Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Mick_in_Switzerland on October 05, 2014, 05:08:20 PM
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I just got an email from Perry Miniatures.
The Perry Archers for Agincourt are already moulded.
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/English_Archer_samples.jpg)
Here is the sprue
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/full_archer_sprue.jpg)
Tooling has started for the Men at Arms. The finished set should be ready by Christmas.
Mick
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Oh .... urm, I hate to say it, but I was expecting better. These look kind of stiff.
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I have to agree.
Considering what we have seen in the past these do pale a bit in comparison :?
Perhaps it's the lack of separate torsos.
Useful for converting none the less :)
cheers
James
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The relatively static poses make sense to me considering what bowmen were supposed to do most of the time on a battlefield - i.e stand and fire rather than saunter about. More animated poses could have been potentially weird in an Old Glory 'hey Steve' kind of way.
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For 50p each they look grand to me. I look forward to picking mine up.
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Blimey, they've certainly fast-tracked these. From first announcement to likely release date in barely 6 months. Unlike the 18 months - two years it will have taken for all the other medieval sets to reach the shelves.
I rather like them. They are perhaps a tad static compared to the other Perry medieval sets, but I guess we have to remember this is the first Medieval plastic set by Alan, rather than by Michael. I know we all tend to think of the Perrys as a single entity, but they do actually have slightly different styles.
Also worth remembering that many of the existing WOTR longbow (and other) arm pairs will be usable with these as well, giving even more variety.
And also, this is only half the box - bring on the men-at-arms :)
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I like these. I can see why the torsos and legs are all one piece, given the stuff they are wearing.
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Had the privilege of seeing these at close hand yesterday - and they are very good IMHO - very convincing line of bowmen when assembled (plus the obvious conversion potential, as mentioned).
Good news on the 'fast tracking'.
Simon.
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Not bad, but as others have said they are archers so fairly static. I'm looking forward to seeing the men at arms.
Although I've just gone and bought some of their WoTR figures... ;D
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It's not the firing poses I have an issue with, it's the others. Perhaps it's the way they've been put together for the photos, but there's an ugly join at the shoulder and the angles the arms are at look ... awkward.
They're by no means bad models and as always the Perry twins are providing good value for money, but with such a high standard having been set previously, these don't quite match up for me.
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Worth bearing in mind that the newsletter does mention that these are the first test of the mould, and there are still tweaks to be made. Hopefully they'll get that odd shoulder fit sorted out - otherwise, I really quite like them, and can't wait to see the Men at Arms.
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What Creaky said : the figures above were assembled from a test sprue, probably to detect potential snags. The Perry newsletter makes it clear these aren't the final product.
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Well, fingers crossed the small creases get ironed out then.
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Heard these were made for a Agincourt diorama the Imperial War Museum commissioned. Making it with plastics with the subtile differences of poses makes sence. In that case it's not surprising they were fasttracked. 2015 is the 600th anniversary after all.
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They're fine by me - they'll only get spoilt by my painting anyway.
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I like the ones they made for foundry in metal better...
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Oh .... urm, I hate to say it, but I was expecting better. These look kind of stiff.
I'm glad that I was not the only one to be slightly disappointed... I guess we shall see.
It's not the firing poses I have an issue with, it's the others. Perhaps it's the way they've been put together for the photos,
but there's an ugly join at the shoulder and the angles the arms are at look ... awkward.
Now I love the WOTR figures, but I personally did find that the various arms do not always have the best fit to the torsos in the Bill &
Bows set- you do really have to spend some time trying different options to get the best out of them, and the few poses that were
illustrated in the 'instructions' were a bit iffy with the fitting. It is a similar story with the Desert Rats box too IMHO.
I still really like the Perry stuff though.
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I believe they look convincing enough once arrayed for battle :
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Archer_line.jpg)
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Yep - they look like 'yeomen of England'!
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Looking forward to seeing some painted :)
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Impressive bunch of archers !
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I think it's a shame that some have criticised these as I think they are very good, a huge amount of thought goes into making sets like this, and one thing I think the Perry's don't make mistakes with is posing, having used a longbow a lot I can say all of those poses are possible, and being muti part some combinations are bound to look nicer than others.
It is also clear that they have put the more static options in this box because the English received the charge at Agincourt, and as they have pointed out the French box will be more dynamic, so between the two boxes they should please everyone, as you need static troops too if you want to tell a story.
