Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Arthur on June 16, 2014, 05:38:20 PM
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Just posted on the Perry Mins Facebook page : his kingdom for a horse and all that sort of things...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10418946_520214474767330_6911002710021041211_n.jpg)
According to the Perry FB page, pics of the command sprue should follow in the next few days - and yes, interested parties will be able to build a Richard III personality figure if they so desire. The main frame for the knights is currently in tooling at Renedra.
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Just posted on the Perry Mins Facebook page : his kingdom for a horse and all that sort of things...]/quote]
I bet he wished that he'd taken at least one of them on offer when lord Stanley's lot waded in!
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According to the Perry FB page, pics of the command sprue should follow in the next few days - and yes, interested parties will be able to build a Richard III personality figure if they so desire. The main frame for the knights is currently in tooling at Renedra.
Thanks for posting the pic and the info Arthur... the one day I don't check out their Facebook page too :D.
Darrell.
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As a citizen of the city that will soon blow a whole heap of cash reburying that bugger, i may have to pick these up just to have myself a little Leicester mascot :)
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https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/posts/520789508043160
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He should be reburied at York. It's where he would have wanted to be buried.
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He should be reburied at York. It's where he would have wanted to be buried.
He had his chance to speak up, he remained oddly quiet. :D
besides, york didn't give a fig until Leicester started making some serious tourism cash from him, they didn't even care about the attempts by Leicester uni to find his body.
His body should stay close to the site it was found it's a better way to display his remains and the facts of his discovery.
(but i don't see why it should cost 2 million to build him a fancy tomb in the cathedral despite their alrady being a stone dedicated to him and his actual grave being literally across the road.)
(should point out that this is mostly tongue in cheek, i can see why york would want him, but york is a nice city that people go to for fun, Leicester needs this, no one comes to Leicester unless they're looking for women of the night. )
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Hmm. Well, nice figures, but that is a sorely disappointingly small frame, compared to the previous two medieval boxes, where the command frames included a whole host of head and arm options as well as all sorts of extra bits and pieces... :-[
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My impression is that it's just meant to be the icing on the cake, a vignette frame of sorts. We'll see what the main frame looks like in the next few weeks but I suspect it will offer a lot of possibilities in terms of poses and weapons, hence the limited options on the command sprue. The 8th army command frame was a bit similar in that respect, with only an advancing officer and RTO.
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Hmm. Well, nice figures, but that is a sorely disappointingly small frame, compared to the previous two medieval boxes, where the command frames included a whole host of head and arm options as well as all sorts of extra bits and pieces... :-[
I'll hold my judgement until I see the main frame. I mean the mounted Men at Arms didn't even have a command frame, and it was still great.
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I'll hold my judgement until I see the main frame. I mean the mounted Men at Arms didn't even have a command frame, and it was still great.
I think that might be the point. All of the dismounted MAA's are potentially officer / personality / commander types. So the command sprue might just be Dick and his standard bearer.
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Amazing news!
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Historical query .....,
If the second chap is Dick's standard bearer, wouldn't he be somewhat more elaborately armoured? I'd think it to be quite an honour to stand beside The King waving his flag, in which case I'd assume the standard bearer to be someone quite important. This chap doesn't look particularly important (eg, open faced helm).
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Historical query .....,
If the second chap is Dick's standard bearer, wouldn't he be somewhat more elaborately armoured? I'd think it to be quite an honour to stand beside The King waving his flag, in which case I'd assume the standard bearer to be someone quite important. This chap doesn't look particularly important (eg, open faced helm).
Given how much we don't know, it may have been that 'standard bearer' might have been just a title and the actual carrying of it performed by some nameless oik. In somewhat later tradition, standards were generally carried by the most junior 'officers' - the ensigns and not by more experienced soldiers, some of whom had the 'honour' of providing protection for it and from which we get ranks like 'colour sergeant', which in no way relate to their original function.
Hmm. Well, nice figures, but that is a sorely disappointingly small frame, compared to the previous two medieval boxes, where the command frames included a whole host of head and arm options as well as all sorts of extra bits and pieces... :-[
I suspect you'll be eating those words. ;)
Assuming that the normal frames have the same variations as previous sets and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a normal command frame in any case, I'm sure there will be sufficient for a further ten or twelve pages on your Perry Medievals thread... which I'm looking forwards to seeing almost as much as the figures themselves.
:)
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Thanks Jim, I was hoping you'd respond with something insightful! :)
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You know I make it all up as I go along right? ;)
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Assuming that the normal frames have the same variations as previous sets and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a normal command frame in any case
Not sure that'll be the case : we know there'll be 38 figures in the box with six different armoured bodies on the main frame. So six standard frames plus the Richard III vignette shown above seem very likely. And to be honest, I'm not sure we need an additional command frame with musicians and such like as the first two infantry sets have that covered already.
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Yes, the two additional bodies are fine. It's just the sudden absence of additional arms, heads and bits and pieces of equipment on the command frame. These were one of the best aspects of the previous sets, which really uprated the versatilty and felt ike great value for money. You also got TWO command frames in each of the earlier medieval sets (apart from the MMAA which had no command frame). But since the WW2 sets, we now seem to be getting a single, much-reduced command frame with two 'one build option only' figures.
Which frankly, is just not as good.
Pity.
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If that's the case, I take it back. I presume as one of their best adverts for this range, your mentioning it might reap a result somewhat better than the rest of us. I'd rather their release be delayed and be better, rather than the alternative.
I think you would be fair in saying that feedback here would mostly back your opinion.
:)
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Hmmm. I guess perhaps they realised they were being a bit too generous with some of their earlier sets... 14 different bodies to a set, lots of extras, two command frames, 40 figures...
Perhaps to keep the price down, they figured it was better to include a little less stuff and hold the price around the £20 mark. Compared to most of the other plastic manufacturers, the Perry boxes still represent a cornucopia of variety and almost infinite permutations. And a great price.
