Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Dewbakuk on April 05, 2014, 04:55:11 PM
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I've done it in the past very slowly with a pin-vice/hand drill but I need to do a whole bunch of them for pinning. I went out and bought a 'bosch' titanium drill bit but it shattered on the first attempt to drill with my dremel.
Anyone got a good suggestion rather than ruining drill bits at £5 a pop?
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You want the old alloy ones as the more recent imprints include steel and I think are slightly thicker
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Drilling tiny holes in hard metal is a rotten job. The only way I've ever found is to centre punch the spot, then have both the drill speed and the feed rate way, way down. I'm lucky I've got a drill press I can do stuff like this on, but otherwise I think an old-fashioned hand crank drill would be a better bet that a Dremel. If you can pick up a cobalt bit they tend to be slightly less miserably brittle than TiN bits in tiny sizes.
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Anyone got a good suggestion rather than ruining drill bits at £5 a pop?
I'm going to be an unhelpful sod and say that for that money, you could get quite a few Renedra placcy bases. :P
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Drilling pennies... more money than sense... Defacing the currency is an offense in law in the UK.
Washers already have holes
MDF or Plastic Round MDF bases Sarissa - 50 for £1.50 ... no drill. If you know where you want the holes email Sarissa and they could cut them with the pin hole in too.
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How big a hole?
cheers
James
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Another option with anything like this is heat the metal you're drilling until it's red-hot, then let it cool slowly, so it's as soft as it can be before you start drilling. Washers are an idea, but I suspect the hole will be in the wrong place and too big for the pin anyway lol
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First question is "why and what for?" then we can better answer since it seems that a better solution to what you are doing is in order, not a better way to drill... lol. However Good drill bits in a DRILL PRESS with the piece to be drilled locked in place is the way to go. Dremels are not well suited for drilling in hard material. A medium to low speed with a slow steady pressure. Cutting fluid will help extend the life of the drill bit, but all this is a lot of work for what you might possibly solve by another method if you let us in on the project.... ;)
Bill W
Now this is a "Drill Press" 50 year old Sears Craftsman floor model! Cast iron, 10 speeds, depth gauge, solid as a rock, in the corner of the shop.... I've drilled 1/32 holes in 1/16 plastic to 2 inch in half inch steel! :o
(http://www.HistoricalHobbies.com/Tools/press.jpg)
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What Vonluge said : drill press for a nice perpendicular movement, no high speeds and cutting fluid. And ofcourse a HSS drill bit, but I guess that titanium was just that.
I assume your going to create some flyer stands. Can't you just use washers and fill the holes with moldable metal putty. If you pop your pins in while drying, they're already glued in place.
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Drilling pennies... more money than sense... Defacing the currency is an offense in law in the UK.
Although it appears that the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act of 1981 repealed earlier applicable Acts, in particular the Coinage Offences Act of 1936, without instituting replacement rulings (still, I am under the impression that melting down coins to receive base materials for counterfeit money is still illegal). So technically, he should be on the safe side.
Not to mention that pennies and tuppence are actually "cheaper" for the consumer than steel washers of corresponding size these days. I'm still using up the stash I accumulated when living on the isle.
That said, I've always shied away from inflicting any "permanent damage" to coins (too much of a "law-abiding citizen", I guess), not in the least to the fact that you pretty much need a proper rig, as described before.
Finally, I'll echo the "more details" faction. I've had good success in attaching wood dowels to coins by use of paper pins to increase the glueing surface and get a bond between similar materials (i.e. metal on metal instead of wood). For figures, I'd probably wimp out and use plastic bases instead.
