Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Durutti on May 24, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
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We bit the bullet last night, and had a crack at the CofC Rules.
They do seem to play quite well, although we had a few issues.
So for clarity sake, here are a few questions, if any of the rules aficionados can help answer them please do :D
1) Force composition - I could not get my head around the support options at all, and had to fudge it, please explain it to me, in words that make sense, as the ones in the rules make no sense to me!!!
2) Patrol markers - it turned into a game of shuffle the circles, with one side edging around avoiding the other, quite frankly it got rather boring. Are these markers meant to just be moved a certain way, or is this shuffle all pr of the fun?
3) Can a section leader give orders to a Junior leader? We had an issue with an artillery observer, down as a junior officer, he could not be activated until a 3 was rolled, the players could not figure out why their section leader could not order an activation, and I could not find anything in the rules to say he could.
Thats just a few for starters.
The rules are a bit ambiguous and take a read, another read, re-read them again, watch the youtube videos, and then read them again, then have a go, reading all the time as you play!!!! :o It may have just been me, but I found them quite difficult to read, and understand straight away.
Full review will be slapped on the blog, once we have dissected the rules completely.
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Hi Durutti
1) Do you mean how to work the points. so you know how many points you have to pick you support options
2) Patrol markers, They are more tactical than you think and can make the difference to winning or losing.
3).Can a section leader give orders to a Junior leader, yes (Leaders can give three orders)
artillery observer are activation on a 1 or leader could use one of his order to artillery observer activation.
I hope to put a display game on soon and will work through the steps of the game to give you hopefully a clear picture.
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1) Force composition - I could not get my head around the support options at all, and had to fudge it, please explain it to me, in words that make sense, as the ones in the rules make no sense to me!!!
Your force has a pts rating (e.g. +2)
Your enemy has a pts rating (eg -2)
The lower rated player gets the difference in points - so in my example the enemy would get 4pts of support
The scenario may give the each players some support options as well.
You then have a number of support points to be spent - you can then pick things from the various lists. e.g. if you have 4pts you can take 4 choices from list 1, or 1 choice from list 4.
2) Patrol markers - it turned into a game of shuffle the circles, with one side edging around avoiding the other, quite frankly it got rather boring. Are these markers meant to just be moved a certain way, or is this shuffle all pr of the fun?
We haven't had this issue. The patrol markers move quite quickly (12"), but must remain within 12" of at least 1 friendly one. Also once within 12" of 1 enemy marker, then both are locked in place and can't move.
There is usually a desire to get your markers forward to claim territory or to lock enemy ones. Once you have locked one enemy one, it does fix a point of his line.
We have found the patrol phase great - it really changes the 'line them up' dynamic
Some of the early battle reports and videos on the TFL blog illustrate the patrol phase very well.
3) Can a section leader give orders to a Junior leader? We had an issue with an artillery observer, down as a junior officer, he could not be activated until a 3 was rolled, the players could not figure out why their section leader could not order an activation, and I could not find anything in the rules to say he could.
Remember you can add dice together - so a 1+2 can be used to make a 3.
I think that some of these restrictions are deliberate - it is meant to be easier to activate your sections than anything else. This is to reflect friction.
I had seen a bunch of the videos first, so didn't find the rules that hard work at all - but they do cover a lot of stuff though, and some parts are a bit confusing. But the end result is a great game - understanding when to deploy and when to keep troops in reserve is very important. New players tend to deploy units early, but then it can be really limited in its movement. Whereas a unit held off board, can be deployed to any jump off point.
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We made a shedload of mistakes, but that is the way to learn lol
Where does it explain about the pts options for support?
still not found that bit yet!!! :o
They are a very good set of rules, and I will certainly be giving them another try out, but will play a few solo games, so I have a much better understanding of how they play.
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Support options
Appendix B, first page (p80 in the pdf)
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aha!!!
Did not bother looking in there, as I thought it was just about the WW2 lists >:(
Now, do both sides start with any chain of command dice, or do you have to build up the points with the dice rolls?
It took forever to accumulate enough points to get a single dice, we played for only two turns, and getting your head around that was a bit weird!! We had one turn end by rolling 3 6s, and the other one when someone played a chain of command dice.
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Agree that it's a good idea to watch the videos. Hang in there, they are worth the little bit of effort needed to get your head around some of the new concepts
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You don't start with CoC dice unless the scenario states. At least one does that.
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Some games it takes for ever to get a CoC dice, other times you end up with several and wonder what to use them for.
The number of turns isn't usually too important ( unlike most other games ) there are a few reasons to want to end a turn, forcing a rout, capturing a jump off point, etc
It's really the number of phases that are when you are doing things. And some phases can be very quick, depending on your dice rolls and tactical dispositions, and others more protracted.
I'm actually thinking about a solo game of CoC this evening
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The sorry tale
http://nigelh-viewfromtheduckpond.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/oh-nigel-what-cnt-or-how-not-to-play.html
lol
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(grin)
Nice looking game though
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Nigel,
Sound like it was a CoC-up!!
Best you don't judge the game on that outing ;)
For all that your did rip into some CoC Espana action and the questions seem more related to how CoC worked, not anything about the SCW supplement. This is reasonable as it's all built on the CoC engine.
Persevere, you won't be disappointed. Check out the Lardies CoC forum for further explanations and questions.
Cheers
Happy W
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Even with the mess up, they still played well, so we will most definitely be giving them a few more games.
Mind you, I hope that Pz1 does not come out again, it mauled two Militia sections, twin MGs, nasty old business lol
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A nice line in self-depreciation in that report ;D
The twin MG tankettes can be terrors on the early war battlefield, and I'm sure are only more effective in Spain a few years earlier - that it until someone turns up with a real tank!
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Most amusing Nigel, although you probably thought not at the time :)
May have been a good reflection of the chaotic nature of the early period perhaps.
Get the T26 on, advantage goes the other way then though >:D
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Great read on the blog, consider yourself followed.
Looks like your questions have been answered and it seems like your first game went pretty much like ours with lots of questions and a realisation that you maybe did not follow the rules.
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lol
Glad to hear that mate, after all it was your game reports, and campaign that got me back on track with my SCW stuff. :D
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In a show of solidarity with all rule-duffers wherever they may be... I got it wrong at first too. ::)
With no hint of bias or anything like that though, they are great rules and well worth persevering with. ;)
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I'd just add that Chain of Command are not a traditional set of "Move-Shoot-Morale" rules, they do involved some original and new concepts which do take a bit of getting your head around. I hope that investing a bit of time to understand them will be repaid with some great games.
If I can be any help don't hesitate to contact me.
Rich
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Glad to hear that mate, after all it was your game reports, and campaign that got me back on track with my SCW stuff. :D
Good to know my whitterings have the desired effect.