Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: westwaller on March 19, 2015, 02:31:53 PM
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I have been thinking about putting together some comparison shots of the various manufacturers ECW/TYW miniatures side by side for the benefit of other LAF members interested in starting this period for some time now, and I have finally started to put something together. I admit it could do with a bit more work, maybe some more photos etc but in the time I had spare to do this, I have only had time to do this so far. Oh and sorry for only putting one arm on each warlord figure, I didn't want to get half painted stuff out, or faff about making new ones up...
Here is a shot of ECW/TYW figures to give an indicator of the various sizes. I have tried to include more than one mini from each company, usually a smaller one, and a larger one of the same range. I have not included any Bicorne,Redoubt or Foundry because I don't own any.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/011_zpsio7zpxgl.jpg)
Here we have from left, TAG, Perry, Warlord infantry plastics, Empress and Renegade. I have included more Renegade figures because of the variation in size between figures. At first glance, it might appear that they are all not far off each other in height, but you can easily get a TAG or Perry figure underneath the musket of the loading Renegade figure (which as he is leaning forwards, I consider to be the largest of the Renegade range)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/026_zpsvla9gwl6.jpg)
Next we have a shot of the ranges that I consider to be compatible with one another comfortably- TAG, Warlord, Empress & Perry. It should be noted that the Warlord firing musketeer is a tad chunkier than his at porte/advancing comrade, so for some, the smaller Perry Ecw offerings might look at bit 'off' standing next to them.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/015_zps1zkkyned.jpg)
Lastly we have TAG and Perry miniatures to show the similarity between them when it comes to height.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/013_zpsnl9xnrmf.jpg)
Then we have Perry next to two Empress Ecw:
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/027_zpshumrllbf.jpg)
Then TAG next to Empress (left to Right):
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/029_zpsch2ezlqy.jpg)
Finally Renegade next to Empress:
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p704/westwaller/028_zpsowsdka3u.jpg)
Thats that for now hope some of you find it useful.
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Good idea.
If we can popluate this thread with useful comparison shots of ECW/TYW period figures, we can then stickify it as a useful reference point for all such queries :)
Here's my contribution from several years back:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/577_26_09_09_11_02_51.jpg)
Left to right: TAG, Warlord plastic, Bicorne, Renegade.
Generally, the guidance is:
Bicorne and Renegade go seamlessly together at the larger end. Redoubt fit well too height and stature-wise, although they are stylistically rather different.
TAG are a bit smaller - they fit well with the Perrys and Warlord metals towards the smaller end.
But stylistically, TAG fit well with Bicorne / Renegade (because they're all sculpted by Nick Collier)
The old Perry range for Wargames Foundry are very diminutive. Style-wise they fit in okay with the Perrys' own range (obviously) but not much else.
The Empress range are at the tall end, but very much slimmer than Bicorne / Renegade / Redoubt, and with a very distinctive style of their own that (IMHO) doesn't really fit with any of the other major ranges above.
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Hi,
Comparison picture here with ideas for how you can match up figures of different heights;
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=64174.msg813319#msg813319 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=64174.msg813319#msg813319)
Al
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Thanks for doing this guys as I'm looking at doing some Thirty Years War gaming and this thread is more than a little useful!!
Kudos 8)
Darrell.
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Glad it was useful to you. It comes up of various forums so much, I thought I would do a thread.
TAGs TYW range is pretty extensive and would mix with Warlords too if you want to go that way, although if you wanted some bigger chaps I might have some for sale soon...
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Very useful thread. I'm not sure if everyone is aware, but Bicorne was taken over in August last year and has been adding to its ECW range for the first time in a while, including entire packs in montero and monmouth caps, specifically for the Royalist Oxford Army. I bought some of these at Salute and the newer figures don't look overly big beside some of the Perry and Foundry offerings - I'll try and post some comparison pics at some point.
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Well well. Interesting news. I didn't know that, although I remember that the previous Bicorne owner had been trying to shift the business on for some time.
Saw them at Salute for the first time in a couple of years, and thought I didn't recognise the people behind the desk.
They certainly need to do something about their display cabinet, where all the miniatures were laid out under glass at round about groin height. Not that helpful to seeing what's on offer (although I own most of them already).
Do you know who's sculpting the new additions? Nick Collier did 80% of the original huge range - all very nice.
He then moved on / ran out of steam and Alan Marsh provided most of the later packs. Unfortunately in a totally different style - very squat and munchkin-like. Nothing like Collier's brilliant sculpts for the bulk of the range.