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First question is "why and what for?" then we can better answer since it seems that a better solution to what you are doing is in order, not a better way to drill... lol. However Good drill bits in a DRILL PRESS with the piece to be drilled locked in place is the way to go. Dremels are not well suited for drilling in hard material. A medium to low speed with a slow steady pressure. Cutting fluid will help extend the life of the drill bit, but all this is a lot of work for what you might possibly solve by another method if you let us in on the project.... ;)
Bill W
Now this is a "Drill Press" 50 year old Sears Craftsman floor model! Cast iron, 10 speeds, depth gauge, solid as a rock, in the corner of the shop.... I've drilled 1/32 holes in 1/16 plastic to 2 inch in half inch steel! :o
(http://www.HistoricalHobbies.com/Tools/press.jpg)
Handsome beast, that. Mine's bench-mounted, got a two-horse motor and is far too heavy for me to lift. Once I got it in place, it was staying there!. People tell me it's overkill, but when you've got a pile of doors you need to drill for cabinet hinges with a 2" Forstner bit, I'm glad of it. And oddly enough, so are some of the ones who reckon it's overkill, when they need something like that doing... ;)
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Yes, your right since 1978 it was no longer an offense to deface the crowns currency, or deface a picture of the 'queen'... however, it is legal tender and does cost the state - tax payer to make it, and at current costs not much less that the face value. That is why its no longer an alloy and now basically steel.
Re- what are you pinning? upside down flat head drawing pins on MDF or plastic bases sound a good solution.
Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.
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Wow, lots of replies :)
Okay, wood and plastic aren't any use as they need the weight. Essentially these will be used for basing clumps of bamboo. The intention is to have lots of 1p and 2p coins with tall bamboo clumps on. Holes need to be small, about 1mm. Washers are no good as metal washers are far more expensive than coins and tend to be made of steel anyway plus the hole in the middle would have to be filled.
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What're the bamboo shoots going to be made of?
If wire, I'd say bend it like staples- flat bottomed U-shapes where each upright is a shoot. That by itself, or twist two "staples" together in the middle to make a kind of cross-shaped caltrop with all four ends pointing up. Glue the flat bottoms down and cover/imbed with glue sand "soil", and you've basically got "roots" that'll make your shoots stable and well attached. It'll thicken the base slightly compared to drilling, but it'll be a lot easier.
*EDIT* Oooh. Strike that: no twisting needed, just make an extra bend in flat bottom of the individual "staples" so it contacts the penny's surface in a V shape instead of a straight line.
*EDIT PART DEUX* Like this, only, y'know, a bunch of them clustered:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/17/3269_06_04_14_5_43_22.jpg)
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I have the answer now that I know what you are doing, well how I would and have done similar things, no time now but will reply later tonight. ;D
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Although it appears that the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act of 1981 repealed earlier applicable Acts, in particular the Coinage Offences Act of 1936, without instituting replacement rulings (still, I am under the impression that melting down coins to receive base materials for counterfeit money is still illegal). So technically, he should be on the safe side.
There's an 'official' insight into English/Welsh legal half-truths and myths here
http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/Legal_Oddities.pdf (http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/Legal_Oddities.pdf)
Seems it's not illegal to deface a coin (thus all those machines that squish them into tokens?) but it is illegal to destroy it. It's not clear though if destroy includes the drilling of a few small holes. Just don't go handling any salmon in a suspicious manner ! :D
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Use plastic rod for the tree trunks, Evergreen does different sizes etc. Glues perfectly to plastic bases. It can be easily curved too with putting in to hot water. They do tube that sizes to fit rod into too, so the trees could be socket-ed in.
Ive used 20mm MDF bases for palm trees and they are stable. 25mm even more so... I posted pictures of some far east buildings a while back that show what I mean.
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If you must go this route you are welcome to use the pillar drill in my workshop
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Cheers Svennn.
Maybe I'm being paranoid about the stability. I'll try plastic and wood. I'll also try bending the wire and running it along the base, that never occurred to me :)
Some of the bamboo isn't wire cored but that is shorter and lighter than the others so a plastic/wood base should be fine.
Cheers all.
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Uncrimped eyelets might also work - you could glue the disc end down, leaving the tube sticking up, and insert any stems or trunks into that.
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Regarding crimps, have you seen the sort used by makers of beaded jewellery.
You can get them with a centre hole of about 1mm dia and a thickness of about 0.5mm, so glue those to your pennies, insert bamboo then sand to make flush?