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hmmm....
I wouldn't know what should be shameful in criticizing a product. After all people mostly expressed what they did not like and even compared it to thze Perry brothers earlier work.
After all, since when are they above any criticism?
useful criticism almost always means to improve something, and I can not find destructive one....
customers are entitled to their oppinion about what they are supposed to pay money for
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That's cool. I gave my opinion. Steely gave theirs. former user gave his. Now I've given mine again.
And it continues.
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What has been shown so far, of the Men at Arms intended for this set looks brilliant.
...Now they just need to get on with a box or two of Feudal/Crusades Knights and Men at Arms... ;D
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My wallet is crying.. Again. :D
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Can't wait to get my hands on these, they look good to me.
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Just had a look at the Perry site, it seems the English Army set is pencilled in for "around christmas time".
I wonder if that means "just in the nick of time for chrimbo" or "in the last week of december"? Either way, someone's getting new toys... lol
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They do look really good.... :-*
I believe they look convincing enough once arrayed for battle :
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Archer_line.jpg)
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Add me to the list of "good, but not great". They look fine and I'd gladly buy and use them, but they definitely didn't trigger my giddy "gamer" response like some things. You know that feeling, when all of your other possessions quake at the thought of meeting their demise via ebay so you can justify starting another project....
PS: How much difference would there be (body-wise) with the French set - which they note will be more "active"? Does this mean buy a box of each and head swaps would give you more dynamic archer units on the move, and then a set of steady archers in block?
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PS: How much difference would there be (body-wise) with the French set - which they note will be more "active"? Does this mean buy a box of each and head swaps would give you more dynamic archer units on the move, and then a set of steady archers in block?
I guess so. Mixing and matching always provides the best result. A single set is always going to have its limitations.
That said, I'm reserving judgement until I see the English men-at-arms frame which I'm sure will be more 'active' and less static.
As I say though, I think if you look at the previous plastic output of the respective Perrys, it may just be that Alan prefers a slightly more regimented stylised look (see his Naploeonic, AWI and ACW sets), whereas Michael likes a more dynamic, varied, skirmishing look (see his WOTR, WW2 and Sudan sets).
Different strokes :)
Still think it's going to be a brilliant set. Can't wait.
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These will be out for Christmas!
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(https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fJduQvta12_HxoFz5lpqBVseut8aTWB50fN5kEsx36M2r6DoyAamRay0b1EBtLwOJUjB_B_m_zDuAo2Ck4HxAqL58fb3g3VbdB0ZAa1dwL0857nFQzUKC2sFIa273gIu8t2upa4KkXO4wnwWmEw76Z0NHxpeTn5mZMeDqgw=s0-d-e1-ft#https://gallery.mailchimp.com/96342586a188d41026c9abb55/images/1b7606ca-e5ab-4786-b7df-36b5eb710425.jpg)
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Found this on a german blogside (directly from nottigham): (https://tabletopdeutschland.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/english-longbowmen-03.jpg)
(https://tabletopdeutschland.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/english-longbowmen-01.jpg)
But is only one of two sprues...Should be out before christmas, but the 23rd of december is still before christmas, I think ;)
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"Dear Santa, This year i have been a very good boy, so I would like to receive on the 25th...."
:)
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In some houses, Christmas lasts for 12 days....
Just think how many boxes could arrive (and by the twelth day you'd even have some assembled, based, undercoated....)
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by the twelth day you'd even have some assembled, based, undercoated....
What? After 12 days you are unlikely to have got further than opening the box and looking at the shiny flag sheet! lol
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The painted examples and box art look excellent...and now find i need a box of them when they are released :)... Also now wondering what other engagements could they be used for ???
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12 days of christmas is the reason for "Texas Chainsaw massacre", I think... ;)
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The painted figures look nice. Waiting to see the foot knights, although I don't think we'll be disappointed. ;)
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Hmm and I didn´t even know that I should start a 100years war... lol
Those Perrys know their stuff...
Any one dares to take a wild guess when we can se some frenchies or some mounted troopes ?
Could wery well be a project to start this spring me thinks.
