Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Argonor on April 16, 2014, 08:30:49 AM
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EDIT: I changed the name of the thread. as there's no need to start a new one (and this one contains so much preciousss info).
Further is to be found at my blog: http://argonor-wargames.blogspot.dk/search/label/Chivalry
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I just ordered Crossed Lances, and apart from the knight participating in the tournaments I have an ongoing project surrounding the actual tournaments in mind.
For that I'll need various miniatures, and thus I need suggestions for the following (list may grow along the way, as I realize I probably haven't thought of everything)
A not so wealthy feudal mtd knight with lance and shield
(Preferably the same) mtd knight with hand weapon and shield
A very similar foot knight with hand weapon and shield.
There's a lot of splendid looking knights out there, but I would really like some models that seem less well-to-do - to represent a young knight who has just been given a hamlet to administer by his feudal lord.
Minis to represent the knight's family (wife, children, maybe parents, siblings)
Minis to represent the knight's household:
Servants, peasants/stable staff, blacksmith
Hunting dogs
other suggestions?
Various farm animals befitting a feudal household:
Pigs
Cattle
Sheep
Poultry
etc.
Soon after I'll need more peasants/womenfolk/children to represent the villagers living under the knights protection.
AND I need suggestions for, how to, and what is the best materials for, building a wooden palisade in 28 mm 'scale' .
The plan is to start with a stone house, surrounded by a palisade or low stone wall, adding a village and some fields. Later I'll make a small keep and extend the courtyard/walls.
I intend to let my kids participate in the project, Should be a blast to gather around a table with foamboard, icecream sticks, matchsticks, knives, steel rulers, and glue ad libitum ;D
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Minis to represent the knight's household:
Hunting dogs
other suggestions?
Various farm animals befitting a feudal household:
Pigs
Cattle
Sheep
Poultry
etc.
Warbases have very recently put out a selection covering most/all of the above. I don't own them, but they look very nice on the website.
Irregular miniatures do all of these, cheaply too, but I would be wary of buying things from them "sight unseen" - the quality of the castings seems to vary hugely.
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Curteys do Mounted Sergeants (maybe on foot too?) and they have a splendid Medieval Camp that would suit the occasion very well. Maybe keep one eye open for more of these kind of releases as I suspect there will be more. I read somewhere that there had been some heralds, mounted and on foot released too.
Darrell.
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Curteys do Mounted Sergeants (maybe on foot too?) and they have a splendid Medieval Camp that would suit the occasion very well. Maybe keep one eye open for more of these kind of releases as I suspect there will be more. I read somewhere that there had been some heralds, mounted and on foot released too.
Darrell.
Thanks, I've seen the heralds, but I cannot find the sergeants. They have some squires that I might need later on, though.
Warbases have very recently put out a selection covering most/all of the above. I don't own them, but they look very nice on the website.
Irregular miniatures do all of these, cheaply too, but I would be wary of buying things from them "sight unseen" - the quality of the castings seems to vary hugely.
I'll check out the two, thanks!
Now, any suggestions for the civilians - both the nobles and the peasants?
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Minis to represent the knight's family (wife, children, maybe parents, siblings)
Minis to represent the knight's household:
Servants, peasants/stable staff, blacksmith
Hunting dogs
other suggestions?
Various farm animals befitting a feudal household:
Pigs
Cattle
Sheep
Poultry
etc.
Soon after I'll need more peasants/womenfolk/children to represent the villagers living under the knights protection.
AND I need suggestions for, how to, and what is the best materials for, building a wooden palisade in 28 mm 'scale' .
Hi !
Take a look at Mirliton !!!
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=historical-2528mm-diorama-kits
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=medieval-accessories
"Tu y trouveras à boire et à manger" ;)
For the palisades , why not PVC bord , you could find sheets (1 , 2 or 3 mm ) at AntenocityGamesWorkshop or PlastCraftGames !
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Hi !
Take a look at Mirliton !!!
