Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Weird Wars => Topic started by: Arcturus on May 16, 2014, 06:18:30 AM
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So Dust Tactics goes the KS route. Not sure what i think of this but we'll see next week. Minis are nice though i probably go in big.
http://www.dust-tactics.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/181/Default.aspx
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Not sure if a KS is appropriate, but the setting is VERY interesting to me.
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I'll have to take a look at this. As long as the kickstarter is self-contained it makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is if you have to buy the basic dust game or rulebooks separately from the kickstarter to get use out of the kickstarter stuff.
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Been looking forward to Babylon but in the time it's taken Battlefront to get round to sorting this out, we could've had some of the Babylon releases in our hands. They're talking about releasing it all in one go but if they'd been on the ball in the first place, we would have had some of this stuff already.
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This is one I will be watching with interest though as I'm currently on the fence about selling off my Dust collection
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Are they coming out with new models or more re-boxing of previously released ones?
I'm not interested in the Dust rules or figures, just the vehicle models.
The re-releases of the Dust stuff by Battlefront do not have the same value as previously ie only 1 weapon set/turret for model instead of all three. So I am interested to see what the bang for your buck is going to be in the kickstarter.
What I liked most in the pics was the Babylonian wall ruins in the background of the last pic.
edited to fix typo [bank to bang]
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Are they coming out with new models or more re-boxing of previously released ones?
I'm not interested in the Dust rules or figures, just the vehicle models.
The re-releases of the Dust stuff by Battlefront do not have the same value as previously ie only 1 weapon set/turret for model instead of all three. So I am interested to see what the bank for your buck is going to be in the kickstarter.
What I liked most in the pics was the Babylonian wall ruins in the background of the last pic.
Agree with you on the value of the re-releases by Battlefront. In addition they've upped the price as well.
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The first thing I notice is when sculpting/designing the USMC troops they evidently went with Jungle as the theatre, not just from the uniforms and equipment, but also the miniature with the twin machetes. I just wonder why they would include that particular mini in the promo for their desert war release....
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I'm with Agis, quite interested in North African theatre, not sure about KS - and probably will not be able to afford it either.
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Are they coming out with new models or more re-boxing of previously released ones?
There are pictures of the three starter sets for the kickstarter over on the Dust forums (http://www.dust-tactics.com/tabid/89/g/posts/m/8708/Kickstarter.aspx#post8708). Some new models, some old.
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A short heads up for all those interested: The Kickstarter is scheduled to start today May 20th at 8 pm GMT.
https://www.facebook.com/DustGame
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Oh joy. Some limited levels to fuel the early birds...
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Already extremely annoyed with this kickstarter:
- Very first time I come to the page almost nothing but sold out pledges.
- No mention of whether the game is self-contained or you need to buy another rulebook thats not even offered in order to play it.
- Stretch goals are not posted on the homepage but hidden in the updates
Have they done a KS before? I would say this already reeks of bungling!
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And if someone want to take a look at the KS:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon
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axabrax, this is not a "stand alone" game. This is a campaign expansion of the existing game. You will need a copy of that rule set to play.
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The main rules for Dust are actually free form their website, but there is a new hardback book that includes lots of extras, including the board-free version that effectively replaced Warfare. They have said that they plan on adding the new rulebook, dice and templates in as add-ons. But given the rest of their pricing, I would expect to find those cheaper elsewhere.
Yesteday they also introduced a new beginners level with the main rules and a much smaller starting force
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OK, what am I missing here?
Looking at the KS page, everything seems to be already made and tooled up for Aug delivery, so what do they need the KS money for? To pay for molds they already had made?
Also, looking at the prices, where is the value for your money rather than waiting until its released retail?
The KS I have supported in the past have been for stuff that needs the money to be made and released, as well as being good value for the money, ie cheaper than waiting for it to hit retail?
As this KS has already made enough to fund, someone likes it.
So again, what am I not understanding?
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Normally Dust Studios releases two units at a time, using the funds for those to pay for the next batch. The Kickstarter is, apparently, to try and pay for the whole lot up front, allowing them to release it all in one shot.
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I decided to jump in on this one. I think the game looks cool and the premium prepainted deals are actually much cheaper than if you bought the premium models separately.
I think they went with the jungle style Marines because they are so iconic. If you put them in desert camo no one would recognize them. Agree it's a little odd, but I'm okay with it and get it. They actually tried using the Marine camo in Normandy as well, so I think it was intended to be universal.
There is now a 10% discount on the add-on models. I agree that you could probably find 20% aftermarket, but then youd be waiting forever for the miniatures and miss out on some of the freebies. Maybe it's not the sort of ridiculous bonanza people have become accustomed to with kickstarter, but I think overall you end up getting more sooner and the value comes out to being about the same as if you waited for aftermarket prices provided you invest a few hundred bucks. If you're looking to just get a few models and a whole bunch of free stuff, then I agree it's probably not the KS for you. Personally, I am sold and going in big-time even despite my initial annoyance ;)
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I have been playing and collecting Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare since their initial release a few years back. I also use many of their models for my SoTR gaming. I hope Battlefront is successful in keeping this going. :)
However, I'm not really feeling this kickstarter. Don't like the pledge level options. Don't like the fact that it appears that all of the items in this kickstarter are already produced (i.e. molds) and ready to be released. I've seen previews of some of these items on other websites for a while. The vehicles seem to be variants of existing items in the range with slight changes. Is this a kickstarter, or a cleverly marketed pre-order? :?
I have supported other kickstarters that were ripped apart for not having more pledge levels, more free items to unlock, more exclusives, an a la carte option, etc... Is there even one exclusive miniature? I went through all three pages of updates, and the main page and didn't find any (apologies in advance if I did miss something). Which means everything will be available once released. I think I'll wait.
