1
4-1=3
3-1=2
6-1=5
5-1=4
4-1=3
Total of above:
1+1+3+2+5+4+3=19
Multiply by two:
19*2=38
Add four for the super stat:
38+4=42
-
I think the Blaster and speedster are wrong too.
Blaster:
42 for attributes
18 for ranged attack
4 for super STK
super for ranged attack is supposed to be 5BP but it looks like it was costed in there at 2BP.
The speedster seems to come in at 60BP rather than the listed 66BP
-
P74 power mods on attributes.
In the example it says 'This 50% reduction means that the second 4D costs only 2 pts.'
4D of TOU at 50% off should be 4BP.
-
Soaps, I will check and fix this stuff. Thanks!
-
Ok, I think I fixed them, but likely with a whole new raft of math errors! o_o
Mentalist too!
===================
=== The Blaster ===
===================
Whether hurling bolts of energy from their hands, or firing deadly beams from
their eyes, blasters are the long-ranged specialists of the superhero genre.
Many blasters possess inherent power, but others rely on special weapons to get
the job done. No matter what form it takes, blasters represent a ranged threat
foes ignore at their peril.
BP: 67 + package options
AP: 10
Attributes
Stk 8[1] Str 2 Dge 4 Tou 4
Mnd 2 Res 4 Per 3
Powers
Ranged Attack (6D)
Super x 1 (Ranged Attack)
Super-Stk x 1
Vitality: 6
================================
=== Finishing Packages (+8 pts.) ===
================================
Death from Above
----------------
-- -1D Tou (-1 Vitality)
-- Flight
The Fast Blaster
-------------------
-- Extra Movement x 7
-- Instant Stand
Fate’s Gunner
-------------------
-- Fortune x 2
Guardian
-------------------
-- -2D Stk (-2 AP)
-- -2D Ranged Attack, remove Super
-- Force Dome (4D)
-- +1D Res (+1 Vitality)
-- Pushing
Marksman
-------------------
-- Scope x 3
-- +1D Per
===================
=== The Brawler ===
===================
Bloodthirsty battlers, brave soldiers of freedom, swashbuckling mutants, and
martial arts masters are just a few examples of the brawler in comics. They
may not pack the raw power of the brick, but they can be just as deadly up close.
Whether they rely on weapons, berserker's fury, or supreme skill, they can
bring even the mightiest foes down!
BP: 54 + package options
AP: 10
Attributes
Stk 8[1] Str 4 Dge 7[1] Tou 4
Mnd 2 Res 3 Per 2
Powers
Super-Stk x 1
Super-Dge x 1
Vitality: 7
================================
=== Finishing Packages (+21 pts.) ===
================================
The Dark Avenger
-------------
-- +1D Mnd (+1 AP)
-- -1D Dge
-- Edge x 3
-- Gadget Pool (6 pts., 2 Full Slots, 2 Half Slots)
--- Pool Options: Climbing, Darkness, Reach +3”, Super Leap
He Just Won't Quit!
-------------------
-- +1D Res (+1 Vitality)
-- +2D Tou
-- -2D Dge, Remove Super-Dge
-- -1D Stk, +3D Per
-- Super-Tou x 1, Regeneration
-- Weapon +4D, Super x 1
-- Extra Vitality x 2
Lucky Striker
-------------------
-- +1D Str
-- Fortune x 3
-- Edge x 3
-- Instant Stand
-- Pushing
-- Sense Weakness
The Shield Slinger
-------------------
-- +2D Res (+2 Vitality)
-- +1D Str
-- +1D Tou
-- +1D Per
-- Extra Movement x 2
-- Instant Stand
-- Reach +5”
-- Tactician x 1
=================
=== The Brick ===
=================
In the comics bricks are super-strong heroes or thugs. Sometimes they're
sympathetic monsters, and sometimes they're just plain big and bad. A brick
can come in almost any shape or size, and some of the best bricks are small of
stature or slight of build, packing a surprising wallop in their tiny frames!
BP: 56 + package options
AP: 7
Attributes
Stk 5 Str 7[1] Dge 4 Tou 7[1]
Mnd 2 Res 4 Per 2
Powers
Super-Str x 1
Super-Tou x 1
Vitality: 12
================================
=== Finishing Packages (+19 pts.) ===
================================
The Immovable Object
-------------------
-- -3D Tou (-3 Vitality)
-- Remove Super-Tou (-1 Vitality)
-- +1D Res (+1 Vitality)
-- Bodyguard
-- Density Increase
-- Extra Vitality x 3
-- Knockback Resistance x 8
The Irresistible Force
-------------------
-- -1D Tou (-1 Vitality), +1D Str
-- Rage
-- Regeneration
-- Super-Str +2
-- Super Leap
Stupendous Man (or Woman)
-------------------
-- Flight
-- +1D Dge
-- Pushing
-- Super-Tou +1 (+1 Vitality)
Thunder God
-------------------
-- Elemental Control Pool (11 pts., 2 Full Slots)
--- Pool Options: Ranged Attack 5D (Short Range), Flight
=====================
=== The Mentalist ===
=====================
Masters of the mind and will, mentalists tread the vast space of human
consciousness and wield psychic energy as easily as a normal person would a gun
or a knife. Some mentalists dominate minds, while others just focus on frying
them! Though often unassuming in appearance, enemy super-teams quickly learn
to fear these deadly mind warriors.
BP: 42 + package options
AP: 9
Attributes
Stk 2 Str 2 Dge 4 Tou 3
Mnd 6[1] Res 5 Per 4
Powers
Super-Mnd x 1
Vitality: 7
================================
=== Finishing Packages (+33 pts.) ===
================================
Brain Burner
------------
-- +2D Mnd (+2 AP)
-- +1D Dge, +1D Tou
-- Mind Attack (5D)
-- Second Sight
Dominator
---------
-- Dominate x 2
-- Edge x 3
-- Flare (Mnd-based)
The Empath
----------------
-- +2D Per, Super-Per x 1
-- Flare (Mnd-based)
-- Healing
-- Lucky
Mind Over Matter
----------------
-- +2D Mnd (+2 AP)
-- Elemental Control Pool (19 pts., 2 Full Slots)
--- Pool Options: Telekinesis (Levitate Friends, Manipulate Objects, TK Grab);
Force Dome 4D (5” area)
=====================
=== The Metamorph ===
=====================
Taking on the shapes of beasts or creatures of legend, the Metamorph represents the ultimate adapter. Metamorphs need only a moment to shift shape and deal with any surprises the opposing team can muster.
Note: Unlike other Archetypes, the packages presented after the basic profile represent possible Elemental Control Pool (ECP) options that show the creature shapes the character can use his ECP to assume. Since this ECP has the Omni-Power special effect, these packages represent just some of the options available to the player when he spends 2 AP to 'switch forms'.
BP: 75
AP: 6
Attributes
Stk 4 Str 4 Dge 4 Tou 4
Mnd 2 Res 4 Per 4
Powers
Elemental Control Pool (35 BP)
-- Power pool: 19 pts.
-- 1 Full Slot, 2 Half Slots: 8 pts.
-- Omni-Power: 8 Pts.
Vitality: 8
================================
=== ECP Packages (19 pts.) ===
================================
Canny Avatar
------------
-- +3D Per (Half Slot)
-- Super-Per x 3 (Full Slot)
Feral Avatar
------------
-- +3D Stk (Half Slot)
-- Super-Stk x 3 (Full Slot)
Flying Avatar
------------
-- Flight (Full Slot)
--- Carry Object x 1
-- +1D Str (Half Slot)
-- Super-Str x 1 (Half Slot)
Quill Avatar
------------
-- Ranged Attack (5D) (Full Slot)
---Short Range
-- +2D Stk (Half Slot)
-- Super-Str x 1 (Half Slot)
Swift Avatar
------------
-- Extra Movement x 10 (Full Slot)
-- +2D Dge (Half Slot)
-- Super-Dge x 1 (Half Slot)
Strong Avatar
------------
-- Density Increase (Full Slot)
-- +2D Str (Half Slot)
-- Super-Str x 1 (Half Slot)
=================
=== Speedster ===
=================
Moving at breakneck speed across the battlefield, speedsters specialize in getting places fast! Their speed can manifest in numerous ways--blinding movement, time control, and teleportation are but a few of the types encountered in the comics. A speedster's power source will often come from a physical manifestation (like mutation), or from a wondrous technological device. Some speedsters possess devastating rapid attacks than can overwhelm defenses of even the mightiest foes.
BP: 60 + package options
AP: 9
Attributes
Stk 5 Str 3 Dge 6[1] Tou 4
Mnd 4 Res 3 Per 3
Powers
Hyper Movement
--No Penetration
Super-Dge x 1
Vitality: 6
================================
=== Finishing Packages (+15 pts.) ===
================================
Machinegun Puncher
-----------
-- +1D Stk, Super-Stk x 1
-- Extra Attacks
-- Hyper Attack
-- Instant Stand
Speed Demon
-----------
-- -1D Per
-- Hyper Attack
-- Instant Stand
-- Warp x 2
Terrible, Swift Sword
-----------
-- -1D Mnd (-1 AP)
-- +1D Tou, +1D Dge
-- Combat Reflexes
-- Extra Attacks
-- Instant Stand
-- Weapon +4D
-- Super x 1 (Weapon)
The Transporter
-----------
-- +1D Per
-- Hyper Attack
-- Carry Objects x 3
-- Remove No Penetration
-
Fixed!!!!
KINETIC ABSORPTION
BP Cost: 10 pts.
AP Cost: none
Effects: The model is capable of absorbing some or all of the damage dealt to it from physical attacks and shifting it into temporary Attribute increases. Whenever the model takes damage from a physical (Stk-based) attack, make a Mnd or Res goal roll (player's choice). For every two goals scored on the roll, subtract one point of vitality loss. Until the end of the model's next turn, it can add dice equal to the vitality points absorbed to its Stk, Dge, Str, or Tou dice pools in any combination. These added points fade at the end of the model's turn. A model may not add more than 6 total points per round to its pools in this way, and it cannot add more than 3 points per round to a single pool. Vitality in excess of this may still be absorbed, but further pool increases are not allowed. These pool increases do not affect a model's Vitality or Action Points, and they can exceed the dice pool cap.
Example: The Sponge is struck by a haymaker from Stoneflower, suffering 4 points of vitality loss. Luckily for him, the Sponge possesses Kinetic Absorption. He rolls his Res and scores 4 goals, absorbing 2 of the 4 Vitality points he would have lost. His player marks down the two points of damage he did take, and notes that until the end of his next turn, he will have 2D to add to one of the following: Stk, Str, Dge, or Tou.
Special Effects
Charge (+3 pts.): The model may choose to use points of vitality loss absorbed to enhance the damage dice of its Ranged Attack power. On the model's next turn, it can add any vitality points absorbed as damage dice to its Ranged Attack dice pool. A model may not add more than 4D of damage per round to its attack. Dice added in this way fade at the end of the model's turn.
Sponge (+3 pts./level): The model is capable of soaking up kinetic energy like a sponge! Models with the Sponge special effect count as having +1 level of Super-Mnd or Super-Res (player’s choice) for any Kinetic Absorption attempts.
Does Sponge have a cap? I see some things in the book have a cap limit on what you could buy. Typically 3 on average.
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Does Sponge have a cap? I see some things in the book have a cap limit on what you could buy. Typically 3 on average.
Should be max 3, I think.
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Should be max 3, I think.
I would agree, otherwise I think it would get silly if you could get more than 3 there.
On a side note, I on the Animal Forms Only for Alternate Forms, you may want to discuss with your partner about changing the cost. I like the idea of being able to take anything from the chart, but the -2 discount may not be right anymore as it has been opened up to the entire list. Maybe make it cost +2 or +3 to keep the balance?
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I would agree, otherwise I think it would get silly if you could get more than 3 there.
On a side note, I on the Animal Forms Only for Alternate Forms, you may want to discuss with your partner about changing the cost. I like the idea of being able to take anything from the chart, but the -2 discount may not be right anymore as it has been opened up to the entire list. Maybe make it cost +2 or +3 to keep the balance?
A lot of the animals on that list are pretty weak though so even though you can change into lots of different things there is nothing on the list that is so exceptional that the power needs to cost more than 5BP. There is only one animal that gets you more BP in the alt form than you have originally. The vast majority of animals on the list give you little more than some extra movement and maybe one or two pools better than most human types and the low vitality on most of the forms will stop you changing into them once you have taken a couple of points of vit loss. Honestly, any more that 5BP for that power would be a stretch.
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A lot of the animals on that list are pretty weak though so even though you can change into lots of different things there is nothing on the list that is so exceptional that the power needs to cost more than 5BP. There is only one animal that gets you more BP in the alt form than you have originally. The vast majority of animals on the list give you little more than some extra movement and maybe one or two pools better than most human types and the low vitality on most of the forms will stop you changing into them once you have taken a couple of points of vit loss. Honestly, any more that 5BP for that power would be a stretch.
I see your point, just the flex option like that should be at least 0 in cost for a full power cost instead of the -2....just a random thought....
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I see your point, just the flex option like that should be at least 0 in cost for a full power cost instead of the -2....just a random thought....
Don't forget that the power itself costs 7BP and the -2 applies to that cost so the overall cost of the Alternate form- Animals only is 5BP which is a good cost for a power which gives you lots of flexibility without giving you a great deal of actual in game effect. Animal only is a very role play type power with lots of forms which would be useful in a narrative setting but very few of which serve you in a combat skirmish game.
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Hey Folks,
Sorry to pop in somewhat off topic (now that playtest discussion is in full swing). This is Enrico from The Thrifty Wargamer http://thriftywargamer.com/ (http://thriftywargamer.com/) and Play Unplugged http://www.playunplugged.com/ (http://www.playunplugged.com/). I'm a longtime lurker and wanted to introduce myself. I work with Scott on many of the Four-Color Studios projects, and I'm excited to see Super System get a new edition and looking forward to a successful Kickstarter!
-Rico
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Don't forget that the power itself costs 7BP and the -2 applies to that cost so the overall cost of the Alternate form- Animals only is 5BP which is a good cost for a power which gives you lots of flexibility without giving you a great deal of actual in game effect. Animal only is a very role play type power with lots of forms which would be useful in a narrative setting but very few of which serve you in a combat skirmish game.
Yeah, that's where we are on this. Flexibility, yes, but a lot of weak, pre-set, non-min-maxed forms should not "break" the play experience, we think. And I did adjust the T-Rex down to 70 pts. even, so we're good there.
Thanks!
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Hey Folks,
Sorry to pop in somewhat off topic (now that playtest discussion is in full swing). This is Enrico from The Thrifty Wargamer http://thriftywargamer.com/ (http://thriftywargamer.com/) and Play Unplugged http://www.playunplugged.com/ (http://www.playunplugged.com/). I'm a longtime lurker and wanted to introduce myself. I work with Scott on many of the Four-Color Studios projects, and I'm excited to see Super System get a new edition and looking forward to a successful Kickstarter!
-Rico
Thanks for joining in, Rico! Can't wait to get to work on the specifics of the KS!!!
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Hey, folks, we listened to some feedback and even took some design ideas from a fan-made sheet, and re-did the SuperSheet, so check it out here:
https://app.box.com/s/9shg1fnktccawlff8y6c
Thanks!
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Yeah, that's where we are on this. Flexibility, yes, but a lot of weak, pre-set, non-min-maxed forms should not "break" the play experience, we think. And I did adjust the T-Rex down to 70 pts. even, so we're good there.
Thanks!
Ah, that seems to balance things better....just want to see a good, cool new power, not something abusive.
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Hey, folks, we listened to some feedback and even took some design ideas from a fan-made sheet, and re-did the SuperSheet, so check it out here:
https://app.box.com/s/9shg1fnktccawlff8y6c
Thanks!
A+, I like. Can that be adapted to a SoloSystem Sheet like we talked about earlier?
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A+, I like. Can that be adapted to a SoloSystem Sheet like we talked about earlier?
We will do this too. SuperSheets will be the same for the player characters, but we need one for the DFM characters. So yeah, it can be done.