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=historical-2528mm-diorama-kits
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=medieval-accessories
"Tu y trouveras à boire et à manger" ;)
For the palisades , why not PVC bord , you could find sheets (1 , 2 or 3 mm ) at AntenocityGamesWorkshop or PlastCraftGames !
Thanks, I'll make a note of it.
I hadn't considered plastic for the palisades, but I'll give it some thoughts.
I just decided to go all in on plastic minis for the period (for the knights and retinues) - I'll probably have to paint up some of the rivals of my knight as well, anyway, for my kids to use.... ::)
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If you are going to use plastic miniatures, maybe just don't give your 'poor' knight a great helm, perhaps something more like a cervelliere or kettle hat instead.
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If you are going to use plastic miniatures, maybe just don't give your 'poor' knight a great helm, perhaps something more like a cervelliere or kettle hat instead.
Exactly: I'm buying the Fireforge Templar Cavalry & Infantry deal and am going to swap heads around to make matching sets, and There seems to be unbarded horses, too, which befits a poor upstart :D
Plastics are nice for a game where the pieces will see a lot of handling by non-wargamers, and I can do a lot of gaming pieces for the same price as buying 3 sets of 'official' metal knights.
I ordered the Foot Sergeants, too, btw - I am going to make an armed retinue for at least my main protagonist.
Lots of cash leaving my account, but I'll have all the feudal medieval stuff I'll need for a very long time.
Now I'm waiting for my rulebooks to arrive, so I can construct some tills and and archery range (and some poles with ropes to mark the arena for dismounted fighting.
I'm a happy (eastern) bunny! Been wanting to do some feudal stuff for quite some time, and finally I get the project on tracks (at least on the supply front)!
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The twins have just released some medieval civilians. I picked some up at Tactica and they're very nice :)
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The twins have just released some medieval civilians. I picked some up at Tactica and they're very nice :)
Sounds good - I'll be checking them out! :)
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Sounds good - I'll be checking them out! :)
Hmm... can't find them. Maybe they are too new for the website..?
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Black tree designs do some european villagers in their crusades range...
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Black tree designs do some european villagers in their crusades range...
Small range, but perhaps useable, thanks!
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Hmm... can't find them. Maybe they are too new for the website..?
From their Agincourt to Orleans range- here you go:
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_36&products_id=2985
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_36&products_id=2986
And:
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_36&products_id=2989
Darrell.
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Ah, thanks, they are quite lovely.
Note made!
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Ah, thanks, they are quite lovely.
Note made!
No probs :)
Darrell.
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Any suggestions for lower grade noble civilians?
The young knight
The young lady
Couple of ladies-in-waiting
Perhaps an older couple (the knight's parents)
Couple of young kids
I am going to center some gaming around the knight's family/keep/village/area of influence, with hunting scenarios, rounding up brigands, going to the tournament (Crossed Lances), participation in the feudal lord's border skirmishes with neighbouring lords, etc.
I am thinking of a 'tax/upkeep system' where, for instance, peasant families and fields add to the number of armed retainers that can be kept by the knight - thus, I have to build up the hamlet and the surroundings of the keep in order to paint retainers, so I won't bog myself down with plans of painting scores of minis.
I'll try to get other players to adhere to a similar system, so that the richer knights/nobles (those with more assets) will be the ones with the most retainers. Ambitious? Who, me? lol
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Hello Argonor
This is not sugestions for your civilians but for small warbands.
Knight, Man-at-arms, sergeants, crossbowmen, etc.
Its worthy to spend some time on this web site. :)
It gives some good ideas.
http://perrysheroes.free.fr/
Cheers
Rumacara
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Irregular miniatures do all of these, cheaply too, but I would be wary of buying things from them "sight unseen" - the quality of the castings seems to vary hugely.
Would you say their quality seems to be... irregular?
Okay, I'm just leaving now lol
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Hello Argonor
This is not sugestions for your civilians but for small warbands.
Knight, Man-at-arms, sergeants, crossbowmen, etc.
