Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: guitarheroandy on March 17, 2015, 08:56:44 AM
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Yesterday evening, Andy Mac and I reconvened at the club for another play test game of TMWWBK. This time, I had elected to carefully shape the forces to fit the NW Frontier - this is a feature of Dan's rules. He is keen for players to interact with rules and forces in this way. I therefore downgrade Pathan shooting to represent the lower rate of fire they managed but kept one unit at its normal ability to represent sharpshooters and gave them a house rule allowing them to kill a British leader on any double, not just the double 1 in the rules.
I also tweaked the rules for Ghazi fanatics, allowing them 'move and 'attack' as their 'free' activations (normally it's 'stand to' and 'move', but I felt that fanatics wouldn't just 'stand to'...they'd want to get in and kick ass! We also agreed that if the Ghazis could charge, they had to!!
Andy took the Pathans and I took the British. the scenario was that the British were defending a waterhole. One unit (the redoubtable Sikhs) was defending it and the rest were rushing to their aid. Who would get there first? The relief column or the pesky tribal horde??
We both rolled pretty well for leadership, except that my Gurkha leader was a drunkard so his leadership would vary from turn to turn. This would have dire consequences later in the game...
This is the table at set-up. The Sikhs are in the centre, gathered round the waterhole...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0135_zpszedo6dz9.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0135_zpszedo6dz9.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0136_zpsi6j7nsfw.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0136_zpsi6j7nsfw.jpg.html)
The tribesmen used the hills to screen their deployment, their swordsmen massed opposite the British right, with riflemen cunningly placed to snipe at the Sikhs from the cover of the hills. The British and Gurkha forces elected to enter on the right...
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0143_zps46hwupee.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0143_zps46hwupee.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0139_zpsjonxvkvu.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0139_zpsjonxvkvu.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0141_zpsqowxosvi.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0141_zpsqowxosvi.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0142_zpswswqrzru.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0142_zpswswqrzru.jpg.html)
Despite good leadership, the tribesmen struggled to make early headway, as Andy tried to 'double-move' them and promptly failed leadership tests so they did nothing! This allowed the British force to make considerably better headway than they might otherwise have managed.
The Pathans started sniping at the Sikhs, which began a gradual whittling away of those brave fellows, while Andy tried to get his swordsmen and jezzail-armed warriors into place.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0145_zpsk60siz8e.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0145_zpsk60siz8e.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0144_zpsw0h6av2u.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0144_zpsw0h6av2u.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0146_zpsaurxii1s.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0146_zpsaurxii1s.jpg.html)
The British forces moved quickly to try to form a decent firing line, as my plan was simple....shoot the bejeezus out of anything that moved and keep it at a distance!! Luckily, this included the Sikhs killing the leader of the Pathan riflemen directly opposite their position, forcing this unit out of the game - a severe handicap to Andy's plan!!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0147_zpsitxwqcow.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0147_zpsitxwqcow.jpg.html)
In the event, 'shooting the bejeezus and keeping the enemy at a distance' was largely what happened. Andy's snipers proved devastating against the Sikhs and, latterly, against the Gurkhas. However, he shot his bolt too quickly with the swordsmen and Ghazis, failing to co-ordinate their attacks which were shot down piecemeal. This demonstrated a neat mechanism in the rules whereby troops have firing priority, i.e. if they can be charged by a unit next turn, they have to shoot them. However, in this particular turn, I needed to use my British troops, with their Lee Metford magazine rifles (simulated by the 'marksman' special rule giving them +1 to hit) to devastate the Ghazis who were about to overrun the pinned remnant of the Sikhs. By shooting the swordsmen with the Gurkhas, I was able to pin them, thereby allowing the British to shift fire to the Ghazis. Nice!!!!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0149_zpst6lgu0a4.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0149_zpst6lgu0a4.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0150_zpszwvu9zvi.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0150_zpszwvu9zvi.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0151_zpsc3ci3gcf.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0151_zpsc3ci3gcf.jpg.html)
This meant that the Ghazis ended up shot to pieces and thereby unable to press an attack on the weakened Sikhs, who were then shot to pieces by the jezzails who had gotten into their rear. The brave leader being the last to fall doing his duty for the Empire!
