Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Gecko on December 03, 2014, 11:08:32 PM
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Hi,
I am looking for a "new" rulesystem to make use of the huge kind of different Fantasy miniatures I have collected over the years. I prefer small to medium scale Skirmish Systems and the game I played a lot and really enjoyed was Mortheim. even though it was really dependent on luck the campaign system was a great experience. It was just great to see how your group of little soldiers developed over time, got injuries and gathered experience to level up and lern new skills.
On the downside, the system has to be considered a closed system and is no longer available. That is why I am looking for something new. I allready found a few Fanatsy rulesystems but prior buying some rules I would really appretiate some advice about campaign systems and the opportunities to use these systems to create such a "Mortheim-like" gaming experience.
The ones I found are:
God of Battles
looks like a mass skirmisher. Maybe a good substitue for Warhammer kind of games? I only found the name and some battle reports, is there a review of the rules somewhere?
Fantasy Warriors
This link (http://swordandsorceryrpg.com)is all I found, but looks interesting enough to ask for more info
Brink of Battle
Would love to have a detailed review on this one.
warheim
Is it available in english? I olny found one website and if I remember correctly it was written completely in polish, nothing I can handle...
Open Combat
Another newcommer, as far as I can judge it. Any further info is appreciated.
Let me thank you for reading through this topic and helping me to pick the right set of rules for me with some pictures of the miniatures I used in Mortheim. They really deserve a new system to be used in :D:
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/Assassinenadept.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/Assassinenadept.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/Schamane.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/Schamane.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/Gefolge1.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/Gefolge1.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/schwarzerskaven2.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/schwarzerskaven2.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/schwarzerskaven1.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/schwarzerskaven1.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/Schattenlufer2.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/Schattenlufer2.jpg.html)
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n141/DaBoss86/Skaven/Schattenlufer1.jpg) (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/DaBoss86/media/Skaven/Schattenlufer1.jpg.html)
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Hi
God of Battles is - as you are suggesting - a great substitute for Warhamster (take a look at my GoB thread for more on my take on the rules: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=68878.0). It's a simple, fast system that plays equally well with a few units as with big armies. Skirmish? Not really, it IS a battle game, although the smallest recommended size is actually called 'Skirmish' level, at 24 pts, and usually 2-5 units per side.
I just skimmed the Fantasy Warriors rules yesterday, actually (promted to do so by Jevenkah's many posts about thet particular game), but I think they look a bit too old school for my taste. Too many stats, too much record-keeping.
Open Combat is fairly new, but one bloke brought it to a recent con here in DK, and there's a write-up here: http://codetroll.blogspot.dk/2014/11/open-combat-on-table.html
Brink of Battle - don't know it, but found this: http://wargamersworkbench.blogspot.dk/2013/01/brink-of-battle-after-action-reports.html
and this: http://infrequentwargamer.blogspot.dk/2012/07/brink-of-battle-playtest.html
Warheim? Don't know it, but it sounds like some stew of Warhamster and Mordheim??
You might consider Lion Rampant which handles small scale engagements well (and has a section on Fantasy, too, I think), but for Skirmish as in 'a group of individual wariors doing battle', I really don't know many Fantasy sets apart from Song of Blades (which I would like very much, if it weren't for my notoriously bad axctivation dice rolls).
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Brink of Battle
Would love to have a detailed review on this one.
Alex over at Anatoli's Game Room blog has the most comprehensive collections of reviews, battle reports, interviews, and info of Brink of Battle and its Fantasy supplement Epic Heroes. You can start here http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/2012/03/brink-of-battle-wargaming-through-ages.html
Noch Weiter!
Bob
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Warheim is only in Polish, thought I comment on QCs updates everytime asking for it to be in english lol.
Though Mordheim hasn't been supported by GW for years you might want to check out the following fan made supliments that have kept the game very much alive:
Biggest and most recent: Border town burning - Totaly new way for the players to progress through campaigns
Nemesis crown suplimentt: http://cianty.ashtonsanders.com/nc/
Pirates of Sartosa: https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/sartosa
Plus of course the "Lustria", "Karak Azgal", "Khemri" and "Empire in flames" supliments
Also there are another two in the works at the moment is "The sealed city": http://sealedcity.blogspot.co.uk/
"Mutiney in Marienburg" - no website yet but info and some released files on Liber malefic blog
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I am interested in the Marienbrug supplement
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I've just started looking into Open Combat abd it looks pretty good so far. Some of the mechanics will feel familiar if you've played Bloodbowl. No campaign system as yet, but it seems work is progressing on that and adding a more advanced magic system. Seems a reasonable substitute for mordenheim.
