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Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Mathias Corvinus on September 29, 2014, 06:50:32 AM

Title: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on September 29, 2014, 06:50:32 AM
Does the estimable Mr Peers ever grace these shores with a visit? Can anyone else shed some light?

Caveat: I may be reading it wrong, but...

The roll to hit for shooting is 10 on a d10,

Bows are mentioned as longer ranged than muskets etc, but have -1 to hit at longer than 6" range.

Since there is no way I can find to get a positive modifier on this, doesn't that make any shot I've 6" impossible?

It also makes the penetration penalty of an additional -1 rather pointless, since the -1 for cover would also render the shot futile....
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: TheWeasel on September 30, 2014, 02:50:32 AM
Hello!

I just got a copy of the rules, and have run into many similar questions myself.

It does appear that a single bonus of +1 to shooting scores is give to models with the Sharpshooter skill/trait, in which case, only they would have much of a chance at range.

Similarly, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on to the meaning of the points in list building. It appears that you just kind of take a force, within the organizational limits, but certain traits and equipment can cost you points. Would you then ensure that both sides spend rough equivalent in additional skills and weapons? Is there a rough cost for additional sea men, so that forces balance with unequal numbers but also differences in gear?
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on September 30, 2014, 01:35:01 PM
I had hoped that the Sharpshooter skill would be the answer, but it only applies to Arquebus and Musket!

Now, I know one might say "well, in your games, just allow the skill to be used for bows", and I am capable of doing just that, however, I have paid money for someone else to have figured that out and included it in the rules, and, moreover, it makes me doubt my own reading of the core rules as correct!

As to points, it appears that you just choose a basic crew and then add whatever points the scenario allows in terms of extra men and skills...

However, there was apparently insufficient room to include any scenarios so what those extra points should be and when we might apply them is left to our discretion. There are however more than twenty six half page illustrations and three full page pictures, a paltry few of which may have been dropped allowing scenarios to have been included.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: olyreed on September 30, 2014, 02:15:44 PM
I was considering these rules but there seems to be a few negative reviews. Are they really that bad?
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on September 30, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
On the contrary, they are very clever and neat in many aspects.

Off the back of getting them, I'm tempted to get my group back into Talking Like Pirates and even develop a faction list for Roman Marines and the Mediterranean Pirates they hunted!

All of which makes the omissions and lack of clarity all the more confusing!
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: charla51 on September 30, 2014, 03:56:35 PM
I'm afraid that from past experience, "Chris Peers" is a name that immediately puts me off buying this rule set.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: coggon on October 01, 2014, 03:34:05 PM
I'm afraid that from past experience, "Chris Peers" is a name that immediately puts me off buying this rule set.

I would generally agree with that, but I bought them anyway based on a friends recommendation-have not played them yet, but am intrigued by what I have read.  The fear/greed dynamic/mechanic is a really different concept and well worth the $10 I paid for the Kindle version.   Yes, they leave lots to the imagination, but I enjoy more open-ended rules.  The only quibble that I have with the rules is that they allow black powder weapons to fire every turn.  I'm going to try them with  "one turn to reload" and see how that works.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: TheWeasel on October 01, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
The only quibble that I have with the rules is that they allow black powder weapons to fire every turn.

I agree that it seems like a lot of shooting, but on reflection, and given the 1 in 10 chance of actually hitting anything, it probably balances just as well. To play devil's advocate here, one could argue that the low probability of causing shooting casualties reflects not only marksmanship, but also addresses the question of loading skill. Perhaps the "sharpshooter" skill is as much about being well-drilled in loading...

But again, that's a bit of devil's advocate. The part of the rules I was most interested in was how they handled ship to ship action and movement. I'll likely use those portions to fill out some other rulesets I use more commonly...
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on October 01, 2014, 05:15:44 PM
There is a trend developing in this kind of mid-price rules writing to fall back on the "it's your game now / if you don't like a rule change it / we'll leave that to your imagination" defence whenever a rule is queried or an omission noted.

While I can write my own rules and have, I BUY rules so that I don't have to!

The, albeit probably rather meagre, payment given to rules writers should be for doing some work on making the rules comprehensible and workable. Throwing a bunch of untested ideas at a page is the easy bit! As they say, we could all do that.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: coggon on October 01, 2014, 05:44:09 PM
I agree that it seems like a lot of shooting, but on reflection, and given the 1 in 10 chance of actually hitting anything

I think its a 1/10 chance of killing someone, and you get the "knockback" on an 8 or 9? 

