Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: EdDowgiallo on April 14, 2014, 03:01:01 PM
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Please help me get out the word.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1607794842/modern-28mm-south-asian-wargaming-figures
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An interesting conflict to do figures for, and the two on show are very nice looking.
Shame its not had any extensive advertising/fore warning mind you. Has it just started or did it start on the 28 days time limit?
Best of luck!
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Great figures ,hope you do well.
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This KS is premature. No concept art, no advertising or lead in and no priming of the market on actions from the war or images of the troops involved. No identification of further sources of reference, just a summary copy/pasted from wikipedia of all places.
I think you need to put out an awful lot more information about your figures and the conflict, especially with such a large $$ funding level. You have nothing there that suggests you have researched the uniforms, equipment, forces or have any real passion for the conflict. Nothing that says you are at all invested in the success of the project.
Compare what you have put out with the Empress Miniatures project from last year:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/535186969/empress-miniatures-devil-dogs-and-dragons-28mm-fig?ref=live (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/535186969/empress-miniatures-devil-dogs-and-dragons-28mm-fig?ref=live)
There is a world of difference.
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The figures shown... they are greens fro Ebob for Radiodishdash... quite embarrassing way to start a Kickstarter... the thing does look a bit vapourware at the moment. I sincerely hope no one will be drag inside because this has a potential to turn uglier than the up-front KS...
Arrigo
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I wish then the best, but as sated earlier. They need to have pics, stated goals and would help if they already had a few figs already completed to show case there product.
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the view on this KS is too foggy for me. Two pics, nothing more. I can't believe, that this is well planned. Sorry, my oppinion. Interesting, but to risky for me. Empress was better, I think
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the view on this KS is too foggy for me. Two pics, nothing more. I can't believe, that this is well planned. Sorry, my oppinion. Interesting, but to risky for me. Empress was better, I think
and the pictures are from another company... :-X
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Please give me 20k, I want to kickstart my retirement dream of a wargaming holiday centre. That's what the KS actually says doesn't it? In return I will show you photos of a model by my proposed sculptor for another company, one that's actually making a product and wonder of wonder in this modern age, in the old fashioned way, making the stuff then selling it.
No, unlockable thingummies to appeal to the Pokemon generation and know real indication of what that 20K is actually going to buy.
Sorry, but this has to be one of the worst conceived bits of marketing I've seen in a while. Good luck with it all.
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Gentlemen,
The stated purpose of Kickstarter is to raise funds for artsy oriented projects. Their original guidelines stated that finished product should not be available at time of launch but sketches were suggested.
Empress Miniatures and Spectre Miniatures decided to launch projects to drum up interest in lines that they were/are committed to producing. Lines which included American and Commonwealth figures for which there are well established markets.
I am attempting to launch a line of Indo-Pakistani figures. Mongrel Miniatures did a line of Pakistani figures before Ben Checota bought them and effectively took them off the market. AFAIK, no company has done modern India. A major purpose of the Kickstarter is to attempt to assess if there is a viable market for these figures. If there is not a viable market, I will not produce the range and move on to another subject.
What is the $20K for? That's a reasonable question. Here is what it is for:
- The largest cost item is sculpting of 40 different miniatures. 20 miniatures of Pakistani troops and 20 miniatures of Indian troops. The bids I received from 12 sculptors ranged from $7,200 to $20,000. $12,000 is the amount budgeted for the sculpting.
- The second largest cost item is to bundle shipping costs into the figure packets being offered. Flat rate shipping to United States destinations is a minimum of $7.25 and to Europe is just under $25. At $6,000, I under budgeted this amount to make the offerings more affordable.
- The remaining $2,000 is for the production of molds and the actual casting of the figures.
The financial goal for this first project is to come close to breaking even on the introduction of a line of figures for an unproven market by a brand new company.
I appreciate the comments, but wish they would be a little more helpful. Yes, I am very new to Kickstarter. Yes, I would appreciate advise on specific places you think I should be advertising the project.
