Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Furt on August 18, 2008, 05:04:22 AM
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Just finishing some adobe buildings and was wondering what people do about doors? Do u always use doors and do you make them operable or fixed? I'd love to know how to make a working door - I've considered tiny hinges but thought of the expense.
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I've never quite seen the sense in a working door for a gaming model. Maybe if you're trying to give an impression in a photo, perhaps, but I don't think I'd want to be bothered opening doors in a model when you can probably just set the mini inside the building (if it has an interior!).
As for making doors...in my case, if there's no interior, I just glue basswood (lime, to any furriners!) strips on to a backing of thin foamcore and glue it slightly recessed into the opening. If the door is open, I'd just make it out of thicker wood, if it's in one piece, or glue strips on to a paper core, with 'metal' or wood bracing, if it's planked. I'm afraid I'm not one of those who simply scribes lines into a slab of wood.
You can see a sample, here, from my Blacksmith shop, in progress.
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If you really want to make working doors, you can make small hinges yourself using a thin tube and wire that fits into it (a loose fit is required, but not too loose, you don't want your door to slide open by itself). Glue two sections of the tube to the back of the dooropening where you would place the hinges. Cut two ends of the wire. Bend the wires at a right angle, glue the horizontal part to the back side of the door, slightly higher than the tube height. Slide the vertical section of the wires into the tubes, which completes your hinge. You can now open and close the door.
I hope this is somewhat clear, it's a bit hard to describe it without pictures.
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I hope this is somewhat clear, it's a bit hard to describe it without pictures.
I can understand it and envisage it (I actually think I could do it) - and if a person with my modelling skills can, I think your explanation works fine ;)
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Archangel1 - that door is simply beautiful! :)
That is a really great idea white knight - I wonder could I pull it off?
Maybe I'll just have the doors removable so figures can stand in the doorway if they need to.
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My technique for making operable doors is a bit more rudimentary than White Knight's. It probably doesn't look as nice, but I'm happy so long as the doors work. I just get a piece of 3mm balsa, scribe it with lines, and drill a hole in the bottom of it, near one edge (about 1-2 mm in). It's not as hard as it sounds. Then I treat the door with watered-down PVA glue to make it a bit harder, and finally I make a threshold, drill a hole in it too, and glue a piece of wire in it. A "poor man's hinge", you might call it :D
I've never quite seen the sense in a working door for a gaming model. Maybe if you're trying to give an impression in a photo, perhaps, but I don't think I'd want to be bothered opening doors in a model when you can probably just set the mini inside the building (if it has an interior!).
It makes sense if you're into "adventure" skirmish gaming like I am. You can visually represent whether a door is left open or closed, which aside from looking nice, keeps you from having to make mental notes about it during a game, or having to assume that all doors get closed again they've been passed through, which is boring. I do quite a lot of stuff like this, aimed to make gaming boards more "interactive". For instance, when making tables, shelves, market stalls and stuff like that, I don't glue items directly on them, for the eventuality that said pieces of furniture get overturned during a scuffle. It's not that far from the kind of minutiae you're into when building dioramas, only aimed for a different application.
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That is a really great idea white knight - I wonder could I pull it off?
Thanks, but I can't take credit for it as I read it somewhere myself (I think it may have been in one of the GW terrain building supplements).
My technique for making operable doors is a bit more rudimentary than White Knight's. It probably doesn't look as nice, but I'm happy so long as the doors work. I just get a piece of 3mm balsa, scribe it with lines, and drill a hole in the bottom of it, near one edge (about 1-2 mm in). It's not as hard as it sounds. Then I treat the door with watered-down PVA glue to make it a bit harder, and finally I make a threshold, drill a hole in it too, and glue a piece of wire in it. A "poor man's hinge", you might call it :D
That does sound a lot less work and less risk of glueing fingers together!
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Just in the middle of making some adobe stuff myself.
I add doors and windows as I think the models look empty without them, but they are all fixed and not hinged.Personally I don't feel the need to do so for my games as I don't use interiors.
They are all made of balsa wood, either scored to represent planks or individually panelled with thin balsa strips.