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I have been playing and collecting Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare since their initial release a few years back. I also use many of their models for my SoTR gaming. I hope Battlefront is successful in keeping this going. :)
However, I'm not really feeling this kickstarter. Don't like the pledge level options. Don't like the fact that it appears that all of the items in this kickstarter are already produced (i.e. molds) and ready to be released. I've seen previews of some of these items on other websites for a while. The vehicles seem to be variants of existing items in the range with slight changes. Is this a kickstarter, or a cleverly marketed pre-order? :?
I have supported other kickstarters that were ripped apart for not having more pledge levels, more free items to unlock, more exclusives, an a la carte option, etc... Is there even one exclusive miniature? I went through all three pages of updates, and the main page and didn't find any (apologies in advance if I did miss something). Which means everything will be available once released. I think I'll wait.
I've backed but I agree that if it's all going to come out anyway, why pay postage to get it a few weeks early when I can probably get it cheaper once it's on general release. I am waiting to see whether or not I'll cancel my pledge.
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One of the things holding me back right now is that I already have collected large amounts of minis for all three factions. The models I am really interested in don't appear to be available separately. We'll see. There is time to change my mind, but I don't have a "warm and fuzzy" about this ks. :(
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I had started to buy the miniatures for Dust Tactics/Warfare.
This KS sounded like it would have been great to get forces together.But like others have said these will be discounted by re-sellers when they come out and when you add in the postage costs you may-be paying more for them.
Love the pictures they have been posting.Very atmospheric.
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I don't want to get into a whole 'what KS owes me' debate, but I do think that either the stretch goal amounts should be reduced or, bidders should get more on offer rather than just extra add-ons which cost you even more. A set of tokens or game aids, something. I'm not talking along the lines of Zombicide or Myth, just feel it's a bit lacking.
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I think the biggest problem with this KS now is that they underestimated interest. It feels like they really don't have enough models planned to sustain further upward movement. They've already said that they went beyond the scope of the initial range and are bringing in models from what was supposed to be the next campaign now. It's a shame, and poor planning on their part. I think it could've been a lot more successful if they had planned better. The good news is that hopefully this demonstrates to battlefront that there is strong interest in Dust, and they will keep the product line going and well supported for some time. Overall, I feel like I'm getting a good deal here, and I'm confident that by the end of the campaign the value will be better than what I could get at a discount retailer.
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There's now an option to buy only the add-ons. Great way to just get the mechs :-*
Some people have commented that they would like the option to purchase add-ons only, for Dust Warfare players (or just for those who love Dust models but don't play at all). So we have added a $1 pledge level, where you don't need to opt for any of the reward levels, and just choose whatever combination of add-ons you like.
Thanks.
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I mainly use Dust figures for the occasional hero.
So far I'm only really interested in James T Murphy and the abandoned well. I guess the Rommels are nice too, but I'll need mine prior to August and will probably just get an Artizan Rommel (or another general-type).
I already have the Tina und Hyane - it's a very nice model.
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Great deal from Dust kickstarter - for every pledge of 100$ or more - free copy of Operation Achilles!!! :-* :-*
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I have been looking at some older packs to make my ONI army out of for AT-43, but I'm very seriously considering jumping in on DUST today before the campaign closes.
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Not really interested in the whole DUST gener but I do love the Babylonian sculptures in the picture
(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww1/Alfrik_photos/KS5_zps3d134f29.jpg)
which are , well AWESOME!
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I have them in my pledge, as well as the abandoned well and I will post them as soon as I get them. They will come fully painted. ;) Made from resin.
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If someone is in this trainwreck (like me) please take note of this message from Paolo Parente:
OPERATION BROKEN TOOL PART ONE:
Please e-mail your invoices from your pledge manager to info@dustgame.com object: KS-BABYLON-ORDER+ your name.
The total lack of transparency from BC makes so that here at Dust Studio we don`t even know if the numbers of "wave 2" minis we are producing is correct or not... We need to collect the data at first. You should have received a pdf like the sample l attach here. Help us to help you
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202410724509159&set=gm.10152731165138918&type=1&theater
It appears that Battlefront still hasn't paid Dust Studio nor sent the total of minis they "sold" (and need to be produced by Dust Studios) on the Kickstarter.
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This whole project has been a huge mess.
The manufacturer should have been in charge of the project and the money instead of the distributor.
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When a Distributor do the logistical work is not so bad for a Producer. BF has expierence in worldwide distributen. But i speculate that BF used the Money from The Kickstarter to finance other projekts and they went not as planed. (just speculating)
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And Battlefront decided to strike back:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/posts/1123102?ref=backer_project_update
Some of you are aware of the recent allegations playing out on Facebook, and are eager for an official statement from Battlefront clarifying our position. For those of you who weren't aware of the unpleasantness, we apologise for having to bring it to your attention now.
The rumours and speculation on social media regarding the current state of the Dust Operation Babylon Kickstarter are becoming out of control. We would prefer to keep ugly disagreements out of the public eye, but we cannot remain silent any longer without giving the impression that we are hiding something. However, we will not be engaging in a trial by social media. Facebook is not the place to professionally resolve issues. Especially not when we are still optimistic that the situation can still easily be salvaged through negotiation in good faith.
There are two sides to every story, and a significant dispute remains regarding the parties’ obligations. Battlefront has repeatedly sought professional mediation with Dust Studio as a way to resolve this dispute fairly, which is the usual way to resolve contractual disagreements like this. We are still actively pursuing this.
We still expect a satisfactory outcome, but it will come a lot sooner if Dust Studio stop trying to manipulate backers through social media, with a lot of inaccurate and incomplete statements, and instead sit down and resolve their problems in a professional manner. If you really do stand with Dust Studio, the best thing you can do is to encourage them to agree to neutral professional mediation.
-Battlefront Miniatures
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I wish the two of them could just get their sh*t together behind closed doors. The fans and consumer base for the game don't need to hear this. They just (we just) want our stuff to show up in a timely fashion.
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Ugly situation. Very glad I decided against backing this project. Best of luck for the unfortunate ones that did.