No, I am not going to pay out for concept art or test sculpts on this particular project. As some of you have noted, I decided to go with eBob, a very experienced sculptor.
One of the few backers asked that I post an example of the work done by the sculptor. I did. A pair of modern NZ figures done by eBob for another customer. The fact that he did it for another customer seems beside the point to me. It shows the high quality of his work.
If you have other questions, please post them and I will do my best to answer them.
If you have suggestions for proceeding, I would really like to hear them. I am considering:
- Reoffering the project with fewer figures, perhaps one fire team for each side to really lower the initial goal.
- Going the route of Empress and Spectre and reverting to more popular subjects with well proven markets.
Thank you,
Ed
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Thanks Ed. :)
To be honest I think you have the price and quantities pretty much right, although personally I would have no use for a whole company in 28mm... I'm not everyone though.
I can understand some of the guys being wary, but if e-bob is on technically' on board, that will calm some people. However KS generally start with some commitment from the people running it, even if it is only commissioning and showing one or two figures. The old adage 'speculate to accumulate' rings true.
You're asking people to commit to investing in your idea basically, an idea which you yourself have not invested anything in, beyond talking to a sculptor... at least that is how it seems, whatever the truth of the matter.
There is also just over two weeks remaining of the KS, which is very little time to 'spread the word', or for people to decide whether they want to pitch in. The time for initial suggestions and feedback has passed by somewhat.
I'm sure there are far more people that would be interested in your project than you seem to have attracted up to now and all things being equal, as a forum, I think I'm safe in saying that you would typically get far more support and interest here than seems to be the case right now.
However we all live and learn and if it does turn out you need to re-think things, I think you'll find you'll get plenty of friendly and valuable input here too.
If you do go down the road of 'popular subjects' - it's the 50th Anniversary of the formal deployment of American ground troops to Vietnam next year and e-bob has been slowly making figures for what he calls 'Recon 28' set in that conflict. A joint effort by you both to get that project and your company off the ground might be worth talking about to each other.
From a gamer's point of view there is a gap in the market for 28mm figures that cover the pre-1966 period, especially in terms of U.S. Marines with M-14s, ARVN, Ruff-Puffs and all that, most ranges cover the later 'M-16' period.
However... I don't want to write your current project off before its over and I think it's an original enough idea to attract people. Sadly it's not something I'd game myself. I do wish you luck with it though!
:)
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Thank you Arlequin.
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Well,
When I have read the first message, I'm immediatly going to see the KS page.
I'm not sure to play one day a pakistano/indian war, but, seeing more different modern troops and unseen nations is a good argument to give money for a project.
But, when I saw the few days before the end and the few money which is given... I think it's too late.
I know the good work of E.Bob, but I prefer see a model for the project.
SUrely if you have a range later of modern miniatures I will be very interested to buy some models.
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Thank you worrywort.
There will certainly be at least a small line of moderns by Autumn.
Ed
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I think a good kickstarter should show a little bit more than your kickstarter. An example is X-Over-Miniatures or Empress. Back for the unknown is too dangerous. Ebob is a good name, but his recon28-never ending story is not good advertisement for his name. A lot of gamers wait for this for so long time.
So I wish you good luck, but I do not see a big chance for it.
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That Ebob would be the sculptor is suggested by the photo of his work. Alas, that's somewhat undermined by the following passage from the KS page:
"I have mitigated this risk by lining up 8 different sculptors who are willing to work at rates within the budget of this project."
My reading of that is, that Ebob might not ultimately be the sculptor or sculptors may be substituted for part of the range. It might be sensible to linevup a reserve bench but it's hardly comforting to anyone contemplating investing. Who are these sculptors, do their styles match?
I have a reasonable idea of what it takes to get a master sculpted by a professional sculptor. That you aren't prepared to shell out a piddling amount to get a test sculpt completed, does not inspire confidence.