I add small details like handles and indentations to represent nails etc.
For examples of my adobe stuff look at the Old West and workbench boards for photos.Here are a couple of examples.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/casa3.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc80/nickfutter/Church7.jpg)
Can we have photos of yours please. :)
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Can we have photos of yours please.
Malamute are u serious! I would be very reluctant to post any pictures of my work next to any of yours! lol
Your buildings are what inspired me to try an adobe set for my Tangier pirate game in the first place. When they are finished - if they look any good I will post.
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A Tangiers pirate game? I demand to see photos of that!
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A Tangiers pirate game? I demand to see photos of that!
Agreed,Photos are essential.
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Can we have photos of yours please.
Malamute are u serious! I would be very reluctant to post any pictures of my work next to any of yours! lol
Your buildings are what inspired me to try an adobe set for my Tangier pirate game in the first place. When they are finished - if they look any good I will post.
Thanks, I am flattered to think I inspired you. Please post some pics, I love to see how other people model things.I am sure they look better than you think. Everybody is always over critcial of their own work.
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I am yet to "spackle" and paint them yet and still very unsure on the exact necessary techniques. I'm seriously not sure they are worth putting up at the moment - they're just glorified foamboard boxes at present!
Rhoderic, I don't plan on really playing in building interiors like yourself, just allowing models to gain a bit of cover - do you think I need operable doors or maybe just removable ones?
A little off topic, but Malamute, while I have your attention could I please ask a few questions about your adobe buildings? Anyone else PLEASE feel free to add your opinions.
Firstly I want my adobe buildings to serve in a variety of theaters, namely the Barbary Coast and probably the Sudan. I was tempted to paint them vibrant white, but have opted against that - I really like Malamute's job. What color combination would achieve a "neutral" looking adobe building, I could use in a number of periods/places?
Secondly, when u base buildings, how much overhang do you leave on the base. I am finishing mine fairly flush, with the intent they can butt up nice and close to other buildings. Is there a disadvantage to this?
Lastly, I assume those flagstones are individually cut pieces of card? Do u cut a heap of similiar shapes and jigsaw them together or (God help me) cut them out to suite?
Thanks everyone for the great advice on this forum - you are all so helpful! :D
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Rhoderic, I don't plan on really playing in building interiors like yourself, just allowing models to gain a bit of cover - do you think I need operable doors or maybe just removable ones?
I'm afraid I'm hardly an authority on this matter, so maybe you're better off asking for a general consensus instead :)
But in my opinion, as you're not making interiors for your buildings, operable doors might be a bit redundant.
Regarding "overhanging" bases for buildings, I try to skip having those altogether whenever I can.
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Regarding colour, I've seen a lot of adobe houses used for Asian and Sudan theaters painted what seems like a blueish gray drybrushed with white/very pale gray...
My own ones are painted with an earth colour, overbrushed with bone/white, as I recall... I think both solutions are viable, as I've seen both sandy-coloured and white buildings on film....
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No problem with your questions. If at anytime you want a more detailed description drop me a PM.
I think you can be fairly safe with painting Adobe neutral shades or even plain white as it will look ok for any theatre. My only observation is sometimes the middle eastern ones have a domed roof which would necessitate a different design, but other than that go with whatever you like. After all its only representational and its a look you are aiming for. We are making stylised models, not architectural ones. :)
The main thing to consider is making sure the baseboards and the terrain that you play on matches your choice of colours on the buildings as invariably the buildings are built from mud bricks cut from the ground. So I always paint the whole model including the base in the same colour and try to use terrain boards/cloth that are the same or very similar. I think that helps to anchor the buildings to the terrain and make it look natural.
I use a sand colour as the initial baseocat/undercoat by Humbrol but recently found a good colour match at my local Homebase(DIY store)
I then wash a raw umber brown mix from a tube of artists acrylic paint around the bottom of the building where the walls touch the ground, to represent dirt, dampness etc.
Next I take GW Bleached bone and use a fairly wet brush and liberally work the paint in leaving the brown wash along the bottom and some of the sand shade showing through finishing with the bone colour covering all the sand shade at the top/roof area.