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The first delivery attempt for whatever is in my first shipment happened yesterday. Of course I can't be home during the weekdays so I'll have to wait until it arrives at the depot for me to go up and get it myself.
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The first delivery attempt for whatever is in my first shipment happened yesterday. Of course I can't be home during the weekdays so I'll have to wait until it arrives at the depot for me to go up and get it myself.
If it's the same shipment as mine it will be only the "Operation Achilles" box freebie. Plus a nice invoice with everything that's "Out of Stock" and will be sent on the fabled second shipment.
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I was tempted by those Babylon stuff, but then I opted to get some more Axis Wave 9 models missing from my collection, rule book, cards, tokens and just get the Babylon free models for over 150$ invested...
Glad that I did that, just before Christmas got my order and I only miss the bonus models and the Babylon big wall thing.
Hope that they will sort it out soon, but what an epic fail to give a second chance to this great game...
Don't know who's fault it is but Battlefront's way of running the KS is simply ridiculous... Will not buy nothing from them anymore. Lying to backers that they will get the books and cards in August was insane... :-[ :-[
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Just received this email from Dust Studios :'( :'(
Dear Babylon Kickstarter Backer,
We are heartbroken to send you this message: Battlefront refuses to pay the amount due for the so called “Wave 2” of the Babylon Kickstarter campaign and therefore Dust Studio cannot deliver the items to Battlefront for distribution.
After four weeks of negotiations we still have not received a purchase order or a payment, regardless of our final and generous discount offer on the debated freebies.
During these four weeks Dust Studio has been bullied and blackmailed instead, with
Battlefront demanding the impossible from us in order for them to fulfill their obligations! They have asked us to pay them for editing and graphic design work their staff did on our rulebook, demanding a fee of over US $100,000.00.
They have requested we buy back their Dust stock — the stock that was eventually paid for to the factoring bank precisely with the revenue from the Babylon Campaign KS!
Battlefront is holding your money hostage, attempting to force us into an unbearable position and capitulate.
Please accept our apologies but we cannot accept any further humiliation. Our brand has been dragged through the mud and our reputation seriously damaged. Enough is enough!
Dust Studio has manufactured all the units listed as “Wave 2” in good faith but cannot afford nor are we willing to pay for jobs that Battlefront was never hired for in the first place, or for stock of products that have been discounted on the market for the past six months. These issues have nothing to do with the Kickstarter!
Being in breach of both our distribution and the Kickstarter agreements, Battlefront has been notified that our business relationship is officially ended.
What happens next? Why are you receiving this letter? A follow-on offer of how to receive the products you ordered will be published Sunday, May 17. In the meantime we strongly suggest that you contact your credit card company and ask for a full refund.
Please accept our most sincere apologies. And thank you for your continued patience and support.
Dust Studio Team
NB: This letter will be published on our official Facebook page Sunday, May 10.
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I'm not paying again for what I already paid for.
Battlefront was already deep in debt towards Dust Studios for some previous orders they didn't pay yet they still let them handle the Kickstarter money.
This project was doomed from the start yet it was advertized as if the product was already been manufactured.
I blame both companies for the failure of this project.
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I've not received this e-mail yet.Should I be concerned about that?(in addition to being absolutely furious about the KS failing and losing my money!) >:(
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The end of ks is near....
at least for Tabletop/Boardgames.....
So many failures.....
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Kickstarter doesn't protect the backers from this kind of situations.
It is a flawed platform.
This sure taught me a lesson.
I'm buying my new minis once they're ready from now on.
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Well, I hope BF get a major kicking for this. I, like many I would imagine, thought the risk for this KS was minimal with companies like Dust Studios and Battlefront involved.
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Sad to see it end like this. I wanted to salvage some of their more historical acurate minis for Cthulhu and pulp games. Let's hope they'll somehow survive this desaster.
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I'm sincerely sorry for those of you that got hit by this.
Is DUST Tactics dead? I love the things I have for it, I have mostly painted large Allied and Axis forces, and a small amount of SSU.
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I've not received this e-mail yet.Should I be concerned about that?(in addition to being absolutely furious about the KS failing and losing my money!) >:(
Did you send your invoice to Dust Studios when this mess started? I gather they sent the email to everyone who did that (and only to those).
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And now BF sent this update:
For backers only
We absolutely and utterly refute the statements made by both William Yau and Paolo Parente in their letter to backers.
The wave two product has only just been completed and despite asking for the last four months what exactly has been made we have never had that information. They have simply refused to share any detailed information in trying to resolve the dispute.
We will send out a formal response to all backers early next week to not only refute this one sided propaganda but illustrate just how much these two men have chosen to leave out when claiming to be the victims in their own farce.
BF
All in all, I lost a lot of money and the only thing I have from that KS is a "Operation Achilles" box...that I don't need nor want - I only wanted single mechs and tanks for my SOTR games.
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At least it made battlefront come out of their hole.
Dust claims that BF hasn't sent them the money and BF claims that they are the victim...
Since Dust wants to dissolve their partnership, battlefront should issue refunds and be done with all of this.
The Dust offer won't be free stuff, that's for sure, so who in their right mind would pay twice for a single order?
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The end of ks is near....
at least for Tabletop/Boardgames.....
So many failures.....
Totally disagree that the end is near. The failures are noteworthy, so stay in people's minds, but the rate of success remains high (even if many hobby projects are late, if they deliver what was promised they are an arguable success).
I think crowd-funding will evolve, especially in governance of platforms, but ultimately it has been a democratising thing for the hobby, that has seen ideas come to fruition that otherwise would never have got off the ground. It has offered a solution to allow lines/ranges to grow more rapidly than would otherwise be feasible. It has de-risked the business model for manufacturers/publishers to a certain extent.