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The painted figures look nice. Waiting to see the foot knights, although I don't think we'll be disappointed. ;)
If you look at the Perry's website you can see what the foot knights look like, pretty superb methinks. o_o
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/d/Agincourt_MatA.jpg
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/d/Agin_MaA_3_revised.jpg
Aargh! I wish I hadn't looked, I don't want another army yet ;D
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dang it! Just when I thought my wallet would be safe for the month.
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Any one dares to take a wild guess when we can se some frenchies or some mounted troopes ?
I would guess somewhere between now and October 25th 2015... ;)
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have to get some!
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I would guess somewhere between now and October 25th 2015... ;)
Hmm then its no way I will have time to finish of all my half-finished project until then... I guess I have to start yet another then. :D
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I would guess somewhere between now and October 25th 2015... ;)
Salute is in April 2015, I think there is a good chance before October 2015 lol
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I think so too, seeing the speed with which the English are making their way to release. Before or at Salute is a good expectation, I think.
But you have to admit that after October 25th next year interest in Agincourt loses some of its immediacy... :D
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Just got this in the mail, and they look so good i think :-*
"English Men at Arms frame back from Renedra!
We've just got the first shots of the Men at Arms for the English Army( Agincourt
to Orleans) frame back from Renedra. They have done a great job once again! We've
got more examples and the frame up on the plastic workbench. These together with
the archers will be available mid December.
All the best
Alan"
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Men_at_arms_frame.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/samples_English_Mta_1.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Samples_English_Mta_2.jpg)
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:-*
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Shame about the fixed heads, but I can't see how else they could have done it... They look blinking fantastic.
:-*
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The basic figures are splendid, indeed. Not too sure about the visors and orles, though, they look, well, stuck on. Hope that's just lazy assembly. ;)
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Splendid :-* :-* :-*
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:o :-* Oh dear, there goes my christmas money.... :
I would have liked a bit more options for the Men at arms, but the French are yet to come and Perry's kit is always kitbash-friendly, so I'm not worried. :)
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I guess the Arms will be mix-able with those from the WotR Set?
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There's enough subtle variety between the torsos that with addition of the different arms I don't think they will be bad at all :)
cheers
James
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I guess the Arms will be mix-able with those from the WotR Set?
not really my field of specialty, but if we take "Agincourt-Orleans" seriously (1415-1428), the 25 years to the WotR might not really work.
also technically, the very elaborate late medieval shoulder guards might not go well over the earlier mail coif skirts (no idea about the tabard overcoats....)
and then also comes frequently the "use of old armour" thing, 25 years without rusting or medieval recycling... I don't know
anyway, I might be wrong, so always happy to learn something new?
speaking of which: how are the french supposed to look different?
edit: forgot to remark that the MaA look much better than the archers....
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not really my field of specialty, but if we take "Agincourt-Orleans" seriously (1415-1428), the 25 years to the WotR might not really work.
also technically, the very elaborate late medieval shoulder guards might not go well over the earlier mail coif skirts (no idea about the tabard overcoats....)
and then also comes frequently the "use of old armour" thing, 25 years without rusting or medieval recycling... I don't know
anyway, I might be wrong, so always happy to learn something new?
speaking of which: how are the french supposed to look different?
edit: forgot to remark that the MaA look much better than the archers....
While mashing them with the WotR era stuff might not wowork historically, for those of us doing slightly fantasy stuff it will be nice.
I believe the French will have less white armour and more tabards.
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in the Fantasy Genre, of course
http://youtu.be/N1H9eKWPGRo
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An Agincourt vintage suit of armour would be pretty elderly by even the beginning of the WOTR, but having said that, there were several different sizes of wallet available then as now, and not everyone could afford the latest kit. You might get a younger son wearing their father's (or even grandfather's) old suit, or a poorer man at arms who has had to buy second hand, in the same way that people sometimes drive pretty old cars. Old armour is a lot better than none, after all.
By the end of the WOTR, 1485, I'd be surprised to hear of anyone in a suit of armour 60+ years old, but then again I suppose anything's possible.
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Sa-WEET!
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I will say that I am majorly excited by this set. 1 box is enough for an entire Lion Rampant army, and I just so happen to be starting that since I had a most excellent demonstration of the game this weekend at Horisont.
If I mix in a few of the WoTR (anakronistic heresy!) I have, that should be enough for 2 armies.