Still a pity though ;)
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Perry Miniatures
Yesterday
As promised here's some quick photos of the first 'shots' of the command for the upcoming Foot Knights box, just a few final tweaks to be made as perfectionist Terry at Renedra isn't quite happy yet! As you can see it comprises an overall command figure and his standard bearer. Although the heads supplied for the commander are based on Richard III any of the heads on the main frame, or previous plastic boxes, can be substituted. Also the arms for both bodies, and the head for the standard bearer, can be interchanged from the same sources. At the moment we are hopefully looking at August for the release of this box. As soon as we get shots of the main frame they will be posted
Perry answers a few of the questions.
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Still a pity though ;)
Pooh Richard, you'll still have a whale of a time coming up with various permutations and these will prove slightly more challenging as there aren't as many original options on the frame ;)
cheers
James
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Perry Miniatures....
*snip*
Perry answers a few of the questions.
There you go then, at least that's two additional bodies that are compatible with pretty much everything else instead of one trick ponies. So it could still be Richard III's army as opposed to an army of Richard IIIs.
:D
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There you go then, at least that's two additional bodies that are compatible with pretty much everything else instead of one trick ponies. So it could still be Richard III's army as opposed to an army of Richard IIIs.
:D
A herd, a herd, our kingdom for a herd!
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A herd, a herd, our kingdom for a herd!
lol
Darrell.
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And talking of artwork:
From the perry site and painted by Dave Andrews.....
Beautiful..... now I can't wait to get my mittens on 'em!!
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Darrell.
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/
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I take it back. The bannerman looks of much higher status now that he's painted. 8)
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I really don't think there's a market left in these. People are starting to become Perried-out. :)
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I take it back. The bannerman looks of much higher status now that he's painted. 8)
I think Michael has based the sculpting of the King and his Standard Bearer on the Graham Turner pictures in the Osprey Bosworth Campaign Series Book, thus the look of Sir Percival Thirwall- in that he is wearing a livery jacket with sleeves instead of his own heraldry. This may or equally may not have been the case.
Darrell.
Both images from the Osprey Cappaign Series Bosworth 1485 Last of the Plantagenets
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Thanks Darrell. Certainly looks to be so.
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Thanks Darrell. Certainly looks to be so.
No probs :)
Darrell.
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That command duo is fantastic. I like my roses white ! Query how often Yorkist king's banner bearer (only two of course, Edward IV and Richard III) actually would have worn a white rose badge. Edward generally preferred the Sun in Splendor, and Richard of course used his White Boar.
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That command duo is fantastic. I like my roses white ! Query how often Yorkist king's banner bearer (only two of course, Edward IV and Richard III) actually would have worn a white rose badge. Edward generally preferred the Sun in Splendor, and Richard of course used his White Boar.
Probably not at all- though it is late (I was up at 4am!) and I'm knackered- can't really think straight o_o o_o o_o.
Darrell.
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Many nobles had more than one badge. The principal one was often the same as the crest on their coat of arms, usually, but not always some form of animal. Secondary ones were usually objects. Edward as Earl of March (iirc) used a white lion and white roses and only changed to 'sunne in splendour' after he became king (and the lion became gold), in memory of his victory at Mortimer's Cross... presumably the royal livery of red and blue came into use at the same time (as opposed to the blue and white of the Lancastrian royal livery, carried by several royal relations, including Richard of York).
The Percys had several badges and one train of thought is that each badge represented a component of the forces they could raise, a 'regimental badge' if you like, so the household might have worn the lion badge, one group the crescent, another the shacklebolt. Seems a reasonable assumption, providing they were all used at the same time or didn't represent individual family member's own contingents.
I always thought the three brothers, Edward, George and Richard were somewhat unique in having all used the murrey and blue livery (although Edward's changed after being crowned) and also the white rose as a secondary badge. Usually different ones were used with families; the Earl of Arundel had different ones to his son, Lord Maltravers, as did several other families (the Bourchiers are another family group who used different ones).
There may be some convention with liveries which has not been passed down to us regarding their use and application, as well as traditions associated with them. Certainly nobles were generally recognised by the badges worn by their men and if livery colours may have changed, I doubt badges often did.
I may be wrong, but I believe the white rose was associated with the Mortimers, who Edward based his line of succession on, so their use was 'propaganda' based if that is correct. Certainly the white rose appears to have had more use with the Yorkists than the red did with the Lancastrians, which if memory serves me well, was a Tudor badge and both red and white were combined after Henry married Elizabeth of York... so presumably the white rose was very much the recognised symbol of the Yorkists, which hints at it's common use, even after Edward changed his badge (or one of his badges) to the 'sun'.
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Arlequinn, I quite agree that the White Rose was certainly a recognized Yorkist badge. Just thought that the Household (which certainly would have included any knight trusted to bear the banner) would more probably have used the King's personal badge (Sunne in Splendor, or White Boar) than the faction badge.
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I may be wrong, but I believe the white rose was associated with the Mortimers, who Edward based his line of succession on, so their use was 'propaganda' based if that is correct. Certainly the white rose appears to have had more use with the Yorkists than the red did with the Lancastrians, which if memory serves me well, was a Tudor badge and both red and white were combined after Henry married Elizabeth of York... so presumably the white rose was very much the recognised symbol of the Yorkists, which hints at it's common use, even after Edward changed his badge (or one of his badges) to the 'sun'.
I may be wrong (too!), but I don't think the Red Rose was used at all by the Lancastrians as a badge. It is a Tudor invention unlike the white Yorkist Rose and was designed to symbolise the emergence of both the houses under Henry VII.
Darrell.
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Well if rumours are to be believed, it seems the Twins may have a lot more time to spend on their various ranges.
What with no longer having the inconvenience of the "day job" to reduce their productivity.
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Well if rumours are to be believed, it seems the Twins may have a lot more time to spend on their various ranges.
What with no longer having the inconvenience of the "day job" to reduce their productivity.