This is a high-profile failure for sure. And we have probably had the end the gold-rush era of hobby projects as a lot of hobbyists have acquired a lot of hobby 'stuff' through crowd-funding in recent years. I still think there will be big and small projects, I just think backers will increase their discernment which will affect how the crowd-funding sector of the hobby changes. Going forward I suspect we shall see a change in how projects are presented, and how far they are prepared to stretch with added-on goals.
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For myself, I'm glad I stayed away from this Kickstarter, and I never will do any Kickstarter/crowd-funding for any game.
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The end of ks is near....
at least for Tabletop/Boardgames.....
So many failures.....
I don't think so myself; I just hope it leads to a more rational approach, with less emphasis on stretch goals and freebies, and more focus on just ensuring the core goal is met. Basically all the stuff LeonMallett said... :D
For myself, I'm glad I stayed away from this Kickstarter, and I never will do any Kickstarter/crowd-funding for any game.
That's understandable, but the problem is that a lot of projects may never make it to market without Kickstarter. Certainly the one we just ran, for Burrows and Badgers, was only possible because people backed us. If everyone had decided to avoid crowdfunding and just wait for them to be released, they'd be waiting for ever. We couldn't have afforded the moulding costs without KS.
This Dust KS is just a big mess though... and the usual checks wouldn't necessarily have worked. I mean, sure, they started throwing stretches and freebies at it which is a warning sign, but both companies had established global miniatures businesses. I would have assumed they knew what they were doing.
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I have nothing against small producers, but I live on fixed income and just can't afford to take a chance on KS.
This month, my new eyeglasses were cheaper paying cash than using my stoopid insurance, but that also meant that the only hobby thing I got was my Mahdist Wars Sourcebook. Any KS failure, or delay, would wipe out a month or more of my hobby money, so personally I will not take the risk.
I do wish the smaller producers all the best with their projects. For a large company like Battlefront to have allowed this disaster is beyond shameful, and it means I won't be buying "Fulda Gap" from them later this year, either.
Back to looking at Micro-Armor, I suppose, for my Cold War gone Hot fantasies.
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There are so many problems all my friends decided neverto back again....
I personally still back some projects...
Personally i lost now 2000 € if i include avp
Delays are no problem for me but received 3ks out of 20
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I should have listened to my gut and avoided this one. I'm in for over $600 USD, and have received less than 1/3 of the stuff I was supposed to. Both Dust Studios and Battlefront are culpable in this, and the terrible thing here is that the it's the customers and fans who are very literally paying for it.
If Dust and Paolo think people are going to send them MORE money to get the stuff they already paid for I think they're f**king dreaming. We already paid, the product has been made (it's available in my local shop...I've seen it!). I don't care who tries to spin it any which way, all the KS backers have been the victims of fraud. I simply want my money back now, because who the hell am I going to play the game with after this cluster-f**k?!
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And so it begins......
Miniature Market is having a fire sale/clearance sale on all of their Dust items:
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/dust-tactics.html (http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/dust-tactics.html)
although the only Bablylon item listed as in stock is the Desert Jagdluther
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And this after Battlefront sent a new update...saying it's all Dust Studio fault o_o The blame-shifting continues and the backers still haven't seen most of their orders :-X
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Something that really makes me upset is that, if I could get what I paid for all would be forgiven. The sad reality is that the likelihood of that scenario ever happening is near zero. If the backers don't get what they paid for, I don't feel bad saying that I hope both companies drown under huge pile of shit they're shovelling. If they were professional at all they'd get their poop in a pile, take care of the backers and then sort the rest out behind closed doors.
Whether Dust is a good game or not, dragging people who supported you like all the backers have is unacceptable and they should feel the repercussions of it by losing their reputations and their businesses.
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Based on the last BF update, a full refund is not in the possibilities since Kickstarter already took their fee out of the pledged money.
Of course, it's no reason to penalize the backers who are still empty handed.
After Miniature Market, I'm pretty sure other stores will follow and drop Dust as well.
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If the backers don't get what they paid for, I don't feel bad saying that I hope both companies drown under huge pile of shit they're shovelling. If they were professional at all they'd get their poop in a pile, take care of the backers and then sort the rest out behind closed doors.
x2
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And today, a new email from Dust Studio. I think it can be considered good news o_o
Dear Backer,
We received an email from Battlefront yesterday: they said they would check the production list and issue a purchase order Monday.
Dust Studio will provide Battlefront with a packing list and an invoice by next week. The items are ready and will be shipped to you within one week upon reception of the payment and shipping instructions.
Dust Studio will give Battlefront one week from the invoice date to make the full payment.
We are confident that we are really near to end this struggle at this time and cannot wait to finally deliver the goods to you, our deserving backers.
You should expect the next update as soon as we receive the full payment - we will make sure to keep you informed with the latest developments on a regular basis.
Thank you again for your patience and support.
Sincerely,
Dust Studio Team
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Another twist!
This Kickstarter campaign has more cliffhangers than a 40's serials.
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Here's hoping to a happy conclusion...for the backers! :D
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Another twist!
This Kickstarter campaign has more cliffhangers than a 40's serials.
Yes! The updates should come in sepia with a tinny voiced announcer!
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New update from Battlefront ;)
The owner of Dust Studio, William Yau, and the owners of Battlefront have reached an agreement to pay for the ‘Wave 2’ products next week. Shipment will take place shortly after that - the factory just need a few days to organise the logistics of packing the product and getting it on to a ship. We’ll update you with more shipping information once we have it.
There are going to be minor shortfalls for some products - both from ‘Wave 1’ and ‘Wave 2’, owing mostly to problems with completing the pledge manager process for some orders. So we have also both agreed to a third ‘resupply’ order, so there will be enough stock to fill any remaining gaps and make sure no backer is left short.
So I guess the backers will get their minis...somewhere in the future (someone on FB mentioned September).
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I'll believe it when they're in my possession.
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And the debt has been paid :o
As planned, payment has been made to Dust Studio for the 'Wave 2' shipment first thing this morning. This shipment will be boxed up and handed over to our shipper as quickly as the Dust factory can manage. This will be on the water for an estimated five weeks - it can vary a little due to weather and Customs at the other end, but we will then ship out all orders as soon as the stock arrives at our warehouses.
