Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Altius on April 28, 2014, 03:35:26 PM
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I realize this is open to a lot of speculation, but I'm looking for opinions about how uniformly equipped and dressed would Late Roman comitatense and limitanei infantry units be. Would all the men have the same pattern helmets and shields? Would all of them have the same color tunic with the same patterns, or would there be some variation among the men?
I want to paint some Romans as they might look stationed in Britain or the German frontier. I would imagine that limitanei would be the least uniform and even the more regular troops might have to make do with supply shortages. But still, I wonder if painting a few with different colors/patterns would look unrealistically rag-tag.
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Worth looking at the figures you want to paint, you will notice that there are degrees of uniformity even in armour/helmet design etc, a common aspect is to tie in the unit perhaps with shield design or a general colour with the tunic etc but the glory of the period is they were often variations or local kit.
I dont think you can go wrong with variation in this period :)
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Hello all
Altius, if you go for the logic, romans stationed far from their homeland or at least from large centers, where doomed to be the last ones to receive new equipment or replaced it so they probably, and especially in late roman empire, would have a mix of equipment and clothes.
With constant civil wars and invasions, live would be harder even for a military machine such as rome so their soldiers would have some mix of clothes and equipment.
About local clothes that would depend on the time they where serving there. At least some variations would exist in their clothes and a mix of old and new equipment would be a common feature at least in some places.
Cheers
Rui
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Even during the height of the empire I would expect the equipment in a cohort to vary somewhat - with different styles of helmet and armor, and tunic color (primarily red or grey in different shades). I might be inclined to keep shields the same, but wouldn't be suprised if these varied during periods of transition.
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Well said.
And even the shields would probably vary if they jumped from action to action new shields would probably dont be painted at all or just the base color without the simbols.
Cheers
Rui
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I read somewhere that Limitanei, who were permanently stationed in one place, would be more likely to be uniformed because they were always in one place, all got their kit from the same place, etc, whereas the mobile field armies went where there was trouble so would get what kit they could where and whenever they needed it and subsequently would be less uniformed...makes sense to me.
Ref shields, I take the view that the symbols in the Notitia represent parade or 'ideal' situation and that in action, while some shields would be like that, quick replacements would probably be much simpler in design. My own late Roman/Roman-Brits have a colour scheme for shields, but are not fully uniform throughout the units. Check out my blog and look for the posts about my Belisarian Byzantine WAB army, as that will illustrate what I mean.
But it's all conjecture...paint what feels right to you... :D
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As usual we don't know much for sure but looking at the tremendous amount and variety of places, countries, nations and prehistories of particular legions and military unis we probably may expect a certain degree of disuniformity there. Also the so-called barbarisation of the Roman Army in the Late Ancients could play it's role in that.
Regarding being permanenty stationed in one place, I think that on the other hand this also could lead to growing variety of uniforms. Living for years in one place, far from the capitols of the Empire and being depended on local replenishment, could lead for its part to the necessity for using clothes, arms and armours slightly or more than merely slightly different from whatever the standard might have been.
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My understanding of the mobile field armies is they were the best equipped and a priority to keep well supplied as they had to do the most fighting, however since they were the most active their equipment and uniform saw the most use and would wear out faster. So, question is would you represent them just after re-supply or just after campaign which I'm sure probably would look different.
As to the limitanei the closer to Rome the better equipped and the farther away the worse. They were of less priority then the field armies so would receive new equipment more sporadically, but they also of course had less wear and tear and so easier to maintain uniformity, but everything wears out eventually.
I think it's all about impression and what works for you. If I were doing limitanei I would go for a more rag tag look simply based on the fact it looks less professional and a mobile field army more uniform to give the better equipped look. However, some could argue the opposite saying a beat up looking army looks like they have seen action. Basically, you have quite some room to do as you wish without actually being right or wrong.
Christopher
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Cannot add to the advice already given here, but if you take just one point, Altius, let it be: do whatever looks right to you.
There are a number of theories, if, to what degree and why or why not Roman soldiers through the ages were uniformed. Some have become prevalent – e.g. Early Imperial legionaries in segmented armour and red tunics – but none is generally accepted. This blurred view might well be down to the topic itself, and so we might assume that any kind of differentiation/unit-building through uniformity or a lack thereof was in fact, sooner or later, coincidentally or intentionally, blurred.
To give just a few examples: It is doubtful that limitanei were considered (and paid) worse than their comitatenses brothers; their terms of service might have been actually more attractive than the comitatus approach of "roam the empire, see the world". Also, Late Roman military equipment was designed to be easily manufactured and repaired, be it by state-run workshops or the soldiers themselves, wherever they were garrisoned; hence limitanei and comitatenses may have shared a common source of fairly standardised equipment. And still Late Roman culture attracted a lot of 'barbarian' people, while the very same 'barbarians' were considered by the Romans as virile or cunning and were therefore imitated in appearance – neither aspect could aim to obliterate the other, and so there was likely no difference between 'barbarian' and 'Roman' elements or designs but rather constant assimilation in the Late Roman army.
It is all a big mess really! Thus, for wargaming purposes, where figures are deployed in any kind of unit, you're probably better off with a certain degree of uniformity. As wargamers we love clear cuts and a bit of good, old-fashioned cliché, so why not run with it? Other than that, as said before, do as you please. :)
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All very useful stuff here. Thanks to all who have made an input.
M