Its worthy to spend some time on this web site. :)
It gives some good ideas.
http://perrysheroes.free.fr/
Cheers
Rumacara
Thanks, I think I've come across the site before, but it's a useful resource!
I think I'll add it to my links list...
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On that site you can also find a free set of rules for small bands.
They are very nice and based on the Legends of The Old West.
Cheers
Rumacara
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Would you say their quality seems to be... irregular?
Okay, I'm just leaving now lol
I saw that awful pun myself, and deliberately avoided it.
But yeah, you might have a point lol
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First off, I like the scope and approach to your project! It sounds similar, but more thought out and ambitious, to what I'm planning to do with some form of chivalrous fantasy project. I'll be keeping tabs on this, for inspiration....
Any suggestions for lower grade noble civilians?
The young knight
The young lady
Couple of ladies-in-waiting
Perhaps an older couple (the knight's parents)
Couple of young kids
As far as the mini's you are seeking, they're not exactly low-budget (but absolutely worth it!) but have you looked at hasslefree? They seem to have a fair bit of that list...
The kids: http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=medieval-kids~hfh044&category=miniatures~juveniles (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=medieval-kids~hfh044&category=miniatures~juveniles) and http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=village-kiddies~hfv008&category=miniatures~juveniles (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=village-kiddies~hfv008&category=miniatures~juveniles)
The young lady (a bit on the feisty side, perhaps): http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=alicia~hfh060&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=alicia~hfh060&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans)
Lady-in-waiting/damsel in distress: http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=miranda~hfh030&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=miranda~hfh030&category=miniatures~fantasy-humans)
And the Fantasy villagers should provide you with an elderly couple(though she is a bit on the modern side...) as well as the always vital minstrel and village idiot: http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?category=miniatures~fantasy-villagers (http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?category=miniatures~fantasy-villagers)
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:-*
Those Hasslefree kids will be an absolute MUST ("Gwendolyne! In Heaven's Name, Stop shooting arrows at your brothers!!"). I can feel the inspiration for scenarios build around those kids coming on....
I'm not sure about Alicia, but Miranda I can see as the young wife of the knight, and some of the villagers should be useful - also as spectators for Crossed Lances!
Really nice pointer!
And if my feverish rantings can be an inspiration, by all means, don't hesitate sharing thoughts, ideas, and questions for discussion, for mutual benefit!
Now I need to find some unarmoured models for the knight.
- Standing
- Riding
- Hunting (foot and mounted) - The boar hunt could make for a great gaming scenario with the right planning....
I THINK I've seen some models of a Norman hunting party at some point, but at the time I did not see any use for it... ::)
Oh, and I've labelled the project 'Chivalry' and have begun recording my plans on my blog, too.
If this keeps unfolding at this pace, I'll have a lot planned, when my rulebooks and plastics arrive! And my fingers itch to start assembling some minis! And it's actually the first time since very long that I've felt like scratchbuilding some stuff - and probably being able to involve the kids in the building process, may have something to do with that... :)
This is what I think I'll be able to do this year (I have plenty of other projects to see to, you see ;) ):
Phase 1:
Goal 1: Acquire rules and minis. Almost check!
Goal 2: Read rules, and construct the necessary equipment/terrain for tournaments.
Goal 3: Construct and paint at least 2 mtd knights with lances to try out jousting rules.
Goal 4: Construct and paint at least 2 mtd knights with hand weapons to try out the mtd close combat rules
Goal 5: Construct and paint at least 2 foot knights with hand weapons to try out the foot close combat rules
Goal 6: Try out archery rules (I already have some painted archers)
Phase 2:
Goal 1: Construct the 'castle'
Goal 2: Acquire minis for the household. Paint them along the way.
Goal 3: Acquire or construct the first peasant hut.
Goal 4: Acquire and paint the first peasant family.
Goal 5: Make pigsti
Goal 6: Acquire and paint livestock
If I complete the list faster than expected, I'll add to it, but let's see about that...
