Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: fourcolorfigs on June 09, 2014, 02:32:30 PM
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Two years ago I ran a successful KS to release Goalsystem Delves. Delves is a gorgeous little book that combines RPG and skirmish mechanics, and does so rather nicely, I think.
Now I want to take what I learned from that, and from doing Blasters & Bulkheads 2nd ed. and make Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish.
It would be a pure skirmish game, with scenarios, campaign rules, and the ability for your warband to grow and change over time. I will not be kick-starting this. I'm working on the rules right now, basically re-skinning B&B 2nd and adding elements I love from Delves in to make the sort of skirmish game I envision folks will want to play.
Let me know what you think it ought to have in there. I am definitely cribbing the campaign and Party Wealth rules from Delves, and B&B 2nd's Background will likely become D&D style "Classes", but there will be plenty of stuff for folks to tweak and add.
I am toning down Fate and characters will start play with less vitality, so it should be more lethal. I'll include plenty of classic fantasy races and monsters too. Some of that can ported over from Delves, but will also need tweaked for skirmish play.
What I do want is an old school D&D feel to the art, so I am seeking such artists who can work cheaply, or on spec. I'll need art for races, fight scenes, and items.
Thanks for reading and contributing!
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Sounds great. I downloaded delves as soon as it was available. It's an awesome book but was more RPG then I was looking for. Hopefully this turns out more like the chaos series.
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Sounds great. I downloaded delves as soon as it was available. It's an awesome book but was more RPG then I was looking for. Hopefully this turns out more like the chaos series.
Thanks! Yes, this is the idea, with some refinements based on many games played.
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So I assume you are going to stick to your normal style of having weak monsters/henchmen act as units? If so what are the chances of possibly having some rules for warmachines like bolt throwers and catapults?
I've been looking for a fantasy game that can handle 1-3 characters,a few units, and a monster/ warmachine for awhile.
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Really quick question - does anyone know if I can buy a physical copy of GoalSystem Delves in the UK?
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Really quick question - does anyone know if I can buy a physical copy of GoalSystem Delves in the UK?
I would be glad if there are any EU traders that sell GSD. I have PMed Scott yesterday about it, I will post his reply once he responds.
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There are no UK stockists of Delves that I know of. Noble Knight games here in the USA will ship internationally. You can try them, as they have Delves.
http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137428150_A_ManufacturerID_E_2145086760_A_CategoryID_E_16
It's slightly discounted as well!
I would gladly sell a batch to a UK stockist if one approached me.
Thanks!
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So I assume you are going to stick to your normal style of having weak monsters/henchmen act as units? If so what are the chances of possibly having some rules for warmachines like bolt throwers and catapults?
I've been looking for a fantasy game that can handle 1-3 characters,a few units, and a monster/ warmachine for awhile.
Yes, Henchmen rules will be in play. I think you can build warmachines using the vehicle rules. I will leave those in place but tweak them for fantasy.
I am going for a Chainmail, warband-style approach. You build a band of 5 - 6 characters, and fight battles, go to town, manage your party wealth, do stuff during post-battle, then fight more battles.
I also may include an Encounters phase where players can run a monster or two against a warband prior to or after the normal battle. You risk exploration and danger for extra wealth.
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Wow! That all sounds perfect. I actually downloaded b&b yesterday to kinda get an idea of what direction you may go with this. Really like the way the goal system is evolving.
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Sounds great! I'm really disappointed that Otherworld Skirmish still has not been released and I have all of these wonderful minis waiting to be gamed with.... Besides, who cant have one more set of rules? :D
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Hello Scott - I'm very interested. I've been looking for the perfect fantasy skirmish game for years. I love the Chaos line but felt GS Delves was a little too rules-heavy and included a few too many RPG elements for my tastes.
Like Too Bo Coo, I'm also eagerly waiting for the Otherworld Skirmish rules which should be out this summer according to the latest update on the Otherworld forums. I agree that there is room in this market for more than one set of rules.
I like campaign elements in a skirmish game but not RPG elements. I play a lot of RPGs and when I pick up a skirmish game, I want something with light rules that plays fast. Multi-player support is a bonus and a good point value system is critical. I think you nailed this in Chaos in Carpathia and I'm excited that you are working on this. I'll definitely keep an eye on this.
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WOW, has it been that long. I remember back to playtesting Delves, doesn't seem that long ago. This is really cool news and I wish you the best of luck.
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Hi Mates! Quick question, is it worth getting Delves or should I wait for the new game? I'm sad I missed your KS...
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@Too Boo Coo - I missed the KS too but picked up the PDF afterwards. I was hoping for something along the lines of Chaos in Carpathia. Delves was a bit heavy for my taste in a skirmish game. I'm not saying it's a bad game by any means, just that it wasn't really what I was looking for. I'm really glad Scott is doing a lighter weight skirmish game for Goalsystem. Your mileage may vary.
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I am seeking such artists who can work cheaply, or on spec.
Not entirely sure of just what definition you're using for 'spec', but one of them's (http://www.nospec.com/) a bit frowned-upon. Otherwise, take a look at ConceptArt.org (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php/11-ART-EMPLOYMENT-and-ARTIST-FREELANCE). Fantasy art is right up their alley (look at the Art & Artwork boards at the top of the main forum page) and some of 'em might work cheaply if they understand your situation and like the idea.
Though, if it's not prying too much, why wouldn't you kickstart this one?
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My guess is the poor turn out for the SuperSystem KS has something to do with it. I was on that KS and we just couldn't get momentum going. It's unfortunate that the big kickstarters are so successful and offer so many freebies that the smaller ones just can't attract people.
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Sadly I gotta agree with that on how KS has been going lately, the big pre-sale ones really are pushing out "the little guy" stuff that comes up.
Which I guess I am weird because it's the little ones I end up wanting to support and not the big ones. But anyway I recon we're not here to bemoan the possible problems with kickstarter... on to actual topic at hand.
