Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: doctor_ocks on April 18, 2014, 06:48:42 AM
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EDIT: new direction - see post below
I've recently developed a love affair with airships, specifically used in a fantasy setting. In my search for material to get the creative juices flowing, I stumbled across Spelljammer. Before you laugh, I actually really like the idea of airships (think flying boat) in space. Also, my kids recently watched Treasure Planet on Netflix and that got me all excited too. The possibility of smashing a fantasy world with Firefly/Serenity is cool to me. Basically, I thought it would be fun to create a campaign setting for Song of Blades and Heroes that can take place on different planets/asteroids/moons.
So my question is, is there anything else out there in literature, games, or rules that puts elves/dwarves/orcs on space faring vessels but still has a high fantasy skin? Has anyone else done this? How'd you explain the absolute impossibility of a flying wooden ship passing through a planets atmosphere or people being able to breath in a vacuum? Does it even matter?
I recognize that this is not everyone's cup of tea but humor me :)
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Sundered Skies is a fantasy setting for Savage Worlds. It revolves around exploring islands floating in a fathomless void, populated by all kinds of fantasy races:
http://www.tripleacegames.com/store/sundered-skies-products/sundered-skies-core-setting/
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How'd you explain the absolute impossibility of a flying wooden ship passing through a planets atmosphere or people being able to breath in a vacuum? Does it even matter?
I recognize that this is not everyone's cup of tea but humor me :)
Wizards! Wizards did it!
Seriously though, thats a pretty cool hook. It opens up a lot of imediate world building thoughts: If wizards are needed to traverse the aether, there'd propably be a "navigator" wizard type on each ship. They might have a guild. Some games could be build around taking out the enemy vessels wizard, or unravelling the wizards guild hedgemony.
Ship to ship battles in the stelar void sounds pretty cool as well.
That being said, I havent got any cool ressource links, only this enthusiastic rant ::)
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Anything John Carter of Mars related should do the trick. Just replace their 'science' with magic and you're good to go.
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There is also the option of removing the space element...and replacing it with a world where you have a lot of oceans...island kingdoms and yet at the same time, flying kingdoms (think Avatar etc. --- huge floating islands in the sky). Even a planet the size of our Earth would be quite huge if your airship only traveled 15-25 mph/kph while in flight. You'd essentially get the exact same feel without having to explain the navigation of space/atmosphere etc. Because the world could be 2/3rds or more water it would also explain why your ship would indeed be an airship...(possibly with a water-capable hull).
Certain parts of the world could have different temperatures, crazy weather, certain islands could be at a higher altitude etc. It would open up a lot of variety in a slightly easier fashion. Not trying to steer your designs, just thinking of some options. I friggin' love Firefly and that whole idea so a fantasy one would be even cooler. lol I like where you're going with this (besides you could have gaseous beasts who exhale the equivalent of helium...used to power your ye-olde bag ships... lol
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My friend Jennel did the original spelljammer cover. Tis a classic!
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There is also the option of removing the space element...and replacing it with a world where you have a lot of oceans...island kingdoms and yet at the same time, flying kingdoms (think Avatar etc. --- huge floating islands in the sky). Even a planet the size of our Earth would be quite huge if your airship only traveled 15-25 mph/kph while in flight. You'd essentially get the exact same feel without having to explain the navigation of space/atmosphere etc. Because the world could be 2/3rds or more water it would also explain why your ship would indeed be an airship...(possibly with a water-capable hull).
Certain parts of the world could have different temperatures, crazy weather, certain islands could be at a higher altitude etc. It would open up a lot of variety in a slightly easier fashion. Not trying to steer your designs, just thinking of some options. I friggin' love Firefly and that whole idea so a fantasy one would be even cooler. lol I like where you're going with this (besides you could have gaseous beasts who exhale the equivalent of helium...used to power your ye-olde bag ships... lol
Yes, this is actually it - the SF version actually came into being when the earth got to small, and what we got is Start Trek style.
a bit pointless to retrostyle it back to wooden ships, since the only other thing You get is problems with physics and a lot of "planets of hats"
liftwood should be enough bending, or not?
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Another good source of inspiration, if you're going the space-less route, is the Nausicaa Manga by Miyazaki. It's loads more detailed than the movie and has tons of cool airship designs and fantastic creatures. Final Fantasy 12, from the old PS2 days is a good airship story too, with a floating continent, magic stones that cause airships to fly etc. Worth a look I reckon. :D
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If you're into anima, check out the series"Last Exile". Lots of Airships. And as was said before the Nausicaa manga is a gem. Check it out.