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Now available for pre-order with the usual three-box deal and freebie miniature for you big spenders out there :
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/Henry%20deal.jpg)
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=3217 (http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=3217)
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Damn, that Henry V is great! Shame it only comes with the deal.
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ordered a box will use it for Stark archers for GoT
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Shame they're not metal!
Cheers,
Paul
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Do I need three boxes, don't I need three boxes. Does Henry look nice and shy, yes!
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Going back to the subject of old armour
"By the end of the WOTR, 1485, I'd be surprised to hear of anyone in a suit of armour 60+ years old, but then again I suppose anything's possible."
I was in Bangladesh recently and many soldiers and security guards had Lee Enfield rifles that were probably made in 1939-45.
I have just seen a photo on BBC of an Indian soldier with a Bren Gun - also a WW2 weapon.
http://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-30226487
The Alteszeughaus (Old County Armoury) in Solithurn has hundreds of breastplates and helmets from the 1500s.
The town kept large war stocks and the armoury is now a museum.
They also have hundreds of Napoleonic muskets and WW1 and WW2 rifles on display.
I think armour was very valuable and would have been preserved and repaired and reused.
60 years old was probably not unusual.
The "throw away" society is less than 50 years old.
Mick
Mick
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armour was valuable, true, but in Your examples You compare apples and pears.
first of all, different periods, then, different social organization and different purpose of the weapons.
have You considered why we have a record of the HYW armour mostly from artistic evidence (paintings and grave sculpture) whereas so many WotR era armour sets (and of course later) have survived in armouries?
too many aspects to discuss actually
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I think armour was very valuable and would have been preserved and repaired and reused.
I think you're right Mick.
There's documentary / pictorial evidence that late-Elizabethan era burgonets were still being worn during the English Civil War. These would be 50-odd year old pieces of armour. In which case, is it so far-fetched to suggest that someone who wore armour at Orleans in 1429 might have worn it again - or perhaps passed it onto his son to wear - at St Albans in 1455? Provided it's well looked after, armour can last a lifetime and well beyond - which is how we still have hundreds of thousands of examples of centuries-old medieval armour in museum collections all across Europe and beyond.
No doubt the very wealthy would want the latest armour style and technology, and could afford to change their full 'white' harness every few years. But the common soldier was probably happy with whatever serviceable helmet and back-and-breast he could lay his hands on, if it might help preserve his life on the battlefield...
Anyway, speculation aside, I've ordered my box. Can't wait :)
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Yes, I can only speculate.
I wonder if someone could recommend some comprehensive armour book that would help illuminate the different socio-economic role of armour (the fighting role is obvious) through the periods.
As to the fighting: I wonder, since WotR armour was so much more elaborate, fluted, light, compact and covering all around - as to reflect the improved necessity of protection (or other reasons?), how this would reflect on 25 year old armour that was less elaborate and covering and relying more on chainmail, and heavier (and probably less elaborate metallurgy?). Would someone really take upon him the disadvantages of a full suit of this kind or rather prefer a less armoured role, but with few modern quality plate pieces? I am not that familiar with the changes in weapon characteristics and penetration power during the 25 years. I would however doubt that armour got better for fancy reasons?
all of these speculations in absence of real knowledge in this case....
here is btw a nice systematic typology of helmets
(http://www.medievalwarfare.info/photos/helms.jpg)
what I know for sure is that after the decline of the armoured knight role in battle (cost? mobility?), armour production went down the hill in quality (apart from what the wealthy could afford) up to the TYW and ECW. a late elizabethan era burgonet would therefore be superior in quality whereas it's function wouldn't have changed much. In lack of specialist armoury expertise, I am inclined towards "context matters" ;-)
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Blimey former user, that looks useful. Nicked!
I believe the French will have less white armour and more tabards.
Might wait for those for my own fantasy ideas. I'm too influenced by The (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/4/4a/Komarck_Gregor_Clegane_FFG.jpg/350px-Komarck_Gregor_Clegane_FFG.jpg) Mountain (http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/shop/index.php/miniatures/george-r-r-martin-masterworks/ser-gregor-clegane-the-mountain.html).
It's gonna be a hard wait, though. The white armoured guys are spiffy. I could start on some Lannisters, maybe.