It is no rumour: https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/posts/527930710662373
I may be wrong (too!), but I don't think the Red Rose was used at all by the Lancastrians as a badge. It is a Tudor invention unlike the white Yorkist Rose and was designed to symbolise the emergence of both the houses under Henry VII.
I think I read it was used by Edmund Tudor (off the top of my head), so yes, not used by the Lancastrians, nor used in the Wars of the Roses, as he died in 1456.
Having said that, I may be falling for Tudor propaganda myself, as that would be too convenient for history to have a new dynasty with the exact same symbol, but in a different colour to the one it replaced.
So yes, no, maybe so. ;)
Arlequinn, I quite agree that the White Rose was certainly a recognized Yorkist badge. Just thought that the Household (which certainly would have included any knight trusted to bear the banner) would more probably have used the King's personal badge (Sunne in Splendor, or White Boar) than the faction badge.
'Faction Badge'? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Badges were personal to a specific person and his followers, but not used over the whole of a faction (i.e. there were no 'Yorkist' or 'Lancastrian' badges, only those of individual lords). So a man wearing Edward's badge was part of his own household, or within a unit raised by one of his own retainers; which within any 'Yorkist Army' might be a very small part of the whole.
The men of other lord's households and their own units would wear their badge, regardless of which faction they fought for... like football teams, the only time English players wear a single unifying colour is in 'international games', otherwise they wear that of their own club and there are a lot of clubs.
While badges in the form of jewelry (broaches, chains, pendants) were often given as gifts to lords who supported the leader of a faction in some way, that was purely a personal thing and not extended across that person's men.
Or at least that appears to be the case from what we can gather. :)
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I think I read it was used by Edmund Tudor (off the top of my head), so yes, not used by the Lancastrians, nor used in the Wars of the Roses, as he died in 1456.
Having said that, I may be falling for Tudor propaganda myself, as that would be too convenient for history to have a new dynasty with the exact same symbol, but in a different colour to the one it replaced.
So yes, no, maybe so. ;)
lol We all may have fallen for that lol
'Faction Badge'? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Badges were personal to a specific person and his followers, but not used over the whole of a faction (i.e. there were no 'Yorkist' or 'Lancastrian' badges, only those of individual lords). So a man wearing Edward's badge was part of his own household, or within a unit raised by one of his own retainers.
The men of other lord's households and their own units would wear their badge, regardless of which faction they fought for... like football teams, the only time English players wear a single unifying colour is in 'international games', otherwise they wear that of their own club and there are a lot of clubs.
While badges in the form of jewelry (broaches, chains, pendants) were often given as gifts to lords who supported the leader of a faction in some way, that was purely a personal thing and not extended across that person's men.
I absolutely concur with Arlequín on this point. It is also worth remembering that as the Wars of the Roses wore on, Bastard Feudalism ie Earls, Lords etc would have become more inclined to increase levels of Maintainance and Livery as it was a two way thing- the Upper Classes protecting their followers and the Lower Classes (for want of a better phrase) doing service for their 'Lord'. Badges would have been handed out to their retainers of various rank on a level that was perhaps more regularl than times pre- Wars of the Roses.
That is not to say that, say during the HYW, liveries were not common.
Darrell.
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That is not to say that, say during the HYW, liveries were not common.
It crossed my mind (although I have no evidence to support this line of thought) that it's possible that men hired on an individual basis directly by the crown might have been issued the white with red cross jackets we are familiar with. Those forming the rank and file of the companies of individual 'sub-contractors' might have instead worn their own lord's liveries, with the 'red cross' worn as a patch-type badge applied over it.
As the standards themselves universally feature the cross of St. George and then the livery and badges, it might not be so far from the truth that this might have been carried over onto the livery coats themselves, albeit in a slightly different fashion.
Certainly in 1475 it seemed important to note the badges of individual lords, which wouldn't really be worth the time and effort if everyone was wearing England's away strip.
Just throwing that one out there... ;)
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It crossed my mind (although I have no evidence to support this line of thought) that it's possible that men hired on an individual basis directly by the crown might have been issued the white with red cross jackets we are familiar with. Those forming the rank and file of the companies of individual 'sub-contractors' might have instead worn their own lord's liveries, with the 'red cross' worn as a patch-type badge applied over it.
As the standards themselves universally feature the cross of St. George and then the livery and badges, it might not be so far from the truth that this might have been carried over onto the livery coats themselves, albeit in a slightly different fashion.
Yeah, this makes sense to me especially as it is reckoned, Freezewater Publication, Banners and Livery colours of the Wars of the Roses, that the cross of St George probably wasn't used at home games (on English battlefields) but was for away games (France).
Certainly in 1475 it seemed important to note the badges of individual lords, which wouldn't really be worth the time and effort if everyone was wearing England's away strip.
Just throwing that one out there... ;)
I would tend to agree again. (Although the game did get cancelled lol).
Darrell.
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With respect to the HYW, English ordanances dictated that soldiers in the service of the king should wear a badge or livery coat over bearing the colours of St. George. Likewise the French responded with a badge or livery coat of St. Michael.
Tho did not deter english soldiers from wearing liveries of their lords. Moving forward to the War of the Roses I generally agree with your comments, Arlequin and Atheling.
Pewter or base metal badges would have been available or handed to those in service of a particular lord. Badges were quite common, many were sold by pilgrimage sites, another little money spinner. Pilgrims could then demonstrate their piety.
As a member of a living history company I wore the livery of a Yorkist lord and wore the badge of Edward IV on my hat. There are also instances where levied troops wore a plant sprig of a particular type which grew in their area for identification purposes.
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All that armor! :o
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I want those...I want those a lot.
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They sure look like they have "Captain Blood" written all over them to me... :)
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Lordy lordy lordy... :-*
I cannot wait.
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:) ;) :)
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Gents,
With so much variation possible what would be the best source of info regards armour combinations that could be using these figures for the WOTR or is a simple case that as armour is so individualistic that any combinations go?