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Thanks everyone for the help and inspiration. I'll let you guys know where this ends up!
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I think I'm abandoning the idea of space travel and returning my world to a single planet with airships behaving the way we'd expect them too. I just can't get over space travel feeling cheese-y. Originally I had the idea of the world having suffered some kind of magically induced rending where big terrible monsters came through and turned the world on its head. I really enjoy the anime Attack on Titan, so borrowing from that, I'm imagining the major cities having erected massive walls to keep the nightmares at bay. As previously mentioned all also create smaller villages/settlements out in floating rocks as being on the ground in the wild is the fastest way to get eaten.
This is where the airships come in. They're the fastest and safest way (and sometimes the only way) to get people (and more importantly cargo) from place to place. With that in mind, I had a few questions that I thought some of the more aeronautically inclined amoung us might be able to answer.
The airships I'm imagining would be like traditional "age of sail" vessels - but they fly (equipped with steam engines for lift and a combo of sails and engines for forward movement). Because I'm a nerd about stats and backstory, I started researching ship speeds of the time. Obviously it depended on the wind, waves, ship, etc, but it seems like 10-15 knots was a good speed for a cargo ship like a Galleon. Then I started looking at the WWII era airships. The Hindenburg had a cruising speed of 67 knots. Which is more "realistic" for my make believe fantasy airships? How fast is too fast before crew are getting blown off the deck?
Another question is about altitude. I don't want the crews to have to be wearing snow suits/oxygen masks to be able to survive. The Hindenburg cruised about 650 feet. That feel about right? Obviously that depends on the terrain etc. Again, we're dealing with an open deck and an unpressurized ship.
What do you guys think?
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I loved Spelljammer when it first came out. I endured so much crap from my D&D buddies for liking that. It doesn't matter how it works; do what you like. I love magic powered spaceships.
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the problem is not the oxygen, but altitude adaptation. As long as You don't go over 2000m, it's basically ok. if You rise or fall too quickly, it can be a problem
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This would all depend on what the atmosphere is like on your planet. Perhaps high altitude doesn't thin the oxygen as much (or the entire oxygen level used by creatures/beings is higher/lower than Earth). Perhaps weather is far warmer, so altitude doesn't frost over as much.
Regarding speed - real simple. Put your hand out the window of your car while driving. You'll find 10-20 miles and hour is okay. More than that, namely 60-70 mph would be very tough/nigh impossible to work on an open deck (unless you want guys using carabiners and special equipment to work under such conditions). Still aerial travel at any speed faster than walking would be a worthwhile venture. Particularly if able to carry large amounts of cargo.
If you're using magic rifts etc., you could consider maybe the ships traveling on wind currents driven by these magical rifts/tears. With a dangerous ground-level you can get cool fortresses built high on mountain tops, re-fitted with food and equipment by airship. Maybe some risky underground tunnels/cart systems for those who risk it. Perhaps dragons and other flying beasties who present a serious threat even while airborne?
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I have a possibly off-topic question about your world. When did the monsters attack out of the rifts? How long ago did the cities build the walls and fortifications, and how long ago did airships become a fact of life? I ask because if the events happened long ago, many of your questions can be answered with "that's how it's always been".
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This would all depend on what the atmosphere is like on your planet. Perhaps high altitude doesn't thin the oxygen as much (or the entire oxygen level used by creatures/beings is higher/lower than Earth). Perhaps weather is far warmer, so altitude doesn't frost over as much.
Regarding speed - real simple. Put your hand out the window of your car while driving. You'll find 10-20 miles and hour is okay. More than that, namely 60-70 mph would be very tough/nigh impossible to work on an open deck (unless you want guys using carabiners and special equipment to work under such conditions). Still aerial travel at any speed faster than walking would be a worthwhile venture. Particularly if able to carry large amounts of cargo.
If you're using magic rifts etc., you could consider maybe the ships traveling on wind currents driven by these magical rifts/tears. With a dangerous ground-level you can get cool fortresses built high on mountain tops, re-fitted with food and equipment by airship. Maybe some risky underground tunnels/cart systems for those who risk it. Perhaps dragons and other flying beasties who present a serious threat even while airborne?