The Wave 2 shipment represents between 85%-90% of all remaining paid-for stock owed. We have agreed with William Yau to create a list for a Wave 3, the remaining needs that came in after the pledge manager closed, and will be agreeing that order and paying for it shortly afterwards. William has confirmed that it will take them roughly 35 days to make this and then we will ship it out to the regional offices just like Wave 2.
To avoid any doubt, we have attached the payment advice to show that the $98,163.50 was sent this morning.
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Well, didn't Paolo claimed that everything was ready at the factory and that they've only needed the money to release the products?
So, if it's true, things should be moving rather quickly...
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Well, didn't Paolo claimed that everything was ready at the factory and that they've only needed the money to release the products?
So, if it's true, things should be moving rather quickly...
Hear, hear. I don't even want to play the game, I just want the walkers and tanks that I paid for (almost £250), for my SOTR games.
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I'm still confused about what we're getting. On the one hand, we were told we're getting our stuff.Now, on the forums people are saying that we're not getting the add-ons that we were promised. As far as I'm concerned, these things weren't 'free', they were an incentive for us to spend more. There still isn't a clear explanation of whether or not we're getting everything on our invoices. If anyone can shed authentic light on this confusion, I'd dearly like to know. ???
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I'm still confused about what we're getting. On the one hand, we were told we're getting our stuff.Now, on the forums people are saying that we're not getting the add-ons that we were promised. As far as I'm concerned, these things weren't 'free', they were an incentive for us to spend more. There still isn't a clear explanation of whether or not we're getting everything on our invoices. If anyone can shed authentic light on this confusion, I'd dearly like to know. ???
Don't we all? People pledge to get more stuff for the money.
The free heroes were announced on the launched of the campaign, so I'm pretty sure that both companies agreed on who would pay for those. Then again, everything went so well, so we can expect anything from them.
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I made the mistake on the Dust FB page of commenting on the resolution of the 'Free stuff' issue. Wish I hadn't. Very rude, unpleasant reception. You simply cannot have a discussion about it without being shouted down told you're wrong etc. Can't be bothered with it. Should've know better. >:(
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After two weeks, you'd think that they would have an update for the backers. At this point even a "We're have set up a bunch of tables to start packing your orders" kind of update would be nice.
I guess, nothing is moving again.
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I had seen a post on FB about the items being packaged up and ready to ship out.Showed a few photo's too.
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I had seen a post on FB about the items being packaged up and ready to ship out.Showed a few photo's too.
Yeah, Paolo Parent posted photos of some containers being filled up at their factory in China. Now they need to be shipped to Battlefront :(
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Man, this went so wrong in a very bad manner... I am so sorry for taking part in this KS.
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It would be nice of them if they could post any update on the actual campaign page for every backers to see instead of on Facebook.
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It would be nice of them if they could post any update on the actual campaign page for every backers to see instead of on Facebook.
Absolutely. I see another poor sod is getting a hammering on FB for daring to ask the 'wrong' questions. :-[
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It would be nice of them if they could post any update on the actual campaign page for every backers to see instead of on Facebook.
Unfortunatel the KS page is run by Battlefront, and the Facebook one is by Paolo Parente, so you don't get the information on both sites at the same time (or sometimes you don't get any information anywhere, or just desinformation on one, insults in the other...it's complicated) :?
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Bleh...I'm still missing about 2/3 of my stuff ($400 US-ish). I really wish I had skipped this one. So many times over I have wished such.
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I really wish I had skipped this one. So many times over I have wished such.
So do I.
Nothing seems to be moving once again. Looks like ever since they made payment, Battlefront have left this sinking ship.
When Dust Studio asked for our email addresses to "help us get our pledges", you'd think that they would now use them to keep us informed of what's going instead of relying on Facebook.
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This is getting ridiculous - so called Wave 2 is sailing to BF/USA, god knows what's inside and when it will reach Europe after. They are talking for Wave 3 but when and what... And meanwhile Dust are selling on pre-order new models and models we were supposed to get last year at this time... Those models we paid in advance to get fast. Needles to say, they will not see a penny from me until I get all I have paid for!
Shame on both companies - Battlefraud and Dust cheaters!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Anyone going to Gencon can complain in person. Paolo is going to be in the CMON booth:
http://cmon.com/paolo-parente-and-dust-studio-at-cmon-booth-for-gen-con-indy-2015/ (http://cmon.com/paolo-parente-and-dust-studio-at-cmon-booth-for-gen-con-indy-2015/)
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I'm wondering if they'll announce that CMON will become their new (third) distributor or if he's just tagging along.
Since some stuff is on the boat, I guess he doesn't feel any shame in parading around to push his new line, the one the backers paid for and are still waiting for after a year.
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The "backers" gave money to get the product made, period.
It's not a pre-order system. Stop thinking it is.
Getting stuff from the KS is a bonus, not the point.
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The "backers" gave money to get the product made, period.
It's not a pre-order system. Stop thinking it is.
Getting stuff from the KS is a bonus, not the point.
Actually Kickstarter has slowly been changing their rules and policies to acknowledge that they really are effectively a pre-order service at this point. And government commercial regulation is looking at them this way more and more. Example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2015/06/11/the-ftcs-first-crowdfunding-enforcement-is-over-a-failed-board-game-on-kickstarter/
The idea of crowd-sourced investment is a good one, but in practice this is simply not what KS is anymore.
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The idea of crowd-sourced investment is a good one, but in practice this is simply not what KS is anymore.
I did not pledged for this KS, but I totally agree, at least for games... KS is now a pre-order system.
It has been mis-used this way a lot of times, most of them prices were not even so cheap, just barely under market price.
The fault is not merely of KS but ours, we (all gamers) should avoid to pledge to this "pre-order false funding", that's simple.
