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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Phil Robinson on April 13, 2015, 08:10:01 PM

Title: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Phil Robinson on April 13, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
Coming the end of the year,

http://merseybooks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/dragon-rampant-fantasy-wargaming-lion.html
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Timbor on April 14, 2015, 03:24:06 AM
That should be pretty cool!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: beefcake on April 14, 2015, 03:30:01 AM
Haven't played lion rampant but heard good things. I'm interested.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Mars Miniatures on April 14, 2015, 05:14:17 AM
Wow, I cant wait for December.  Im really excited for this.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Dalcor on April 14, 2015, 06:15:13 AM
Actualy our club visited a biggest Czech non-warhammer wargaming event this weekend (CSE) and we played for the first time Lion Rampant with Warhammer minis, which make a lot of scowls from visitors and we have to explain that this is not WHFB.

We enjoyed Lion Rampant very much, we are definetely going to purchase some historical mini (unfortunately it is hard to get plastic models for Ottokarus II Premyslid and his armies, so I will stay with hospitallers).

With Dragon Rampant we will have option how to air out our fantasy armies and heroes. And I will start to colled army of the Inquisition from Dragon Age game for Dragon Rampant ;-)
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Matakakea on April 14, 2015, 04:21:14 PM
Another book to add to the list. I pity the family members who will have to move my library when I pop my clogs  :D
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Colonel Tubby on April 15, 2015, 06:43:16 PM
That should be pretty cool!

Too right! Can't wait!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: danmer on April 18, 2015, 09:56:50 PM
Popped some design goals up today:

http://merseybooks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/dragon-rampant-design-goals.html

I always make a list, to help me stay on track...
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Dr. The Viking on April 19, 2015, 05:35:36 AM
That's nice. And with undead!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Vermis on April 19, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
Quote
allow players breathing space to create their own worlds rather than forcing them to be tied to a line of miniatures.

I love you.

Now I've got to go and, er, see how Lion Rampant actually plays... :?
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: olyreed on April 22, 2015, 03:45:59 PM
I better start buying more LotR stuff!! This looks very interesting
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: joroas on April 22, 2015, 06:14:19 PM
Yes, I am also thinking that I can shed all of my LOTR books and replace them with one easy parchment, as they say! :D
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Vermis on April 23, 2015, 12:20:51 AM
I was thinking the same. I have a few uruk-hai and dwarfs scraped together, but it might be a while before I have enough ready for a proper mass battle, if ever. Something a bit smaller would do very nicely.

Then there's Warhammer, ASoIaF, etc. etc. Lots o' potential.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Dalcor on April 24, 2015, 03:06:52 PM
Popped some design goals up today:

http://merseybooks.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/dragon-rampant-design-goals.html

I always make a list, to help me stay on track...
It has to be on shelves as fast as possible. There are so many settings and games, novels scenes which I would like to re-play on the table.Thanks for the update. I am really looking forward to try this one!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Golgotha on April 24, 2015, 03:50:48 PM
Could have potential look forward to it.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Barry on July 27, 2015, 03:24:11 PM
Can we hear more about possible troop categories? Flying creatures like dragons, griffons and harpies? Large creatures like Atlantean war elephants or frost giants? Heroes in Chariots? How expansive will the army construction be?

Just got into Lion Rampant - having a great time, my fellow gamers do about a 50/50 split between historicals and fantasy so Dragon Rampant should be a natural rule set for us!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Smith on July 27, 2015, 03:38:27 PM
Flyers? Yes.
Large creatures? Yes.
Chariots? Yes.

Army construction is wide open, and Dan offers a range of options for finding the right unit type for what you want.

Like Lion Rampant, it uses baseline unit types (e.g. Elite Riders, Heavy Riders, Light Riders), but has a load of unit upgrades and fantastical elements that can applied for variety or finessing. There's also the 'Reduced' and 'Single' model units that combine all the oomph of a whole unit into fewer models - perfect for heroes and monsters.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Barry on July 27, 2015, 04:04:38 PM
that is just what I was hoping. thanks
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Romark on July 27, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
This all sounds good,roll on Xmas  :)
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Lawful Evil on July 28, 2015, 02:47:38 AM
There's also the 'Reduced' and 'Single' model units that combine all the oomph of a whole unit into fewer models - perfect for heroes and monsters.