So much to do before April 7th!!!! (that's my new target date for the KS to begin). o_o
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We will do this too. SuperSheets will be the same for the player characters, but we need one for the DFM characters. So yeah, it can be done.
So much to do before April 7th!!!! (that's my new target date for the KS to begin). o_o
That works for me, gives me some time to save up.....this has been a really bad month for extra cash....between trips and my wife getting a $158 ticket for not stopping when she turned right at a light....freeking cameras!
Make sure to let us know what pledge levels may be like, so I can make sure I have enough cash put away...
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That works for me, gives me some time to save up.....this has been a really bad month for extra cash....between trips and my wife getting a $158 ticket for not stopping when she turned right at a light....freeking cameras!
Make sure to let us know what pledge levels may be like, so I can make sure I have enough cash put away...
Tickets suck.
Yeah, we're working on those pledge levels now.
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Tickets suck.
Yeah, we're working on those pledge levels now.
Thanks! I just want to make sure I have cash socked away for this even if they are rough estimates and not solid yet. Wife and I do the "debt free" process so we don't have credit cards for casual use (or otherwise) so I have to make sure I have hobby cash on hand to spend.
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Here is a question: p59-60 for Reflection, when you opt to buy two or three types to reflect, when you spend the 3 AP does the Reflection work against all types or do you have to activate each one separate? Wording may need to be clarified by the +10 upgrade option on P.60.
Example: Reflecta buys Reflection vs Ranged and Close Combat. When she spends 3 AP does the shield cover both or just one and she would have to spend 6 points to get both benefits?
Thanks!
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Here is a question: p59-60 for Reflection, when you opt to buy two or three types to reflect, when you spend the 3 AP does the Reflection work against all types or do you have to activate each one separate? Wording may need to be clarified by the +10 upgrade option on P.60.
Example: Reflecta buys Reflection vs Ranged and Close Combat. When she spends 3 AP does the shield cover both or just one and she would have to spend 6 points to get both benefits?
Thanks!
You're paying a heckuva lot for all of that Reflection. I would say that 3 AP gets you all of the Reflection you need. There's also no guarantee it will work, so yeah, I'll clarify that wording.
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Ok, I am not posting a new version of the play-test doc yet, but here are a few highlights to keep folks updated. These changes are based on continued work from Dave and I, plus lots of external play-testing and reading comments.
-- Abbreviations a-go-go : As in they're mostly gone. Enough folks disliked them that I caved and ditched most of them.
-- Perception becomes Sense : Dave and I liked "Sense" better. It's shorter, Super-Sense sounds better than Super-Perception, and we just like it better.
-- Entangle synced with Object Breakage rules
-- Invisibility integrated with Darkness, and Darkness becomes Cloak : we synced these mechanics and clarified them (we hope!)
-- Clarified and fixed a bunch of rule text from various posters here and elsewhere
More later as I think of it!
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The new version of the sponge special effect seems over priced. Given that a re-roll is in essence an additional dice to your pool (assuming only that you don't score goals with every dice you throw) why would you purchase a 3BP situational level of super instead of a 2BP extra dice in the governing attribute or a 4BP genuine level of super that will also be giving you either an AP or Vit bump? I suppose the obvious answer is that your governing attribute is maxed out at it's current level of super support and you only have 3BP left to spend building your character but even then I would think you were better off putting an activation roll (1) on the power and taking the full super attribute.
Revisiting this rules bit today! You'll see in the next play-test update doc (likely loaded today or tomorrow) that we've priced all of these former dice adder special effects down to 2 pt.s/lvl. -- max 3. So this should cover: Sponge, Speed Burst, Mole, Slingshot (for now, unless it gets edited further), and maybe one other I cannot think of.
I was keen to remove these extra dice adder powers to cut down on the amount of super support folks needed to buy. I think the extra re-rolls are an elegant and easy way to do this, and since they're so specific and targeted, costing them at 2 pts./lvl makes sense, as some here have pointed out.
Hope this helps!
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A few more you may want to look at...was saving them to do a large post instead of multiples...
Soul Fire (p61-62): With the change of character points down from 85 to 75 should the price be adjusted on Soul Fire? Just seems very expensive for a simple swap of damage/STR dice from TOU to RES. Am I missing some impact to the game system for this? Just seems expensive.
P43 Elemental Pool: The example has: 08 Darkness + Personal Immunity. Under Darkness it just says “Immunity”. May want to make one or the other the same to be consistent in power wording.
Appendix III Animals: A few animals are off on AP Totals (not sure if they was adjusted after the AP Total was calc’ed or what). Bat Flock (appears to be 3+3), Bird Flock (2+7), Canine Dog (4+5), Dino Armored (6+5 (+2 growth, +3 EM), Dino Plant Eating (4 only missing +2 from Growth, +4 EM?), Horse (has 5+7 (EM), no +2 for Growth), Rat Swarm (4). I plan to check the points later, just not had time yet.
Random thought on Rat Swarm: Add Burrowing, this would be to simulate rats size being able to dart into small holes, cracks, hard to get spots. They have a talent to hide when they want to.
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A few more you may want to look at...was saving them to do a large post instead of multiples...
Soul Fire (p61-62): With the change of character points down from 85 to 75 should the price be adjusted on Soul Fire? Just seems very expensive for a simple swap of damage/STR dice from TOU to RES. Am I missing some impact to the game system for this? Just seems expensive.
I'll go over this with Dave and get back to you.
P43 Elemental Pool: The example has: 08 Darkness + Personal Immunity. Under Darkness it just says “Immunity”. May want to make one or the other the same to be consistent in power wording.
Fixed!
Appendix III Animals: A few animals are off on AP Totals (not sure if they was adjusted after the AP Total was calc’ed or
I'll look at this stuff. Thanks!
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P77: Boon:
Example 2 sates 1pt and the cost at the top is 2.
Example for the the last with the Silver Knight's Sword states the Boon is 5 points.
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P77: Boon:
Example 2 sates 1pt and the cost at the top is 2.
Example for the the last with the Silver Knight's Sword states the Boon is 5 points.
Yes, should be 2 pts.--I fixed an synced that text. Thanks!
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One other I hit while on a break:
P109: The Demon:
AP should be 5+3=8. Stat is 7
Vitality should be 12: 6 for STR/TOU (the same)+ 5 RES+1 for Super-TOU
I know the Demon is for the scenario but is only built in 61pts, is that right? If so, the above should only be tweaked then.
P110: Unexpected Ally, Vitality should be 8, STR 4+RES 4, TOU is 5, but STR is less.
Thanks!
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Feedback: It appears Weapon also require 1 Level of Super Support like how Marksman does? May want to put a similar example in there.
Game Balance Questions: Something has had me scratching my head a little, so I wanted to toss something out.
-Marksman: Adds 1D/Level at a cost of 1.5 for ranged attacks. Yet, there is no ability on the other side for say a Martial Artist or Bad Ass Boxer for example. So a brawler or brick gets a cost ratio disadvantage.
-Weapon adds STR to Hand to Hand Attacks, which may balance the Brawler/Brick above.
-Yet, this leaves a Mentalist in the dust for their attack types vs. Marksman and Weapon that both give a discount while a Mentalist gets zip to work with.
This also seems to favor the STK and STR stats leaving the other 5 in the dust.
Suggestion: I also was thinking it would be interesting to add something like Lighting Reflexes or Quick Calculations to add +1D/Level to Initiative Checks. Think like Smart Alec in Omega Flight.
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Game Balance Questions: Something has had me scratching my head a little, so I wanted to toss something out.
-Marksman: Adds 1D/Level at a cost of 1.5 for ranged attacks. Yet, there is no ability on the other side for say a Martial Artist or Bad Ass Boxer for example. So a brawler or brick gets a cost ratio disadvantage.
Well, the idea here is buying Strike makes you an all-around great fighter, but if you want to be a specialized marksman, you buy Strike low, and add dice in Marksman. Remember too that you have to buy a Ranged Attack dice pool to make those Marksman dice worth anything, whereas the brawler/brick is spending comparatively less on Strength, since he's going to buy those dice anyway, and they're 2 pts./1D.
-Weapon adds STR to Hand to Hand Attacks, which may balance the Brawler/Brick above.
-Yet, this leaves a Mentalist in the dust for their attack types vs. Marksman and Weapon that both give a discount while a Mentalist gets zip to work with.
Mind Attack ignores cover, affects Density Decrease models, can be used while entangled or grabbed, and preys upon generally weaker Mind attributes of Bricks, Brawlers, and Strike-based ranged attackers.
This also seems to favor the STK and STR stats leaving the other 5 in the dust.
I think you will find that if you load up on Strike and Strength, you will be seriously deficient elsewhere. Ultimately, it's a game of comic book brawls, so to an extent, I want to encourage close-up slugfests, but I think there's enough there for specialists to take advantage of, but I guess more games will bear this out or not.
Suggestion: I also was thinking it would be interesting to add something like Lighting Reflexes or Quick Calculations to add +1D/Level to Initiative Checks. Think like Smart Alec in Omega Flight.
We've had this in the past, but I have been trying to move away from so many dice adder powers and effects. We may be able to resurrect something like this and include it.
Thanks, as always!
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Ok, folks! We're ready for the next version of the play-test rules!
Here's the link:
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
Many changes based on lots of feedback. Short summary:
--Edited the Quick Attack Maneuver
--Combined Invisibility and Darkness into the new Cloak power.
--Synced up rules between Reach and Elasticity, but did not combine them
--Abbreviations are mostly gone
--Changed "Perception" to "Sense", so we'll need to update the SuperSheet again
--Entangle synced with Object Breakage rules (and Object breakage placed in body of main rules)
--Clarified and fixed a bunch of rule text from various posters here and elsewhere
--We've priced all of the former dice adder special effects down to 2 pt.s/lvl. -- max 3. They add re-rolls instead of dice. So this should cover: Sponge, Speed Burst, Mole, Slingshot (for now, unless it gets edited further), and maybe one other I cannot think of.
So please, read and play games, then let us know what you think!
Thanks!
--Scott
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No experience of any Supers gaming but am very interested.
Will be checking out your KS when it is launched, hence a bookmark for updates.
:D
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Those changes with Cloak/Invisibility just dropped one of my character's cost enough to raise her stats up by 4 points after making a good Cloak package! Wow, that made a difference.
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Just keep in mind, if you don't buy Impenetrable x 1, someone with Super-Sense x 1 can penetrate it with no rolls.
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Just keep in mind, if you don't buy Impenetrable x 1, someone with Super-Sense x 1 can penetrate it with no rolls.
Don't have the sheet but it was something like:
Cloask
Invisibility
Impenetrable x2
Activation Roll -1
As I said it let e boost some attributes that made me happy as the prior character design was really weak....
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Don't have the sheet but it was something like:
Cloask
Invisibility
Impenetrable x2
Activation Roll -1
As I said it let e boost some attributes that made me happy as the prior character design was really weak....
That looks pretty good! Let us know how it works!
Here's a link to the newest SuperSheet update:
https://app.box.com/s/9shg1fnktccawlff8y6c
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I have a printed copy to beat up, wife and I are on vacation this weekend...
I hope to play some Solosystem this week, going to start stalking for a player to test the rules with if possible....
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Few items:
P68, suggest to change "possessing this power" to "possessing this boon" this would synch up with the Boons Section and Page 90 as well for Henchmen
Is the Boon: Another Wave appearing in this edition? You whipped this out for Rusty's Crossover Thugs rules....I kinda like it and to me works well.
Also, consider an Appendix for Henchmen quick stats....Ninjas, Thugs, Robots, etc....may be nice for a new player to quick grab or perhaps even a SoloSystem gamer to grab and go style.
P130-131 SoloSystem Power /notes:
Lucky and Unlucky are not mentioned.
Suggest:
Lucky: Once per turn can two a second set of card turns to and take the better of the two.
Unlucky: One per game, the SoloSystem player can opt to draw a second set of turns and take the worst of the two as NPC draw.
Also, thinking Edge being allowed every turn is cheap for 1pt. I suggest one use.
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Few items:
P68, suggest to change "possessing this power" to "possessing this boon" this would synch up with the Boons Section and Page 90 as well for Henchmen
Fixed!
Is the Boon: Another Wave appearing in this edition? You whipped this out for Rusty's Crossover Thugs rules....I kinda like it and to me works well.
Not sure, we'll see.
Also, consider an Appendix for Henchmen quick stats....Ninjas, Thugs, Robots, etc....may be nice for a new player to quick grab or perhaps even a SoloSystem gamer to grab and go style.
We may do this, but space is an issue. It's a good idea for sure.
Lucky and Unlucky are not mentioned.
Suggest:
Lucky: Once per turn can two a second set of card turns to and take the better of the two.
Unlucky: One per game, the SoloSystem player can opt to draw a second set of turns and take the worst of the two as NPC draw.
I will consider these.
Also, thinking Edge being allowed every turn is cheap for 1pt. I suggest one use.
Edge is not available every turn. Each level is gone after being spent and we make this clear in the power's text. I did add a second note in the SoloSystem section to reinforce this.
Thanks, Styx!
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I had Joe D. update the sheet one more time, flipping a couple of the Attribute pairs to better reflect their importance. I think we're getting closer now to a finalized sheet!
https://app.box.com/s/9shg1fnktccawlff8y6c
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I like it. Very easy to read, very clear and light.
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Folks, wanted to share, we just added a new Bane:
LONE WOLF
BP Reduction: -2 pts.
Effects: Characters with this bane suffer from poor camaraderie due to anti-social, alien, or maverick behavior. They neither gain nor grant the friends in close combat bonus detailed in Chapter 1. Do not count them when figuring this bonus in close combats. They also cannot benefit from re-rolls granted by the Tactician boon.
All you 1990's Iron Age misanthropes rejoice!
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Folks, just an update on the play-tests and editing!
The doc is solidifying as we get more feedback. Here some odds and ends worth mentioning:
-- We added the Lone Wolf bane
-- I included a detailed chargen example at the end of chapter 2
-- I wrote a new sample scenario script and replaced the old one with it
-- General editing, tightening and consistency in formatting of power, boon, bane, and power mod costs
-- After a debate with Dave, we readjusted the Boon power mod back down to 1 pt.
-- Found and fixed a number of legacy mistakes in rule and example text throughout the doc
Let me know if you have anything else. My plan is to start layout sometime next week, if all things go smoothly. This will be a preliminary layout bereft of many art assets, but it will allow us to gauge printing costs, which we need to do for KS set-up.
Thanks!
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Got a suggestion for Entangle: Dangerous (+X points), the Entangle can cause damage to the user if they come in contact with it. Damage is equal to the 1/2 the level of Entangle. Example 8 levels would be 4D damage. Also like slick does not Grab the target. You could also opt for it to not give damage protection like Wall perhaps?
I was thinking of doing some type of Wall of Fire for my fire character and there isn't anything that covers that.
Bodyguard: Would Extra Reach factor in like Elasticity or a weapon with extra reach?
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Got a suggestion for Entangle: Dangerous (+X points), the Entangle can cause damage to the user if they come in contact with it. Damage is equal to the 1/2 the level of Entangle. Example 8 levels would be 4D damage. Also like slick does not Grab the target. You could also opt for it to not give damage protection like Wall perhaps?
I was thinking of doing some type of Wall of Fire for my fire character and there isn't anything that covers that.
Bodyguard: Would Extra Reach factor in like Elasticity or a weapon with extra reach?
Styx, we're looking into adding damage effects to Entangle and Cloak. Thanks!
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Bodyguard: Would Extra Reach factor in like Elasticity or a weapon with extra reach?
We actually address this in the Bodyguard text:
BODYGUARD#
BP Cost: 6 pts.