I am so behind this!
I missed the GoalSystem Delves KS but did end up picking up a Print copy from Noble Knight.
But as is the case with a few other people here already, it turned out to not be exactly what I was wanting due to "too much rpg" in it. I was really wanting a minis battle game that didn't require something along the line of actual GM-ing.
My group do RPG-ing, but when we do we usually don't use minis and try to work the Role play aspect of that.
But most of the time it is easier for some number of us to get together and just do some table top gaming.
So, what I wanted and was hoping for was what you're talking about this time, a straight up fantasy minis skirmish game, with a campaign system!
I have recently picked up a Print copy of Blasters and Bulkheads 2 yes basically having GSD re-written into "Fantasy B&B" would be Fantastic!
As far as minis gaming goes the Goalsystem has been hands down one of my absolute favorites since SuperSystem 1st ed came out.
Please please please do allow some form of print (on demand?) option for this.
(I have a ton of pdfs but really they're almost useless for me and my group, we're all "book or it didn't happen" players.)
So besides bemoaning the problems with KS and trying to make clear my enthusiasm for this idea...
I think groups of say 3-5 PCs (Primary Characters) that could be supported by henchman and hirelings/followers would be good.
Maybe the Henchman could gain some amount of XP and have limited advancement, maybe even be able to step up to being a Primary if there is an opening (say a PC dies). But then other than that I'd like to see them generally being weaker than a PC, but more powerful than a single hireling.
Then I think the Hirelings/Followers could be the ones that need to roll around in groups of 5 or so. And they maybe wouldn't really gain XPs.
So to reference some Heroes of Legend and such, you've got Robin Hood and Little Jon, and then the Merry Men.
King Arthur, Merlin, Lancelot and/or Gawain are PCs. Named Knights of the Round could basically be Henchman and then some basic spearmen, bowmen, shieldmen, etc types as followers/hirelings for those that want them.
Beowolf as a PC, Wiglaf could be a henchman, and his thegns/servants would all be followers.
Also, besides team vs team pvp matches, warband to warband conflicts, it would be very nice to have the option to roll face a warband against a monster or monsters also.
So a campaign could mix up warbands fighting as well as monster hunts or fights against a big nasty thing (giant, big angry bear, hydra, Nemean Lion, giant boar, etc.) or group of nasty things like a tribe of orcs, goblins, reavers, snakemen, cultists and followers of Chaos and the like.
Anyhow, I am totally loving this idea, even if it is "just" Delves re-written to B&B it's what I have really been wanting and I would be buying several copies. ;-)
Cheers! ~R~
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Thanks for all of the feedback, folks!
I am not going to KS this. I'll make it on my own steam, or not at all. Once we get the SuperSystem 4th ed. PDF/POD going in a month or two, I will plow all of the funds from that into financing the GSF game.
I am literally working on this right now. As I wait to get my hands on the SS4 layout to edit, I have to do something else! :)
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I must admit, after reading about Delve I HAD to buy it, a skirmish/rpg is exactly what I've been looking for!!!!
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I must admit, after reading about Delve I HAD to buy it, a skirmish/rpg is exactly what I've been looking for!!!!
I hope you like it. There's a lot of love in that book. If you get the print version, it's one of the nicest books I've ever made.
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If you don't want to KS it would you possibly take preorders. Seems like there is some interest here and I would really like to see it happen
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Give me a week or two of sustained effort and I will have a play-test PDF to share with folks.
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Give me a week or two of sustained effort and I will have a play-test PDF to share with folks.
Woo Hoo! Back on track with my Otherworld minis!
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Definitely looking forward to the play test. Been working on a lot of random fantasy minis and this could help keep me motivated.
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Awesome news about the playtest rules. Sounds like it will be right up my alley. I'm definitely keeping an eye on this one.
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I just ordered some Four-A Miniatures goblins and chaos dwarves to make a warband for testing. I just need an old school GW Chaos Warrior to lead them!
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I've been meaning to pick up those 4A chaos dwarves too. Wasn't sure how much his shipping to USA was though.
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I've been meaning to pick up those 4A chaos dwarves too. Wasn't sure how much his shipping to USA was though.
I bought 2 Chaos Dwarves and a pack of goblins and it was only 2 GBP for shipping. Not bad!
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You guys should check out Tre Manor's barbarian horde kickstarter. His Helsvakt have a chaos warrior vibe to them.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1103158358/barbarian-horde (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1103158358/barbarian-horde)
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Very keen to see how this progresses! I've got a load of Hasslefree fantasy miniatures that are perfect for a game like this.
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Do folks want magic items separate from standard weapons and items or mixed in?
Does this matter?
In the rules as it stands, you can buy magic items to start a campaign, but I am working on a mechanic called "Cost of Power" which will make carrying too many magic items dangerous. This will hopefully balance the benefits and make magic items more interesting.
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I like the cost of power rule a lot. Magic weapons should always be powerful but dangerous. What kinda ideas do you have for negative effects?
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Agreed. The "Cost of Power" mechanic sounds intriguing and I like the idea of rare but powerful magic items. I'm not sure it matters if magic items are mixed in or not but my initial thought is to have them separate.
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Here's what I have so far, pretty simple and direct:
Cost of Power (CoP)
We treat Magic items in GSF as special, rare, and powerful. Every magic item possesses varying degrees of intelligence or will, and carrying multiple magic items can levy a serious cost on the power-hungry bearer. Before each game, players should tally up the Cost of Power scores for the magic items each member of his warband carries. Then each character with a CoP total greater than 1 rolls his Resolve against a TN equal to the CoP total. If the character succeeds on his check, he’s fine. If he fails, he starts the game at -1 Vitality, and if he suffers a KO, he also incurs a -1 penalty on any post-battle checks.
Lost Vitality from CoP checks cannot be healed by Regeneration, healing spells, or magic potions. It returns normally after the post-battle phase ends.