Right on thanks. Some great ideas there. I was thinking of having mechanically propelled air travel be about 20-30 mph but then having low level "jet streams" move at about twice that speed. This streams would be a by product of the rifts. While they're faster, the "streams" would also be monitored by [enter generic tyrannical empire name here] Navy meaning that smugglers and the like would probably avoid these or use other not so well known streams.
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the problem is not the oxygen, but altitude adaptation. As long as You don't go over 2000m, it's basically ok. if You rise or fall too quickly, it can be a problem
Okay thanks. I think I'll stick with around 500-1000 feet.
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I have a possibly off-topic question about your world. When did the monsters attack out of the rifts? How long ago did the cities build the walls and fortifications, and how long ago did airships become a fact of life? I ask because if the events happened long ago, many of your questions can be answered with "that's how it's always been".
I was thinking around 100 years ago. Long enough for a generation of humans to be around who do not know the world to be any other way, but not so long ago that some of the older races would have forgotten.
My favorite stories always involve good people with rebellious streaks and lovable brigands. I'm also a bit of a libertarian and one of my favorite topics is what freedoms are you willing to give up for safety - possibly get eaten by a giant monster-demon-thing or live your entire life like cattle behind a giant wall. I imagine most of these walled metropolises being rather Tyrannical in how they treat their citizens in order to keep the peace. This would leave some fun doors open for the more free spirited citizens of the world something to rebel against.
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The idea of it being a lost human colony and the floating ships/islands idea is reminiscent of an old game called the Skyrealms of Jorune. Maybe it's worth reading a bit about it, see if there's any inspiration there?
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/03/retrospective-skyrealms-of-jorune.html
As the article says; I remember it having a rish and interesting background, but I don't think we ever played it more than once!
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I was thinking around 100 years ago. Long enough for a generation of humans to be around who do not know the world to be any other way, but not so long ago that some of the older races would have forgotten.
My favorite stories always involve good people with rebellious streaks and lovable brigands. I'm also a bit of a libertarian and one of my favorite topics is what freedoms are you willing to give up for safety - possibly get eaten by a giant monster-demon-thing or live your entire life like cattle behind a giant wall. I imagine most of these walled metropolises being rather Tyrannical in how they treat their citizens in order to keep the peace. This would leave some fun doors open for the more free spirited citizens of the world something to rebel against.
I like this idea. So while the world is indeed very dangerous (warp beasties or dragons flying around etc.) the over-powerful kingdom/empire plays it up much bigger than it is to keep the people subdued and dependent...so your airship pilots are brave rogues, which are not necessarily criminals but viewed as a bit crazy/brave by average people. Due to the fact that they travel wide and far the airship crews/pilots would pose a bit of a threat to the empire because they might spread information around when in dock etc...or they deliver goods which are rumoured to be extinct or unavailable. Empire soldiers/customs guys might be really strict on airships looking for smuggling of goods/people etc. Trying to keep information/rumours/free thought limited amongst the populace.
Perhaps the empire cities even have dragon-riders (police etc.) yada yada. Lots of cool potential there for an abrasive relationship with the powers that be.
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Just wanted to mention that another possible reference source for ideas is the old 70's-era sci-fi Callisto series by Lin Carter.
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The idea of it being a lost human colony and the floating ships/islands idea is reminiscent of an old game called the Skyrealms of Jorune. Maybe it's worth reading a bit about it, see if there's any inspiration there?
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/03/retrospective-skyrealms-of-jorune.html
As the article says; I remember it having a rish and interesting background, but I don't think we ever played it more than once!
Cool thanks. I've added it to my reading list!
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I like this idea. So while the world is indeed very dangerous (warp beasties or dragons flying around etc.) the over-powerful kingdom/empire plays it up much bigger than it is to keep the people subdued and dependent...so your airship pilots are brave rogues, which are not necessarily criminals but viewed as a bit crazy/brave by average people. Due to the fact that they travel wide and far the airship crews/pilots would pose a bit of a threat to the empire because they might spread information around when in dock etc...or they deliver goods which are rumoured to be extinct or unavailable. Empire soldiers/customs guys might be really strict on airships looking for smuggling of goods/people etc. Trying to keep information/rumours/free thought limited amongst the populace.
Perhaps the empire cities even have dragon-riders (police etc.) yada yada. Lots of cool potential there for an abrasive relationship with the powers that be.
Yes. This. Exactly my thoughts.
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Just wanted to mention that another possible reference source for ideas is the old 70's-era sci-fi Callisto series by Lin Carter.
Oh I like the look of those ships! Thanks for that.