Very interesting. I'm finding I need to do something similar in KoW, but it's tricky with preset base sizes.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: guitarheroandy on July 29, 2015, 08:59:10 PM
i have played a couple of games. it's brilliant and has reawakened my interest in Fantasy gaming. Can't wait til the official release...
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: sundayhero on July 29, 2015, 09:01:07 PM
I bought (very recently) Lion Rampant, and I really like what I'm currently reading. I can't wait to see the fantasy version of it !
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Nord on July 30, 2015, 12:16:36 PM
It does sound interesting. I wonder if it will cover the slightly esoteric areas of psychology (fear, terror, etc) and battle fatigue (morale, panic, etc). These are the things that I find missing from most of these skirmish games.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Smith on July 30, 2015, 02:43:19 PM
Yep - courage, fear, hatred. All that good stuff.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Argonor on July 30, 2015, 05:46:09 PM
I might be interested...  ::)
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Hobgoblin on July 30, 2015, 06:03:01 PM
I'm really looking forward to this. We've been fighting fantasy battles with Lion Rampant, and it's a splendid ruleset: intuitive, tactical and, most importantly of all, fun. I also very much like the way that units of six or twelve miniatures are just the right size to use for SBH warbands.

In particular, the interaction of troops and terrain is really well handled in Lion Rampant. So you can use your bidowers to lure heavy cavalry into woods where they will be at a huge disadvantage, or rely on your ferocious troops (foot men-at-arms and "fierce foot") to cut foes to pieces on rough ground.

Apparently, three or four is a good number for a unit of trolls in Dragon Rampant, so I'm looking forward to unleashing these chaps:
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: 3 fingers on July 30, 2015, 07:38:44 PM
I love you.

Now I've got to go and, er, see how Lion Rampant actually plays... :?
An me ,just what I'm looking for swap dragon for dinosaur and I can play medieval soldiers and dinosaurs and other gribblies.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Lowtardog on July 30, 2015, 07:45:02 PM
played first game last week with 3 others picked up quickly and the rules are great I now have a set for fantasy gaming which is fast and fun and ticks all the boxes
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Hobgoblin on July 30, 2015, 07:59:55 PM
It occurs to me that Lion/Dragon Rampant would work perfectly well for genuinely massed battles. If you wanted to use masses and masses of figures, you could use "stands" instead of individuals (or just use a multiple - i.e. one casualty is three or five or ten or whatever).

A great aspect of the rules is the complete lack of basing conventions. We've mixed up a 25-year-old HOTT army with current SBH warbands, to good effect.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Nord on July 30, 2015, 10:07:40 PM
That depends on how you want your mass battles to play. There's no facing in LR, no flanks, rear, etc. Usually in mass battle games there's an element of trying to get these things. There's also no rules for multiple combat, so you would not be able to orchestrate that kind of thing either. It is more warband style in my eyes.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Hobgoblin on July 30, 2015, 11:35:28 PM
That depends on how you want your mass battles to play. There's no facing in LR, no flanks, rear, etc. Usually in mass battle games there's an element of trying to get these things. There's also no rules for multiple combat, so you would not be able to orchestrate that kind of thing either. It is more warband style in my eyes.

That's all true. I think, though, that the abstraction of LR/DR combat (i.e. its reduction to "clashes") is preferable to the Warhammer style in which five or ten or twenty men wheel and otherwise move in strict formation.

I think in fantasy games in particular, a looser approach to combat (think "hordes"!) can work quite well. And while there are no rules for multiple combat, the effect can be created by having a unit to the rear of a retreating one, or ready to charge into the flank of a battered one.

As a comparison, Hordes of the Things has plenty of focus on the importance of flanking and the like. It's usually played with fewer figures per side than LR/DR (around 36, as I recall - I may be wrong!). While I remember enjoying it (it's been a while!), I certainly prefer LR/DR. And I'm not convinced that seeing an LR unit as 120 men rather than 12 makes the game any worse.