Crowfunding is a good idea.
Ciao
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"...I totally agree, at least for games... KS is now a pre-order system.
It has been mis-used this way a lot of times, most of them prices were not even so cheap, just barely under market price..."
I do not mean to derail the subject but... Allow me to disagree. Not for the prices but for the pre-order system. 8) We for example have the funds to create half sprue plastics. We do not want that; we want to continue in manufacturing full sprues instead. That is not a preorder. Without crowdfunding we will genuinely have to wait many many years before collecting the additional funds should we still want to keep the product at the highest level. Not to mention Kickstarter occupies some of the best sculptors, meaning while we have had both the will and funds to pay upfront in order to put product in the market for retail, we had to wait for sculptors over a year because they had been booked for kickstarter projects that would deliver in a year or something! :` Not to mention the ridiculously overdue projects that have gone even double that time... ???
For the prices you mentioned I'll agree, there are projects selling e.g. goblins at a higher cost of what we are selling them at retail! And we are talking about top of the line quality and detail, so not even that can be justified! o_o
As for using funds to pay existing debt... that's a whole new scenario that had never even crossed our simple designed minds! lol
The fault is not merely of KS but ours, we (all gamers) should avoid to pledge to this "pre-order false funding", that's simple.
Crowdfunding is a good idea.
I'll agree. :D Hopefully as years go by -and this is not an indirect hit to anyone, merely speaking my mind-, projects that have failed in the past will stop receiving support from backers. It's very wrong when honest creators -a pc game project that recently failed comes to mind- do not receive backing because the same funds have gone (again) to other creators that have proved incapable, not to mention those who have not even completed their projects yet keep on launching more and more... :-I
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The "backers" gave money to get the product made, period.
It's not a pre-order system. Stop thinking it is.
Getting stuff from the KS is a bonus, not the point.
Backers pledge to get something out of it, not just get the product made.
May it be exclusive items or more stuff for their buck, but a KS campaign without incentive is doomed to fail.
In the case of this campaign, it was just a big pre-order service. It was advertised as a way to release more models faster than by going the usual way and it turned out to be a huge mess.
Both are well established companies that didn't need to go to crowdfunding to release their new models, but they chose to simply to get the money faster.
Instead of focusing on producing the models, they took care of an old debt that had nothing to do with the backers.
Both are now in dispute as to who will pay for the not so free items promised to the backers.
Don't want to give more stuff in your campaign, fine, but don't advertise that you will and change your mind halfway through.
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Whilst many are still waiting on their KS stuff, myself included, I notice that Dust are slowly trickling out new releases of said KS stuff. I can live with that, after all there's bills to pay etc, but the prices of the 'new' walkers etc are 50% higher than they were before. I daren't even comment on the Dust FB page as I'm pretty sure I'd get lambasted and banned for being a 'troll'. I really loved Dust and I've still got a load of it but it's really starting to bug me how much we seem to be getting shafted by Dust Studios. The 'freebie' stuff still hasn't been resolved and now you're paying top whack prices. One of the reasons I was drawn to Dust by the reasonable pricing of the products. Now I'm just not sure I can maintain the love. :(
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Agreed, its a messy situation that no one seems to be taking any real gains to resolve.
It's to bad,
Brian
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Yeah I once again got rather upset as, over the weekend, I saw several of the items owed me sitting on the shelves at one of my local game shops. WTF?!
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The KS stuff is starting to pop up online at various stores.
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Was in Essen and talked to the guy who's in charge for Europe in BF. He told me that the ship will be in UK 19.10 and things in it will be send early November. Didn't specify what's in it. Said that they are negotiating final deal with DS and he was positive that backers will get all items as per KS deals including SG.
One day...
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Was in Essen and talked to the guy who's in charge for Europe in BF. He told me that the ship will be in UK 19.10 and things in it will be send early November. Didn't specify what's in it. Said that they are negotiating final deal with DS and he was positive that backers will get all items as per KS deals including SG.
One day...
Here's hoping. ::)
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That kind of information would be f-ing great to actually share with the backers. It's been WEEKS since we got any kind of communication from either side. They already have our money though, so why worry about all those pissed off people right?
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That kind of information would be f-ing great to actually share with the backers. It's been WEEKS since we got any kind of communication from either side. They already have our money though, so why worry about all those pissed off people right?
Got an e-mail from Dust studios offering me a 'Great' deal to get the pit model for 'free' if I bought one of the new starter sets containing figs that I've already paid for and am still waiting on. Oh, and it has a new figure that you can only get as part of the starter set.;) Not really sure if Dust have got the Backers' interests at heart. >:(
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I got that 'offer' too and promptly wrote them back that they should be ashamed of themselves for thinking that in anyway was appropriate. I haven't heard from them since.
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New "update". Still don't know if I'm going to receive anything...
The Wave 2 stocks have arrived in our UK warehouse and we are about to start filling the UK, European and the ROW (Rest Of World) orders.
As we said in our previous update to keep things fair we will be shipping all Wave 3 stocks direct to the UK to fulfill your orders first, and then on to the USA.
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Wave 3...
Wave 2 was barely delivered and most of those orders were far from being complete so I don't think anyone has any big expectations for a 3rd wave at this point.
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This is all the stuff I'm still waiting for:
D309 Königslothar *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D420 Sergei Shtemenko *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D421 Aleksandr Vasilevsky *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D511 Devastator *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D601 Sisters of Demolition *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D912A Babylon Axis Decal Sheet *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D912B Babylon SSU Decal Sheet *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D912C Babylon Allied Decal Sheet *** OUT OF STOCK ***
D912C Babylon Allied Decal Sheet *** OUT OF STOCK ***
DKS304 Sturmleopold (aka Jagdleopold) Arms *** OUT OF STOCK ***
DKS307 Axis Free Upgrade Pack (added) *** OUT OF STOCK ***
Both Dust Studios and Battlefront can't give me a straight answer to a simple question - what will I get in Wave 2 and what will I get in Wave 3?