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Barony Miniatures also makes several knights with a fair amount of variety available. They also make a war dog and handler pack, a herald mounted and on foot and a warrior bishop. The service from Max is always top notch as well.
Allen
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Barony Miniatures also makes several knights with a fair amount of variety available. They also make a war dog and handler pack, a herald mounted and on foot and a warrior bishop. The service from Max is always top notch as well.
Allen
Cool, I'll go check right away. thanks! :)
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Are the Barony Miniature 28 or 25 mm? Especially the peasant rabble and the levies could be interesting if they are 28 mm.
And does anyone have experience with Baron Wars: http://www.baronyminiatures.com/Baron-Wars.html ?
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They are 28mm. I have a fair number of them.
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They are 28mm. I have a fair number of them.
Check! :)
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How would you rate their looks "in the metal", rampantlion? They're a bit early for me, but matching foot and mounted figures are too rare to ignore...
Unarmoured knights are quite hard to find, I've found. Apparently knights tend to spoil quickly unless they're canned.
I know I'll be having some really odd domestic scenes, seeing how I only have my knight in full armour and great helm on. ;D
For hunting parties, you could also look for the old late '90s GW Bretonnian squires. The mounted ones have boar spears (backed up with bows) and the foot ones are all archers, but they're decidedly civilian in look. May a bit late era for your tastes though.
(And they seem to be somewhat subject to that odd form of Ebay Tourettes, where the seller needs to compulsively shout "Vintage OOP RARE" all the time.)
Oh, I'll share. :D Though it's all just in the collecting and painting cool stuff stage for me at the moment. And like I said, I've got a more fantasy bent on it, so I'll be adding "weird stuff" as I go along as well as intermixing it with my Dungeoneering ideas. Like you I am planning to have adventures revolve around a knight and his associates and holdings.
I have to say, I really like your idea of linking retinue size to the size of the size and prosperity of the knight's village/demesne! It's a good extra reason to add civilians to your games. I like civilians...
It also gives you the option of having a scenario where the knight is away on some quest or duty, and his wife has to lead the peasants (and maybe a few left behind retainers) in the defense of the village against a mob of roaming bandits.
I'll go check out your blog now, I think.
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Not much there, yet, that I haven't spilled here already, but there might be a few other things of interest to you.
The roaming brigands/mercenaries are a great foundation for scenarios, and the theme can be varied with a bear, a pack of very hungry wolves (not realistic, I know), and even monsters, when you allow the fantasy touch.
I'm pretty sure, there must be some medieval nobles in 'civilian gear' out there, not just kings and queens, it'll just take some time to track them down.
Right now I'm just waiting to receive the stuff from a couple of orders (one of them is War Rocket and a handful of small spacecraft that I need to get ready for Attic Attack), then I'll have my hands full (I intend to have some Crossed Lances gear ready for Attic Attack, too) for quite some time.
Just when writing this, I remembered the old Metal Magic range; I think I might be able to find something useful there, Turnkey Miniatures is selling the range now.
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This one might be useable: http://www.turnkeyminiatures.com/Cup-Bearer_p_24.html
- if I don't find another, better solution...
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They are chunky, no flash, clean castings. They have a lot of character (interesting facial expressions, realistic poses, etc...). I heard someone else say that they are somewhat of a throwback in sculpting style, but I am not sure. Are you familiar with Scheltrum Miniatures? If so, they look almost identical in sculpting style and size. They are about the same size as Black Tree, but a bit thicker. They mix really well with them though. I mix them with Old Glory without problem also. The horses are large, but not as large as Black Tree. They only have a couple of poses of horses, but the unbarded ones are nice as well with a fair amount of decoration on the horse harness. Hope that helps a little.
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Thank you for the review, Rampantlion.
I've recently finished painting my knight's fighting retainers* (except his squire), and got to thinking about his possible civilliany retainers and serfs. So I was reading through this thread again for ideas and manufacturers;
Argonor, somewhere on the first page, Byblos linked to Mirliton's page (http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?page=2&cName=medieval-accessories&sort=1a).