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0153_zpsqhegvsmh.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0153_zpsqhegvsmh.jpg.html)
However, the Gurkhas then attracted the attention of the sharpshooting Pathans, who took them down to 1 man before the British volleys finally destroyed the last of the Pathans who were about to overrun the waterhole.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0157_zpsyx7ssmnd.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0157_zpsyx7ssmnd.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad276/guitarheroandy/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0158_zpssbdtjrwp.jpg) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/guitarheroandy/media/NW%20Frontier%20Afghanistan%201880/IMG_0158_zpssbdtjrwp.jpg.html)Game to the British! First victory for the sons of Empire in 4 games!!
Once again, the rules played out really well. The result was in doubt for a long time. Historically, it worked. Pathan sniping from the hills was dangerous enough. The swordsmen were destroyed if they attacked over too much open ground in unco-ordinated assaults.
I have almost finished painting the British Screw Gun and more Ghazis, so there'll be reinforcements next time...
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Nice looking little game. :)
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A very engaging report, it certainly gives a good feel for the rules and has the required period feel. Keep Em coming ;D
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Nice rep Andy.
Some jolly nice pics in there too! :-* :-*
Darrell.
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Stirring stuff.
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Great looking game. :D
I like the way these rules are developing. The way you can customise the forces to fit different conflicts looks very interesting.
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Great report. Gives a good idea of how the rules work. Honestly, it's going to be a long wait till the release in 2016!
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Great report. Gives a good idea of how the rules work. Honestly, it's going to be a long wait till the release in 2016!
I know what you mean, 2016!!! I ain't getting any younger you know :(
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If I've read your previous posts correctly, despite employing the same game engine as LR this isn't a skirmish game; units are companies. This means the figure to man ratio is about one to ten.
I hope that, unlike in LR, units are able to combine their attacks against enemy units. If not it will be imjpossible for native spearmen/swordsmen to realistically concentrate for localised mass attacks as they did historically.
I haven't seen any mention of company squares. Had some of the situations that have cropped up in your games occurred historically the threatened Imperial companies would have formed square as a matter of tactical doctrine.
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If I've read your previous posts correctly, despite employing the same game engine as LR this isn't a skirmish game; units are companies. This means the figure to man ratio is about one to ten.
I hope that, unlike in LR, units are able to combine their attacks against enemy units. If not it will be imjpossible for native spearmen/swordsmen to realistically concentrate for localised mass attacks as they did historically.
I haven't seen any mention of company squares. Had some of the situations that have cropped up in your games occurred historically the threatened Imperial companies would have formed square as a matter of tactical doctrine.
It is early days.... I suspect that company squares will be dealt with(?)
Darrell.
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I'd like to know the number of figures per unit, if possible (it'll help me plan my NWF buying)? Lion Rampant has 6 or 12 but I notice in the pics you have units of 10 and 12 and maybe more for the sword-wielding Afghans (I seem to remember reading somewhere these were in units of 16).
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Looking forward to this.
Very good looking game.
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If I've read your previous posts correctly, despite employing the same game engine as LR this isn't a skirmish game; units are companies. This means the figure to man ratio is about one to ten.
I hope that, unlike in LR, units are able to combine their attacks against enemy units. If not it will be imjpossible for native spearmen/swordsmen to realistically concentrate for localised mass attacks as they did historically.
I haven't seen any mention of company squares. Had some of the situations that have cropped up in your games occurred historically the threatened Imperial companies would have formed square as a matter of tactical doctrine.
The actual scale envisaged by the author is 1:1 and he envisages it as a larger skirmish game (using 'section' size 'units', I suppose although I personally visualise it as companies.) Hence lack of squares. Also, on the NW Frontier, the company square tactic was a no-no, as it just invited enemy massed gunfire and the terrain largely prevented it. There are limited instances during the 2nd Afghan war, e.g. at Ahmed Khel, where squares were used, but this was on open plains, not in the hills of the frontier.
One can co-ordinate massed attacks as one activates all one's units in one's turn, so , in theory one can assault a British line with fanatic warriors, kill several men and (hopefully) pin it ('cos that reduces its fighting capability) , then attack it again with another unit and hopefully devastate it...
You can do the dame as the Brits...blast a unit with close range volley fire, pin it, then assault with another unit. This is less likely as you are always outnumbered, but in theory it's possible...