AP Cost: none
Effects: Models possessing the Bodyguard power can absorb the effects of ranged or close combat attacks targeted at a friendly model within 3" of their position. Models possessing the Reach or Elasticity powers can use their extended range in place of the standard 3" (up to a maximum of 6"). A bodyguard can only use this power if a friendly model is successfully struck by an attack that would target its Toughness. The ensuing damage roll is then made against the bodyguard model, and it resists using its own Tou, and any other applicable powers (like Kinetic Absorption). When a model activates the Bodyguard power, place it directly in the path of the incoming attack (if it is not already in this position). A model may only use Bodyguard on one friendly model and against one source of attacks per round. Models that use Bodyguard to absorb attacks with Area of Effects suffer two hits, making two Toughness rolls vs. a single damage roll.
Example: Zoya is standing 2" away from her teammate, Red Bolt, when some unseen foe targets him with a Ranged Attack. When Red Bolt is struck by the attack, Zoya decides to use her Bodyguard power to absorb it. The damage from the attack is now rolled versus Zoya's Toughness, not Red Bolt's, and any damage that gets through goes to Zoya. Had the successful attack also possessed the AoE special effect, Zoya would have had to absorb two hits, first the one on Red Bolt, and then the one that would have struck her.
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We actually address this in the Bodyguard text:
BODYGUARD#
BP Cost: 6 pts.
AP Cost: none
Effects: Models possessing the Bodyguard power can absorb the effects of ranged or close combat attacks targeted at a friendly model within 3" of their position. Models possessing the Reach or Elasticity powers can use their extended range in place of the standard 3" (up to a maximum of 6"). A bodyguard can only use this power if a friendly model is successfully struck by an attack that would target its Toughness. The ensuing damage roll is then made against the bodyguard model, and it resists using its own Tou, and any other applicable powers (like Kinetic Absorption). When a model activates the Bodyguard power, place it directly in the path of the incoming attack (if it is not already in this position). A model may only use Bodyguard on one friendly model and against one source of attacks per round. Models that use Bodyguard to absorb attacks with Area of Effects suffer two hits, making two Toughness rolls vs. a single damage roll.
Example: Zoya is standing 2" away from her teammate, Red Bolt, when some unseen foe targets him with a Ranged Attack. When Red Bolt is struck by the attack, Zoya decides to use her Bodyguard power to absorb it. The damage from the attack is now rolled versus Zoya's Toughness, not Red Bolt's, and any damage that gets through goes to Zoya. Had the successful attack also possessed the AoE special effect, Zoya would have had to absorb two hits, first the one on Red Bolt, and then the one that would have struck her.
Gotcha, the V2 you posted was what I was reading in the printed copy I had, said: "Models possessing Weapon with Reach or Elasticity Power.....blablabla" The updated way you posted is much better and clear.
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Gotcha, the V2 you posted was what I was reading in the printed copy I had, said: "Models possessing Weapon with Reach or Elasticity Power.....blablabla" The updated way you posted is much better and clear.
Good! That's what I am striving for! I am trying to re-visit every word in this doc and add clarity or remove ambiguity.
Not easy! o_o
Anyway, keep plugging away and asking questions. BTW, we have added Damaging Aura type special effects to Cloak and to Entangle. Thanks for bringing this up!
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I did another Designer's Log on Play Unplugged!
http://www.playunplugged.com/2014/02/designers-log-3-testing-testing/
Thanks for reading!
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This comes at the end of Chapter 2: Character Creation:
CREATING THE $80 MILLION DOLLAR APE: A CHARACTER CREATION EXAMPLE
Scott wants to create a 75 pt. character for his SuperSystem 4th ed. game. He has a recently painted Ape-Austen SuperFig he wants to feature on his team. Ape-Austen is a super-ape possessing cybernetic enhancements. Scott first decides to purchase Ape-Austen’s seven attributes:
Strike 5D
Strength 6D
Dodge 5D
Toughness 6D
Mind 2D
Resolve 4D
Sense 4D
This works out to 50 pts. spent on attributes (32 total dice, subtract 7, multiply by 2).
Scott now has 25 pts. to spend on powers.
Straight away he needs to buy super support for his two 6D attributes, Strength and Toughness. He spends 8 pts. and buys:
Super-Strength x 1 (4 pts.)
Super-Toughness x 1 (4 pts.)
That leaves 17 pts. remaining for the rest of Ape-Austen’s powers. Looking at the model again, Scott notices how cool Ape-Austen’s cyber-arm looks. He imagines it might contain a single use energy weapon of some kind. Nothing too powerful, but something he could use to zap a foe at range in a pinch. Scott buys Ape-Austen 5D in the Ranged Attack power and then places the One-Shot Power Mod (-50%) on it. This brings its cost down from 15 pts. to 8 pts. (remember, 15/2=7.5, rounded up to 8).
Ranged Attack 5D (8 pts.)
--One-Shot
Scott has 9 pts. left to spend.
He looks at the model again and notices the nifty high-tech eyepiece Ape-Austen has on his right eye. He immediately thinks of infra-red vision, and that makes him think Super-Sense, so he buys his character one level in this power:
Super-Sense x 1 (4 pts.)
Scott has 5 pts. left to spend.
Since he bought Super-Sense x 1 for Ape-Austen, he decides he wants to go back and increase his Sense attribute by +1D, so he spends 2 pts. and does so.
Strike 5D
Strength 6D[1]
Dodge 5D
Toughness 6D[1]
Mind 2D
Resolve 4D
Sense 4D Sense 5D[1] (2 pts.)
Scott has 3 pts. left to spend.
He decides that Ape-Austen’s cybernetic leg gives him some extra stability, so he spends his last 3 pts. on Knockback Resistance:
Knockback Resistance x 3 (3 pts.)
With all 75 pts. spent, Ape-Austen lives!
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Suggestion:
Persisting Damage: This Power Modifier allows a Weapon, Ranged Attack, Damaging Aura (and anything else that may need to be included) to continue to injure a target on the starting on the next round and thereafter after equal to the level purchased (up to 3) and inflicting damage equal to half of the dice pool of the power. Mark the model with an appropriate marker as a reminder.
This is to reflect effects like acid, poison, fire, radiation, chemicals…etc…
Suggested Cost would be: +10% Lvl 1, +25% Lvl 2, +50% Lvl 3
Thoughts: The level + % keeps things in balance IMO as ongoing damage can be very dangerous and should be priced as such.
Example: Acid Man has 6D for an Acid Blast Ranged Attack costing 24 points, he buys Persisting Damage at Level 2, making the cost 30 points. He fires at Danger Guy hitting with a 6D attack. The next turn Acid Man goes after another target, Danger Guy would continue to take 3D in damage that turn and the one following.
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Suggestion:
Persisting Damage: This Power Modifier allows a Weapon, Ranged Attack, Damaging Aura (and anything else that may need to be included) to continue to injure a target on the starting on the next round and thereafter after equal to the level purchased (up to 3) and inflicting damage equal to half of the dice pool of the power. Mark the model with an appropriate marker as a reminder.
This is to reflect effects like acid, poison, fire, radiation, chemicals…etc…
Suggested Cost would be: +10% Lvl 1, +25% Lvl 2, +50% Lvl 3
Thoughts: The level + % keeps things in balance IMO as ongoing damage can be very dangerous and should be priced as such.
Example: Acid Man has 6D for an Acid Blast Ranged Attack costing 24 points, he buys Persisting Damage at Level 2, making the cost 30 points. He fires at Danger Guy hitting with a 6D attack. The next turn Acid Man goes after another target, Danger Guy would continue to take 3D in damage that turn and the one following.
We'll look into this one, Styx, thanks!
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Cool, I have a few heroes that had ongoing mechanics of damage designed into the fluff and it hit me at work today that the system really does not account for it. I wanted toss something out reasonable that could be tweaked.
BTW, read the Designers unplugged.....A+....Suicide Squad fan also, Watchmen, Alpha Flight, Squadron Supreme are just a few of my favorites when I was in high school.
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Suggestion:
Persisting Damage: This Power Modifier allows a Weapon, Ranged Attack, Damaging Aura (and anything else that may need to be included) to continue to injure a target on the starting on the next round and thereafter after equal to the level purchased (up to 3) and inflicting damage equal to half of the dice pool of the power. Mark the model with an appropriate marker as a reminder.
This is to reflect effects like acid, poison, fire, radiation, chemicals…etc…
Suggested Cost would be: +10% Lvl 1, +25% Lvl 2, +50% Lvl 3
Thoughts: The level + % keeps things in balance IMO as ongoing damage can be very dangerous and should be priced as such.
Example: Acid Man has 6D for an Acid Blast Ranged Attack costing 24 points, he buys Persisting Damage at Level 2, making the cost 30 points. He fires at Danger Guy hitting with a 6D attack. The next turn Acid Man goes after another target, Danger Guy would continue to take 3D in damage that turn and the one following.
Great minds think alike! This is similar to a rule I came up with a little while ago.
Melee/Ranged attack special effect.
Persistent effect: 3BP per level (max 3)
The power has some form of ongoing effect on the victim. The effect must be specified during character design. If a character takes vitality loss from this attack they will suffer a further point of vitality loss per level each turn (not including this turn) when their character activates unless they fight off the persistent effect. Models must spend 2AP and pass a difficulty x(level of attackers persistent effect) resolve check to remove a persistent effect. The test may be made as many times as the character wishes and has AP available for. Melee/Ranged attacks may have a number of persistent effects but each must be bought as a separate special effect and each must be resisted separately by the victim.
Character Mod.
Specific immunity 1BP per level (max 3)
The character has a degree of immunity to a specific type of persistent effect and ignores one point of additional vit loss per level when attacked with this kind of persistent effect.
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Soaps, that looks pretty good! I will tinker with it and talk to Dave.
Thanks!
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Heh, true Soaps we great minds think alike....just sucks about distance all this good gamer mojo and nobody to game with!
Tonight or tomorrow I am slated to test the SoloSystem with about 3 games in a row with different types of characters I worked up.
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Took my first steps in character creation.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/16/8647_22_02_14_7_38_22.png)
There are still a couple of archetypes that still don't add up right for me:
Guardian - 71 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 42 Points
Ranged Attack - (4*3) = 12 Points
Force Dome - (4*4) = 16 Points
Pushing - 1 Point
He Just Won't Quit! - 71 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 56 Points
Weapon - (4*1.5) = 6 + 2 = 8 Points
Regeneration - 5 Points
Extra Vitality - 2 Points
Irresistible Force - 77 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 64 Points
Rage - 2 Points
Regeneration - 5 Points
Super-Leap - 6 Points
Lucky Striker - 76 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 56 Points
Fortune - (3*4) = 12 Points
Edge - (1*3) = 3 Points
Instant Stand - 1 Points
Pushing - 1 Points
Sense Weakness - 3 Points
Metamorph - 73 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 38 Points
Elemental Control Pool - 35 Points
Mind Over Matter - 73 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 46 Points
Elemental Control Pool - 19+2*4 = 27 Points
Stupendous Wo/Man - 73 Points
Stats & Super Stats - 62 Points
Flight - 10 Points
Pushing - 1 Points
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I tried to fix these, likely causing a cascade of other errors! lol
Thanks!
P.S. Your custom card looks cool!
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Nice looking card but it brings up something that I have fluctuated on.
The final box on the Vit track is 'KO'. Is that an additional box after the '1' as on Gen_Leo's card or is it instead of the '1'?
When playing the third edition we took it to be an additional box and everyone's cards were designed this way. Although there were super sheets in the book and there were stat lines in the book there wasn't a stat line on a super sheet to make it clear.
In the playtest volume it is only really clarified in the solosystem section where you have written out a solo stat line and the 'KO' box seems to replace the '1' box although even then it is not clear whether the '9' is just to show how many Vit the character has or if it is intended to be part of the vit track and so the first to be checked off.
I think a completed supersheet would help to clarify things but also that it needs to be explicit within the rules whether the 'KO' box is your last point of vit of an additional box after your last point of Vit. As long as everyone is doing the same thing I doubt it matters but it would help with clarity.
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Just finished a solosystem game tonight. May reset for another one tomorrow. Had a good learning curve and I see some suggestions I am going to collect and write out for an email (may be too long here) to help refine the SoloSystem....for the most part it worked well.
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Nice looking card but it brings up something that I have fluctuated on.
The final box on the Vit track is 'KO'. Is that an additional box after the '1' as on Gen_Leo's card or is it instead of the '1'?
When playing the third edition we took it to be an additional box and everyone's cards were designed this way. Although there were super sheets in the book and there were stat lines in the book there wasn't a stat line on a super sheet to make it clear.
In the playtest volume it is only really clarified in the solosystem section where you have written out a solo stat line and the 'KO' box seems to replace the '1' box although even then it is not clear whether the '9' is just to show how many Vit the character has or if it is intended to be part of the vit track and so the first to be checked off.
I think a completed supersheet would help to clarify things but also that it needs to be explicit within the rules whether the 'KO' box is your last point of vit of an additional box after your last point of Vit. As long as everyone is doing the same thing I doubt it matters but it would help with clarity.
The KO box is your last point of Vit. If you have 9 Vit, you've got 8 "normal" circles (or boxes, or whatever) and the ninth one says KO.
I will clarify this for sure!
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Played a SoloSystem Game last night, here are a few comments and thoughts:
P126-Does not define what is General, unless I missed something even in the front of the rules nothing really defines what you use for the General stat.
P126-127 Dr. Simian DFM’s are wrong:
- Strike should be 3[2] – 6=3, then 2 (base 1 then 1 from Super Strike)
- Mind and Res do not have a [1]
- Damage should be 3[2] STR 5+2D from Weapon, extra [1] from Super
- Initiative 3[2] (Super Strike allows to be used for Int)
P128, states 6 drives, but there are seven.
P 129 “Mastermind Special Action” needs to be put at the ront before the listing of the 7, inserted where it is just confusing as it took me a bit to figure out the intent and application.
P130 Edge, should note each level of edge is good for the scenario only.
P 131 Fortune does not work right. Face down and drawing to add does not capture the flavor of the power. I would suggest, deal 1 card at the start of the turn per level of Fortune, the player may opt to use a card instead of doing a card turn.
P 131, remove the Card Turn/DN Adder chart, already on page 127, twice is just confusing and takes up excess print space.
P 133 suggest to modify to determine balance by card turns or just pick an opposing team and convert the stats…(something like that), in essence random chance with card turns or you select. Also “Generating Foes” on p 134 makes sense and ties in to select or random card draw.
P 134 Suggest you package Thug/Mastermind/Specialist/Mover in 3-5-8 team packages, 5 is great but what if the player is playing a smaller or larger game?
P 136 (note it optional)
P 136 add a random card turn for Objectives for the game. You have everything else to “Set the Scene” but the goal.
P 136, the same DFM is nice, but you also have Dr. Simian listed at the front of the chapter. Maybe merge the URL and some of the blurbs
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Played a SoloSystem Game last night, here are a few comments and thoughts:
P126-Does not define what is General, unless I missed something even in the front of the rules nothing really defines what you use for the General stat.
Chapter 1 under "Dice Pools":
"the SuperSheet lists the seven attributes and a slot for damage (Damage) and a general slot (General) for other power dice pools important to the character."
We also revisit this later in Chapter 1 under Combat.
P126-127 Dr. Simian DFM’s are wrong:
- Strike should be 3[2] – 6=3, then 2 (base 1 then 1 from Super Strike)
- Mind and Res do not have a [1]
- Damage should be 3[2] STR 5+2D from Weapon, extra [1] from Super
- Initiative 3[2] (Super Strike allows to be used for Int)
Made some changes, but remember, derive a DFM stat by adding 1 for every 2D, so a 6D[1] = 3[1], not 3[2]. 7D[1] = 3[2]. Only odd dice and Super add card turns.
P128, states 6 drives, but there are seven.
P 129 “Mastermind Special Action” needs to be put at the ront before the listing of the 7, inserted where it is just confusing as it took me a bit to figure out the intent and application.
Adjusted these.
P130 Edge, should note each level of edge is good for the scenario only.
It does.
P 131 Fortune does not work right. Face down and drawing to add does not capture the flavor of the power. I would suggest, deal 1 card at the start of the turn per level of Fortune, the player may opt to use a card instead of doing a card turn.
Adjusted this so cards are face up.
P 131, remove the Card Turn/DN Adder chart, already on page 127, twice is just confusing and takes up excess print space.