Sorry, due to its exotic nature I might have been tempted by this KS but if there's no personal investment I'm not going there.
Good luck with it though.
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Exactly, I like the idea of some Indian and Pakistani troops. Would definitely like to see some pakta helmets.
Next time might want to try maybe adding some pics of what your trying to complete. Like of the Pakistan troops and Indian troops. Maybe try the idea agine at a later date.
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This will be tried again at a later date. I will definitely include more pictures and more details.
Thank you,
Ed
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Ed,
Sorry if this appears to be a case of piling onto the bandwagon of kicking you and/or your kickstarter (and this really does go against my nature) but you did make requests very, very recently in other forums for info on TO&Es on the conflict. I, for one, made a number of suggestions for places where you could look for info and didn't get the courtesy of a reply. Furthermore when others suggested that they may get around to doing that research at some point in the future your response suggested that you wanted them to do it for you rather than put in effort yourself.
I can't speak for others but I enjoy poking around for info and it challenges my googlefu to do so. It often takes me off in directions that I hadn't dreamed of BUT it would be nice to have some sort of response even if it takes the form of "thanks but I'd already discovered that" and/or "here's what I already know; can anyone add to it?".
I wish you every success but to echo the sentiments of others this doesn't look well thought out or researched in advance,
Kind regards,
Andy
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I've asked for a bigger bandwagon... this one's getting cramped. ;)
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Actually hobbit, I've spent quite a few hours on the internet in recent weeks looking for TO&E information. I've found that unlike the United States, India and Pakistan regard low level TO&E as sensitive information. In spite of that, it is possible to piece together the information. I will be sharing what I have found on the TO&Es mailing list.
Since I have already put out some information on TO&E sections for India and Pakistan requesting verification of what I have found, I'm not quite sure where you get the impression that I'm looking for free labor.
I had been hoping this information would already have been put together by wargamers or military enthusiasts and available in the form of a book or ruleset supplement that I could purchase. Since this seems not to be the case, I have started collecting low level TO&E information in general with the intention of eventually publishing it, perhaps as article for SoTCW. We'll see.
A couple of you seem uncomfortable with the idea that I am subcontracting most of this and not putting in a lot of upfront money.
As far as subcontracting goes, this is basically the OEM concept that has been around in manufacturing for half a century.
As far as putting in upfront money goes, any company will do a market survey before investing in product development for an untried market. Kickstarter provides a means of doing this for free, so why wouldn't I? It makes it more feasible to attack a lot of areas where no figures have been previous produced.
I am putting up front money into a different line of miniatures which my company will release later this year. That however is going into a subject with an established market. I don't plan on going the route of Obscure Miniatures.
Who are the 12 people who voted for Pakistani troops in this forum's poll? I'd like to hear from them. Or should I not take those poll votes seriously?
There's still plenty of room in the current bandwagon, feel free to pile on.
Ed
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Hi Ed,
Really, really not looking to start a fight, but you made enquiries on another forum where I responded by identifying a few places where you could make enquiries and even posted a link to a low level org for Indian forces (even if it lacked specific equipment info) - I happened across this whilst researching other material but recalled your earlier enquiry.
As I said I enjoy doing the Googling as it leads me off into areas that I'd never usually look at and this was one of those areas. If I've found it for free I'll gladly share it for free :) My point really was that an acknowledgement of a reply to your enquiry would have been nice.
To be honest I now regret having said anything on this forum and I don't wish to overblow anything. I genuinely wish you well and I'll bow out of this gracefully if I may,
kind regards,
Andy
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Andy,
I do apologize for not acknowledging your help on TO&E.
Thank you for helping.
Ed
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PMs exchanged and all mended :)
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Apologies if my criticism sounded aclittle harsh. I now realise this wasn't intended as a real project, merely a free exercise in marketing research. Maybe let us know, the next time whether it's for real. Perhaps you could start your blurb with 'THIS IS NOT A DRILL' :)