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I think old armour would have been extant, but it would have been modernised, for poor nobility they would have had it adjusted, and maybe put some new bits on it, so you could use these new bodies with some bits from the wtor sets,
if you want to use both sets a 1440s hyw army would have seen most of these styles on the field at once, including the archers, that would give some real variation!
If you want pictures of this the osprey book for the siege or Orleans illustrated by graham turner, shows armets sallets and bacinets all on the same battlefield and that was by 1429
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Yes indeed. Also in Graham Turner's plates for David Nicolle's 'The Fall of English France' (1447 - 1453), which again depicts the crossover between styles of armour. (Graham Turner is one of the leading experts on Medieval arms, armour and combat around - http://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/Graham_Turner.html).
It's the classic 'wargamer's-eye view' to think there would have been a hard cut-off in styles of armour mid-way between the end of the Hundred Years War and the start of the Wars of The Roses.
These wars were part of a single historical continuum, separated by little more than two decades. During that brief lull, all sorts of local and regional hostilities continued. Warfare didn't stop.
Just because we wargamers have mentally categorised them as two separate 'periods', doesn't mean everybody stopped using one set of kit and switched to a completely different look overnight. Like most trends in technology and fashion, it would have been a gradual evolution.
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I read somewhere that the cost of a full set of plate was equivalent to the cost of a farm so you can imagine that only the very wealthy would have had the disposable income to have bought a new harness just because of fashion. Armour also takes a while to be made as you can imagine so in an emergency such as a civil war (rather than a planned military campaign in france for instance) there isn't the time to visit flanders, southern germany or northern italy to have them measure you up and get the armour made from scratch. You would have to use what was available at the time and if it happened to be daddies set then it's better than going into battle without anything on!
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the graham turner links are very useful information, THX a lot.
I shall be curious to see how the combination of the two periods as chosen by the Perry release turns out to represent the continuum of the material culture ;)
I am sure they will be magnificently painted
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Armour also takes a while to be made as you can imagine so in an emergency such as a civil war (rather than a planned military campaign in france for instance) there isn't the time to visit flanders, southern germany or northern italy to have them measure you up and get the armour made from scratch.
They had wax or plaster casts made of their various body parts and these were sent to the armourer, who would then make the armour to fit those. If you put on weight, grew taller, or whatever, you had new models made. Of course such a bespoke service cost a fair bit of money.
Local armourers could of course produce armour in 'the style of' the fashionable centres of production, but these were also usually areas where the steel used was of superior quality too, which could not be mimicked so well. Some 'off the peg' armour, which we have come to term 'munition' quality, was actually made from iron or very poor steel (even by the standards of the day).
I always prefer to link the price of armour with buying a car. There are the top of the range Lamborghinis, Ferraris and Porsches, the mid-range Lexus, BMW and Jaguars, various family saloons and hatchbacks and of course the knackered old second or third-hand bangers. The comparative prices for these today are approximately equivalent to the cost of armour in the middle ages in real terms.
A lot of old armour was handed down, gifted or sold and re-modelled, which is why it is common to see archers etc. in the 1450s wearing c.1390 'knights' bascinets with the visors removed. The obvious problem with hand-me-down steel suits, brigandines and the like, is that they may be too small, which occasionally results in the mention in muster rolls of people who had items but were "unable to wear it".
It's the classic 'wargamer's-eye view' to think there would have been a hard cut-off in styles of armour mid-way between the end of the Hundred Years War and the start of the Wars of The Roses... snip ... it would have been a gradual evolution.
You know you're beginning to sound like me? lol
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Thought I'd add my 10p!
David et Bethsabee tapestry, Flanders, executed in the 1520's, here a variety of styles and ages of armour are represented in a group of cavalry, there is absolutely no doubt that older armour prevailed for as long as it offered protection and remained of use;
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/1200x/2c/33/60/2c336098dbba12f7623dd38b2eb2ebe1.jpg)
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no, I don't think 16th C tapestries fulfill documentary function about 15th C warfare
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Aww shucks, there goes my light cavalry boxed set !
The example used was religious rather than reportage / depiction of war one might find in a wood cut or drawing but in that while series contemporary fashions are depicted so why go to the bother of depicting lighter armed / lower standing cavalry in older armour?
It's a religious subject but the depiction in contemporary style was executed to demonstrate the current resonance of the message.
Other tapestries are indeed depictive of the era they represent or a gaudy almost fantasy depiction of the subject so caution is necessary.