Done.
P 133 suggest to modify to determine balance by card turns or just pick an opposing team and convert the stats…(something like that), in essence random chance with card turns or you select. Also “Generating Foes” on p 134 makes sense and ties in to select or random card draw.
Not sure what mean here...
P 134 Suggest you package Thug/Mastermind/Specialist/Mover in 3-5-8 team packages, 5 is great but what if the player is playing a smaller or larger game?
Done.
P 136 (note it optional)
Not sure what you mean.
P 136 add a random card turn for Objectives for the game. You have everything else to “Set the Scene” but the goal.
Added something brief and loose in here.
P 136, the same DFM is nice, but you also have Dr. Simian listed at the front of the chapter. Maybe merge the URL and some of the blurbs
I'll be adding a few more, maybe two or three more.
Remember, this is just an appendix, not a complete rulebook. It's written for tinkerers. I expect folks who use this will be puttering around with it, adding stuff, altering stuff. It's not meant as a standalone set.
Feedback is very helpful, Styx, thanks!
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Thank you Styx to make the solo playing betatest I didn't do lol
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Thank you Styx to make the solo playing betatest I didn't do lol
Well, for a guy who would not let me rest on this topic, I was saddened when I got no feedback! :'(
But hey, at least you spurred me to include it in the latest edition. You can always play when it gets published! The rules will be waiting for you!
Thanks!
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Well, for a guy who would not let me rest on this topic, I was saddened when I got no feedback! :'(
But hey, at least you spurred me to include it in the latest edition. You can always play when it gets published! The rules will be waiting for you!
Thanks!
I should have the batrep up soon...been a rough week.
You could still test a game out.....there is time!
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I know, I'm the worst beta tester on earth :?
Actually I didn't play ANY game of anything since you made the solorules. I first hurted my back (and still injured), and then spent all my hobby time on painting and modelling to play games in the best conditions (painted minis, scenery, etc...), because no one of my projects was progressing anymore (see my topics, most of my projects has been started a couple of years ago).
One day I had a board setup to test these beta rules, but realized that I didn't find my characters sheets anymore... >:(
But it's not a good excuse, I have to make a try before the betatesting close ! Even on the corner of a tabletop.
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I know, I'm the worst beta tester on earth :?
No worries! It's because of you and a few others the rules exist at all! Have a go if you have time, but if not, I think we'll get enough other feedback to tighten them up before layout.
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No worries! It's because of you and a few others the rules exist at all! Have a go if you have time, but if not, I think we'll get enough other feedback to tighten them up before layout.
After this weekend is my next target one way or the other....I am running an event this weekend.
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Folks, the latest version of the SuperSystem 4th ed. play-test is up!
Here's the link:
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
Ok, Version 1.2 is up now. Here's some of what has changed:
-- Split chapter 1 into two chapters: Chapter 1: SuperSystem Core Rules and Chapter 2: Action and Combat.
-- Clarified text on leaving close combats
-- Tweaked Haymaker to base the damage dice added on level of Super-Strength
-- Tweaked Quick Attack maneuver
-- Removed contents of Chapter 4: Four-Color World -- this will appear in a PDF supplement along with other bonus material. More on that when we launch the KS. We did this for space, and because the 4th ed. is less focused on a specific universe and line of figures than previous editions.
-- Simplified Combat Reflexes and added a new Special Effect, Ricochet, to it.
-- Added Damaging power mod for Entangles and Cloaks.
-- Added Lingering option to AoE power mod.
-- Added object breakage and condition summaries to play aids in the back of the book for easy reference
-- Changed optional RPG section to simplify skills and added notes on using S2 as dedicated RPG.
Early, early preliminary layout has the book at 200 pages with no art assets, fancy tables, or call-outs yet in place. No matter what, this will be a large, comprehensive book with plenty of examples and tons of options.
Thanks for looking!
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While I have to fully admit that I've not had a chance to look this over, I'll say that I'm very much looking forward to the new edition. I think 3rd edition is great fun.
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While I have to fully admit that I've not had a chance to look this over, I'll say that I'm very much looking forward to the new edition. I think 3rd edition is great fun.
Thanks! I am super-excited about this edition, and all of the work Dave and I have done to get it ready.
We've gotten a lot of great feedback from these open play-tests too.
This latest version is getting very close to a finalized layout version.
What I would urge folks to do is look at some of the powers Dave and I call PitA powers--Pain in the Ass powers. They're a pain to write, a pain to adjudicate, and a pain when you're on the receiving end of them! I am talking about Dispel (with Suppress) and Nullification.
Make sure the text and examples read clearly. Let us know if anything about them remains unclear. Effects, duration, etc.
Anything else looks awry in any section, let us know!
Thanks!
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By the way, is there any news about the book itself (or I missed something) ? hardback, soft cover, full colour, etc... ?
Will it be available as a release, after the crowdfunding period, or will it be PDF only then ?
Or maybe it's not decided yet ?
thanks
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By the way, is there any news about the book itself (or I missed something) ? hardback, soft cover, full colour, etc... ?
The book will begin the KS as a B&W softcover. Stretch goals will take us to color, then hardcover, then maybe hardcover with sewn binding. I hope. I am awaiting estimates from the printer.
Will it be available as a release, after the crowdfunding period, or will it be PDF only then ?
Yes. The purpose of the KS will be to do a proper print run. We'll do that, make sure all backers get copies and whatever extras (special custom dice), then put copies into distribution.
I also intend to make a version available on Lulu for Print on Demand.
We have a big, pre-KS announcement coming soon. Stay tuned!
Hope this helps!
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Would Vehicle need to be updated with some of the changes? I am trying to wrap my mind around the changes of the extra attributes and a vehicle. With the less traits it was easier to work and made sense. I can see this if you had a "smart car" or a robot that is piloted for example.
Example: I am going to make a guy Holy Street Justice, former biker gone all Punisher now dressed like a holy man and rides a bike after an Angel visits him when he almost died. So, he buys the bike as a sidekick and takes vehicle. I can't see why a motorcycle would need Strike, Strength, Doge, Mind, Resolve, Sense...pretty much other than Toughness....plus is the vehicle's AP what to determine how far it moves?
Maybe a good example and discussion would clear the fog for me or we can find a tweak then...
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Would Vehicle need to be updated with some of the changes? I am trying to wrap my mind around the changes of the extra attributes and a vehicle. With the less traits it was easier to work and made sense. I can see this if you had a "smart car" or a robot that is piloted for example.
Example: I am going to make a guy Holy Street Justice, former biker gone all Punisher now dressed like a holy man and rides a bike after an Angel visits him when he almost died. So, he buys the bike as a sidekick and takes vehicle. I can't see why a motorcycle would need Strike, Strength, Doge, Mind, Resolve, Sense...pretty much other than Toughness....plus is the vehicle's AP what to determine how far it moves?
Maybe a good example and discussion would clear the fog for me or we can find a tweak then...
Funny you brought this up! I am putting vehicle stuff back into its own chapter. Working on this now. Not planning to add a lot. In your case, I might just buy the guy's bike as Extra Movement, Only While Mounted On His Bike, and call it a day. But YMMV.
I have another update of the play-test PDF coming out today.
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Funny you brought this up! I am putting vehicle stuff back into its own chapter. Working on this now. Not planning to add a lot. In your case, I might just buy the guy's bike as Extra Movement, Only While Mounted On His Bike, and call it a day. But YMMV.
I have another update of the play-test PDF coming out today.
A new chapter eh? Funny, I think that we talked about that awhile back and I know you liked it where it was. I think a chapter to it would be a good idea and easy to understand/read. I will wait for the PDF then, then I can go kick the tires for you...good point on the stats also, keep it simple otherwise....this I think is just getting better and better!
Thanks!
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Ok, here is the latest version of the play-test doc, maybe the last one before we start layout!
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
Highlights of changes include:
-- Added a Fast-Play rule sheet to appendix
-- Vehicles back in their own chapter, added some small new clarifications and details.
-- Cleaned up and clarified Copy Power and Dispel
-- Added clearly defined conditions and removed repeated text as result
-- Removed annoying compulsory move rules from Cowardly and Dominate and replaced them with terrified condition. These now sync with Terrifying Aura.
-- Cleaned up and clarified Combat Reflexes
-- Cleaned up and re-organized flurry maneuver
-- Added some clarifications to Quick Attack maneuver
-- Lots of edits based on reader and player feedback!
Thanks for looking!
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Folks, I think in the next few days we'll be "freezing" the rules text to start layout. This means we won't add anything new or significant, but we can still make corrections and minor additions throughout the layout process.
Our goal is to have a provisional layout done around the start of the KS, or shortly thereafter.
So get me any comments, suggestions, etc. in the next few days. Thanks!
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Folks, one last upload before we "freeze" the text on Monday. Get any last minute comments or issues into me by then.
We can of course fix minor things during and after layout, but no major additions can really be made after that.
Here's the latest link:
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
This differs from last week's in a few areas of note:
-- Re-organized SoloSystem rules and generally edited them some more
-- Added "Ablative" power mod
-- Edited Size Benchmark chart
-- Added Extra Effort lifting to RPG section
-- Further edited, clarified, and adjusted overall text
Thanks!
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I'm hoping to try s2 th4 this weekend. (working hard on my fat dragon modern city)
But with a real life being what it is I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the character creation. It's not so much that I don't get it but things don't seem to click like they often do. Is there some place I could do a short writeup of how I envision a model working and somebody could give me a hand on the stats? :D
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I'm hoping to try s2 th4 this weekend. (working hard on my fat dragon modern city)
But with a real life being what it is I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the character creation. It's not so much that I don't get it but things don't seem to click like they often do. Is there some place I could do a short writeup of how I envision a model working and somebody could give me a hand on the stats? :D
We can do that right here, if you want. Just reply with some details and we'll work it out.
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fourcolorfigs check your pm...
thanks
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fourcolorfigs check your pm...
thanks
Got it! Thanks!
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The book will begin the KS as a B&W softcover. Stretch goals will take us to color, then hardcover, then maybe hardcover with sewn binding. I hope. I am awaiting estimates from the printer.
Yes. The purpose of the KS will be to do a proper print run. We'll do that, make sure all backers get copies and whatever extras (special custom dice), then put copies into distribution.
<snip>
Then I guess I will have to commit to the KS. o_o
The rules as "thought fodder" are my only interest currently. Miniatures I have in 15 mm and waaaay too many larger ones.
Gracias,
Glenn
Who still needs to unload Herolix and most other 25++++ mm "Supers" figures in my storage boxes...
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We can do that right here, if you want. Just reply with some details and we'll work it out.
The two characters that are giving me the most trouble and would probably give me the most insight are these:
Unlucky Hank. A biker who got hit by a comet, only to turn into a living comet. This guy started of as a player character in our necessary evil game.
Something in between the hulk and the thing, but on fire. All of that should be pretty straightforward. However he's also supposed to have a leap power with a heavy AOE impact. He lands like a comet after all. I feel like this should be simple enough but I can't figure it out.
Bodkin, a archer trickster. Basically batman by way of green arrow. I'm still working on his gadget pool (I think that's the way to go for trick arrows and smoke grenades and stuff right?)
What I am also trying to do is have his bow attack not be the most lethal out there. (he's not a main striker) but have some penetration effect, like his namesake. Allowing him to be as much of a danger to tough characters as to "normal" ones.
Again I feel there probably is a simple way to do these, just haven't found them yet.
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The two characters that are giving me the most trouble and would probably give me the most insight are these:
Unlucky Hank. A biker who got hit by a comet, only to turn into a living comet. This guy started of as a player character in our necessary evil game.
Something in between the hulk and the thing, but on fire. All of that should be pretty straightforward. However he's also supposed to have a leap power with a heavy AOE impact. He lands like a comet after all. I feel like this should be simple enough but I can't figure it out.
Unlucky Hank
BP: 75
AP: 6
Attributes
Stk 4 Str 6[2] Dge 4 Tou 6[2]
Mnd 2 Res 4 Sen 3
Powers/Traits
Damaging Aura 3D
Super Leap
Super-Strength x 2
--Shockwave (Only After Super Leaping)
Super-Toughness x 2
Unlucky
Vitality: 12
So the above might work. The Shockwave will knock folks down, but won't do any damage. The DA is a little low, but you'd be surprised what a 3D aura can do when you're rolling hot.
I'll work on the other one later!
--Scott
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Having just read that build I had a little moment about the use of a power after a super leap which as we know is a charge. This lead me to re-read the charge action text having admittedly skipped over it in the last couple of reads and it really didn't make sense to me.
It seems the 5ap minimum has been removed but it still mentions charging with 4ap. It also mentions that the turns ends post charge so it sounds like the above build wouldn't work unless of course this is a prime example of powers breaking the rules (even though this isn't so much a power breaking a rule as a character being built to break a rule).
The first paragraph really doesn't make a great deal of sense. I'm assuming that the intent of the paragraph is to suggest that you can do stuff and then charge but you can't charge and then do stuff. Even if this is the intent it's a bit of a slog to read.
I'm going to have another blast through before you finalise everything and I'll get back if I have any issues. Here's hoping you don't hear from me again :)
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A Super Leap is a charge, and a charge can end with an attack, and Shockwave counts as an attack.
Here's some clarified text:
Charging
A model may charge to cover extra ground, or to attack a foe in close combat. Each available AP spent allows the model 2" of movement. A model may spend AP to activate a power or perform a basic action like standing up and still charge.
Charging models that make it into base contact with a foe may make an attack and gain +2D to their damage goal rolls on a successful hit. Targets of charge attacks gain +1D to Dodge to avoid them. Models who charge with less than 4 AP still move 2" for each AP point spent and can make a close combat attack, but do not gain the +2D to damage. Charging ends a model’s turn after the free attack.
Charging a foe who stands out of a model’s line of sight requires a 0 AP, TN=2 Sense check. Failure means the model cannot charge that target this round, but may charge other targets it can see or detect. Make this check before starting any movement.
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A Super Leap is a charge, and a charge can end with an attack, and Shockwave counts as an attack.
Here's some clarified text:
Charging
A model may charge to cover extra ground, or to attack a foe in close combat. Each available AP spent allows the model 2" of movement. A model may spend AP to activate a power or perform a basic action like standing up and still charge.
Charging models that make it into base contact with a foe may make an attack and gain +2D to their damage goal rolls on a successful hit. Targets of charge attacks gain +1D to Dodge to avoid them. Models who charge with less than 4 AP still move 2" for each AP point spent and can make a close combat attack, but do not gain the +2D to damage. Charging ends a model’s turn after the free attack.
Charging a foe who stands out of a model’s line of sight requires a 0 AP, TN=2 Sense check. Failure means the model cannot charge that target this round, but may charge other targets it can see or detect. Make this check before starting any movement.
Sweet Christmas! That's quite some change to charging! So charging has gone from +2D attack to +2D damage? And the target gets a +1D dodge? That there is quite literally a game changer.
The reason though that I mentioned shockwave not working is that nowhere in it's description text does it mention being an attack power or needing/counting as an attack roll.
Aaaaaaaaaand I've just looked at the damned version number of the document I was reading and it was 1.2 instead of 1.4! Balls! Back in a couple of hours after I've read the correct version of the document again. With a bit of luck the things I was about to rant about will be sorted... :)
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Sweet Christmas! That's quite some change to charging! So charging has gone from +2D attack to +2D damage? And the target gets a +1D dodge? That there is quite literally a game changer.
The reason though that I mentioned shockwave not working is that nowhere in it's description text does it mention being an attack power or needing/counting as an attack roll.
Aaaaaaaaaand I've just looked at the damned version number of the document I was reading and it was 1.2 instead of 1.4! Balls! Back in a couple of hours after I've read the correct version of the document again. With a bit of luck the things I was about to rant about will be sorted... :)
That's a super-recent change. Dave and I have been meaning to do it.
Just finally got round to it.
Also, Shockwave should counted as an attack, and is not. That needs fixed.
Think of it as attacking a spot on the battlefield. I'd make him make that roll to hit his precise spot, or he deviates, and the shockwave goes off at the wrong spot!