Would those medieval lords work for your knight and lady? They're advertised as 13th century, so they should fit right up your (feudal) alley?
*: See my thread (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=45968.45) for them, don't want to clutter up/hijack this one...
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Argonor, somewhere on the first page, Byblos linked to Mirliton's page (http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?page=2&cName=medieval-accessories&sort=1a).
Would those medieval lords work for your knight and lady? They're advertised as 13th century, so they should fit right up your (feudal) alley?
I somehow missed the 'Accessories' section. Lots of useful stuff, there!
I'm still waiting for my Crossed Lances rules, and the boxes from Fireforge to reach me... :?
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Hi !
Take a look at Mirliton !!!
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=historical-2528mm-diorama-kits
http://www.mirliton.it/index.php?cName=medieval-accessories
"Tu y trouveras à boire et à manger" ;)
For the palisades , why not PVC bord , you could find sheets (1 , 2 or 3 mm ) at AntenocityGamesWorkshop or PlastCraftGames !
This was a really good lead! Thanks! As I wrote earlier, the second link eluded me at first.
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I received my Fireforge order Saturday, and I have begun constructing the first horse. I have other projects brewing, too, though, so it's a bit on and off.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--4xmiNQAL_A/U24NFvwqFwI/AAAAAAAABO8/M43mKxBjB8g/s1600/Fireforge_Order_01-400.JPG)
The past week I have been trying to make sense of the Crossed Lances rules, but I must say, they are a HUGE disappointment. They are poorly written, full of contradictions, and contain some totally random mechanics that I simply cannot accept in a game that represents a competition in which skill and endurance meant everything. Thus, I'll have to rework/reinvent them for my own purposes. I'll probably reuse a few things/ideas, but the tourney game I'll play will be very different from the one some of you may have witnessed at salute.
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I have begun writing my Chivalry rules - beginning with foot combat, and there'll be one mode for skirmishes, and one for single combat/tourney melée.
Each character in the game, typically knights and squires, but it will be up the players how many they want to flesh out, will have a characteristics profile, similar from what you may be familiar with from rpgs, containing both strengths and weaknesses (how to force a player to use weak characteristics is still eluding me, but I'll think of something).
As soon as I have the rules for a full turn sequence, I'll start playtesting.
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Hello Argonor
Check also Front Rank for peasants, archers and accessories.
Dont forget Wargames Foundry for some very nice packs of civilians and a pack of a knight arming with peasants/servants helping him.
Cheers
Rui
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Hello Argonor
Check also Front Rank for peasants, archers and accessories.
Dont forget Wargames Foundry for some very nice packs of civilians and a pack of a knight arming with peasants/servants helping him.
Cheers
Rui
Thank you, I shall keep those in mind - acquiring minis has been put on hold while I get my rules written - I simply need a fun system that will work for both tourneys and skirmishes, and I think I am on the right track - using some more detailed modifications of the rules for tourneys, where fewer combattants are usually involved, but all (or most) are Player Characters, reserving the simpler, faster version for dealing with lowly commoners.
It's been a while since i last fiddled with rules, and it's the first time I grit my teeth on writng a 28mm ruleset from scratch, but I enjoy the process. :)
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Haven't forgotten this, just haven't had time to work on my rules for a while. I'm going to bring my laptop when going away on camping - with no figs and paint in sight, I should be able to get some work done in the evenings!
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Haven't forgotten this, just haven't had time to work on my rules for a while. I'm going to bring my laptop when going away on camping - with no figs and paint in sight, I should be able to get some work done in the evenings!
Looking forward to see what you have come up with.
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Damn, this has been lying idle for far too long! I really need to get something done about it :?
Too many projects, too little time ::)
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Nice to see this thread pop up again in my notifications. :)
I hope the break has restored the mojo lost from the rule set mishap?
The approach you are planning, of linking retinue to village size and driving the story from there really intrigues me, I'd love to see more...