We have had no issues with the rules, but then we like Dan's rule-writing style and enjoy his fairly 'free and easy' approach to movement, shooting angles, etc... However, in common with all his rules, they should be viewed as being a bit 'Hollywood' and not a full simulation of the warfare of the period. 'Fun and period feel' are the key aims and they work very well on both counts for us. Andy Mac (my opponent in these games) is painting Sudanese at the mo and another club member is doing Boers, so we'll have scope to try other theatres soon...
Ref unit sizes, without giving away too many secrets, the author has upper and lower size recommendations, so for regulars and irregulars, I would suggest aiming for 12, tribal warriors 16. My Pathan riflemen are in 12s as they are classed as irregulars due to the rules for tribal warriors firing abilities. These unit sizes would also allow you to game with T&T Colonial rules... They do seem to work. I think you could possibly push tribal warriors up to 18 or even 20 without breaking the mechanisms. I may try this at some point.
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Lovely eye candy and it seems the rules are coming along well.
8) 8)
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Ref unit sizes, without giving away too many secrets, the author has upper and lower size recommendations, so for regulars and irregulars, I would suggest aiming for 12, tribal warriors 16. My Pathan riflemen are in 12s as they are classed as irregulars due to the rules for tribal warriors firing abilities. These unit sizes would also allow you to game with T&T Colonial rules... They do seem to work. I think you could possibly push tribal warriors up to 18 or even 20 without breaking the mechanisms. I may try this at some point.
Brilliant. Many thanks. ANd personally, I'm glad this is staying a large skirmish game with 1:1 scale.
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I personally like games that don't have set figure scale, ground scale and time scale for each turn and, although it's broadly 1:1 scale, one can still do as I do and visualise company level and it still works, as, although you remove single figure casualties, I envisage that as more of a reduction in fighting capability of the unit rather than losing all those men dead. So, win-win, really.
You probably could house-rule company squares for each British unit if amiong Sudan, etc - I have some embryonic ideas for that, but can't share them yet as it would give away too many of the actual rule mechanisms.
And that's something else to remember. Dan actively encourages groups of gaming buddies to design house-rules, etc. This is definitely NOT going to be a tournament-friendly rul;e set, that's for sure!! :D
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'Fun and period feel' is right, and I think you've achieved that. Great game report and eye-candy!
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OK, so units are sections or the native equivalent (historically, A British section would average 20 to 25 men).
In that case a rallying (company) square would consist of four units, so it might be possible to get away without any additional 'forming square' rule, and just rely on normal movement. However, there would have to be some sort of positive combat modifier to give troops in square a boost beyond any advantage for having formed a firing line.
Rallying squares might have been exceptional on the NWF, but you've said the rules will cover any colonial campaign during the period, so they really should be directly addressed in the system design.
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How are commanders handled? is it just unit leaders or is their an overall separate officer? I see both nco and officer models in the sections and you say it's 1:1 or are they just for variation?
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In that case a rallying (company) square would consist of four units, so it might be possible to get away without any additional 'forming square' rule, and just rely on normal movement. However, there would have to be some sort of positive combat modifier to give troops in square a boost beyond any advantage for having formed a firing line.
Agreed :)
Rallying squares might have been exceptional on the NWF, but you've said the rules will cover any colonial campaign during the period, so they really should be directly addressed in the system design.
I'm going to be doing some play testing too using my Sudan collection (and hopefully a group of fellows from the Durham Club!). so I see 'forming square' as essential. If you imagine the troops scaled up then it is a must really. I guess the trick is to make it an effective tactic but not to give too much of an advantage. And of course, the squares in the Sudan were broken, not just the Egyptian army but the Brits too!
Darrell.
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There is an option for a close order firing line that adds benefits to both firing and combat but it has limited field of fire. My idea would be to tinker with that to enable forming square in a house rule. However, players do need to be aware that my 'scaling up' is not the original intent of the rules and that it is meant to be 1:1 like Lion Rampant and therefore unit squares are not really 'appropriate' (that isn't the right word really, but I can't think of a better one).
The game has numerous scenarios as well, so you tend to avoid the 'big battle need to form squares' thing most of the time.