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The update told us what we already knew.
Still no new concrete information about the development of this big mess. They already said that EU/RoW would get Wave 3 first, but will there even be a wave 3? If so, when?
Have they officially reached an agreement or are they both still dreaming about a miraculous solution?
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I'm still waiting on two of my three armies, the freebies that go with them, the decals and dice for all three of the armies. Yeah, I don't have dice to for the game...so I can't play even if I wanted to.
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And I just received an email from Battlefront saying my order was dispatched - it's everything I was missing from my original KS order :o
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A small glimmer of hope for others then. I'll not be holding my breath however...but I'm glad to hear someone might get all of their stuff. :)
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I also got message that Babylon pillars are sent. But that's all...
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I guess I was lucky since I didn't choose battlegroups but just single miniatures. The only thing missing from my order is one of the "infamous" freebies - a German battleforce.
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That probably puts you in a very small group then. Most folks were going in for one or more forces. I went for all three, but have only received my German one and Rolf, along with the add-ons like the zombies and strong point. I did receive the rulebook, cards and templates...going on a year ago now IIRC. Recently I received the pillars and wells. I'm still waiting on my US and Russian stuff, as well as my dice. Almost two years later and I have no dice to use to play with.
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And the stuff from Wave 2 is real:
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/Wave2_zpsntkdb4yg.jpg)
If anyone want the tokens, please let me know, I don't need them (I don't play Dust anymore).
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Wow nice to see someone actually got something other than the pillars. Congratulations.
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Wow nice to see someone actually got something other than the pillars. Congratulations.
It seems to be missing the decals and the well, but I'll have to check when I get home. It was my brother who sent me picture, I'm still at work.
If there are any dices included (I don't know if I was supposed to get them - they weren't in the invoice, but the tokens also weren't and they sent them) I'll send them to you ;)
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Great news. I am waiting for those pillars two weeks already... o_o
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Great news. I am waiting for those pillars two weeks already... o_o
Didn't you receive a tracking number? Battlefront sent me an email (Battlefront Orders - customerservice@battlefront.co.nz) and then I received another from "Flames of War" (Your order has been dispatched - yourorder@dpd.co.uk) with a tracking number. Maybe they used a different carrier in Austria?
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Still waiting on my stuff. got sent an invoice which is missing loads off it.Glad I kept a copy of the original. Your stuff looks lovely, is it Premium stuff or just Primed?
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Still waiting on my stuff. got sent an invoice which is missing loads off it.Glad I kept a copy of the original. Your stuff looks lovely, is it Premium stuff or just Primed?
Just primed, but they used the boxes of the premium models. No dice, but the decals were there. Also that sorry excuse of a well lol
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No tracking number for me... Britsh mail is the cheapest way.
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Just seen this thread.
My bro went into this KS for the studio painted armies etc..$900 anyway..Is it likely he will ever see his stuff?
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Some of it. Maybe. I'm missing about 2/3 of my $600 pledge, so it's hard to say. I'm actually not aware of anyone who has fully received their stuff, but there might be.
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I am glad to see some of this has shipped.
I was really into DUST at the time, almost went in really heavily...
I ended up just getting the book. No idea if I was meant to get any other bits if I pledged for just the book, though.
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Well, after more than 3 weeks wait my wave 2 came today. Babylonian pillar... That's all. Made from some kind of clay - damn heavy model. And "fully prepainted" - some gray over the black base. Don't deserve even the shity well apparently...
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I like the look of the pillars, but they're fragile as hell. I had one sitting on the counter and my friend picked it up before I could say anything...bottom half didn't go along with the top (naturally) and shattered a bunch more little pieces off of it. I'm not sure why they were cast in such a heavy material.
The wells are decent looking, but essentially pointless pieces of terrain.
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I like the look of the pillars, but they're fragile as hell. I had one sitting on the counter and my friend picked it up before I could say anything...bottom half didn't go along with the top (naturally) and shattered a bunch more little pieces off of it. I'm not sure why they were cast in such a heavy material.
The wells are decent looking, but essentially pointless pieces of terrain.
That was possibly the chipest way to produce them. And I didn't get well...
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Sounds like a piece of tourist tat that they've picked up in bulk. Not much call for souvenirs in Babylon at the moment.
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Excellent news!
Dear backers,
Christmas is nearly upon us and it is the season to share good tidings.
We are very pleased to be able to tell you that we have reached complete agreement on all points between our two companies.
The Kickstarter product will be produced and shipped to you fully (yes including all free incentives from both parties). The final wave of items will be started straight away and as soon as they are finished we will ship them out to you. This is a complex order so it will take 120 days to produce. Once received into our UK warehouse all remaining products will be sent from there to all outstanding backers.
We have also agreed terms on dissolving our business partnership and both parties plan to look to their respective futures.
Thank you all for your patience.
William Yau – CEO DUST Studio
John-Paul Brisigotti – CEO Battlefront
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Will believe when I got all models in my hands.
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You and I both.
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FYI
My brother, who backed at the topish tier, recently received his 3 pro painted armies & is extremely happy n surprised to get them as he thought the whole thing was dead...so things are hopefully looking up for you guys!
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Just got an announcement from Miniature Market that they have a bunch of this stuff in stock...here's a silly question, why in the hell did they go 1:48? I was going to pick up some stuff for alternate use, but the entire line is useless now. That's brave and rather stupid considering how much of the old stuff was vaguely 1:56/28-32mm.
Are they just using the 1:48 bit to attract model kits to the game, or did they actually supersize the entire line? Seems like an incredibly crass and stupid decision to me.
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/dust-tactics/dt-exclusive.html?mc_cid=890c101bac&mc_eid=fc62d118c5&p=3&utm_campaign=890c101bac-Dust_Tactics_Exclusive_Jan_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Miniature+Market+-+Full+List&utm_term=0_be5b9f7f95-890c101bac-25877929
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Dust Studios has always referred to their models as either 1:48 or 1:35. The gaming models haven't changed.