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Okay, didn't take too long that time. Here we go:
Force Dome
The wording on force dome seems a little wooly. That bit about if you had 3AP left from your last turn is kind of against all the conventions and streamlining you have set up elsewhere. It get confusing when you factor in things like held action where you really are storing up AP for later use. I think it might work better if you word it like reflection whereby you need to decide if you are turning it on and then can choose to use it if the situation comes up. It'll be more in keeping with your other reactive powers but this is strictly a wording issue.
How on earth does damaging work with force dome? All the wording of the power describes it as being targeted at the wielder or a friendly model so is it them that takes the damage? As you can't target an enemy model with a force dome I can't see who you would want to damage with it.
Haymaker.
Wow, this badboy isn't such a badboy any more is he? Strain is a better manoeuvre for anyone who isn't super strength 3 or better and stacking it with strain (part of what we used to call the 10 point combo along with precise) is just a defence fest for the opposing model. If the previously posted change is made to charging pretty much any time you attack an enemy model you are giving them a defence bump unless you stroll up and bop them on the nose with no cherry on the top. With flurry, haymaker and strain all giving the enemy extra defence bonuses there really isn't much of an incentive to stay in a combat until the enemy is down. The order of the day would be to pray for some knockback so that you are free to charge on your next activation (unless the charge rule also changes in which case it'll be bows and arrows all round!).
Combat reflexes.
Harsh negative man, really harsh. So your power is that you can escape from your foes by ninjaing (yes it's a verb!) out of the way but if you fail the test you fall flat on your face and get dog piled by everyone!? Like I said, harsh. While I'm at it how would it work re the free attacks. Would the enemy models have to choose an order in which to attack? If the first guy caused you a bunch of knockback would the others still get their attacks? If they do all get to attack does their knockback stack? Do you suffer just the first guys knockback or the highest?
For the non landing flyer, if I want to make a flurry and use my hypermove or whatever other movement that's not a charge to move between opponents do I make a TN-3 check once, once per enemy or count up the proposed targets and base the TN on the total enemies I wish to engage. If it's the latter and, say I want to attack 3 guys and I fail to get the TN-4 but do score three goals can I still attack the first guy or is the attack wasted? If I make an TN roll per enemy and I fail one do I have to land and finish the rest of the fights on foot? Can I attempt to take off again and continue my flurry?
Okay, this one is a bit rules lawyerish but it has stopped me using immunity in the past.
In cloak, ranged attack and entangle there is the special effect immunity which states that the character is immune to the effects of it's own power. The first sentence of the effects section of each of these powers tells us that the character has the ability to use this power in the first place. Surely immune doesn't negate the power in it's entirety? My assumption is that the character is immune to the damaging effects of their own power (in instances such as a no range area of effect). The only time this is a bit sticky is with cloak. Which effects of the power is the character immune to? Is it the defence dice bonuses (the very heart of the power) or the effects of blinded (which means he can't charge, moves at half rate, has to spot anyone he wants to take action against and gives his foes +2D when attacking him and defending against him) or both? It'd be nice to think he'd get the power's benefits (defence dice) whilst paying to remove the hindrance which is blinded but it's not at all clear.
Whilst I'm on cloak the effects of invisible as written are a bit of a headache. Okay so we know that an invisible model is cloaked (barring the 1" radius) so must also be blinded. In addition the rule gives the character hidden without the cost and movement limitations (the only cost mentioned is 2AP to use it and there are no movement restrictions mentioned). A hiding model's turn ends as soon as it is hidden and it cannot have a held action. So as written we have a model who can charge but moves at half rate, count's all his enemies as hidden but is also hidden from them with a +2D to his dodge roll with an extra +2 if he's in cover, gains +2D attack and defence if his enemy can't overcome the invisibility but also gives his enemy +2 dice attack and defence due to him suffering the effects of his own cloak. None of this matters however as as soon as he activates invisibility his turn ends and he can't hold an action! This one still needs work and those immunities need a good clarifying.
Supersystem in 15mm sidebar.
Rather than reducing all of the values by half you might also mention just trading inches for centimetres. I know Americans are generally allergic to the metric system but pretty much any tape measure available to European customers will feature centimetres as well as inches. :)
It's not without precedent either as within the sidebar itself you are referring to 28mm and 15mm.
So yeah not much but a couple of biggies.
The only other thing was a question about Linked Powers. Now it says that these powers count for all purposes as a single power but go on to only mention the negative effects. I'm guessing this doesn't really mean all purposes and just means for the purposes mentioned right? In the second paragraph it mentions linking multiple powers into a single power effect. Does this mean I can link entangle and flare to both immobilize and blind my target? Can I link dominate-fear only with ranged attack to create a Sinestro corps ring construct which both potentially damages and terrifies my enemy? Link edge with weapon level 3 meaning I can only use my edge on my damage rolls but they give my +5D if I choose to use it before the dice are rolled or +4D if I decide to use it after the opposed roll and the chance to use it is limited by my edge level? I always assumed it was just the former (and rarely affected me as we hardly ever have dispellers or copiers on the table) but now that I have typed these out am really hoping it's the latter as that'd just be so damn cool! I mean I know these effects can all be achieved but not with a single attack roll and it would be very awesome if you could combine the effects of two powers into a single attack roll and the first paragraph kinds suggests it with the second paragraph giving a definite nudge in that direction.
Help me Obi-Scott Kenobi, you're my only hope.
Good luck mate,
Soaps.
Also, BOOM! reply 200...
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A Super Leap is a charge, and a charge can end with an attack, and Shockwave counts as an attack.
Here's some clarified text:
Charging
A model may charge to cover extra ground, or to attack a foe in close combat. Each available AP spent allows the model 2" of movement. A model may spend AP to activate a power or perform a basic action like standing up and still charge.
Charging models that make it into base contact with a foe may make an attack and gain +2D to their damage goal rolls on a successful hit. Targets of charge attacks gain +1D to Dodge to avoid them. Models who charge with less than 4 AP still move 2" for each AP point spent and can make a close combat attack, but do not gain the +2D to damage. Charging ends a model’s turn after the free attack.
Charging a foe who stands out of a model’s line of sight requires a 0 AP, TN=2 Sense check. Failure means the model cannot charge that target this round, but may charge other targets it can see or detect. Make this check before starting any movement.
Looking over this again it looks like you are now allowing characters to stand up and charge in the same turn. This had always been a no no previously.
Interesting to see some of the core rule changes but it kind of feels like you are doing a '40k' on some of them and just changing them because there is a new edition rather than because they don't work.
I like pretty much all the new powers and mods you've added and they all work really well for a tabletop skirmish game but the powers that seem to take up the most print room seem to be the ones that you yourself call PitA powers! With all the fundamental changes I would have liked to see more combat type powers added like Styx's persistent damage or the ability to give your character a weakness (I see it made it to the roleplay section but that kind of page space could have been devoted to a rule that could be used in general play with a tighter remit) that could further distinguish a bunch of hitty characters from each other.
I probably shouldn't be moaning about it, I'm getting a new version of the game I've been playing week in and week out for a few years now but I've grown attached to 3rd edition and some of the little touches that have been taken out (like the ability to borrow AP from your next turn with activation cost) haven't always been outweighed by the new stuff. Still, I'm looking forward to the kickstarter and the shiny new edition (even though it's hard to tell from these posts... :( ).
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While I agree with soapy that linking power effects would be cool, I don't really read it as working that way.
How exactly does a AoE Damaging aura work, the AoE rules state that its full damage for touching and half for not touching. But when is this effect triggered? Damaging aura normally effects targets when the owner of the power hits or is hit in close combat right? Does that damaging aura with AoE explodes each times he punches or is punched? I can see that working for some characters but it doesn't really model being a huge ball of deadly radiation that well for instance. "no guys its all right, the radiation wont affect you as long as nobody punches him, or is punched by him...."
Finally, working on Hank I was wondering if you can buy power partially with modifiers and partially without. Say Hanks damaging aura. Could I give him that at rank 3 normally and then another 3 ranks with the only when leaping and AoE mods?
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Where was all of this feedback when I was announcing last call before we went to layout? ;)
Okay, didn't take too long that time. Here we go:
Force Dome
The wording on force dome seems a little wooly. That bit about if you had 3AP left from your last turn is kind of against all the conventions and streamlining you have set up elsewhere. It get confusing when you factor in things like held action where you really are storing up AP for later use. I think it might work better if you word it like reflection whereby you need to decide if you are turning it on and then can choose to use it if the situation comes up. It'll be more in keeping with your other reactive powers but this is strictly a wording issue.
The tighter rules on Force Dome came as result of the user being able to shield other models. We can maybe look at clarifying the text.
How on earth does damaging work with force dome? All the wording of the power describes it as being targeted at the wielder or a friendly model so is it them that takes the damage? As you can't target an enemy model with a force dome I can't see who you would want to damage with it.
If you hit the Force Dome it becomes like a Damaging Aura.
Haymaker.
Wow, this badboy isn't such a badboy any more is he? Strain is a better manoeuvre for anyone who isn't super strength 3 or better and stacking it with strain (part of what we used to call the 10 point combo along with precise) is just a defence fest for the opposing model. If the previously posted change is made to charging pretty much any time you attack an enemy model you are giving them a defence bump unless you stroll up and bop them on the nose with no cherry on the top. With flurry, haymaker and strain all giving the enemy extra defence bonuses there really isn't much of an incentive to stay in a combat until the enemy is down. The order of the day would be to pray for some knockback so that you are free to charge on your next activation (unless the charge rule also changes in which case it'll be bows and arrows all round!).
Well, you can't use most maneuvers on the charge anyway. Your initial charge, they'll get a defense bump, yes, but then once you're locked up with them, you can do maneuvers on subsequent rounds. We decided charging represented a wild, all-out move and attack that was mostly easy to see, but if you connect, can hurt a lot.
We'll have to re-adjust Strain. Law of unintended consequences there.
Combat reflexes.
Harsh negative man, really harsh. So your power is that you can escape from your foes by ninjaing (yes it's a verb!) out of the way but if you fail the test you fall flat on your face and get dog piled by everyone!? Like I said, harsh. While I'm at it how would it work re the free attacks. Would the enemy models have to choose an order in which to attack? If the first guy caused you a bunch of knockback would the others still get their attacks? If they do all get to attack does their knockback stack? Do you suffer just the first guys knockback or the highest?
If you fail, you can still leave, you just suffer free attacks, as normal. Just like you're leaving a combat normally, if the first or second dude knocks you back, you don't suffer any more free attacks.
For the non landing flyer, if I want to make a flurry and use my hypermove or whatever other movement that's not a charge to move between opponents do I make a TN-3 check once, once per enemy or count up the proposed targets and base the TN on the total enemies I wish to engage. If it's the latter and, say I want to attack 3 guys and I fail to get the TN-4 but do score three goals can I still attack the first guy or is the attack wasted? If I make an TN roll per enemy and I fail one do I have to land and finish the rest of the fights on foot? Can I attempt to take off again and continue my flurry?
Make the roll based on total foes you want to engage. If you fail, you still break free and can continue the Flurry, but if you suffer knockback or knockdown, it's done.
Okay, this one is a bit rules lawyerish but it has stopped me using immunity in the past.
In cloak, ranged attack and entangle there is the special effect immunity which states that the character is immune to the effects of it's own power. The first sentence of the effects section of each of these powers tells us that the character has the ability to use this power in the first place. Surely immune doesn't negate the power in it's entirety? My assumption is that the character is immune to the damaging effects of their own power (in instances such as a no range area of effect). The only time this is a bit sticky is with cloak. Which effects of the power is the character immune to? Is it the defence dice bonuses (the very heart of the power) or the effects of blinded (which means he can't charge, moves at half rate, has to spot anyone he wants to take action against and gives his foes +2D when attacking him and defending against him) or both? It'd be nice to think he'd get the power's benefits (defence dice) whilst paying to remove the hindrance which is blinded but it's not at all clear.
In the case of Cloak, you'd need to buy immunity to be able to ignore the move penalties and such associated with being in the cloak field.
Whilst I'm on cloak the effects of invisible as written are a bit of a headache. Okay so we know that an invisible model is cloaked (barring the 1" radius) so must also be blinded. In addition the rule gives the character hidden without the cost and movement limitations (the only cost mentioned is 2AP to use it and there are no movement restrictions mentioned). A hiding model's turn ends as soon as it is hidden and it cannot have a held action. So as written we have a model who can charge but moves at half rate, count's all his enemies as hidden but is also hidden from them with a +2D to his dodge roll with an extra +2 if he's in cover, gains +2D attack and defence if his enemy can't overcome the invisibility but also gives his enemy +2 dice attack and defence due to him suffering the effects of his own cloak. None of this matters however as as soon as he activates invisibility his turn ends and he can't hold an action! This one still needs work and those immunities need a good clarifying.
Invisible models do not suffer from Cloak's negative effects. They're not blinded. They don't grant bonuses to attackers.
Obviously, I need to clarify this.
We'll do our best to clarify this stuff.
P.S. I should add that the first line of Invisibility states:
"Purchasing this effect replaces the effects of a normal Cloak."
If you take that to heart, and read the text as written, nowhere in the Invisibility text does it state that the invisible model counts blinded.
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Where was all of this feedback when I was announcing last call before we went to layout? ;)
Stuck in a German gem mine without internet. True story. :D
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While I agree with soapy that linking power effects would be cool, I don't really read it as working that way.
How exactly does a AoE Damaging aura work, the AoE rules state that its full damage for touching and half for not touching. But when is this effect triggered? Damaging aura normally effects targets when the owner of the power hits or is hit in close combat right? Does that damaging aura with AoE explodes each times he punches or is punched? I can see that working for some characters but it doesn't really model being a huge ball of deadly radiation that well for instance. "no guys its all right, the radiation wont affect you as long as nobody punches him, or is punched by him...."
AoE DA trigger when a model enters the AoE, but the rolled damage is only half goals. Normal AoE's trigger on a successful close combat attack from either party (Target or Attacker). This could be punch, kick, grab, etc.
If a model begins its turn in a DA's AoE, roll the damage on him then.
Finally, working on Hank I was wondering if you can buy power partially with modifiers and partially without. Say Hanks damaging aura. Could I give him that at rank 3 normally and then another 3 ranks with the only when leaping and AoE mods?
You could buy them as separate powers and that would work neatly. Two DA's, one that works only when Super Leaping and an AoE. That's a pretty elegant solution! Good work!
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Looking over this again it looks like you are now allowing characters to stand up and charge in the same turn. This had always been a no no previously.
Yes, we've relaxed some of the restrictions associated with charging in hopes of creating a more dynamic game.
Interesting to see some of the core rule changes but it kind of feels like you are doing a '40k' on some of them and just changing them because there is a new edition rather than because they don't work.
All I can say to this is that it is not the case. The changes we've made have come from long discussions, play-testing, and/or from long held desires I just had not acted on to this point.
I feel like they're substantive. It bums me out you don't see it that way, but I do appreciate the feedback.
I like pretty much all the new powers and mods you've added and they all work really well for a tabletop skirmish game but the powers that seem to take up the most print room seem to be the ones that you yourself call PitA powers! With all the fundamental changes I would have liked to see more combat type powers added like Styx's persistent damage or the ability to give your character a weakness (I see it made it to the roleplay section but that kind of page space could have been devoted to a rule that could be used in general play with a tighter remit) that could further distinguish a bunch of hitty characters from each other.
We added Lingering to the Power Mods section, and that was inspired by Styx's posts. As to the weakness thing, it's really tough to do this and still maintain the competitive skirmish "balance'--I say this knowing my own games are not completely balanced. I understand this. But the Official Handbook PDF I am working on will have some alternate rules that might address this.
I probably shouldn't be moaning about it, I'm getting a new version of the game I've been playing week in and week out for a few years now but I've grown attached to 3rd edition and some of the little touches that have been taken out (like the ability to borrow AP from your next turn with activation cost) haven't always been outweighed by the new stuff. Still, I'm looking forward to the kickstarter and the shiny new edition (even though it's hard to tell from these posts... :( ).