We intend to do Sudan as well, but Andy, who is building the forces, is wanting to focus on the smaller actions and skirmishes with these rules. We may well look elsewhere if trying to simulate bigger battles, unless our tinkering enables unit squares to work.
However, for small-scale actions, these rules are really shaping up well. So far 4 of us have played the rules and none of us dislike them, which is unusual in our club! :D
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We may well look elsewhere if trying to simulate bigger battles, unless our tinkering enables unit squares to work.
I think there a various rules out there for the bigger battles in this period but none that I can think of that do skirmish level, which is why I, for one, am happy.
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How are commanders handled? is it just unit leaders or is their an overall separate officer? I see both nco and officer models in the sections and you say it's 1:1 or are they just for variation?
My units have both officer and nco models for variety but each unit has just one designated leader model. You dice for his leadership skill, which can cause some interesting conundrums! There is no overall force leader due to the rules scale. This does not actually impact on playability in a negative way at all, which surprised me as I kinda expected a force commander.
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There is an option for a close order firing line that adds benefits to both firing and combat but it has limited field of fire. My idea would be to tinker with that to enable forming square in a house rule. However, players do need to be aware that my 'scaling up' is not the original intent of the rules and that it is meant to be 1:1 like Lion Rampant and therefore unit squares are not really 'appropriate' (that isn't the right word really, but I can't think of a better one).
My response to this and please bear in mind that i haven't played any play test games as of yet, would be that there are plenty of cases of the Victorian soldier 'clumping' together in small groups that were actually quite effective. Maybe this should be taken into account? As i say, I haven't had the chance to play any play test games as of yet....?
The game has numerous scenarios as well, so you tend to avoid the 'big battle need to form squares' thing most of the time.
We intend to do Sudan as well, but Andy, who is building the forces, is wanting to focus on the smaller actions and skirmishes with these rules. We may well look elsewhere if trying to simulate bigger battles, unless our tinkering enables unit squares to work.
I'm painting up my forces for the Sudan for this very purpose at present. As soon as I catch up with the play testing I guess I'll have a better idea.
However, for small-scale actions, these rules are really shaping up well. So far 4 of us have played the rules and none of us dislike them, which is unusual in our club! :D
I'm not at all surprised given the author's pedigree.
Darrell.
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My response to this and please bear in mind that i haven't played any play test games as of yet, would be that there are plenty of cases of the Victorian soldier 'clumping' together in small groups that were actually quite effective. Maybe this should be taken into account? As i say, I haven't had the chance to play any play test games as of yet....?
You'll be pleased to hear that the 'close order' mechanism curently in the rules tackles this to some degree already.
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You'll be pleased to hear that the 'close order' mechanism curently in the rules tackles this to some degree already.
Yes, I should have added, re-read the rules lol.
Keep up the good work and I'll catch you all up soon :).
Darrell.
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You'll be pleased to hear that the 'close order' mechanism curently in the rules tackles this to some degree already.
Ah, plenty of opportunity to play out one of many disastrous last stands. ;)
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Ah, plenty of opportunity to play out one of many disastrous last stands. ;)
Mostly not out of choice this is usually how my troops end up when playing ;) lol
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One more point:
At the level at which the game is pitched it would be extremely unusual to see more than one type of infantry on the NWF. You really shouldn't see British troops at all if less than a brigade is being fielded, and then there'd normally be one battalion, and two or three Indian battalions.
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With Lion Rampant, the rules were made to encompass both a 'Hollywood' approach as well as a 'historical' one. I'm guessing that these rules will do the same.
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Mostly not out of choice this is usually how my troops end up when playing ;) lol
Historically accurate then. ;)
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One more point:
At the level at which the game is pitched it would be extremely unusual to see more than one type of infantry on the NWF. You really shouldn't see British troops at all if less than a brigade is being fielded, and then there'd normally be one battalion, and two or three Indian battalions.
Thank you. Yes, I am fully aware of troop composition on the Frontier. I have read widely on the subject. However, as I said earlier, gaming this is about period feel and fun for me, not about recreating exact campaigns, orbats, etc. I have Sikh, Gurkha, Guides and British models. Why on earth wouldn't I field them on my gaming table? You'll note that i have 1 British to 2 Indian units to match the battalion strengths you mention above in an attempt to get something 'right' (ish!) :D
I do realise and fully understand that some people want to be 100% historically accurate with all this stuff and that's great - just look at Atheling's attention to detail in his Sudan project. It's just brilliant attention to detail and will look absolutely great when it's finished (it's looking blooming good now!!).