Next I repeat the process with white, heavily worked in at the top and roof only and gradually shaded in to about half way own the walls.
What you end up with is brown into sand, into bone into white.
Next I paint all exposed wood in Raw Umber and drybrush with bleached bone to give that sunbleached look.
The base is textured with sand and highlighted with bone and white to blend in.
Its an interesting question regards the size of the base. Some people make the building to fit the base and others make the base later to fit the size of the building. (You may think that sounds silly but I remember reading an article about Herb Gundt an incredible terrain builder in the States and he always said he made his models/bases to fit whatever box he had on hand to store them in at the time.)
Some do not base buildings at all. I like to just to protect the model from getting broken. Its suprisingly tough once rendered, but fragile balsa wood balconies, window sills etc can get chipped off.
I don' think it matters what you do, I leave a slight overhang with just enough area to stand a based figure on. Just remember if you have any parts of the model that are more fragile (Like the balcony on my recent model) make the baseboard bigger as this will help prevent the model getting knocked or broken in transit or storage. You don't want overhanging bits that get broken off because the model slides around in a box and is not proteced by a wider base.
The flagstones are all individuallycut to fit from plain thin plastic card.
I used a sheet of Wills plastic flooring for larger areas and then copied the pattern for the small areas around doors with individual tiles..
I started with thin card cut to about 1cm square, then took each one and cut it to different shapes as I glued them onto the model, trying to roughly replicate the pattern on the existing plastic sheet.So its totally random and looks time consuming, but actually was quite fun to do and took about an hour at most.
I wouldn't model opening doors unless you want to, its only my personal preference as I dont model the interior.
As to your comment about the Spackle. You can't go far wrong by slapping it on with a palette knife and deciding how rough you want the render to be. Thinned with water then sanded down once dry gives a smooth texture. For a rough look go with the Spackle straight from the tub. Neither is right or wrong, its up to you how you want it to look.
I am no expert on this and there are others out there who make stuff that surpases my talents. I have just applied techniques I have experimented with and adapted them to suit my style.
If you haven't got them already the Gary Chalk plans for building Adobe buildings as featured in Wargames Illustrated are excellent and show the step by step process. Somebone on this forum kindly emailed them to me yesterday as I wanted to see how they compared to mine. I can forward them onto you if you like.
I hope that helps, PM me if you need any other help. Looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labour. :)
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I appreciate all the advice and the time that goes into it - thank you everyone. :)
I am a bit anal in the way that I like to meticulously plan everything and know exactly what I have to do to accomplish something - even the most simplest of projects. Sometimes seeing everyones great work makes your own efforts seem paltry - but they do inspire me to at least try. I guess I need to let my hair down a bit and give it all a go - it is supposed to be fun after all!
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I appreciate all the advice and the time that goes into it - thank you everyone. :)
I am a bit anal in the way that I like to meticulously plan everything and know exactly what I have to do to accomplish something - even the most simplest of projects. Sometimes seeing everyones great work makes your own efforts seem paltry - but they do inspire me to at least try. I guess I need to let my hair down a bit and give it all a go - it is supposed to be fun after all!
Exactly, whats the worst thing that can happen? You make one and see how it looks. IF you are not happy throw it away. So you will have lost a bit of your time, and a few pennies worth of materials, but you will have learnt an awful lot in the process. Go for it! :)
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AND it's probably going to turn out all right.
I've often stalled from starting a project on the same reasons, but it's amazing how easy it is to make something look quite good with some plaster and paint. So go for it! :)
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Other than plain steel, I don't think it gets much simpler than adobe. Unless you go for a really weatherbeaten look, where the surfacing is all crumbling and the basic bricks are starting to show, a simple plaster/pollyfilla/spackle/whatever coat over your wall material should do it. Just try to keep it reasonably fine grained for scale and you should be able to turn out a village in no time. Watch it around window and door openings, though. Try not to let it look too rounded on the edges. I think it detracts from a realistic look in such a small structure.