Yeah, I am sorry you don't like the changes.
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You could buy them as separate powers and that would work neatly. Two DA's, one that works only when Super Leaping and an AoE. That's a pretty elegant solution! Good work!
Actually I figure the AoE should be on his leap DA rather then the normal one, he's always hot but explosive when he lands. Actually if I were to give him say this setup:
Damaging aura 3
Damaging aura 5
-only when leaping
-AoE Blast
-Does knockback
Lets say he leaps at somebody and punches them hard enough to knock back, in what order would things resolve? Him leaping activated the AoE and him moving made the opposition "enter" that AoE. However if that were to resolve first he couldn't complete the attack due to knockback...
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Actually I figure the AoE should be on his leap DA rather then the normal one, he's always hot but explosive when he lands. Actually if I were to give him say this setup:
Damaging aura 3
Damaging aura 5
-only when leaping
-AoE Blast
-Does knockback
Lets say he leaps at somebody and punches them hard enough to knock back, in what order would things resolve? Him leaping activated the AoE and him moving made the opposition "enter" that AoE. However if that were to resolve first he couldn't complete the attack due to knockback...
Yeah, that's tricky. Just off the cuff, I'd say he lands and his AoE blast takes precedence. So if it knocks the foe away, no more attacks would occur.
I'll talk to Dave about that one. That's a real timing issue that needs sorted.
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I'll talk to Dave about that one. That's a real timing issue that needs sorted.
Yea, sorry for jumping in with the difficult question after you were planning to close the playtest.
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The tighter rules on Force Dome came as result of the user being able to shield other models. We can maybe look at clarifying the text.
Not vital.
If you hit the Force Dome it becomes like a Damaging Aura.
That's really not clear. The force dome wording treats the power as a non attack power purely reactive in nature whilst the damaging wording treats the damage as being applied to the target of the force dome who is of course the wielder or a friend.
Well, you can't use most maneuvers on the charge anyway. Your initial charge, they'll get a defense bump, yes, but then once you're locked up with them, you can do maneuvers on subsequent rounds. We decided charging represented a wild, all-out move and attack that was mostly easy to see, but if you connect, can hurt a lot.
Seems that my fears about not having enough dice at character creation are unfounded. With a bonus dice of Dodge going to my model every time an enemy charges me, flurries me, strains or haymakers all of the chances to do extra damage come with a much higher chance of not even connecting with my model.
We'll have to re-adjust Strain. Law of unintended consequences there.
Haymakers gets nerfed and now strain gats nerfed too! All of my beloved combat manoeuvres are dying!
If you fail, you can still leave, you just suffer free attacks, as normal. Just like you're leaving a combat normally, if the first or second dude knocks you back, you don't suffer any more free attacks.
Yeah, but if you fail your defence dice are really attrocious because, by defenition if you fail a TN-3 check your dodge roll for being hit is only going to be 2 goals or less meaning there are bound to be some carry over goals for the guys hitting you. In fact with all the bonus dice my character would have been getting from the enemy if they used charges or combat manoeuvres I'd have been better served leaving my guy in combat. Add to that the fact that if I didn't have combat reflexes I would have had a chance to roll a dodge against each free attack rather than getting stuck with one really bad dodge roll. I know the trade off is suffering no hits at all by passing the TN check but for failure whilst using a power to be so much worse that no having used it at all makes it much less attractive when it's really needed.
Make the roll based on total foes you want to engage. If you fail, you still break free and can continue the Flurry, but if you suffer knockback or knockdown, it's done.
But my non landing flyer isn't trying to break free of anything he just want's to make his close combat attacks without landing so I don't know what you mean.
In the case of Cloak, you'd need to buy immunity to be able to ignore the move penalties and such associated with being in the cloak field.
So immunity removes the effect of blinded but leaves the character with the defensive dice bonus. I think that's what I got from that. I take it that the entangle and ranged attack immunities then do in fact only refer to being immune to the damage effect of the power. Still not clear.
Invisible models do not suffer from Cloak's negative effects. They're not blinded. They don't grant bonuses to attackers.
Quite right I did mis-read that. However the third sentence clearly states that the model counts as being in active hiding which would still mean that as soon as the power is activated their turn automatically ends and they cannot combine it with a held action. Even without all of the blinded issues of a standard cloak it's still impossible to actually use a character whilst invisible and all it really does is allow someone to go into hiding without being out of enemy LOS.
Obviously, I need to clarify this.
If you take that to heart, and read the text as written, nowhere in the Invisibility text does it state that the invisible model counts blinded.
No, you're right that was my bad it just states that they are actively hiding which ends their turn.
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Yeah, that's tricky. Just off the cuff, I'd say he lands and his AoE blast takes precedence. So if it knocks the foe away, no more attacks would occur.
I'll talk to Dave about that one. That's a real timing issue that needs sorted.
But the way it's written there there is no shockwave involved any more so it's just a DA that is stronger when super leaping into combat. On the turn he super leaps into combat he would do his normal attack then apply the 8D damaging aura to the guy he punches and 5D to everyone in the AoE (rounding) then the knockback is resolved as normal after a successful attack but taking into account the extra dice for an AoE attack.
No DA5 damage would be allocated unless he actually hit his CC target anyway as DA only causes damage on a successful melee hit. As he is not targeting a spot on the battlefield when he charges a specific enemy model if he fails to hit that targeted enemy then no-one in the AoE would take DA5 damage as there has been no successful hit that turn. However as enemies in AoE are auto hit he would still do the DA3 damage assuming that this is the same power bought with a split pool. If it is a completely separate power then I'm not sure if it would ever even go off as you are only allowed to make one attack each turn and you have used that allowance to super leap at a specific enemy model.
I think the more tricky question is if he super leaps and deviates does the additional AoE damage even trigger at the new landing point as:
A) He failed his attack roll so didn't get a successful combat attack meaning DA wouldn't trigger (assuming it's a single power with a split pool) or
B) It's a separate power with a 5D pool and so as he has made a melee attack already this turn meaning he cant trigger a second attack that turn.
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That's really not clear. The force dome wording treats the power as a non attack power purely reactive in nature whilst the damaging wording treats the damage as being applied to the target of the force dome who is of course the wielder or a friend.
We will try to clarify this. It is not intended to work that.
Seems that my fears about not having enough dice at character creation are unfounded. With a bonus dice of Dodge going to my model every time an enemy charges me, flurries me, strains or haymakers all of the chances to do extra damage come with a much higher chance of not even connecting with my model.
+1D is not much higher, IMHO.
Haymakers gets nerfed and now strain gats nerfed too! All of my beloved combat manoeuvres are dying!
We'll figure out some way to differentiate them, but I am sorry you think they're nerfed.
Yeah, but if you fail your defence dice are really attrocious because, by defenition if you fail a TN-3 check your dodge roll for being hit is only going to be 2 goals or less meaning there are bound to be some carry over goals for the guys hitting you. In fact with all the bonus dice my character would have been getting from the enemy if they used charges or combat manoeuvres I'd have been better served leaving my guy in combat. Add to that the fact that if I didn't have combat reflexes I would have had a chance to roll a dodge against each free attack rather than getting stuck with one really bad dodge roll. I know the trade off is suffering no hits at all by passing the TN check but for failure whilst using a power to be so much worse that no having used it at all makes it much less attractive when it's really needed.
But my non landing flyer isn't trying to break free of anything he just want's to make his close combat attacks without landing so I don't know what you mean.
You always made just one defense goal roll. You never rolled against each attacker separately. I re-wrote this power to cut down on the number of dice rolls in the power's "transaction". If you're running from a lot foes, and the TN=5, let's say, and you roll 4 goals, it's like you scored 4 goals on defense. Some of those free attacks will not hit you. Especially if you have Super-Dodge and use it to break ties.
The power give you a shot to leave free and clear, but if you flub it, you might suffer free attacks. The foe still has to hit you.
So immunity removes the effect of blinded but leaves the character with the defensive dice bonus. I think that's what I got from that. I take it that the entangle and ranged attack immunities then do in fact only refer to being immune to the damage effect of the power. Still not clear.
Yes. In the case of Entangle, you can walk through your own entangles. they don't hamper you.
Quite right I did mis-read that. However the third sentence clearly states that the model counts as being in active hiding which would still mean that as soon as the power is activated their turn automatically ends and they cannot combine it with a held action. Even without all of the blinded issues of a standard cloak it's still impossible to actually use a character whilst invisible and all it really does is allow someone to go into hiding without being out of enemy LOS.
No, you're right that was my bad it just states that they are actively hiding which ends their turn.
This text has changed. It's not in the docs you have access to. Sorry. Hide has been cleaned up and is now a maneuver. But I just need to remove the references to hiding in the power text, I suppose. It's the only way to avoid this.
Hide
AP Cost: 2 or 4
Effects: A model that starts its turn or ends a move in some sort of cover may choose to spend 2 or 4 AP to Hide. Models that spend 4 AP to hide count as having a Held action. A hiding model cannot be charged, or targeted by close or ranged attacks unless the potential attacker wins an opposed Sense vs. Dodge contest with the hiding model. Apply bonuses for range and cover to the Sense and Dodge goal rolls on this check. Once a model chooses to hide, its turn ends, except for any held action. A model remains hidden until the beginning of its next turn, at which time it may decide to perform other actions and/or hide again.
Opposing models may approach within 1” of a hidden foe, but may not make base contact with him. Models may not declare a Hide action while in base contact with enemy models. Additionally, unless some other power is at work, a model may not Hide while in direct, unobstructed sight of an opposing model, or while in open terrain.
A Hidden model may use a held action to make a surprise attack against a foe, or to move to another spot on the battlefield. Possible attacks include charges into close combat, ranged attacks, or any other legal attack action. The target of this attack gets to react with a free Sense vs. Dodge detection check. If the target fails, the hidden attacker gains +2D to his attack goal roll. When it makes a close combat attack, the hidden model is no longer in hiding. When it makes a ranged attack from cover, the hidden model becomes easier to detect, and foes gain +2D to Sense checks to do so once the ranged attack has been resolved.
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The key text is here:
Models under the effects of this power count as being in active Hiding without the costs, and movement limitations placed on normal hidden models.
The phrase "without the costs" means none of the bad stuff, including ending your turn and hampering your movement and such.
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This should be clearer, I think:
Invisibility (+5 pts.): Purchasing this effect replaces the effects of a normal Cloak. Cloaks with this effect do not shroud areas, but instead only the Cloaking model. Unlike normal Cloak, invisible models may charge, but foes who cannot detect them do not gain the normal +1D to Dodge.
Opposing models must spot Invisible foes before they can be contacted or targeted with attacks. Invisible models gain +2D to Dodge on checks to avoid being spotted, and an additional +2D if they’re in any cover, plus any dice from range. Foes gain +1D to detect invisible models who made a Strike-based ranged attack on their last turn, or who made a close combat attack against them on their last turn. If a foe beats the invisible model’s hiding check, the invisible model can be attacked, but still enjoys the benefits outlined below.
Just as with standard Cloak, invisible models gain +2D to Dodge and Strike goal rolls against foes who cannot overcome their power. Super-Sense and Second Sight still overcome this effect unless the model also has the requisite immunity effects. See Chapter 2 for more information on battling hidden and unseen foes.
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Cool, that's a lot clearer with those two clarifications. Just to play devils advocate thought (like that'll be a change) being that invisible is a part of the cloak power you could theoretically buy the damaging mod for it (lets assume the character turns into an invisible gas cloud or something). As there is no area of effect attached to the power any more would enemy models take the damage from the mod when they leave base contact with the invisible model?
I assume in this case that the damage is still halved (as it is even with single model entangles which also don't have an AoE).
You always made just one defense goal roll. You never rolled against each attacker separately. I re-wrote this power to cut down on the number of dice rolls in the power's "transaction". If you're running from a lot foes, and the TN=5, let's say, and you roll 4 goals, it's like you scored 4 goals on defense. Some of those free attacks will not hit you. Especially if you have Super-Dodge and use it to break ties.
The power give you a shot to leave free and clear, but if you flub it, you might suffer free attacks. The foe still has to hit you.
I can't find it anywhere in the breaking from combat section that you only make on dodge roll against any number of free attacks. Must have missed that or have an out of date doc. again.
With the ricochet special effect do you need to actually move into contact with the terrain, grown or DI'd model to 'bounce' off of it and re-enter the combat you left or is it sufficient that the required object is within 15"? If so can you just move an inch out of combat and then re enter the fight due to ricochet?
Really liking ablative, it's a kind of stepped burn out and adds a nicer way to represent ammo running out. I think that there is also room for something similar for say a 10% discount where the item is guaranteed to run out after three uses. Having said that though the element of chance always makes the game more interesting.
Do boons and banes count as powers for the purposes of power mods? They have their own section and in neither their intro or the power mods intro does it make clear whether they can be moded. I'm assuming they can as I seem to recall an example previously where berserker was moded with only whilst raging but the rules as they stand don't state it one way or the other.
Gadget pool is no longer # in my version of the doc. Is this an oversight?
None of the boons of banes are marked#. Does this mean that normal humans can have access to none of them or all of them?
You'll be pleased to hear I'm running out of stuff to check now. This is like three years of game playing and character designing creeping up on me and making me ask all of those questions that were not clear in the last edition. It'll be good to have the tighter language in this edition, even if I have to make enemies left and right to get it... :(
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I can't find it anywhere in the breaking from combat section that you only make on dodge roll against any number of free attacks. Must have missed that or have an out of date doc. again.
It's not in there, but it will be.
With the ricochet special effect do you need to actually move into contact with the terrain, grown or DI'd model to 'bounce' off of it and re-enter the combat you left or is it sufficient that the required object is within 15"? If so can you just move an inch out of combat and then re enter the fight due to ricochet?
It's an abstraction. So yes, so long as a foe or object is within 15", you're good.
Do boons and banes count as powers for the purposes of power mods? They have their own section and in neither their intro or the power mods intro does it make clear whether they can be moded. I'm assuming they can as I seem to recall an example previously where berserker was moded with only whilst raging but the rules as they stand don't state it one way or the other.
This needs clarified. Need to talk to Dave about it.
Gadget pool is no longer # in my version of the doc. Is this an oversight?
Yes.
None of the boons of banes are marked#. Does this mean that normal humans can have access to none of them or all of them?
Again, needs clarified.
It'll be good to have the tighter language in this edition, even if I have to make enemies left and right to get it... :(
It's not a question of the comments, it's the timing. Why now after we went to layout? Every change or addition I have to hammer in puts me in the doghouse with my layout guy. Where were you last week? ;)
And how about this?
IMPLACABLE CHARGE
BP Cost: 1 pt.
AP Cost: none
Effects: Models with this power fight well on the charge, and gain +1D to Strike goal rolls on charge attacks.
I have built dozens of characters in the last 6 weeks, and I can tell you, the new meta will advantage bricks and brawlers. They'll have more points to throw around on powers, and most will easily be able to scrounge 1 pt. for this.
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It's not a question of the comments, it's the timing. Why now after we went to layout? Every change or addition I have to hammer in puts me in the doghouse with my layout guy. Where were you last week? ;)
Okay this is going to sound like trumpet blowing and stuff but the wife is pregnant and the last few weeks have been a whirl of scans, telling family and all that kind of stuff but now I'm focused and back in the game! ;)
I think I'm done now though so I shouldn't be getting you in too much more trouble. :D
And how about this?
IMPLACABLE CHARGE
BP Cost: 1 pt.
AP Cost: none
Effects: Models with this power fight well on the charge, and gain +1D to Strike goal rolls on charge attacks.
I like that! Having thought about it without my petulant, hard done by hat on for a few minutes it now seem totally obvious that the charge should be extra damage rather than extra to hit as a standard. This power seems like a good compromise for guys who specialize in charging attacks.
I know I've been on a bit of a downer about the changes every damn time I respond to something but it's only because I loved how open and diverse 3rd edition was. A lot of the changes that have been made have indeed streamlined many of the rules and made things more standardised across the available effects but there were times when creating certain builds was a struggle under 3rd and there seems now to be even more restrictions and constraints making diversity and individuality more and more a thing of the past.