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To be honest, I don't plan to continune the project right now, I just stumbled on the thread by accident - I am doing a long lost Pulp project for the 'It's Alive! Painting Club' right now, and I am finishing some DreadBall minis and working on a fantasy viking project on the side, but I certainly am returning to this as soon as I can squeeze it in. Don't hold your breath, though, as it might not be until after the summer holidays lol
The fantasy viking project, on the other hand, should provide some experience to be used for the Chivalry project, as it is centered around some rpg'ing with my daughters, and we shall be building the characters' settlement, and collecting and painting some of the inhabitants - much like planned for this, but with less coherency between models and scenery.
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Yeah, I saw the pulp project, good stuff.
I'm not trying to rush you, don't worry. :) I'm just glad this project hasn't been abandoned, but is just resting. It's been an inspiration, as well as a useful point of reference for me.
Oooh, I'll check that viking project out then! Great way to have some family time like that...
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Yeah, I saw the pulp project, good stuff.
I'm not trying to rush you, don't worry. :) I'm just glad this project hasn't been abandoned, but is just resting. It's been an inspiration, as well as a useful point of reference for me.
Oooh, I'll check that viking project out then! Great way to have some family time like that...
Yes, being able to combine gaming and family time is really great (check out the girls bashing the hell out of me in D&D Attack Wing, too, on the blog lol )!
We haven't done that much, yet, just created characters, some rudimentary background, and started a small adventure.
I also got some minis to use for it, but as I am trying to finish my first DreadBall project (1 team, 1 ball, and 1 referee) alongside the Pulp project (and recently started in a new job), they are just standing in line atm.
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OK, it's been over a year, but I have returned to my plan about making some rules to use instead of Crossed Lances'.
No piccies, yet, but I have assembled a couple of lance-wielding knights and the first playtest was done this past Saturday.
It is my plan, for now, to assemble another 6 knights, and then start painting them; They will not only make it possible to do a small participation jousting tournament, but also provide the first 2 points of 'Hearthguard' for a C&C warband.
I'll start posting more regularly (I hope), and with pics of WIP, as soon as I get stuck in (have a couple of tasks to complete in and around the house this week).
Sorry for the meager info, but I had to squeeze this post in between a lot of real life business.
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So, a piccie of the WIP knights we used for playtesting.
I expect to make a blog post about the testing session this evening or tomorrow, and I'll give due notice here when done!
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6jLfSygWCTI/VwN2g3r0cXI/AAAAAAAAEe4/zm5YHGAVEEEc9qy7Bph9tRcHtjkd1ctbg/s400/2016_04_05-Fireforge_Templar_Knights_Lance_01-01-600.JPG)
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For your medieval civilians and hunting parties:
http://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/collection-3
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Some useful stuff, there, especially for the bigger picture of this project. :)
I may well get some of those.
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I made a little progress lately - having outlined my jousting rules and actually playtested the draft.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7GYhCc0D6c8/V3wFZGVjqGI/AAAAAAAAF1U/s3gGPDSryHYX9v8gv9LH8Vd811Y4sAFDgCLcB/s640/2016_04_05-Chivalry_Joust_Test_01-01-600.JPG)
I have moved away from using CL as the base, and am now working on a system using dice-pools - but more to follow somewhen later!
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That looks very interesting. I look forward to seeing what you've come up with. :)
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Yes, what Ray said... :D
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It is a bit on hold, again, while I struggle to get some Vikings painted (and then I have to prepare for Attic Attack IV), so we shall probably se autumn before I make further progress.
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Now that I've finally found a cavalry basing solution I can (sort of) live with, I may very soon be doing some medieval stuff, again.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x59Msoo3IHo/WxvrkJPJ3aI/AAAAAAAAJ6A/fHspAMlFa_cGycZQY-hltQj1ywER-cqxwCLcBGAs/s1600/2018_06_09-Cavalry_Bases_WIP-01-750.JPG)
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I think, I may just have cracked how to make Tourney Archery work... ;D