Be interesting to see if the new owners have brought in a third sculptor or reverted to one of their original two...
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If its useful, I've got a directory of 28mm Renaissance-era manufacturers on my site.
I'll now go and update the Bicorne entry.... ;)
Madaxeman.com Renaissance figure directory (http://www.madaxeman.com/main/28mm_Renaissance_suppliers.php)
tim
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Great post!
Another worthy contributor is Emil Horkys TYW range sculpted by Paul Hicks:
http://www.horcata.eu/inpage/thirty-years-war/
They match the TAG/Perry size
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Great post!
Another worthy contributor is Emil Horkys TYW range sculpted by Paul Hicks:
http://www.horcata.eu/inpage/thirty-years-war/
They match the TAG/Perry size
To the contrary, my impression is that Horcata figures are far larger.
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To the contrary, my impression is that Horcata figures are far larger.
according to my memory they are on the smaller side, like other Hicks sculpts. For sure they are smaller than Renegade/Bicorne/Redoubt but I will make a comparison shot tomorrow to make sure.
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Thanks gents for some very useful info - I am actually looking to flesh out a (mostly Warlord) TYW Swedish army so both handy and very timely :)
Cheers,
Paul
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Hi. the Horcata are very slightly bigger than TAG and Perry, roughly the same height as Warlord plastics and Empress, although Empress have a slimmer build.
A link in my earlier post above shows a comparison phota which includes all these. Horcata is the rightmost. I think they go very well with all the above.
Al
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Much appreciated, guys!
A follow-up. I was thinking of getting some variety in my TAG figures by converting them with heads, weapons and hands using Warlord plastic sprues bits and pieces. Warlord figures are a bit larger as a whole, but TAG heads are a little disproportionate in order to give the figures some personality on the table. So the conversions might work.
Anyone tried this?
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I've not really done much in the way of metal conversion, because I get the variety I want in metals by mixing a few of the manufacturers. I have converted the Warlord plastics - mainly to add musket rests or to modify the pose. I have also made Harquebusier cavalry from the plastic cavalry. Plastics are easier to convert, and they don't have the variety of pose that the metals do, so you get more reward for the effort put in IMHO.
Al
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Westwaller, when you say here do you mean above?
Just so it's clearer for me- the TAG and Warlord stuff do seam to fit together(?)
Darrell.
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Darrell,
IMHO TAG TYW range and Warlord do fit together size wise, yes. There are a few differences style wise- TAG shot bandoliers, swords and coats are different which is Nick Colliers style and the Warlord muskets are longer but you could just say that the TAG chaps have Carbines. Actually the barrel of the Warlord plastic musket ends before the gunpowder pan, so in real life would not function!
The plastic warlord infantrymen vary slightly themselves in size with the shooting musketeers being a bit beefier than the marching/at porte ones. The TAG miniatures slightly vary in size, with some of the more recent packs miniatures being slightly beefier, but only by a small margin.
As my primary interest is the ECW, I don't own any of the Warlord TYW specific range but I imagine that the sizes are very similar.
If you want to make up your own mind, grab a sprue of the Warlord ECW Infantry off of ebay to compare to a pack of TAGs offerings and then if it doesn't suit, sell it/them on on here...
Empress figures are beautiful, but are a challenge to paint and I doubt if I will ever paint a whole regiment of them. They also have very thin separate bendy swords unfortunately.
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Darrell,
IMHO TAG TYW range and Warlord do fit together size wise, yes. There are a few differences style wise- TAG shot bandoliers, swords and coats are different which is Nick Colliers style and the Warlord muskets are longer but you could just say that the TAG chaps have Carbines. Actually the barrel of the Warlord plastic musket ends before the gunpowder pan, so in real life would not function!
The plastic warlord infantrymen vary slightly themselves in size with the shooting musketeers being a bit beefier than the marching/at porte ones. The TAG miniatures slightly vary in size, with some of the more recent packs miniatures being slightly beefier, but only by a small margin.
As my primary interest is the ECW, I don't own any of the Warlord TYW specific range but I imagine that the sizes are very similar.
If you want to make up your own mind, grab a sprue of the Warlord ECW Infantry off of ebay to compare to a pack of TAGs offerings and then if it doesn't suit, sell it/them on on here...
Empress figures are beautiful, but are a challenge to paint and I doubt if I will ever paint a whole regiment of them. They also have very thin separate bendy swords unfortunately.
