Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Chairface on October 01, 2008, 05:42:10 PM
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Hey
I'm starting a VSF project and want to use Sikh Cavalry riders for it. Can anyone recommend a line (lines) that produce Sikh Victorian era Cavalry in 28mm? I am leaning towards Redoubt, but there are only two poses. Thanks.
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Do you mean Sikh Cavalry of the Indian Army or of the Sikh Khalsa Army?
(Not that I can help you in either direction, but it might help others to help you if they know that.)
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Do you mean Sikh Cavalry of the Indian Army or of the Sikh Khalsa Army?
(Not that I can help you in either direction, but it might help others to help you if they know that.)
My appologies. That was a bit vague of me. Sikh Cavalry of the Indian Army.
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Brigade Games: packs BG-WIEB90 & BG-WIEB92
http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
not exactly Victorians but very close being WW1.
Another option could be some of the victorians produced by "little lead soldiers" which has some Indians in parade
http://www.littleleadsoldiers.com/
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I have some of the redoubt mounted sikh's with crouched lance. They are some nice figures, not too big like their Zulu range.
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Old Glory make some in their Indian Mutuny but they may be too early for what you want and they dont have lance. Also in their Northwest Frontier range there is some Bengal lancers and Guides but I dont know if they are Sikhs or not!
IIRC Foundry make some as well.
Cheers
Kieran
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Not a great photo but Foundry do these.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Eaglstone/SUDAN/DSCF0523.jpg)
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I'm not a fan of Old Glory figs, however, I do own the NWF Bengal Lancers (who most definately are Sikh). They are reasonable figures, better than many of their ranges. Depends on the level you are after. The redoubt ones are quite big from what I've heard, but are probably better sculpts, not actually seen them though.
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Are you asking for Sikh cavalry specifically, or any Indian army horse? Because, and Plynkes, correct me if I am wrong here, Sikhs are an ethinic and religious group from which during the Raj rather homogeneous regiments were drawn. Bengal Lancers are cavalry regiments from the region of Bengal in the NE. And they were of mixed ethnicity with a majority of muslims. I think.
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Chairface,
Scroll down the link here and you will a photo of the OG Bengal Lancers that I use in my VSF games. (They are decent enough figures, better than many other OG sculpts.)
Bungditin's Bhurpa Lancers from Khalibar ;)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6220.0
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Hammers, the "Bengal" in Bengal Lancers means the unit belongs to the Army of the Bengal Presidency. It doesn't describe the ethnicity of the troops.
The Bengal Army had Punjabi (and therefore Sikh) units of infantry and cavalry under its command as well as other peoples. For example, the 11th Bengal Lancers were originally Probyn's Horse*, a unit of Sikh Irregular Cavalry raised at the time of the Great Mutiny.
*They got that name back again after the Great War. They also later had "5th King Edward VII's Own Lancers" tacked on the end too, which made for a bit of a mouthful.
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Hammers, the "Bengal" in Bengal Lancers means the unit belongs to the Army of the [wiki]Bengal Presidency[/wiki]. It doesn't describe the ethnicity of the troops.
Thanks for (at least partially) clearing that up! I had to look up the Bengal Presidency bit.
I should also add that Castaway Arts in Australia makes very nice Bengal Lancers fir for the Victorian age.
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Sorry about that. Yeah, British India was divided into presidencies (administrative provinces), each of which had their own army. The others were Bombay and Madras. The presidency armies were eventually done away with and the Indian Army unified into a single body around the start of the 20th Century, I think.
Our example the 11th dropped "Bengal" from their name in 1903, so I reckon it was round about then that it happened.
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Ah, that all makes sense and I stand corrected. All the references to the Bengal Cavalry that I've read (that mentioned it) was to Sikhs. However, it's entirely probable that they were about the Sikh units :P
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Yes, some Bengal Cavalry units were raised from Sikhs in the Punjab, some weren't.
For example this chap:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/408px-Malik_Umar_Hayat_Khan_c_1901.jpg)
The Hon. Malik Umar Hayat Khan of the 18th Bengal Lancers (as was, the name had changed again by his day to the 18th King George's Own Lancers), is clearly not a Sikh. They were originally the 2nd Mahratta Horse.
Whereas...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/SherSingh13BL.jpg)
Rissaldar-Major Sher Singh of the 13th (Duke of Connaught's Own) Bengal Lancers (originally 4th Sikh Irregular Cavalry or Watson's Horse) is most definitely from a Sikh regiment.
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Incidentally, and apropos of nothing, the Gary Cooper adventure picture The Lives of a Bengal Lancer was supposedly Hitler's favourite film.
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Incidentally, and apropos of nothing, the Gary Cooper adventure picture The Lives of a Bengal Lancer was supposedly Hitler's favourite film.
Oh. I heard it was Chaplin's "The Dictator". Or "King Kong, 1933". Or "Weekend at Bernie´s*)". Or various western movies. All depending on which expert biographer on Hitler you choose to believe.
*) Well OK, I made that one up, but I feel he would have had he lived to see it. I mean, who can resist a film where a dead guy gets kicked in the groin about ten times.
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I heard 'King Kong' too. Bit of a film buff, our Adolf, it seems. I wonder if he would have liked "Downfall?"
I say, this is getting a bit off topic. Shouldn't the damn moderator be doing something about that?
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I heard 'King Kong' too. Bit of a film buff, our Adolf, it seems. I wonder if he would have liked "Downfall?"