Mathias-I am a lazy git lol that issues with authority  lol lol, so I enjoy using other people's ideas and making them "better" (for me at least)  :D ;)

Like I said, given what I paid, I am quite happy.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on October 01, 2014, 09:25:57 PM
All that being said, I found the Greed/Fear mechanism and the integration of fire vs ships with normal combat intriguing and very interesting and I can't wait to try them out!

I couldn't find the bit about getting knocked back on a 8 or 9...where did you get that?

I have no problem with the thing about black powder weapons firing every turn. If everyone is using them, relatively speaking, they are the standard. This means a turn includes time to load by default, and faster weapons (bows) can get multiple shots, while really slow loading weapons (cannon) aren't relegated to a "once per game" rate of fire.

Also it cuts down on "paperwork" or counter-clutter, remembering who fired when.

And another thing..., (Victor Meldrew voice)

The ranges are so short, you'll be lucky to get off one shot, before some Jolly Jack Tar is having at you with the business end of a boat-hook, or weighing-in with a belaying Pin!


Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: coggon on October 02, 2014, 10:17:57 AM
I couldn't find the bit about getting knocked back on a 8 or 9...where did you get that?

There exists a VERY strong possibility that I either dreamt it, or misread something somewhere. :?  Not really sure, but I thought I saw it on a thread here somewhere.  But I'm still looking-I'll let you know if I find it.  Deepest Apologies.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: charla51 on October 02, 2014, 12:50:56 PM
It's one thing READING a rules set and finding some of the concepts "interesting". But it's quite another thing applying those rules in PLAY. Often, the mis-match is gaping.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Smith on October 02, 2014, 01:31:33 PM
There exists a VERY strong possibility that I either dreamt it, or misread something somewhere. :?  Not really sure, but I thought I saw it on a thread here somewhere.  But I'm still looking-I'll let you know if I find it.  Deepest Apologies.

No, you're right - it's in the 'Resolving Shooting' section (p.30-31): 10 = hit, 9-8 = fall-back (or, with Sharpshooter, 9-10 = hit, 7-8 = fall-back).

Regarding building a crew, all factions can simply take additional figures - they're in the 'Extras' of the lists. As outlined at the start of the Faction Lists on p.53, the points represent additional resources that can be added to expand from the 'basic faction' of c.15 figures and give more flavour to a crew. There are some 18-point lists available on the Osprey Wargames resources page (see my signature) as examples of how to build a crew using the North Star sets.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: coggon on October 02, 2014, 02:08:35 PM
Thank you Smith for restoring my faith in my own sanity  lol
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Mathias Corvinus on October 02, 2014, 04:24:36 PM
Yeah, sorry, got it now. Perhaps the way it is written as 8 or 9 being a hit from Cannon at close range, made me think he was talking about Cannons! More fool me, that I didn't notice the sentence underneath where it talks about EVERY other sort of missile weapon...

Why not just say "8 or 9 is counted as a fall-back except for cannon within 8" when it is a hit"?
...Maybe up near where it says 10 is a hit?

Sour grapes over, looks like my question has been answered. Many Thanks Gentlemen!
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: olyreed on October 09, 2014, 07:42:31 AM
Got these rules yesterday, 3.50 from Northstar , they seem fine so far (not finished reading them). The only thing I was suprised by was the short range of arquebus and muskets.
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: Hu Rhu on October 09, 2014, 08:21:55 AM
Only 3.50!!  What deal was that?
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: olyreed on October 09, 2014, 08:41:48 AM
They some for 3.50 because they were water damaged, when it arrived yesterday there really was nothing wrong with it, I dont know if they have any more for sale. It may be worth going through there twitter feed on the site, thats where I saw it. Just jad a quick look and its still on there in their bargins, which it was :)
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: fastolfrus on November 12, 2014, 11:04:29 PM
Looking at starting up a campaign at school.

Does anyone here play the campaign rules?

If so, what map did you use - the one from the book enlarged or did you just draw your own?

Mr Smith - a PDF campaign map might be a good addition to the Osprey downloads page....
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: TheWeasel on November 13, 2014, 05:28:13 PM
I am in the process of preparing a campaign to play with a friend. I was planning on making my own map, mainly because I enjoy calligraphy and cartography; their map is pretty good, I just want the fun of making one...
Title: Re: On The Seven Seas Rules Questions
Post by: fastolfrus on November 13, 2014, 06:16:39 PM
Perhaps, but I've got a dozen teenagers to fit into the campaign.