If the character still carries magic items in excess of CoP 1 at the start of the next game, he must make the check again.
Example: Tylak carries Glasses of Scrying (CoP +1) and a Greater Magical Long Sword (CoP +2) for a total CoP of +3. At the beginning of each game that he possesses these items he must make a TN3 Resolve check or start the game at -1 Vitality. If he winds up KO’ed or removed from play, he’ll also suffer -1 on his post-battle checks.
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I love the Goalsystem, so that project is great news! I backed Delves, and while I loved it, I was expecting something less rpg driven - even if it's possible to use it as a warband agaisnt warband ruleset.
Will you go for free warband creation or create some templates like it's done for Chaos in Carpathia (my fav skirmish ruleset! I love that book) or Chaos in Cairo?
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Will you go for free warband creation or create some templates like it's done for Chaos in Carpathia (my fav skirmish ruleset! I love that book) or Chaos in Cairo?
Thanks! Right now it's like B&B in the sense you build each character and make your own warband from them.
So you can have a Mind Flayer Wizard with an Ogre bodyguard and his Orc Allies fighting a warband of adventurers.
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More chargen.
Step 1: Select Race (species)
Step 2: Select Attribute Array
Step 3: Select Class
Step 4: Select Additional Special Traits
Step 5: Select Equipment
In step 3 there are 8 Classes--the classic D&D ones. Plus there's a lesser class called Retainer. This class is for folks who want to play bands with one or two heroes with better Classes and a number of lesser characters as aids. These Retainers start with 1 less Vitality and a lot less rules "tech" to worry about.
Retainers are not Henchmen. Henchmen are separate, and you can still build them as normal too.
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I like the retainer class. Perfect for all the lead adventure militia i just ordered.
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I like the retainer class. Perfect for all the lead adventure militia i just ordered.
Yes, when they lose their last Vitality (and they only have 2) they go down with no KO check.
A normal hero has 3 Vitality and still gets his KO check.
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On top of the cost for power rule how about some light and dark magic weapons\items that nergate magical properties of other weapons but those shud be expensive and rare.
Is there a component for carrying items like a backpack?
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There's this:
Backpack/Weapon Harness
Leather pack or sack allows the character to haul around extra gear.
Notes: The character may carry one extra weapon, and two extra items.
Cost: 2 pts.
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Nice. Looks like I'm sold
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Only just seen this post Scott.
I really like the sound of what i have read so far.The D&D Chainmail range of figures is one of my favorites.I have the rules and supplements but not played a game yet.The miniatures were hard to get over here and i am still trying to track some down.
There are more Goblins,Chaos Dwarves and loads of other Fantasy types waiting for release from Four A miniatures.Including the first warmachine too.
This maybe a game that i can get a warband painted up for ;).
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Thanks, folks!
Just by way of an update, I am getting closer to sharing a play-test doc.
I am working now to integrate the Delves campaign system with the new GFS mechanics. Going pretty well.
Combat and character creation is pretty much done, thought I can always add more or tweak stuff, and likely will. Maybe I will share a tidbit or two here later today if get another chance.
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Sounds good. I'm looking forward to looking at the playtest rules. Any preview of how magic will work?
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Sounds good. I'm looking forward to looking at the playtest rules. Any preview of how magic will work?
Somewhat like powers in B&B. Here's a sample spell:
Monte’s Stunning Slap
The spell creates an arcane hand that slaps its target and disrupts the flows of natural energy to him, inhibiting his movement or ability to act.
Fate: 2
Nature: Arcane
Cost: 10 pts.
Effects: The caster spends a combat action and makes an opposed attribute vs. Resolve goal roll. If the caster wins, the target is stunned (see Chapter 2: Actions and Combat for the effects of being stunned). This spell may be used in close combat or at range, and normal ranged combat modifiers apply.
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Thanks. I just picked up B&B this weekend but haven't had a chance to read through it yet. Is there a limit to how many times a model can use a power/spell or can they fire at will? I'm guessing that's what the Fate value is for?
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Fate is the cost to cast a spell. Fate replenishes each round, and Priests and Wizards have 6 points. BUT, that's also they're pool for adding dice to attack and defense, so they'll be short once the start throwing magic around.
Also, certain more powerful spells Exhaust fate, i.e., spend it up so it's gone until next game. For example:
Mind Blast
This spell strikes out like psychic whip to stun their targets.
Fate: 2 (Exhausted)
Nature: Arcane
Cost: 10 pts.
Effects: This attack spell uses the Small cone template located in the back of the book in the Appendix of play aids. Center the small tip of the template on the caster’s base. Any models touched by the template must defend against the attack. The caster makes a single attribute check vs. the Resolve goal rolls of any targets touched. Any target beaten by 2+ goals is Stunned.
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Ok, trying to get a feel for what folks want in terms of character advancement.
Right now it's like B&B in that you have a table for Martial types, one for Magic types, and a General one.
There are 8 classes plus the retainer, so I could do specific tables for each of them. It could be fun, but do folks want that level of detail in advancement?
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Ok, trying to get a feel for what folks want in terms of character advancement.
Right now it's like B&B in that you have a table for Martial types, one for Magic types, and a General one.
There are 8 classes plus the retainer, so I could do specific tables for each of them. It could be fun, but do folks want that level of detail in advancement?
Yes. Separate classes would be a good amount of detail without needing to be overwhelming in rpg elements.
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I'll think on separate tables for each Class some more. I'd like to hear what others think too.
I mad a ton of progress yesterday and earlier this morning.
Rules are getting close to being ready to test.
I'd like play some internal games first to make sure things are solid enough for wider release.
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I'm for class based progression trees.
Start as either Thief, spell caster, fighter,
end up as either: Specialized warlock (elementals, necromancy, etc)
or Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian Warlord
or Assassin, Thieves guild master, Politician
depending on the path you take
A forth low level progression chart would be cool too. Start off as an apprentice(anytype) and work up to the one of the three other trees as they advance. Would be good for the NPCs/ and henchmen etc.