As an aside it's something I've wondered about tombs in the Tudor era which depict knights in much older armour; is this because that's what they wore, or to depict them in their prime or because it was the only style the sculptor could do - was it relevant to the sculptor to accurately depict the armour if the deceased or just to use any style to indicate to the beholder that there lies a noble knight?
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Sorry to go off period, I just meant that the practice continued, or rather I believe it did.
I'll get back in my box
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there is no universal explanation for that
as a general line, artists would either depict what they knew and had seen (if they were interested in accuracy of any kind), or invent fantasy costume. with the revived interest for antiquity from 15th C on, artists might strive to do better research, if the artefacts in question would be available.
So, for depicting medieval battles, the armoury collections would be a point of reference, for antiquity it would be sculpture collections.
for earlier artists, I can only speculate - if they would not see actual war, they would see processions and tournaments. In manuscript illuminations of the middle ages, knights have often attire that was worn in tournaments only, in spite of war being depicted
EDIT: I don't see any wrong in a decent discussion :)
in the example You are showing, the artist probably consulted the same collections of elaborate armour we have access to nowadays
I had hoped someone with real armour knowledge could have brought some light to this interesting subject. I however suspect, that Alan and Michael Perry, prolific reenactors of the late medieval period for many years, have a very thorough knowledge of this period in particular, so probably had good reason to choose these distinct period-sets for different boxes. Again speculation, but I would expect that combination of evolving armour pieces would rather run along the styles that were evolving in this particular time, and not necessarily along age aspects
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I would assume so - since during WotR witnessed the extinction of many nobility lineages, the ascendant families would probably have felt the desire to retro-root their social status
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I would assume so - since during WotR witnessed the extinction of many nobility lineages, the ascendant families would probably have felt the desire to retro-root their social status
There were not so many as popularly believed. The noble family extinction rate was not significantly higher during the WotR than before or after it.
As for tombs, one of the reasons for antiquated armour was that the effigys could be bought many years before the death of the person. 15th Century people were a practical lot and were also quite accepting that death could come at any time. It was not uncommon therefore to have your tomb, plot, or whatever, all bought and paid for as soon as you could afford it.
The Tudors themselves promoted their 'regal' lineage when they could be seen as little more than successful bandits.
All aristocracy were little more than successful bandits if you go back far enough. ;)
The point is a fair one though... certainly the following century, the efforts of the 'nouveau riche' to to give their freshly granted right to bear coats of arms some 'history', is frankly embarassing.
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not more or less embarassing than any attempt to justify power through nobility.....
(oh, sorry, I just realised in Britain this is political.... but I would prefer constitutional monarchy anytime ;))
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Imagine armour would have been used as long as it was useful enough to protect the wearer in combat but imagine fashions both in terms of looks would have dictated some of the rapid changes in styles in the 15th Century.
Armour was designed to protect the individual who wore it first and foremost in combat and all of the features seen in a full harness were all part of this design process. I imagine poorer nobles would have worn armour from previous generations if it fitted and was serviceable enough to be worn on the field.
Armour was however part of social display that expressed status and standing within society and the wealthier nobles would no doubt have tried to keep up with changes in styles and fashions of the day...so they 'looked the part' both on and off the field. I cannot however see anything wrong in using some of these armoured foot miniatures in early Wars of the Roses scenarios and maybe even some of the later ones
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You are of course correct and social display was a principle factor in those who could afford it buying the latest styles. There would also appear to have been a mini-industry in 're-fashioning' items to approximate the latest styles too... a sort of 'bootleg' designer armour market.
I do have visions of the more stylish chevaliers mocking those who were unable to afford the latest fashions though. ;)
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Medieval military costume, Embleton; image of landsknecht captain in 1480's harness, ' this example is perhaps a little old fashioned for 1515, but for all but the very rich armour that still functioned and fitted was too valuable to be discarded for mere fashion.'
Again a later period but the notion is relevant.
I think as wargamers we are fed a notion that periods were distinctly seperate. Numerous sources state that the majority of the field at Flodden wore armour of their forbears, in the case of the Scots some very old armour.
Think not only about wealth but also status; a man at arms, retainer, yeoman, light to medium cavalry, all are likely to feature some older pieces.