Cheers
Happy W
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Top quality armour was bought as a made to measure suit, so would be all of one style. The cheaper 'munition' quality stuff was bought 'off the peg' as batches of breastplates and so on, or individuals also used bits and bobs from various sets to make up a suit (or part of one).
Personally I wouldn't worry too much about mixing styles, although as always you can guarantee there will always be someone around who can point out that you have 'Milanese' arms on a 'Flemish' body. The Perrys are really into all things 15th Century, so I imagine everything will be compatible within the set.
Cheapest need to know source for my money is probably Osprey's The English Medieval Knight 15th Century by Christopher Gravett. IIRC he is top man at the Royal Armouries in Leeds (or was) and while the actual history may not be his strong point, he knows armour.
:)
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These are great! Perfect for my new project... ;)
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Fabulous - those poleaxes look good, and an alspeiss too! Joy 8)
Some of the helmets look suspiciously like existing ones from the other sets, although there are definitely some nice new ones there too, which is good.
Love the poses of the bodies.
So presumably it's just this one frame in the box (X times) plus the two figure command frame we've already seen...
That means nowhere near as much variety as in the earlier WOTR sets, which is a tiny bit disappointing, and yet these additional components on top of the existing sets will increase the overall build variety of the whole series exponentially - so I'm still very happy :)
The only slight problem is that I already have way way too many fully armoured men-at-arms in my WOTR host, compared to the amount of billmen and bowmen. This is just going to make it worse! By golly they look good though :)
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So presumably it's just this one frame in the box (X times) plus the two figure command frame we've already seen...
According to the Perry blurb, the box will contain 38 figures - so logically six of the six-figure frame above plus the two-figure command sprue previewed a few weeks ago, yes.
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And here they are (well, almost...) :
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/The%20box.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/d/Armoured_array.jpg)
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Looks pretty cool
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Oh boy! now I am panting!!! :D :D :D
I love vignette of the knight getting his squire to put his harness on!!!
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
I've been thinking about the huge range of possibilities for this boxed set for many a month if not a year!
Darrell.
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Cool
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Just preordered!!!! ;D ;D
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Ordered :D
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Ordered :D
Too right! :)
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Cheapest need to know source for my money is probably Osprey's The English Medieval Knight 15th Century by Christopher Gravett. IIRC he is top man at the Royal Armouries in Leeds (or was) and while the actual history may not be his strong point, he knows armour.
Arlequin is certainly right, for an Osprey this is a very good book.
Having said that, it wouldn't do you any harm to read a bit more into it, Tobias Capwell, curator at the Kelvin Grove museum in Glasgow, is what one might term as an expert and his books are available at Amazon:
The Real Fighting Stuff: Arms and Armour at Glasgow Museums, Tobias Capwell:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Real-Fighting-Stuff-Glasgow/dp/0902752820/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
Masterpieces of European Arms and Armour in the Wallace Collection, Tobias Capwell:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterpieces-European-Armour-Wallace-Collection/dp/0900785861/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0JDE5GG6T42KSBYQ49RZ
Hope that helps you folks?
Darrell.
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I vaguely remember reading somewhere that 'men at arms' formed about 10% of English domestic armies in the 15th Century (I don't know how true that is, but I doubt it's far from the mark). So while the 3 box deal is tempting, do you think the Perry's will come up with a deal for 27 boxes of WotR infantry?
lol
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I vaguely remember reading somewhere that 'men at arms' formed about 10% of English domestic armies in the 15th Century (I don't know how true that is, but I doubt it's far from the mark). So while the 3 box deal is tempting, do you think the Perry's will come up with a deal for 27 boxes of WotR infantry?
lol
lol That would be a resounding no! lol
Still, there's plenty of other projects that I'll be using them for besides the Wars of the Roses and they will be a vast improvement on the 12 (not including the Yorkist and Lancaster nobles) available metal men at arms.
I'll be using some as the front ranks of my Swiss, the Burgundians, French Ordonnance army possibly even Talbot's force at Castillon amongst others so they will get used! Eventually lol
Darrell.
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So while the 3 box deal is tempting, do you think the Perry's will come up with a deal for 27 boxes of WotR infantry?
lol
I guess they will change their WOTR army deals to incorporate the boxes though... 10% ratio or no. :)
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The great thing will be to chop 'em in half to make more mounted men at arms; well that's what I plan to do anyway ;) :)
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I'm actually looking forwards to the 'light cavalry' set more. Non-MatA mounted figures have never been much in evidence in figure ranges over the years, while MatA's were always over-abundant. With metal costs being as they were/are, the cost of creating forces like the French & Burgundians, with their mounted archers and coutiliers was always prohibitive.
For the skirmish gamer, being able to essentially cheaply have duplicate foot and mounted figures for games, for all mounted types, has been a long time coming.
:)
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I'm actually looking forwards to the 'light cavalry' set more. Non-MatA mounted figures have never been much in evidence in figure ranges over the years, while MatA's were always over-abundant. With metal costs being as they were/are, the cost of creating forces like the French & Burgundians, with their mounted archers and coutiliers was always prohibitive.
For the skirmish gamer, being able to essentially cheaply have duplicate foot and mounted figures for games, for all mounted types, has been a long time coming.
:)
I agree, I need more light cav! :D
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I agree, I need more light cav! :D
Well ditto, I would of course welcome the early arrival of the Mounted 'Lights' :)
I wonder how far off they might be? I know that the Perry's have surprised us all with their Early 15thC release, should be around or before October 25th is my guess(?) :) That might rule out an earlier release for the Mounted 'Light' troops but then again we really have no idea how far along they are. They might be in tooling, they may well still be on the sculpting table(?).
Darrell.
Darrell.
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I'm patient, so just knowing they are in the pipeline is enough. :)
It is, I imagine, the final box in general bread and butter troop terms, which would leave just a few 'oddities' to be produced in metal. That being said, I wonder if there is sufficient interest for Scots/Northern foot, Irish and perhaps some poorly protected English levies out there, to warrant further plastic sets?