Thanks mate- and thanks for the PM too- very much appreciated as I'm not receiving any e-mail notifications (haven't been for a while now!0 even though I keep resetting my preferences for notifications..... o_o o_o o_o
Looks like I'll be sticking to TAG as it's the TYW that holds my interest, not that I'm averse to the odd ECW game- we used to play a lot st the Edinburgh club using The Perfect Captain rules which, incidentally, give a great flavour for the commanders.
Thanks again :)
Darrell.
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You're welcome Darrell :)
TAG Tyw miniatures really are things of beauty!
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You're welcome Darrell :)
TAG Tyw miniatures really are things of beauty!
I'm waiting on some Early Italian Wars Spanish to pop through my door soon... they are lovely as i've seen the mini's up close.
The TYW (so much more interesting than the ECW- or just different??) is on the cards though mate :)
Darrell.
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Here's another comparison shot; 2 Perry, 2 Horcata, 1 Warlord. The Horcata models are very close to Warlord in size, and are well cast in a very hard metal (I had a hard time to get their cavalry to fit on my chosen horses).
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/mrtnw/Miniatures2/ThirtyYearsWar/horcata-review2.jpg)
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Warlord, Redoubt Enterprises, Brother Vinni, Eureka
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...and another thread topic screwed by Photobucket!! I don't even know if I have the pictures still, I MAY redo this thread at a future date.
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Has anyone comparison pictures of cavalry?
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Has anyone comparison pictures of cavalry?
ducdelimbourg, I plan to do some good photos at a later date (having trouble downloading pics from phone to laptop, cable is iffy) but which manufacturers are you interested in comparing ? I have been buying a few different cavalry lately.
I like the bigger end of figures and I put Redoubt and Bicorne cavalry together, on a mix of horses . I assume Renegade cavalry will fit with them, but I don't have any.
At the smaller end I also have some Old Glory, Dixon , Foundry and old Essex cavalry and dragoons which all go OK together as far as I am concerned, but some have saddle integral to the figure while others have it on the horse; also the smaller horses differ a lot in looks and stature for me to be comfortable .
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Thanks for the reply.
Was thinking about TAG, Bohmian and figures which would fit to these ranges
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And does somebody has comparison figures of Steve Barber and 1st corps figures (infantry and cavalry)?
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Hello! I'm Javier Gomez aka El Mercenario, from 1898 Miniaturas Spanish Company. Recently we released our own 1618-1648 Spanish Tercios range (you have pics and extra info in this thread http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=115543.135), and this is the size comparison regarding other popular ranges. Cheers!
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/921/HQqrJy.jpg)
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Comparisson between the new 1st Corps cavalry and Bicorne.
Unpainted are by 1st Corps, painted is by Bicorne.
(https://1stcorps.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/size-comparisson-photos/Bicorne-size-comparisson.-2.jpg)
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Comparisson of 1st Corps ECW. TYW and Bicorne ECW.
Left to right 1st Corps ECW,1st Corps TYW, Bicorne ECW and 1st Corps ECW.(https://1stcorps.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/size-comparisson-photos/ECW-and-TYW-size-comparison.jpg)
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Hi guys, new to the forum - and returning to mini gaming after a solid 15 years plus.
I'm getting into the pike and shot era in 6mm and have gone with Baccus and Microworld minis.
Here's a comparison on how those to lines fit together.
My apologies for being a poor photographer!
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As I have recently received some minis from both Bicorne and Avanpost I thought I would line up what I have for a comparison pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/XxmydZU.jpg)
WG- Warlord Games
PR- Perry's
AV- Avanpost
OG- Old Glory
1st- 1st Corp
BC- Bicorne
WG*- Warlord Games plastic
Missing are Redoubt, Empress and TAG (in the post...).
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As I have recently received some minis from both Bicorne and Avanpost I thought I would line up what I have for a comparison pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/XxmydZU.jpg)
WG- Warlord Games
PR- Perry's
AV- Avanpost
OG- Old Glory
1st- 1st Corp
BC- Bicorne
WG*- Warlord Games plastic
Missing are Redoubt, Empress and TAG (in the post...).
@Codsticker did you get the Redoubt, Empress and TAG minis via the post? It would be great to complete the pic above ???
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Sadly, Redoubt haven't showed up yet. :( The TAG figures are mounted and the one Empress I have is the drover from the oxen team.
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As a matter of interest anyone got any thoughts on Warlord and Eureka's Montrose/Scots figures as a comparison?
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As a matter of interest anyone got any thoughts on Warlord and Eureka's Montrose/Scots figures as a comparison?