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I think a list for each of the 8 classes would be good. Maybe a basic one anyone could choose from would be good too.
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I'm for class based progression trees.
Start as either Thief, spell caster, fighter,
end up as either: Specialized warlock (elementals, necromancy, etc)
or Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian Warlord
or Assassin, Thieves guild master, Politician
depending on the path you take
A forth low level progression chart would be cool too. Start off as an apprentice(anytype) and work up to the one of the three other trees as they advance. Would be good for the NPCs/ and henchmen etc.
It would not quite work this way. If I do it, each of the 8 Classes would get its own advance table. No tree-tables, really. If I did this it would allow me to tailor character advancement to each Class. I'd likely do a basic one for Retainers too.
This what I have right now:
======================================================================================================
The Benefits of Experience
Every five experience points a character earns allows him or her to increase some capability relevant to his or her role on the warband. We call these character milestones Bumps. Every time the character reaches a Bump, his or her player should roll on one of the tables below and note the result.
Unless otherwise noted, a character may only roll a specific D6 result once, so if he rolls the same D6 number twice, he should roll again until he gets one he has not already rolled. Bumps that appear on a chart multiple times may be rolled that number of times. For example, if a chart lists +1 Vitality on a result of “1” or “2”, you could garner up to two additional Vitality from that chart.
Bumps that grant points toward purchasing new special traits or spells may be “banked” for future use. In this way a character can save earned points until he has enough to buy a new trait or spell of his choice.
Martial Bumps
These bumps work well for characters who earn their gold in the thick of combat.
Roll 1D6
1 +1D CCA
2 +1D RA
3 +1D CCD
4 +1D RD
5 +1D DR
6 +1D on KO Checks
Magical Bumps
These bumps are ideal for spell casters, and may only be rolled by characters with those Classes.
Roll 1D6
1 +1 Fate
2 +5 pts. Spell*
3 +5 pts. Spell*
4 +1D MA
5 +1D MD
6 +1D Arcane Post-Battle Checks
*This result may be rolled up to two times for a total of +10 pts.
General Bumps
Sometimes a character will want to develop along a track that is more general in nature, and these bumps fill that need.
Roll 1D6
1 +1 Vitality
2 +1” Move
3 +5 pts. Special Trait*
4 +5 pts. Special Trait*
5 +1 Fate
6 +1D Post-Battle Checks**
* This result may be rolled up to two times for a total of +10 pts.
** This result may be rolled up to two times but must be applied to different checks from the following list: Arcane, City, Mercenary, Resource, or Wilderness.
Non-Random Advancement
If players dislike the idea of random advancement, they could all agree to just select which bump they want from the tables.
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If I choose to expand it I would add tables specific to the 8 Classes and the Retainer:
Bard
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Priest
Ranger
Rogue
Wizard
Retainer
So 9 such tables. This would allow me to stick in the sort of advancements that give cool little abilities we've come to expect from certain Classes--the ranger's Favored Enemy, for example.
Some of this stuff you can already mimic on the front end with Special Traits, and the existing tables do allow for the slow acquisition of new Special traits. It all comes down to how much detail I think people want, and that I want as well. :)
We'll see. I want to run a few campaign games to see what this current level of advancement feels like.
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I prefer the route you are going. This keeps it kiss simple and keeps people from hopping classes to cherry pick skills to min-max characters. It's always been a problem for multi-class characters
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I like the 9 tables approach. Once a person picks their class it's not like this is going to change over and over, so I cant see how it will impact the fluidity of the game. Looking frward to more!
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I prefer the route you are going. This keeps it kiss simple and keeps people from hopping classes to cherry pick skills to min-max characters. It's always been a problem for multi-class characters
Just as an aside, there is no mechanism in the rules for multi-classing. You buy your Class when you build the character, and that's it. He's done. No way to go back and add a second class.
Now you can use bumps to buy Special traits that will give you certain Class-like feature. For example, a Fighter could use two bumps to get 10 pts. and buy the Turn or Rebuke Undead special trait. This would make him behave more like a Paladin. I like this feature as it creates little nuances in characters as they develop.
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I tend to agree with BigB that the simple tables are adequate. I had the opportunity to look through B&B a bit last night. I think this is going to be a fun little game.
Scott - Have you considered doing a "basic" set for the core rules with basic character classes and options in the base game and then release a supplement with all of the "advanced" classes? That would allow casual gamers to stick to the basic options for quick pick up games and also allow others to add in all of the cool options they are looking for. Frankly, I would probably pick up the expanded options too but it might be a bit much for the casual gamer. You could then add all the class-specific advancement tables in the supplement. Just a thought.
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I tend to agree with BigB that the simple tables are adequate. I had the opportunity to look through B&B a bit last night. I think this is going to be a fun little game.
Scott - Have you considered doing a "basic" set for the core rules with basic character classes and options in the base game and then release a supplement with all of the "advanced" classes? That would allow casual gamers to stick to the basic options for quick pick up games and also allow others to add in all of the cool options they are looking for. Frankly, I would probably pick up the expanded options too but it might be a bit much for the casual gamer. You could then add all the class-specific advancement tables in the supplement. Just a thought.
I struggle with this myself. I want the single book to be as complete as possible, so I likely won't split it up, but I recognize that even what I have now might be too much for the casual gamer.
I could include an appendix with a lot of pre-built stuff; a pre-built warband or two. That might make it easier.
My games play best with 5 - 6 elements per side. Characters are deep and you have a lot of options in design. That's how I like to play so it's what I tend to write.
After playing a number of SuperSystem 4th and B&B games the last few weeks, I wanted this game to play even faster and be more lethal. I am trying to get the "mix" right. So characters begin with 3 Vitality instead of 6. Damage resistance is intentionally "behind" the damage capacity of weapons and spells. Fate cannot be used on damage resistance checks, and overall, you cannot use as much Fate on a given throw (only +2D now).