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Okay, that's what I'd hoped...seemed quite silly to up and change scale. And from what I own, they're definitely not 1:48.
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Yes, I mix them with my 32mm stuff and they're close enough, being either the same size or a little taller. But yes, they've always claimed they were 1:48.
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I have no idea what minis you guys have, but my minis would be about 35mm to 37mm tall if I would straighten them up...
(but I only have some de-Dustified US Marines in my mini collection) scaling them up would get us...
.035*48=1.68
.037*48=1.776
... roughly 1.75 (average height of US citicens in the 30s was around 1.73, in the 50s 1.77 source= Our world in Data (http://ourworldindata.org/data/food-agriculture/human-height/))
wheras 1:56 would give us 2 meter Supermarines:
.035*56=1.96
.037*56=2.072
Sorry to contradict you guys, but that looks pretty 1:48ish to me ;)
EDIT: I measured from foot to top, not including the base
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The whole discussion came up years ago when Dust launched. It might have been here or somewhere else like Dakka, but I can't find the thread. The thrust of the argument came down more to proportions then height. Somewhere floating around are scale pics of dust infantry next to some Tamiya 1/48 infantry. While they were pretty close in height, the heroic proportions of the Dust figures (thicker bodies, bigger heads, bigger weapons) made them look bigger than they actually were. Essentially the proportions of a 1/35 figure squished down to 1/48 scale height.
Long story short, the new Dust figures match the existing line from what I've got.
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It was nice to see Dust models in MM for 5 to 8$ on sale while we are still waiting for them...And we payed a lot more for them and almost 2 years ago... Great job Dust studios and Battlefront!
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All I have are four letter words to direct at Dust Studio and Battlefront. It doesn't do any good though. They're never going to see another dime from me or anyone I can tell about this story EVER again.
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All I have are four letter words to direct at Dust Studio and Battlefront. It doesn't do any good though. They're never going to see another dime from me or anyone I can tell about this story EVER again.
I am with you.
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If anyone wants to sell on the Babylonian statue or the architectural bits for a sensible that is cheap price please do PM me
I am interested in using for a non Dust demo game
Thanks
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It seems we are (finally!) going to get the things missing from the KS!
We have finally been able to pick up the last of the Babylon Kickstarter stock from Dust Studios, including all the free upgrade items supplied by them. The process of releasing the shipment for collection took longer than we anticipated – it was expected to be ready for collection by our shipping agents on 20th of May 2016. But they have taken delivery now.
The shipment will be travelling by sea for the next few weeks, and is scheduled to dock in the UK on the 21st September 2016. It will take a few days to be processed by Customs, before being delivered to our warehouse in Nottingham. There we will check and sort all the stock to prepare for shipping the remaining items to each backer. Orders for ALL backers will be shipped direct to you from the UK office. This will eliminate the need for a further 3-week sea voyage for backers in the USA.
Don't panic if your address has changed – we will be confirming everyone's shipping address before sending anything.
We will keep you up to date on the progress of this last shipment as it happens.
Thank you for your patience
-The Battlefront Miniatures team
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At this point I cant even remember what they owe me it's been so long! lol
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New update:
http://The last wave will ship soon - Address Changes
Posted by Dust Studio (Creator)
The ship carrying the last wave of Operation Babylon Kickstarter rewards has docked and we will begin shipping your final rewards out to you soon.
With the delays, some people’s addresses will have changed. Many of you have already contacted us about this, but with all the various contact methods we want to make absolutely sure no changes have accidentally been missed. The simplest way to do this is to ensure that all address changes are directed to one place, where we can carefully check each one.
If your address has changed (or if for any reason you aren’t 100% sure we have your correct current address and would like to confirm it) please email your current shipping address now to:
dustaddresschange@battlefront.co.nz
You can help us by using the same email which you originally used to back the Kickstarter.
So I guess I'll finally receive my German bonus force that I don't need nor want anymore, lol.
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Paint their faces green and make them soldiers from the Frankenstein program.
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Well, I am still not sure that we will get what we paid for...
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And today...after what? 2 years, 3?...I've received the final part of my reward. Figures that I don't need, dice for a game I don't play anymore and substitute arms for a mech I don't own anymore, lol. - everything on Ebay soon
The only thing worthwhile were some decals, those I'll keep.
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So consider yourself lucky.
I just got one box - Sisters of Demolition. Not even one other SG...
I have wrote to BF but I strongly doubt that I will have a fast resolution of my problem.
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I received two boxes from them a week ago, with a bunch of stuff in it. Most of it I don't think I ordered, and I had multiples of three each of certain characters. I think they just chucked enough stuff in there to make up the amount they owed me.
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I finally received everything I was missing plus some extras minis...
Although many have turned their back on DUST and or Battlefront - I must confess I really like the minis and walkers... bought even the pledge of a fellow gamer :)
Now I still have to finde some decent rules, that are pulpy enough to accommodate the Weird War aspects, yet not silly enough to reduce the game to "pew, pew, I shot you..." Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.
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...
Now I still have to finde some decent rules, that are pulpy enough to accommodate the Weird War aspects, yet not silly enough to reduce the game to "pew, pew, I shot you..." Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.
Received my stuff also, and I totally agree, great minis!
Rules - Hmm, maybe try my Victory Decision: Gear Krieg book?
(http://www.adpublishing.de/assets/images/Gear_Krieg_Cover_300.jpg)
http://www.adpublishing.de/html/gear_krieg_vide.html
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While I am familiar with Gear Krieg and really liked the look and design - although I never managed to develop any sympathy for DP9 rules - I totally missed out on Gear Krieg meets Victory Decision...
Thank you. I will certainly look into this ruleset.
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Got my SG models. Don't like only Angela - skinny and twisted.
So many other backers will have to wait for Wave 4 to come from Hong Kong...