I second this but can we add the Bicorne and TAG Scots in as well for a good comparison? I've looked at the Bicorne Scots on line and they seem different to the other Bicorne ECW figures especially the foot ??? it's as if a different sculptor did them ??? :-I
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I've looked at the Bicorne Scots on line and they seem different to the other Bicorne ECW figures especially the foot ??? it's as if a different sculptor did them ??? :-I
A different sculptor did. The lion's share of the Bicorne ECW range was sculpted by Nick Collier (along with the Renegade ECW range, round about the same time).
Most of the core infantry, horse and dragoon packs, and the early codes in things like command packs and artillery crew packs, were done by Collier.
However, I think the Scots, most of the personality figures, and a few of the later cavalry and command pack codes, plus some gun crews and a couple of the pike packs, were done by other sculptors - principally Alan Marsh. The style is not the same. Nowhere near as good, TBH.
There are also a few suspected 'Frankenstein' codes - where Collier-sculpted dollies or heads have been assembled and adapted into additional packs by other hands... So you have to be careful.
It would have been helpful for Bicorne to make clear on their website (which they've just redone incidentally) who is the sculptor of which pack. But to be fair to the current owners, they've only been in charge for the last few years, so it's entirely possible they don't actually know who sculpted which pack back in the day. Bit of a mess unfortunately... ::)
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As a matter of interest anyone got any thoughts on Warlord and Eureka's Montrose/Scots figures as a comparison?
The Eureka figures are tiny,Warlord okay a bit fantasy :)
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The Warlord Highlander figures are, indeed, “a bit fantasy” (and I think that’s being very diplomatic!).
In many periods the bulk of manufacturers and their customers place great emphasis on the historical accuracy of sculpts (eg Napoleonics, Ancients, WW2) significant effort is placed in the use of research etc. and getting it right. For some reason, as soon as one looks at the mid C17th (and ECW in particular) it’s quickly apparent that many manufacturers don’t give a stuff about the history and turn out the most bizarre sculpts that bear absolutely no relation to known historical fact. Equally bizarre is the wad of ECW rules that are clearly so poorly researched (if researched at all?) that do not even try to portray mid C17th warfare. Clearly there is a market for this or manufacturers would not produce and sell them?
Why, therefore, is the ECW considered by wargamers to be different to other periods?
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The Warlord Highlander figures are, indeed, “a bit fantasy” (and I think that’s being very diplomatic!).
In many periods the bulk of manufacturers and their customers place great emphasis on the historical accuracy of sculpts (eg Napoleonics, Ancients, WW2) significant effort is placed in the use of research etc. and getting it right. For some reason, as soon as one looks at the mid C17th (and ECW in particular) it’s quickly apparent that many manufacturers don’t give a stuff about the history and turn out the most bizarre sculpts that bear absolutely no relation to known historical fact. Equally bizarre is the wad of ECW rules that are clearly so poorly researched (if researched at all?) that do not even try to portray mid C17th warfare. Clearly there is a market for this or manufacturers would not produce and sell them?
Why, therefore, is the ECW considered by wargamers to be different to other periods?
I believe this needs a forum topic all of its own and I reckon a welcome debate from all no doubt. ??? ;)
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A different sculptor did. The lion's share of the Bicorne ECW range was sculpted by Nick Collier (along with the Renegade ECW range, round about the same time).
Most of the core infantry, horse and dragoon packs, and the early codes in things like command packs and artillery crew packs, were done by Collier.
However, I think the Scots, most of the personality figures, and a few of the later cavalry and command pack codes, plus some gun crews and a couple of the pike packs, were done by other sculptors - principally Alan Marsh. The style is not the same. Nowhere near as good, TBH.
There are also a few suspected 'Frankenstein' codes - where Collier-sculpted dollies or heads have been assembled and adapted into additional packs by other hands... So you have to be careful.
It would have been helpful for Bicorne to make clear on their website (which they've just redone incidentally) who is the sculptor of which pack. But to be fair to the current owners, they've only been in charge for the last few years, so it's entirely possible they don't actually know who sculpted which pack back in the day. Bit of a mess unfortunately... ::)
Captain Blood many blessings to you and yours. Thank you, thank you. You've just stopped me making a mistake in terms of getting the look and feel right for my less than homogeneous French-Savoyard Thirty Years War Army :)
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I'm a new arrival to this site.
I ended up here because after 24 years of buying my first miniatures I now at last seem to have gethered the courage to have a go at painting them.