Songs of Blades and Heroes, is another possible substitute for Mordenheim, though in my opinion it gets a little 'samey' after a while. Fine for one off games, but not something I'd want to play week in week out.
I've also played God of Battles a lot, you should find a few threads about it, both Argonor's, and Pheonikuz's (my regular opponent). It's a good system, though on the larger side of skirmish, you're looking at around 30-40 models. No campaign system though. Foundry seems to be dropping it slowly, which is a pity as it's pretty solid, and if there came some more army lists for it, it could really be something great.
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This has come up quite frequently in the recent past, I asked a similar question myself about small skirmish/medium battle games. As a result I tried Mayhem, Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, and War of the Ring (better for bigger games). I also have a copy of Legions of Battle which looks very promising. These are not really skirmish games - though some use LotRSBG for this purpose, but worth looking at for the medium sized battles.
Games that have been mentioned as true skirmish games, though I have never played them and do not know if they have character development systems, which should not be a huge problem to devise yourself - if you were really stuck for ideas you could simply cut and paste from your old Mordheim set - include these
Song of Blades and Heroes and I think there's a dungeon/adventuring supplement
Pulp Alley (and the Lost Adventure supplement?) somebody mentioned to me would be easy to use as fantasy
Godslayer - got a copy of this, it's Mordheim sized bands, but not read it as yet, saving it for xmas 8)
More for you to research!
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I forgot to ask:
When you say 'Campaign' - do you mean a system for individual stat progression, or are you thinking of map/resource management, or even both?
When talking skirmish, I would assume the former, but... :)
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Hi there,
I've faced similar problems reconciling my love of fantasy skirmish games with the 'death' of Mordheim.
As others have suggested, there's Song of Blades and Heroes. I find this a great little game for lighter style play (like at conventions and such), but doesn't have enough granularity to feel like a true skirmish game to me.
Brink of Battle is good, but again doesn't have much in the way of statlines. Most of the grit comes from special rules and equipment, but it does have the advantage of being flexible enough to cater for any time period and tech base. If you throw in the extra special rules from the Epic Heroes supplement then the possibilities quickly become endless. As I think somebody mentioned above, Anatoli wrote an excellent review of this game on his blog.
Have you considered the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, using the Battle Companies addon for the campaign rules? I've recently found this and find it a nice little system for skirmish to small-level engagements. As it's LOTR, most generic fantasy stuff fits in without to much adapting! I'm hoping to do a bit more with this game and my homebrew fantasy setting shortly.
Another wildcard could be Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish, which you can read about here: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=67791.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=67791.0). I haven't played much using the playtest rules, but what I have tried has been an absolute blast! Cinematic action that doesn't get too bogged down, with a very detailed campaign system. Scott seems like a really nice guy as well!
Cheers,
Sam.
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You all make me happy, I am glad to see so much reaction on my questions, thanks for your feedback :).
If I understand you correctly, God of Battles is more a mass-skirmish system, still an interesting looking game but not what I am looking for right now.
Brink of Battle moved up on my imaginary purchase list. From what I have read so far it includes nearly everything I am looking for. Due to the fact Open Combat seems to be still under development, maybe it is better to wait until it can unfold its full potential...
@maxxev: these links are new to me, will check them out later, thank you for that input.
Songs of Blades and Heroes seems to be pretty widespread among fantasy skirmish players. What concerns me a little bit is the fact you only have two stats. Isn't that becoming a little bit to generic and "boring"?
Godslayer is a closed system and you will need the unit cards to play the game. I am out, because I am looking for a little bit more open/ generic system.
LotRSBG offers nice mechanics, sadly I was not able to pick up the rules and with the current price tags it is close to not affordable. Never heard of Mayhem but if these systems share the same kind of rules I have to check it out.
@Argonor: campaign for me mean that there should be some kind of progression for the armies in between the games. The games should be somehow connected to each other. Individual stat progression is the best kind of connection I can imagine ;D. So your assumption was correct.
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@veralius: nice input as well. So I am not alone with my "problem".