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I'd like some. Lord of the Isles and all that?
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I'm patient, so just knowing they are in the pipeline is enough. :)
It is, I imagine, the final box in general bread and butter troop terms, which would leave just a few 'oddities' to be produced in metal. That being said, I wonder if there is sufficient interest for Scots/Northern foot, Irish and perhaps some poorly protected English levies out there, to warrant further plastic sets?
Well, the Gallogliagh/Gallowglass and Irish Kerns are glaring holes if you want to fight the Battle of Stoke Field that's for sure. I'm not so sure that it would be prudent to produce Scottish Lowland troops of the sort that Margaret (probably) had in her army as they wouldn't look so different from the English troops as you know Arlequin.
I think and I stress 'think' that anything else we see for this period will be in metal and probably along the lines of various national command packs and hopefully the correct mini's to finish off the Wars of the Roses/Cousins War that I have outlined above.
Move a little further back into the 15thC and I wonder if we will see a box of plastic mounted Men at Arms for the Agincourt to Orleans range(?) or perhaps French foot 'knights' men at arms for the same time period?
Darrell.
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They are now working full time - meaning that all release date estimates are out the window.
By this time next year we'll have full plastic sets for the Second Schleswig War and all three Cod Wars (ships included).
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Some of those spiffy Castillian Sucession helmets wouldn't go amiss, either.
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They are now working full time - meaning that all release date estimates are out the window.
By this time next year we'll have full plastic sets for the Second Schleswig War and all three Cod Wars (ships included).
Goodness, I've always wanted figures in 28mm for cod in full harness.
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The 10% ratio is fine for bigger battles, but you'd expect that to shift significantly to the right if you're doing a skirmish game based on a confrontation between magnates' military households.
I expect they offer up considerable opportunities to kit bashing with the existing boxed sets to create less well armed troops, such as armoured legs for a brigandine wearing man at arms or retinue archer...
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I expect they offer up considerable opportunities to kit bashing with the existing boxed sets to create less well armed troops, such as armoured legs for a brigandine wearing man at arms or retinue archer...
I didn't even think about that! :o
Ok I will put an order in.
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As much as I love my Front Rank WotR figures, the opportunities the Perry plastic range offers has me sort of wishing I could revisit the period in plastic. :(
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I'd like some. Lord of the Isles and all that?
So would I :) The wish list is huge :D
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I'm not so sure that it would be prudent to produce Scottish Lowland troops of the sort that Margaret (probably) had in her army as they wouldn't look so different from the English troops as you know Arlequin.
The devil is in the detail, Northern English and Scots troops would obviously look slightly more rugged and less effete than their Southern counterparts.
;)
Joking apart, I think it's largely a case of 'poorer' looking rank and file, which could be covered by a 'Levy' set. The current WotR Infantry do cover a wide range of 'social classes' as it is, but the bulk of them strike me as being quite up to date in fashion terms for the time. I could be wrong but I imagine that the more rural parts of England, the North and the Scots Lowlands 'might' look a bit dated and scruffy.
How far you could go down this route by mixing and matching with a HYW Infantry set remains to be seen. The Perrys are of course very much into all things Medieval, so if there is anything approaching a glaring omission, they are already aware of it, so anything I might say is actually redundant really.
I'm pretty sure you're right with the other minorities, Mortimer's Cross and Stoke Field both saw large numbers of 'Irish troops', of which a reasonable number might have been 'English' from the Pale and I can't see enough call for the 'native types' to warrant the expense of producing a plastic set.
I have no doubt that further plastics for the HYW period will be forthcoming and what would a French Army be without massed ranks of French Men at Arms? I would imagine that the range will probably expand to around the same size as the WotR one myself.
:)
The 10% ratio is fine for bigger battles, but you'd expect that to shift significantly to the right if you're doing a skirmish game based on a confrontation between magnates' military households.
Most definitely! I doubt that the 'professionals' and 'semi-professionals' within a noble's household and those of his retainers, would be that vastly different in composition to comparable and more formally organised continental 'lances'.
So a 'Knight', a slightly less well-equipped 'second' (who in many cases appear to have been an archer rather than a 'lesser-man at arms') and between 1-3 archers, all mounted - at least for travel purposes, is probably the ratio we are talking about as the core of any WotR force.
Once you start adding in recruited or indentured companies of infantry then the ratio shifts. However the general ratio of 'Men at Arms' to 'others' across NW Europe at this time ranges between 1:7-1:10, so the English were hardly unique in this respect.
Nevertheless as you say, depending on situation and circumstance, 'every' engagement did not involve the full range of troop types in their overall ratios, whether in the WotR or Continental wars.
... Captain Blood still needs more archers though. ;)
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... Captain Blood still needs more archers though. ;)
True. I am woefully 'under-bowed' :?
Painting longbowmen is just so darned boring :D
When the HYW English set comes out, I will definitely hybridise a few with various other plastic parts, to create some 'lower order' longbowmen in older kit, as you describe...
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True. I am woefully 'under-bowed' :?
Painting longbowmen is just so darned boring :D
Outrageous - we're definitely going to fall out ;)
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Outrageous - we're definitely going to fall out ;)
Fight fight fight :D
cheers
James
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I apologize if there's a proper thread about, but i don't understand the pre-order thing on the perry website: it says 20£ plus shipping, but when i am going to pay on payPal the total cost is less than 17£...
Is there any discount that i didn't see for the pre-order?
thanks,
jack
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Hmmm. That's strange. They definitely took £20 for my Pre-order via PayPal... Maybe there's a special Italian discount? :)
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Hmmm. That's strange. They definitely took £20 for my Pre-order via PayPal... Maybe there's a special Italian discount? :)
Maybe there's a canadian one! (i'll stay in Canada for another 5 days)...
Anyways, i think i will wait for the official release! :)
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Maybe there's a canadian one! (i'll stay in Canada for another 5 days)...