I mean, in a team where you are creating a diverse selection of styles of character, say one of each archetype, you can get a nice cross section of characterisation but for me, who likes to play within an established universe, it starts to get tough to make guys different from each other when the little things that could make them different are disappearing. Losing force field and armour was a real blow to be honest. As staple powers it makes sense from a streamlining perspective to shuffle them in with the attributes but from a character design diversity standpoint it took away some really characterful and interesting build types that you just can't do without those powers.
It's just a matter of accepting that 4th edition isn't just a tighter written version of 3rd edition but a truly different game with almost no relation to it's former edition. Get my head around that and I'll be fine! ;)
I'll take a step back again now that I've got it out of my system and hope that I haven't missed anything that'll nag at me until 5th edition rears it's head. ::)
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Congrats on the coming addition to the family, and thanks, as always, Soaps.
I really think you can get the sort of diversity you had in 3rd in 4th, you just need to have some time with the rules, all laid out and pretty, and easy to consume.
Reading play-test docs sucks, I know.
Anyway, you can split Attribute totals and apply Power Mods to them, use stuff like Only When and other conditional mods, and add in the new abilities like Tactician to model effects we could not do before.
The nice thing for you guys, and for us, is that once the KS launches anyone who pledges will shortly get a download for the PDF-in-progress doc. You guys will help us refine the doc even further.
While this will be a lot of work for us along the way, it will result in a better book. This sometimes awkward, but informative exchange, has already made the game better than it was two days ago.
Anyway, thanks!
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Ok, so I think I've got the hang of this now. I like the pulp alley pulp girl model, her uniformed look makes her a nice lieutenant model for my Anti-super PMC. I imagine her a bit like Shego from Kim Posible. (dont judge :P)
Here is a my attempt at statting her up, but if a glass cannon but very versatile I think.
Girl glover
BP: 75
AP: 8
Attributes
Stk 5 Str 2 Dge 4 Tou 2
Mnd 3 Res 3 Sen 4
Powers/Traits
The glove 31 point gadget pool
3 full slots
Slot 1
Ranged attack 7
Spray optional
Super 1
Slot 2
Force dome 5
Reflection strike
Slot 3
Super strength 2
Weapon 6
Super 3
Super strike 1
Reach 3
Vitality: 5
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Ok, so I think I've got the hang of this now. I like the pulp alley pulp girl model, her uniformed look makes her a nice lieutenant model for my Anti-super PMC. I imagine her a bit like Shego from Kim Posible. (dont judge :P)
Here is a my attempt at statting her up, but if a glass cannon but very versatile I think.
Girl glover
BP: 75
AP: 8
Attributes
Stk 5 Str 2 Dge 4 Tou 2
Mnd 3 Res 3 Sen 4
Powers/Traits
The glove 31 point gadget pool
3 full slots
Slot 1
Ranged attack 7
Spray optional
Super 1
Slot 2
Force dome 5
Reflection strike
I gave these a quick look, they look Ok.
Slot 3
Super strength 2
Weapon 6
Super 3
Super strike 1
Reach 3
Vitality: 5
On this last one, I don't think you need Super 3--the Super-Strength x 2 covers the super requirements for the Strength + Weapon combo. So that frees 6 pts. for other stuff if you want it. Or you could have 5 re-rolls on damage checks if you keep that Super 3.
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On this last one, I don't think you need Super 3--the Super-Strength x 2 covers the super requirements for the Strength + Weapon combo. So that frees 6 pts. for other stuff if you want it. Or you could have 5 re-rolls on damage checks if you keep that Super 3.
That was mostly due to lack of other options I wanted to add in. I guess a straight up strength boost might actually make more sense now that I think about it.
I'm actually considering re-statting her as a sidekick. The leader of her group actually doesn't need that many powers and I feel she might actually be more accurate to how I envision her at a lower power level.
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FYI, I've been able to work out a system with Joe D. where he and I can make a lot of fixes and tweaks to the text as he lays it out and creates the "styles" for the book.
So a lot of what has been discussed in this thread in the last 72 hours has been addressed. Let me know what else comes up.
We plan to make changes through the KS as backers get the prelim layout PDF and tear into it. This should result in a cleaner, clearer final product as we go to print.
Thanks!
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Very good to hear! in my experience a kickstarter often generates quite a bit of proof reading as well.
So next question, in a gadget pool all powers have the Gear Mod. Say my girl glover above gets hit while her glove is on blasting made, do I need to roll for the powers in all the slots or only the powers in the blasting mode slot?
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Very good to hear! in my experience a kickstarter often generates quite a bit of proof reading as well.
So next question, in a gadget pool all powers have the Gear Mod. Say my girl glover above gets hit while her glove is on blasting made, do I need to roll for the powers in all the slots or only the powers in the blasting mode slot?
You'd roll just for the active slot. If it breaks, you can't use it again that game. Think of it as a critical piece of the glove being shaved off or shorted out. But the rest still works--until other slots slowly get chipped away!
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Scott,
Question on Growth, if I had a hero with 5 STR and 5 TOU, with two levels of Growth, he goes to 7 STR abd 7 TOU. I would have to buy Super x1 for both STR and TOU?
Density Increase gives you a level of Super x1 to cover the stat bump while the power is working. If the above is a yes, then perhaps Growth needs to be considered?
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Hi!
Looks great
Looking forward to 4th ed. and the kickstarter campaing :D
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Scott,
Question on Growth, if I had a hero with 5 STR and 5 TOU, with two levels of Growth, he goes to 7 STR abd 7 TOU. I would have to buy Super x1 for both STR and TOU?
Density Increase gives you a level of Super x1 to cover the stat bump while the power is working. If the above is a yes, then perhaps Growth needs to be considered?
Yes, as it stands you'd need to buy Super-Attributes to support them. We'll look at this. Thanks!
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Folks, I uploaded the latest version of the SS4 rules on the public download site:
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
This reflects many changes and clarifications.
Check it out!
Thanks!
--Scott
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Yes, as it stands you'd need to buy Super-Attributes to support them. We'll look at this. Thanks!
Cool, guess you could always tag the stats "Always When ....." mod for the power.
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p 118-119 for the Shield Slinger template...looks like it should be Vitality 10....you noted +2 Vitality after RES, but you are adding both +1 STR and TOU, which would be another (+1 vitality on top of the +2).
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p 118-119 for the Shield Slinger template...looks like it should be Vitality 10....you noted +2 Vitality after RES, but you are adding both +1 STR and TOU, which would be another (+1 vitality on top of the +2).
Good eye! Thanks!
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Latest designer video here!
http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=e9e4ee64e030187bbfb2fb509&id=5663be817c
A link to 5 minutes of me talking about the Secret Origin of SuperSystem! I can't think of a better way to kill 5 minutes of work time!
;D
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Looking forward to this KS even if I don't play much Supers now or in the future.. Have SS 2nd Hardcopy and SS 3rd Softcopy (really wanted hardcopy but that is life...) and the progress/change is interesting to watch.
Gracias,
Glenn
Edit: at least I won't be forever receiving miniatures (Arc Worlde and Itar's Workshop (admittedly a very big order,) I am still waiting. The Russian Woman Combat Pilot thing is suffering from typical Russian/ex-Soviet bureaucracy bullshit. Andrew Maye did a awesome job of delivery. Ditto Kiery's VBlog, The McKrakken Gnomes for my wife, Robert Angell's VSF heavy weapons, and the Bug Hunt Corridors.
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Looking forward to this KS even if I don't play much Supers now or in the future.. Have SS 2nd Hardcopy and SS 3rd Softcopy (really wanted hardcopy but that is life...) and the progress/change is interesting to watch.
Gracias,
Glenn
Thanks, Glenn! I think you will be able to use these rules for all sorts of gaming. Moving forward any games I design will use this set as their base.
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Thanks, Glenn! I think you will be able to use these rules for all sorts of gaming. Moving forward any games I design will use this set as their base.
I have Chaos in Carpathia which I believe is the Goalsystem gaming also?
So will this be the base for more CAOS IN CARPATHIA/CAIRO/CHRONO/etc., type game sets?
Gracias,
Glenn
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I have Chaos in Carpathia which I believe is the Goalsystem gaming also?
So will this be the base for more CAOS IN CARPATHIA/CAIRO/CHRONO/etc., type game sets?
Gracias,
Glenn
No. Not necessarily. Lee Howard has taken up stewardship of the Chaos series, and he will likely keep to the older version of the system, which is fine. I've given permission to certain friends of mine (Joe, Lee) to develop Goalsystem games in whatever direction they want to take them.
That core mechanic, rolling a bunch of D6's and looking for 4+, remains a constant, but all the other stuff is subject to what they want to do.
Thanks!
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Kickstarter begins Monday, April 7th, 12:00 PM EST (USA)!!!!
Just letting folks know!
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Kickstarter begins Monday, April 7th, 12:00 PM EST (USA)!!!!
Just letting folks know!
Whoot! Will pledge at lunch at 1pm EST!!!
;D
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Folks, I uploaded the latest version of the SS4 rules on the public download site:
https://app.box.com/s/ei1dz124szjqsmaqc38l
This reflects many changes and clarifications.
Check it out!
Thanks!
--Scott
Alternate Form to Escape Artist not not in BOLD. After that all the power titles are.
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Since I am about to play a scenario, I noticed something with Tachyon Field. It supresses Hyper Movement and Super Leap....what about Flight? IMO it should be included.
Ranged Attack: Suggest break up the weapons table and put the two Melee weapons (and expand if you want) Ranged and Melee Weapons, put Melee under "Weapon" so players could gauge the correct levels?
Ranged Example:
Pistol - Ranged 3D
Shotgun - Ranged 4D, Spray
Machine Gun - Ranged 5D, Spray
Flame Thrower - 6D, Spray or Cone
Bazooka - 7D, Blast
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Alternate Form to Escape Artist not not in BOLD. After that all the power titles are.
Don't get hung up on any formatting issues in this doc. Save that for the laid out PDF we release once the Kickstarter gets underway.
Thanks!
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Don't get hung up on any formatting issues in this doc. Save that for the laid out PDF we release once the Kickstarter gets underway.
Thanks!
Will do, wasn't sure if that is what you was looking for now or still other refinements....
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Will do, wasn't sure if that is what you was looking for now or still other refinements....
You've proven to have a keen eye, so keep looking for any other irregularities or miscues.
Thanks!
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Kickstarter begins Monday, April 7th, 12:00 PM EST (USA)!!!!
Just letting folks know!
The Clock is ticking...
:)
Gracias,
Glenn
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The Clock is ticking...
:)
Gracias,
Glenn
Yes! Excited! Final prep is underway!
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You've proven to have a keen eye, so keep looking for any other irregularities or miscues.
Thanks!
Thanks, it is a new skill from my past jobs....I read contracts and grants for a living....content, wording, etc....
Excited about Monday! Whoooo!
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Also, if anybody knows of any shops who might want to back us, we have a level for them! So pass our info along to them once we go live.
Thanks!
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Also, if anybody knows of any shops who might want to back us, we have a level for them! So pass our info along to them once we go live.
Thanks!
We have a cool comic store in the area I will send the link to when it opens. Maybe I could arrange some demos.
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Another random thought: Flight, add it where 1 AP spent on flight is 1" movement instead of .5.
Keeps it in check against Hyper Movement and Super Leap but also makes it slightly more superior to walking on foot.
It keeps references speed but nowhere can I find it really helps with movement.
To me a flyer with less restrictions should be able to move faster than a person on foot.
Also in the p13 of the PDF and p66 Flight there is some duplication of rules. Seems to me you could remove the wording from the Flight power and reference the page for Flying rules to save some space and make a leaner document.
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Scott,
Hope you don't mind but I forwarded the promo message you sent out on the Super System Fourms....I plugged the KS on Monday with two groups local here in Florida....I am also going to let a LGS that is heavy into comics know about this as well once the KS launchers. I can every easy see the store having this on the shelf.
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Also, if anybody knows of any shops who might want to back us, we have a level for them! So pass our info along to them once we go live.
Thanks!
I will
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Thanks, guys!
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Just found out the white monsterpocalypse dice have a perfect layout for SuperSystem. 2 normal hits and one double hit and 3 blank faces. I'm sure the rest of you already knew this but I'm very happy as I have 20 of the things lying around!
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Backers Assemble! Less Than Four Hours Until SuperSystem 4th Edition Launches on Kickstarter
Four-Color Studios will be launching the Kickstarter for SuperSystem 4th Edition in less than 4 hours. This is your last chance to get on our mailing list and receive a free Major Meteor miniature. Two receive Major Meteor backers must maintain a pledge of Protector level or higher, and you must be signed-up to the Four-Color Studios mailing list prior to 12:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, on Monday, April 7th, 2014.
You can sign-up here:
http://four-colorstudios.us3.list-manage2.com/subscribe?u=e9e4ee64e030187bbfb2fb509&id=e5f3eda20e
Thanks!
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I might just have missed it, but i dont think there is an explanation for how you calculate the cost of complex powers. Lets say i have a 3pts/LVL power with a -50% effect and with a +10% and a+25% Mod in what order do i aply these and how much would that work out as?
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I tend to think of them as discreet costs rather that as parts of an equation.
Lets go with 10BP power as it keeps things simple.
From your example.
-50% 5BP off
+10% 1BP on
+25% 2.5BP on
Total 8.5BP and the rounding rule brings us to 9BP for the power.
If you look at the way things are worded the deductions and increases are shown as a fraction of the power cost and not as a fraction of the current cost of the power dependant on where you are in an equation. When it comes to things like BP/level cost powers the power isn't ready for deductions until you have built it so you don't need to worry about working out the deductions based on each level or worrying about when you apply the rounding. Just buy your levels and 'complete' the power to your satisfaction and then apply your mods with their associated costs/deductions to this BP total to arrive at your final cost in BP and then apply the rounding rule to get the cost of power to you.
With mods offering a mixture of set value and percentage deductions it can get mighty confusing when building a complex power. The discreet values method smooths the whole thing out and takes your calculation from a mind numbing mess to simple addition and subtraction.
Pinch of Salt time as this is merely a players interpretation after around 530 builds (all 3rd edition mind you) and I'm sure Scott will tell us if I've been doing it wrong. I wouldn't put it past me... :D
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We looked at this and added some re-worked text that clarifies and addresses this issue:
Calculating the cost of a power with Power Mods applied is a two step process. You must first calculate the Adjusted cost of the power by taking its Base cost and applying all positive Power Mods (if any). Then you can calculate the Actual cost of the power by taking the Adjusted cost and applying all negative Power Mods (if any). The Actual cost can never be less than half of the Adjusted cost.
Example: A 10 pt. power with +10%, +25%, and -50% power mods would have an Actual cost of 7 points (Adjusted Cost: 10 * 1.35 = 13.5 = 14, Actual Cost: 14 * .5 = 7).
Note Power Mods on the model’s SuperSheet under the power that they affect (in the same manner as Special Effects).
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We looked at this and added some re-worked text that clarifies and addresses this issue:
Calculating the cost of a power with Power Mods applied is a two step process. You must first calculate the Adjusted cost of the power by taking its Base cost and applying all positive Power Mods (if any). Then you can calculate the Actual cost of the power by taking the Adjusted cost and applying all negative Power Mods (if any). The Actual cost can never be less than half of the Adjusted cost.
Example: A 10 pt. power with +10%, +25%, and -50% power mods would have an Actual cost of 7 points (Adjusted Cost: 10 * 1.35 = 13.5 = 14, Actual Cost: 14 * .5 = 7).
Note Power Mods on the model’s SuperSheet under the power that they affect (in the same manner as Special Effects).
See, told you I was doing it wrong! ;)
Scott's way actually works out much better for you as you can see by the side by side on the two totals. Not only are you gaining a discount on your power but a discount on your positive cost power mods too, bargain! :o
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Glad i could help. I think this is one of those things everybody asumes it is done a particular way without hiving other potential interpetations a second thought.