It seems bizarre to consider that all of the knights at agincourt wore white harness or indeed all of the foot knights at Flodden were in Maximilian harness.
Sorry to labour a point over and beyond a great new boxed set but I say mix them up a bit for a more convincing feel.
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Sorry to labour a point over and beyond a great new boxed set but I say mix them up a bit for a more convincing feel.
Amen :)
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Sorry to labour a point over and beyond a great new boxed set but I say mix them up a bit for a more convincing feel.
yes please!
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Just got this in the mail, and they look so good i think :-*
"English Men at Arms frame back from Renedra!
We've just got the first shots of the Men at Arms for the English Army( Agincourt
to Orleans) frame back from Renedra. They have done a great job once again! We've
got more examples and the frame up on the plastic workbench. These together with
the archers will be available mid December.
All the best
Alan"
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Men_at_arms_frame.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/samples_English_Mta_1.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/banners/Samples_English_Mta_2.jpg)
Might try going for my 1492 Reconquista project agian with these...!!!
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Might try going for my 1492 Reconquista project agian with these...!!!
*Off Topic* That would make a great thread and one which I would be very interested in following... I might even be able to dig up some info myself to add to it if I can find any.
:)
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Just seen on facebook these are now classed as released
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Aye, had an e-mail saying my box is dispatched. :D
I noticed that on the site there was a comment about using the WoTR arms to add greater variety and bridge the gap into the 1440's.
Just to upset everyone though, how early could these figures be used? I'm assuming the archers will be ok for 1380ish. What about the men at arms?
There's always one... ::)
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There's always one... ::)
Actually, there's two... ;)
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Now officially out, gents :
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/67369_607905035998273_2534892178173614837_n.jpg?oh=b486ebc44ee1e15a058482d495ceae63&oe=54D2FDCF&__gda__=1427841348_018f560fcb5bea868a9aaa87d581d82e)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10440244_607905049331605_1956216946900131841_n.jpg?oh=7a1310635be10f2b39b2427d4ee44600&oe=55128A90&__gda__=1428173006_9bdaa22339a7deb0dc462278b1c57a55)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/1495438_607905012664942_2659269330106223294_n.jpg?oh=379905dc82a73e3392064d809023cdc2&oe=55025CB8&__gda__=1426434774_89fa02ad1d38460ec983035dd503c528)
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Woo-hoo! I've got mine :)
Lovely lovely pieces. Lots of great kitbashing potential from all the extra heads and arms...
Happy days.
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My, they're magnificent. Another set to add to my wishlist
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Inspecting the men at arms frame this evening.
Whilst the sculpting is the usual very high standard that we expect from PM - what's struck me is the quality of the moulding by Renedra. There is nearly no loss of detail down the sides of the figures (where the join in the top and bottom moulds meet), which i always thought was a given with plastic injection moulds. Also the originals have been very precisely positioned so that the seams run along the joins in the plate armour, so they are either minimal or non existent - the only minor mould lines on the figures are on the top of the helms, where a scalpel scrape and/or sanding stick easily smooths the helms ready for paint.
That said -whilst time is saved here - those visors are tiny detailed pieces.
I'm wondering whether to paint the faces first and then add any visors needing to be fixed as raised when the figures all done?
great sculpting and lovely plastic models - has given my HYW collection a boost to add extra figures for Agincourt campaign.
Simon.
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Woo-hoo! I've got mine :)
Lots of great kitbashing potential from all the extra heads and arms...
We're waiting you know ;D
cheers
James
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There goes my savings... :'( o_o
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There goes my savings... :'( o_o
Know what you mean!
SANTA!!!!!!!
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Well I've started building a few HYW-WOTR hybrids, and my first observations are:
The new HYW figures are noticeably taller and beefier than the WOTR sets - although the figures in the recent Foot Knights set were already noticeably taller (and less chunky) than the original WOTR and mercenaries sets...
The detail is very nicely done and they are all-round lovely.
But...
The very small components like the visors for the bascinets are damned hard to get off the frame in perfect condition (although my current craft knife is knackered, which doesn't help).
Ditto the swords and bundles of arrows - lots of lovely little pieces, eminently suitable for WOTR as well as the later HYW... But even cutting them off the sprue with extreme care, it's impossible to maintain a nice clean line along the side of the scabbard or the length of the arrow shaft. On such fine components, there is always a bump or a notch where they've come off the frame. Very hard to correct with either shaving or filling, because the imperfection is embedded into the grain of the plastic.
