Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Argonor on September 25, 2008, 10:27:47 AM
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I'm not quite sure if this belongs here, as this is a topic I don't know much about, but:
I've been noticing the Tiger Miniatures Balkan Wars range for a while (I love Turks with fezzes!), and was wondering what exact period they are eligible for. Some of the Greeks are stated as in uniforms from around 1900 - but they look to me as if they could also be used for the interwar/pulp period? Or am I shooting totally past target?
I could have googled it, but I guess someone in here probably knows more of the subject than, for instance, wikipedia...?
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Dear Argonor,
Balkan wars and not only is quite a fascinating story, which led to the balkan countries as we know them today.
History is long, so I will stay only at the figures:
1.- Greeks: The miniatures produced by Tiger Miniatures are suitable for:
Balkan wars 1912-1913,
WW1 (Greece in WW1) 1917-1918
The Odessa campaign: 1919 (against the Reds i.e. BoB)
Minor Asia campaign: 1919-1922
onwards until 1935: so, a pulp era [1922 coup d' etat, 1924 abolishment of monarchy, 1935 coup d'etat etc]
some of them can be used for earlier periods like VSF/early 1900's [this time in blue uniforms/not khaki. Ofcourse the weapons are not suitable for VSF, but generally speaking VSF is fantasy, so....]
After 1917-1918 Greeks were supplied with adrian helmets.
In various contemporary photos you can see soldiers in kepis and sidecaps fighting, sometimes alongwith helmeted ones.
Evzones could be used even for the 1940-1941 campaign against Italy.
2.- Turks: The figures already produced can be used for conflicts till 1917
like: Italo-Turkish war of 1911
1st Balkan war 1912
and several earler conflicts [again this time in blue uniform and red fez.
around mid WW1 the tirkish army changed from fez to the distinct helmet they have.
3.- Bulgarians: I am not an authority in Bulgarian uniforms, bu I think, that those
with the peaked cap are suitable for at least till end of WW1, maybe later on but I do not know.
So, they are useful for 1st and 2nd Balkan war 1912-1913, early WW1 and alongside helmeted types.
Irregulars might also be used in earlier conflicts and later ones until the ehd of WW2!
I hope I gave you a bief idea.
If you want, please see my photos of Greeks [tiger miniatires] in some earlier thread
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While writing the message I had a small problem with my computer and message was left half finished, Sorry!
Here is the link to the earlier Thread:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6528.msg72275#msg72275
and here is the link to my photos:
http://s320.photobucket.com/albums/nn335/argsilverson/wargaming/
some of the photos are in tiger miniatures website, too.
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I knew argsilverson would come through for you on this subject. I was about to say "ask him" when he posted.
Nice one. :)
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I knew argsilverson would come through for you on this subject. I was about to say "ask him" when he posted.
Nice one. :)
Thanks Plynkes
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Thank you VERY much, indeed, Sir! 8)
I just KNEW someone would be holding the cards on this one. :)
I could easily persuade myself to use the fezzed Turks for different kinds of pulp turkish border patrols/local police/henchmen of the local pascha as adversaries for the heroes, even though the correct full metal jacket would require helmets ;)
I think some of the Greeks could also be pressed into such service.
I may need to get me some ospreys on the subject - as the Balkans/Asia Minor/SW Russia would be a very nice place to set some eldritch adventures... also VWA (Victorian Weird Adventure).
So many (metal) men, so little time.... lol
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Thanks gents for assisting on the subject. 8)
Helen
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You could always take the Seven Years War route and set up a small fictional country on the borders of... well any real country that you want.
Set your games there and pick your own uniforms.
A bit like Indiana Jones perhaps (Last Crusade ?). Or the Prisoner of Zenda (I know Ruritania is central Europe, but it could easily be mid Balkans). Or Dracula (most Hollywood versions of Transylvania could be almost anywhere with woods and mountains).
(There are lots of Seven Years War players who base their forces on historical counterparts but set them in a fictional state, not too difficult given that Germany was full of minor principalities at the time. Look at some of the links from this page to see what I'm talking about :
http://nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com/)
Otherwise, how about some of the small states that seem to be hitting the news currently ? (I'll avoid mentioning them because apart from Georgia I can't remember how they are spelt.)
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Thank you VERY much, indeed, Sir! 8)
I just KNEW someone would be holding the cards on this one. :)
I could easily persuade myself to use the fezzed Turks for different kinds of pulp turkish border patrols/local police/henchmen of the local pascha as adversaries for the heroes, even though the correct full metal jacket would require helmets ;)
I think some of the Greeks could also be pressed into such service.