I have never heard of the Battle Companies addon. can you tell me where to find something about it?
Warband: Goalsystem Fantasy Skirmish is added to my list and will be researched later on 8)
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As mentionned by maxxev, Mordheim is not totally dead since there's a lot of fan made stuff all around the web.
I don't really understand the concept of "death" when it comes to a ruleset or game you like. It is not because it isn't supported anymore by a company or an author that the rules stop being good and playable. You seems, in your introduction post, to like Mordheim much. Just play the game you like.
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Re: Battle Companies...An industrious chap at www.one-ring.co.uk (http://www.one-ring.co.uk) took the original rules and spiffed them up quite a bit. They are available to download here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/kb.php?a=259 (http://www.one-ring.co.uk/kb.php?a=259)
It's quite a nice system, provided you liked the main SBG rules to begin with! I've been sitting on it for a while, waiting for a copy of the original SBG rulebook (not the Hobbit one) to pop up on eBay at a reasonable price. I recently got one for about £15, so it does happen!
Also, Nord mentioned Pulp Alley. This is more what I'd call "narrative-skirmish" in that it requires both parties wanting to create a fun story together, but it's a brilliant little game that works in any setting. There's a thriving community for it on the Pulp board in this very forum, and the creators have been a very visible presence there since the game's release. Definitely worth a look - I think there is a free, stripped-down version of the rules on Wargame Vault.
Right, I'd better get back to what I should be doing (working). Hope you find a system you like!
Cheers,
Veralius.
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I've played a lot of Song of Blades. The problem with it isn't the lacking amount of stats, but the low granularity of the stats. Every improvement to a model's capability is a large improvement thus making it unsuited for campaign play. Another issue is that all models only have one hitpoint, so regardless of a model's status (hero or general mook) one hit will have them out of the game.
I'd look into Brink of Battle if I were you. Also, Two Hour Wargames' Swordplay which is very much a campaign driven affair. Open Combat doesn't look too shabby either.
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I just wanted to mention another upcoming option. Otherworld Miniatures has announced that they are running a Kickstarter next week for their Otherworld Skirmish game. Not sure if it will meet all of your requirements but it is based on the popular 7TV system.
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Otherworld_Minis/index.php?showtopic=927&st=120
You'll have to go down a bit on the page to find the announcement. The first post in the thread is a year or so old but describes what they are working on.
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I'm biased here but you could try ShadowSea. The new version, Conquest of the Underground World has a full campaign system and character design system so you can build pretty much anything you want. I've been told the game is very "Mordheim-like" in the way a warband can progress and each individual model can grow. The underlying core of the game is SOBH but it has additional stats and a more complex combat and magic system, as well as more actions to do in general.
Here are a couple of the relevant sections to the discussion. These are only a small portion of the book. http://antimatter-games.com/download/ShadowSea_Campaigns_sample.pdf
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I am looking for a "new" rulesystem to make use of the huge kind of different Fantasy miniatures I have collected over the years. I prefer small to medium scale Skirmish Systems ...
Fantasy Warriors
This link (http://swordandsorceryrpg.com)is all I found, but looks interesting enough to ask for more info
Hi Gecko! As the owner/creator/photographer/et al of the site you mention above I can help a bit. What you see on our website is our campaign setting using Mongoose's d20 Conan RPG for PCs,
(adventures #37-49 here: http://swordandsorceryrpg.com/sgk_overview/)
with Fantasy Warriors as a way to resolve mass combat for our Dark Ages-era fantasy game.
We started playing Fantasy Warriors with Adventure #40 (http://swordandsorceryrpg.com/sgk40-the-battle-of-skarken-river/) (the all-night epic "Battle of Skarken River" (http://swordandsorceryrpg.com/sgk40-the-battle-of-skarken-river/)) and it's been a very fun and fulfilling story element.
We've used Fantasy Warriors with anywhere from 20-80 minis per side, and you could easily roll with more. I would say highly scalable. I like the "kill=take a figure off the board" element. It makes for fun pictures too.
We advance troops by keeping track of encounters and granting increases to various stats or rolls, and also bring in feats from the d20 rules as special abilities.