And I think using Retainers will allow you to play games a lot closer to Mordheim. They have only 2 Vitality and automatically fail KO checks. So if you wanted to play a style where you had one or two important characters and more retainers, you could. You'd likely end up with 1 - 2 more models than someone who ran 4 "Classed-up" Adventurers.
I have not built a full warband yet, so I am not sure on the suggested points for warbands. Likely 200 - 300 pts. Maybe a 60 pt. cap on your leader.
We'll see!
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So can we expect to see most of the standard fantasy species includes or will we have to build most ourselves? How about animals like dire wolves or giant rats? I assume those can be built as retainers
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So can we expect to see most of the standard fantasy species includes or will we have to build most ourselves? How about animals like dire wolves or giant rats? I assume those can be built as retainers
Yes! The current plan has a bunch of humanoid races as options for Classed characters and retainers. This includes monstrous races like Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Gnolls, etc.
There will be an optional section for much higher cost races like Mind Flayers, Ogres, Ogre Mages, Dragons (young ones only for characters), Hags, etc. One of these types could be ideal as the leader of a monstrous band, but you'll pay more dearly for him.
Then I will have a separate chapter called A Manual Of Monsters which will include a nice selection of creatures less suited to being characters: Owlbears, Trolls, Giant Rats, Slimes, etc.
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Also, there's this Special Trait:
Beast Companion
The character has a medium sized animal or monster companion who serves as a loyal ally in battle.
Effects: The companion possesses the following profile:
Beast Companion
Agility 4 Strength 4 Mind 1 Resolve 3
Move: 8” Vitality 2 [ ] [ ]
CCA: 4D CCD: 5D RA: - RD: 4D
MA: - MD: 3D
Traits: Sharp Senses +2D, Natural Attack DN5
Cost: 10 pts. (Druids & Rangers) ; 15 pts. (all other classes)
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There's something to be said about having everything in one book. I like the type of game you are describing and I encourage you to stick to your vision and put out the type of game you like to play. I think you'll find others want to play that too. I know I do.
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There's something to be said about having everything in one book. I like the type of game you are describing and I encourage you to stick to your vision and put out the type of game you like to play. I think you'll find others want to play that too. I know I do.
Thanks! Where possible I will bend my vision to follow what folks want. I think once we get into play-testing a bit folks will provide me lots of good feedback.
I really wanted to integrate what I consider to be the much more flavorful and fulfilling Delves campaign system, and I have done that. Now we have to make sure it works Ok with the slightly different structure of modified B&B. I think it will.
Only games will tell, though!
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Sounds good. Looking forward to taking it for a spin.
Is this the only place where you are discussing your game or should we be checking somewhere else too?
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Sounds good. Looking forward to taking it for a spin.
Is this the only place where you are discussing your game or should we be checking somewhere else too?
This is pretty much it. LAF is my oasis of miniature sanity online. I really treasure this site and the folks who post here!
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I think you'll find others want to play that too.
Yarp!
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I'm sure you dont want to recreate Delve since you've already published that game and didnt intend this as a 2nd ed. My reason for thinking the added bit of 9 seperate classes, especially since you said it would only be chosen once, would retain the most feel for AD&D, even if the rest turned into a more straight up skirmish. The idea of skirmishing with a distinct Paladin from a Ranger I think is just fantastic. While I see the tables as a great easy way for added skills, the core of each class could be a straight level + power arrangement. Just some thoughts! Either way, it sounds like a ton of fun so far and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with this. :D
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Wow you are really covering everything I could want in a fantasy skirmish game.
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Sounds great so far and I'm looking forward to it! (was looking for a decent fantasy skirmish system to use my upcoming bones II and the other minis I allready have!)
But, I think something of better organisation for equipment was lacking in B&B as well as a table for weapons.
Here more than ever for clarity purpose it would be great if the equipment were organised by type (ie weapons, armors, miscellaneous plus any other that would be needed).
A table for weapons would help a lot, even in appendix. And too, make some weapon traits if some weapons share the same abilities, it'll help a lot remember them (more helpful to know my flail has something like flexible like the whip and stunning like the hammer, than going to see each time the special properties of my flail and then discover they are shared with other weapons)
And even if we can buy magic stuff at the warband creation, I would prefer having the magical stuff separate from the mundane one. Will help allowing players who choose not to begin with magic stuff for their games/campaigns.
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We can use tables and split stuff up no prob!
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Ok, as of this morning, I have done the following:
-- Split Special Traits into 3 sections: Abilities (traits "normal" folks could have), Powers (supernatural abilities like a Dragon's breath weapon), Magical Spells (attacks and effects usable by spell casting Classes). This will allow folks to more easily run low-powered campaigns that miss out Powers, Spells, or both.
-- Split magic items from normal items.
I also may split normal items from normal weapons.
More as I think of it!
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Yeah! Thanks, that's exactly the kind of things that'll help players a lot to build their own campaigns and games!
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Anybody want to take a stab at making a Warband roster sheet for play-testing?
Here's what it needs:
===============================================================================
Player Name:_______________________ Warband Name:_______________________
Leader
Name:____________ Race:_____________ Class:__________________
CCA:________ CCD:___________ RA:________ RD:__________
MA:_______ MD:_______
Move:________ Fate:________ Vitality:_____ [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Special Traits
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
Experience:____________
Warrior
Name:____________ Race:_____________ Class:__________________
CCA:________ CCD:___________ RA:________ RD:__________
MA:_______ MD:_______
Move:________ Fate:________ Vitality:_____ [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Special Traits
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
Experience:____________
Warrior
Name:____________ Race:_____________ Class:__________________
CCA:________ CCD:___________ RA:________ RD:__________
MA:_______ MD:_______
Move:________ Fate:________ Vitality:_____ [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Special Traits
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
Experience:____________
Warrior
Name:____________ Race:_____________ Class:__________________
CCA:________ CCD:___________ RA:________ RD:__________
MA:_______ MD:_______
Move:________ Fate:________ Vitality:_____ [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
Special Traits
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
Experience:____________
============================================================================================
Perhaps if this was 2 column we could get 6 on one 8.5" x 11" sheet?