On a side note, with the whole timing discusion on aoe damaging aura post jump, could i take damaging aura with aoe and "charge only" leap is a special charge i believe?would he get the damage bonus from charge on this attack?
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Glad i could help. I think this is one of those things everybody asumes it is done a particular way without hiving other potential interpetations a second thought.
On a side note, with the whole timing discusion on aoe damaging aura post jump, could i take damaging aura with aoe and "charge only" leap is a special charge i believe?would he get the damage bonus from charge on this attack?
The damage bonus on the charge adds to his own Strength, not the DA. So you'd resolve the DA damage and his Strength damage separately.
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Ah right, i asumed that by taking the "charge only" mod the aura would become a end of charge "action" but i see now that is a rather liberal interpretation of the rules.
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Scott, two more thoughts...
1) Healling should have the # for humans to use. To me I can see a doctor or medic saving someone life. How can that differ from cloak or force field?
2) I really don't see a special move for charge.....for example Cannonball that has a force field up and smashes into targets. Or a runner that could generate a force field and ram people...
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I still don't get the forcefield for humans... ;D
Healing sounds logical, I can also name quite a few heroes with secret identities who are paramedics or doctors so that would fit.
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Hey scot I assume your more focused on alternative paths to getting 4th published but I'm still bursting with idea's and question. :D
Is there a viable way to reverse Knockback direction? I was originally thinking about a gravity controling hero who would make black hole like AoE attacks, so they should suck rather then blow ;D
Then I realized that with a good way to do this you could have lassoo like effects and weapons with it.
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Is 4th available for purchase yet? I have decided that I'm done with Heroclix and want to get in to a new game to fill the time I used for it with a social activity I can geek out with. I figure that getting in to 4th when it comes out would be a good time to do it as I've been on the fence for a while now.
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Not yet
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Hey scot I assume your more focused on alternative paths to getting 4th published but I'm still bursting with idea's and question. :D
Is there a viable way to reverse Knockback direction? I was originally thinking about a gravity controling hero who would make black hole like AoE attacks, so they should suck rather then blow ;D
Then I realized that with a good way to do this you could have lasso like effects and weapons with it.
This is a good idea! I could see it as a Power Modifier called Power Pull, or maybe just Pull.
Pull
BP Cost: 5 pts. (?)
Effects: Characters purchasing this power mod must link it to one (or more) of the following powers: Elasticity, Reach, or Telekinesis. On any successful attack roll with the linked power, the attacker may move the model closer to him by 2" per net goal from the attack/defense exchange.
Maybe something like that?
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Is 4th available for purchase yet? I have decided that I'm done with Heroclix and want to get in to a new game to fill the time I used for it with a social activity I can geek out with. I figure that getting in to 4th when it comes out would be a good time to do it as I've been on the fence for a while now.
Joe has been taking a break to work on real-world stuff. He will resume work on the layout starting sometime next week. So we'll be back in the saddle and working soon! Thanks for your interest and your patience!
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While that would indeed be useful for simulating a slew of powers I was thinking more along these lines:
Reverse Knock-back.
BP: no idea
Effect: This power mod can be bought for any power that does knock back. (including those that normal don't but have the "does knockback" mod) roll for knockback as normal but the direction is reversed. For most attacks this means the target gets pulled towards the user while with AoE powers the targets will be pulled towards the origin of the AoE. The target can not be pulled beyond the powers origin point, or the centre of the AoE.
I think that especially in combination with AoE this might be pretty strong as it allows you to group enemies. Or even for instance an ally with damaging aura and multiple enemies.
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I like both of those ideas and they represent two different types of attack that are missing from the game.
Scott's version gives you a Spider-man like ability to pull some-one with a web line, the character is using some physical item to affect his opponent meaning that the enemy can only be moved directly towards the caster and is based on the ability to hit so is good for high strike characters.
YPU's version makes the ability non physical and so can represent more mystical or force based effects and is based on damage done so it is good for high damaging effects. As an additional effect of this mod you could pay an event higher BP cost and be able to choose the direction of knockback allowing you even greater character effects. Thinking about a Magneto like character imagine the initial hit as him picking up some metal debris and firing it at his opponent and then using the imbedded fragment to whisk your body across the battleground straight into the waiting claws of Sabretooth! This would probably be a very high cost mod but it would allow distance shooters to affect the game in a more interesting way than just a long range sniper and can help to further differentiate characters of a similar style.
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We ended up making it a Maneuver. Check it out!
Pull
AP Cost: +2 AP
Effects: Characters possessing Elasticity, Reach, Telekinesis, or any other powers that allow them reach can draw foes closer to them using this maneuver. On any successful attack roll with an appropriate power, the attacker may move the target closer to him by +2” per net goal from the attack/defense exchange. An attack with a subsequent Pull costs 5 AP. Targets pulled out of close combats with enemies do not suffer free attacks.
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I also added Entangle to the list of powers the maneuver works in concert with. That was a no-brainer! lol
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Entangle makes it a bit more tricky to be honest. What happens with an AOE entangle? Do you still pull towards the attacker or the centre of the entangle? As it can only be used on foes what happens if your friends are in the AoE as well? Are they left where they are whilst the enemy whiz across the gaming area? How would this interact with selective?
Why cant you use it on friends? With the ability to pull people out of a close combat without suffering a free attack your characters can remove the enemy safely from a close combat but can't save their friends from a beating. Maybe something like an unopposed grab?
Whilst I mention grab can a giant character remove a friend from a close combat?
Would the friend suffer the free hit if they did?
Assuming a giant has a reach of 6" could they grab a friend from 6" on their left hand side and put him down 6" away on his right hand side effectively moving the friendly model 12"?
How do you work out what happens to a friendly model once grabbed?
Can they be put down anywhere within the grabbers reach?
Does it cost AP to put a friend down?
Can a friend, or foe for that matter, be put down on top of a building within the grabbers reach?
Assuming the grabber is grown to a hight that would allow him easy access to the roof can he act as an elevator for friends by grabbing them and removing them to safety/delivering them to the fight?
As unopposed grabs do not count as close combat attacks can you do more than one in a turn?
How many enemy models can you grab at once, Would you need multiple limbs to hold more enemies at once?
Can a giant character who is grabbing an enemy model simply drop them from hight causing falling damage?
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I'll work on these questions and get back to you.
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Here's the latest text, now called Push/Pull:
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Push/Pull
AP Cost: +2 AP
Effects: Characters possessing Elasticity, Reach, Telekinesis, or any other powers that allow them reach can push foes away or them closer using this maneuver. Models with one of the above powers may spend 2 AP to push or pull a foe they have successfully grabbed. This assumes the model possesses the Strength to lift and move the target.
Alternately, the model may move itself closer to its foe using the normal movement rate while keeping the grabbed foe stationary. The model pays the AP cost for movement instead of the +2 AP in this case.
Models pushed/pulled from close combats suffer free attacks as normal.
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Hey, folks! Joe D is back to work on layout so I should hopefully be seeing some prelim pages soon.
It's looking like an August release! Fingers crossed!
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Great to hear! Let me know if you want any help with proofing, etc....
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That's what I'm talking about!
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That's fantastic news! I'll have to set aside some of my GenCon money for this.
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Couple of page-shots to show we're making some progress!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Supersystem4thLayoutpage100-101preview_zps7819028d.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Supersystem4thLayoutpage100-101preview_zps7819028d.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Supersystem4thLayoutpage100-101preview2_zps0163525a.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Supersystem4thLayoutpage100-101preview2_zps0163525a.jpg.html)
Thanks for looking!
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Those both look really good. I do hope you're still considering resurrecting the SuperFigs line as well, seeing these two pages reminded me that I didn't have either of these figures. :)
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Seeing Rich's version of Devil's Knight makes me want to get the model again using that artwork! He looks so badass!
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I agree, that artwork is sweet! I sense a Kickstarter! Serious, I would back a new wave of revamped SuperSystem figs....
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I agree, that artwork is sweet! I sense a Kickstarter! Serious, I would back a new wave of revamped SuperSystem figs....
That would be great but if it is not 15/18 mm I guarantee I won't buy them.
The old ones I bought are still in my inventory (or sold off) but won't buy any more 25+ figures as long as 15/18 mm exist (and they do for supers; now if I could just get Soldados de Cuera and Presidials in 15/18 mm I think I could abandon 25+ mm figures entirely...)
Gracias,
Glenn
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Any desire on my part to make new minis or re-launch the SuperFigs line is pie in the sky at this point.
I am squarely focused on editing layout for SS4, developing Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish, and also maybe working on some collaborative projects. And while I will never say never, I do not see myself helming another Kickstarter any time soon.
I am also working on a career-change, and I am not sure where that will take me.
I should add that SuperFigs are still available from Old Glory and Old Glory UK (via special order with Andy).
Thanks!
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Any more progress??
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Any desire on my part to make new minis or re-launch the SuperFigs line is pie in the sky at this point.
I am squarely focused on editing layout for SS4, developing Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish, and also maybe working on some collaborative projects. And while I will never say never, I do not see myself helming another Kickstarter any time soon.
I am also working on a career-change, and I am not sure where that will take me.
I should add that SuperFigs are still available from Old Glory and Old Glory UK (via special order with Andy).
Thanks!
I met you for like all of a hot minute at Origins a few years back, and you were a dude who obviously loved the hobby and gave himself over to it pretty much completely. I still have to paint that flying Samurai guy you gave me after indulging my questions for like thirty minutes. So, while part of me is sad that there are apparently no more Superfigs on the horizon, I'm very pleased with the ones I have, and I hope the career change is one that's a good fit. The important thing is to be happy and satisfied in life.
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I met you for like all of a hot minute at Origins a few years back, and you were a dude who obviously loved the hobby and gave himself over to it pretty much completely. I still have to paint that flying Samurai guy you gave me after indulging my questions for like thirty minutes. So, while part of me is sad that there are apparently no more Superfigs on the horizon, I'm very pleased with the ones I have, and I hope the career change is one that's a good fit. The important thing is to be happy and satisfied in life.
PM me about excess Superfigs...
EDIT: Also you can use email - ZorroGames AT att DOT net. I have a lot of 28/30 mm supers to offload...
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I met you for like all of a hot minute at Origins a few years back, and you were a dude who obviously loved the hobby and gave himself over to it pretty much completely. I still have to paint that flying Samurai guy you gave me after indulging my questions for like thirty minutes. So, while part of me is sad that there are apparently no more Superfigs on the horizon, I'm very pleased with the ones I have, and I hope the career change is one that's a good fit. The important thing is to be happy and satisfied in life.
Thanks! That means a lot.
It's a work in progress. The wheels are in motion, as they once said on Seinfeld!
Either way, we'll see what happens. I am still writing gaming stuff, and that's the important thing!
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Hi,
I don't know if it has been already posted, but I found really interesting videos on SS4 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfse7LL67lM
From this one, you'll be able to reach the whole serie.
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Quick update! Full layout is done! I did the first editing pass this morning. When I get the next, revised version back, I will send it out to a few folks from the KS for further editing passes.
Then we'll release the PDF for sale. Once it's been played, and I have gathered corrections and feedback, we'll release it on Lulu for POD printing.
We're getting close!
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really good news ! Is there any release date (at least estimating the month) ?
Will the final solo/coop rules will be integrated ?
thanks
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Looking forward to it! Games and Gears table should be shipping shortly, now just got to grab some MDF city stuff!
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really good news ! Is there any release date (at least estimating the month) ?
End of October? We'll see.
Will the final solo/coop rules will be integrated ?
thanks
Not sure what you mean by "integrated", but SoloSystem gets its own appendix, so yeah, they're in there. Consumes pages 151 - 163.
In all the book is 182 pages.
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I'll buy it for sure, then. Thanks
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... just got to grab some MDF city stuff!
What company do you buy from???
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What company do you buy from???
I have not purchased anything yet, been shopping around...
http://demoslasercutdesigns.blogspot.com/
They have some nice combo kits and expansions....prices are reasonable.
http://corseceng.com/terrain/
Has some nice 7/11 style buildings
Sarissa also....they have some nice buildings also....
Still shopping slowly and trying to figure out what I want....I am glad most of the companies are in the US as I am tired of getting screwed by the exchange rates and inflated shippping costs....
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Still shopping slowly and trying to figure out what I want....I am glad most of the companies are in the US as I am tired of getting screwed by the exchange rates and inflated shippping costs....
Hey, Patrick! Drop me a note via e-mail when you get a chance. My group has started on a couple projects that the buildings and other terrain would multi-purpose for supers as well. I've been digging through lots of options from better quality paper buildings to o-scale buildings and all stops in between. We could probably compare notes and then present things back here. Not to mention put on a nice game table on a future Games Day where we use the same game table setup for a variety of games...
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Still shopping slowly and trying to figure out what I want....I am glad most of the companies are in the US as I am tired of getting screwed by the exchange rates and inflated shippping costs....
Here are some more US based suggestions for you:-
http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/28mm-city-buildings/
http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/28mm-7-11-store-store-only-28mmdf124-1/
http://www.litko.net/categories/Main-Street-%2828mm-Building-Kits%29/
And some examples of some of these built:-
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?391258-28mm-Modern-Cityscape
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Hey, Patrick! Drop me a note via e-mail when you get a chance. My group has started on a couple projects that the buildings and other terrain would multi-purpose for supers as well. I've been digging through lots of options from better quality paper buildings to o-scale buildings and all stops in between. We could probably compare notes and then present things back here. Not to mention put on a nice game table on a future Games Day where we use the same game table setup for a variety of games...
I will, the Games and Gears city board will really add to that as well!
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Here are some more US based suggestions for you:-
http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/28mm-city-buildings/
http://gcmini.mybigcommerce.com/28mm-7-11-store-store-only-28mmdf124-1/
http://www.litko.net/categories/Main-Street-%2828mm-Building-Kits%29/
And some examples of some of these built:-
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?391258-28mm-Modern-Cityscape
Thanks, Litko's is nice but a tad expensive....will check out the other company!
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I have Demo's warehouse and the four shop buildings. Easy to build, shipped fast, nice models. I recommend them.
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I have Demo's warehouse and the four shop buildings. Easy to build, shipped fast, nice models. I recommend them.
They are top of my list!
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In regards to Corsec, I ordered from them over a month ago and they're yet to ship to me. Communication is pretty poor and I don't think I'll be using them again.
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In regards to Corsec, I ordered from them over a month ago and they're yet to ship to me. Communication is pretty poor and I don't think I'll be using them again.
Hence why I am slow to order....I try to avoid headaches like that, get a feel for feedback on companies and what the website states on turn around time.....thanks for the feedback.
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Corsec is slow, but he delivers. I think his business is overfilling his time allotment and his helper is not available now.
He's definitely slow, but he does get it to you. I've nudged him with a follow-up e-mail with good results.
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Looks like they have had some technical issues.
https://www.facebook.com/corseceng
10 September
So I think we got it! Here hoping the bugs are all worked out but orders placed through us should be getting an email directly from us in addition to the paypal receipt. This has been interesting as it isn't something Paypal makes easy to do but it appears to be working. Let us know if you place an order and don't see an email from us (in addition to the paypal receipt.)
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Thanks Maccwar, will do that now. ;)
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Just wanted to let folks know I got the second draft of the layout back with my initial corrections implemented and the book is looking sweet!
I will now get a few outside folks to give it a going over and we'll be one step closer to releasing the PDF for sale.
Thanks for your patience!
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A couple of friends have been talking about playing a supers game and SuperSystem has always been on my "wishlist." Should I wait for 4.0 in PDF or go elsewhere? Probably won't be ready to play anything before January, but would like to get started on some rules.
Thanks!
RH
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A couple of friends have been talking about playing a supers game and SuperSystem has always been on my "wishlist." Should I wait for 4.0 in PDF or go elsewhere? Probably won't be ready to play anything before January, but would like to get started on some rules.
Thanks!
RH
I think it would be worth the wait.
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But waiting is so difficult! (Even when there's no rush...) :) I suppose I'll wait for 4.0. I read through the Fast Play edition to get a basic feel and from the looks of it, it should be good.
I think it would be worth the wait.