The Fantasy Warriors rules are available for free from the em4 website: http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Fantasy_Warriors.html
More of our Fantasy Warriors battles:
http://swordandsorceryrpg.com/fantasy-warriors/
Good luck gaming,
Jevenkah
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I'd strongly suggest Song of Blades and Heroes in conjunction with the Song of Deeds and Glory supplement which contains the fully developed campaign system. Song of Blades is wide open when it comes to unit creation and the free online unit builder at the ganesha website makes stating up a warband a breeze.
It's the game our club formed around and we do a campaign of it every summer. Dont' be fooled by the simplicity of the rules and the two-stat profiles. It's a very engaging system that derives much of it's variation and flavor from clever special rules. Deeds and Glory (necessary for an extended campaign) has a very nice system for leveling up, exploring, buying gear and abilities, etc.
It's true that characters can die a bit easier than in some other games (though not as fast as some would imply), but in the campaign post-game sequece, they usually survive to fight another day, though sometimes with injuries, grudges or having to sit out a battle. The only drawback I would note is that after 10-14 games a warband begins to get quite tough through stat upgrades. As a character's "quality" gets better, the element of chance in the activation mechanic goes down and you end up with very reliable troops that make the game a bit predictable.
We limit campaigns to about 6-8 nights of gaming with 1-2 battles played at each meeting which is usually more than enough for players to have advanced their warband notably and for a clear frontrunner to have emerged.
You can see this year's campaigns here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/p/quake-and-mourn-song-of-blades-heroes.html
and last year's here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/p/dark-days-have-come-to-lands-of-qaarra.html
If you're interested in Open Combat, we played and reviewed it a couple weeks ago.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2014/11/battle-report-open-combat-by-second.html
It's a system with some very nice features and we're looking forward to seeing where it goes, but it did feel unfinished to us. However, I could see it being a real contender once a new edition or expansion comes out.
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Imho you could do a lot worse than look at Crooked Dice's 'Seventh Voyage' variant plus it's supplements.
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Have you considered the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, using the Battle Companies addon for the campaign rules? I've recently found this and find it a nice little system for skirmish to small-level engagements. As it's LOTR, most generic fantasy stuff fits in without to much adapting! I'm hoping to do a bit more with this game and my homebrew fantasy setting shortly.
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Good call, I was considering mentioning that, too (my recent LotR-surge for God og Battles has put me in Middle-Earth mood)
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Yeah, LotR has been calling to me also.
A good choice too. I just recently picked up the rules for this and they look very well done and quite streamlined (in a good way) for GW produced rules.
You can get the "Return of the King" rule book for just a couple of bucks all over the internet. It's not the current version, but is close and has the stats for a wide variety of units from all three movies. The Battle companies supplement is free on the interwebs and the "one-ring" forum has an updated version as well.
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I've played many of the games mentioned and would also recommend Pulp Alley. It is a wonderful game with brilliant mechanics, granular in the right places and a solid campaign system. For a Sword and Sorcery setting it is suggested that you add an extra starting ability to each character for a bit more Fantasy flavoring.
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Someone mentioned Brink of Battle not having pre-generated stats for models. While other interviews and articles describe why having pre-gen stats kills the customization and open architecture of the game, we did listen to our customers and have included 13 Plug & Play Force Rosters in our Epic Heroes Fantasy supplement so people can get stuck in with the new rules and also have some ideas on just how flexible this game can be. Here's two sample forces, one is a basic D&D type adventuring party and the other one is evil fishman cultists.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lLeBjtNtkM8/VHedTEIZzAI/AAAAAAAADBg/l_YewThd0Mo/s1600/TrueBoldFighters_EH.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f8YrWZ43nQU/VHedeRQw_AI/AAAAAAAADBs/DNbBLQuDvnQ/s1600/KThonsAnchor_EH.jpg)
Sky is literally the limit with Flyers added as well as high level magic and large creatures, beasts of war, magic items, and an adjustable Power Level mechanic for making all types of settings from low to high magic. Any time period as well, as the Campaign system established in Brink of Battle and there really isn't anything you can't do in the 3-20 model space. And none of this is 'generic' in the bland sense. Every ounce of the Fantasy supplement drips with flavor and imagery.
Oh, and I've extended the Wargame Vault sale so you can really save some bucks. We've also got Iron Wind Metals, Bronze Age Miniatures, and Lead Adventure Miniatures in the book and each company is working on bundled deals so you can use the Force Roster and buy the whole force from their stores.
Noch Weiter!
Bob