Any takers?
Thanks!
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I could not resist adding a fourth advance chart for folks to roll on! lol
Weird Bumps
Less about building characteristics and more about fantastic strangeness, these bumps all rely on a successful 2+ Chance Roll before each battle to work. Some results may also require you to exhaust Fate. Roll on this table if your character does not mind a carriage ride with Lady Luck!
Roll 1D6
1 Dimension Door: Gain a free move after battle setup, or a save this ability to escape one close combat with no free attacks during the battle--place yourself up to your Move distance away from the close combat you escaped from.
2 Godly Favor: You may ignore the gods, but they sometimes smile on you! Once per battle re-roll a DR check that would otherwise result in a KO. Priests may Exhaust 1 Fate to do this a second time each battle!
3 Unexpected Ally: Exhaust 1 Fate. You and your warband gain an unforeseen ally’s assistance during the battle. Use the stats for the Animal Companion or a character of similar quality for the ally.
4 Spectacular Death: When you suffer a close combat attack that KO’s you, Burn 1 Fate and make an immediate counterattack goal roll against every model in base contact. Once the attack is resolved you’re removed from play as if by Coup de Grace. During post-battle you must make an unmodified 1D6 - 3 roll on the Injury table in order to survive.
5 Inspire Allies: At any point during the round Exhaust 1 Fate to give a nearby ally a +1D bonus on any attack or defense goal roll. Bards may Exhaust 2 Fate to grant a +2D bonus!
6 Rich Patron: You’ve caught the eye of a wealthy patron. Provided you survive the battle, he or she grants +1 to your PWS during the Upkeep phase.
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Hey Scott, This is just a quick modification of some other sheets I had made in the past, but for playtesting, perhaps this might be useful,
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc447/BoobooTheDude/charactercardFcolorfantasy_zpse8d95be5.jpg)
I'd be happy to make some changes, and supply blank, or maybe a pdf.
Cheers, Carl
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That's very nice! A bank PDF version of that would be most helpful.
Thanks!
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Carl, I'm amazed by your talent and turn around time. Not trying to be a creep here but I also love your Stoelzel’s Structures line.
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Emailed it to the gmail address I have on record. Let know if you got it OK.
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Carl, I'm amazed by your talent and turn around time. Not trying to be a creep here but I also love your Stoelzel’s Structures line.
Thank you Nikdo, your comments are much appreciated. :) As for the speed of this, I have to say again, this is largely an edit of existing sheet I did as a fan project. Needed some tweaking for a different system, but kept the spirit intact.
:)
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You did Stoelzel's Structures? Great stuff!
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Gorgeous stuff! Carl is the man!!!!
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Thanks again guys. :)
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So, did you do away with the attributes here (SAMR)? Those sheet mock ups don't have them, but I recall seeing them earlier in the thread.
I hope that is not the case. I find dumbed down versions of Goalsystem disappointing. That is one of the things I disliked about Delves.
~Eric
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So, did you do away with the attributes here (SAMR)? Those sheet mock ups don't have them, but I recall seeing them earlier in the thread.
I hope that is not the case. I find dumbed down versions of Goalsystem disappointing. That is one of the things I disliked about Delves.
~Eric
Attributes are in there! Carl is adjusting the sheet to include them! They'll run prominently down the left side. GFS will be much more like B&B than Delves, though I am adapting the Delves campaign system for Party Wealth Score and post-battle activities. I really love those and I intend they live again in this game.
Thanks!
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Attributes are in there! Carl is adjusting the sheet to include them! They'll run prominently down the left side. GFS will be much more like B&B than Delves, though I am adapting the Delves campaign system for Party Wealth Score and post-battle activities. I really love those and I intend they live again in this game.
Thanks!
Yay! :)
Thanks for the quick reply Scott.
~Eric
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I played a couple of games over the weekend, and I am generally happy with the current direction, but I wanted to put something out there for folks to comment on.
All of my Goalsystem games feature an Attack/Defense matrix, i.e., a model activates and attacks, and his target defends. The defender does not "strike back" until he activates and takes his combat action. So the defender has no chance to harm the attacker.
But what if, like SoBaH, every character in an exchange had the chance to harm the other? so the winner of each close combat exchange would hit and potentially damage the loser. This would speed play immensely, I think, but is it a mechanic folks would welcome in a Goalsystem game?
Thanks for any feedback!
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Awesome. Glad the game is coming along.
Would it be a contested melee attack roll with the winner potentially damaging the looser? Sounds cool. How would you handle missile attacks and magic attacks? Maybe give the defender a free optional "dodge" movement if they win the contest?
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But what if, like SoBaH, every character in an exchange had the chance to harm the other? so the winner of each close combat exchange would hit and potentially damage the loser. This would speed play immensely, I think, but is it a mechanic folks would welcome in a Goalsystem game?
No one's cared much for my feedback, but I'll give my 2 cents again. I like the updated idea, even back in the day we made fun of the UGOIGO mechanics of AD&D. If you can combine strike with counterstrike, and not merely defense, that sounds very interesting. It may also free up 'time' to expand the game in other areas you were interested in. What sort of time frame do you see games played in?
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No one's cared much for my feedback, but I'll give my 2 cents again. I like the updated idea, even back in the day we made fun of the UGOIGO mechanics of AD&D. If you can combine strike with counterstrike, and not merely defense, that sounds very interesting. It may also free up 'time' to expand the game in other areas you were interested in. What sort of time frame do you see games played in?
Ok, that's two votes for this! I may work up an alternate Google doc with this scheme just to see what it looks like.