Anyways, i think i will wait for the official release! :)
>:D >:D
The luck of the Canadians/Italians :D
Darrell.
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I think if you order from anywhere outside the UK, it is without some tax. I pre-ordered a box some weeks ago, and paid 17£ per box, or something like that. It cancelled out the postage, basically.
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I think if you order from anywhere outside the UK, it is without some tax. I pre-ordered a box some weeks ago, and paid 17£ per box, or something like that. It cancelled out the postage, basically.
I just tried to go till the end of the order, just before clicking the "placing order" is 23.70£.
still a very cheap price, but i don't see why not to wait a month and look at the first reviews. :)
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Because you know the reviews are going to be great? ;)
Enjoy the rest of your stay in Canada. You'll be glad to get home I expect :)
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Prices on the Perry site include VAT, which is deducted during ordering for those who don't have to pay it. For the US, VAT is roughly equivalent to shipping.
I forget this every time I order... and every time I get a pleasant surprise when I see the total. lol
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Re: lowland Scots troops. I've used the "Mercenaries" box to do some Scots; admittedly the household retainers of Bell the Cat, so probably considerably better equipped than most, and would most probably have access to blackpowder weapons. However, there are sufficient "unarmoured" bodies in amongst it to represent your common-or-garden "sodjer", and most importanly, pikes! (Lots of pikes!)
Plan A was originally to do the Army of James II at Roxburgh (mainly as an excuse to do lots of cannon and arquebusiers, and mangle a metal figure to represent the unfortunate Jimmy 2.0 after his inspection of the artillery...), however, it's sort of morphed into it's current form as something intended for gaming Sauchieburn (once I find some decent references...)
very much a work-in-progress...
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Complimentary metals on the workbench ;D
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/pages.php?page=metalsworkbench
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Well spotted Phil, the pikemen/billmen are just what I was picturing, as opposed the somewhat tidier and more fashionable types in the plastics range.
:)
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(https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/oznJEqkP5FDl0NOkouEaFh_zxg4YdubhQSHkCDwqD0OJcuZqcGFTASoiRH3zD5OkrFqjdqvZSqkzN8h4mHIAsVH4TxIUm1Zcxg7uGbv3VJxgQ6CixPlJiK3yu18JHeAZf-tG_efwPQwaUI3jLYh2mGq17BuyHeCfkMxVhXc=s0-d-e1-ft#https://gallery.mailchimp.com/96342586a188d41026c9abb55/images/2c94bd0b-bf71-478b-859d-fb1d83d1aea1.png)
The box contains 38 multi-part plastic figures, 17 flags, unit bases and information sheet.
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I do hope to see the command sprue sold separately.
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I do hope to see the command sprue sold separately.
The cheapskate in me was hoping that the ACW limbers would be separate too.......
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Arrived and built!
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Arrived and built!
Pics or it didn´t happen... ;)
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I'm told mine have been sent. Unfortunately I'm out of the country for Another 10 days :o :o :'(
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mine haven`t arrived yet :(
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Nothing at my end as of yet either :'( :'(
Mr Posty, get your skates on! :)
Darrell.
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Mine arrived yesterday but still not had chance to open the box. Here goes...
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Mine arrived yesterday but still not had chance to open the box. Here goes...
Mine too..... I got so excited I glued some of them together there and then (Sorry Nick- your mini's will be ready as I promised!).
Here's some very and very bad quick snaps:
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MORE!
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MORE!
I'll get my camera out tonight after some undercoating and take some proper pics- might even add a splash of paint as I'm painting Medieval's for a client at present.
Darrell.
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Darrell, since I won't get mine for a few more days, being out of the UK at the moment, can you say how many new heads there are, versus retreads of heads we've already seen in the previous three late medieval boxes? Or are they all new components? Some of them look familiar, but I don't know whether that's because you've cross pollinated the heads from previous sets, or whether they're the same in the latest set? :)
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Darrell, since I won't get mine for a few more days, being out of the UK at the moment, can you say how many new heads there are, versus retreads of heads we've already seen in the previous three late medieval boxes? Or are they all new components? Some of them look familiar, but I don't know whether that's because you've cross pollinated the heads from previous sets, or whether they're the same in the latest set? :)
Off the top of my head, they're all quite similar Richard, except that of Richard III who has an option for letting down his hair, not to be recommended in a big Medieval brawl!! :D
The bodies are full of action and very dynamic- better than the metals which if I remmeber correctly, I think you're not a fan of(?)
Looking forward to seeing you have your usual fun with the components matey 8)
Darrell.
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Okay. Ta :)
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Okay. Ta :)
You'll be excited by the dynamism in the bodies matey- trust me :).
Darrell.
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To be fair guys there isn't that much variation you can include... kettle hats, sallets and armets are, well... kettle hats, sallets and armets, to a point at least.
Okay you can throw in the odd continental fluted cabacette, or extend the 'tail' of the sallet a bit, but then you lose a more generic one in the process, particularly as the more unusual ones are usually 'limited editions' and fairly unique to certain areas.
Maybe they could be persuaded to extend the 'European heads' range? Now that would be good. :)
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My brother found a copy of 'Sun of York' online and sent it to me as a late birthday pressie. Absolutely superb.
Needless to say, I am now well and truly bitten by the WOTR bug and will be picking some of these up when I next see them.
I was wondering if anyone else has dabbled in trying chrome effect spray paint for them?
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I was wondering if anyone else has dabbled in trying chrome effect spray paint for them?
Vallejo and GW (though they're not as good as they used to be) metallics all the way for me mon ami :)
Darrell.
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I'll get my camera out tonight after some undercoating and take some proper pics- might even add a splash of paint as I'm painting Medieval's for a client at present.
Darrell.
That was yesterday ;)
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Needless to say, I am now well and truly bitten by the WOTR bug...
You'll be sorry. ;)
It is both fascinating and infuriating in equal measure, I've not managed to kick my interest in it to the curb in over thirty years, but there was a time when we didn't talk for a while.