I say, this is getting a bit off topic. Shouldn't the damn moderator be doing something about that?
You know, the moderators at this place...feh!
Sorry, back to Sikh cavalry.
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You needn't say sorry, old chum. It was me that turned this thread into The Adolf Hitler Movie Club. :)
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Anyone know of a 'definitive' guide to NW Frontier troop uniforms?
Here are a few nice uniform variations for the Bengal Lancers. Also like the ones Capt. Blood showed us a few moons ago.
(http://www.military-prints.com/images/rs15.jpg)
10th Bengal Lancers
(http://www.military-prints.com/images/rs16.jpg)
1st Bengal Cavalry
(http://www.military-prints.com/images/rs12.jpg)
2nd Bombay Lancers
I'm putting together a VSF Indian force for my Martian Empire forces at the moment. Not telling you what I'm mounting the lancers on yet though... But here's the colour scheme for some of my infantry:
(http://www.military-prints.com/images/rs6.jpg)
Actually the 29th Bombay Native Infantry (according to the image).
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"The Indian Army" by Boris Mollo is pretty good. But as the name suggests it is about more than just the North West Frontier. Goes right up to independence. It has that same picture of the 29th Bombay Native Infantry (Duke of Connaught's Own Baluchis) that you posted. I'm looking at it right now.
That picture is dated as c.1890 and depicts them at Field Firing. I seriously doubt they would have worn that get-up in action at that time, but it is a wonderful colour scheme to use for your VSF unit.
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Take a gander at this thread:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=1646.msg69756#msg69756 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=1646.msg69756#msg69756)
It only seems to be available to used books sources.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. Going to check out the old glorie's, but am glad to hear that the Redoubt are decently sized. This is going to be a fun project. The mounts are halfway ready (crown secret) and the mounted Sikh's are going to look great.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. Going to check out the old glorie's, but am glad to hear that the Redoubt are decently sized. This is going to be a fun project. The mounts are halfway ready (crown secret) and the mounted Sikh's are going to look great.
The OG figures come with the saddle attached, the Redoubt ones do not. Hope that helps.
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Anyone know of a 'definitive' guide to NW Frontier troop uniforms?
Also like the ones Capt. Blood showed us a few moons ago.
These ones!
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x69/pantomaniac/NWfrontierboard7.jpg)
Foundry, same as Paul E's.
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Nicest late victorian Indian cavalry on the market IMO are the Castaway Arts figures. They also do Sikh infantry so, with a little trimming of equipment, you can have dismounted versions.
http://www.castawayarts.com.au/index.php
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Nicest late victorian Indian cavalry on the market IMO are the Castaway Arts figures. They also do Sikh infantry so, with a little trimming of equipment, you can have dismounted versions.
http://www.castawayarts.com.au/index.php
I think you're right. They are beautiful. Thanks! Still have some thinking to do.
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I knew I had a book on the period!
'The Frontier Ablaze - The North-West Frontier Rising 1897-98' by Michael Barthorp 1996 Windrow & Greene
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Anyone know of a 'definitive' guide to NW Frontier troop uniforms?
A bit late [as usual :-[ ] but this has some good pics:
"The Indian Army Of The Empress, 1861-1901" by Alan Harfield, ISBN 0-946771-03-0
Mostly black and white photos and contemporary sketches, but there are 8 pages of colour prints by Simkin, Payne, Sumner etc. Oh, three of the colour prints you've shown are in there :( There are several more that would be of use, I'm sure.
There is also a lot of OOB and campaign background and it's the sort of book that would be great to find cheap eg:
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=0946771030&sortby=3&sts=t&x=52&y=9
As ever, though, Plynkes has nailed it with the Mollo book ;)
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Nicest late victorian Indian cavalry on the market IMO are the Castaway Arts figures. They also do Sikh infantry so, with a little trimming of equipment, you can have dismounted versions.
http://www.castawayarts.com.au/index.php
How are they scaled compared with others?
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Hmmm.
Having looked at them several times now, I think the standard of the Castaway Arts figures is a bit variable.
The heads and faces on their Indian Army and Pathans are all strikingly good.
But whilst the poses and anatomy of some figures are also excellent, others have weirdly long arms, or are in strangely unnatural poses...
I suppose I've been spoiled by sculptors like Copplestone and the Perrys, who manage to turn out a gem - or at least a fairly convincing looking miniature person - almost every time.
Some sculptors don't seem able to hit quite that consistency in every sculpt.
But as ever, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are probably some figures I like that other people think are hideous... ;)
Think I'd pick and choose carefully from this range.
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Major-General Gurcharn Singh Sandhu's "The Indian Cavalry" is good for tracing regimental lineages over time, and has some useful breakdowns of the "martial races" comprising each regiment (by squadron) at various points in time.
The plates in Lieutenant-General Sir George MacMunn's "The Armies of India" are still my favorite uniform references.
Allen
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Having looked at them several times now, I think the standard of the Castaway Arts figures is a bit variable.
The heads and faces on their Indian Army and Pathans are all strikingly good.
But whilst the poses and anatomy of some figures are also excellent, others have weirdly long arms, or are in strangely unnatural poses...
Yes, I'll admit I'm not as struck by some of their older ranges but the new Bitish Colonials and the Indian Army stuff are all cracking stuff and Gerry is a real gent to deal with. More slender but will mix well with Foundry OG etc size wise.