Thanks!
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Ok, that's two votes for this! I may work up an alternate Google doc with this scheme just to see what it looks like.
Thanks!
I think that if everytime a character or monster attacks, that they also run the risk of a counter attack, that may make the game more deadly in a way you had not originally envisioned....
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I think that if everytime a character or monster attacks, that they also run the risk of a counter attack, that may make the game more deadly in a way you had not originally envisioned....
Yeah, that's why it needs play-testing, I think. It will change the dynamic of the current game, for sure. Thanks!
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Just an update on things. I should be ready to release a play-test doc at some point in the next week or so. Maybe sooner. I need to give the radical new close combat rules a thorough spin myself before unleashing them.
Also, I got my order from Four-A miniatures, and they are amazing! My Goblin warband with Chaos Dwarf leaders will be a terror, or least they'll look good dying!
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Just an update on things. I should be ready to release a play-test doc at some point in the next week or so. Maybe sooner. I need to give the radical new close combat rules a thorough spin myself before unleashing them.
Also, I got my order from Four-A miniatures, and they are amazing! My Goblin warband with Chaos Dwarf leaders will be a terror, or least they'll look good dying!
I would like to play-test this. Right now I am using Swordplay, (about to be updated to the new and superior reaction system in NUTS! 2nd edition - free as always,) but this would be good to compare to my "usual" go to skirmish rules. Skirmish rules should be fast, unpredictable, and deadly.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Good news for the play-test! My fantasy figures are waiting for some scratch fight!
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Some images from a play-test session last weekend!
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/GSF-testpic1_zps521c4cdb.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/GSF-testpic1_zps521c4cdb.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/GSF-testpic3_zps003b2c39.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/GSF-testpic3_zps003b2c39.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/GSF-testpic5_zpsf60874c6.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/GSF-testpic5_zpsf60874c6.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/GSF-testpic2_zpsb3b707dc.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/GSF-testpic2_zpsb3b707dc.jpg.html)
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/GSF-testpic4_zps6cc79c65.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/GSF-testpic4_zps6cc79c65.jpg.html)
Thanks for looking!
--Scott
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Great looking game. Really looking forward to try it out
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Great setup. I can't wait to try this out.
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Ok, folks! Here's links for the first play-test version of GSF, and Carl's wonderful warband roster sheet--thanks, Carl!
https://app.box.com/s/xeim3xtnmzqeelnm9cy4
https://app.box.com/s/3wrh3klhmpk4n030utv2
Try them out and let me know what you think!
A few comments:
-- Please don't comment on the "layout" -- this is not a finished rules doc and will be subject to much revision and an actual layout process once we reach the end of this process, and even while we're laying it out. Comments on the current layout as you see it will likely not be relevant.
-- I have not finished the monster section. Many more monsters need to be included.
-- I want to build Class archetypes that player's can simply apply a species package and equipment to. This will come in the next few weeks and make it a lot faster to build characters.
Everything you need is there now, but you'll have to build characters from scratch at this point.
-- Use 70 pts. as your max for single characters, and 300 pts. for your Warband size.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks!
--Scott
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Great! Downloaded and I'll try it for sure and let you know about it, thanks!
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Thanks, Scott. I've downloaded the play-test version and will take a closer look. Hopefully I'll be able to throw out some figures this weekend...
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Thanks Mate! My Drow arrive tomorrow!!!
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Ok, 300 GPB worth of Otherworld mins just arrived in the post and are added to the other 500 GOB that I bought last year (If you like Otherworld their 'Vouchers' are great, if you spend 200GOB, you get 300 to buy items! You cant use sale prices, but the sales are generally 10-25% with a few up to 40%, but if you buy the voucher, you got 50% free, so it's still a better deal in most cases! For the 700gob I got I spend about 450 on vouchers. Anyhoo, my support for OW aside, I bought their Drow line (minus the Driders) and plan to use them as my first warnband for Delve/your as yet untitled game! :D I decided to start playing with Taymia Clear Smoke to 'mystify' the drow armor a bit and the Reaper Triad Dark Elf paint set. Work will be a bit slower with the summer here, but by the end of it I expect to have a warband painted and ready! :D
I read a bit through your rules and my initial thoughts were that i still plan to play Delve as a 'regular game' type thing so that I can run some sort of campaign. It seems very well suited to that. I also plan to use your new game to run stuff at my local club and with Mates. VERY excited to see more! :D
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Downloaded both.
Family in town for Independence Day so will read them when I get the chance.
Gracias,
Glenn
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Downloaded and checking it out.
Then the real trick will be getting the time to actually Play-test it, heh. ;-)
Before they went up I gave B&B(2)* a full read through and it is a great use of the rules so I expect I'll feel the same about this too.
* I had bought it but not really given it a solid read before. It's been in the pipe to get used but since I picked it up we haven't managed to actually get any minis gaming in /sad/.
ANYHow... I did find a funny thing happen when I was reading B&B. I said earlier that for me I found that GSDelves was more of an RPG rules set than I had been wanting. So the funny thing was that while reading Blasters & Bulkheads 2 it occurred to me that it would work great as an RPG, heh!
So I guess for me it seems like B&B nailed the point between TTG and RPG. If GSF is basically a "fantasy version of B&B" then it should be fantastic.
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Love what I'm seeing so far. Looking forward to starting up some of my massive pile of Bones minis and trying this out!
~Eric
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Love what I'm seeing so far. Looking forward to starting up some of my massive pile of Bones minis and trying this out!
~Eric
Thanks! I just got Carrie Posing's cover art, and it is a fiendish mix of "old school" and modern design. Once I can cajole Joe D. to take a break from SuperSystem 4th ed. layout, I will ask him to slap a logo on it and I can show it off.
P.S. I changed the working title to Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish and I think this will end up being our keeper title.
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Hoping to give these rules a whirl sometime during the next couple of weeks, just wanted to say that from initial reading these rules seem awesome!