A thought experiment: could you play a good simulation of the Battle of the Five Armies from The Hobbit with DR (counting one man as lots)? I think you could.

On the orcish side, you'd have the bodyguard of Bolg ("huge goblins with scimitars of steel" = foot men-at-arms, 6 points),  two units of wolves and wolfriders (mounted yeomen, for 8 points), three units of smaller orcs (serfs, for 3 points), a unit of larger orcs (foot yeomen with mixed weapons, for 5 points, and a unit of bats (bidowers, perhaps, for 2 points).

Then on the other side, you'd have Beorn (foot men-at-arms in one for 6 points), Dain's dwarves (expert foot sergeants for 5 points), Thranduil's Elves (expert archers, 5 points), the Men of Dale (foot sergeants for 4 points) and Thorin's company (fierce foot at full strength but with just a handful models for 4 points; the "fierce foot" designation is to simulate their small number but heroic ferocity).

Would that give you a decent battle that might play out something like the book? I think it might.

Of course, this all accords with what you say about how you want your battles to play out!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Mick_in_Switzerland on July 31, 2015, 06:27:58 AM
Dear Hobgoblin,

I like your lists for battle of the Five Armies - I will try that.

Dear Nord

If you go onto the Lion Rampant Forum, here is a thread which discusses flank and rear attacks.

http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670 (http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670)

Regards

Mick
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Hobgoblin on July 31, 2015, 08:24:08 AM
Dear Hobgoblin,

I like your lists for battle of the Five Armies - I will try that.

Thanks, Mick. I think a couple of refinements would be that Beorn shouldn't arrive until a 6 is rolled on a dice at the end of a turn, or until the sixth turn - whichever happens first; and that Thorin and company should be within the mountain until the "good" player decides to open the gates, at which point the unit enters the table and the wild-charge rule applies.

It might make sense to add some extra units to each side too, for a bigger game.

Dear Nord

If you go onto the Lion Rampant Forum, here is a thread which discusses flank and rear attacks.

http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670 (http://duxrampant.yuku.com/topic/6/Flank-and-rear-attacks#.VbsZZGf7670)

Regards

Mick

That's an interesting link - thanks!
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Mick_in_Switzerland on July 31, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
"It might make sense to add some extra units to each side too, for a bigger game. "

No problem, I have about 550 official GW LOTR figures painted ;D
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: danmer on August 04, 2015, 10:31:25 AM
As all units are tracked with Strength Points, really there for Reduced and Single Model Units, there's no reason why you reverse the theory and play games with very large units (tracking their 6 or 12 SPs as you play). Maybe you'd want to increase ranges and movement, but other than that, the rules will work fine.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Hobgoblin on August 04, 2015, 11:02:29 AM
As all units are tracked with Strength Points, really there for Reduced and Single Model Units, there's no reason why you reverse the theory and play games with very large units (tracking their 6 or 12 SPs as you play). Maybe you'd want to increase ranges and movement, but other than that, the rules will work fine.

Hi Dan. Are courage tests affected by depleted strength points or only by figures removed? We've been playing the latter (which makes trolls and ogres and things more powerful - we've given each player a limited number of such units), but I can see it would be equally valid the other way: bashed and bruised trolls might be less eager for a fight even if none of them are actually dead.
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Schrumpfkopf on August 04, 2015, 11:18:06 AM
This is a set of rules that I am really looking forward too. :--)
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: Manchu on August 04, 2015, 03:52:22 PM
Here's the real cover ...

http://merseybooks.blogspot.com/2015/08/pssst-wanna-see-real-dragon-rampant.html
Title: Re: Dragon Rampant!
Post by: danmer on August 04, 2015, 07:07:50 PM
Hi Dan. Are courage tests affected by depleted strength points or only by figures removed? We've been playing the latter (which makes trolls and ogres and things more powerful - we've given each player a limited number of such units), but I can see it would be equally valid the other way: bashed and bruised trolls might be less eager for a fight even if none of them are actually dead.

Strength Points. You know me and simplicity, I'd get myself confused if I wrote anything too complex. Theoretically, there's no real need to remove models so long as you track SPs... But where's the fun in that?