I've said it before on the earlier sets, but it is SO much better when small, linear components attach to the frame by one or other end, rather than halfway along the length of the item concerned :(
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I agree Richard. Those swords are a complete pain in the backside to get cleanly away from the sprue. The visors just scare me. I've already had the shaft of one hammer snap just removing the things from the box! ::)
But on the plus side they are absolutely beautiful figures with amazing detail. They match my Claymore castings figures (especially the newer crossbowmen) perfectly, being just a little stockier than the WoTR bill and archers.
And I've got a complete Lion Rampart army in one box. Which is nice. :D
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Guys, do you use side cutters, I do and I find that it helps to reduce breakage of the fiddly bits.
I cut out the pieces from the sprue first, leaving a bit of sprue around the items, then I chop off any big bits of plastic with the cutters like the triangles that hang off the shoulders etc and then I work at it with a very sharp scalpel (No 11 blade usually)
Sorry if this is like I'm trying to teach you to suck eggs, If you already do this, but to some of you that don't use cutters, it will make a difference to get some.
Captain Blood, those arrows sound almost as tricksy to remove as the Desert Rats helmets were. I found it difficult not to accidentally cut a tiny bit of the rim off on some of them, and even though it was a tiny wee bit of plastic almost a sliver, you still notice it! o_o Mind you I had loads of mis-cast water bottles on my Rats, and carving those out is not fun.
I have to say, with both plastic and metals, difficult clean ups and miscasts are the primary reason why miniatures stay in their boxes, rather than get painted.
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I cut out the pieces from the sprue first, leaving a bit of sprue around the items, then I chop off any big bits of plastic with the cutters like the triangles that hang off the shoulders etc and then I work at it with a very sharp scalpel (No 11 blade usually)
I am doing exactly that, but that's no guarantee
sucking eggs is still easier 8)
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Yup, side cutters. Unfortunately some of the parts, especially the scabbards, are extremely flimsy, making it hard to get a clean cut along the edges.
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Oh okay, I don't have them (yet). I was playing about with some fireforge stuff earlier today. They dont have proper sword belts sculpted on really do they?
Sorry gone off topic...
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I've already had the shaft of one hammer snap just removing the things from the box! ::)
Yep - me too Ray :(
The shaft on the long warhammer is so fine, that as soon as you apply the slightest pressure at any of the points at which it attaches to the sprue, it just snaps.
I've glued it back together okay, but...
I know they have to make multiple attachment points for the purposes of getting the mould right, and to hold all the pieces together. And I know Renedra must by now have a huge amount of expertise at finding the best way to lay the components out on the frame... But I'm not convinced they've done the optimum job on this particular set.
Doesn't really detract from the overall end result, but it certainly makes the building process somewhat less fun... ::)
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Doesn't really detract from the overall end result, but it certainly makes the building process somewhat less fun... ::)
I think I speak for everyone, when do we get to see your creations with these?! I'm eagerly awaiting my order crossing the Atlantic.
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lol
In a day or two.
I'm snowed under with real life right now. Desperately trying to find the time to progress a few builds of new figures that I've started. Some for WOTR and a few for GOT :)
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i thought your real life was just painting beautiful figures for us mere mortals to drool over.... :D
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If only... ;)
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I built six archers earlier and haven't gotten any further than the arms and the heads!
I must admit I picked the archers first, as I just couldn't decided what to do with the visors and whether to paint the faces before adding the visors.
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well i was thinking of grabbing 2 frames of archers...but not sure sure after reading how fiddly they are ??
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Well, to be fair, the main parts are no more fiddly than any other plastic set. You just stick the arms and head onto a body - they all go together very easily.
What's a bit fiddly about this set is getting the tinier components (sheaves of arrows, scabbarded swords etc) neatly off the frame.
Truthfully, I'm pretty fastidious about these things. I guess many people wouldn't be that bothered about a slight imperfection in the line of a scabbard or whatever.
I wouldn't let it put you off the set, because they're lovely figures. You just need to take care with the little bits and pieces.
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I'm pretty fastidious about these things.
I would never have guessed.... :D
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I would never have guessed.... :D
Back to your dolls houses with you :D