Alternatively replace the crimps with snips of plasticard tube?
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I have done similar things before and "my" best solution was to have a round plastic (styrene) base with a washer or penny glued to the bottom for WEIGHT then just drill int the top soft plastic. Insert tree wire your good to go. Its really less work in the long run and much easier. ;)
I also use magnetic basing for the same purpose adds enough weight, easy to cut, and then I use a container with a thin sheet of metal in the bottom to store the delicate bamboo terrain pieces. Keeps them upright and nice!
Bill W
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More good suggestions, thanks guys.
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Well, tried a Renedra base earlier. Didn't work so well unfortunately, too top heavy and unstable. Bending the wire to base them works but seems a bit wasteful on glue/accelerant. Gluing a 2p to the bottom of the base makes it more stable but does double the base thickness. I'll have a try with an MDF base in a bit. I suspect I'll have to increase the base size if I go that route though to try and add stability.
I shall continue trying the suggestions and let you know how it goes :)
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A few years back I made a ton of penny-based saplings (tiny trees) to better fill in heavy jungle and woods. They do the job quite well, but are fiddly to make and to use... Based on that experience, I can't imagine putting anything taller than an average mini on a penny.
I would be very tempted to go for 40mm bases at minimum or better yet, some random shapes cut from plastic card. Definitely add some weight in the form of washers and build up the base with some putty to better hold the bamboo bits in place & make the whole effect more organic and irregular.
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Yeah, irregular/larger bases may be better in the long run. I did a big batch of long grass a while back on 2p pieces and they work really well at covering area and blending other terrain pieces. They are denser than the bamboo though and nowhere near as tall. A rethink may be in order for this.
The reason I like the 2/1p method is it allows you to move it around easily when figures walk through it as they are based the same way.
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The reason I like the 2/1p method is it allows you to move it around easily when figures walk through it as they are based the same way.
Totally agree.
That approach worked very well with my 'mini-trees'... But I suspect with the bamboo, that way lies madness. 2p coins and greenstuff should do the job, no?
Wish we had sensible, useful, economical 2p coins in Canada. ::)
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I wonder if some soft, cuttable metal like pewter or lead sheet would be useful...
... and looking at it, pewter sheet is pretty expensive. (£8 for a 10cm2 piece on ebay, £70 for 1' x 2' on Tiranti's website. :o ) There's a whole world of lead flashing and sheets I wasn't entirely aware of, though. And there's a couple of feet of offcut been put up on ebay recently.
Also, how would you feel about something like skirmish trays to slot the bamboo bases into?
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How tall is the bamboo
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How tall is the bamboo
From 3" to 6" approximately.
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Basing wise my advice would be if you are using two discs to make the lower of the two bigger if poss. So maybe use 20mm for top and 25mm for the bottom and then fill the difference with a slant to it. I find it helps to make it look less chunky, and helps it look better visually.
You could also try adding some small pebbles / gravel to the base to add weight for stability.
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How about metal buttons, the sort used on trench coats with 4 holes?
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How about metal buttons, the sort used on trench coats with 4 holes?
Ok you have just proved you are "slightly insane"! lol
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Ok you have just proved you are "slightly insane"! lol
lol
But they come pre-drilled with 4 holes!
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lol
But they come pre-drilled with 4 holes!
True...
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Actually, I was going to suggest curtain weights...
I think they would be perfect for what you want as well, not least because they are round and heavy, but are also fairly easy to drill/file.
I buy lead penny weights from Merrick & Day here (http://www.merrick-day.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.merrick-day.com%2f&WD=lead%20weights&PN=Merrick___Day_Lead_Weights_48.html%23aLPW#aLPW), and they are perfect for adding a substantial heft to plastic slotta bases.
Depending on how many you need, you could also try looking in any local haberdashers, or even places like EBay. Note that they sell different sizes as well, so if you do some searching, you can get all sorts of diameters and shapes.
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Curtain weights? That would never have occurred to me. I shall look into that, cheers.