:)
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It is both fascinating and infuriating in equal measure,
I am so angry about the way the names/titles are so tricky to pin down, the way there were apparently only about half a dozen names for men at that time, the way people kept swapping sides all the time and the way fathers would be killed, then their sons would step up and their names/titles be utterly identical.
Stop it!! Stop it all of you!!
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Mostly it is titles that are the problem and does tend to give the idea that there was more swapping an changing than there was. Few families actually changed sides and then it was usually provoked by some dramatic shift, like Warwick's supporters in 1471, or the Yorkist vs Yorkist split in 1483-85.
Authors don't help as they usually don't distinguish between folk like Jasper Tudor and William Herbert and just go for 'The Earl of Pembroke'. Or they switch between the two so you don't know who they mean, so you think there are two people instead of the one. Then you have things like 'Lord Maltravers' becoming 'Earl of Arundel' without any mention and despite his dad dying in the preceding chapter.
lol
You'll grow to love it though. :)
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Captain Blood's Question
can you say how many new heads there are, versus retreads of heads we've already seen in the previous three late medieval boxes?
There are 6 new helmets on the main sprue, and 4 that are the same as mounted men at arms (I believe) - hope that helps!
Just 'getting to know' these guys and finding out which poses are work best.
Cheers, Simon.
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Thanks Simon. Looking forward to seeing what you do with them :)
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My box arrived yesterday and I built ten figures last night. I am very impressed.
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I've managed to assemble a dozen or so, and agree models are very fine.
I've drafted a quick review of them on my blog - for anyone who's interested in case you've not yet opened your wallet on the PM website!
Blog is here: http://je-lay-emprins.blogspot.co.uk/
Looking forward to getting some paint on them now - and then the release of the useful metal standard bearers pack.
Cheers, Simon.
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I've managed to assemble a dozen or so, and agree models are very fine.
I've drafted a quick review of them on my blog - for anyone who's interested in case you've not yet opened your wallet on the PM website!
Blog is here: http://je-lay-emprins.blogspot.co.uk/
Looking forward to getting some paint on them now - and then the release of the useful metal standard bearers pack.
Cheers, Simon.
In some of the photos on the Perry's site, some of the heads looked underscale and disproportionately small. Is that a fault when one sees the figures "in the flesh"?
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Great review, thanks Simon. Glad they've addressed the issue of the polearm joints. Good news :)
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They look mighty fine, and I have to get some as I have been commissioned to make a RIII @ bosworth diorama for an old work colleague.
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I just got mine today. I M SO EXCITE.
Incorporated one of them into my next command stand for my aSoIaF project.
Good work on the review, Simon.
And I am sure you hear it all the time, but your blog and the body of work contained therein has been a huge inspiration to me. Thanks for sharing your stuff!
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I'm eager to get one myself. Maybe I'll get it with a friend and split the contents, 38 knights is a lot of them for my little army.
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That was yesterday ;)
I do beg my pardon :D ;D
Darrell.
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I do beg my pardon :D ;D
Darrell.
Come on Darrell, you haven't had the audacity to sleep have you :D
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Slacker... lol ;)
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Come on Darrell, you haven't had the audacity to sleep have you :D
I'm afraid that I did :D.
Slacker... lol ;)
I know I can be soooooooooo lazy at times! ;D ;D
Darrell.
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Just got my (first) box of these. Overall they are fantastic figures with a lot of animated poses, especially those using poleaxes. My only disappointment is that there is only one standard bearer in the box. I guess I will have to buy a couple of sets of the metal figures to ensure that my contingents are all displaying their lord's livery banner.
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If you wish to remain 100% plastic, the command sprue should be available separately in a short while.
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I do hope so. Some nice pieces on that sprue...
Just started building my first couple...
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First ten done
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/15157350895_94c4650e05_o.jpg)
Bigger pictures here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/31905569@N05/
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Lovely!
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My only disappointment is that there is only one standard bearer in the box. I guess I will have to buy a couple of sets of the metal figures to ensure that my contingents are all displaying their lord's livery banner.
I'm sure you could stick a bit of styrene rod in place of a pole arm and get as many as you want :)
cheers
James
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I'm sure you could stick a bit of styrene rod in place of a pole arm and get as many as you want :)
Jim is quite correct. I have converted one of the polearm-wielding arm sets in a banner bearer for another command stand I am working on. It works perfectly well and was an easy-breezy conversion. A couple cuts here, a drill there, and bingo!
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I'm sure you could stick a bit of styrene rod in place of a pole arm and get as many as you want :)
Jim is quite correct. I have converted one of the polearm-wielding arm sets in a banner bearer for another command stand I am working on. It works perfectly well and was an easy-breezy conversion. A couple cuts here, a drill there, and bingo!
Thanks for the tips. I will give them a try.
Here are my first attempts at creating standard bearers from the foot knight box.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/garybourne/IMG_5095_zps0704347d.jpg) (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/garybourne/media/IMG_5095_zps0704347d.jpg.html)
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/garybourne/IMG_5094_zps4abe0f68.jpg) (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/garybourne/media/IMG_5094_zps4abe0f68.jpg.html)
I used a couple of pikes from the mercenaries set for the banner poles.
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First ten done
Very nice painting, just got lost in your Flickr feed for a few minutes.
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None too shabby Gary :)
I have now made a few up myself, and updated my long running Wars of the Roses thread with a commentary:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=40936.1275
Here's a taster...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/19/577_07_09_14_5_59_27_2.JPG)
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None too shabby Gary :)
Why thank you. :) I'm now going to read your thread and turn green with envy. ;)
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Brilliant paint job 8) 8) 8) 8)
Hope mine come out half as nice!
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Well, the formidable sculpting machine that is Perry World Domination Enterprises has now added metal standard bearers along with static billmen/halberdiers/pikemen to watch the former strut their stuff and wave their gaudy rags :
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/WR%2037.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/WR%2038.JPG)
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I really like those billmen at rest. Great characters.