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Hoping to give these rules a whirl sometime during the next couple of weeks, just wanted to say that from initial reading these rules seem awesome!
Ditto on both counts!
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Are you still planning on releasing this game? This thread has been quite for awhile.
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Are you still planning on releasing this game? This thread has been quite for awhile.
Yes! I am working on a private superhero rules project now that I will likely never be able to publicly release, and I am editing SuperSystem 4th ed.
Just as an aside, many, many folks have downloaded the rules docs, but I have gotten zero feedback here or elsewhere. Not sure if that is an indication of lack of interest, lack of quality, or what.
Anyway, they're still on my radar!
Thanks!
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Hoping to give these rules a whirl sometime during the next couple of weeks, just wanted to say that from initial reading these rules seem awesome!
Thanks!
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Anyway, they're still on my radar!
Oh yes, please! I'm just reading the rules and I really love what I see.
Some quick notes:
- technically 'Henchmen' and 'Retainer' are considered as 'Class Traits'? So as there is only one Class Trait allowed per Model/Group there can't be a Rogue-Retainer or a Magician-Henchmen-group, right?
- there is three creature/character sizes available in the test rules (small/medium/large). Will there be any further size options in the final version?
- an extensive monster manual would be cool for the final version :)
Cheers,
Hagen
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Oh yes, please! I'm just reading the rules and I really love what I see.
Thanks!
Some quick notes:
- technically 'Henchmen' and 'Retainer' are considered as 'Class Traits'? So as there is only one Class Trait allowed per Model/Group there can't be a Rogue-Retainer or a Magician-Henchmen-group, right?
Yes, correct.
- there is three creature/character sizes available in the test rules (small/medium/large). Will there be any further size options in the final version?
Not sure. I could go the OGL route and bring the list from Huge through Gargantuan, but that might exceed the "scope" of this game.
- an extensive monster manual would be cool for the final version :)
Cheers,
Hagen
Yes, I will be adding more monsters. Between a short attention span and working on other projects, I left this doc alone for a little while. So when I get back full into it, once SS4 is released, I will be adding more.
Thanks, again!
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Just checking in to let folks know this project is on my radar for a 2015 release!
Here's the raw cover image from Carrie P.:
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Warband-cover_zpsf2798634.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Warband-cover_zpsf2798634.jpg.html)
The right half will be the front cover, and the left half will wrap around to the back.
Here's a sample of some of the interior artwork from Jan A.:
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r497/srpyle_1970/Bullywugs_zpsf87370cf.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/srpyle_1970/media/Bullywugs_zpsf87370cf.jpg.html)
I am thinking we'll go with old school, single column layout. Very simple. Now frills. Plenty of classic-style artwork.
Thanks for looking!
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Planning to download the beta and give them a try over Christmas hols (two weeks off, starting in a couple of hours :D :D :D)
Looking forward to the full set. Will you be offering them on Lulu (or some other UK based publishing site)?
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Planning to download the beta and give them a try over Christmas hols (two weeks off, starting in a couple of hours :D :D :D)
Looking forward to the full set. Will you be offering them on Lulu (or some other UK based publishing site)?
Thanks! Definitely will be offering them on Lulu as well as the PDF.
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Just checking in to let folks know this project is on my radar for a 2015 release!
Great news!!! I had been afraid that this project might never see the light of day... now we'll get this in 2015 via Lulu - and this is one of the few rule sets I really want to have printed and not only as pdf.
BTW: the cover art is cool. Quite old school. Reminds me of Erol Otus stuff
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Great news!!! I had been afraid that this project might never see the light of day... now we'll get this in 2015 via Lulu - and this is one of the few rule sets I really want to have printed and not only as pdf.
BTW: the cover art is cool. Quite old school. Reminds me of Erol Otus stuff
Thanks! We were trying to channel that Old School vibe, so I am glad it worked for you! Now we need a proper logo!
And I need to get going and fill out the book's bestiary a bit more.
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I am going to do an update of the downloadable play-test rules in the next day or so. Just an FYI in case anyone is planning to print them out.
Still no new monsters yet, but I am shortening the ranges on ranged attacks to bring them into balance with newer, more lethal close combat system, and also doing a general clean-up.
Thanks!
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Wow! this is fantastic,I just came across this thread,grabbed the rules it was easy to pick up since I own all the SS (4th which is Awesome btw) and Goalsystem Delves,After viewing this i just picked up B&B =P.
I was wondering how close is this system to The 16 page Fantasy book that's on Wargames? Is it basic rules in this Warband system minus the Campaign?
Tempted to grab it anyway since its super cheap,but was wondering if these rules supersede those?
Any other updates on this?
Haven't got a chance to play through but hope to in the next few days.
Thanks Scott, your system has certainly occupied and intrigued our small group for many hours on end.
The Bean.
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Yes, it looks to be a really great fantasy skirmish rules set. Keep on Scott to encourage him to keep the "wheels in motion".
Each Goalsystem rules set seems to improve upon the older ones.
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Each Goalsystem rules set seems to improve upon the older ones.
Indeed!
Really looking forward to this. I've bought 2 copies each of the new versions of Blasters & Bulkheads and SuperSystem, one for me and one for my best gamer buddy.
Plan on doing the same with this.
I've been tempted by a few other fantasy skirmish games lately but realistically this is the only one I know will hit the "just right" (for me) spot between detailed (options, DiY, gear, stats, etc.) and simple (quick and easy resolution).
Not Rules Lite but not Rules Heavy either. ;-)
Cheers! ~R~
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What happened to this?
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I’m curious, too.
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I'm pretty sure that it's not at the top of Scott's priority list right now, but that doesn't mean that he won't eventually return to it. I think that it would be a nice addition to the new set of streamlined rules that he's been developing of late.
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All this drifted into Goalsystem Delves? Or will you make a simpler version of Delves, more like void pirates?