However, I can't be bothered with any of that. If the British soldier model has a pith helmet and puttees, he'll do for me. E.g. For Boer war (2nd Boer war) games, I'll be using my Khaki painted Empress models, my Artizan Afghan war models, my Perry Sudan Highlanders...oh...and my Foundry Boer War Maxim crew! It's what I have and it'll do for me, preponderance of wrong rifles and wrong kit being irrelevant. Similarly, I just want to get the feel of the NW Frontier with a mix of Brit and Indian units. I realise that for some people, that makes me a kind of a heretic...sorry.... :D :D :D
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Nah, you sound like exactly the same type of gamer as me Andy. ;)
The moment Mike gets round to adding the Bengal lancers to his range there'll be some winging their way to my collection to fight alongside the Leicestershires and Guide infantry. Damn the historical accuracy! ;) Why collect a period with such an amazing range of troops in a wonderful range of uniforms if you can't include a little bit of everything?
This looks like just the game to allow me to do it too!
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Spot on there Ray! I think you'll enjoy these rules... :D
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Do I take it that historical accuracy isn't a concern, then?
For those for whom it might be, one could easily get around the problem by using a set of rules that employed individually based 28mm figures, but which set the battalion as the basic manoeuvre unit, for one's mixed troop type games, and use only one troop type with TMWWBK.
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Thank you. Yes, I am fully aware of troop composition on the Frontier. I have read widely on the subject. However, as I said earlier, gaming this is about period feel and fun for me, not about recreating exact campaigns, orbats, etc. I have Sikh, Gurkha, Guides and British models. Why on earth wouldn't I field them on my gaming table? You'll note that i have 1 British to 2 Indian units to match the battalion strengths you mention above in an attempt to get something 'right' (ish!) :D
Quite right too- if you want to field such units, you shouldn't need a major reason.
I do realise and fully understand that some people want to be 100% historically accurate with all this stuff and that's great - just look at Atheling's attention to detail in his Sudan project. It's just brilliant attention to detail and will look absolutely great when it's finished (it's looking blooming good now!!).
Thank you Andy. I love to mix the historical with my collections. to me that is part of the hobby. Emphasis on to me. Andy knows me well enough through former WAB Campaign weekends and various fora to know that I get caught up in the details and get a bit of a kick out of it.Having said that, what is wonderful about our hobby is that it allows for everyone to make their own interpretations and decisions about what they would like to field. Each to their own as the saying goes.
However, I can't be bothered with any of that. If the British soldier model has a pith helmet and puttees, he'll do for me. E.g. For Boer war (2nd Boer war) games, I'll be using my Khaki painted Empress models, my Artizan Afghan war models, my Perry Sudan Highlanders...oh...and my Foundry Boer War Maxim crew! It's what I have and it'll do for me, preponderance of wrong rifles and wrong kit being irrelevant. Similarly, I just want to get the feel of the NW Frontier with a mix of Brit and Indian units. I realise that for some people, that makes me a kind of a heretic...sorry.... :D :D :D
And of course, this 'angle' is just as valid and valuable to the hobby as my own.
Darrell.
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Do I take it that historical accuracy isn't a concern, then?
For those for whom it might be, one could easily get around the problem by using a set of rules that employed individually based 28mm figures, but which set the battalion as the basic manoeuvre unit, for one's mixed troop type games, and use only one troop type with TMWWBK.
It depends what you mean by 'historical accuracy'. I have one Brit unit to 2 Indian. That's 'historically accurate' at the appropriate scale, but obviously I have 'played fast and free' with the unit scale. Thus far all my playtests have given historically plausible results and that's always an acid test with me for any rules.
If I was planning a convention demo involving a re fight of Maiwand (for example) I wouldn't use these rules and I'd approach my model collection very differently. But yes, you could easily field, e.g. 3 Sikh 'sections' as an army on the Frontier with TMWWBK. Very easily. That's part of the joy of it. One can enjoy games using whatever models one already has ( which is what I am doing) or one can plan specific forces as you suggest.
This way, everyone is happy. :D