Unfortunately, I already have about 50 unpainted Perry WOTR metals, plus enough plastic to add a further, oooh - 150 figures? Maybe nearer to 200?
So probably, I shouldn't buy them...
::)
Hmmmm....
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But Richard, you need to improve your ratio of bill men to MAA..... Go on, you know I'm right ..... :D
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Yes, but then I'd need to add another 37 longbowmen to improve my ratio of bills to bows ;)
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But you'll be doing that anyway once the 'light cavalry' set comes out, you're certainly going to want dismounted versions of all those mounted archers you're bound to make.
lol
-
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhh!
I'm going to end up with 500 figures in this collection!
;)
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhh!
I'm going to end up with 500 figures in this collection!
;)
But we all knew this. I'm surprised it took you so long lol
cheers
James
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhh!
I'm going to end up with 500 figures in this collection!
;)
There are those who might say that's not bad as a 'starter' army. ;)
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There are those who might say that's not bad as a 'starter' army. ;)
lol lol lol
You can always just put them in nice cases and charge admission.
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Am liking the standard bearers - very useful open-handed figures, so I've ordered several packs. The billmen will be converted to be more Swiss - a few headswops and addition of bends perhaps - to fill the rear rows of pike blocks.
Hope this is the start of many new packs from Michael for the 1450-1500 ranges.
Simon.
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Painted up my first half dozen - part of a group of distinguished Burgundians from Charles the Bold's household, having to fight on foot.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6319_zps0cf8d48d.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6319_zps0cf8d48d.jpg.html)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6320_zpsc28837e5.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6320_zpsc28837e5.jpg.html)
Relatively quick to do - washes and drybrushing - all the fine details are there on the figures.
Simon.
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Those are really nice simon, a good mix of styles and colours but still identifiably Burgundian.
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Wow, excellent Simon. Love the blued armour and the chap in the livery coat and kettle hat :-* :-*
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well done Simon
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Well done Simon. :-*
How did you do the blued armour?
Bye the way, in the Solithurn Museum, there are some black breastplates with polished Swiss crosses.
They appear to be from a later period but I may try a few as Swiss captains.
Regards
Mick
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They look great Simon 8)
The blued armour is very effective :)
cheers
James
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Thanks - the blue armour is normal process of painting, but finishing with 2 thin washes of GW blue wash and then a very light drybrush of silver to highlight.
Hope that helps.
Yes - re the Swiss cross on breastplates - Schilling chronicles seems to show them too - in white, black and blue (as i recall) on steel armour...just waiting for some Perry Swiss figures now!!
Cheers
simon.
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Still waiting for mine to arrive in down town Delhi. I am hoping that there will be a head that I can convert so that it is bare, but with the gorget plate covering the chin, ie that just the Sallet has been removed. From what I have been reading Chris Wotsit's "Bosworth" this would be closer to the last minutes of Richard. I am not sure I like the version on page 1 - it looks too much like Rupert Everett for my taste, who I am sure would have played Shakespeare's version admirably at some time in his career.
Graham
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Captain Goode - that idea would make an excellent (and accurate) figure bareheaded but wearing a bevor.
You could try carefully cutting off the sallet from the head on the blued armour figure of mine (above pics) and then cutting at the right level a bare head - one in the new box and one in the Mercenaries bow and glue them back together.
I may have ago myself now...I'm surprised that Captain Blood hasn't hit on that one yet, in all his numerous options he's done to date!!!
Cheers
Simon,
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Haha - give me time! ;)
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Highly effective poses and excellent painting.
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Quick shots from the desk of a few more, done this weekend.
Just received the new Perry metal standard bearers who'll fit nicely into this group. Couple more plastics to go too.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6340_zpsf22e3c49.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6340_zpsf22e3c49.jpg.html)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6339_zpsd61ad5ce.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6339_zpsd61ad5ce.jpg.html)
Cheers, Simon.
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My goodness their abit to nice!
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Great stuff 8)
Love the gold and livery :)
cheers
James
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Amazing! Great brushwork on them. I can't wait to receive mine and get to paint them
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Very nice work indeed!
Christopher
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Excellent builds and painting Simon.
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like them a lot :-*
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Nice work, must get some for Lion Rampant.
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And Light Cavalry is on its way. 99% ready, heading to Renedra soon... :)
https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/photos/pcb.577085695746874/577084549080322/?type=1&theater
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:'( :'( :'(
My God, how am I ever going to keep up.
Tell them to stop!
;)
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light cavalry have to get these!!!
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Dear oh dear; More conversion material,my office is looking like a Perry Miniatures storeroom ;)
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Just completed my version of the Foot Knights -as Burgundian household contingent from Charles the Bold's army.
Have included some new metal standard bearers and have added extra plumes and St Andrew crosses.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6344_zpse618a908.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6344_zpse618a908.jpg.html)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/chicks_photos/IMG_6350_zps22bef2a2.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/chicks_photos/media/IMG_6350_zps22bef2a2.jpg.html)
More pics on my blog...http://je-lay-emprins.blogspot.co.uk/
Thanks.
Simon.
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Splendid work Simon, splendid :-*
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Oh yes :-*
Wonderful. Itching to get on with mine... No time... >:( :'(
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Brilliant as usual :-*
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Splendid
-
Fantastic paint job.
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Stunning. 8)
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Excellent Work
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Coming soon to a thread near you... ;)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/19/577_19_10_14_1_29_41.JPG)
(Once I've done all my home and garden duties for the rest of the day... ::))
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(http://media1.giphy.com/media/Ucvfi6Vnig6Ri/giphy.gif)
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:-*
Glorious indeed!!
-
lol
Ah yes, I forgot - our favourite book, Cubs ;)
For the first batch of my 'Sunne of Yorke' contingent, pop over to my Perry WOTR thread...
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=40936.1290
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/19/577_19_10_14_5_34_19_4.JPG)
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Ah yes, I forgot - our favourite book, Cubs ;)
I finally got a copy! Happy now.