I may need to get me some ospreys on the subject - as the Balkans/Asia Minor/SW Russia would be a very nice place to set some eldritch adventures... also VWA (Victorian Weird Adventure).
So many (metal) men, so little time.... lol
I am afraid that Ospreys have not much on this subject. There is only one book which covers only a small part of the balkan history, The macedonian Front in WW1.
For uniforms please see: www.uniforminsignia.net/forum but today it didnot work.
[there is thread of several pages with lots of drawings for all the participants of the balkan wars, made by an authority in the subject : Yiannis Mylonas who is curator of the AThens War Museum. Actually all drawing are copies from his excellent book.]
Matters are a bit discussed here in LAF forum, so I list some of the threads:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6451.msg72424#msg72424
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6528.msg72275#msg72275
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6299.msg69612#msg69612
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6253.msg68856#msg68856
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6024.msg66142#msg66142
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=5878.msg65681#msg65681
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=5677.msg64925#msg64925
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=5678.msg63599#msg63599
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=5677.msg62266#msg62266
[A lot of work!]
History in the erais full of examples and not necessary to invent scenarios.
For example, during 1904, greek irregular volunteers fighting against bulgarian irregular volunteers in the lakes and swamps over the control of Macedonia, while the ruling Ottomans [fezzed], watched, intervened on one side or the other or just abandoning small villages and posts.
You could always take the Seven Years War route and set up a small fictional country on the borders of... well any real country that you want.
Set your games there and pick your own uniforms.
A bit like Indiana Jones perhaps (Last Crusade ?). Or the Prisoner of Zenda (I know Ruritania is central Europe, but it could easily be mid Balkans). Or Dracula (most Hollywood versions of Transylvania could be almost anywhere with woods and mountains).
(There are lots of Seven Years War players who base their forces on historical counterparts but set them in a fictional state, not too difficult given that Germany was full of minor principalities at the time. Look at some of the links from this page to see what I'm talking about :
http://nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com/)
Otherwise, how about some of the small states that seem to be hitting the news currently ? (I'll avoid mentioning them because apart from Georgia I can't remember how they are spelt.)
As I said above not necessary to invent new scenarios. Actual history has lots of examples. Just to have an idea:
in the first balkan war [1912-1913] greece fielded an Army of 105.000, Bulgaria on the large side with approx. 300.000, Serbia something less and Montenegro had an Army of 10.000! {all these against an Ottoman Army of 2.500.000, of course covering the whole Ottoman Empire of the time]
During the 2nd balkan war Romania was a member of the coalition against Bulgaria, so, here is the Balkan setting.
If you read the Tintin adventure "King Ottokar's sceptre" you see a formidable royal guard of Syldavia. The full uniform is based on the actual Montenegro royal guard uniform, which is similar to the national costume. SO, here you are!
The Balkan peninsula was the theater of lots and more lots of wars, fights, battles, political intrigues, monasteries with long and long tradition and history and full of historic places with ruins and treasures. What else you want to set games in VSF or Pulp eras?
Tiger miniatures has promised to produce almost all exotic units appeared in these theaters. He has even produced some Cretan gendarmes, which are now on the process to rectify some mistakes in the dress.
Please give them the support they deserve and see all exotic units starting from Evzones and Cretan Gendarmes and ending to Montenegin Royal Guard and Romanian Transylvanian chasseurs!
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Whoah... lots of threads, there... 8)
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Dear Argonor,
Please see my message in VSF 10mm
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=7637.0
I forgot to add in my earlier messages that the Greek uniforms of the era are almost identical to the Danish uniforms [Our king then was a Danish prince],
so, you have an alternative for your VSF projects as well!
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see the link:
http://forum.uniforminsignia.net/viewtopic.php?t=3656
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see the link:
http://forum.uniforminsignia.net/viewtopic.php?t=3656
That's a good one! :o 8)
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see the link:
http://forum.uniforminsignia.net/viewtopic.php?t=3656
That's a good one! :o 8)
If you have time search the other threads in this forum. There is another one with more photos and if I remember well there is one with photos and similar drawings from the same person but with expanded time scale, covering almost all Greek military history from 1821 (independence) till recent time! It is longer than the above, several more pages!
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Great, thanks! The period from 1921 is very interesting in a pulp kind of sense - will also make it easier to discern which minis can be used as proxies for this period ;)
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I just want to bring to your attention that these days [in fact the 5th of October] is the 96th anniversary of the start of the 1st Balkan war , on 5.10.1912.
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And today [26.10.2008] is the 96th anniversary of the liberation of Thessaloniki by the Greek Army!