Back in the day I traveled to the UK to buy my armies directly from ESSEX miniatures. Good that the option of internet purchase no longer makes such journeys necessary.
I recently checked to see if ESSEX still exists, they do, but to my surprised they don't seem to do ECW figures anymore.
Is this why you haven't got them in the line up?
Can someone explain to me why companies make some mounted units with the horse and rider as one piece, while they also produce them as seperate figures.
There must be a point to this, but I fail to see it.
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It's great to hear that you are going to try painting your figures! The first few might not meet your expectations, but you'll get better the more you do! Just like anything else, repetition yields improvement.
As for the horses with and without cast riders, I think that comes down to modeler preference.
- Some people like painting the rider on the horse, some like painting them separate
- Some like the rider sculpt, but prefer a different manufacturer's horse
I just recently ordered a full set of Bloody Miniatures' ECW figures and they are fantastic! I couldn't be happier. The sculpts are so characterful. They look great next to my Bicorne's and metal Warlord figures... and my plastic Warlords that have metal washers hidden under them.
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I was just scrolling through this thread and I noticed a lack of cavalry comparisons here so i thought I would show what I have lined up head to tail.
(https://i.imgur.com/oDuvEF6.jpg)
From left to right we have: TAG (from the Pappenheim and staff blister), Warfare miniatures (troopers with hats and swords), Bicorne (Cuirassier), Warlord Games (plastic generic cavalry), Perry's (mounted dragoon), Avanpost (resin mounted dragoon).
I also have some Horcata mounted figures butI forgot to include one ::) however you can see one beside Warlord Games King Charles (both are on Front Rank horses) here:
(https://i.imgur.com/6AukY53.jpg)
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Are the Bicorne/Renegade Horses sculpted by the same guy who did the original Artizan Designs before North Star Nick started distributing for them?
They do have a similar feel to them:
(https://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img1136.jpg)
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Are the Bicorne/Renegade Horses sculpted by the same guy who did the original Artizan Designs before North Star Nick started distributing for them?
Could be, hard to tell; as I have those figures as well I will dig them out and have a look. The Bicorne horses have the best combination of detail, weight bearing, body proportion and hoof/leg placement of any of the historical ranges I have (with the possible exception of the Ebob Mongols, now defunct). Some horse sculpts are awful but I realize that sculptors may have to make compromises for casting reasons. I probably pay more attention to those kind of details as I work in the horse industry.
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Could be, hard to tell; as I have those figures as well I will dig them out and have a look. The Bicorne horses have the best combination of detail, weight bearing, body proportion and hoof/leg placement of any of the historical ranges I have (with the possible exception of the Ebob Mongols, now defunct)
To name a few, the eBob Mongol horse dollies are now used by Gripping Beast, Artizan designs, 1st Corp and Crusader so their legacy lives on :)
Some horse sculpts are awful but I realize that sculptors may have to make compromises for casting reasons. I probably pay more attention to those kind of details as I work in the horse industry.
Ah, you will certainly have a better idea of what a horse should look like (micro and macro) than me as I've only ever ridden the donkeys at Blackpool when I was very small :)
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Are the Bicorne/Renegade Horses sculpted by the same guy who did the original Artizan Designs before North Star Nick started distributing for them?
Darrell, I'm pretty sure Nick Collier did all his own horses for the Bicorne, Renegade and TAG ECW / TYW ranges (They vary a lot in look though).
Artizan Designs was Mike Owen's own brand before Nick E took over sales. I'd imagine these are Mike's horse sculpts, but I don't know. They don't look like Collier horses to me.
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Darrell, I'm pretty sure Nick Collier did all his own horses for the Bicorne, Renegade and TAG ECW / TYW ranges (They vary a lot in look though).
Thanks Richard. I've got models from all three ranges and I think they match up stylistically. I hadn't realised that nick had sculpted the horses though.
Artizan Designs was Mike Owen's own brand before Nick E took over sales. I'd imagine these are Mike's horse sculpts, but I don't know. They don't look like Collier horses to me.
I don't know why but I keep thinking they are of a similar style..... probably all in my head lol
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How do the former Bohemia Miniatures now sold through Empress compare size wise. I am primarily interested in how their TYW pike and shotte would mix in with TAG, Avanpost or 1898 miniates foot.
Jim
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Jim,
I've only just spotted this, sorry. There are some comparisons of the Bohemia miniatures pike on page 2 of this thread. I think there might be a comparison on the Empress miniatures page too as they picked up the Bohemia/Horcata TYW range.
There are a few links to other comparisons on page 1 too.